Tongues That speaks to angels !

Do people really pray in this type of tongue?and if so who are they speaking too?

another question......Where does it ever say in the bible, anywhere that either angels or the people talking to the angels spoke in another langauge other than one that is understood?The reason why i post this question is that some people try to say that there is 2 types of tongues one can speak in. One of them supposedly does not require interpretation (becasue it is the tongue that no one understands) and thats the one EVERYONE i have heard speak in. it goes kinda like this.....eg: har-ba-dahar-ba-dahar-ba-dahar-ba-dahar-ba-dahar-ba-dahar-ba-dahar-ba-dahar-ba-dahar-ba-dahar-ba-dahar-ba-dahar-ba-dahar-ba-daOReg: lalalalala-ra-badalalalalala-ra-badalalalalala-ra-badalalalalala-ra-badalalalalala-ra-badalalalalala-ra-badasay for example i did this in english saying the same sylables over and over eg: hap-pyhap-pyhap-pyhap-pyhap-pyhap-pyhap-pyhap-pyhap-pyhap-pydo i mean anything different the second or the 20th time? no. of course not.God bless.

[font=Arial]well looking at 1Co13:1 paul describes two tongues in which he can speak one of man the other of Angels......So I'm lead to believe that many here on this web site, believe this also. I might be wrong. but forgive me.So if this be the case could this a type of worship? [/font]

we don't speak to angels[font=Arial]Than who do you speak to in that tongue?..[/font]or what or who is being address in this tongue of an angel as described in 1co13:1?

I hate Ticks!![font=Arial]I hope things get better annie!!,I guess i wrong for thinking that people spoke in angel tongues to angels! I will pray for lyme to go away![/font]

Greetings dear saintsI think it's awful that this is the note that I am making a come back to SI on, but I feel moved to respond to this one. let me begin by saying, that I was largely brought up into the right frame of Christian thinking by a man whom I greatly admire, Mr. Leonard Ravenhill among many many others on the forum. Their sermons are deep, thought provoking and convicting. It was through these very sermons that I began to seek the baptism of the Spirit of God. I only then realized that I was not "filled with the Spirit", and that this event is one that I was lacking in my fellowship with God. A person is born again when they accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior, but the Baptism of the Spirit of God is a separate event and the filling of the Spirit is also a separate event.I always imagined that when I got filled with the spirit I would receive certain gifting, but I actually never wanted the gift of tongues. I had heard being degraded by so many preachers including I man I still greatly admire, Mr. Leonard Ravenhill. No if anyone asks me for a recommendation on sermons, Ravenhill is definitely among my top 5, and I still follow his teachings today. I have heard every one of His sermons on SI, and they are truly inspired and Spirit lead! I have to say however in a few areas I do not agree with Him, but it is not a major point of contention, after all I he is not my servant, who am I to judge him? I do know and understand now that, as the scriptures say, "we know in part" and no one is above that rule. Ravenhill once said, "The older I get, the more I find I don't know".Concerning the manifestations of the Spirit of God I would like to warn you not to be too hasty in making your judgments supposing that all of them are counterfeit. I have seen those who operate false gifts, and among them are two classes, those who are speaking out of themselves either because they are deluded or because they want to deceive other. It is sad that some are in bondage of delusion and for these we ought not to mock them or become angry with them, for our anger is usually not from God. God loves even the deluded people unconditionally, and their state makes him sorrowful. We ought rather to pray for these souls that the veil be taken from their hearts my dear brothers and sisters. God wants to work but He will only work through us and through our prayers.There is another group displaying false gifts, and those are they who are "demon possessed" or "demon lead" (I make a distinction between the tow but in essence it is the same thing). The reason I make the distinction is because some people are not aware that they are possessed and so I do not class these as "demon lead". Among these are Mormons. The ones I class as demon lead are among the Satanists, witches and wizards. These people exist dear saints and they are bent on doing evil against the children of God, and they are lead by demons.Having said this, I can understand the frustration that many of you feel towards the "tongues people", but let me say the gift of tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit of the Living God. We are sometimes dangerously close to blasphemy when we criticize the gift itself. The gift is essentially a very good gift; it is unfortunate that some people use it poorly, as the Church of the Corinthians, whom Paul exhorted to use the gift, but to use it orderly. I will say aging, the gift of tongues is a good gift of God, and those who use it diligently are edified and built up in spirit according to the scriptures and the experience of many saints (myself included). I do say that salvation is not in tongues and some have misapplied the scriptures saying that because everyone spoke in tongues on the day of Pentecost, then all must speak in tongues. This is not so.The thing which is profound about tongues is this, there is the gift of speaking in tongues, and then there are plain speaking in tongues. All can speak in tongues, but it is not all must, on the other hand not all have the gift of speaking in tongues. This is a hard topic but let us explain it scripturally beginning with this passage on spiritual gifts:“There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills" (1 Corinthians 12:4-11)Notice first that there are in verses 4-6; gifts, ministries and activities of the Godhead. The gifts refer to the working of the Holy Spirit. The ministries refer to the work of the Lord Jesus Christ in us, this is the 5-fold ministry (spoken of in Ephesians4:11). The activities or operations refer to how God chooses to operate a gift in one person’s life. For example in Acts 11 and 21 Agabus operated the gift of prophecy through drama, but others operate it verbally as those who first received Him in Ephesus in Acts 19.Look at the 9 gifts of the Spirit, and then look at some the development areas of the Christian life. Notice that we all aspire to wisdom, but not all are given a word of wisdom. A word of wisdom is divine revelation concerning a future event. We all aspire to knowledge, but not all are given a word of knowledge. A word of knowledge is divine revelation concerning something present or past which could not have otherwise been known by natural means. We all pray, "Increase our faith", but not all have a word of faith, as Elijah demonstrated when he said "it shall not rain but by my word" 1 Kings 17:1. We must all pray for the sick but not all have gifts of healings. We all believe God for a measure of divine intervention in our lives but not all operate the working of miracles. The gift of prophecy does not necessarily involve a revelation as in a word of wisdom and a word of knowledge but, as it is written (1 Cor14:3) prophecy is to comfort, exhort and edify. We must all seek to comfort, exhort and edify others, but not all have the gift of prophecy. We must all seek to grow in discernment (as in Hebrews5:14) but not all have discerning of spirits.Now here is where it gets interesting. In my early days, though I myself speak in tongues when I taught the word, I taught that not all can speak in tongues. I held vehemently to these some verses in 1 Corinthians 12 and this how I would teach and expound on them:"Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues?" do all interpret? (1 Corinthians 12:29:30). I would the proceed to show that the apostle here is asking a rhetorical question, so if I answer yes all speak in tongues, then I must answer yes all are apostles, prophets, teachers etc. So from this logic not all speak in tongues. Sill, having established this, I found that my experiences did not support my teachings. I am non-denominational, and for I period I was visiting some Pentecostal circles and I found that a very large proportion of them were speaking in genuine tongues. At the end of most services they would ask, "Who does not speak in tongues?" And about 30 people would come to the front, and every time only between 5 and 8 of them would leave still not speaking in tongues. This pattern was fairly consistent in all Pentecostal circles here in Zimbabwe. Though I do not agree with their methods their results were intriguing, and I could not understand this discrepancy for a long time. Why was the Spirit moving in this way I wondered? Finally the Lord began to show me something about tongues and the gift of tongues. By His own grace I operate the gift, and I slowly began to see differences in how others moved in this area. By the grace of God I can speak in many many tongues very fluently. Sometimes when I pray with someone I here a tongue which I have never heard before, and I can pick it up instantly. I thought this was everyone's experience, but apparently only the gift works in this way. Also I found that many people struggle to pronounce the utterance fluently and their vocabulary is limited thus the har-ba-dahar-ba-dahar-ba-dahar-ba-dahar-ba-dahar-ba-dahar-ba experience described by our Brother. If these people continue fervently for hour they will become fluent and their vocabulary will increase.In tongues there are many different languages and sometimes we move known languages. I remember when I received the baptism of the Spirit; I was shocked to receive the gift of tongues. I literally found myself speaking in different languages, very fervently as I wept bitterly. I never expected or desired the gift but God works as He wills. On the first night I finally had the chance to answer many questions I had, and I was full of faith and of the Spirit of God. I asked the Father, "Lord give me the utterance to praise your Holy name!" Immediately I began to speak with a strange tongue. Then I asked for the utterance to worship Him, I was shocked to find that it was a different utterance. I asked for many utterances, all the while I was being filled more and more by His Spirit. Lastly I was moved to ask fore utterance to rebuke the evil spirits in the area where I lived; as I thought of all the prostitutes and drug addicts outside (I lived in America at this time, although we also have prostitutes and drug addicts here in Zimbabwe). To my surprise I began to sing a very beautiful song under the unction of God. I did not know one could sing in tongues at that time, but by the grace of God I did. Demons can not stand worship or peace. I was expecting a very warlike cry and rebukes to come from my mouth, but I was actually moved in the realm of worship. I understand now that the peace of God crushes Satan under our feet (Romans 16:20).Now came the question which I was dying to know ever since I read that passage. The tongues of angels. I asked God to give me utterance to call His angels to worship His Holy name. This utterance was very fast, I could barely keep up with it. It was so strong I became frightened, and as soon as I was afraid it ceased. Fear and faith don't mix, and when I was afraid I was no longer walking in faith. Still I dared not try that again, but by the leadings of the Spirit, my brother-in-law (IRONMAN from SI) was filled with the Spirit and was given a mighty anointing. And so we began to pray together. At this time only He was operating the gift of discerning of spirits and he saw many mysteries. One day we were making intercession and praying fervently and we both began to speak in that tongue. When we finished praying, I told him excitedly, "that was a tongue of angels!" He was equally excited when he told me that he had discerned 4 angels at that time, and when we had prayed they went out.Let me explain this as best as I can. The utterance comes from the Holy Spirit, and so you can only speak what the Spirit allows you to speak. It is not at all like a casual conversation with angels but it is entirely under unction. Never seek to communicate with or pray to or worship angels but, respect their ministry and acknowledge in your own heart that it exists. You don't have to profess it but it is not good to deny it altogether. Angels are God's servants not ours, so we pray to God, and He sometimes chooses to answer by the hand of His angels but we are for the most part no aware of it. You don't have to ask God to send angels to protect you, you jus ask God to protect you and He will decide whether to send angels or another means which is more appropriate.Just to round up the question of tongues... The reason why so many Pentecostals speak in tongues is because they are excising their faith in that area, but yet not all of them have the "gift of tongues", the gift is much more powerful. Now I understand what Paul was saying when he said, "but covet earnestly the best gifts" 1 Cor12:31. I used to wonder, "how can I covet a gift which it is not God's will for me to move in?" And then it is more interesting, in chapter 14 verse 1 and 5 where he says, "Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy" and "I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification." Why should we pursue prophecy if it's possibly not God's will for us to move in this? Why does he wish we all speak in tongues and even more that we prophesied? There are only two possibilities it seems to me, either I have not fully understood the passage or the apostle himself did not full understand what he was saying and was beginning to contradict himself. Since the latter was clearly unacceptable, I was forced to re-examine my views. This is what I found. There is a level of prophesying which we can all operate but not all have the gift, and there is a level of tongues we can all operate but not all have the gift of tongues. In this context Paul begins to make sense and the puzzle has been solved for me anyway.In ChristGabriel

thats a good one!I think it is time for me to pull out my hebrew for Dummies book (No, I really do have that book), and start trying to learn Hebrew again.That is a good point, I never thought of it like that before,blessings,matthew

sis anniei can attest to the truth of what Gabriel is saying in that i was with him during this time. in asking the Lord to give him utterance to command the angels to worship Him, that had to do with Gabriel (who was skeptical of such gifts) checking to see if this was real or not. He had asked the Lord to give Him utterance for several other things too but didn't mention those in the post. unlike the other tongues in which we sometimes spoke/speak in, this was not one which we were unctioned to speak in very often. since that time i've been more aware of the Lord's angels about me going about the Lord's work so it's not like "hey how you doin? cup of tea" kinda thing but on occasion the Lord will respond to a prayer or need of mine by sending an angel to assist me. let it be known that i don't ask God specifically to send an angel but He does so of His own choosing.

bro Krispywhile it appears that Paul was trying to make a point (which he was) by mentioning tongues of angels he acknowledges their existence. if they didn't it would be a lie to mention them as he did. i can attest the their existence because i've heard my brother speak in them and so have i. now when this happened he was at his home and i was at mine and when the Lord brought us together on the day we both spoke in them we'd not talked about it but when it happened it was confirmation for us both of something the Lord had shown us before hand. now we're not saying go out and seek this coz we certainly didn't, in fact we didn't even want anything from the Lord save for kicking a few habits and getting into heaven, God evidently had other plans. we're not saying go out and seek this but we are simply testifying and speaking of what the Lord has done in our live in His own sovereignty and for His own purposes. we are not teaching it as doctrine, it is just a testimony.i made the mistake of mentioning it in passing right after this started to happen on s.i. and got into a dust up about it and the fallout from which has cropped up in subsequent discussions. i've had to explain myself time and time again in private and some people don't believe it which is cool. the bottom line is i know it to be true and the Lord confirms it and that's good enough for me. i'm not trying to convince anyone, just offering my testimony. The Lord has shown us so much using all manner of illustration and poured out all kinds of revelation on us which we've not shared on s.i. because it would be controversial and would really do more harm than good. so in this matter Krispy i disagree with you (as we have and do on others). i guess at the end of the day if you or anyone else had been there it would be real to you like it is to us. again noone has to belive this in the least we're just sharing testimony. we know what the Lord is doing in us and through us (it's way more than we bargained for) and trust and know the Lord is indeed at work.love y'all brethren

bro KrispyNo, he doesnt acknowledge anything by what he said. To sure, angels do speak in a language. That should be obvious, but he was not saying that we would. He was using an overstatemet to make his point. Kinda like if I said "I could drive this car from here to the moon, but it doesnt mean I have to like it." Am I acknowleding that there is a moon and I can really drive my car to it?well you know we disagree here and i know you still love me coz i still love you bro.How do you know? Have you heard angelic languages? How do you know it wasnt an earthly human language?till that day i hadn't, now i'd spoken in a few different languages via Holy Spirit but this was uniquely different. perhaps the Lord will have us physically fellowship one day and if the Lord leads you may hear it. just take my word for it (if you will) or not but it is very different, very different.love you bro

sis anniei know you believe in the gifts sis, i'll be giving Gabriel a call tomorrow so i'll let him know to pray for you too. the enemy's minions have been working overtime so i know sis, trust me i know. God bless and keep you sis, prayin for yu!

Hey everyoneThank you Farai for your posts, that is just what I would have said. Thank you Krispy for your contributions and Sister Annie your prayer request is noted, I will be sure to take it to my fellowship group for prayer but I suppose Farai (IRONMAN) will be able to respond to you faster than me, since internet access here is a little hard for me to get at.Just one thing I want to add in my own conclusion, this is not at all a teaching point for me or anything I exhort you to but, as the subject came up I was lead to testify of how the Lord has been working in my life. Should we truly marvel at such minor things as these? The same Jesus who went up into heaven and was taken up in a cloud works things which are a million miles beyond the giving of utterance. There is no real way for us to rationalize this so we may have to agree to disagree in the as we endeavor to keep the unity of faith in Jesus Christ. If I have stepped on any toes may you forgive me in the name Jesus for His sake.Gabriel PS: I have seen the questions possed to me and I believe my brother answerd well on my behalf but if you have more to inquire please send me a personal message. May the grace of our Lord Jesus be with you all. Amen.

My personal opinion is that Hebrew is the language spoken in Heaven. In every single instance where scripture mentions a voice from heaven being spoken, and it states what language it was in... it was Hebrew. Both OT & NT. This was even true when Jesus spoke to Paul from heaven on the road to Damascus... Hmm... If that is true (I haven't checked all the references), the question would come up..Has every person in the Bible that an angel spoke to been one who understood Hebrew? In the Bible, was there ever a person that did not speak Hebrew that an angel spoke to? If not then your point really couldn't be proven could it?That's just what came to mind when I read your post..

I'm new to this web logging stuff but ran across your discussion on tongues and was so blessed I read every word and prayed over it. any way here is what I tried to say earlier. Greetings Saints, Disciples (of Christ), and Seekers,I tried to write a log to add to this discussion last night but the power went out I saved the words on my laptop and am now at work so I will send them later. Just know your discussion has strengthened and encouraged me. I love you all and give all my love to God. That is all for now my questions are in the later posting (God willing) I will send. God bless, Keep up the dialogue you are blessing more than you will know on this side of life. Jeremy Weeks

KrispyKrittr wrote:All I'm saying is that when a voice was spoken from heaven, and scripture tells what language it was... it was always Hebrew. Even when spoken to Paul, who understood Hebrew (he was a Pharisee) but it wasnt his normal language.With the exception of the NIV.KrispyKrispy--In this case when we call on the Name should we say "Yeshua" versus "Jesus" I am not being sarcastic, this is something I've been thinking about as a curiosity. I figured you would be a good person to ask.

Greetings Saints, Disciples and seeker, Is not Jesus so powerfully working in our midst and in this time?! I truly believe that we should not settle for living lives content with out the powerful work of God present in every member of the body and our bodies. I just recently was lead to this website. Today I returned and found this posting. I have never spoken in tongues, although I now a few who have prayed for me and with me in this gift, I read this dialogue of experience and scriptural truth and was immediately blessed. I found that your words were bathed in scripture and love. I too am eager to be used by God and am seeking his will and purpose for me. I am trying to first practice the discipline of purity and am eagerly repenting of sins that I allowed permission to be part of my heart and life (ie. lust, selfishness, etc.) . Since this is a continual and on going process adn practice I don't intend to stop this practice but am eager to begin this time ( I am greatly enjoying it and being blessed greatly). Any way back to your discussion..... thanks for listening and anyone who is interested in sending a personal word to me my email is: (jeremy_weeks_82@msn.com) please be gracious and gentle. Any way, God is good, and as I mentioned: I haven't been able ,if that is the word, to speak in tongues. Some have said pray for it and claim it, and then just let your tongue go. I don't understand that but try in faith to experience this gift ( like someone sd in an earlier post I and I paraphrase " there is a difference between gifting of tongues and the body of Christ all being allowed to speak in tongues to God (romans 8 "spirit intercedes with groans" off topic but came to mind)." I really am eager to find out what God's spiritual gifting is through Christ in me but I don't know how to learn my gifting in the spirit. So if anyone has scripture to look into that I may see God's heart in explaining the eternal truth of spiritual gifts please email it or send a log on this in reply to my post. Thanks to anyone who read my words, none of this: not my change in heart, actions, desire to grow, seeking God, or anything else can be attributed to anything but God's awesome power at work in this present day and in my own heart. All praise and honor, glory and might are yours our Jesus Lord, Savior, and Friend. Amen( let it be done) on earth as it is done in heaven! I end in prayer for the repentence of our generation among other things on my hear: Father God, Bless this generation, not with more money, less poverty, or anything else unless it brings us into deeper and more abiding fellowship with your son Jesus Christ. May all things be to your glory in our lives and not our own sinful lives, humble our spirits and break our hearts, bring us to your feet and feed us the bread and water of life. Use the men and women and children of this day ( our generation) to bring about a great and might spread of the gospel and a turning of the world's heart to God, I know your world says that this world will end not in peace but in your return and an end of the ruler of the kingdom of this world. You are King of kings and Lord of lords, please be at work and bring as many children into your family as possible. I love you lord and seek to have you be my all. Jesus, Jesus, Praise Jesus. Oh that the day would come where we join you in eternal fellowship, yet we wait and live our lives knowing that your timing is perfect and I wonder in the thought that had you come back just a hundred years earlier say 1900 a.d. then I don't think my soul would have been formed in my mother's womb as you knit me together. But in your perfect patience you loved me even to the point of withstanding sin up till now to allow my and all our births to this day (not to mention that you loved me to the point of death, Jesus be raised up in glory). Forgive my many words Father, I seek not to please man yet bring your glory, I am not assamed of the name that brings true life. Father I pray that you would use these words to bless just one heart. I pray that others will not be offended but challenged to seek you out in the Bible. Your word is truth. In Jesus Name I pray and in the heart of his purpose and love, Amen, Hey anyone who read my words forgive the length but I found myself truly enjoying this. I truly was bless by the dialogue, so I was compelled to respond to this conversation. If you could respond to me with words of encouragement (ie. scripture, sermons, general words of wisdom, etc.) I would greatly appreciate that. And if you could direct that encouragement towards the spiritual gifting and God's will in showing me, mine, then great but I welcome all words of truth. PS. while half way though this log the power at the Christian bookstore/ coffeshop I was at went out (it was storming) and my internet went down so I couldn't send this and inturn kept logging away. I hope this reaches the website and then you. If not, then you won't read this and God's will would be that I typed all this for His glory and my joy and blessing. But I pray that it reaches you. Amen.

Mavtech Please forgive the late and very brief response on my part, but I felt I had to at least acknowledge that I was deeply touched by your post, by the zeal for the Lord that is burning in your heart, the same zeal in you is in me and we are truly brothers in Christ. My internet access is limited but God is opening doors and I believe this is one such door. I am stired to write a seperate thread on "spiritual gifts, callings and natural abilities" (all are important) but as for this thread I think we may go off topic if we expound on that here. Please pray for me that the Lord gives me the words to speak from His Spirit. Please email me and let me know what the details of your struggles are so I that I may minister more earnestly. Do not be ashamed, for there is no condemnation in Christ. (jdziya@yahoo.co.ukAnnieI hope you read this post sis because I would like you to send me the details of your situation so that I can pray more thoroughly for you. You can send mea PM or email me at jdziya@yahoo.co.ukGabriel

Jimm, I am now at a ministry training seminar about spiritual counseling. I am eager to write more to you and hear your words. I pray that the God of all wisdom and knowledge will fill you with his spirit as you write your heart and the truth God has given you. More later, But thank you for responding, Your Brother in Christ, Jeremy Weeks

brethrenShould we truly marvel at such minor things as these? The same Jesus who went up into heaven and was taken up in a cloud works things which are a million miles beyond the giving of utterance. There is no real way for us to rationalize this so we may have to agree to disagree in the as we endeavor to keep the unity of faith in Jesus Christ. If I have stepped on any toes may you forgive me in the name Jesus for His sake.indeed, this same Jesus who was used of God to make all things out of nothing can surely do more wondrous things in us and through us than these. i think of Paul in this portion of 2 corinthians:2 Corinthians 12:1-10 1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come F33 to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful F34 for a man to utter. 5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. 6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. The Lord so honoured Paul as to show him paradise, Paul was unsure if this was in body or spirit. i think the greater miracle though, the greater display of the Lord's power at which we should marvel is that saul was once a persecutor of the Church, if he was not a murderer (i think he did kill a few Christians) he was an accessory (he was there when steven was stoned and did nothing to stop it) and yet the Lord turned this man into one of His own servants. if the Lord could whisk paul away to heaven would He not do the same for any one of us if it's His will? sometimes i think that our God is too small.

bro Mavtechwelcome to s.i!Is not Jesus so powerfully working in our midst and in this time?! I truly believe that we should not settle for living lives content with out the powerful work of God present in every member of the body and our bodies.AAAAMMMMEEEENNN!!!! like i said, sometimes i thinkour God is too small. out of one side of our mouth we say "wow look at all the things the Lord did through the apostles and the early church." and we are in awe and forget that these were ordinary people like ourselves yielded wholly to God and the world was forever changed. we put them on a pedastal and give no thought to ourselves being so used. then out the other side of our mouth we say "the Lord is the same yesterday, today and forever"I just recently was lead to this website. Today I returned and found this posting. I have never spoken in tongues, although I now a few who have prayed for me and with me in this gift, I read this dialogue of experience and scriptural truth and was immediately blessed. I found that your words were bathed in scripture and love. I too am eager to be used by God and am seeking his will and purpose for me. I am trying to first practice the discipline of purity and am eagerly repenting of sins that I allowed permission to be part of my heart and life (ie. lust, selfishness, etc.) . Since this is a continual and on going process adn practice I don't intend to stop this practice but am eager to begin this time ( I am greatly enjoying it and being blessed greatly).Repenting is the first stop for any Christian, the preaching of this is not popular obviously because people have been taught to think that Christianity is free. Now repentance is an ongoing process and the seeking of the Lord's forgiveness for sin is too and we must always do so lest our hearts become calloused and our eyes dimmed to blindness that we no longer see sin as sin. Any way, God is good, and as I mentioned: I haven't been able ,if that is the word, to speak in tongues. Some have said pray for it and claim it, and then just let your tongue go. I don't understand that but try in faith to experience this gift ( like someone sd in an earlier post I and I paraphrase " there is a difference between gifting of tongues and the body of Christ all being allowed to speak in tongues to God (romans 8 "spirit intercedes with groans" off topic but came to mind)." I really am eager to find out what God's spiritual gifting is through Christ in me but I don't know how to learn my gifting in the spirit.you said before you are seeking the Lord's purpose and will for you. now His will and purpose may or may not involve speaking in tongues, the only thing really we should be seeking is His will. Paul says in the 1st letter to the corinthians1 Corinthians 12:27-31 27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. 28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities F46 of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.not all of us speak in tongues, not all of us have the gift of healing and so on yet we are members of the same body and each of us is used of God to fulfil His purposes. indeed we should desire the best gifts (prophecy being one) but the better way, or should i say the most excellent way is to seek the Lord's will. we may ask the Lord for certain gifts out of a spirit of selfishness or self-promotion but to seek the Lord's will puts that whole motive out of the picture. i pray the Lord show you those gifts given to you for the edification of His Church and that as we are led we assisst you in that endevour. keep seeking the Lord's will bro. bro Gabriel says he will start a thread on spiritual gifts which i know will edify those who will read so i pray He ministers to you through that and whatever other means to His own glory. AMEN.

It is good to see you Jimm, back here again.Look at the 9 gifts of the Spirit, and then look at some the development areas of the Christian life. Notice that we all aspire to wisdom, but not all are given a word of wisdom. A word of wisdom is divine revelation concerning a future event. We all aspire to knowledge, but not all are given a word of knowledge. A word of knowledge is divine revelation concerning something present or past which could not have otherwise been known by natural means.Not sure where you got those defenitions, they are modern to be sure, but I don't think you can back those with scripture. It's not a point of contention that I bring, just some otherwise study, it is prone to be a bit long but ...1Co 12:8 - For to one is given - In order to show what endowments he refers to, the apostle here particularizes the various gifts which the Holy Spirit imparts in the church.By the Spirit - By the Holy Spirit; by his agency on the mind and heart.The word of wisdom - One he has endowed with wisdom, or has made distinguished for wise, and prudent, and comprehensive views of the scheme of redemption, and with a faculty of clearly explaining it to the apprehension of people. It is not certain that the apostle meant to say that this was the most important or most elevated endowment because he places it first in order. His design does not seem to be to observe the order of importance and value, but to state, as it occurred to him, the fact that these various endowments had been conferred on different people in the church. The sense is, that one man would be prominent and distinguished as a wise man - a prudent counsellor, instructor, and adviser.To another the word of knowledge - Another would be distinguished for knowledge. He would be learned; would have a clear view of the plan of salvation, and of the doctrines and duties of religion. The same variety is observed in the ministry at all times. One man is eminent as a wise man; another as a man of intelligence and knowledge; and both may be equally useful in their place in the church.By the same Spirit - All is to be traced to the same Spirit; all, therefore, may be really useful and necessary; and the one should not pride himself in his endowments above the other.1Co 12:9 - To another faith - Another shall he distinguished for simple confidence in God; and his endowment is also given by the same Spirit. Many of the most useful people in the church are distinguished mainly for their simple confidence in the promises of God; and often accomplish more by prayer and by their faith in God than others do who are distinguished for their wisdom and learning. Humble piety and reliance in the divine promises, and that measure of ardor, fearlessness, and zeal which result from such confidence; that belief that all obstacles must be and will be overcome that oppose the gospel; and that God will secure the advancement of his cause, will often do infinitely more in the promotion of his kingdom than the most splendid endowments of learning and talent. Indeed, if a man were disposed to do good on the widest scale possible, to do the utmost that he possibly could in saving people, he would best accomplish it by seeking simple “faith” in God’s aid and promises, and then under the influence of this, engage with ardor in doing what he could. Faith is one of the highest endowments of the Christian life; and yet, though all may obtain it, it is one of the rarest endowments. Perhaps by many it is despised, because it may be obtained by all; because it is a grace in which the poor and the humble may be as much distinguished as the man of splendid talents and profound learning.To another the gifts of healing - See Mar_16:18. This was promised to the disciples of the Saviour; and in the early church was conferred on many; compare Act_5:12, Act_5:15-16; Act_19:12. It would seem from this passage that the gift of healing was conferred on some in a more eminent degree than on others.1Co 12:10 - To another the working of miracles - Commentators have felt some perplexity in distinguishing this from what is mentioned in 1Co_12:9, of the gift of healing. it is evident that the apostle there refers to the power of working miracles in healing inveterate and violent diseases. The expression used here, “working of miracles” (ἐνεργήματα δυναμέων energēmata dunameōn) refers probably to the more “extraordinary” and “unusual” kinds of miracles; to those which were regarded as in advance of the power of healing diseases. It is possible that it may denote what the Saviour had reference to in Mar_16:18, where he said they should take up serpents, and if they drank any deadly thing it should not hurt them; and possibly also to the power of raising up the dead. That this power was possessed by the apostles is well known; and it is possible that it was possessed by others also of the early Christians. It is clear from all this that there was a difference even among those who had the power of working miracles, and that this power was conferred in a more eminent degree on some than on others. Indeed, the “extraordinary” endowments conferred on the apostles and the early Christians, seem to have been regulated to a remarkable degree in accordance with the rule by which “ordinary” endowments are conferred upon people. Though all people have understanding, memory, imagination, bodily strength, etc., yet one has these in a more eminent degree than others; and one is characterized for the possession of one of those qualities more than for another. Yet all are bestowed by the same God. So it was in regard to the extraordinary endowments conferred on the early Christians; compare 1 Cor. 14, especially 1Co_14:32.To another prophecy; - See the note at Rom_12:6.(Will insert that here as well) ~~~~~~~~~~~~Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; Rom 12:6 - Having then gifts - All the endowments which Christians have are regarded by the apostle as gifts. God has conferred them; and this fact, when properly felt, tends much to prevent our thinking of ourselves more highly than we ought to think, Rom_12:3. For the use of the word rendered “gifts,” see Rom_1:11; Rom_5:15-16; Rom_6:23; Rom_11:29; 1Co_7:7; 1Co_12:4, 1Co_12:9,1Co_12:28, etc. It may refer to natural endowments as well as to the favors of grace; though in this place it refers doubtless to the distinctions conferred on Christians in the churches.Differing - It was never designed that all Christians should be equal. God designed that people should have different endowments. The very nature of society supposes this. There never was a state of perfect equality in any thing; and it would be impossible that there should be, and yet preserve society. In this, God exercises a sovereignty, and bestows his favors as he pleases, injuring no one by conferring favors on others; and holding me responsible for the right use of what I have, and not for what may be conferred on my neighbor.According to the grace - That is, the favor, the mercy that is bestowed on us. As all that we have is a matter of grace, it should keep us from pride; and it should make us willing to occupy our appropriate place in the church. True honor consists not in splendid endowments, or great wealth and function. It consists in rightly discharging the duties which God requires of us in our appropriate sphere. If all people held their talents as the gift of God; if all would find and occupy in society the place for which God designed them, it would prevent no small part of the uneasiness, the restlessness, the ambition, and misery of the world.Whether prophecy - The apostle now proceeds to specify the different classes of gifts or endowments which Christians have, and to exhort them to discharge aright the duty which results from the rank or function which they held in the church. “The first is prophecy.” This word properly means to predict future events, but it also means to declare the divine will; to interpret the purposes of God; or to make known in any way the truth of God, which is designed to influence people. Its first meaning is to predict or foretell future events; but as those who did this were messengers of God, and as they commonly connected with such predictions, instructions, and exhortations in regard to the sins, and dangers, and duties of people, the word came to denote any who warned, or threatened, or in any way communicated the will of God; and even those who uttered devotional sentiments or praise. The name in the New Testament is commonly connected with teachers; Act_13:1, “There were in the church at Antioch certain prophets, and teachers, as Barnabas, etc.;” Act_15:32, “and Judas and Silas, being prophets themselves, etc.;” Act_21:10, “a certain prophet named Agabus.” In 1Co_12:28-29, prophets are mentioned as a class of teachers immediately after apostles, “And God hath set some in the church; first apostles, secondly prophets; thirdly teachers, etc.”The same class of persons is again mentioned in 1Co_14:29-32, 1Co_14:39. In this place they are spoken of as being under the influence of revelation, “Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. If anything be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets;” 1Co_14:39, “Covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.” In this place endowments are mentioned under the name of prophecy evidently in advance even of the power of speaking with tongues. Yet all these were to be subject to the authority of the apostle. 1Co_14:37. In Eph_4:11, they are mentioned again in the same order; “And he gave some apostles; and some prophets; and some evangelists; and some pastors, and teachers, etc.” From these passages the following things seem clear in relation to this class of persons:(1) They were an order of teachers distinct from the apostles, and next to them in authority and rank.(2) they were under the influence of revelation, or inspiration in a certain sense.(3) they had power of controlling themselves, and of speaking or keeping silence as they chose. They had the power of using their prophetic gifts as we have the ordinary faculties of our minds, and of course of abusing them also. This abuse was apparent also in the case of those who had the power of speaking with tongues, 1Co_14:2, 1Co_14:4,1Co_14:6, 1Co_14:11, etc.(4) they were subject to the apostles.(5) they were superior to the other teachers and pastors in the church.(6) the office or the endowment was temporary, designed for the settlement and establishment of the church; and then, like the apostolic office, having accomplished its purpose, to be disused, and to cease. From these remarks, also, will be seen the propriety of regulating this function by apostolic authority; or stating, as the apostle does here, the manner or rule by which this gift was to be exercised.According to the proportion - This word ἀναλογίαν analogian is no where else used in the New Testament. The word properly applies to mathematics (Scheusner), and means the ratio or proportion which results from comparison of one number or magnitude with another. In a large sense, therefore, as applied to other subjects, it denotes the measure of any thing. With us it means analogy, or the congruity or resemblance discovered between one thing and another, as we say there is an analogy or resemblance between the truths taught by reason and revelation. (See Butler’s Analogy.) But this is not its meaning here. It means the measure, the amount of faith bestowed on them, for he was exhorting them to Rom_12:3. “Think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.” The word “faith” here means evidently, not the truths of the Bible revealed elsewhere; nor their confidence in God; nor their personal piety; but the extraordinary endowment bestowed on them by the gifts of prophecy.They were to confine themselves strictly to that; they were not to usurp the apostolic authority, or to attempt to exercise their special function; but they were to confine themselves strictly to the functions of their office according to the measure of their faith, that is, the extraordinary endowment conferred on them. The word “faith” is thus used often to denote that extraordinary confidence in God which attended the working of miracles, etc., Mat_17:26; Mat_21:21; Luk_17:6. If this be the fair interpretation of the passage, then it is clear that the interpretation which applies it to systems of theology, and which demands that we should interpret the Bible so as to accord with the system, is one that is wholly unwarranted. It is to be referred solely to this class of religious teachers, without reference to any system of doctrine, or to any thing which had been revealed to any other class of people; or without affirming that there is any resemblance between one truth and another. All that may be true, but it is not the truth taught in this passage. And it is equally clear that the passage is not to be applied to teachers now, except as an illustration of the general principle that even those endowed with great and splendid talents are not to over-estimate them, but to regard them as the gift of God; to exercise them in subordination to his appointment and to seek to employ them in the manner, the place, and to the purpose that shall be according to his will. They are to employ them in the purpose for which God gave them; and for no other. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~To another discerning of spirits - compare 1Jo_4:1. This must refer to some power of searching into the secrets of the heart; of knowing what were a man’s purposes. views, and feelings. It may relate either to the power of determining by what spirit a man spoke who pretended to be inspired, whether he was truly inspired or whether he was an impostor; or it may refer to the power of seeing whether a man was sincere or not in his Christian profession That the apostles had this power, is apparent from the case of Ananias and Sapphira, Act_5:1-10, and from the case of Elymas, Act_13:9-11. It is evident that where the gift of prophecy and inspiration was possessed, and where it would confer such advantages on those who possessed it, there would be many pretenders to it; and that it would be of vast importance to the infant church, in order to prevent imposition, that there should be a power in the church of detecting the imposture.To another divers kinds of tongues - The power of speaking various languages; see Act_2:4, Act_2:7-11. This passage also seems to imply that the extraordinary endowments of the Holy Spirit were not conferred on all alike.To another the interpretation of tongues - The power of interpreting foreign languages; or of interpreting the language which might be used by the “prophets” in their communications; see the note at 1Co_14:27. This was evidently a faculty different from the power of speaking a foreign language; and yet it might be equally useful. It would appear possible that some might have had the power of speaking foreign languages who were not themselves apprized of the meaning, and that interpreters were needful in order to express the sense to the hearers. Or it may have been that in a promiscuous assembly, or in an assembly made up of those who spoke different languages, a part might have understood what was uttered, and it was needful that an interpreter should explain it to the other portion; see the notes on 1Co_14:28.(Again, continuing)1Co 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 1Co 14:28 - But if there be no interpreter - If there be no one present who has the gift of interpretation.And let him speak to himself and to God - See the note at 1Co_14:2, note at 1Co_14:4. Let him commune with himself, and with God; let him meditate on the truths which are revealed to him, and let him in secret express his desires to God.1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.1Co 14:2 - For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue - This verse is designed to show that the faculty of speaking intelligibly, and to the edification of the church, is of more value than the power of speaking a foreign language. The reason is, that however valuable may be the endowment in itself, and however important the truth which he may utter, yet it is as if he spoke to God only. No one could understand him.Speaketh not unto men - Does not speak so that people can understand him. His address is really not made to people, that is, to the church. He might have this faculty without being able to speak to the edification of the church. It is possible that the power of speaking foreign languages and of prophesying were sometimes united in the same person; but it is evident that the apostle speaks of them as different endowments, and they probably were found usually in different individuals.But unto God - It is as if he spoke to God. No one could understand him but God. This must evidently refer to the addresses “in the church,” when Christians only were present, or when those only were present who spoke the same language, and who were unacquainted with foreign tongues. Paul says that “there” that faculty would be valueless compared with the power of speaking in a manner that should edify the church. He did not undervalue the power of speaking foreign languages when foreigners were present, or when they went to preach to foreigners; see 1Co_14:22. It was only when it was needless, when all present spoke one language, that he speaks of it as of comparatively little value.For no man understandeth him - That is, no man in the church, since they all spoke the same language, and that language was different from what was spoken by him who was endowed with the gift of tongues. As God only could know the import of what he said, it would be lost upon the church, and would be useless.Howbeit in the Spirit - Although, by the aid of the Spirit, he should, in fact, deliver the most important and sublime truths. This would doubtless be the case, that those who were thus endowed would deliver most important truths, but they would be “lost” upon those who heard them, because they could not understand them. The phrase “in the Spirit,” evidently means “by the Holy Spirit,” that is, by his aid and influence. Though he should be “really” under the influence of the Holy Spirit, and though the important truth which he delivers should be imparted by his aid, yet all would be valueless unless it were understood by the church.He speaketh mysteries - For the meaning of the word “mystery,” see Note, 1Co_2:7. The word here seems to be synonymous with sublime and elevated truth; truth that was not before known, and that might be of the utmost importance.1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:1Co 2:7 - But we speak - We who have preached the gospel.The wisdom of God - We teach or proclaim the wise plan of God for the salvation of people; we make known the divine wisdom in regard to the scheme of human redemption. This plan was of God, in opposition to other plans which were of human beings.In a mystery, even the hidden wisdom - ἐν μυστηρίῳ τὴν ἀποκεκρυμμένην en mustēriō tēn apokekrummenēn. The words “even” and “wisdom” in this translation have been supplied by our translators; and the sense would be more perspicuous if they were omitted, and the translation should be literally made, “We proclaim the divine wisdom hidden in a mystery.” The apostle does not say that their preaching was mysterious, nor that their doctrine was unintelligible, but he refers to the fact that this wisdom had been “hidden in a mystery” from people until that time, but was then revealed by the gospel. In other words, he does not say that what they then declared was hidden in a mystery, but that they made known the divine wisdom which had been concealed from the minds of people. The word “mystery” with us is commonly used in the sense of that which is beyond comprehension; and it is often applied to such doctrines as exhibit difficulties which we are not able to explain.But this is not the sense in which it is commonly used in the Scriptures; see the note at Mat_13:11; compare Campbell on the Gospels, Dissertation 9; part 1. The word properly denotes that which is “concealed” or “hidden;” that which has not yet been made known; and is applied to those truths which until the revelation of Jesus Christ were concealed from people, which were either hidden under obscure types and shadows or prophecies, or which had been altogether unrevealed, and unknown to the world. The word stands opposed to that which is revealed, not to that which is in itself plain. The doctrines to which the word relates may be in themselves clear and simple, but they are hidden in mystery until they are revealed. From this radical idea in the word “mystery,” however, it came also to be applied not only to those doctrines which had not been made known, but to those also which were in themselves deep and difficult to that which is enigmatical and obscure; 1Co_14:2; 1Ti_3:16.It is applied also to the secret designs and purposes of God; Rev_10:7. The word is most commonly applied by Paul to the secret and long concealed design of God to make known his gospel to the Gentiles; to break down the wall between them and the Jews; and to spread the blessings of the true religion everywhere; Rom_11:25; Rom_16:25; Eph_1:9; Eph_3:9; Eph_6:19. Here, it evidently means the beauty and excellency of the person and plans of Jesus Christ, but which were in fact unknown to the princes of this world. It does not imply, of necessity, that they could not have understood them, nor that they were unintelligible, but that, in fact, whatever was the cause, they were concealed from them. Paul says 1Co_2:8, that had they known his wisdom, they would not have crucified him - which implies at least that it was not in itself unintelligible; and he further says, that this mystery had been revealed to Christians by the Spirit of God, which proves that he does not here refer to that which is in itself unintelligible; 1Co_2:10. “The apostle has here especially in view the all-wise counsel of God for the salvation of people by Jesus Christ, in the writings of the Old Testament only obscurely signified, and to the generality of people utterly unknown” - Bloomfield.Which God ordained - Which plan, so full of wisdom, God appointed in his own purpose before the foundation of the world; that is, it was a plan which from eternity he determined to execute. It was not a new device; it had not been got up to serve an occasion; but it was a plan laid deep in the eternal counsel of God, and on which he had his eye forever fixed. This passage proves, that God had a plan, and that this plan was eternal. This is all that is involved in the doctrine of eternal decrees or purposes. And if God had a plan about this, there is the same reason to think that he had a plan in regard to all things.Unto our glory - In order that we might be honored or glorified. This may refer either to the honor which was put upon Christians in this life, in being admitted to the privileges of the sons of God; or more probably to that “eternal weight of glory” which remains for them in heaven; 2Co_4:17. One design of that plan was to raise the redeemed to “glory, and honor, and immortality.” It should greatly increase our gratitude to God, that it was a subject of eternal design; that he always has cherished this purpose; and that he has loved us with such love, and sought our happiness and salvation with such intensity, that in order to accomplish it, he was willing to give his own Son to die on a cross.Barnes Notes~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Just wanted to bring some perspective here to all this, to hear an older voice on these things.

To the verse originaly in question:1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.1Co 13:1 - Though I speak with the tongues of men - Though I should be able to speak all the languages which are spoken by people. To speak foreign languages was regarded then, as it is now, as a rare and valuable endowment; compare Virgil, Aeneas vi. 625ff. The word “I” here is used in a popular sense, and the apostle designs to illustrate, as he often does, his idea by a reference to himself, which, it is evident, he wishes to be understood as applying to those whom he addressed. It is evident that among the Corinthians the power of speaking a foreign language was regarded as a signally valuable endowment; and there can be no doubt that some of the leaders in that church valued themselves especially on it; see 1 Cor. 14. To correct this, and to show them that all this would be vain without love, and to induce them, therefore, to seek for love as a more valuable endowment, was the design of the apostle in this passage. Of this verse Dr. Bloomfield, than whom, perhaps, there is no living man better qualified to give such an opinion, remarks, that “it would be difficult to find a finer passage than this in the writings of Demosthenes himself.”And of angels - The language of angels; such as they speak. Were I endowed with the faculty of eloquence and persuasion which we attribute to them; and the power of speaking to any of the human family with the power which they have. The language of angels here seems to be used to denote the highest power of using language, or of the most elevated faculty of eloquence and speech. It is evidently derived from the idea that the angels are “superior” in all respects to human beings; that they must have endowments in advance of all which man can have. It may possibly have reference to the idea that they must have some mode of communicating their ideas one to another, and that this dialect or mode must be far superior to that which is employed by man. Man is imperfect. All his modes of communication are defective. We attribute to the angels the idea of perfection; and the idea here is, that even though a man had a far higher faculty of speaking languages than would be included in the endowment of speaking all the languages of human beings as people speak them, and even had the higher and more perfect mode of utterance which the angels have, and yet were destitute of love, all would be nothing. It is possible that Paul may have some allusion here to what he refers to in 2Co_12:4, where he says that when he was caught up into paradise, he heard unspeakable words which it was not possible for a man to utter. To this higher, purer language of heaven he may refer here by the language of the angels. It was not with him mere “conjecture” of what that language might be; it was language which he had been permitted himself to hear. Of that scene he would refain a most deep and tender recollection; and to that language he now refers, by saying that even that elevated language would be valueless to a creature if there were not love.And have not charity - (ἀγάπην δὲ μὴ ἔχω agapēn de mē echō . And have not love. This is the proper and usual meaning of the Greek word. The English word charity is used in a great variety of senses; and some of them cannot be included in the meaning of the word here. It means:(1) In a general sense, love, benevolence, good-will;(2) In theology, it includes supreme love to God and universal good-will to mankind;(3) In a more particular sense, it denotes the love and kindness which springs from the natural relations, as the “charities” of father, son, brother;(4) Liberality to the poor, to the needy, and to objects of beneficence, as we speak commonly of “charity,” meaning almsgiving, and of charitable societies;(5) “Candor” liberality in judging of people’s actions indulgence to their opinions; attributing to them good motives and intentions; a disposition to judge of them favorably, and to put on their words and actions the best construction. This is a very common signification of the word in our language now, and this is one modification of the word “love,” as all such charity is supposed to proceed from “love” to our neighbor, and a desire that he should have a right to his opinions as well as we to ours. The Greek word ἀγάπη agapē means properly “love,” affection, regard, good-will, benevolence. It is applied:(a)\tTo love in general;(b)\tTo the love of God and of Christ;(c)\tThe love which God or Christ exercises toward Christians, Rom_5:5; Eph_2:4; 2Th_3:5;(d)\tThe effect, or proof of beneficence, favor conferred: Eph_1:15; 2Th_2:10; 1Jo_3:1. Robinson, Lexicon.In the English word “charity,” therefore, there are now some ideas which are not found in the Greek word, and especially the idea of “almsgiving,” and the common use of the word among us in the sense of “candor” or “liberality in judging.” Neither of these ideas, perhaps, are to be found in the use of the word in the chapter before us; and the more proper translation would have been, in accordance with the usual mode of translation in the New Testament, love. Tyndale in his translation, renders it by the word “love.” The “love” which is referred to in this chapter, and illustrated, is mainly “love to man” 1Co_13:4-7; though there is no reason to doubt that the apostle meant also to include in the general term love to God, or love in general. His illustrations, however, are chiefly drawn from the effects of love toward people. It properly means love to the whole church, love to the whole world; love to all creatures which arises from true piety, and which centers ultimately in God - Doddridge. It is this love whose importance Paul, in this beautiful chapter, illustrates as being more valuable than the highest possible endowments without it. It is not necessary to suppose that anyone had these endowments, or had the power of speaking with the tongues of human beings and angels; or had the gift of prophecy, or had the highest degree of faith who had no love. The apostle supposes a case; and says that if it were so, if all these were possessed without love, they would be comparatively valueless; or that love was a more valuable endowment than all the others would be without it.I am become - I am. I shall be.As sounding brass - Probably a “trumpet.” The word properly means brass; then that which is made of brass; a trumpet, or wind instrument of any kind made of brass or copper. The sense is that of a sounding or resounding instrument, making a great noise, apparently of great importance, and yet without vitality; a mere instrument; a base metal that merely makes a sound. Thus, noisy, valueless, empty, and without vitality would be the power of speaking all languages without love.Or a tinkling cymbal - A cymbal giving a clanging, clattering sound. The word rendered “tinkling” (ἀλαλάζον alalazon, from ἄλαλή alalē or αλαλα alala, a “war-cry”) properly denotes a loud cry, or shout, such as is used in battle; and then also a loud cry or mourning, cries of lamentation or grief; the loud “shrick” of sorrow, Mar_5:38, “Them that wept and wailed greatly.” It then means a clanging or clattering sound, such as was made on a cymbal. The cymbal is a well-known instrument, made of two pieces of brass or other metal, which, being struck together, gives a tinkling or clattering sound. Cymbals arc commonly used in connection with other music. They make a tinkling, or clanging, with very little variety of sound. The music is little adapted to produce emotion, or to excite feeling. There is no melody and no harmony. They were, therefore, well adapted to express the idea which the apostle wished to convey. The sense is, “If I could speak all languages, yet if I had not love, the faculty would be like the clattering. clanging sound of the cymbal, that contributes nothing to the welfare of others. It would all be hollow, vain, useless. It could neither save me nor others, any more than the notes of the trumpet, or the jingling of the cymbal, would promote salvation. “Love” is the vital principle; it is that without which all ether endowments are useless and vain.”Barnes Notes~~~~~~~~~~~~

Greetings Brother MikeIndeed it is good to be back. Thank you for the warm welcome Brother Mike. This discussion for me is both inspiring but it is also strangely heavy. I have attempted several times to write a reply but every time I do so I have felt greatly weakened until there is no strength in me after a few sentences. What I was attempting to do was to address the points presented to me but each time I do so I have felt as if I was ministering in the wrong spirit. I have been praying about it and now I am attempting once again to see what the Lord will lead us into. In all things whether in our failures or in our success, may Christ be glorified in the unity of His saints. It is because that God is good that we are edified and built up in Him towards one purpose in the kingdom, the power and the glory.Concerning the kingdom we have a great assurance from the word of Christ which says to us, “behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” Now that it is in us is manifest the change which Christ brings to everyone whose heart is set upon Him and as it has been said, “if any man be in Christ behold, he is new creature old things are passed away and behold all things are become new”. And we are renewed in our minds by faith in the Son of God so that the kingdom which first came to this earth by the conception of the Holy Spirit is conceived in us as we behold by faith the glory of the only begotten Son God and “are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.” Now that Christ is glorious is manifest in all things which He both did and said in His ministry while He served the Father by the Holy Ghost, but it is by the love and the perfection of God which he maintained a sinless life even before the Holy Ghost came upon Him for the equipping of His ministry. So we know that Jesus did not increase in love or in Holiness by the Holy Ghost but we see the dove of peace lighting upon the Son of God, signifying His purity and the peace between the Father and the Son. Not as us, who receive the baptism of Holy Ghost fire but because there was nothing which was not of God in Him who was and is God, yes because of this the Holy Ghost landed as a dove and not as fire.So if the love and character of Christ was perfect what need was there for the Holy Ghost to come upon Him? We do not see the multitudes following after Jesus of Nazareth although He was the very Word of God until He was anointed by the Spirit. So by this we understand that the purpose for the anointing (at least in Jesus) was for the works of power in the ministry. As the kingdom, the power and the glory pertain to God, it is necessary that a demonstration be made by the Son of God to all three aspects. Moses beheld the glory the outline of the glory of Yahweh, and Yahweh declared His own glory saying, “The LORD, the LORD God merciful and gracious, longsuffering and abundant in goodness and truth”. This is the Word of God spoken when man had found favor in His eyes and this is the glory of the Word which was made flesh and took on human nature being called by the name of a man, “Jesus of Nazareth”. The death of Jesus opened unto us the holy of holies and now we are in the dispensation where not only do we enter into the depths of God, but God enters into the depths of us. And the Spirit searches the deep things of God, as it is written, “the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.” (1 Corinthians 2:10-15)Our Father Adam, died in the Garden of Eden when he partook of the fruit. We know that death does not refer to annihilation, but to separation from God and when the spirit of Adam was separated from God he died being that he was separated from the life. We know that the Son (who is God) is life, and “he that hath the Son hath life and he that hath not the Son hath not life”. Spiritual Life is not a separate entity which God imparts on us but it is God Himself and this life abides in our spirit. And now we have a superior dispensation to the old covenant, in that the anointing not only comes upon us but He is also within us. In the old testament they only received the anointing of God upon them, but He is now in us affecting our character.There are two kinds of oil depicted in the old testament, “ Oil for the light, spices for anointing oil” Exodus 25:6. There is anointing oil and there is oil for light and the Lord bestows both kinds of oil upon his saints. The oil for light is a mystery which is "…Christ in you, the hope of glory:” Colossians 1:27. It is because Jesus is the light of the world that we are lights in the world in that He lives in us. It is this oil, our relationship with Christ which leads to true holiness in Him. This oil brings life and light to our human spirits and now the Lord enters into the depths of His people, living His life in us. It is this oil which we must all have and it produces in us attributes of Christian character into which we must all grow. Wisdom, knowledge, faith, discerning are attributes of Christian character and are not spiritual gifts but we can all grow in them.Anointing upon refers to equipping for the ministry. It was only poured on those who were going to minister before God to His people (kings and priests). So when God gives a ministry to someone there is anointing upon them and this anointing is precious. It was by this anointing that Jesus began His ministry showing us the pattern for those who would go into ministry. The anointing upon is supernatural impartation of a small measure of the power of God for ministry and Christ demonstrated the power of God in Jesus now He demonstrates it through the saints who are His church. It is the kingdom the power and the glory which pertain to God and so of necessity we need not only to be exercised in holy character (oil for light) but also in the demonstration of the power of God (anointing oil) even as Jesus was.Spiritual gifts are supernatural impartations of the power of God within our lives, it is different to character development. It is because of and through these spiritual gifts that we are able to do the works of the power of God, as it is written “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.” John 14:12It is when we understand that Jesus demonstrated not only the character of God but also His power that we are stirred in both areas of development. For some suppose that the power of God is more important and they miss the very depths of God in their ministry, and some suppose that the character of God is more important and they are not as impactful in their ministries as they could be. Both aspects of God are pure and when they are balanced together they produce glory upon glory.So when I began seeking the depths of God I read many bible commentaries from men who I respected and still respect, but when the Holy Spirit came into my life I realized that many of these commentaries down play and sometimes even insult the aspect of the power of God, and so much of their doctrine in the area of spiritual gifts is inaccurate. I almost had accepted that God did not operate many gifts anymore until the Lord slowly began to show to me testimony upon testimony of His mighty workings which are both in character and power, such as in John Sung and Smith Wigglesworth among many others. And I had to redefine my definitions of spiritual gifts as the Spirit led me, through the writing of many mighty men and women of God such as Kathryn Kulman. Now many gifts are functioning in my own life by the grace of God, so that His testimony is not in word only, but in power and in the Holy Ghost. I urge you to consider carefully your beliefs whether they are based on confidence in man or on the word of God. I pray that you do not receive that badly my dear Brother. I say these things out of love, first for God and for all those who are of God. I pray that God is glorified in all we say and do on SI, in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.Gabriel