The ministry of music (or not)

God bless you all. I have something I would like to share that is a great cause for concern.
I am a minister of music, and I mean that in a very real way, not by church title but I am gifted of God to minister in music in His ability He has graced me with.
I have been for the last two years on assignment at a local body of believers, with the burden to administer the true worship which is "in spirit and in truth". We (they are two of us on this assignment)have constantly been in battle for this presidence to be set.
It has been tough when coming against so many different mindsets but we have seen God move in a mighty way.
The latest problem that has been posed though has caused me great concern. We have labored and toiled for a while, really understanding the need and laboring as such, in prayer, in worship, in spiritual warfare, but one of the pastors (there are two) decides that we must "move forward" in the area of music. Ok fine. He brings a new singer to sing with the praise team. He sings very well, but we immediately see he is operating out of a spirit of entertainment. As a musician and a seeker of truth, this is vexing, but the people love it. But those that are really in tune know that there is a problem, but...
He has an extensive conversation with the paster and now Mr Entertainment is over the whole music department. Just like that...He comes in first rehearsal, says a ten second prayer and now wants to institude professionalism and other stuff, but what makes a worship team is..err...worship, right? Reverance for God..haven't seen it yet. We voice our concerns to the pastor with truth, in love, with hard evidence, but to no avail...he's sticking to it. Next Sunday... the people love it, but we all know this is wrong. I know this is long but God bless if you choose to hear this to the end.
Now, here is the thing. As a minister of music (not be church title, but under God)I play the instrument (keyboard, piano) as unto the Lord. God manifests often. People have taken that and have sought to ride the anointing for their own purposes. I am not going to be a vehicle again to make another agenga other than God's shine. Do anybody feel me on this? A leader has sold out because of what he sees and the people, but now there is a compromise in what worship is, which is all I want to do. Is my playing now compromised if I follow this folly? Is it time to resign?
I must that it's not about who is in position, nor do I feel "shafted", but my zeal is for the house of God. and resigning, not as in from a paying position, I didn't accept a salary, so that there would be any chance of any "control" or "I pay you, so I should expect..." type of business. Anyway, any thoughts?

Hi brother, God bless you!
Here you can find some good thoughts about entertainmnent in the church from A.W.Tozer - [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2825&forum=23&55]A.W.Tozer on entertainment[/url]

Thank-you,
I hope it doesn't sound like I'm griping or complaining, but for some reason this thing is ever increasing, but I know there are those who still hunger for true worship, God bless.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm griping or complaining

oh brother, not at all.
I can hear your heart.

well Tears_of_joy, I'm encouraged. Thanks for taking the time.

We have, however, been commisioned by God to move like the ark, and Friday we are hosting a praise and worship service. We will not be limited to time, and agendas, but are preparing our hearts, yielding ourselves to whatever God wants. This is our first in a couple of years, but there is a greater understanding of God's heart. We want the blinded eyes to be opened and the captives to be set free. THIS is what I live for, but as far as what is happening otherwise, I know God will make His will clear, whether I must shake the dust off, or fight a little longer...God is sovereign, and still in control.
God bless again and may he bless you and your ministry above and beyond your expectations, according to His divine power that is at work in you. ;-) amen.

I would encourage you to press into Jesus in your prayer closet and wait until you get direction on what to do. He is faithful to provide an answer.

My wife is a very gifted musician and I understand the "entertainment" angle. It grieves the Spirit and makes the worship shallow.

I pray that your praise will be used by the Spirit to convict hearts and wake-up those who are sleeping and call the unsaved to the cross. Blessings to you.

I admit at first I thought this post was...well, I just kind of didn't know what to expect, but I have been blessed by the posts, and am settling back into what I know works, and like you say, it is in the prayer closet. We all meet at "rehearsal" tonight, and I'm not sure what will take place, but I do know where I am called, and your prayer, that commission, is what I will hold unto.
God bless.

Hi NONE4ME,

There was an incident in the book of Acts were some of the brethren were ministering for the Lord and experienced some difficulty with the authorities and were arrested. Eventually they were released upon the wise words of one of the arresting officers. "If this is from God you will not be able to stop it" They were beaten and sent home, but after a little prayer they went back out and continue speaking boldly in the name of Jesus. (sorry, I did not have time to look it up in the Word, it is sleep time, but I wanted to share this with you.)

Do no be afraid, what can man do, if God is with you. Peace my friend, the advice to prayer and armour is good, I too have been in Christian ministry for some years and will remember you as God prompts me in prayer.

In the Lamb,
Aeryck

Brohter, have you heard one of these messages:

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=4224]The Power of Prayer (video)[/url] by Keith Daniel
[b]Description:[/b] This is a powerful video preached at brother Bill Gothard's church. This is part of Keith Daniel's 13th visit to America and he gives a solemn warning to the Church of Jesus Christ we must pray before its too late. There is a digression in the sermon on the topic of music but its application finds itself in that the church should not use wordly methods to win the world it will not work! The main thrust of the sermon is preached from ephesians 6 and the emphasis is that the church needs to get into warfare on their knees.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=1865]Finished with the World[/url] by Keith Daniel
[b]Description:[/b] There is something very potent and powerful about this message. Its one of Keith Daniels first visits to America and this message calls for a great consecration and call back to apostolic Chrisitanity in our daily practice. Are you finished with the world? Don't listen to this message unless you are willing to be impacted and changed in very powerul way.

I believe they will be great encouragement to you. In both of them brother Keith is mentioning about music and he gives good examples. Life changing sermons.

Kire

You know, I should have known the lines would have to be drawn some where. Thanks for the reminder about the persecution and when I read that it brought me to a place of worship and humility, and reverence that my God has counted me worthy of this; to stand and be a witness in this time and in this season. The guys in Acts were not living for themselves and that was very notable to all.
I am honored to have been bestowed upon me such "rich" ministry today.
and concerning Keith Daniels, I heard one (the video) and I must say, his stand for righteousness, and eschewing (I think i spelled that right) his intolerance for evil is what stood out to me, and his zeal for the holiness of God. It is a "mantle" to carry, but for the cross.
This has been really the theme of this whole ordeal and from there I take me position. If it is to speak, or if it is for me to die some more, or take a stand that will leave me unpopular, then maybe wanted that sacrifice from me too.
My comfort, maybe that too, but all "that I may know Him, and the power of the ressurection, and the fellowship of the suffering being made conformable to His death... and be found ...in Him, not having my own righteousness.
I receive all the comments, and welcome more, will tell you the outcome. God bless.

None4me,

I agree with the idea that you should wait for the Lord you show you your specific course of action.

However, I can relate to the grievous confusion that trying to "worship" in this environment can create. There is so much Sunday morning strife over technical issues like stage volume, faulty pre-amps, dead 9-volt batteries, monitor complaints, blah blah. Worship team prayer is reduced to a frazzled pre-show huddle, "Lord please help us stay focused on you in spite of all the chaos and technical problems we've invited into your sanctuary." All of this vanity is sold to the musicians under euphemistic catch phrases like "Excellence for Christ" or "why should the world have more quality?" After playing the set, the musicians all file out through the side stage door confessing to one another their sins of wrong chords and missed cues. Usually, every talented singer is called "anointed" and every loud song is called "powerful" by the guy stepping up to the podium to give the morning announcements. During the sermon the 'engineer' behind the soundboard is busy leafing through the latest issue of "Sound and Stage" magazine, dreaming of that next piece of fabulous gear. After the service someone drops a complaint card saying that the music just wasn't as "prophetic" as Morningstar's worship CD's...

Just another weekend rockin' the suburbs in America, where faith is the latest style of things hoped for...not the substance.

Yeah, I feel your grieved heart on this situation brother.

MC

it would be great if the worship team could sing off to the side instead having a main stage, like a concert. i think this would help people take the focus off the worship team and truly give glory to God and not man. i believe this also would help the worship team not to get prideful and desire fame, to be seen, and applause from men. i know it would be hard for my flesh to handle if i was in a worship band playing in front of people and seeing hands raise up towards me. i would want to sing to the side or in back in fear i may take His glory for myself. you would definetly have to be in Him because the flesh loves attention and fame.

didn't the levites do it that way in the temple? i could be wrong, but i thought i read somewhere that they sang off to the side.

none4me, i truly understand the grievance. i have wept many times in the church i use to go too. one of the reasons why i wept much was because it was very obviouse that the worship team there wanted God's glory for themselves. i've had many sleepless nights because of this grievance. God used me to speak to the worship team about their falsehood, but they just did not listen. i was hated by many of the artists in my church. this church was all about entertainment. they didn't give heed to God's warning now they are no more and all the people scattered.

pray much and abide in Him where you are consume with the jelousy of God that the glory would be given all to Him and not man.

I haven't had time to read through the other posts so I'm sorry if I repeat what someone else has said.

I appreciate your heart here brother. I do feel that the Levites gave us a good pattern in the music ministries. However I want to make just a couple of observations you might want to consider. The American church has delegated our times of praise as worship, and while worship can be praise and music, it's also so much more. I believe if I were you I would continue to keep my eyes on the Lord of Glory and seek to lead others into the presence of God using your talent, on a personal note?> This could be an opportunity for you to take up the cross of Christ and bow your will to the God who Judges in righteousness. As the story goes, in all FBI training in learning to detect counterfiet bills, what they do is study the real article or bill, than when they know the geniune dollar they can easily detect the counterfiet.

Even though the church has been moving toward entertainment, there have been large numbers of saints growing more discontent with all that stuff"! You know what I mean. You just continue to give a cup of cold water in Jesus' and keep your heart from offense, which will poison thoughs waters. I'll also pray for you and ask the Father to give you wisdom in what you should do and how you should handle this event in your life of ministry. God Bless

Hi Dozman, how you been doing brother.
Peace, Aeryck.

Tears_of_joy wrote:
Brohter, have you heard one of these messages:

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=4224]The Power of Prayer (video)[/url] by Keith Daniel
[b]Description:[/b] This is a powerful video preached at brother Bill Gothard's church. This is part of Keith Daniel's 13th visit to America and he gives a solemn warning to the Church of Jesus Christ we must pray before its too late. There is a digression in the sermon on the topic of music but its application finds itself in that the church should not use wordly methods to win the world it will not work! The main thrust of the sermon is preached from ephesians 6 and the emphasis is that the church needs to get into warfare on their knees.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=1865]Finished with the World[/url] by Keith Daniel
[b]Description:[/b] There is something very potent and powerful about this message. Its one of Keith Daniels first visits to America and this message calls for a great consecration and call back to apostolic Chrisitanity in our daily practice. Are you finished with the world? Don't listen to this message unless you are willing to be impacted and changed in very powerul way.

I believe they will be great encouragement to you. In both of them brother Keith is mentioning about music and he gives good examples. Life changing sermons.

Kire

Hi Kire,

I second that. Not just because he is from my country, but because I first listened to Finished with the world, and it challenged me to my roots. Though you are right about the first sermon taking a bit of digression, it still raises a very valid point about keeping the spirit of entertainment out of one's ministry. (the part where he talks about his children growing up in the ministry, and how easy it is to slip into the people praise, I think that was it, it's been awhile. Also he says some amazing stuff about the British Royals and Billy Graham witnessing to them in his early years... 8-)

I remember a sermon Derek Prince preached about music and something about fire and the altar...I forget now. (also relating to music...)

I still think Steve Camp's Thesis 107 - brings so much more to light, being musician an all, I applaude his insights/insider information. ;-)

Here is the link to Steve's 107 thesis. Peace

Brother,

You have company...Your post reminded me of Dan Lucarini who wrote the book: "Why I Left the Contemporary Christian Music Movement: Confessions of a Former Worship Leader". (This book can be purchased from Amazon.) I would encourage you to get his book, read it and perhaps you will find yourself communicating with Bro. Dan on this issue. I think you will find him a person easy to talk to...I visited with him after he spoke at our church convention a few years ago.

Now about the entertainment aspect of it, I would like to share an observation. I have served as a volunteer at a Crises Pregnancy Center for many years. One day I got an inspiration and asked my clients "why do you go to church?" I asked several this question and I always got the same reaction and same answer. Reaction: they would sit there and think first - like as though they were a tad bit confused, then replied "it the music I enjoy!" This was NOT the answer I was expecting, sir! Brother, immorality is rampant in these churches and people love to go there because they love the music!

Years ago, revivalists used to say the right choice of music will greatly enhance their sermon. Some have also said music is a powerful means of bring about conviction in the hearts of people. History informs us how the old time evangelists utilized the talents of Holy Spirit inspired musicians to lead the music. Some even wrote their music and taught it to their audiences.

My question: what is wrong with church music that only entertains people? Is there not something very wrong when it makes unrepentant sinners comfortable instead of bringing conviction to them?

ginnyrose

Hi Ginnyrose,

You hit the nail on the head:

My question: what is wrong with church music that only entertains people? Is there not something very wrong when it makes unrepentant sinners comfortable instead of bringing conviction to them?

I recall reading something that Larry Norman said, and then listening to a recent interview where he reminisses about how he actually fired many of the musicians at Solid Rock Records because they were no longer preaching Christ. They had begun to become no different than their pop and rock equivalents in the music industry they had emerged from. We have a lot to be grateful for, that there are many who heeded his and others warnings as well as others like Steve Camp who have committed to thesis 107 (reminscent of Martin Luther's 95 thesis, and are lifting Jesus up for the world to see.

Sometimes the lines get blurred in trying to crossover and reach out into the darkness, but we are told to be salt, so there is the real edge, not to compromise but to keep talking about Jesus !

I know what I have to do. I have to take all these thoughts to the closet and let the Lord convict me too, I need to change, not to sell out!

Thanks for that Ginnyrose.

In Christ,
Aeryck
:-P

The saga continues...
I was able to get alone before the Lord, and he had me write down my burdens and He every one. This guy is a "hireling", but I still see there is no reverence to God. The pastor was so adamant in getting "order" that he has this guy on salary. He even questioned people asking about Mr. Entertainment's spirituality, but it's too aparrent. I'm afraid leadership, as well as the people have mistaken the flare, the exitement for the anointing, but I recall Art Katz (another ministry that has really helped me in this season) saying about keeping your soul still in the midst of the hoopla. If it is of God, then your spirit will be in agreement, but more times than not, I have found myself sitting like a bump on the log wondering if something was wrong with me. It has been uncomfortable, and when you have to serve in such a ministry, you have to stay on fire, and continue to fight lest you find yourself conforming, selling out as it was mentioned earlier.
It is also now apparrant that the pastor would love to clear out all the singers and start over with Fred(praise leader) and myself, but it won't gel. I can't agree to that
"Rehearsal" was ...eye opening. Prior, I talked to the leader, but ...
Not gonna belabor this anymore. Two years I have fought, testified, labor in prayer, intercession, but one thing I know, and that is I know my time is at hand as far as my present capacity (I cannot enable their comfort, and let them build on me, and make an ornament or an attraction because of the playing...the music, and people are still not free because they still put limits on the flow especially with their rush, rush metality. When at times God purposely allowed none of the singers to show I had to lead worship, (I'm not the best sounding singing in man's eyes) they rush to get somebody else that "sounds" good, because of fear of the people I guess. I do not say this prideful but just the point of the desires of the people.
This was a test for me and for them, for the true worship is more important to me, but for them it is the sound. I struggled with my sound, but in my heart I knew God was pleased and I wanted to just shut-up because of the rejection. I said I wouldn't sing because this was their desire, but that no longer matters...I am sent...because Christ has sent me Isa61, Luke4:18

I am glad God lead me here, for I was getting in a rut because of the spiritual wickedness, in this area, and I have ministering in this area for a time, seeing the same hardness of heart, almost believing this was the case with the body.
All the responses have bee on point, and God has through this shown about His body, internationally, and I'm exited again. If it were just the local body, I'd be in trouble, but there are saints around the world exalting Him, sold out believers.

Rejoice in the Lord always, and again I say rejoice.

(The apostle Paul whilst in prison)

Brother,
I feel your pain, and Jesus does too.
To say that it doesn't hurt to be done this way, would not be true.
I know how you feel, for God wants me to sing, and I do Minister at the Nursing Homes.
Anyway, before our last Pastor came, I was asked to sing, but now, just certain people are allowed to sing.
It doesn't hurt as it did when it first happened.
I know that God will handle it, some way, some how.
I talked with the Pastor and he said, "Let me Touch Him" Song was only meant for a Man to sing.
God had laid this Song on my heart to sing.
God ministered to me in a mighty way through this trial.
He will make a way for you.
He is Faithful, what He has called you to do, you will do.
Be sensitive to the Holy Spirit.
God Bless you, and lead you.
Nellie

Whoops sorry there, I got the newest/oldest drop down menu wrong and was reading and earlier post and thought we were all rejoicing here. Hence my post Rejoice, which just got more and more complicated to blend sensitively. Sorry about your suffering my brother, everything Nellie says times a million.

In Christ,
Aeryck

Been there brother...as the old saws go on about our shining our light in the darkness or about the red-hot ember that goes cold when withdrawn from the fire but glows brightly again when retuned to the firebox so too goes the music ministry.

We made a leadership change and have seen some rocky times and as the core of a music team we clung tightly to the Lord and His leading and have kindled the fire in those who were there for the 'show.' We lost a few along the way but they have refocused their ministry into other fields.

It bothered us YES, it was insufferable at times LORD YES!

But basking in the Light and love of the Lord allowed the Light of His Spirit and the truth of Christ to shine through us and converted the whole team to LEAD WORSHIPPERS ... So HANG in there.

Its not you, it who lives in you that matters. Keep Him raised up and you'll' drive way the darkness and shine brighter for Him in the future. The light of Christ that lives in us is to be raised within the church as well as without.

(You don't have to answer this, I know it is just a crazy old man's thoughts, ... mine )
Has anyone ever considered making the whole church a worship team, instead of having the gaping hole between the so called worship leaders and everyone else ?

Ormy, I hear that.
I was just mentioning to my wife the question, who said there HAD to be a praise team. In light of what has been going on and the battle in this particular assembly I have been assisting, I think the unity of the Spirit is more important,and I would rather have a time a serious unreserved praise with people who are more concerned about touching HIM, than a skillfull singer (or singers) who are not on one accord or their hearts in another place.
Nevertheless, if there is to be a worship team, the focus must not be on them or their ability, but - as intercessors - willing to pray, willing to touch the heart of God concerning their sisters and brothers, weep at the alter, cry out in their private time, and when it is time to stand before God's people it won't be about anything else but God. They will know how to "shew forth" the praises of Him who has indeed called them out of darkness and into His marvellous light. They will be adequately equipped to show forth His holiness.
In either way God must be glorified not flesh.

Again, now I ask the readers in connection with Hiswill's plea for prayer for the service on tonight. I am working alongside this team and my expectation is only God. I know not what to expect outside of God and what the scripture says in Isa 61 and LK4:18
Thanks and please let us know you're praying. God bless.

i've had many sleepless nights because of this grievance. God used me to speak to the worship team about their falsehood, but they just did not listen. i was hated by many of the artists in my church. this church was all about entertainment. they didn't give heed to God's warning now they are no more and all the people scattered.

Did I just write this?? Hit myself on the head. Oh, No I didn’t. However I can relate. Actually, I did not lose sleep, but I did have a series of dreams in which the platform was covered with a jungle of wires, and I got tangled in them while trying to do “worship”. I had a lot of similar stifling experiences – either in dream or in real life at church. Clearly, the Lord was revealing to me that the Spirit was being quenched through the music. And sadly, the pastor, being afraid of the people, and did not take me seriously. Within a year there was a scattering of all the musicians (and other members)– just as happened in your case. Clearly it was a God-ordained dispersion. However, it wasn’t all bad. Many grew closer to God after getting away from the entanglement. I did.

but we are told to be salt, so there is the real edge, not to compromise but to keep talking about Jesus !

One day a determined atheist, who had heard me play hymn arrangements in a concert, told me with tears that my playing gave her a deep religious experience. I know that the Spirit was softening her heart. Someday, in God’s timing, she will put her trust in him.

I have come to believe that it’s not my job to change anyone. And I think that makes it a lot easier to be a music minister.

Here’s another thought: I think we can get so wrapped up in our church service, that we can forget the ministry of taking a young child on our knees and singing ‘Jesus Loves me” to him, or going to a senior’s home sharing our music there.

I said I wouldn't sing because this was their desire, but that no longer matters...I am sent...because Christ has sent me Isa61, Luke4:18

Diane

has anyone ever considered making the whole church a worship team,

I remember many years back when a deacon would announce the hymns, and an elderly lady plunked them on the old piano, and the PEOPLE raised the roof in song.

Diane

Hey, y'all! we still sing that way!! Except we do not have a piano...In our church we sing a cappella with four part harmony being sung. Why don't you try it? Might have to have a singing school where people are taught to read music and sing it...can be done..it used to be done and I have heard of churches still doing it and they have great congregational singing. Methinks it is a whole lot prettier then hearing a few people up front doing your singing. I love to sing and the older I get the less I enjoy hearing the [church] music performed by others.

The old songs/hymns that were popular 100 years ago have a profound message that is lacking in modern music. The lyrics are so shallow, like: See Dick run, see Dick run fast, Run fast, Run fast, see Dick run. Duh! Or maybe people are no longer capable of thinking?

Just my opinion....BTW, in case you think I do not enjoy instrumentals, I can play three musical instruments but not good enough for any public service...done just for my own pleasure.

ginnyrose