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  DO CHRISTIANS SUFFER？
  by Max Hougham
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Summary: This sermon delves into the topic of suffering, emphasizing the
need to arm ourselves with the mindset of Christ who suffered for us,
the inevitability of persecution for believers, and the importance of
counting the cost of following Jesus. It explores the idea that
suffering can bring glory to God and challenges the notion that God
always spares His people from suffering, highlighting the need for
perseverance and faith amidst trials.

Topics: "Suffering for Christ", "Perseverance in Trials"
Scripture References: 1 Peter 4:1, John 15:20, Matthew 16:24

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DESCRIPTION
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This sermon delves into the topic of suffering, emphasizing the need to
arm ourselves with the mindset of Christ who suffered for us, the
inevitability of persecution for believers, and the importance of
counting the cost of following Jesus. It explores the idea that
suffering can bring glory to God and challenges the notion that God
always spares His people from suffering, highlighting the need for
perseverance and faith amidst trials.

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CONTENT
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Good morning. I just want to greet you all in Jesus' name. I'm really
thankful to be here.

It's just been a long time since we missed last Sunday. I really
appreciated the opening, Brother Leroy. I feel like we've been on the
receiving end of that action verb of love now here the last week or so.

It's very humbling, a very big blessing, and necessary for the people of
God. I just wanted to share this morning on a topic I've been thinking
about now for some time, and it's just come into sharper focus as of
late. Oh, maybe even a year ago, Brother Harvey talked about it in an
opening.

Just wanted to talk more about it, and as I was sitting here this
morning thinking about it, I just kind of feel... I think when I started
studying for it, I thought maybe it would be pretty short, and then it
kind of got longer. Sometimes I feel like some of these topics are
pretty weighty, and it's almost like, especially when it comes time to
actually do it and to share, it feels almost like I'm a boy in a hay
barn playing with a book of matches. If you see that this morning in
anything that I say, just call me out of the barn and show me how
matches are supposed to be used.

Hopefully that makes sense. I don't know. A lot of this stuff is a big
deal, and I wouldn't want to get it wrong.

Why don't we all stand and pray? Father, thank you so much for giving us
the ability to meet here this morning and to fill this place with music
of worship to you. Father, let our hearts be tuned right, and God,
please give me the ability to speak this morning and not be overcome by
nerves, or just to be able, Father, to communicate clearly the things
that are on my heart, and let us all be open, Father, for correction and
reproof and to edify each other. God, please bless our time together.

Help us to live pleasing to you. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen.

I wanted to read an account in Luke chapter 4, starting at the beginning
of Luke 4 to verse 13, right after Jesus was baptized. And Jesus, being
full of the Holy Ghost, returned from Jordan and was led by the Spirit
into the wilderness, being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those
days he did eat nothing, and when they were ended, he afterward
hungered.

And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this
stone, that it may be made bread. And Jesus answered him, saying, It is
written that man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of
God. And the devil, taking him up into a high mountain, showed unto him
all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee in the
glory of them, for that is delivered unto me, and to whomsoever I will I
give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. And
Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan, for it is
written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou
serve.

And he brought him up to Jerusalem and set him on a pinnacle of the
temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down
from hence, for it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee
to keep thee. And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any
time thou dash thy foot against a stone. And Jesus answering said unto
him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him
for a season, or for a more opportune time, I think is how it's put some
places. There's a lot in this passage. There's a lot that could be said
about it.

I had written down that two out of the three attempt, two out of the
three temptations here put forth by Satan are trying to tempt Jesus to
use his power for deliverance from the physical harm or hardship. But,
and he didn't do it. But really, I guess, as I read this again, I almost
feel like it's all three of the instances in some way.

Just one of the instances doesn't use Jesus' power, it would use the
power of Satan to deliver kingdoms to Jesus himself. You look at each
example here. I mean, we think about, so Jesus was fasting for 40 days
and 40 nights.

And Jesus offers him deliverance from the suffering of hunger. Just use
some of your power to turn these stones into bread. Then, when he shows
him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time from a high
mountain place, those are going to be long to Christ.

But at the time, at the present, they were kingdoms of the world and
therefore in Satan's dominion, and he offered him relief from the
suffering that he should have gone through or that he was going to go
through, if only he would bow down and worship him. So there was a
deliverance there from the suffering that was at hand for Jesus. And
then lastly, you know, he tempts Jesus to use his power to escape
physical harm by falling down.

And I've been thinking about how Satan framed those things and how he
tempted Jesus. You know, there was a temptation, there was something in
it that was appealing to Jesus' flesh, otherwise it wouldn't have been
temptation. He had to wrestle with it, he had to struggle.

I thought, you know, that that wasn't just a no-brainer for him. There
was a human element to Jesus, and so he wrestled with this temptation,
he wrestled with these offers of deliverance from suffering, and he
prevailed. And I've been thinking a lot about that lately, about
suffering.

With this pandemic and living here in a rural part of the country, it's
just really hard to relate to those that are hardest hit by this thing,
this pandemic, this COVID-19. Opinions about this are about as varied as
the different people that we meet. There's a lot.

And one thought that I've come across, I guess as I've heard others,
especially like in the realm of Christianity, talking about these things
is an idea that I've heard at other times too, and it's the thought that
true Christians will be spared hardship or suffering. And, you know,
just believing that and hanging on to the idea that God will protect his
people. And hearing that kind of really made me reflect a lot on, well,
what is a Christian's role in suffering anyway? I mean, there seems to
be a widely held belief, at least in Western Christianity, that God
always relieves us or spares us of suffering, and he restores all of
life's pleasantries as they once were, as we remember them, or as we
hope they would be.

Is that accurate? Is that a right understanding? I'm not sure where all
of that comes from. I guess I think maybe one, you know, Brother Joel
has said that sometimes when we receive the light of the gospel and like
a lot of the wrongs of society and the wrongs of the world are brought
to our attention, it's like you wake up in Disneyland, and you decide
you don't want to be there. And so you can make a decision.

You can figure out how to survive in Disneyland, or you can leave. You
can leave and go to somewhere that's not Disneyland. And Disneyland
would be like a reference when Joel uses it.

I think what he means is that this is a spoiled country. There's just
every flavor of excess and wealth and overindulgence available here. I
mean, I think somebody told me a while ago that like a family of four,
for a week's vacation in Disney World could spend $10,000 like for a
week's vacation.

It just blows me away. And yet, like in some ways, that's kind of our
reality living here in the United States is that there's just this
overabundance. So I think some of these ideas about escaping suffering
or that like somehow we ought to be spared from any kind of suffering
come from this innate attitude that's embedded in us from living in a
country with a lot of material wealth.

I've heard this idea expressed at different times throughout my
Christian journey about God's people being spared from any kind of
hardship. I mean, I've heard it from people that have a copy of Martyr's
Mirror or Fox's Book of Martyrs on their bookshelf. And something just
seems a little bit off.

And so I kind of wanted to dive into that this morning. This passage on
Christ's temptation came to my mind. Satan preyed on Jesus's weakness in
his flesh by offering deliverance from his physical hardship.

And I believe that there can be a sinister twisting of God's truth that
leads people to believe that we'll always be delivered or spared. And so
one question I have this morning is like, well, assuming that that's not
the case, what promises do we have concerning suffering? I want to turn
to another passage in Luke chapter 21. I'm a little scripture heavy this
morning, so I'll try to do a good job and get through it all.

Luke chapter 21 verses 5 to 28. Let's see what Jesus has to say. This
is, I wrote down, this is suffering according to Jesus.

Starting in verse 5. And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned
with goodly stones and gifts, he said, as for these things which ye
behold, the days will come in the which there shall not be left one
stone upon another that shall not be thrown down. And they asked him,
saying, Master, but when shall these things be? And what sign will there
be when these things shall come to pass? And he said, take heed that ye
be not deceived, for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ.
And the time draweth near.

Go ye not therefore after them, but when ye shall hear of wars and
commotions, be not terrified. For these things must first come to pass,
but the end is not by and by. Then said he unto them, nation shall rise
nation and kingdom against kingdom, and great earthquakes shall be in
diverse places and famines and pestilences and fearful sites.

And great signs shall there be from heaven. But before all these, they
shall lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the
synagogues and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for
my name's sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

Settle it therefore in your hearts not to meditate before what you shall
answer. For I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your
adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. And ye shall be
betrayed both by parents and brethren and kinsfolks and friends.

And some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be
hated of all men for my name's sake. But there shall not a hair of your
head perish, for in your patience possess ye your souls.

And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that
the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judea flee to
the mountains, and let them which are in the midst of it depart out, and
let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the
days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in
those days. For there shall be great distress in the land and wrath upon
this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword and shall be
led away captive into all nations.

And Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles until the time of
the Gentiles be fulfilled. There's a lot about suffering in this
passage. Jesus tells us that we will stand before men to be condemned
for the purpose of testimony.

He tells us that he will give us wisdom that cannot be refuted. He tells
us that we will be hated for Jesus' namesake. He says that our patience
will be tested, and therein lies your soul.

He says that we will not be eternally harmed. He says that women and
babies will suffer. And he says that men who have this knowledge will
panic and be incapacitated by fear, knowing what is coming.

I want to hear some more of what Jesus had to say in chapter 9, verses
21 to 26. I'm going to actually start in verse 20. He said unto them,
But whom say you that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God.

And he straightly charged them and commanded them to tell no man that
thing, saying, The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected of
the elders and chief priests and scribes and be slain and be raised the
third day. And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let
him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For
whosoever will save his life shall lose it, but whosoever will lose his
life for my sake, the same shall save it.

For what is a man advantaged if he gain the whole world and lose himself
or be cast away? For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words,
of him shall the Son of Man be ashamed when he shall come in his own
glory and in his father's and of the holy angels. I picked this verse or
this passage. I mean, this is in a few of the gospels.

And I picked the one in Luke here because he said that we ought to daily
take up our cross and follow him. So there is this element of daily
self-denial and suffering. I want to turn to Jesus' charge to his 12
when he was getting ready to send his 12 out on their missionary
journey.

He had some advice for them in Matthew chapter 10, which is actually
very similar to things that he says about these latter days. Matthew
chapter 10 verses 16 to 42. That's kind of a long one.

Here's what he tells his 12 as he's getting ready to send them out to go
preaching the gospel in the different cities. Behold, I send you forth
as sheep in the midst of wolves. Be therefore wise as serpents and
harmless as doves, but beware of men, for they will deliver you up to
the councils and they will scourge you in their synagogues.

And you shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a
testimony against them and the Gentiles. But when they deliver you up,
take no thought how or what you shall speak, for it shall be given you
in that same hour what you shall speak. For it is not you that speak,
but the spirit of your father, which speaketh in you.

And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death and the father,
the child and the children shall rise up against their parents and cause
them to be put to death. And you shall be hated of all men for my name's
sake. But he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another. For
verily I say unto you, ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel
till the son of man become. The disciple is not above his master, nor
the servant above his Lord.

It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master and the servant
as his Lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how
much more shall they call them of his household? Fear them not
therefore, for there is nothing covered that shall not be revealed and
hid that shall not be known. What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye
in the light.

And what you hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. And
fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul,
but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? And one of them shall not fall
on the ground without your father.

But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore, ye
are of more value than many sparrows. Whosoever therefore shall confess
me before men, him will I confess also before my Father, which is in
heaven.

But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my
Father, which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to send peace on
earth. I came not to send peace, but a sword.

For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-
in-law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that
loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me.

And he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And
he that taketh not his cross and followeth after me is not worthy of me.
He that findeth his life shall lose it, and he that loseth his life for
my sake shall find it.

He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth
him that sent me. He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet
shall receive a prophet's reward, and he that receiveth a righteous man
in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of
cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he
shall in no wise lose his reward.

I just kind of see a pattern. I see these ideas echoed, even though
these are the instructions to the twelve. These are ideas that are
echoed throughout all of Jesus' teachings.

In Luke 21, when Jesus talks about that temple, he talks about a lot of
suffering happening the world over. And I believe that this suffering is
not something that's exclusive to unbelievers. I think the people who
are zealous for the kingdom of God will suffer right alongside the
people of this world that are in straits, whether it's a pandemic or a
drought or a famine or a pestilence.

I don't see anywhere where we're actually spared from those things. But
also, beyond the troubles that are mentioned in Luke 21, when Jesus
talks about these latter days, we're also going to suffer above and
beyond at the hands of men. It's something that's nearly a guarantee.

And it's just notable that we can expect more of the same treatment our
Master received, especially if we bear his message. There are so many
passages that talk to this, and I'm trying to keep it concise, but one I
think of for sure is in when he says all those who will live godly will
suffer persecution. It's just nearly a guarantee.

And a noteworthy passage, I guess maybe I could just read part of it. I
don't want time to run away, but in Romans 8, everybody's familiar with
it, but it's just a short little passage. I'm just going to skim through
it.

Paul says to the church in Rome, Who shall lay anything to the charge of
God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is
Christ that died, yea, rather, that is risen again. Who is even at the
right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us? Who shall
separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or
persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is
written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long.

We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we
are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded
that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor
powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth,
nor any other creature shall be able to separate us from the love of
God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So like, why all the suffering? This is like a dismal picture. I mean,
it's kind of discouraging. What's the purpose? Why? Why all the
suffering? I mean, this is really, when you think about like a lot of
messages in mainstream Christianity, the focus is really, and there's an
element to this that's true, but again, it's like somehow, somehow the
proper balance has been disrupted and corrupted, and the whole emphasis
is on an improved life by switching to an allegiance in Jesus.

And it's a completely different message. It's a completely different way
to look at things, and maybe it helps a little bit to know why. And in
part, I think we find part of the answer in 1 Peter chapter 2. 1 Peter
chapter 2, 11 to 25.

Dearly beloved, Peter says, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims,
abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul. Having your
conversation honest among the Gentiles, that whereas they speak evil
against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works, which they shall
behold, glorify God in the day of visitation. I would hope that some of
that means that there would be some repentance.

I would hope that some people would be won by godly behavior, by
righteousness, especially when you're being slandered. But that's not
what it says here. It says that they will glorify God in the day of
visitation.

And I think this isn't an idea that's original with me, but I think some
of that, like, God will receive glory not just from people who have
persevered to the end, who have gained the crown of life, but he's also
going to receive glory from those who who lived a life in opposition to
God and confess him even through their punishing. He receives glory from
the sheep and from the goats, not just from one. In verse 13, he says,
Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether
it be to the king as supreme or unto governors, as unto them that are
sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of them
that do well.

For so is the will of God that with well-doing you may put to silence
the ignorance of foolish men as free and not using your liberty for a
cloak of maliciousness. But as the servants of God, honor all men, love
the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king. Servants, be subject to your
masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the
forward, for this is thankworthy.

If a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully,
suffering wrongfully, for what glory is it? If when you be buffeted for
your faults, you shall take it patiently. But if when you do well and
suffer for it, you take it patiently. This is acceptable with God.

For even here unto were ye called because Christ also suffered for us,
leaving us an example that ye should follow his steps. Who did no sin,
neither was guile found in his mouth. A righteous response amidst
unbelievers will bring glory to God when he comes again.

And righteous behavior amidst suffering also brings glory to God. So
part of the reason, part of the why, is the testimony that it brings to
the rest of the world. But like, it begs the question, what I want to
get into next is like, well, what about deliverance? I mean, this has
been pretty one-sided so far.

I've kind of had a heavy hand on the idea that God will deliver us from
our suffering and that actually we're called to suffer. So does God not
deliver his own, as Satan suggested to Jesus? And I'd say, sure he does.
Sure.

I mean, just think about some of the examples that we have, you know,
available to us without even like the testimony of those in the church,
just in the scriptures alone. Peter was miraculously delivered from
prison by the angel. Paul was spared suffering and death from a snake
bite.

Jesus's would-be murderers were frozen as they were about to throw him
headlong off of a cliff. He walked through their midst and escaped them.
And I mean, there are so many examples of that.

And even like in personal testimony, I think everybody has an example of
being spared something terrible. And so I'm not trying to take away from
that. I think that it's clear that God works in some of those ways.

But there's other kinds of deliverance too, that don't just come from
being spared something uncomfortable or unpleasant or worse. I think
about Joseph suffering, not just hours, not just days, not just weeks,
but for years as a slave and in prison. That was God's will.

That was Joseph's testimony is that it was God's will, and that it was
part of a plan bigger than Joseph to spare Jacob and all of Israel. I
think about Stephen, he delivered, he was filled with the Holy Ghost and
he delivered one of the most powerful sermons ever. And his deliverance
came through being stoned to death.

I just, well, I don't know. I guess I never really ceased to be blown
away by Paul and the things that happened to Paul. I mean, he's got some
in both lists.

He's got some in the list where like he was delivered from terrible
things and he didn't have to suffer. And then he's got these accounts of
horrible suffering. And I'm going to turn to, I always think I need to
do this with caution, but in 2 Corinthians 11, he kind of gives a little
rundown.

I think nobody can say it better than Paul himself, of all the things
that have happened to him, just a little list. And I think it's
important not to take this out of its context, which is that Paul is
telling people not to glory as men and not to glory in their feats and
their accomplishments and not to glory in suffering. In other words,
boast.

So it's important to say that he's putting these people, he's trying to
put these people in their right place by telling them not to be boastful
and not to be proud. It is not a list of bragging. I just feel like to
read this, it's important to put that in context.

I'm going to read chapter 11, verse 23 through chapter 12, verse 1. I'm
in the wrong chapter. Let's see. Are they ministers of Christ? I speak
as a fool.

I am more, in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons
more frequent, in deaths oft. Of the Jews, five times received I forty
stripes, save one. I think that might just about kill a man, you know,
to be lashed forty times, thirty-nine times.

Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned. Thrice I suffered
shipwreck. A night and a day I have been in the deep.

In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in
perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in
the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils
among false brethren, in weariness and painfulness, in watchings often,
in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness, beside
those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care
of all the churches. I don't know. Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who
is offended, and I burn not? For if I must needs glory, I will glory of
the things which concern mine infirmities.

I'll just stop there. I'm also blown away, I mean, any of these things
in here, like I have this thought, I mean, yeah, just about Paul, the
one where he was stoned outside of, where he was stoned outside of
Lystra, I think, and then he was dragged out of the, no, he was stoned
in Lystra, and then he was dragged out of the city and walked to Derby.
Like, they didn't just throw a few rocks to, you know, shake him up a
little bit.

Like, it was attempted murder, and maybe they were even successful. I
mean, maybe he was really killed, you know, but somehow, I mean, I just,
I always have this picture of like, okay, you know, like he's been
dragged out of the city, he's done, I guess it's time to take care of
him, and like, and he like, he gets up and like dusts himself off and
goes into the next city to preach some more. I just can't relate to
that.

It's just this, I mean, if I receive scorn of somebody for sharing a
truth of the scriptures, like, it hurts. Like, but he received the
ultimate scorn. They're like, not only do we not agree with what you're
saying, and we're gonna kill you for it.

And then he got up and like went to tell more people. I'm just blown
away by that. I was thinking about all of these things, and I guess
there's one thing in particular about Paul I just want to read because I
think it's relevant in the vision to, I think it was Ananias, Acts
chapter 9 verses 10 to 16.

Okay, so Paul is blind. He's still Saul at this point, and the Lord's
got a message for Ananias. And there was a certain disciple at Damascus
named Ananias, and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias.

And he said, behold, I am here, Lord. And the Lord said unto him, arise
and go into the street which is called straight, and inquire in the
house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus. For behold, he prayeth.

And he hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in and putting
his hand on him that he might receive his sight. Then Ananias answered,
Lord, I have heard many, I have heard by many of this man how much evil
he hath done to thy saints of Jerusalem. And here he hath authority from
the chief priests to bind all that call on the name.

But the Lord said unto him, go thy way, for he is a chosen vessel unto
me to bear my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of
Israel. For I will show him how great things he must suffer for my
name's sake. That was, these sufferings that I've been talking about
with Paul were a part of God's will for his ministry and for the way
that he was going to reach people.

And I've just in all of these examples, like I tried to think of one,
because like the scripture is a story, it's a story of people's
suffering and how they dealt with it and how they turned to God. And
there are just so many stories that you could touch or turn to, to try
to explain the subject of suffering. And the one that just really struck
me was one of Jesus himself.

And somebody who suffered right next to him in Luke 23 verses 26 to 49.
I'll just start reading. And as they led him away, they laid hold upon
one Simon and a Cyrenian coming out of the country and on him, they laid
the cross that he might bear it after Jesus.

And there followed him a great company of people and of women, which
also bewailed and lamented him. But Jesus turning unto them said,
daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves and for
your children. For behold, the days are coming in the which they shall
say, blessed are the barren and the wombs that never bear in the paps,
which never gave suck.

Then shall they begin to say to the mountains fall on us and to the
hills cover us for if they do these things in a green tree, what shall
be done in the dry. And there were also with, there were also two others
male factors led with him to be put to death. And when they were come to
the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him in the male
factors, one on the right hand and the other on the left.

Then said Jesus, father, forgive them for they know not what they do.
And they parted his raiment and cast lots. And the people stood
beholding.

And the rulers also with them derided him saying he saved others. Let
him save himself. If he be Christ, the chosen of God.

And the soldiers also mocked him coming to him and offering him vinegar
and saying, if thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself. And a
superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek and Latin
and Hebrew. This is the king of the Jews.

And one of the male factors, which were hanged, railed on him saying, if
thou be Christ, save thyself and us. But the other answering rebuked him
saying, dost not thou fear God seeing thou art in the same condemnation
and we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds. But
this man has done nothing amiss.

And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy
kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, verily, I say unto thee today, shalt
thou be with me in paradise. And it was about the sixth hour and there
was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.

And the sun was darkened and the veil of the temple was rent in the
midst. And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into
thy hands, I commend my spirit. And having said thus, he gave up the
ghost.

It's an incredible story. Jesus told the women who were following after
him and wailing that there would be suffering to come. And as he was, I
just think like, if we have the premise that God is always going to
deliver us from suffering, if we just call on his name, that his will is
always to save us from something, then we would have to believe that
when this man turned to Jesus and said, remember me when you come into
your kingdom, that he would have walked off the cross and been spared
anything.

I don't know. I want to hear your thoughts too on this. But like when
Jesus turned to him and he says, verily, I say unto you today, you will
be with me in paradise.

Like there's no offer there from the trial at hand of deliverance.
Deliverance, even though Jesus doesn't say this or say it this way, he
tells the man where they're going to meet again. But the deliverance is
going to come through suffering and through death.

And then they die together. It took that suffering of Jesus to be able
to say to that man that together they'd be in paradise that day. Because
had he not suffered, he wouldn't have said that to the man.

I wanted to shift to something before I go into, because I think it's
important. Like this all has a point, and there's something that we do
have, and it's in this story that we just read. I read an article this
last week, and I found it kind of disturbing.

It's from 2019, and it's about black vultures. There's a vulture.
They're the turkey vultures, which are big, and they're pretty harmless.

They're docile. They're good for the ecosystem. Black vultures are good
too.

They're not as big. They're about five pounds, and their wingspan is
about five feet. They've been pressing up higher into the U.S. than they
used to be.

They're now into southern Indiana. They used to range from South America
up to the southern states, and now they're up into Indiana today. What's
unique about the black vulture is that they're more aggressive.

I learned something too in reading about this, and that's that vultures
know where carcasses are, even above a tree canopy, because they have a
very keen sense of smell, and they can smell when an animal has died. It
gives off a kind of a gas that they're designed to pick up on, and so
these black vultures... Turkey vultures are more solitary animals, and
they always are looking for something that's dead. However, a black
vulture kind of relies on other vultures to smell for them, because they
don't have that keen sense of smell that a turkey vulture has, or like a
king vulture.

So sometimes they can be seen following those. Rather than being
solitary, a black vulture will actually feed in flocks. Sometimes I
think I've put some of the accounts I've read set up to 60 birds at a
time, and they will actually drive off other vultures.

But one thing about the black vulture is that if they get hungry,
they'll go after live meat. There's been a big problem among cattle
farmers in Kentucky and Indiana, especially where this story came from
was Indiana, and they'll target animals that are vulnerable. And I just
want you to hear, there's one farmer in here, and he explains how they
do it.

These birds are incredibly intelligent, these vultures are. And so
they've kind of got, like when they develop a taste for something that's
alive still, they're very strategic in how they bring down an animal.
Now remember, they're about five, it's about a five-pound bird.

Here's what this man says, I'm just going to read his account. Lawson
said he's noticed more vultures since 2009 when he thinks they started
nesting near Fox Hollow Farm. He plans his year around the predatory
habits of the vultures, which circle the skies and wait of anything dead
or vulnerable.

He remembers one eerie morning that he saw a flock of 60 vultures
perched on adjacent gates in one of his fields. He mainly worries about
them during calving season when they like to feast on easy marks. His
2019 calving season opened with him topping a hill and seeing six
vultures pecking a calf to death.

Here's what he says, they like to play with the newborns, he said.
They'll hop around and get the calf comfortable with them before they
peck out their eyes. Then they can't see, he said, so they take them
over.

The whole process from the playful taunt to the complete skinning
doesn't take long at all, he added. Depending on the size, it may only
take minutes. They're very efficient at what they do.

Lawson said Fox Hollow hasn't lost any full-grown cows to the vultures,
but the birds have taken down full-grown ewes while in labor when both
the mother and its baby are vulnerable. He remembers finding a ewe once
that had been in process of giving birth when she was attacked. A full-
grown ewe weighs between 160 and 180 pounds.

That's all. Uh, I just, I mean, I, that bothers me. That account is
like, it's uh, it bothers me, but I think like we get this idea about
the adversary, about Satan, that like he's only interested in, in the
spiritually dead and wreaking havoc among them, you know.

But, but it's not true, like he's, he's also got a taste for, for
something live and something fresh. And if, and if he sensed
vulnerability, he'll, he'll pounce on it. And I think that like, I mean,
I was especially thinking about this method where like, these vultures,
I think Satan operates a lot like them.

You know, they, they taunt an innocent newborn calf, get it comfortable
with them, and then they attack it, pecking out its eyes. And when it's
blind, that's when they really, that's when they really go after the
thing and bring it down. And, and, and sometimes I think like when we
have real dogmatic ideas, they can get us into uncomfortable corners.

Like saying that God always delivers us from trouble. Uh, it's not
necessarily consistent with the scriptures. Uh, sometimes deliverance
comes through other forms like time, perseverance, or even death.

And so if we are expecting deliverance from a problem, if we're
expecting, and I'm not saying it's wrong to pray for that, I think
that's good. I think we should. But if we're expecting like a
deliverance from any discomfort or any suffering at all, uh, and that's
not what happens, we can kind of be like those poor calves.

Um, you know, we feel injured or betrayed by God because we know that
like He's somebody who does bring deliverance and He does, He cares
about suffering. It says that He knows, like I read a while ago, that
like He, He takes note when even a sparrow falls to the ground. So
aren't we much more value than a sparrow? And if we, if it doesn't work
that way for us, if we have to suffer through something, we can, we can
miss God's will for us and even become blind to what the scripture is
actually saying about suffering.

Then we'll doubt God and become vulnerable to the adversary's attacks.
Uh, I mean, I just thought I'd share like, another one is, is like one
of these dogmatic ideas, not necessarily about suffering, but just to
help, help understand like what I'm trying to say is about faith. Like,
and I've, there's, I've seen this, you know, in some circles, this idea
and kind of the fruits of it.

Um, but I saw like a plaque that you can hang on the wall and it just
like, it just so like concisely and clearly puts forth this, this
dogmatic idea that I think gets people in a tight corner. And it's this,
faith isn't believing God can, it's knowing he already has. Um, and so
like one personal story, like when we had my first daughter, um, my wife
had this condition called placenta previa.

And, uh, and that means that, that the placenta is in the way the baby
can't, can't get out because of where the placenta attached to the
uterine wall. And so it's an automatic surgery. Um, but we were, I mean,
we were really disappointed.

We wanted to have a natural birth. And so we prayed hard. We prayed
fervently for this, for this placenta to move away, which is a
possibility.

And, um, the doctor humored us. I mean, even up to like, we had to
schedule the, the cesarean, the surgery to get, to get the baby. And,
and the day of we, we had the doctor bring an ultrasound machine into
the room, even though like scientifically and, and probably speaking,
you know, like by, by how things have progressed, it was impossible that
this placenta would be moved.

But we were, we were like, God's going to do this for us. He just is.
And so we, we had the ultrasound and there it was, it was in the way.

And we had to go ahead with surgery. And it just, it was like a season
of really struggling with like, well, what went wrong? What happened?
Like, why didn't, why didn't God do that for us? And, um, it's one of
those corners we can get backed into when, when we, when we just only
have like a partial truth or not, not the full truth about what
something is and how it should be. There was another, like, and I find
this even more grievous, but like a friend of ours had a parent who died
and, uh, and, and she would be in more like a, you know, it'd be like
more of a Pentecostal persuasion for lack of a better term.

And that's, and a lot of this idea comes out of that about faith, you
know, like faith is, isn't believing God can, but it's knowing that he
already has. And, and so like, that's where a lot of the claimant comes
from, you know, and name it and claim it circles. It's like, listen,
like we all agree that this person is healed.

They are healed. We're going to talk about it like they're healed. And
if they're not healed, it's because somebody here didn't believe.

And so this, this person carried with them for years, the idea that,
that their mother had died because they didn't have the faith to heal
the cancer. And I mean, how, how, how easily can the enemy, can the
adversary take something like that and just use it to, to really divide
you and create a wedge between you and, and God? And I think, and I
think that if we don't understand suffering properly, if we don't
understand that it's something that we will face, that we will have to
go through, and that that even can be the will of God, I think it can
put us in a similar predicament. It's a pretty bleak picture so far.

So I just wanted to move into something a little bit more positive and
talk about like, what, what do we have? What kind of a promise do we
have to cope with, with some of these grievous things? John 14 and
verses 15 to 27 says this, if you love me, keep my commandments, and I
will pray the father and he shall give you another comforter that he may
abide with you forever. Even the spirit of truth, whom the world cannot
receive because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him, but you know him
for he dwelleth with you and shall be in you. I will not leave you
comfortless.

I will come to you yet a little while and the world seeth me no more.
But ye see me because I live, ye shall live also. At that day, you shall
know that I am in my father and ye in me and I in you.

He that hath my commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me
and he that loveth me shall be loved of my father and I will love him
and will manifest myself to him. Judas said unto him, not Iscariot,
Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us and not unto the
world? Jesus answered and said unto him, if a man loved me, he will keep
my words and my father will love him and we will come unto him and make
our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings and the
word which he hear is not mine, but the father's which sent me.

These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the
comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the father will send in my
name, he shall teach you all things and bring all things to your
remembrance whatsoever I have said unto you. Peace I leave with you, my
peace I give unto you.

Not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be
troubled, neither let it be afraid. Jesus does promise us the comforter,
the Holy Ghost.

It's a promise we have. And like the story of the thief on the cross,
like Jesus went through that with that man in the physical, but his
promise is to go through all of these challenges with us in the
spiritual. Like his presence with us is a promise that we have to face
these challenges, to face these things.

Just a short one in the very end of Matthew, the Great Commission. And
Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in
heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing
them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost,
teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.

And lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. I
just want to wrap up my thoughts here.

I don't believe it's sound to say either that we will be spared all
suffering or that we will only suffer. I think God operates through his
saints both ways. One thing is sure, and that is that suffering will
come in one form or another.

And we will suffer alongside the rest of the world. So we have a
decision when those things happen to us. We can choose to be dismayed
and slip into discouragement and be a prime target for Satan, or we can
take it patiently and we can know that Jesus is with us and that he
takes note and special care of our suffering.

That will bring glory to God. And I just wanted to, part of Jesus's
message to the church at Laodicea to close. I guess his message to the
church at Laodicea.

Angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, these things saith the
amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of
God. I know thy works that thou art neither cold nor hot. I would thou
work cold or hot.

So then because thou art lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will spew
thee out of my mouth, because thou sayest, I am rich and increased with
goods and have need of nothing. And knowest not that thou art wretched
and miserable and poor and blind and naked. I counsel thee to buy of me
gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich and white raiment, that
thou mayest be clothed and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear
and anoint thine eyes with thyself that thou mayest see.

And as many as I love, I rebuke and chasten, be zealous therefore and
repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If any man hear my voice
and open the door, I will come into him and will sup with him and he
with me.

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as
I also overcame and am set down with my father in his throne. He that
hath an ear to hear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the
churches." I just find those last few verses especially encouraging.
That's not to push a message at all of experiential salvation or to
discredit somebody with an experience in salvation.

It's just an assurance of Jesus' willingness to commune with and sup
with anybody who chooses to follow him. I find that encouraging. God
bless you all and I'm really glad to be here.

Thank you brothers for sharing. Not sure that I have any great ideas or
I agree with the idea that we will suffer persecution. I also had the
thought that I'm thankful I don't have to choose what that is.

I guess we all often think how we might die. It's comforting to me to
know that I don't have to decide that. I think maybe suffering would be
the same, but there is something that we can do.

There's this one thought I had when Leroy was sharing. Combined with the
thought of the church that did all these good things, but they had lost
their first love. I have often pondered about that.

I don't know if I shared this thought. I think it's my own thought. But
it seems to me like that first love or that there's something in us
where we sell out to God.

We're going to go the whole way. We're going to forsake all. We're going
to allow Christ to teach us.

We're going to allow Him to lead us. When we make a decision that it's
based upon truth or it's based upon what Jesus taught us instead of our
feelings or things we've heard. We lay down our lives for that.

We forsake all for that. I just tend to think this is what happened to
that church. They did good things.

They did right things. They started off right. We know this in looking
at history of churches, how churches fall away.

Instead of making their decision based on the truth, they make their
decisions based on other things. I'm not sure what all examples. Maybe
just like the church where I came from, I grew up in.

Technically, they taught the right things, but I don't think they were
making decisions based on conviction of the heart. Their decisions were
not made anymore on what Jesus taught, but rather what they had been
doing. I'm not sure if it's an exact parallel, but I think there's
something similar about it.

This is something we should never lose, is to continue walking in that
way of basing our decisions on truth and righteousness and holiness of
Christ and walking in His will. Anyways, it's been encouraging. I thank
you and I'm thankful to be here.

May God bless us all. Yeah, I'm thankful to be here too. I guess you
kind of covered some of my thoughts there, Walter, and some of that was
based on a comment by Duane, just how that church just had all these
good things.

I just appreciate bringing that to the attention. They couldn't tolerate
evil people. They wouldn't put up with false people, things like that.

I wonder if some of that has to do with a commitment that surely all of
us have made, or surely these people have made, and they weren't quite
willing to continue with that. If we committed ourselves to follow the
Lord, and who here could say that we knew exactly what that all would
entail? All of us probably have faith things that we didn't know about
whenever we did this thing, this acceptance of the true faith and this
walk that we saw that we need to do, and we set out to do it. We say,
yes, Lord, we're going to do it, but then maybe years later something
comes up unexpectedly that we say, no, Lord.

It seems like maybe that would be the big offense to God or to His
kingdom that makes that scripture there that you read, Duane, so
weighty. I just want to take that to heart and ponder on it more. I
appreciate the message, Max.

I just really thought I could follow along. Maybe there was one certain
point I want to think about some more. Not anything you said, but just a
certain scripture about the ungodly glorifying God.

I haven't really looked at that much. There's just a lot about suffering
that I don't understand. I think maybe it's more and more clear, but I
think it's just bad if we go about life looking for just the fleshly
good things, and then if they don't quite happen, then that affects our
mood and our emotions and things.

That's just not good. Part of the fruit of the Spirit is to be tempered,
and it's just something you need to work on. That's all.

I just really appreciate being here. Greetings in the name of Jesus.
Thank you, Brother Leroy and Max, for your labors there.

I just wanted to read a couple verses here. 1 Peter 4, verse 1 says, For
as much then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves
likewise with the same mind. And also, in John 15, Jesus said, Remember
the word that I said unto you, the servant is not greater than his Lord.

If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they have
kept my saying, they'll keep yours also. So it shouldn't be any surprise
if we should expect certain persecution at some point in our lives.

Like you said, not all will be persecuted, but as the Church as a whole,
the Church of God will be persecuted at some points of time. But thank
you. Lord bless you.

Amen, Brother Max. There's so many good points that I had to comment on.
Like Leroy's, it's a great exhortation.

Like Brother Walter said, well, basically paraphrasing what Walter said
about counting the cost. It's something we count the cost. We should
before we accept that the Lord is our Lord.

Going back to why we're suffering, like Paul could have said when he won
2 Corinthians 11, Paul could have said, this thorn in the flesh,
whatever that is. I don't know what the thorn in the flesh is, but I
think it's eyesight. But the thorn in the flesh, why? His response was
obvious.

I mean, not obvious, but it's what we have. My grace is sufficient for
you, for Paul. And so his grace is sufficient.

I know in John's gospel, it says, say, these Greeks came up to Philip
and then they went up to, who's the other Greek? Philip and could have
been Daniel or Thomas. And so we like to see Jesus. And Jesus's response
was, uh, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground, it cannot be a
fruit.

So playing Jeopardy, or what's the question they must've said, or not
the question, but what was the, uh, brain teaser? What was the, what was
the, what was the, uh, suggestion that these Greeks wanted to ask Jesus
was probably, we, we can, we can, uh, we can protect you. We'll give you
refuge. We'll take you away with us.

You know, and we know they're about to destroy you and kill you, but
we'll, we get power, we get money, just get away from these, these Jews.
We'll, we'll give you, we'll give you help. And his response was no,
unless a grain of wheat falls in the ground.

And so, um, uh, yeah, the, the way up is down. Humility is, is, is, is,
is the way it's not tried. And, uh, one of the Psalms, I thought of
Psalm 73, it says, uh, the wicked, they have, they have no anti, uh,
anti prosperity claimant gospel.

The wicked, they have no, uh, pains in their death. They lived their
whole life, whatever, without ever having to go to the doctor and it's
rich in prosperity. But, but the Psalmist says in a moment how they are
utterly destroyed, they're cast down.

And so the suffering is, uh, the wicked of Psalm 73. I thought of that.
Justin Martyr said, we do have a debt to pay everyone.

We're all going to die. Every one of us is going to die. Why not die the
way helping the poor, uh, telling about the gospel and do those things.

I've been meeting Justin Martyr lately and that we all have a debt to
pay. Why don't we do it in following in the footsteps of the Lord. And
one point you could have, if you kept on going further, I know it would
be, uh, at the beginning, uh, the, uh, the Sermon on the Mount.

And Jesus said, blessed are the poor in spirit. And he builds up and he
said, blessed are those who persecute you and blessed are those who
revile you. And that's counting the cost.

And, uh, they don't want to hear that today. It's, I mean, it's sad. We
pray for them.

They want it. And you had all those excellent points. The Lord be
magnified.

Jesus knows our strength and weakness. Understand we are but friends.

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Video: https://sermonindex2.b-cdn.net/PYQJdoAwD9Y.mp4
Source: https://sermonindex.net/speakers/max-hougham/do-christians-suffer/
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