Wasting time with golf?

Here is a little quote from a piece by Leonard Ravenhill:An unprecedented tidal wave of commandment-breaking, God-defying, soul-destroying iniquity sweeps the ocean of human affairs. Never before have men in the masses sold their souls to the devil at such bargain prices. "There is none. . . that stirs up himself to take hold of Thee" (Isa. 64:7). What hell-born mesmerism holds them? How does the spell bind? Who brainwashed them? Why don't they wake and stir themselves? If the Church had something vital and victorious to offer, these men who choose golf clubs by day and night clubs by night, they might be drawn from these fleshpots. This is an hour in need of burning hearts, bursting lips and brimming eyes! If we were a tenth as spiritual as we think we are, our streets would be filled each Sunday with throngs of believers marching to Zion - with sacks on their bodies and ashes on their shaking heads, shaking at the calamity that has brought the Church to be the unlovely, unnerved, unproductive thing that she is!(End of quote)It is interesting that Ravenhill mentions golf. I have just been viewing a church's web site where the senior pastor talks about his love for golf.In brochures that advertise Christian conferences, it is common now to give a small profile of each speaker, and it is now also oh so common for those speakers to talk in their profiles about how much they love their worldly pastimes - how much they love their sports, or the movies, or reading some particular type of worldly fiction books.This puts me off instantly and saddens me immensely. Why is it that the main speakers at Christian conferences have to tell how much they love the pursuits of the world in order to try to attract us to their conferences?Why is it that pastors of churches have to tell us their personal likes for worldly pastimes?Where is a Christian minister who will boldly assert the opposite - that his great blessing from God is that he has been empowered to have no interest in the ordinary worldly pursuits that most people have?As Galatians 6: 14 says (NIV):May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.I'm tired of pastors who try to attract us to their ministries by bragging about how they love the world.Let us all stand up with the apostle Paul and declare to the world "I am crucified to the world."God bless you all at Sermon Index.

Hi teamtoucan, how are you?Seeing how we soldiers of the Cross are engaged in such an epoch War of the Ages, called upon with our lives and fortunes and futures to be wholly and inseperably and everlastingly spent upon nothing less than the sacred Honor and Name of Almighty God and the destiny of the souls of men; seeing all this I suppose it is reasonable for us to wonder if such pastimes are worthy of much of our energies and attention.One of our ancient allies said this And Uriah said unto David, The ark, and Israel, and Judah, abide in tents; and my lord Joab, and the servants of my lord, are encamped in the open fields; shall I then go into mine house, to eat and to drink, and to lie with my wife? as thou livest, and as thy soul liveth, I will not do this thing.Peace be with you

is it wordly to have fun?

God bless this morning after Easter to you all.This is teamtoucan's wife in response to the question along the lines of "is it worldly to have fun?"My perception is this: That God's work must be done with every particle of our being! The quote in the banner above by Henry Martyn is a wonderful example for us. Paul says in 2 Cori 12:15 "I will gladly spend myself and all I have for your spiritual good" (NLT). Jesus too is our supreme example.When Jesus body was to be taken down from the cross, Pilot was so surprised that Jesus had died so quickly. We are not surprised however, because we know that for the previous weeks Jesus spent nights in prayer and days teaching in the temple. The night before He was betrayed He spent with his disciples, then followed it up with another night of prayer. Jesus must have been so physically exhausted from lack of sleep that He was already “spent”, but Jesus knew it would not be physical endurance that would see Him through to the cross, but spiritual.Now, I do see importance of recuperation time! Jesus again is our example. Jesus wanted to take His disciples away from the crowds for a time of recuperation too. (Mark 6:31)The Church of Satan has as its 8th principle this: Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification.Statement number 1 is: Satan represents indulgence, instead of abstinence.Time to relax is necessary ~ however I would suggest careful self examination for any traces of self indulgence before embarking.May the Lord help us in this very tricky area.BTW, “fun” is not to be mistaken for self indulgence, making fun at others, or entering into coarse joking or language(Ephesians 5:4). We smile and laugh lots! God provides much entertainment in His natural world. For example, we observe the behaviours of His birds and other animals and we have plenty of chuckles, even as we are doing our Lord’s work.For Jesus,Misty (Sorry this post got put into the wrong place previosuly)

Hi Combat_Chuck,Re:Combat_Chuck wrote:is it worldly to have fun?Response:It certainly can be. One of the sad things about churches these days is their preoccupation with making church "fun".We think that because we live in a culture obsessed with entertainment that church also has to be an entertainment.The message of salvation is a desperately serious message. We need to weigh up every one of our activities, including recuperation activities, as to whether they fit in with our life purpose: To live always and only for the glory of God.As 1st Corinthians 10:31 says:So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God."Fun" is an aspect of childhood. As people become mature, we are to leave "fun" behind, and to learn instead to go on and do our "duty".We need to be constantly aware that we are in a spiritual war, as per your excellent quote from CT Stud:Some wish to live within the sound Of Church or Chapel Bell. I want to run a rescue shop within a yard of Hell.That's the spirit of the godly war we are engaged in.Here's another bit from Leonard Ravenhill where he again mentions golf:Our words reflect what's in our hearts. If a man loves sports, he talks sports. If he loves money, he talks money. If he loves art, he talks art. I marvel at the slackness of speech among Christians and at how often preachers are guilty of gross exaggerations in their reports about their meetings, and at how carelessly they slander others. I was at a ministers' conference some years ago and we drove back and forth in packed buses all week between the hotel and the conference center. But never once among all those ministers was the conversation about God or holiness or the coming of Jesus. It was sports, or golf handicaps, or how big their Sunday School was. It was just senseless chatter even among preachers. But preachers aren't the only ones guilty of conversation which is unprofitable and unedifying.Christianity is a desperately serious business.God bless,Brian Clack

Here is another thought by Mrs teamtoucan =)When I go to work, I work for 8 hours and my boss sees fit to give me a half hour break during this time. As a Christian, what portion of my Christian life do I spend saving the lost, doing my duty as a Christian? There is a place for recuperation here, and no doubt as I rest side by side with my DH we have a laugh together as we often do. But these times are to be in their rightful proportion to the work we are accomplishing.If a fireman was to sit at his work station while a fire blazed in his town he would be charged guilty with the deaths of those he was supposed to save.As a Christian, how will I be found? Will I have done my duty in saving those from the fire that never burns?Just a thought...For Jesus,Misty :-)

Hi YeshuaIsMyGd,Thanks very much for your reply. You say:If someone who is a Christian isn't being convicted by something, your not supposed to be the role of the Holy Spirit for them. What do you think then of the preaching of Leonard Ravenhill, where he says things like:If the Church had something vital and victorious to offer, these men who choose golf clubs by day and night clubs by night, they might be drawn from these fleshpots. Is he going too far because he is implying that there is something perhaps questionable about golf clubs and night clubs? And the question arises: How does the Holy Spirit convict people? My contention: He does it primarily through people preaching.And here is a comment by one of the main preachers at the Welsh Revival of 1859:Preach pointedly and rousingly - aiming at the conscience each time telling the people their sins to their faces caring nothing about the good or bad opinion of men. What do you make of that? Is "telling people their sins to their faces" taking over the role of the Holy Spirit?Once again, thanks for your post.Brian

hi, bro. ravenhill had a nice set of golf clubs although a bit rusty.jimp

This is an interesting topic to me. I had three thoughts I wanted to share:#1: I do believe that we are allowed some pleasures in this life. The problem is when pleasures become hobbies that consume all of our thoughts and motivations. This is not what the Christian should look like. I enjoye reading fantasy fiction books, but this does not define who I am, it's one thing I enjoy every so often. #2: Something I think a lot about, though, is just how Jesus chose to use His free time. It doesn't seem like Jesus considered working hard as something that earned credits towards doing whatever he wanted. It doesn't seem, from the gospels, like Jesus had the mentality, "You know guys, it's been a hard week. How about we just take the weekend off, and we'll meet up on Monday." Then they all go shopping or whatever. Jesus really seemed to enjoy taking time out to pray pray pray. And that's really what rejuvinated (spelling?) Him.#3: Some people think that we should only all the time be preoccupied with things that are specifically Christian - going to church, being in some fellowship, reading the Bible, etc. But I think hobbies can be a benefit because it gives you a place where you can practice your Christianity around others. If you like reading - getting involved in a reader's club, where you meet once a month or whatever, gives you a door into people's lives where you can be a witness. Golf can be a great thing, because there is a lot of talking that goes a long with it. If you meet with some guys from work to play golf every couple of weeks, you'll really get to know them and have a door into their lives to speak truth. If we really seek to "do all things to the glory of God,", whether we eat, drink, play gold, read, or whatever, we'll find that God is using the uniqueness of our talents and gifts to immerse that part of our culture for Christ. And that should be our focus, not the love for these things. At least, that's how I see it.

Hello...Are activities like golf, baseball or basketball time-wasters? They can be. Some people almost live to participate in sports. I know some guys that eat, drink and sleep a particular sport (or usually, watching a particular sport). They talk about it all of the time. For them, sports have become an unhealthy obsession. On the other hand, your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. With all of the problems with obesity in the word today -- shouldn't we take care of our bodies? Paul stated "For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come" (I Timothy 4:8). We should remember that Paul stated this at a time when nearly EVERYONE was forced to walk nearly EVERYWHERE that they went. The most exercise that many people get nowadays is the walking distance from the house to the car. We sit at work, we sit in class, we sit at the computer, we sit on the pews, and we sit at home. I like to take walks. I also like to run. My university has a nice track, and I can run in the early evening with hardly a soul around. However, I am mostly attracted to taking walks in nature in order to pray. Yet ever-so-often, I like to participate in a sport. But sports are not an idol in my heart. I see them as being a little helpful -- and fun at the same time. Regardless of which sport that you participate, there is usually a goal (or prize) awaiting the victor. Whether this is a pat on the back, being under par, or an actual trophy -- sports help us to concentrate on finishing what we have begun. Even Paul commended us to compete as to obtain (win) the prize when comparing our walk with Christ as a race (I Corinthians 9:24).I suppose that it would helpful for many individuals to stop sitting and at least start walking. I was reading a study about obesity recently. The article stated that some of the obesity problem is not to be blamed on gluttony -- but on lack of exercise. Yes, there is a problem with "junk" food in society. But we are a much less active society than those just fifty years ago. I spoke with a classmate the other day. He told me that he served God wholeheartedly and sincerely as a child. But in high school, he was slowly sucked into a worldly lifestyle (particularly due to his lust for friends and girls). Now, he says that he is miserable. He knows that he is out-of-fellowship with God -- and he has become quite cynicle about the conduct and apparent hypocrisy of believers. He laughs that his pastor is 100 pounds over weight. "Do you think he fasts?" he mockingly asked. I've done my best to not make excuses for anyone elses behavior -- but to let him know that he must work out his own salvation "with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12). But I couldn't help but notice that even our bodies are being read by the world. Not only do the people of this world notice our conduct -- but they notice our lifestyles as well.Please don't mistake this as a criticism for overweight believers. There are some individuals that are unable to lose weight for purposes other than diet and lifestyle neglect. But perhaps if we were to take better care of our bodies, we can "glorify God" with such. I don't play golf. But the sport of golf is good in that it requires much walking and joint movement. But there are some excellent websites that recommend certain sports and exercises for a variety of physical conditions or limitations. :-)

I have asked this question a number of times here but really have never received an answer it's always been avoided for some reason.If we are responsible for the lost sheep "which we as Christians are" and the lost sheep are in the Bars on the Golf Course or where ever, how are we supposed to reach them without physically going to these places to witness to them? Pastors can go to the prisons to minister were the worst of the worst are, but yet we are condemned if we go into the Bars and onto the Golf Courses, this is why I do not read a lot of Pastors Books because "most" books are opinions and not completely Biblical, or the scriptures in these books are sanded down and molded to fit the Authors opinions, or even worse justify their opinions and this is why I stick totally to the complete truth "The Word Of God"

KRISPY....I'm there with ya.I wasnt raised in a christian home. My dad taught me his idol....deer hunting! After I got saved the Lord really dealt with me about deer hunting. He was dealing with my affections. Over the years its been difficult. Then I became a really good competive archery shooter....I traveled to diffrent states to compete. God dealt with me there to. I shared Jesus with these guys I shot with...I gave out tracts. But it takes hours upon hours of practice to become a good shooter. I was ranked high...but my devotioanl life sank to.So Stopped shooting all together. I wanted God first! Yet at the same time I'm not around those guys anymore? There is a 'Christian bowhunters association'. I still hunt but the time hunting is not sport its just like devotions because of the supreme stillness in the woods.I guess over all theres a balance to everything we do...we have to check our affections at all times...making sure our devotion to Christ isnt drifting. My mother in-law who is a pastors wife for over 30 years said to me once....if I stop hunting then I've lost that time with my dad (non believer) to be a witness to him. As a man thinks in his heart so is he....If I'm thinking about golf or hunting or food all the time then there is something wrong.

I have only played gold twice Dom

We do all sorts of rediculous programs in order to attract the world to come in to our churches. This is not what the Great Commission was! Jesus said GO!.Amen, brother! We need to go where the lost are - our maybe just love the ones God puts in our path We need to invest our lives in others rather than OUR religious activity. And yes, you can do a lot of sharing on the golf course. I encourage everyone reading this who is even remotely interested in golf to skip church next Sunday morning *gasp* and go play golf... and be a witness for Christ to someone out on the course. Maybe even your caddy. Who knows? Maybe you can lead your caddy to the Lord next Sunday morning.May I add one thought to this: Ask God first. After all, we are to be doing everything whether inside a church building or outside as directed by our Master. If golf is our idol, then very possibly God may call us away from it until it is surrendered. That happened to Devern Fromke. He loved golf. God told him to give all his golf equipment away. Then after a time, God let him have it back - because it was no longer an idol to him. Diane

Hi Dianne,Re:We need to go where the lost are I agree 100%!!!!!!And when we go where they are, we have to be certain that the example we provide to the lost is a 100% godly example. It is not just our words that are a witness. It is also our lifestyle - how we choose to spend our time and our money.Organisations like Gospel for Asia (KP Yohannan, the leader of GFA, was featuring recently on the home page of Sermon Index) are crying out for money to supply Bibles, bicycles, food, clothing and so on for all their missionaries in India and many other parts of Asia.Our witness has to be a witness that demonstrates that we put God's Kingdom above earthly pleasure.How is it justifiable to spend all that money on golf clubs, green fees and so on, when our spiritual brothers and sisters in other countries are crying out for Bibles to read. An organization called Bible League estimates that 500,000,000 people in the world right now are waiting for the supply of a Bible. In 2005, the Bible League provided 17,256,565 Scriptures to those seeking God's Word. But the demand is far greater than they are able to supply. They need funds to print millions of Bibles. In light of that, how can we justify spending money on ourselves for luxuries?Our witness to unbelievers has to be more than just words - it has to be backed up with actions. And that means we need to demonstrate with our lifestyles that we have given up on the pursuits of worldly pleasures. If we want to witness to people there are plenty of opportunities. For example, instead of going to the movies on a Friday night or on Saturday night, where we spend God's money wasting God's time watching what God hates, how about we use the time and the money instead to buy tracts and go to the nearest shopping centre and hand out tracts?There is a sermon by Charles Finney called “Doubtful Actions Are Sinful”. In it he says:Take the case of balls [meaning dances – in our day meaning night clubs], of novel reading, and other methods of wasting time. Is this God's way to spend your lives? Can you say you have no doubt of it? (End of quote)Our witness has to be with a lifestyle that is consistent with the principle “I have been crucified to the world, and the world to me.”God bless, and thank-you everyone for your comments.Brian Clack

Organisations like Gospel for Asia I like this organization because it supports indigenous people. That is far less costly than sending westerners. Also who better than their own people to pastor them. Yet God calls westerners to go. Our witness has to be a witness that demonstrates that we put God's Kingdom above earthly pleasure. Absolutely! And yet, we are also called to be shrewd, just like Jesus was. Think of his wine-making miracle. How more absurd could one be! Yet, he didn’t want the host of the wedding to be embarrassed. He was really valuing the person - doing something very significant on his behalf, and the wine was really secondary. To us it seems indulgent. Sometimes serving God seems indulgent and wasteful. Think of the wastefulness of the women who poured a bottle of perfume on Jesus. But the woman’s testimony still resonates with us today, just as Christ prophesied. We must be willing to let go of all our wealth. Our possessions are not ours, neither is our time or our abilities. All should be given to our Lord. He may call us to do something that is totally irrational to us, that seems like such a waste. And, like Christ, we may be accused of being a ‘glutton and wine-bibber” .While golf may be an expensive sport, is it still too expensive if God calls us to join in along side of a friend in order to build a relationship of trust with him that fosters the expression of Christ? Some “methods” may be more costly, time and money wise than handing out tracts to strangers, but it may be what Christ calls us to, and it may be far more effective - because HE is in it. We need to get on their turf, see life through THEIR eyes, walk in THEIR moccasins, or we might just end up dumping our religion them in a very ineffective way (yet believe we are doing what God called us).Diane

We talk about money and spending for golf or othere things...Someone says we will blow the money if its not for bibles or the hungry? God is not limited though by OUR billfold. If God gives us money to share Christ to someone...how can we put a limit of or how much it should cost?God can put a check in our mail box the next day to replace and to do it again for Him. ITs HIS MONEY anyway. Hey Krisp...Thank you for your post!!

KrispyKrittr wrote:How many here would feel a tinge of guilt if they went golfing with a non-believing friend (and lived in Christ in front of him) on Sunday morning instead of going to church? KrispyHey from some of the things I have seen said about the Church of Today around here you might be better off out on the Golf course witnessing. :-(

How many here would feel a tinge of guilt if they went golfing with a non-believing friend (and lived in Christ in front of him) on Sunday morning instead of going to church? Where would that guilt come from? Would it come from God for missing a Sunday morning church service, or would it come from our fear and insecurity? Fear of what others in church might say if they found out... or insecurity that God might make something bad happen to you because you golfed instead of warmed a pew?Krispy, this is a heavy! You are touching the conscience.... the core of motives. Our motive for attending church may quite possibly be - just as you say - because we have put our trust in our habits, traditions, man, man's approval, or how man has programmed our conscience. I lived like that for years - until God revealed my faulty motives - in HIS time. Just because something feels right doesn't mean it is, and vice versa. Going to church can sometimes be sin.... how about that!May God shed light on our hearts and expose all that holds us back from trusting and serving him. Diane

Can you still get into Heaven if you don't go to Church? Man if someone came in here and just read a few threads about how good and sinless you have to live to get into Heaven they might just decide to continue to stay were they are. Going to church is a good thing. But if you think that just going to church is good enough to earn your way to heaven, take a look at Romans 3:27 and Ephesians 2:8. These passages are clear that nothing we can do on earth (like trying to go to church to gain merit with God) can make us righteous in His never-failing sight.Jesus had strong words for the Pharisees of His day. They tried to merit favor with God by acting religious. But Jesus called them "a brood of vipers".The only way to get to Heaven is to put our faith in Jesus Christ. Why is Jesus so important? """"""He is the only one who lived on earth a sinless life"""""". As fully God and fully man, he was tempted as we are yet was without sin."For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works, so that no one can boast." Good works: You always give donations to the less unfortunate, and you always help out and get involved in volunteer programs. However, God does not weigh our good (good works) versus our bad (sin) on a balance scale, to decide weither or not we go to heaven or hell. We cannot outweight out our bad (sin) by doing more good (good works). “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)

Most of you seem to be arguing in favour of what I would call an easy-going and relaxed kind of Christianity, that does not look much different from your average non-believer.I wonder what you would make of this quote from Charles Finney:From Charles Finney’s book on Revival, Lecture 9 Means to be Used with Sinners; Regarding the necessity of self-denial, humility, and heavenly-mindedness: Christians ought to show, by their own example, what the religious walk is which is expected of men. That is the most powerful preaching [i.e., witnessing], after all, and the most likely to have influence on the impenitent, which shows them the great difference between themselves and Christians. Many people seem to think they can make men fall in with religion best by bringing religion down to their standard. As if the nearer you bring religion to the world, the more likely the world will be to embrace it. Now all this is as wide as the poles are asunder from the true philosophy about making Christians. But it is always the policy of carnal followers of Christianity. And they think they are displaying wonderful rationality, and prudence, by taking so much pains not to scare people at the mighty strictness and holiness of the Gospel. They argue that if you exhibit religion to mankind as requiring such a great change in their manner of life, such innovations upon their habits, such a separation from their old associates, why, you will drive them all away. This seems plausible at first sight. But it is not true. Let followers of Christianity live in this lax and easy way, and sinners say: "Why, I do not see but I am about right, or at least so near right that it is impossible God should send me to hell only for the difference between me and these followers of Christianity. It is true, they do a little more than I do; they go to the Communion table, and pray in their families, and a few suchlike little things, but these details cannot make any such great difference as between heaven and hell." No, the true way is, to exhibit religion and the world in strong contrast, or you can never make sinners feel the necessity of a change. Until the necessity of this fundamental change is embodied and held forth in strong light, by example [of how you live], how can you make men believe they are going to be sent to hell if they are not wholly transformed in heart and life?(End of quote)God bless,Brian

YeshuaIsMyGd wrote:Golf doesn't cost that much....fyi. It costs probly 1/5 of what your computer costs. Gezz! Maybe you should sell your computer ;-) We are all to fulfill the call that God has on our own lives. I can't do the work for someone else and neither can they do my work. Why? cause the right hand and the left hand do things backwards. :-P You have great thoughts Krispy.Brother, that's a wonderful post and it speaks truth to the core especially this statement "We are all to fulfill the call that God has on our own lives". after all who is running our lives Man or God? and who would the God "you" serve be wanting "you" to listen to all man's suggestions here? or the spirit of God within you? me I am looking to the Holy Spirit to lead me even if it's to the bars, golf course, streets, etc. and that "should" be a personal thing between you and the Holy Spirit and when "man" interferes with what he thinks you should be doing it really just causes confusion in your walk, the Holy Spirit will never confuse you he will lead you in the direction that Jesus wants you to go. The hardest thing as a Christian that I had to get over way back when I got saved was that God has a plan for each of us individually and that no one supposed to be like me do the things I do, and that God has a very individual plan for each of us and never, never force "your" life's plan on anyone.

teamtoucan wrote:Most of you seem to be arguing in favour of what I would call an easy-going and relaxed kind of Christianity, that does not look much different from your average non-believer.BrianWell Brian God Bless you Brother, but what if 'God" has led us to do certain things that to you might consider to be a relaxed kind of Christianity? should we go ahead and listen to you and or should we listen to the Holy Spirit within us? Not everyone is put here for the same reason if so God would not need but one of us, he need all kinds to go to all places to do works that you and I will never understand or even understand why, just remember "his" ways are not our "ways" and "his" thoughts are not "our" thoughts.We must all spend more time looking for the lost sheep and let the saved that had been called by God already walk the walk God has for them.

teamtoucan (Misty) wrote:The Church of Satan has as its 8th principle this: Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification.Statement number 1 is: Satan represents indulgence, instead of abstinence.You need to be careful about quoting Anton LaVey as a means of proving a point. After all, if we were to reverse all of his statements, then we'd have to reverse number 3 - "Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit" - thereby valuing hypocracy and "defiled wisdom". Not to mention the fact if we were to reverse his "Eleven Basic Rules of the Earth", we'd have to burden everyone with our problems (#2), disrepect people in their own homes (#3), be careless as to who we make sexual advances to (#5), steal (#6), complain (#8), harm children (#9), and midlessly slaughter animals (#10). Be careful of trying to paint LeVeyan satanism and satanists with tabloid steriotypes like "baby eating, cat killers". The insideous evil of satanism is that by worldy standards they are impecibly moral and upright, and yet fall short of God's glory by defining their own righteousness apart from Him.Time to relax is necessary ~ however I would suggest careful self examination for any traces of self indulgence before embarking.May the Lord help us in this very tricky area.BTW, “fun” is not to be mistaken for self indulgence, making fun at others, or entering into coarse joking or language(Ephesians 5:4). We smile and laugh lots! God provides much entertainment in His natural world. For example, we observe the behaviours of His birds and other animals and we have plenty of chuckles, even as we are doing our Lord’s work.I think that these statements bring much wisdom to the issue at hand. Ravenhill was convinced that "entertainment is the devil's counterfeigt for joy". To be honest, oftentimes I must ask myself if my postings on forums and conversations with believers and sinners alike are actually edifying or just "entertaining distractions" from true service to Him. Rob Wurtz made a comment in the Betrayal of the Ages thread that "reasonable service" in Rom 12:1 could be better understood as "logical worship" in light of everything that Paul had written in the first 11 chapters. In other words, our life is not our own and we should live like we believe it.We must be careful of becoming overworked. By overworked, I don't mean working too hard as much as getting bogged down with "seemingly good" distractions. A friend of mine was involved in a youth outreach organisation in Australia called Youth Alive, but pulled out due to the massive amount of time invested into events that consist of "saving" all the church kids again, with watered down gospel preaching and "rock concert" entertainment. Much of our "Christian service" is more of a time filling activity to create the illusion that we are serving God, when we are really tying up the time of God's labourers who are few already.Leisure time is important, but perhaps this should be filled with fellowship and quiet reflection rather than sports and movies. Incidently, playing golf could be a good means of facilitating these things.In His grip.

Hi Mr Bill,Thanks for your comment.let the saved that had been called by God already walk the walk God has for them.That certainly sounds reasonable, however, this web site focuses a lot on revival. Revival is something that starts inside the church. Revival happens when God confronts us Christians with our sins. Revival results first in Christians devoting themselves fully to God, instead of being only half devoted to God and wasting the other half of their lives on their own pleasures.As I quoted in an earlier post about Mr Humphrey Jones who was a main preacher in the Welsh revival of 1859, he advised that in giving sermons the preacher must "tell the people their sins to their faces".First in revival comes prayer - a burden for prayer for revival that Christians will wake up. In answer to those prayers come preachers who are prepared to do what people like Humphrey Jones did: "tell them [the Christians] their sins to their faces".That means facing up to the fact that many Christians in fact do not walk the walk God has for them; they only think they do.God bless,Brian

Hi Geraldine,Thanks for your very thoughtful and sincere comments.Firstly I think what your husband is doing with the kids sounds good. Kids do need to have fun. I also think the example from Ray Comfort is very good.The point I'm trying to get at is this: that as adults, (not so much as kids), we need to understand that we are in Christian warfare, and that a strong focus of what he have to do is to be a Godly example to others in how we live our lives. We must show by how we live that we believe that time really is scarce, that life is short, and that we Christians are fully dedicated to living for the honour of God all our lives. That really does mean that we will give up doing things that in themselves have nothing wrong with them, but we will nevertheless give them up because:1. We wish to set a squeaky clean example to all people, whether believers or non-believers, of how a Christian should live;2. We want to maximize our time in the serious service of God.Our culture is a culture that is overly focussed on fun-for-self and pleasure-for-self and entertainment-for-self.We Christians need to cut across that culture, not blend in with it.The way to save the world is by being different from it, not like it.Here's an interesting quote from William Booth, who was the founder of the Salvation Army, which in its early days was a very powerful and holy force for God. (Sadly, the fire has mostly gone out of the Salvation Army these days. May God raise up a new Salvation Army.)Quote:My life has been a continual fight, ever since, some 60 years ago, I turned my back on a world of ease and pleasure for the honour of my Heavenly King and for the salvation of the lost.William BoothNovember 2, 1905God bless, and thanks for your thoughtful comments.Brian

Hi Aaron,Thanks for your thoughtful comments.

Leisure time is important, but perhaps this should be filled with fellowship and quiet reflection rather than sports and movies.I agree 110%. I'd add that perhaps we should call it recuperation time, rather than leisure time, since leisure has the idea of doing things just to please ourselves, which is not the godly way. The godly way is "whether we eat or drink, do it all to the glory of God". And in addition to fellowship I'd add prayer and Bible study. Serious prayer - because serious prayer takes lots of time, and serious Bible study - because that takes lots of time too.Re movies, I would suggest that Christians should avoid movies almost entirely (whether in a cinema or at home on TV). Movies are today’s equivalent of 100 years ago's novel and plays, and look at what Catherine Booth (Co-founder of the Salvation Army) had to say about worldly entertainments, including reading novels:(This quote is from a sermon she preached in 1879, and she was a very no-nonsense preacher, telling the people their sins to their faces):Quote:Has every spark of real enthusiasm in religion gone out, that when Christians want to find INTEREST and ENJOYMENT, they must seek it in themes and things peculiarly belonging to the god of this world [Satan], and his servants? Has it come to pass that Christians have so little confidence in the God of the Bible, and the religion of Jesus, that they must seek an alliance between Christ and the world in order to interest their children and save them from open reckless living and vice? If so, how does this reflect on themselves? What sort of training [of children] does it imply? Have they trained their sons and daughters so truly in the spirit of the world, under the appearance of a being Christian, that nothing but the most sensuous amusements of worldlings will satisfy them? Has it come to pass that the children of CHRISTIANS must dress like prostitutes, -- dance, sing songs, read novels, [in our day, watch movies, watch TV shows], attend concerts, [listen to secular CDs, listen to secular radio stations] where worldly and even comic songs are sung, evoking uproarious laughter and coarse joking? And all this for their amusement, their parents, and even ministers, looking on, and striving by the most blind and wicked perversion of the word of God, to justify their worldliness and ease their consciences? ALAS, IT HAS COME TO THIS! "Oh, that my head were a spring of water and my eyes a fountain of tears! I would weep day and night for the slain of my people." (Jer 9. 1.)(End of quote).Thanks for your thoughtful reply, and God bless,Brian

Krispy wrote: Roadsign... this is what God is dealing with me about. Why do I do what I do? Is it for the approval of others? Why do I come here and post the things I post? Is it to edify others? Really? Do I love Jesus? Do I really love His people? What does it mean to love Jesus? Why do I study my Bible and mark it all up with pens and hi-lighters? Is it because I want to know Him more, or to impress my kids when I'm dead and they inherit my old Bibles? Aaah – those pesty why’s”! They strip us down to the core. They expose our game playing and faulty desires. I too love to study and mark up my Bible. In fact, there is a part of me that wishes to do nothing else – to be a recluse –abandon my worldly involvements (which often seem like a waste of time) and just soak in God and his word. Yet, God calls me to responsibility in the nitty-gritty senseless golf games of life – because that is where the people are. Actually anything beneficial, like bible reading can lose its pure motive – even a more subtle motive than, as you mentioned, desiring to leave a “godly” legacy for our kids. It can become an escape, or it can be a desire to earn our way to God – a desire to comb the bible for more rules to follow while remaining in charge of our lives. Even prayer can be a selfish way to pull the divine “strings”. We need to re-examine everything we do. I think if we're honest we'll find out that our motives are not as honorable as we'd like to think. I insert a slight rephrasing of this: We need to permit God to expose our hidden motives... for if we try to do it on our own, we become obsessive navel-gazers, yet fail to see our core sinful motives - our self-centeredness. Diane