Presenting the Apostrophe

A few weeks ago, I asked Mike Balog if I could write a Help section, to explain how the apostrophe should be used correctly. He welcomed the thought.

Then, two things struck me. It will be boring to read, and [i]needs[/i] to be more interactive, and, there is quite a lot of [i]brainwork[/i] involved, so, that's another good reason to do it slowly, like here, in a thread. At the end, it can be condensed into the main points and examples.

Anyone who is starting from a place of confusion, will have an extra portion of sorting out, so they come to understand where they go wrong, and what to do about it.

Here, I want to begin to lay out a thumbnail of the topics we need to sort between; today, nouns and verbs.

The brainwork I mentioned is largely around the many times there is an (s) at the end of a word. You have to [u]know[/u] what it is there for.

For instance, is the word a plural noun, like [u]ladies[/u], where the [u]ies[/u] at the end, is the plural of the noun "lady", (which ends in y), or, is it a verb such as [u]tarries[/u], where the infinitive "to tarry" ends in a (y)?

Thinking about this made me wonder whether everyone is sure of the difference between a noun and a verb?

In the UK, the teaching of grammar was abandoned for about 25 years, and has recently resumed. That means we have parents and graduates who have no idea how to pick out a verb. No matter how hazy you are, I hope this will soon become history.

Here are two questions:

Can you have a sentence without a verb in it?

How many nouns are in the following sentence?

[b]The cat's tail is black.[/b]

Hi Ron (InTheLight) and Cindy (lastblast),

I'm glad to have your input, really.

With it, as well as what I had in mind, there is the potential to cover more than I intended - which was to concentrate on the [i]thought processes[/i] required to decide where an apostrophe should be put, and only for that purpose, to be able to distinguish between a noun and a verb.

I will spend more time defining nouns, than adjectives.

Also, of course we will look at the possessive pronouns.

My experience is in adult literacy / dyslexia accommodation education, only, and for people who already have a good command of spoken English and sometimes a highly specialised vocabulary, the emphasis is different from teaching children - partly because they will never be sitting the same exams as children will face.

Hi Kire,

You have raised another instance of the use of the apostrophe, in a very neat example; thank you.

You have shown how the apostrophe can be used in place of letters which are not being pronounced out loud, even though they belong in the written word when it stands alone, such as "am".

Is there any difference between "I'm" and "I am" and if yes, when/where/how should I use "I'm" and "I am"?

But, in [i][b]spoken[/b][/i] English, or when writing informally to friends or family, you can [i]write[/i] [u]the way you speak[/u], using the apostrophes to shorten the phrases.

Please tell me, Kire, if this answers your question enough?

Could we (anyone) make a list of other examples, where the apostrophe is used to signify one or more letters which have been dropped from the written words?

Ron said

it is a possessive noun that is [u]acting as a adjective[/u] [b]modifying another noun[/b]..... and yet it remains a [b]possessive noun[/b].

"The [b]cat's[/b] tail is black", "cat's" is a "possessive noun", as Ron points out.

"cat" [u]is[/u] a noun.

"tail" is also a noun, when standing alone.

"black" can also be a noun, in that it is the name of the colour of the tail...

But, we can arrive at calling "black" a noun, [i]only[/i] by rearranging the way the information is presented.... This is an important writing skill, although the example is simple.

[b]What colour is the cat's tail? It is black.[/b]

Phrased like this, there is no doubt "black" is [u]the name[/u] of [u]the colour[/u].

The different sentences [i]mean[/i] the same, but "black" and "cat" are serving different purposes in each arrangement.

If I had said, "The cat has a black tail." the analysis of the sentence would have made "black" [i]an adjective[/i], describing [u]the noun[/u] "tail".

Notice that in order [b]to play around with the nouns[/b], [u]the verb has altered[/u] from "is" to "has".....

Notionally, within the "has" an apostrophe is hiding, because the [i][b]meaning[/i][/b] of "have" and "has", is [b][i]possession, or possessive[/i][/b].

By referring to the cat's [u]ownership[/u] of its tail, we create a [b][u]possessive[/u] noun[/b].

An apostrophe is needed, between the end of the noun, and the (s), "cat's".

Now, can I just apologise immediately to all the English teachers reading this? I have no intention of using technical language, because technical language is unnecessary to learn [u]the skill[/u] we are discussing.

However, please feel free to post corrections to your hearts' content, as I am more than willing to learn what I can from this exercise. ;-)

Thanks, Preach,

I'm just doing one little part, which is already growing as I watch! :-)

When looking for nouns in text, or, in your head, as you think through what you want to write - or say - [b]nouns are the words which give a name to people, places, all kinds of things (like animals) - before which, (notionally), you would put "the" or "a" , or "an"[/b].

Of course, many times we use a noun without a "the" or an "a" or an "an" in front of it.

"the" is called "the [u]definite article[/u]" because you are referring to a specific person, place or thing.

"a" is called "the [u]in[/u]definite article", because you are referring to [b][u]a[/u]ny[/b] person, place or thing which you name.

If the noun (or the adjective preceding it) begins with a vowel - (a), (e), (i), (o), (u) - or an (h), an "an" is used instead.

an apple,
an aephid,

an elevator,
an eagle,

an indicator,
an island,

an octopus,
an omen,

an uncle,
? an unicorn, an uniform?... I don't think so. Any thoughts?

an horrible (adj) dream (noun),
an hotel,

When speaking aloud, this makes the noun flow more easily into the phrase.

When using "the" before a noun which begins with a vowel, some people [u]say[/u] it like [i][b]thee[/b][/i], because it often [i]flows[/i] better in speech, (but, the spelling remains "the" - not "thee").

the anchor,
the elephant,
the indian (adj) meal (noun),
the opera,
the umbrella

In the list after "an", you will notice all the words beginning, like [u]a[/u]pple, [u]e[/u]levator, [u]i[/u]ndicator, [u]o[/u]ctopus and [u]u[/u]ncle, (with a vowel) make the "short" sound .... this is a bit like the [i]voice[/i] of each vowel.

When a vowel "says its [u]name[/u]", it is called the "long" sound.

We will come back to this, because it is relevant both to reading with the correct pronunciation, and to spelling words correctly when you are writing them.

One of the objects of this exercise, is simply to learn how to write down what you say - how [i]you[/i] say it - correctly.

This means [i]listening[/i] carefully.

In my first post, I asked if it is possible to have a sentence without a verb?

Ron and Cindy both said "no", which is correct,
EDIT but, we do [u]not[/u] always [u]say[/u] all the words out loud.

Sometimes, several words are only [i]implied[/i]. Then, when written down, you may find you have [u]a one-word-only sentence[/u], but, [i]in the context of its use[/i], no-one is guessing its meaning. EDIT end.

We will look at this in more detail, but for the moment please believe this....

[b]We all speak in complete sentences the whole time[/b].

Whether you are [i]confident[/i] or not, with [i]written[/i] English, it is highly unlikely you do not speak good-enough English to learn how to write it.

This means that by listening [u]to yourself[/u], you may begin to hear your words in a different way, and become completely sure which are verbs and which are nouns.

So far, I've used nouns (in my examples), which you can see or touch, apart from two, maybe three, if you include "black"..... "Dream" and "omen" are [u]abstract nouns[/u].

Many times, you will be using abstract nouns when writing in sermonindex and elsewhere.

Please can you post more abstract nouns for us to discuss?

Let's go for a fairly extensive list, as I think this may be where some of the apostrophe errors are being made, sometimes by putting in an [i]unnecessary[/i] apostrophe.

Thank you.

Also, earlier, I asked for more examples such as Kire raised where "I am" becomes "I'm".

I gave the example "it is" for "it's" and
"do not" for "don't".

In some of these, you will find there is more than one letter missing, but, [u]only one apostrophe[/u]. Have courage!

Any takers?

Hi, allhavesinned,

Thank you for this encouragement.

This is a very interesting thread.

BTW what about this: "Jesus' coat?" (not taken from scripture) ;-)

I've been wondering when answering this would become unavoidable... ;-)

You are correct.

Jesus is a name ending in (s), like James, Marcus, Lilias, and many names from countries where English is not the first language learned.

Usually, one reserves putting the apostrophe [i][b]after[/b] the (s)[/i][u] for plural nouns[/u].

For instance, I went to a school which rejoiced in the title of "Ladies' College" - the College belonging to the Ladies. There was a Boys' College, too, by the same name (of the benefactor).

Here are more examples of [i]possessive[/i] [u]plural nouns[/u].

(Plural = more than one; singular = only one.)

horses' shoes
hunters' guns
gardeners' gloves

Notice that usually when the possessive noun is plural, so is the things they possess (or own).

"Ladies' College" is a much rarer combination of a plural possessive noun "Ladies' " (acting as an adjective to describe the College) and a singular possession, "College".

Going back to "Jesus' coat", this is completely correct, but, colloquially (that is, in common usage - spoken English), the addition of an extra (s) has become common.

So then it makes it easier to know the apostrophe goes before the last(s) in "Jesus's coat", or James's Park.... but technically this in incorrect, and there is no need [i][b]in writing[/i][/b] to add that last (s).

The addition of an extra (s) after a singular noun ending in (s), has the effect of [u]over-simplifying (or over-complicating!) the apostrophe rule[/u], to make all singular possessive nouns end "apostrophe (s)", as in "cat's tail"...... but only from one perspective.

[b]More correctly, [u]if a possessive noun ends in (s)[/u], whether it is a singular or a plural noun, [u]the apostrophe ALWAYS goes after it[/u][/b].

This one seems a bit odd when you think about it...

will not = won't

Here's a clue. Sometimes an (e) is dropped, as well as the (o) in "not".

ginnyrose mentioned "contractions" as a name we can give to shortened forms of words.

We are all used to Mr for Mister, Mrs for Mistress (the wife of Mister) and Miss, the daughter of Mr and Mrs. You will notice that in Mr, [u]the first and last letter(s)[/u] were used. This is an old, recognised way of shortening a word. Always though, the letters which are used, must give enough clues in the context, as to the whole word which was intended.

Thus, when choosing the letters by which to reduce the title Esquire, Ee was abandoned in favour of Esq, which makes clear the intention, especially in the context of addressing a young man, in writing (when Esq follows the name).

Other examples, which use the beginning or beginning and end of a word, but [b]no apostrophes[/b], are Nth and Sth for north and south, Hse for house, Co for company, Inc and Ltd for limited. You will find many more in old handwriting and printing, where economy of ink and time were two reasons contractions were used.

Names of people and places traditionally begin with a capital letter. This custom is being eroded by sign writers, untrained typists on the internet, and text messaging, but in any formal written communication, the convention should be followed. However, as examples, you may still find Elizabeth being shortened to Eliz, James being shortened to Jas and William becoming Wm.

Returning to phrases which use an apostrophe to indicate that a letter has been dropped from the speech and the spelling of that speech, here are a few more examples where [u]two letters are missing[/u].

Have not = havn't

Were not = wern't

Cannot = can't

Shall not = shan't

In all the phrases that I can think of with 'will', the first two letters are dropped. Thus

I will = I'll

You will (sing) = you'll

He will = he'll

She will = she'll

We will = we'll

You will (plural) = you'll

They will = they'll

In the last phrases above, the person(s) being referred to has / have (a) name(s) (a noun beginning with a capital letter - known as a [i]proper noun[/i]) which we are [i]not[/i] using.

Usually when writing, the identity of the person is established first, by using their name, then, in place of using the name again and again and again, we use 'he' or 'she'. These in place of the name are (all) are called [u][b]pro[/b]nouns[/u].

In an earlier post, I referred to possessive nouns, such as "cat's" (tail).

Now, if I say "Sam's car", although you don't know whether Sam is male or female, the phrase tells you that [b]Sam owns a car[/b]. "Sam's" is a possessive noun.

If I tell you Sam is a man, then we can say the car is his, or, it is his car.
If I tell you Sam is a woman, then we can say the car is hers, or, it is her car.

Do you see that a [b]possessive pronoun[/b] (his, hers) contains the meaning of the proper noun + apostrophe (s)?

This is the same for

mine
yours (singular)
ours
yours (plural)
theirs

All but "mine" end in an (s), but there is no apostrophe needed - ever.

Now, if James owns the car, and we write "James car", the correct place for the apostrophe is [i]after[/i] the (s), as previously discussed.

If you insist on saying "James's car" the apostrophe goes before the last (s) because there is only one James.

However, if there are two or more James who own cars, then we could make up the word Jameses, which is plural proper noun, and then the apostrophe should go after the last (s); thus we could refer to the Jameses' cars.

I know that's a clumsy example - but that is exactly why it is conventional not to bother with any more (s)s than necessary, wherever they can be avoided, while still communicating meaning.

Please tell me if any of this is falling into a pattern you can understand?

If I tell you Sam is a man, then we can say the car is his, or, it is his car.

If I tell you Sam is a woman, then we can say the car is hers, or, it is her car.

Now, I'm going to change "it is", to it's, where the apostrophe is in place of the (i) of "is".

It's his car.

It's her car.

Rearranging the words again, we can point the attention away from the car, towards the car's owner - Sam.

Its owner is Sam.

Notice here, that "its" is a possessive pronoun, and exactly as with yours, his, hers, ours, yours and theirs, [b]there is no apostrophe in "its"[/b].

The difference between "it's" and "its" is not as tricky as it may look at first sight, because the apostrophe is used only when you are shortening the phrase "it is".

Another way to shorten "it is" with an apostrophe, is by putting one in place of the [i]first[/i] (i) instead of the second. You'll see this in hymns, and also in poetry - " 'tis ".

This post is not directly about the apostrophe.

It's about nouns and pronouns, which are a single word, which don't end in an (s), but, which refer to more than one item or person.

An example of this is "assembly".

When we write about the assembly, or an assembly, we are referring to [b]a group[/b].

"People" is another noun which refers to more than one person, but, common usage has destroyed the old correctness of using the singular verb with it. Don't be put off by this. It should be possible to use the singular verb correctly, without looking like a lemon, if the rest of your sentence is correctly constructed.

So, when we write about these (Ooops! There's another one - "these".) for the purpose of choosing a VERB, we must NOT use the PLURAL form.

[b]If the noun is not a straightforward plural word like "trees", with an (s) at the end, then it should be treated as a singular when placing the verb[/b].

A good example of this concept used correctly, would be the word "people" The verb relating to the noun "people" is underlined.

The people [u]is[/u] tired of walking.
The people [u]moves[/u] to the hills when it's hot.

Further, this can be made into a plural of its own - "peoples".

The people[u]s[/u] of Europe [u]move[/u] freely across national boundaries.

Here are two more examples

The [b]assembly[/b] [u]is[/u] meeting in the hall.

None of [b]these[/b] [u]is[/u] the original tune.

None = not one

You should NEVER find yourself writing "none [u]are[/u]".

Exactly the same applies to the word "lot".

A "lot", apart from when referring to land (a "plot") always refers to a group.

Therefore, any sentence containing "lot" should also contain the singular form of the verb.

There [u]is[/u] [b]a lot[/b] of food left over.

There [u]are[/u] [b]lots[/b] of dishes to be washed.

We need to think about verbs that end in (ss) or (sh).

Many of these can also be a noun, so you have to think how you are using them.

For instance, a talk can be called [u]an address[/u].

But when referring to the action of the person giving [u]the address[/u], you might say:

He [u]addresses[/u] his listeners.

There, "addresses" is a verb, because that is what the man is doing.

Please listen out for these, because [b]they NEVER require an apostrophe[/b].

Instead, [b]between the (ss) at the end of the root word, and the last (s), is an (e)[/b].

Here are one or two more, but, I'd like if some [b]brave people could add just one each[/b], (so there are some easy ones left to come to mind for everyone).

[Note: not all verbs ending in (ss) or (sh) can be turned into a noun, so, if you can't think of a noun to go with it, that's ok.]

stress - stresses

gush - gushes

I'll leave the rest to you guys.

Perhaps I should have said that there is never an apostrophe attached to a verb, such as the ones in the post above, or those which end in (se) (which end with a sound like a (z) sometimes, or do, after they have had an (s) added, but, there are many strange changes to spellings and endings in some of them such as

rise - rises

but which does not add a simple (ed) in the past tense - risen or rose.

I don't want to get tangled up in these at all.

The important thing to remember is that if it is a verb, it will not have an apostrophe when you change it from

I stress

to

he stresses

OR

the hoses gush

to

the hose gushes

Note, here in both "hose" sentences, "hose" is a noun.

Here it is as a verb.

He [u]hoses[/u] mud off the elephant.

I [u]hose[/u] my vehicle [u]to rinse[/u] it.

Note: "rinse" is also a verb here.

The water [u]rinses[/u] off the detergent.

[b]You don't need any apostrophes[/b].

Is this making sense?

Remember, if you are writing the word [b]"its" you don't need an apostrophe, unless[/b] you are [i]meaning[/i] [b]"it is"[/b].

Here the apostrophe stands for (i) in "is". The short form of the phrase is written "it's".

If you are writing a poem or song, you might want to use "it is" (anywhere) but the rhythm forces you to drop the (i) in "it".

Now "it is" becomes " 'tis ". You [u]lose the space between "it" and "is"[/u].

So remember....

if the form of the [b][u]verb[/u] you are using ends in an (s), [u]it will NEVER need an apostrophe[/b][/u].

I've just cut the following from a thread where it was distinctly out of place, but, it was a spontaneous example of the apostrophe in contrast with when it is not needed.

[b]whether ours or others' or both[/b]

The above is an interesting phrase showing a possessive pronoun "ours" which does not need an apostrophe, and "others' ", which does need an apostrophe to show it's possessive......

Sorry, couldn't resist dropping the (i) in "is" to complete the example that an apostrophe can also fill the place of a missing letter... ;-)

Note: a noun only needs an apostrophe if something or someone belongs to it.

The something or someone has to be mentioned either before or after the noun which needs the apostrophe.

[b]Susan's car[/b].

In that statement "Susan" is a [i]proper[/i] noun; that is, the name of a person (or place or title), which needs a capital letter to start it.

"car" is a common noun, which never needs a capital letter.

Right at the start of the thread, the point was made that when using "Susan's" as in "Susan's car", makes "Susan's" a kind of [u]adjective[/u].

If that thought helps you separate the nouns, then [b]it is the adjective (noun) which [u]needs[/u] the apostrophe[/b].

I could write the same information this way:

[b]The car is Susan's[/b].

Now if I drop the (i) in "is", a second apostrophe is needed to show the missing letter, thus:

[b]The car's Susan's[/b].

Here is a question:

[b]Which car's Susan's?[/b]

Here is the same question with no apostrophes, but to compensate, it needs a word which means the same - in this case, "belongs":

[b]Which car belongs to Susan?[/b]

Note, the above example refers to [u]one[/u] person - Susan - and her [u]one[/u] car.

That's why the apostrophe is [u]before[/u] the (s) after Susan.

I have noticed lately that members posting messages are sloppy in their grammer. When replying to a post, please use the preview button and review what you have written to correct the necessary typos.

I enjoy looking over my work. I read it as if I were you reading it, so that I can grasp what is being presented to me.

So please if you have time, use the preview.

Thanks Beloved.

P.S. This is probably off topic, but the apostrophe is apart of good grammer. I don't like starting a new thread willy nilly, I feel like I am wasting "paper" that Greg Gordon has to pay for. So I used this thread to drop this note, Linn please forgive my intrusion.

Nile said

dorcas' thread's topic's cool!
(The topic of the thread belonging to dorcas is cool!) :-)

I often wonder if anything I wrote here was intelligible! :-?

Here is the thread we talked of yesterday in 'English Grammar - Help please' posted by hmmhmm.

I have not had time to reread it, so I'd be glad for anyone who finds glitches in how I'd explained things, or who wants to offer better explanations or examples, to go right ahead.

Other suggestions and comments also welcome.

I had it in mind to say more about [u]possessive nouns[/u] and [u]possessive pronouns[/u].

Thank you.

Before 'possessive' pronouns, here are some simple pronouns.

Y'all remember that names are nouns. Names of things are [i]commons nouns[/i], and names of places or people or titles, where a capital letter would be used, are [i]proper nouns[/i].

book
car
sock

So, rather than writing the name of an item out again and again, we mix up our use of the noun, and another word - a pronoun - which marks our attention towards that item: [i]it[/i].

There are times, though, when we deliberately use the noun again and again, for the sake of emphasis.

'Water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink.'

'it' is a [u]pronoun[/u] - [i]a word standing in [b]for[/b] the noun[/i].

Pass it on, pass it on, pass it on...

(I know... ;-) I'm not sure what the noun is either :-P ! )

Inanimate proper nouns, such as the names of houses, places, titles (Mr. Dr. Bible) and document headings, are referred to as 'it', also.

(That's right - no capital letter for that 'it'.)

Names of people, are referred to by [i]personal pronouns[/i] - I, you, he, she, they - as the person (subject) [i]acting[/i] in the sentence.

The only capital letter is 'I' (with which we are all too familiar...)

If the activity is [i]to(wards)[/i] the person, we use: me, you, him, her, them - as they are the object of the sentence.

He gave the book to me.

She gave the sock to him.

I'm (I am) giving this photograph to you.

Do you remember visiting them?

The apostrophe appears only when indicating someone's ownership of something, or, an association between an inanimate noun and another noun (or nouns - which is when it gets even more interesting).

That is John's car.

While I've been thinking about this thread, it has dawned on me that the apostrophe is a strange beast and makes very little sense at all. Who had the idea for it...? I don't know.

What is even more crazy, is that the times we are most going to use possessive pronouns, are the very times we [u]never[/u] use apostrophes.

:-o

So, here are the [i]possessive pronouns[/i].

mine
yours
his
hers
its
their
theirs
whose

Whose Bible is this?

Who's sounds just the same, but in this sentence the apostrophe covers for the dropped (i) in 'is'.

Likewise, [i]there's[/i] sounds like [i]theirs[/i], but again, the apostrophe covers the dropped (i) in 'is'.

The only way to get these right every time is to take a split-second to check what the word means in your head, then decide if you need an apostrophe. There is [u]no[/u] short cut.

Here's another place to watch out, is when a [b]noun[/b] ends in a (y), indicating one only, but you want to refer to several. A common example would be [u]country[/u] which becomes [u]countries[/u].

You should not find yourself adding the (s) without having changed the (y) to (ie). This works for most nouns ending in (y) of four, five or more letters.

Nouns of one syllable (mono-syllabic) such as [u]boy[/u], [u]toy[/u], and [u]ploy[/u] keep their (y) and you add (s) to make the plural.

boy
boys

toy
toys

ploy
ploys

joy
joys

jay
jays

This also works for nouns of more than one syllable where there is a vowel preceding the (y).

affray
affrays

trolley
trolleys

valley
valleys

gulley
gulleys

lay (song)
lays

ley (meadow)
leys

If one or two consonants precede the (y), it should be changed to (ie) before adding the (s).

lady
ladies

dolly
dollies

holy
holies

sully
sullies

misery
miseries

sty
sties

sky
skies

Listen to what you would say if you were speaking, work out if you need an apostrophe, and then, if you are using a plural noun, remember the apostrophe is at the end.

lady
lady's (only one lady here)

ladies
ladies' (more than one lady here)

country
country's (only one country here)

countries
countries' (more than one country here)

Lastly, there are a few [u]verbs[/u] ending in (y), where you don't change the (y) to (ie).

This makes a mine-field and yet another reason to hold back for a split-second to do a quick double-check before deciding you need an apostrophe.

In these, there may be a root word, which gives you the clue to right spelling.

relay
relays

bray
brays

slay
slays

but

carry
carries

marry
marries

tarry
tarries

harry
harries

Special care is needed for nouns ending in (y) which can also be verbs - like

try
tries

glory
glories

pillory
pillories

So.... looking back over this post, you will [i][b]never[/i][/b] need an apostrophe with a verb.... only, with a noun.

Thanks to all who have worked at improving their apostrophe discipline.

Feel free to PM me any time you find I've put an apostrophe enthusiastically where it doesn't belong. (I promise not to PM unless you ask.)