trees

so why the partial healing at first Jesus had very ingenius ways of making object lessons out of things that were going on. I've included the context of your reference - hopefully to shed some light on your question. Notice what happened just before the healing. Perhaps that may have some bearing on the partial healing of the blind man. What do you think Jesus may have been trying to point out? Is there a spiritual parallel?What does this say about the blind man? What about his faith? DianeMar 8:14 Now the disciples had forgotten to take any bread along and had only one loaf with them in the boat. Mar 8:15 Jesus had been warning them, "Watch out! Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and the yeast of Herod!" Mar 8:16 So they were discussing with one another the fact that they didn't have any bread. Mar 8:17 Knowing this, Jesus said to them, "Why are you discussing the fact that you don't have any bread? Don't you understand or perceive yet? Are your hearts hardened? Mar 8:18 Do you have eyes but fail to see? Do you have ears but fail to hear? Don't you remember? Mar 8:19 When I broke the five loaves for the 5,000, how many baskets did you fill with leftover pieces?" They told him, "Twelve." Mar 8:20 "When I broke the seven loaves for the 4,000, how many large baskets did you fill with the leftover pieces?" They told him, "Seven." Mar 8:21 Then he said to them, "Don't you perceive yet?" Mar 8:22 As they came to Bethsaida, some people brought a blind man to Jesus and begged him to touch him. Mar 8:23 Jesus took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the village. He spit into his eyes, placed his hands on him, and asked him, "Do you see anything?" Mar 8:24 The man looked up and said, "I see people, but they look like trees walking around." Mar 8:25 Then Jesus placed his hands on the man's eyes again, and he saw clearly. His sight was restored, and he saw everything perfectly even from a distance.

Andy said, i really am the type of person whos expecting the bammmmm from Jesus then are move on with him. Don’t we all! Yet, instant magic does nothing for our need to grow and mature. Christ is far more concerned that we build our faith, one block at a time. And he engages our minds – gets us THINKING - for ourselves. That’s not unlike what our teachers did in the past. They rattled our brains many times, and refused to give us simplistic questions that required simplistic answers . (if the were good teachers)the idea of Jesus healing you and ur faith still not enough for the miricle is scary. Well, it shouldn’t be scary. Why should we assume that a half healing is a punishment, like we did not deserve any better. Did you notice that the disciples had such difficulty SEEING spiritual truths? They had just SEEN the feeding of the 4000, and now they couldn’t SEE that Jesus was feeding them again by warning them about the yeast of the Pharisees, ie hypocrisy. The disciples received a double healing too – first they say with their natural eyes, and later they would see with their spiritual eyes. Perhaps the healing of the blind man in two stages was a prophetic foreshadowing of the spiritual healing of Christ’s followers – including us. How much has Christ done for us in the natural realm, which we can see. But how much spiritual healing of our ‘EYES’ have we yet to undergo. Think of the mud and spit… yuck! How unsophisticated, how absolutely OPPOSITE to any kind of healing practise. It is disgusting, actually. But it was the way of Christ. He is not confined by any formulas. And he often does things that break down our own pride and sense of dignity. It is all about self-decreasing. It is all about the development of our faith. its funny i was reading ur post about music..i play the piano real bad. My dear, it’ risky admitting this to a piano teacher. I may come back to you with questions: “How come?” or “What are you going to do about it?”.i was pondering my mindset about God and it struck me its the same mindset i have about music..im like well why do we need 12 keys, whys that note got to follow that note, why that chord first and that one after A very intelligent observation! The explanations to questions like this can never be understood on the surface. No one is going to dish out an easy answer. You have to dig into it for yourself, do the hard work.So, here’s how you can start: Learn to play some scales on the piano. Start with the C scale, then the G scale… then….. alright, I know you didn’t ask for this…. I was once told don’t give musical advice to anyone unless they pay for it. There is no such thing as a stupid question. The only thing that is stupid is not bothering to do what it takes to find the answers. If you want the answers you will pay whatever price it takes to find the answers. "The KINGDOM of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls.When he found one of great value,he went away and sold everything he had and bought it." Matt. 13:45God bless you Andy, as you keep on searching for treasure. Diane

Edited:We know that men are likened to trees thruogh out the bible, this men that Jesus heeld was given a 2nd sight into what jesus taught.Mat 7:16-19 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? :17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. :18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good :20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.Jud 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;the idea of Jesus healing you and ur faith still not enough for the miricle is scary. Jesus can heal with out faith.Why do you think that there are singns & wonders that follow HIS gosple?It is to confirm the Word preached.Why does it need confirmed?So people will believeAlso, that man that said, Mat 8:2 "Lord, if you will, thou can make me clean."He didn't have faith that Jesus would.

Mat 7:16-19 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good :20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.Mat 7:16-19 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?Logic, how do you think that these verses relate to the story under discussion? Diane

roadsign wrote:Logic, how do you think that these verses relate to the story under discussion? DianeWhy would Jesus heal 1/2 way if it wern't for a reason?Do not think that it is because of weak faith on the mans part.

Why would Jesus heal 1/2 way if it wern't for a reason? Do not think that it is because of weak faith on the mans part.Logic, This may be true, but I was just wondering how your scriptures about trees relate. Diane

Hi prayerbone...I purchased a message by David Wilkerson that he shared at a conference (not downloaded from SermonIndex) where he spoke about this. In the message, Brother Wilkerson seems to argue that the Lord did heal this man completely. Remember what the man said? After Jesus spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, Jesus asked him what he saw. The man said, "I see men as trees, walking" (Mark 10:24). The man stated that he saw men walking around like trees. Brother Wilkerson argued that the man was seeing completely -- but in the realm of the spirit. Was the man looking into the spirit and seeing what he should not? There are alot of spiritual comparisons about trees in the Word.Unfortunately, I let some friends watch the video, but they never returned it. Since I did not attend the conference, I am uncertain where it was preached.

It is like what Chris said. Jesus did it on purpose, but the man looking into the spirit and seeing what we should all see contrary to what Brother Wilkerson siad.I was relaiting that time the man saw men walk as trees to what we should all see.We should be looking for fruit and if it is good or bad.

Maybe a poetic reference to a groggy Christian who is disinterested in the lost. He sees trees walking around that could be thrown in the fire. But once he wakes up and his vision clears, he can begin to prune the trees to perfection.Just an idea.

J-bird wrote:

Logic wrote:It is like what Chris said. Jesus did it on purpose, but the man looking into the spirit and seeing what we should all see contrary to what Brother Wilkerson siad.I was relaiting that time the man saw men walk as trees to what we should all see.We should be looking for fruit and if it is good or bad.I remeber a discussion that took place on here were I said we should look for good fruit, and I gat slapped down for saying it, by a moderator. How do you get away with that Logic? :-P In ChristJ-bird

We should be looking for fruit and if it is good or bad.Perhaps you both ought to find scripture that supports this.Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. Rom 14:13Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. Joh 8:15-16

i think the words of john coltrane make a lot of sence here he once said "if no one came and saw me play i would still play" it was his life maybe thats the same with christians maybe some are only interested when there's trimmings,gifts,power etc.. This is a good parallel. I remember one day when God clearly instructed me to play a “concert” for him. I was reluctant because it seemed a bit crazy. Not only that, the music was hard, and not the kind of stuff I play in church. But he was really trying to get through the barriers of my thick skull that my entire life was to be lived out for him. He is my most important audience at all times. God does not “reward” us with fleshly gratifications, and that is what we must be willing to surrender. He, does however reward us with eternal blessings – primarily fellowship with him. so many answer's to one verse none wrong but maybe just what God wants u to gleam from it for that time..of course beside its fundamental truth.. This is what’s so awesome about God’s word. It can be very personal as well as apply to entire nations and even to eternal dimensions. Yet, I feel urged to insert one tiny bit of caution here: Suppose you write a letter about your thoughts and intentions, and then you pass copies around to all your friends. They read their letters and then discuss among themselves what the words could mean. They all have different ideas and are delighted with their creative imaginations. But….. just suppose …. No one comes back to you and asks YOU what YOU meant by those words. What if they really don’t care what you think? What if they end up painting a picture of you in their minds that doesn't resemble who you really are or what you meant by your words?As you say, there is fundamental truth. However, we human creatures have a tendency to tiptoe off the path and run after our creative imaginings.Keep looking up. Diane

Hi, Prayerbone, you present lots to great thoughts to consider! the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak? This reminds me of when the father brought his demon-possessed son to Jesus' disciples, who "could" not drive out the spirit. They father later told Jesus, "I asked your disciples to drive out the spirit, but they could not." Mk 9:18We, like the disciples, struggle with a flesh (natural disposition) that holds us back from radical faith. The father said to Jesus, "But if you can, take pity on us, and help us.""If you can? said Jesus, Everything is possible for him who believes" Immediately the boy's father exclaimed, "I do believe, help me overcome my unbelief" Mk 9:24Perhaps, he was saying, I know you can do it, Lord, just free me from my fleshly weakness to fully accept it. is it possible though Jesus prayed for him, part of the blind mans flesh clung to the world,trees in the garden etc..I think it is important to remember that it was this blind man's friends who brought him to Jesus. So, he was really riding on the back of THEIR faith. He still had to overcome his scepticism and doubt - before he could really SEE what Christ had done for him. He had to make his faith HIS OWN. Blurred vision, seeing what's not there, or seeing what we expect to see is a common human weakness. The flesh is weak. So are our eyes. Another point: It is easy to ride on the back of the faith of others, and THINK that we ourselves own that faith. But we will never fully see until we embrace and own our own faith - and walk in it. Again, I caution: It does not help to whip ourselves on this issue. Our Lord is compassionate with our struggle to overcome our unbelief. He draws us to himself through the circumstances of our lives. Even our failures help point us back to him - IF we are willing to see it that way. ... that our faith may grow and become OUR reality.Diane

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. Rom 14:13Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. Joh 8:15-16 In keeping with the theme of SEEING, it may be fitting to point out here that we are constantly judging (discerning), constantly evaluating what we see. That is not bad, but rather very necessary, and very biblical. The trouble is that when we have blurred and fuzzy vision, we will misjudge. We will not see what actually is there. That applies to the fruit of people – their words, actions, and behaviors. Spiritually bad eyesight will cause us to see fuzzy green trees when there may very well be good fruit. Or we may see what looks good, but be merely a thin veneer of self-righteousness and pride. We should be looking for fruit and if it is good or bad. Yes we should, and we sure need good eyesight for this. May God overcome our unbelief, so that we can see through the eyes of Christ. He said, “And yet if I judge, my judgment is true”And Christ always sees through the eyes of mercy, not condemnation. Christ always extends a way out – out of one’s bondage to sin or one's struggle with unbelief. “…but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way” It was the Pharisees’ unbelief that caused them to erect all kinds of stumblingblocks so that people could not SEE the things of Christ and what he could do for them. The blind man’s friends brought him to Jesus. The Pharisees never did. Instead they just destined the poor man to a life of perpetual blindness. That is what unbelief does. It cannot see hope and it cannot give hope to anyone. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's waySince this was posted by our mod in response to the "fruit" thought, it may be appropriate to make a practical application here: Do our posts erect up stumbling blocks, or do they pave a clear highways towards Christ - his love and mercy? Do our words foster faith or do they produce discouragement? May God help us to see others as Christ sees them. Diane

Hi, Andy, I appreciate your raw honesty, and no doubt God does too: people thinkin there saved etc and God says i dont know u wowee scary thought huh..if u think ur safe how do u discover ur not??.. If you think you’re safe, you AREN’T going to try to find out if it is true or not. If you are deceived and want to remain that way, you wouldn’t want to know the truth, because it wouldn’t seem right. how do u discover ur not Simple. Just ask. This is God’s job to tell you, and he is most capable of letting you know. After all he is NOT WILLING THAT ANY PERISH. There is a lot in the Bible that helps make it clear for us. Just read and read, and and ask and ask. And pray: Search me, O God, and know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts. See if there is any offensive way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting Ps. 199:23, 24And then trust that he will do his job - and can do it very well. He won't let you down. ur post really touched a raw spot with me!..i do live off other's faith.. I remember many years ago going on a missions trip to the remote jungle interior of Suriname to visit a mission work. There were many dangers along the way, huge, snakes, piranha in the water, spiders, disease, cannibals, etc. As long as the missionary was nearby I felt safe. I trusted in his faith - not mine. That experience opened my eyes to the fact that I was depending on a the faith of a lot of people. the word says tie a new donkey to a older one it teaches him, but there still (((both))) walkin.. I think God respects the reality that our faith must develop. And walking with those who have deep faith can help us move along in our journey. It also helps us see faith modelled to us. but ur right the danger is in livin through someone else faith but not walkin at the same time! There comes the time when mama bird pushes her wee ones out of the nest, and they have to learn to fly at some point before they hit the ground. It’s scary when our heavenly Father says to us: “It’s time to grow up, and he nudges us out of the nest”. We panic when our secure footing is pulled out from under us. But at some point we have to learn to spread out our wings and sail on the wind of the Spirit. cant live with em cant live without em This makes me chuckle. In all honesty, such a thought may expose our secret dependencies – ones we are not willing to let go. i so expected to have this bammmmmmmm..(as a young teenager)"wowee this will be great We may not feel any great wowee, esp while we are wide-eyed with terror, staring at the bottomless pit below us. But it is all an important part of the growing-up process – growing into mature faith. Anyway, we can’t depend on wowee’s to get us through in the long run. We can only depend on him. It is a quiet, stable faith that is unshakeable no matter what’s going on around us. everything i am not now", Where would you like to be, and what are you doing about it?Diane

I asked, "Where would you like to be, and what are you doing about it?"Prayerbone responded: stamping my feet sayin u do something fisrt b4 i do it..u make the bible interesting b4 i read it lol on and on..I hate to say this, but this does not seem like the response one would give who is hungry for answers. You will never find the treasure Christ has to offer unless you are willing to sink in with all you got. Are you? the threads not called GBI don't know what you mean by this. Prayerbone, I saw the thread you just posted, but I did not understand your reason for it. I wouldn't mind continuing dialogue on this thread, if you would do what you can to help me understand your messages more easily. Perhaps if you make a new line for each new sentence. Also it is important to me that you are very serious about developing a relationship with the Lord. Otherwise, I am no help to you whatsoever. And neither is anyone here. Wha'dya think? Diane