DO NOT RESPOND - unless you have victory over sin!

Hello,I am posting this question to all who can answer it from experience. How do I get victory? Please DO NOT RESPOND if you have not found victory in your daily walk. I am not looking for a theory about victory, im not looking for a sermon about victory, im not looking for an opinion about victory. I would like an answer from someone who has found their victory in Him, and can give me a clear explanation of how they came to it.Just to make things clear, this is my definition of victory:-Having a consistent walk in Him without high high's and low lows, but consistently walking with Him daily-Not falling to the same sins you have struggled with for a long time, but finding power to overcome temptations when they come-having the fruits of LOVE, JOY, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness and temperence in their daily life. -walking in humility-walking with joy (not a miserable, beating yourself out of sin type of 'victory'... or fear of not being saved 'victory'... or fear going to hell 'victory' even I have had that and it doesnt last for more than a few montths and it isnt what Jesus has called us to!)-walking in Him, with Him, for Him, daily doing His will in a current, real relationship. I would like to re-emphasize the point, DO NOT RESPOND unless you have found this out and have lived it out in your practical, daily life for a long time (not just a couple of weeks or months). I am not looking for a theory. Thank you,Love,Joe

JFEdgar,I have been truly saved, born again for the past 17 years. I hear your heart yearning in your question. My boast is in our Lord Jesus Christ, not in anything I've attained. Pertaining to all the things on your list, I can testify of the Lord's grace has been sufficient to sustain me in Him, for His glory. I cannot give you a computer print out step A, step B, step C so on HOW it happened; I just know it did. Perhaps that is not satisfying to you, but I can at least mark out a few things that I know for sure have been key contributors to this life. I believe the Lord grants us the "Promised Land" little by little, but it is one of ever increasing glory.First, victory is not an "it" nor is it a "thing" that God gives you as a gift separate from the giver. Victory is a Person--Jesus. (I'm not going to develop the theology on that one here). I want to be practical, but I cannot separate it from God's revelation from His Word; they go hand-in-hand. But in brief, these things have become real to me and God has breathed life into what He has shown me.1. Being filled with the Spirit is not a one-time thing. About 3 years ago John 7:37-39 became very real about my need to be ever thirsty for Living Waters and asking my Father for Him (the Holy Spirit). My "eyesight" into His Word greatly increased and an increasing awareness of His presence.2. A daily reflection on what Jesus has done for me. Every day has a place where I remember what Christ did for me on the cross. I never get tired going over passages about His loving and giving Himself for me. It humbles any pride I have that I'm somebody. I not only see how free I am from sin because of Jesus' finished work; His grace truly has flowed to take full possession. It's all of Him.3. Really understanding the DIFFERENCE between the new covenant and the old covenant. Spiritual perfection only comes through not only knowing this, and applying this, but seeing Jesus Christ as my mediator and surety. A lot of my continual spiritual defeat (pride especially) was because I was mixing up old and new covenant life (out of ignorance). Brother Zac Poonen was instrumental in teaching me plainly, and I have sought the Lord in earnest to lay hold of Jesus--and He has not disappointed me at all.--These next ones are fairly recent developments, but nonetheless real and I speak from experience not theory---4. Seeking to see Jesus Himself in Scripture, not focusing on anything else. When the Lord showed me what it meant for Him to be my Bright and Morning Star (Rev. 22:16) in connection with 2 Pet 1 and Mount of Transfiguration, it radically altered my study of the Bible. It didn't realize my focus was hazy, not clearly seeking the Lord Himself but other things (like victory, or blessing, or power for service, etc.). When I depend as a little child upon the Holy Spirit to show me Jesus in Scripture, the same Holy Spirit has been transforming me from glory to glory (2 Cor. 3:18). Meditation on the Lord Jesus all the day long has become very easy.5. Jesus is my SUBSTITUTE for LIFE not just for sins. I've never really understood what Paul meant in Gal. 2:20 (It is no longer I that live but Christ that lives in me). I've read it, sung it, taught it probably a hundred times, but the awesome reality of it was hidden from my daily experience. I am walking in the newness of life (Rom. 6:4) not because I can do it, but because Jesus (having been raised from the dead) now does it perfectly. And when I am in Him, He is my substitute for life, and I too can walk in the newness of life. The same goes for serving in the newness of the Spirit (Rom. 7:6). May the Lord open your eyes to see it and apprehend Him as your perfect substitute for living."Consider what I say; and the Lord give you understanding in all things." Only God can reveal Himself. I can testify, but He must reveal Himself. He will; keep seeking Him with your whole heart; you will find HIM, and in Him is your victory.Ken

JFEdgar,I think you have received your answer in these two posts and I believe I have as well. I have been wanting victory over sin in my life also. And I have come to realize victory is not something that just happens but it must come from the battle. We cannot be victorious without a battle. I have learned that I cannot develop self control in my flesh. I must depend on the Holy Spirit and trust that he is able to keep me without sin. I just never hated sin enough or I would rationalize it to myself. I am at a point in my walk where I am tired of banging my head against a wall, "repenting" of the same sins all the time. I don't want to be a hypocrite any longer. I want to produce fruit in keeping with repentance. The reason I am saying this is because the word says confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so you may be healed.I am through with pretending I have it all together when I don't. Isn't that what hypocrite translates to is "pretender"? For me the most convicting verse in the bible is Hebrews 10:26, If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have gained knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left.I will keep you in my prayers.Murray

Dear JF, Good testimonies indeed. I found out that my victory is in the shed blood, and it's wonder working power. I first of all accepted the biblical fact that all my righteousness is in Him, and He has imputed it to me, when I placed my faith in Him. Even with that, there was always me, the old flesh to deal with. Then I began to hear the message about how only God could take from me what was not of Him. Everybody has a secret weakness, some not so secret. Others live in pretense well, and we don't realize they have one. What I have may not be what you have, but we all have something, some sin that we are ashamed of, yet know we are powerless over it. I was blessed by being encouraged to take "it" to God and ask Him to take if from me. Well, the weakness is still there, but it does not rule my life or have dominion over me any longer. God has given me a new desire, a desire to be His bond servant. He has accepted my faith in Him and changed my heart. What do I do when I find myself weak? I find He is strong. When I have nothing else to lean on, I know that I have favor with God that is unmerited. I didn't do anything to deserve it, He just chooses to give it to me. Jesus is my all in all. He is the air I breathe. I desire to give Him thanks and praise in all I say and do. Even when I go to the bathroom, I thank Him that my bodily functions work normally, and that my body is disease free. Glory to God. See, my life has been swallowed up in His life, immersed and hidden in Him. It is no longer I who live, but He Who lives in me. Joe, you will never be strong enough, never learn enough, never hope enough, in your own abilities. Christianity is distinct from all other religious practices. It relies on God's power and sacrifice instead of man's works, efforts, and abilities. When I am weak, His strentgh is made perfect. He has done what I fell way short of in my own efforts. My feet are on the Rock of my salvation, Jesus Christ. I stand complete in Him, saved to the uttermost, a joint heir with Him. All that He has, I have. How? By faith in His victory at calvary. I dont' have to do, I am, because He says so, and I have a witness in my heart to tell me it is true. The witness? Why His Holy Spirit alive in me, ever taking me closer God. My wife and I were at a conference a couple weeks ago. This lady that we had just met during the conference told us that all she saw in us was Christ the whole time we were there. Tears came into my eyes. Oh I'm so glad He shows through me. It has not always been so. But it's a work that He has done in me. Thanks be to God. And you know what, He will do it for you too, if only you ask Him too. I know that you will, and I will stand with you in asking our God to bless you with even more than He has me. How's that? So just set down in a quite place, and rest all your burdens, all your cares upon Him. Worship Him and give Him thanks and praise, regardless of circumstances or events. Trust in the Lord with all your heart. It's that simple. It's so simple that many miss it. It's God!Worshipping and giving thanks,"O"

ok, in resonse to MeAgain's response....do not mock God and His word. (all things are possible with God) (ask and you shall recieve) (fight untill bloodshed against sin) (you shall be perfect)Just because you have not experinced true victory do not shoot someone down for seeking it.You are teaching contrary to the word of God MeAgain, im sorry but it is simply the spirit of the anti-christ that is behind you....i did not read your whole post because it from the start is against scripture...... you saidIf you mean "sinless perfection" in this lifetime, I couldn't say a word about that, because it's not attainable in this present state we are in.That is not teaching other people to observe everything that Jesus taught you. The lawless one is coming very soon (2 Thes. 2) and he has many followers in the church today paving the way for him. Jesus taught you must be perfect. why do people say "you cant be"????? when Jesus says "be"?MeAgain what about 2 Corinthians 7:1????what about titus 2:12???? in this present world???you are causing a young christian or a strugling christian to RELAX because it is "too hard" for YOU to keep God's commandments....Luke 17:1-2Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! 2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.Listen not to the false prophets/preachers/people who commend your sin weather directly or inderectly......Col 1:28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Col 4:12Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God. Heb 12:23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, Leonard Ravnehill said I'm not saying that it's impossible to sin. I'm saying that it is possile not to sin."Can i also suggest that MeAgain that that view you hold that "it is impossible to do what Jesus says to do" that view is at odds to what the majority of what the older generation of strong preaching says that is on this very sight....I must say.... weather or not your view is one that you mastered it is not from God.Do not lower Gods standards.....you say not in this age???? well look to..... Re 21:27 - And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of lifeHave you not overcome any sin in your life????if yes....why not the sin that you now struggle with.To the original post......forget what everyone says to you just go back to the scriptures and follow them....listen not to those decievers who say "Peace, Peace" when there is no peace.....God bless u all! And to MeAgain....yes my post was strong, i pray that it doesnt offend you but only brings you closer to God.

MeAgain.....i went through it very roughly the first time....and the second time wasnt worth it....i will ask u this......"can we be perfect on this earth"? from your post clearly no!i dont care what else u think u wrote that was so briliant...i dont need some guy with a phd. in systematic theology etc. to lead me in a "good idead or teaching of sinless perfection"...what ever you got i dont want.what you wrote in your post was NO different to what i hear from any other spiritualy dying church out there.....again i say answer me clearly (can we live perfect?)no i didnt call "total surrender to Him = antichrist...u said, i said that......i say ur teaching on that "u cant be perfect on earth" is from the lawless matter what u said after that is a contradiction....Forget your teachers and go to the bible...go back to my post and answer me where do u get your theology or doctrine from???what do u mean by total surrender?God bless u! and i pray for your eyes to be opened.

Hi Joe,God has certainly given me victory over besetting sins that I had. How? By faith, that is, by believing that when the Bible says that God will not allow any temptation to overcome me, but that he will always provide a way out, well, he means it, and Faith says that I believe what God says, and Faith says, Thank you God for doing the impossible in me.And He has done it for me. Victory.Here is what Ravenhill has to say on this:With all this limitless resource to inherit in this life, why then, do we settle for minimum spirituality? These scriptures just quoted shatter all our excuses for carnal Christianity and explode all our feeble excuses on bumper-sticker evangelism: "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven." Some backslider must have written that one. Sinning is not permitted to believers. "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin." (I John 3:9) Not that it is impossible to sin; but it is, by the blood of Christ and the Holy Spirit, possible not to sin. John again shouts the triumphant note, "Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world." (I John 4:4) God, then, has made it possible for you and me to have victory over the world, the flesh and the devil! (End of quote from Ravenhill)God expects us to expect Him to do the humanly impossible all the time. That’s what faith is. Keep thinking about how powerful God is, and Believe that He is willing to give YOU that power in conquering any sin, through the power of the Blood of Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Praise the Lord!God bless,Brian

I wanted to weigh in for a moment as I feel it is easy to talk past each other and get all up in arms. When I first arrived on the forum's Philologos and I flew into a heated exchange over this topic. It don't take long.MeAgain defined sin as missing the Mark and that Mark is the person of Jesus Christ. Charles Finney for example, believed that folk needed to be 'broken down' a few times a week by seeing that they still had sin in their life so they could repent of it. He believed that 'pouring light' on a person required a response, so the idea was to keep searching out more and more 'light' for use in this process. The problem was, he was sinless perfection/government of God in his soteriology (salvation doctrine). He believed that if a person did not respond right to the light they have and any 'new' light they may receive then they instantly lost their justification and were on the same footing with God as any other unsaved sinner. He viewed our estate before God as Christians more as a 'governor's pardon' than a judicial aquittal. Even this was 'conditional' to Finney as any new crime, no matter how small, immediately put a person back on 'death row' (so to speak) or as we might say, in danger of Hell fire.So, for me, the discussion is quite important because many people have many different views of their security before God from Finney's no security to Charles Stanley's eternal security. If I preach an absolute sinless perfection (which I will examine Finney's in a moment) to a people who believe eternal security that is one thing; but if I preach it to folk who have a hair trigger judgment, thin ice salvation, it is quite another. Now, let me quote from one of Finney's lectures on Death To Sin:3. Death in sin implies a self-indulgent state of mind. To consult ones own ease, happiness, reputation, and interests is natural to him who is dead in sin. If he is on board a steam boat you will find him ready to contend for the best berth (bed), and hastening to obtain the best seat at the first table. If riding in a stagecoach you will observe him seeking for the best seat. To consult his own comfort, his own indulgence and happiness is the law of his mind. And in ten thousand ways will this state of mind develop itself.But a death to sin implies a self-denying state of mind, a disposition to give others the preference, a choosing to accommodate others, and bless, and benefit others, at the expense of self-interest or self-indulgence.4. A death in sin implies the real and practical regarding of ourselves as our own. But death to sin is the real and practical regarding of our whole being as God's.5. A death in sin implies the love of our own reputation. Death to sin implies the making of ourselves no reputation as Christ did.6. A death in sin implies the practical regarding of our possessions as our own. Death to sin implies the real and practical regarding of our possessions as God's.7. Death in sin implies the dominion of the flesh and a will in subjection to the flesh. A death to sin implies a subjection of the body to the soul. It implies the keeping the body under and bringing it into subjection, and that all its appetites and propensities are brought into subjection to the will of God.8. A death in sin implies a state of mind that is influenced by sensible objects, by the honors, riches, opinions, and things of this world as much as if its possessor expected to live here forever. Death to sin implies the giving up the world substantially as a dying man gives it up. Its riches, honors, amusements, pursuits, ambition, strifes, and envyings, what are all these to him? If he knows himself to be a dying man, he regards them not. He desires them not. He seeks them not. He does not, cannot, under these circumstances, will to have them. He chooses nothing of this world's goods, but those things that are really necessary for the few hours or moments which remain to him of this life. A little more breath--perhaps a few spoons full of water-- a little of the kind attention of his friends are all that is left for him to desire of earthly good. Now death to sin implies this giving up all desire and expectation of the wealth, honors, and selfish pursuits of this world. The man who is dead to sin is as absolutely satisfied with a competency of earthly good as a man is who is on a bed of death. He would no sooner lay his schemes of earthly aggrandizement, or for enlarging and perpetuating his selfish gratification, than a man would upon a bed of death. In a word, he has given up the world as an object of pursuit, as really and emphatically as if he knew himself to be doomed to live but one hour. He has entered upon a new and eternal life. All his plans, desires, and aims are heavenly, and not earthly, sensual or devilish.*****Notice how he begins and things sound very good and the more he writes the tighter the message gets upon the hearer. Keep in mind, that to fail in any detail of what he has written would be soul jeapordizing sin. In Finney's perfection there would never be another fishing trip other than for the food it yielded. Food would not be salted unless it is for the preservation of the meat and never for the pleasure of the tastebuds. Man eats to live and therefore would not eat for any real pleasure. In Finney's perfection, the wedding party Jesus attended to turn water into wine I truly believe to him (Finney) would be an excess. This is Finney's idea of 'light' being shed on our behavior. If new 'light' reveals it to be a working not in harmony with the afore mentioned regulations then it is sin that must be forsaken or Hell awaits. This is why Ron and my conversation went off the rails. I grew up in a semi-Oberlin theology (Finney's salvation theology). Your salvation was always on the line for the silliest of errors. This may seem excessive or exaggerating, but I have not told the half of it. There used to be here in Missouri 'holiness or hell' preachers that made almost everything to be a sin. The story is commonly told that an elderly woman bent on living holy heard her minister preach against coffee (yes you heard me right) so she went home and poured a hot cup of water, added cream and sugar, and drank it for fear of displeasing the Lord. I visited an elderly woman in a nursing home that feared hell like that who had to be one of the most holy people I have ever met. YET, she always said, "I sure hope I make it." That woman lost her mind as death came nearer and nearer and last I seen her she was in a hospital bed restrained and caged in like an adult sized baby bed. BTW, I still believe that Finney loved the Lord and has a great many good things to teach us. Same goes for Wesley. It's told that he plucked up the flowers and planted vegatables lest the flowers cumbereth the ground. As much as I admire these men, I believe there were some fundamental misunderstandings still yet on what it means to please the Lord. Glean from them what is good and discard the rest.

Hey Joe,Sounds as though what you are looking for is a real life experience. So here goes.....A couple years ago I was saved. At the time, I was a heavy smoker. When I became a Christian, everyone was telling me "You have to quit smoking." Well, this seemed really strange to me. The whole reason I even came to Jesus was because I needed His help. I could not stop myself from sinning. And so, why would I stop smoking on my own, if I couldn't stop from fornicating and other such sins. So, I decided to talk to Jesus about it. I was completely honest with the Lord. I said, "My Lord, I like smoking. I really do. I have tried to quit many, many times. I can't quit. And so, if you want me to quit, tell me, and I will do whatever you ask. But you will to help me, because I can't do it." And I left it right there at His feet and went on smoking. About a week later, the Lord spoke to my heart. He said, almost plain as day, "You have to quit smoking." So, I said, "Okay Lord. I will smoke until midnight tonight, and then trust in you." At midnight that night, I put down my last cigarette.Because I was faithful and trusted in Jesus, He helped me through. I hardly had any cravings. I didn't struggle with it. I just stayed close to Jesus, and let Him help me. I have never smoked again and have complete victory over cigarettes.When I had this experience, I didn't realize the full and practical implications of what was going on. But, years later, I have learned how to apply this same experience to give me victory over sin in other areas of my life. The first thing you must realize is that you cannot conquer sin. You cannot do it with your own power. Don't try. You will fail. You may have a small and temporary victory, but then you will fail again. Once you realize this and accept it, then you are ready to turn to Jesus. You must give your sins to Jesus and let Him conquer sin in you. Now, I realize that this is a really abstract thing. How do you do this? Firstly, give up. Yes, give up. This means you stop trying to fight against sin. Once you given up, give to Jesus. Draw closer to Christ. How do you do this? Always remember this.....Jesus is with you everywhere you are. Start practicing the presence of God. This means, acknowledge Jesus at all times. Keep your thoughts and mind focused on Him. Think about this....Jesus is always with you. Everywhere you go, everywhere you are, Jesus is with you. Even when you are sitting on the toilet, Jesus is right there. This will help you. When the Devil comes, and you start to think about sin, remember that Jesus is there. Would you do those things in front of Jesus?Call out to Jesus. When temptation comes, call to Jesus for help. Don't try to fight on your own. Usually, I will pray and pray and pray calling to Jesus until He answers my prayer. At first, you may have to do this quite a bit. However, as you learn to walk with God, you won't have to repeat yourself. You will be confident and strong and immediately say, "Get away from me Satan. Jesus has already beat you on the cross." You will experience failures at first. However, don't be discouraged. These failures happen because God is teaching you to have a strong faith. Every time you fail, you must repent and then leave it with Jesus. But, if you go around thinking, "I am such a terrible person, look at me, look at how I sin"....then you have not accepted the forgiveness of God. Remember, you have been cleansed by Jesus Christ. This means that God does not see any of your sins. They are gone. All your sins. Even the ones you will commit years to come. You must remember this, because if you don't, if you allow sin to have power in your life, it will draw you away from God. Sin was conquered on the cross. You need God's grace and forgiveness. Don't ever, ever deny it. Always accept His love. Always apologize for what you do wrong. Confess all your sins openly to Christ. Then, leave them there. Don't think about them or remember them. Lastly, it is important to realize your part and God's part in victory of sin, and also in God's labors. Remember this....your part is always to have faith, and God's part is always to do the work. What does this mean? This means that Jesus, your God and Lord, is the one who is strong and powerful. He is the one who fulfilled the law, conquered sin, and reigns as King. He is the one who must do the work in you. You, however, must always be faithful. This means you always trust in God. You always listen to what Jesus tells you. You constantly say, "Yes Lord." If the Lord asks something of you, or tells you something, He will do it. He will give you all the words, the power, and the equipment to do what He asks. You just have to let Him do it in you. Always be willing to obey the Lord with an eager heart.Don't do anything apart from Christ. If you do, you will be greatly disheartened and anxious. You will not be able to sleep at night, and you will constantly fight with yourself. However, when you draw close to Jesus, you will always have peace, and be filled with joy. This does not mean you won't have struggles or hardship, but even through hardship you will praise the Lord. Give everything to Jesus and let Him be the Lord of your life. May Christ bless you indeed, and may you draw close to Him.Your brother in Christ,Blake

Joe,This is the first post I have ever done in my life but your question "How do I get victory" is prompting my post. I hope this helps. To get victory over sin requires faith, "This is the victory which overcomes the world, even our faith". Conversely unbelief keeps us from victory. I had allways thought God would do this for others but not me because I did not really believe that He loved me as He said He did. This was the source of my unbelief. I secretly held this doubt about Him all my life. Unbelief comes not from a lack of credible evidence but from a willingness to believe a lie. If He was not truthfull about His love for me than the fault was in Him and not in me. I had done all I could to try to persuade Him i.e. prayed for victory, but He would not do His part. The problem was He was not telling me my part was to pray, but my part was to believe. And not just believe something in general but to believe something specific. That He loved me and gave HIMSELF for ME. Joe I believe that when the Bible says the heart it means the will. So when God brought to my heart through a book I was reading that I was to believe His love for me really did mean me I willed right then and there that I was going to take Him at His word and would listen to nothing that sought to contradict His word. I didn't get half way out of the room before this thought came to me "That doesn't really mean..." and there I cut it off. Loved me means ME! My reply to your question "How do I get victory" then would be this. There is in you a willingness to believe something that is not true and/or an unwillingness to believe something God has said. I do not know what that might be but you do. Settle that once and for all."He that hath received His testimony hath set his seal that God is true". John 3:33

Brother Joe,The Lord is dealing with me right now about this very thing. The old-timers would call this "praying through" or "entire sanctification." There's a whole host of terms for this phenomenon. There are some mainline Protestant churches that believe this doctrine. I absolutely rejected it when I was younger and the Lord has brought me back to it, nearly 40 years later.Has the Lord achieved some level of victory over sin in my life? Yes, it's been His work and the blood of Jesus has definitely broken things from my heart. Anger, bitterness, smoking, cursing, television, smoking, the list could go but it was a work of Jesus. These were broken by the blood of Jesus but yet the work is not finished in my heart.There are some testimonies available online at Wesley Center online available in the "Holiness Classics" section. They are testimonies entitled "How They Entered Canaan." There's also a short book that Adam Clarke wrote I believe it's called "Entire Sanctification" and it's also available on this same website.Here's a brief excerpt, from the preface of this book. Adam Clarke was a holiness preacher and scholar. He was enthusiastically committed to Methodist doctrine and experience and particularly to Wesley's understanding of Christian perfection. In a sermon preached from Phil. 1:27-28 titled "Apostolic Preacher," he explained Christian holiness: "The whole design of God was to restore man to his image, and raise him from the ruins of his fall; in a word, to make him perfect; to blot out all his sins, purify his soul, and fill him with all holiness, so that no unholy temper, evil desire, or impure affection or passion shall either lodge or have any being within him. This and this only is true religion, or Christian perfection; and a less salvation than this would be dishonourable to the sacrifice of Christ and the operation of the Holy Ghost.... Call it by what name we please, it must imply the pardon of all transgression and the removal of the whole body of sin and death.... This, then, is what I plead for, pray for, and heartily recommend to all true believers, under the name of Christian perfection."Duncan Campbell's testimony is also here and I love this quote "Make me as holy as asaved sinner can be." That's the cry of my heart. It's not to achieve something but to have this total union with Christ.1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.Peace be with brother in the precious name of Jesus. He is going to bring you through to victory.

SEEK the Lord our GOD and conform yourself to the likeness of Christ. Nobody can defeat sin on their own; the attempt would be quite foolish. Instead do not worry because the Lord is with us. Take your sin to the cross each time you find it in your life, cut the ties that bind you to your own flesh. We do not belong to ourselves, WE BELONG TO GOD, WE BELONG TO JESUS CHRIST! We do not deserve the deliverance that we are given by Christ. But he seeks us out to conform us anyways to the likeness of him in his love. CHRIST DESERVES ALL US! SO GIVE HIM WHAT HE CAME AND DIED FOR! LOVE GOD WITH YOUR MIND, HEART, SOUL AND SPIRIT! LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF! BECOME TRULY CHRIST-LIKE AND YOU WILL HAVE YOUR VICTORY THROUGH GOD AND CHRIST ALONE!Brothers and Sisters, I beg you, stop the Strife within the body. Love one another as Christ not only Loved you but commanded you to Love as well.I love you all in Jesus nameScroggins

Annie;God help your hastiness to judge and condemn without full investigation of a post or knowledge of the person's prior posts through-out.That is incorrect and the exact opposite of what we are attempting to correct at the moment throughout this forum. Judge with right judgement and leave off the condemning period.W_D_J_D,Re-read what you have written and look at the tone and manner of your words. This is not a place to be making either demands nor accusations.As to the original posting.Part of the problem applies as well with the way this was headed. Again, whatever the intent, you got off on the wrong footing with a dictating statement in "Do not reply", regardless of what follows. In an open forum it is a self defeating statement and quite out of line with the thrust of this ministry.To all.Please, mark your words carefully, there has been enough bickering and bitting amongst each other and the tolerance of this here is at an end. You are, and will be held accountable for your actions and words here.

Amen, Bless you Brother Mike.

There is only one way for victory over sin. First, victory over sin is not the goal of the Christian Life.Rather, the goal is to be conformed to the image of the First born Son of God.And how does this come about?Only Christ is Victorious over sin. Only Christ is holy, only Christ is rightouse.The only way to obtain victory over sin is to feed on Christ. That is, unless daily, we are contacting Him, enjoying Him in His Word, feeding on Him not just individually but corporately along with others of His body, can we enter into the genuine experience of Him as victory in our personal experience.We are tripartite. We have a body, a soul, and a spirit. When we believe into Christ, our spirit is regenerated, resurrected from the dead and Christ Himself indwells us.God is not interested in our moral reformation, Rather He is interested in building Himself into us as our Life.When the crowed asked the Lord Jesus, "What must we do to do the works of God" the Lord responded, "This is the work of God, that you believe into Him whom He has sent". He then went on to expound upon the experience of the Isrealites in the wilderness and the eating of the Manna concluding with, "I am the Bread of Heaven."It is only as we take Christ as our daily manna, as the Bread of Heaven, feast On Him, assimilate Him, that He becomes the contents of our inner being. And as we do, we begin to live Him out, not according to rules and regulations, but according to the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.Only as we take Him in and are reconstituted with Him, can we live Him out. He said, "as I LIve because of the Father, so He who eats Me shall live because of Me.Christ is the only victorious Life. If we are looking for a method, a way, a teaching, then we will remain in ourselves. God has given us a Person, the Living, crucified and resurrected Christ to indwell us and to be our all sufficient supply.There is no other way but Christ. To know HIm, to feed on Him, to apprehend Him, to assimilate Him, and to live by Him.Our need is to be strengthend by His Spirit into our inner man, that He may dwell in our hearts through faith, that we, being rooted and grounded in love, may be made strong to apprehend with all the saints, what is the length, the breath, the hight, and the depth, and to know the knolege surpassing love of Christ, that we might be filled up unto all the fullness of God"When I came to the place where I said, 'Lord, all these things are either true for me or they are not. Either you are within me and all the promises of God are yea and amen to me, either I can live and experience the victorious Life of Christ or I cannot, then I began to find the Lord responding. The Bible became alive. I began to find Him within me working, I found all the truths to be effectual to me.Our work is to daily obtain the Bread of heaven. to come to Christ, to call on Him, to feen on Him, to enjoy Him as the Bread of Life. As we do this we find our inner being strengthened. We find the Spirit working within us. We act, not out of obligatin, but just act according to His Live within us. We are regulated by His Life and we find fellowship with Him to be our satisfaction.Graftedbranch

Bless you Sister LinnYou dont find victory through anything other than Christ. Christ is the end of ourselves and the beginning of NEW LIFE. "Give me less of me, and more of you." We must cut ourselves out, deny all that which is you in the flesh. Become more like Christ, seek his face, seek his will, and by that you will no longer be a slave to sin. Sin is no longer your master in Christ, but rather The Lord HIMSELF.SEEK HIM ALWAYS!In Christ,Scroggins

Here's a quote from Matthew Henry's concise commentary on Matthew 22:14 (For many are called, but few [are] chosen.) Many are called to the wedding-feast, that is, to salvation, but few have the wedding-garment, the righteousness of Christ, the sanctification of the Spirit. Then let us examine ourselves whether we are in the faith, and seek to be approved by the King.

Brothers and Sisters,I have read all the posts on this thread and I fell MeAgain has been vilified without cause.If my posts were said to be inspired by the spirit of the antichrist I would probably want to defend myself. And so would the rest of you want to defend yourselves if the same claim was made about your doctrine or theology. God bless you all.Murray

If my posts were said to be inspired by the spirit of the antichrist I would probably want to defend myself. And so would the rest of you want to defend yourselves if the same claim was made about your doctrine or theology.I think herein lies the problem. When we learn NOT to defend ourselves but only our doctrinal positions or beliefs then the tendency to get personal will be taken cared of. When things (which is everything here) that need to be spiritually discerned are forced unto others, it's definitely not the Spirit at work. Aren't we all after truth? May we all learn the mercy of the Lord. As Bro. Ron B. and others have repeatedly said: Play the ball, not the man!

I just wanted to say that I am somewhat sickened and saddened by the majority of responses. I really appreciated the first few (especially what Josiah and MeAgain wrote, thank you)but after delving into a bit of the rest i really just couldnt even read on. Im sure there may have been a few other good posts as well, and I thank those of you who spoke honestly, from a pure heart and genuine motives of love. But I am just overall very saddened by the overwhelming number of posts that are here that were posted with a spirit of pride, arrogance, slander, and "intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the Head"Again, I wanted to thank those who are really in a position to help someone to be free, who gave experienced, wise answers and not just opinions or theories about victory. I want to thank those of you who answered with a pure motive of love and a desire to help. Ive been very dissatisfied with SI's message boards lately :-( I hope something can be done to prevent this from happening. It seems like this is what happens to u]every single post[/u] anymore.

JFEdgar.....(2 Timothy 4:3)"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears"(2 Timothy 4:4)"They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths"Do you want to hear the truth? Or do you want the tickling or your ears?I believe everyone posted out of what they thought was correct...My response to your claims...is simply read the bible....PERFECT......(Mt 5:48). (Mt 19:21). (Joh 17:23). (Rom 12:2). (2Co 13:11). (Eph 4:13). (Php 3:12). (Col 1:28 ). (Col 4:12 ). (1Th 3:10 ). (2Ti 3:17). (Heb 7:19). (Heb 12:23). (Heb 13:21). (Jas 1:4). (Jas 3:2). (1Pe 5:10). (1Jo 4:17). (Rom 6-8) (6. dead to sin.) (7. old life of flesh = death.) (8. life in the spirit = life)HOLY.........(2 Cor 7:1). (Eph 1:4). (Eph 5:27). (Col 1:22). (1Pe 1:15-16). (2Pe 3:11). (Rev 22:14)PURE.....(Mat 5:8). (Jas 1:27). (1Jo 3:3).(And there is much more than those scriptures given....) And there is nothing contrary to that abundance of scriptures...Brothers and sisters.....reading these scriptures is proof... away from any of your doctrines or theologies that have origins outside of the bible......Grace does not teach us that it is ok to sin and the law is gone....(Titus 2:12)"Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;" ....rather......(Romans 3:31)"Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law." May God bless u all!

This has to be one of my favorite quotes ever...."Repentance is to leave The sin we loved before, And show that we in earnest grieve By doing so no more."-Charles Spurgeonand this one goes hand in hand with it...."What we mean by salvation is this—deliverance from the love of sin, rescue from the habit of sin, setting free from the desire to sin."-Charles Spurgeon

(And there is much more than those scriptures given....) And there is nothing contrary to that abundance of scriptures...These scriptures given us a very good picture of what holiness and victory over sin looks like, but it is another thing to show what the source of holiness and victory are.If it is ourselves, then it is self rightousness. And this is even a greater evil than un rightousness because it excludes us from the rightousness of God, puffs us up and makes us believe we are something when we are not.But the Source of Victory is Christ Himself who is the Victorious One and the Holy One. And any holiness or rightousness which is not the fruit of His indwelling Life expressed in us and through us is just ourselves and our natural religious nature.Indeed the scriptures give us many pictures, illustrations, encouragements, and commands in regard to holiness and victory of sin. But from where does this proceed? What is it's source? Our own nature? Our own will power? Our own ability to muster up the determinination to do what we believe is right?Or is holiness and victory over sin the result of contacting Christ, of abiding in Christ, of being filled with Christ, of faith in Christ? Are we the Source or is the Spirit of the Living, crucified and resurrected Christ the source of our Victory and holiness?"That I may be found in Him, not having a rightousness of my own derived from law, but that which comes through faith in Christ. The Rightousness which comes from God on the baisis of faith. That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of HIs sufferings, being conformed to His death... (Phil. 3)I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I but Christ lives in me, and the life I now live in the flesh, I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me (Gal. 2:20)The just requirement of the law is continually fulfilled in us who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.For the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death. (Romans 8)I suggest we need to apprehend the Bible, study it, understand it, enter into it's meaning, and seek the Lord for His Light on it. Then we can know the proper distinctions between law and grace, Faith and works, Self effort and Christ as our indwelling overcomming all victorious Life.Then the Bible ceases to be a book of law but becomes a book of Life. And we cease to stive and enter into His rest, then we cease to look to ourselves and look unto Jesus, the author and finnisher of our faith. Then we will experience the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus setting us free from the law of sin and of death.Graftedbranch

Amen Brother, AMEN!That is a wonderful explaination.Jesus Christ our Lord and GOD is great! Do not seek the "sinless perfection" Brothers and Sisters, seek the living GOD, seek Christ.Freedom from sin is provided by Jesus Christ, not by our own means.How amazing, how sweet.HIS GRACE.In Love of Christ,Scroggins

OBEDIENCE!

grace teaches us to deny ungodliness....

If you seek His face u have to be holy, if you are holy u will seek His face.

"Be ye holy as i am holy"

my friends it seems as if u are more scared of holiness than you are of sin....

u said "seek not sinless perfection" phhh did u not know that God is sinless and God is perfect......

Again i say....
God is perfect, so let Him rule your life...surrender!

...For sure its only by Him that we are made Holy..only by Him....but you GOT to "beleieve it" and you have GOT to "want it"

seems as if some dont beleieve it nor want it....therefore God wont give it to you!

May the Lord bless us all!

my friends it seems as if u are more scared of holiness than you are of sin....

We should be as afraid of self rightousness as we are of sin.

Both originate from the same tree. The tree of the knowlege of good and evil.

We should labor for the food which does not perish. That is the Fruit of the Tree of Life which is Christ.

True repentance is not from evil to good but from the tree of the knowlege of good and evil to the Tree of Life.

True repentance is from a self centered independant life apart from God, apart from Christ. True repentance is from Self to Christ.

True holiness is not from ourseves. True holiness is the holiness of Christ wrought into our being by the Spirit of the Living Christ.

"YOu have died to the law through the body of Christ that you might be joined to Another, even to Him who was raised from the dead that you might bear fruit to God."

Romans 7 and 8 give us 4 laws. The law of God, the Law of good in our mind, the Law of sin and death in our members and the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.

THe law of sin and death in our flesh cannot be overcome by the law of good in our minds. Rather our attempts at obeying the Law of God ends in stirring up the law of sin and death in our flesh which takes us captive.

It is only through the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus that we are set from from the law of sin and death.

IT is only as we live by faith in the Son of God who loved us and gave Himself for us that we find, "it is no longer I who live but Christ lives within me.

The fruit of our union with the Resurrected Christ is a holy life. The fruit of holiness is produced by living by the living Christ who indwells us.

Apart from the indwelling Christ, the only thing we can produce is self rightousness which puffs us up, causes us to believe we are superior to others, and causes us to boast in our own holiness. We become self rightouse religious critical pharasees.

But we are the true circomcision who worship God in spirit, glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh.

God rules us not by outward rules and regulations. God rules us by Life. His Life within us. His Kingdom is a Kingdom of Life, entered into by the New Birth, and He rules it by His indwelling life.

"As many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God."

Graftedbranch

You are absolutely right. I don't respond to this lounge very often, but I would like to say I agree with you on your response. The bible has absolutes in it, and just because we can't live like it says don't shoot someone else down who does. The perfect one lives in us, and the renewing of the mind has to take place. it's not just all about being born again spiritually, it's almost sounds like gnosticism were the more knowledgeable one has, the more spiritual one is, and the sin's of body don't matter, because God doesn't see them because we are so spiritual. The renewing of the mind, the way we think has to be renewed, or we remain a doubleminded person, with this two personality thing going on the rest of our life. I don't believe it nor will I ever. And no I'm not there yet but I believe I can attain what he has for me on this earth, not counting what there is to come. May God Bless you in Christ. David

The perfect one lives in us, and the renewing of the mind has to take place. it's not just all about being born again spiritually, it's almost sounds like gnosticism were the more knowledgeable one has, the more spiritual one is, and the sin's of body don't matter, because God doesn't see them because we are so spiritual. The renewing of the mind, the way we think has to be renewed, or we remain a doubleminded person, with this two personality thing going on the rest of our life. I don't believe it nor will I ever. And no I'm not there yet but I believe I can attain what he has for me on this earth, not counting what there is to come. May God Bless you in Christ. David

This is good. But we need to distinguish between the gnostic belief in perfection through knowlege and the perfection we experience through our increasing knowlege of Christ.

That is, the Bible is full of prayers for our growth in knowlege of Christ.

Paul's prayer for the Ephesians is that they be given a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the full knowlege of Him. That they might know what is the hope of their calling and what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the Saints.

Our growth in Life depends on our increasing in the knowlege of Christ. If we don't know this One who has redeemed us and who indwells us, how can we exercise faith to lay hold of Him, and to apply Him and to grow up in all things into Him who is the Head?

Tozer says, 'remember we know only so much of Christ that the Spirit reveals and we have only as much of Christ as the Spirit imparts) (Why the Holy Spirit is Given) - A. W. Tozer

We need the revealion of the Spirit to know the length, the breadth, the hight and the depth and to know the knowlege surpassing Love of Christ that we might be filled up unto all the fullness of God.

Pauls burdon in Ephesians 4 is that: Until we all arive at the oneness of the faith and of the full knowlege of the Son of God, at a full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

THe issue is not who has more knowlege or who knows what. But rather the issue is to press on to know the living Christ in a fuller measure, to know more of His Person, His work, and all His fullness and the greatness of His power to us who believe.

That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death...

OUr great need is not to do this or that, but to have more revelation of Christ. We need to see Him as the answer to our every need. We need our eyes opened and we need Light from the Bible to see Christ in it in all His attributes, all His work, all His rich supply, and the more of Him we know, the more our faith is able to lay hold of Him and the more of Him we are able to experience in our daily lives.

The very revelation by the Spirit of Christ to us enables us to enter in to the experience of Christ.

It is only as the Spirit unvails our conditon before God, our sin, and our need of Christ and only as He unveils Christ crucified for our sins, and resurrected from the dead, that we are able to believe into Him and be regenerated.

And it is only as we gain more knowlege of Christ, more of HIm is unveiled to us by the Spirit in the Word, that we are able to enter into more experience of Christ.

This is not gnosticism, This is just the Bible. And the way we grow in the knowlege of Christ is by contacting Him, by calling on Him, and applying to Him as we come to His Word. And in this way the Spirit opens up the Word, reveals more of Christ to us, and gives us faith to believe in Him more, to experience Him more and to bring us into oneness with Him.

Graftedbranch