I have been listening to alot of Derek Prince teachings on demonology and expelling them. I have found to my experience that he is very sound on this topic. But wisdom is found in a multitude of counselors, therefore I was wondering what everyone thought about him and his ministry...
I particular want to know about the question whether or not Christians can have demons.
I'm not really familar with him. Does he believe a Christian can have demons or no?
I really rate him, I like his style.
If I am not mistaken he uses the logic, that if the word points toward a certain direction of truth it must be valid. At the same time however if another part of the word appears to indicate another aspect of the same truth he does not discredit the first position.
So in between these two points you may roam, and no further, I suppose another way of putting it is to say he does not choose calvinism or armenianism, they are both in the bible. :-)
As you can tell he is one of my favourite bible teachers.
Derek Prince
While serving with the British army in World War II, he began to study the Bible and experienced a life-changing encounter with Jesus Christ. Out of this encounter he formed two conclusions: first, that Jesus Christ is alive; second, that the Bible is a true, relevant, up-to-date book. These conclusions altered the whole course of his life. Since then, he has devoted his life to studying and teaching the Bible. He is a huge authority on Demonology and Excorcism.
He believes that demons can't be possessed but he believes they can have demons though. He makes a distinction in the greek translation of the word possesion.
3.To be demonized
G1139
δαιμονίζομαι
daimonizomai
\tTo be demonized. KJV incorrectly translates to be “possessed with devils.” There is nothing in the greek to support the use of the word “possessed,” which is completely misleading. See Matt.8:16,28,33; 9:32; 12:22; 15:22; Mark 1:32; 5:15, 16, 18; Luke 8:36
He states that there is not implication of possession in the greek in either this word or in any other of the words used to describe those who have demonic problems.
If you have time listen to this teaching and let me know what you think...
ZekeO,
I agree with you it seems that he has a balanced view on many different things. Did you happen to ever listen to any of his 'deliverance teachings' which he seems to be balanced in as well?
I cannot remember too many details, but I do know it was one of the people God used to place some good theology in me. He is very methodical about it, and I can't imagine him getting wound up casting devils out/off people.
Forevidence wrote:
ZekeO,I agree with you it seems that he has a balanced view on many different things. Did you happen to ever listen to any of his 'deliverance teachings' which he seems to be balanced in as well?
I think what makes me like him is what you mentioned in your previous post about him. He learned greek as a scholar and not as a seminary student. This I feel gives him allot of credence to his understanding of greek tenses and meaning. He read the greek, with the understanding of the language not necessarily looking for the greek to mean something based upon his pet theology.
and I can't imagine him getting wound up casting devils out/off people.
Wow!That is suprising. He mostly known for doing that! You need to listen to that teaching that I put below in my presvious posts.
Forevidence wrote
This makes sense from my experience. Demons affect the way a person thinks, and being freed from a demon affects how the person thinks afterwards. It is theHe believes that demons can't be possessed but he believes they can have demons though. He makes a distinction in the greek translation of the word possesion.3.To be demonized
G1139
δαιμονίζομαι
daimonizomai
To be demonized. KJV incorrectly translates to be “possessed with devils.” There is nothing in the greek to support the use of the word “possessed,” which is completely misleading. See Matt.8:16,28,33; 9:32; 12:22; 15:22; Mark 1:32; 5:15, 16, 18; Luke 8:36He states that there is not implication of possession in the greek in either this word or in any other of the words used to describe those who have demonic problems.
ZekeO said
Sounds good. I see where you're coming from, and agree.I think what makes me like him is what you mentioned in your previous post about him. He learned greek as a scholar and not as a seminary student. This I feel gives him allot of credence to his understanding of greek tenses and meaning. He read the greek, with the understanding of the language[b]not necessarily looking for the greek to mean something based upon his pet theology[/b] .
Hmm.. I don't think I Christian can "have" a demon. I think a Christian can be oppressed, in other words torrmented or pressured by one.
I just don't think that a demon can be 'in' a Christian. I just don't think the Holy Ghost and demons get along to well under the same roof. ;-)
Hi, I don't know anything about this person's theology etc but, I do agree with the impetus of the views on this thread that a Christian can not be possessed by a demon. I came to Christ through dabbling in the occult; what I experienced at my conversion made me come to the conclusion that true possession of a true Christian is impossible.
Thanks for your testimony. Praise God that God delivered you from the demonic when you first got saved. But there are others on this site and in other places that have a testimony that differ and happen to be on the other side of the argument as well.
Forevidence wrote:
Thanks for your testimony. Praise God that God delivered you from the demonic when you first got saved. But there are others on this site and in other places that have a testimony that differ and happen to be on the other side of the argument as well.
Are you sure that they are'nt just confusing being demon oppressed with demon posessed?
Well according to Derek Prince the word 'possessed' doesn't even exist in the greek language.
Evangelical Dictionary of Theology says:
The specilaized expression for Demon possession(daimonizomai) is not found in the scriptures. Scholars trace it to Josephus. The common synoptic construction is daimonion echein(to have a demon).
Greek expressions and words describing demons and their influence:
A.\tTerminology
1.\t“Devil” (Greek diablos)= Slanderer, a title of Satan himself.
Used only in the singular.
2.\t“Demon” (Greek diamon or diamonio): A spirit regarded by heathen as divine or semi-divine. Heathen religion normally cultivates or seeks to appropriate these ‘demons.’
3.\tWrongly translated in KJV as ‘devil’ or ‘devils.’ Used interchangeably with ‘evil spirit’ or ‘unclean spirit’ (compare Matt 15:22 with Mark 7:25; Mark 5:2 with Luke 8:27. See also Rev. 16:13-14.)
B.\tThree different greek expressions normally used to describe the influence of demons
1.\tTo have an unlcean/evil spirit. See Matt. 11:18; Mark 7:25; 9:17; Luke 4:33; 8:27; 13:11; John 7:20; 8:48-49, 52; 10:20-21
2.\tTo be in an unclean/evil spirit (Modern English-to be under the influence of.) See Mark 1:23; 5:2
3.\tTo be demonized. KJV incorrectly translates to be “possessed with devils.” There is nothing in the greek to support the use of the word “possessed,” which is completely misleading. See Matt. 2:24;8:16,28,33; 9:32; 12:22; 15:22; Mark 1:32; 5:15, 16, 18; Luke 8:36
Forevidence,Well according to Derek Prince the word 'possessed' doesn't even exist in the greek language.
I'm glad you're purusing a truly biblical search for understanding on this. I'm willing to change how I describe my testimony of deliverance from the influence of 'demons', but I'm aware from my reading - particularly of The Roaring Lion by missionaries to Borneo, that there is a hierarchical and geographical 'territory' associated with some spirits, and some do not venture 'into' the person at all.
That there are differences in the manifestion of demonic influence, is clear from scripture. Also, Jesus said
Matthew 17:21
Howbeit this kind goeth not [b]out
Is the word 'out' correct?
That there are differences in the manifestion of demonic influence, is clear from scripture. Also, Jesus said
Matthew 17:21
Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
Is the word 'out' correct?
The word used here does mean 'to make go out', or even discharge as in bodily discharge. The Greek word is used several times in the NT but never (as far as I can see) gives the impression of casting off rather than casting out. The problem is though it doesn't resolve the debate as to whether Christians can be possessed or not. I know that there are two sides to the debate but, I still find it difficult to square the idea of Christian possession with my own experience. but, of course it is the word of God that is the arbiter not my experience. I would not wish to be dogmatic on it until I had thought and prayed it through for a time. But, I do feel a strong conviction my self, if that makes any sense. :-)
Luk 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
Luk 19:45 And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought; 46 Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.
It is interesting to see that Luke uses the same phrase "cast out" to describe not only Jesus exercising demons out of somebody, but at the same time used for the temple cleansing scene in the gospels. The same greek term is used in each, "ekBallo." ekBallo is a compound verb coming from the greek preposition "ek" meaning "out." Ballo is a greek verb that literally means "to throw." Thus, when Jesus set individuals free from demons, he literally threw them out of a person much as he did the moneychangers from the temple.
My understanding of this is that Christians can (and most certainly are on a regular basis) attacked and oppressed by demonic forces.
Possessed? No.
Oppressed? Yes.
That is, as far as a believer is concerned. I have been witness of such oppression as well as subject to both physical and mental oppression.
The difference here is that, demonic presence in the believer's life is "cast out" in a sense that they are more so "cast away" rather than the "cast out" which implies that they were manifested in them. They cannot enter the body when the believer is already filled in Spirit.
(Example: You cannot fill a cup that is already overflowing. There is no more room for such a manifestation.)
This is not always so in the life of a non-believer. They are easily overcome by that presence because they are not filled, are not overflowing and thus, can be filled with other manifestations other than the Holy Spirit. Every other "religion" in the world has a "born again" experience. Even those that do not believe in GOD have these "born again" experiences. But these "experiences" are just that, they are not real. Just a ploy from Lucifer himself to keep them from salvation and the truth.
The non-believer is not filled and is thus an empty cup, leaving room for "possession." Possession, I believe, is merely a word to describe the internal [u]oppression
In Christ,
Scroggins
There is big difference between an empty cup and a body.They cannot enter the body when the believer is already filled in Spirit.
When making such a bold statement - a Christian [i]cannot
I don't dispute that the Holy Spirit is stronger than any other spirit, but, we know the blood of the Lamb shields our Father's sensibilities from seeing us in our sin, and not all demonic opposition is because of sin. Some of it is because of past trauma, and some of it is simply [i][b] because
Whatever ground, or 'room' there is in our temple, which is vulnerable to be taken, or, is already a stronghold when we come to Christ, can be delivered into the freedom and healing which Jesus brings.
To dismiss all the testimony from Christians who were delivered from a spirit which continually or intermittently molested their peace, their sanity, the emotional equilibrium or the desires of their body, is to leave them without hope of [u]ever
This simply is [i]not
It doesn't matter if they 'say' they are or are not a Christian. What matters more, is that one of God's children needs His help and our help, to connect them with the power to free them from bondage.
...Christians can (and most certainly are on a regular basis) attacked and oppressed by demonic forces.Possessed? No.
Oppressed? Yes.
Our bodies, metaphorically, much like a cup (as believers and Christians) are filled and OVERFLOWING with the Holy Spirit. Nothing else may be inside of us but the Holy Spirit.
But when not filled and OVERFLOWING with the Holy Spirit, but dead in Spirit, tell me what lives inside? What protects us from such a thing like "possession?" Nothing Dear Sister.
Demons are real, oppression is real, deliverance is real. Whether you be a Christian or not, and whether you believe it is real or not. [b]IT [i]IS
When making such a bold statement - a Christian cannot experience 'internal oppression' from any evil spirit - you are creating a huge problem for those men and women who are following Christ to the best of their ability, but battling with overwhelming spiritual opposition, which they alone cannot shift.
Dear Sister, what problem? If they are filled with the Holy Spirit of our GOD, Jesus Christ, then how can there be another which is not of GOD within? There cannot be. And it is true they cannot shift the battle alone, for Lucifer is strong. Stronger than any man. But Christ is stronger and HIS Holy Spirit is with us. Demonic presence cannot enter a [i]real
True Sister, not all oppression is due to disobedience. Some is attack because you do what is right, and because you follow GOD. But remember, when Christ was on the cross, when HE came to this hell bound earth, HE won the battle already! We have already won. Do not let yourselves be slaves to lies that Satan would whisper in your ear and have you believe them. You are redeemed, you will not see spiritual decay. I pray that anyone oppressed would cast these oppressors aside and not let them march over you anymore.
I have been attacked by demonic entities, both physically and mentally. I have seen these demons for what they are, as if I saw flesh and blood. I have talked with these demons, and I have seen their faces inside those that would deny Christ when being spoken to of HIS grace in salvation.
I have encountered IN MY OWN WALK, much demonic oppression both on myself and on others and do not make these claims without knowledge of them.
Sister, and for that matter, EVERYONE. Forgive me if I misunderstand what you say as a rebuking statement. Forgive me if I am too harsh with my words and cause wound or scar. I do not wish to damage the hearts of HIS saints and would rather suffer in hell for all eternity than to do so.
Hi Scroggins,
I realise the appeal of insisting that anyone who is demonically oppressed and losing the battle, is not a real Christian, but, that implication is most unhelpful. The only hope a person has, is that the trust they've put in Christ, that He can make good for them.
Here, really I'm talking about the psychological warfare of victory, and that's all. I believe that those, as it were, outside the person who needs deliverance, cannot and should not, offer to tamper with the basis of their belief that Jesus can release them, by suddenly, right in the middle of battle, bringing up the possibility they are not a Christian. They have enough mental struggle, without having their heart towards God questioned.
OF COURSE, they will see more clearly and feel they know Him better and believe with less effort, after they are free, but, before then the only boat which needs to be rocked, is the oppressor's. Do you see what I mean?
And no, you were not harsh.
I realise the appeal of insisting that anyone who is demonically oppressed and losing the battle, is not a real Christian, but, that implication is most unhelpful. The only hope a person has, is that the trust they've put in Christ, that He can make good for them.
Sister,
I think you misunderstand what it is I proposed. I [i]did not[i]am not
But in reality what I propose is, that for those that are oppressed have not realized that they have already won through Christ. I myself right now am trusting the Lord in my own battles, ones that I were losing. And I am by no means, a non-believer.
Also what I say is that there is a difference between the oppression of a believer as opposed to a non-believer. It goes a bit like this.
_____________________________________
Believer:
Can be OPPRESSED, but cannot have a demon manifested itself within him/her. But rather the oppression is external. Mental oppression on the other hand is another story and gets a bit more complicated. The mental oppression for a believer is not from an "internal demonic oppression" but rather from ones that are dubbed "Oppressor", name by which they gave as was commanded of them in Christ's name.
Non-believer:
Can be both OPPRESSED and "POSSESSED." Both being able to have demonic oppression physically, mentally and manifested istelf INSIDE them. i.e. "internal demonic oppression." (also known as "Possession")
_____________________________________
I believe that those, as it were, outside the person who needs deliverance, cannot and should not, offer to tamper with the basis of their belief that Jesus can release them, by suddenly, right in the middle of battle, bringing up the possibility they are not a Christian. They have enough mental struggle, without having their heart towards God questioned.OF COURSE, they will see more clearly and feel they know Him better and believe with less effort, after they are free, but, before then the only boat which needs to be rocked, is the oppressor's. Do you see what I mean?
No sister, I imply no such thing to tamper with the belief that Jesus will deliver whose whom are in need of it.
A Christian is a Christian, and should not be swayed by the efforts of Lucifer to believe otherwise due to oppression. While it is good to examine yourself and make sure that all is right between yourself and GOD. Still DO NOT LISTEN to the lies that Satan whispers regarding the doubts in your own salvation. If you feel the need, [b]Pray
Yes Sister, Amen, we do need to rock the oppressor's boat. Satan himself will flee in the very mention of the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord, his Lord. Satan is no more than an unruly servant himself and cannot stand up to the power of Christ our GOD.
I see what you say dear Sister. But perhaps you may want to re-read what I have said, in light of the clarification I hope I have brought to my arguement.
Feel free to make me clarify what I say untill you can [b]clearly
In HIS Love,
Scroggins
Hi, I just want to clarify a comment I posted earlier. I do not believe a Christian can be possessed by a demon but, I do believe a Christian can be oppressed by a demon or demonic forces. Those Christians delivered from demons are, in my view, delivered from oppression not possession. I did not wish to imply that those who needed deliverance were not Christians; only that they were not possessed. I'm truly sorry if I offended anyone!
Scroggins and leaf,
I hear what you are saying and thank you both for helpful clarifications. particularly with regard to not challenging a person's belief system, who claims to be a Christian, right when they need help to win against the enemy.
However, I testify to you in Jesus Name, that the body is not an empty vessel like a cup, which is either partly full or full of the Holy Ghost only, or, has nothing spiritual in it, or, has bad spirits in it, or oppressing it.
Bad spirits do (or can) affect [i]parts of the body[i]the body
I 'hear' that the word for 'possession' is not in the Greek, and I can go along with that, because the Holy Spirit is always going to be more powerful than a demon. But exactly [i]because
There is a great verse at the beginning of Psalm 24: The earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof.
If you can bear with these two pictures - the earth - Adam, formed from the dust of the ground - and Canaan, the promised land - [i]both
Can you see, using these two pictures, how the liberation of Canaan into Israel's hands, is a picture of the liberation from domination by sin, of the human body? The overcoming and slaying of 'enemies' - strongholds, as Paul calls them in 2 Cor 10 - is part of the normal Christian life.
Most of us have strongholds that cross between the mind and the body - attitudes to what we might legitimately think / think about, or how we might spend our time [i]doing
Simply because Paul does not mention 'demon' in his reference to casting down strongholds, does not mean there is no spirital influence in them, but, I fully agree that God [b]places
I do see the blood as instrumental in winning the battles. While [i]will[i]decide[i]willpower
Many Christians, it seems, do not really understand they can be set free from the propensity to sin. This seems to be because of crazy doctrinal disputes, which move them off the ground of scripture, or, of a lack of knowledge of scripture, or simply not being able / willing to believe it when preached properly to them. I don't know. I'm only guessing, really. I just know what God has done for me, and that if He could deliver me, as a Christian, from all that was thrown at me and found a resting place in my life, then, He can deliver anyone who wants His liberty.
2 Corinthian 10
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, [b]when your obedience is fulfilled
Fulfilling obedience, is the same picture as bringing forth fruits meet for repentance. God expects to see a change working through to one's outward life, where others also will see it.
I've watched this thread as it were from a distance not knowing if it would be prudent to add to it. I will add an illustration, not to what has already been stated, but to add to the topic at hand. I've observed individuals who have, for what ever reason, not taken up the shield of faith which quenches the fiery darts of the devil, and become demonized (I'm not even going to get into the whole area of flesh vs besetting sins and weights etc...). Now I liken that to the picture of (please forgive me in this illustration) a little 2year old who while shopping with his mother desides to take on a fit for something he/she wants or desires to exercise thier will against the mothers will. At that point the contest is on. The future happiness of the mother is greatly dependant upon the success of that mother at such points in time. Its much the same in the christians life. A christian has the authority to overcome all evil spirits. Going back to our illustration, you'll observe that at time that 2 year old just won't relent or let up. (I'm going to take this a different direction from spanking - correcting - or removing the child, ignoring etc...). In those cases you'll observe that often an Older woman will sometimes come to the help of the mother with the difficult child. She comes along side of that mother as a helper. I'll let you guys fill in the blanks. Some times a neighbor to, the mother with a difficult child, will just speak a word to that child to distract him/her from thier tantrum and in that gives the mother time to re-group her emotions and mental state long enough to get a fresh grip on the matter at hand. This illustration of demonized is one which I have always understood as accurate in most (Not All) cases where a christian is vexed or demonized. (I'm not going to approach the subject of sin, flesh, or weights vs demonization, neither am I going to approach the way demons identify with the individual or the ranks of demons).
However, I testify to you in Jesus Name, that the body is not an empty vessel like a cup, which is either partly full or full of the Holy Ghost only, or, has nothing spiritual in it, or, has bad spirits in it, or oppressing it.
We must for this conversation define what it means to have the Holy Spirit. Where is it that this Holy Spirit dwells?
The Holy Spirit dwells within us. But untill we are born again in Christ we are dead. Being dead Spiritually speaking means that we do not have the Holy Spirit filling us. We are indeed vessels. When filled with the Holy Spirit, there can be nothing else within us.
So if that is true, and we cannot have anything in us other than the Holy Spirit (only when we are in Christ), then how can Christians still be plagued by demonic forces?
Before I go on with this one part, I must say what muddies up the water for everyone else who is a real Christian on this topic is the simple fact that you do, in today's age, see a lot of so called "Christians", demonized or whatever you may have it. You see countless self proclaimed Christians under demonic control. And that is because of the mere TRUTH that not everyone who is a "Christian" really is. And there will be those that are "possessed", as you will, that claim to be. Which in turn makes everything a bit harder for everyone else to discern on this topic.
Now we know that most oppression comes from two things. Disobedience to the Lord, whether it be past things that have not been layed to rest, or events of recent. And oppression due to your being a believer who is doing GOD's will.
But oppression for a saved individual is not "possession." And everyone here can attest that having influence is not the same as having control either.
So can Christians be influenced by demons?
Yes, they can be influenced by demons, if they do not discern and test all things with the full Armor of GOD.
But "possession" once again is only a word [u]for the lack of a better term.
Bad spirits do (or can) affect parts of the body with specific bondages due to past sins or invisible injuries, which Jesus Christ can free the body from, if the person is willing.
Sister, this is 100% correct. I do not disagree with you in the slightest.
I 'hear' that the word for 'possession' is not in the Greek, and I can go along with that, because the Holy Spirit is always going to be more powerful than a demon. But exactly because the Holy Spirit is always more powerful than a demon, there is, in my understanding, no conflict in the thesis that the body can be a battleground, whether a Christian's body or a non-Christian's body.
Yes, there is not a word like that in greek. The term "possession" is for lack of better terms to describe what kind of casting out has been done in some cases.
The body (Christian or not) a battleground?
Yes and no. Yes it is a battle ground. But not in the way we would think. As REAL Christians, demons may attack our bodies and minds but can not control them. They can trick us, hurt us physically and even mentally, tell us things or control people around us that are unsaved to hurt us / tempt us. It does happen. But as a person born again in Christ, it is vital to remember that they only have as much power over you as you allow them in a sense that is dependant on Christ.
The only control that a demon has over a person Alive in Christ is the submission to the demonic oppression.
Romans 6:16
"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves, servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness."
___________________________________________
Romans 8:5-8
"For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."
___________________________________________
Galatians 5:24
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts"
___________________________________________
James 4:7
"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."
___________________________________________
Luke 10:18-19
"And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you."
Hi Scroggins,When filled with the Holy Spirit, there can be nothing else within us.So if that is true, and we cannot have anything in us other than the Holy Spirit
This quote from you is theory..... well-embraced, reasoned and believed-in ...... but theory nevertheless.
Look at how Legion ran to meet Jesus AND WORSHIPPED HIM. But, he was full of demons by whatever definition anyone uses.
Mark 5:6
But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
I don't have anything more to say at this time, but, because I believe you are fairly new to this site, are you aware there is an old thread about the difference between being filled with the Holy Spirit, and being baptised in the Holy Spirit? I admit I have not read it all, but, it is a deep and useful discussion.
Yes, but even Satan himself is accountable to Christ. Christ is supreme... Christ is GOD. Make no mistake, demons do recognize the deity of Jesus. They know of HIS power and are still under HIS authority.
And yes, there is a distinction. When we are saved we recieve the Holy Spirit and are thus filled. But in the Baptism by fire, we have the Spirit active in our lives, like being released from a cage. It begins to actually play more of a role in our lives so much more than we do ourselves because we have given ourselves up.
Scroggins,Yes, but even Satan himself is accountable to Christ. Christ is supreme... Christ is GOD. Make no mistake, demons do recognize the deity of Jesus. They know of HIS power and are still under HIS authority.
I agree wholeheartedly.
My experience of deliverance, though, is that I knew far more about how I'd been affected [i]after
I think there is the idea in most people's minds that if someone is being troubled by a spirit, they are at least partly culpable for letting that spirit so close.
No-one seems to understand, that people can just find themselves [i]struggling
There's a great deal I don't know about how I got free - or, as free as I am now - except to say that I did not rule out spiritual bondage, and I DID put myself completely in God's hands to [b]be
Yes. The Name of Jesus is Supreme and well able to break the powers which oppose His reign. Amen.
AMEN SISTER LINN!!!!
"The Lord Himself is witness that we have the case of the woman who went to the theatre and came back possessed. Accordingly, in the exorcism, when the unlcean spirit was rebuked for having dared to attack a believer, he firmly replied, "And in truth I did it most lawfully, for I found her in my domain."
-Tertullian(Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs)
I think that the term "possessed" once again must be clarified for all of us.
Possession implies absolute control over...
POSSES'SION, n. The having, holding or detention of property in one's power or command; actual seizin or occupancy, either rightful or wrongful. One man may have the possession of a thing, and another may have the right of possession or property.
A Christian cannot be possessed at all ever. That word does not even exist in the original greek of our manuscripts as I stated earlier...
Evangelical Dictionary of Theology says:The specilaized expression for Demon possession(daimonizomai) is not found in the scriptures. Scholars trace it to Josephus. The common synoptic construction is daimonion echein(to have a demon)
The word opression doesn't exist throughout in the New Testament ever.
Neither does the word possess according to the above the statement.
All we are left with is the verb that describes "to have" an unclean spirit. Or to be attacked vexed by spirit.
On top of that was the man with deaf and dumb spirit completely controlled by that spirit?
Mat 12:22 Then was brought to him a demoniac, blind and dumb, and he healed him, so that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. (YLT) Young's Literal Translation
No, only has vocal and optic areas were under control.
Nowhere in the scripture does in imply that even non-believers are fully controlled by demons, or possessed wholly. Many people that have demons have many reasoning faculties and other operative functions to carry out their normal life.
The extreme case wpuld be the Gadaresene. And that is the man we think about the most when thinking of demoniac's.
But even he went running to Jesus! Why would demons, a legion, cause a man to run to Jesus. They would rather run. I think the text implies the man had control of his body but not entirely, hence the struggle between him and the demons by going to Jesus.
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