Opposition From Everyone

Hello everybody, I just registered today, so I'm a newbie. In any case...

I was curious as to whether anybody else has tried to proclaim our contemporary churches as spiritually dead ? And when proclaiming this truth, if everyone became your enemy, called you a blasphemer, shouted Grace, Mercy, Love at you until you could no longer stand it ?

I just recently got into an argument with my older brother who is an assistant Youth Pastor for his church. I told him not to take his youth kids to the mission field because his youth kids had no idea what it meant to be a Christian, and that they would only spread more false Christianity. My brother in turn yelled at me, and told me to get off my high horse.

I am no Christian. I have been yearning for repentance, but it seems as if God is avoiding me. I am merely a condemned man, wishing to reveal other condemned men. I'm a zombie (not born again) that knows he's a zombie (not born again), trying to tell other zombie's they're zombies (not born again).

Am I alone in this... or does anybody out there understand ?

God bless~

Welcome to SermonIndex,

'I'm a zombie that knows he's a zombie, trying to tell other zombie's they're zombies.'

Interesting. I think that most here would substitute the word 'zombie' with 'sinner' I do not believe you are alone. One thing is for sure every single one of us on this forum is a zombie, if we replace the word 'zombie' with 'sinner' - 'there is non righteous no not one, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.'

The fact that you 'have been yearning for repentance' means you are under the conviction of the Holy Ghost, because you are not yet a true disciple of Jesus Christ yet - better expressed: you do not believe in Jesus Christ. Therefore God is most certainly NOT avoiding you.

The condemnation you speak of is actually mentioned in the Bible (Romans 8 verse 1 and 2) and as you read there you may understand that the condemnation can be taken away. This was accomplished by Christ's death on the cross, his burial and resurrection on the third day. (1 Corinthians 15 verse 3,4)

I would encourage you to follow the 'yearning for repentance' and lay off condemning the condemned and zombifying the zombyfied... in Christ you will find your own personal condemnation and zombie state... your sin dealt with.

Everything you are presently going for I am sure most of us have been through and so you are in good company, and will I am sure if God so wills it, find the salvation you seek; which is in Christ alone.

Aeyrck

Scripture doesn't say much about zombies! Can't even think of one. However, it does say in Jer 29v13 ye shall seek Me and find Me when you seek for Me with all your heart. Again it says in Matt 7v7 Ask and it shall be given to you...see also verse 11. If our salvation was based on feelings, who would be saved? It is based on the word of God and His promise that a broken and contrite heart He will not despise. Trust and obey God's word. Just think, if some Christians trusted God like they trusted people they would be power houses for God. However, God's word is unchanging, man's isn't. He says one thing today and something else tomorrow. So, learn to know who to trust.

Hello IWantAnguish,

Interesting name there, sounds as if you have it already ... not necessarily a good or bad thing depending on where it stems from. What I mean is, the self-condemning aspect as you extrapolated here a bit.

I am no Christian. I have been yearning for repentance, but it seems as if God is avoiding me.

A little puzzling of what you mean by yearning for repentance. Repentance leads to a resolution not a particular ... acquirement if that is the right word there. Recognize there is a sort of 'lifestyle of repentance' as can be termed but I think the thought behind that is more along the lines of Jam 1:19,20 [i]Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.[/i] Quick to forgive, quick to keep short accounts with the Lord, quick to reconcille... Slow on the matters James address's.

To address your former question;

I was curious as to whether anybody else has tried to proclaim our contemporary churches as spiritually dead ?

Rom 8:1 [i] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[/i]

Some pretty good discussion around these things here, dig your heels in and explore, can promise it will alter your heart and mind in ways you never dreamed of. Welcome to the site brother.

Iwantanguish,

I do know what you mean. Almost everywhere I look I see people that think they are children of God when they are living lifestyles in total opposition to his word. God is not avoiding us, we have been avoiding God.

I also struggle with living a life of repentance. I think it has a lot to do with trying to overcome my sinful nature without depending on Christ when I am tempted. I think we need to hide his word in our hearts, pray so that we will not fall into temptation, and to be led by the Holy Spirit.

Paul addresses how you are feeling in Romans "What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God -- through Jesus Christ our Lord!"

I know it may seem better not to send people out to evangelize when they are lost themselves. I have found my way through a lukewarm church, prosperity gospels and other false teachings. God is bigger than all these things. If we waited until missionaries had flawless doctrines, nobody would have made it onto the mission field yet.

I am reminded of the first chapter of Matthew, where Joseph hears from an angel of the Lord. The angel told Joseph that Jesus came to save his people from their sins. Now that is a mission statement. Thank God for Jesus.

We must repent and bear fruit.

Those that love Him, obey Him.

Murray

Scripture doesn't say much about zombies!

If one were to define zombie as "the walking dead' then one would have to say the scriptures speak volumes about zombies.

What we call "sinners" are those human beings, inclusive of all of us, who are born into this world spiritually dead and separated from the life (zoe) of God.

In all of history, the only one born into this world "alive" is the Lord Jesus Christ" of whom it is written, "in HIm was Life (zoe) and this life is the light of men.

How can we repent from being dead? By comming to the One in whom there is Life. The Life (zoe) of God.

John tells us, "this is the record, God has given us eternal Life (zoe), this Life is in His Son, He who has the Son has the Life. He who does not have the Son of God does not have the Life.

"As God has Life in Himself, so has He given to the Son to have Life in Himself".

If we whould have LIfe, we must turn to the One in whom is the Life. And we must be born of God, regenerated with His Life.

Though Adam never sinned, yet he did not posses the Life of God. To posses the Life of God he must eat of the Tree of Life which signifies God as Life in Christ as food.

Adam had only the natural created human Life. He did not have the etenal Life of God. AFter Adam sinned, he was barred from the Tree of Life lest he put forth his hand, take and eat and live forever.

Christ on the Cross has dealt with our sins, and our guilt, and in resurrection now as the Tree of Life imparts His eternal Divine Life into us making us children of God with the very Life (zoe) of God.

Christ in HIs redemptive death has opened the way to the Tree of Life and He Himself is this Tree (John 15). If we would have Life we must believe into the living, crucified, and resurrected Christ and eat Him as the Tree of Life.

Graftedbranch

hello iwantanguish,

"I told him not to take his youth kids to the mission field because his youth kids had no idea what it meant to be a Christian, and that they would only spread more false Christianity."

i very much agree with you. they will spread more lies about Christ, if they have no understanding of the cross, being a true deciple. this is a deep grievance. we all should be grieved at the many who are sent by man with no message or power from the Holy Spirit. but, you must know that you stand as a hypocrite and have no right to tell your brother this when you have admit that you need to repent too. you will be a better minister when you live the Life.

i am encouraged that a zombie like you have zeal for truth and are grieved for the right thing. many christians who say they walk in truth does not even grieve as you, a zombie. to show such concerned for His kingdom tells me that the kingdom of God is near you. draw near to Him, brother. He is close to you.

God bless,
lisa

I told him not to take his youth kids to the mission field because his youth kids had no idea what it meant to be a Christian,

I know what your saying...

I have come to the conclusion if you cant go across the street to witness, how can you go across the world to witness??

One of my close friends has told me that she feels as if I'm looking everywhere, but salvation is on the tip of my nose.

I said that I feel like an unborn child, kicking and turning inside the womb, not yet born again.

I don't know if it isn't my time yet, or that I simply lack the revelation of God's Holiness which would bring me to my knees in true repentance.

I yearn for a pastor to preach to me a Spirit filled message that touches my stoney heart, and drives me to brokenness.

Currently I still sin, I sin everyday, much more than I want. But I lack 'Christ In Me,' so I know for a fact that I am not born again. I am not dead to the world, the world is not crucified to me, my Self is still my God, I've yet to lay my life down... and I've come to believe its much more than a conscience decision, because I've tried that, and it doesn't work.

Somebody break me free

IWantAnguish wrote:

I am merely a condemned man, wishing to reveal other condemned men. I'm a zombie that knows he's a zombie, trying to tell other zombie's they're zombies.

Am I alone in this... or does anybody out there understand ?

I can not understand this, how could death bring life?
What fruit will there be in just showing the dead that they are dead with out the promise of life and the answer of how to recieve life?

How do you(a dead man) know about life?

I am no Christian. I have been yearning for repentance

How is theire no repentance?
The very act of repentance is turning away from sin and toward God, and in faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
[b]Act 20:21[/b] [color=990000]Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, [b]repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.[/b][/color]

In the Hebrew mind faith and faithfulness are the same thing. Faithfulness is loyalty and obedience.
Faith is toward GOD.
[b]Hebrews 11:1[/b] [color=990000]Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.[/color]
This verse tells us Who our hope is in,
[b]1Tim 1:1[/b] [color=990000]Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Savior, and [b]Lord Jesus Christ, [which is] our hope.[/b][/color]
Therefore our hope is not a wish but a certainty.
In other words, faith is substantial evidence of our hope, and a right response to God. This hope is not a wish but a knowledge in which we await.

Just obey and repent!

but it seems as if God is avoiding me.

You need not to [b]feel[/b] anything but only know the fact that is in His Word. Then you will eventualy feel the life you so desparatly crave.

I was curious as to whether anybody else has tried to proclaim our contemporary churches as spiritually dead?

I am no Christian.....I'm a zombie that knows he's a zombie

I told him not to take his youth kids to the mission field because his youth kids had no idea what it meant to be a Christian,

If your no Christian, then how do you know what is meant to be a real Christian?

If you are only being humble and saying that you are all this, would you please stop and stat the truth and not lie against the truth.

It is like Jesus saying that He is not the Christ by being humble.
You can be humble and still state facts about yourself.

aeryck wrote:

Interesting. I think that most here would substitute the word 'zombie' with 'sinner' I do not believe you are alone. One thing is for sure every single one of us on this forum is a zombie, if we replace the word 'zombie' with 'sinner' - 'there is non righteous no not one, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.'

That would not be accurate eather because we are not sinners if we are born again, we are new creations in Christ.
[b]2Timothy 1:10[/b] [color=990000] But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, [b]who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel[/b]: [/color]

[b]1John 3:14[/b] [color=990000]We know that [b]we have passed from death unto life[/b], because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.[/color]

I've attended church for 18 years, I am 19 years old. Recently I've stopped attending church because it is a waste of my time. My father was the pastor of the church that I had attended for 18 years. He cheated on my mother with some woman that he brought over from Korea, hence I come from a separated home. But anyway...

I've heard many sermons and studied much text on the topic of repentance, and true salvation. I am in between the status of a deaf, blind sinner, and a born again Christian.

I know that I lack the Holy Spirit, and that if I were to die at this moment, Hell would be my eternal place of torment.

I do not think that many people know what I am going through.

I have so much head knowledge ABOUT God, but I have no TRUE relational knowledge WITH Him.

I want to be able to repent.

I've tried, but I feel no remorse for my sins. My mind says its bad, but that's not good enough, I forced myself to THINK that way.

I have no conviction of the Spirit within my HEART. I can't control my heart. And my heart is still stoney, and yet to be renewed.

now that I lack the Holy Spirit, and that if I were to die at this moment, Hell would be my eternal place of torment.
I do not think that many people know what I am going through.
I have so much head knowledge ABOUT God, but I have no TRUE relational knowledge WITH Him.
I want to be able to repent.
I've tried, but I feel no remorse for my sins. My mind says its bad, but that's not good enough, I forced myself to THINK that way.
I have no conviction of the Spirit within my HEART. I can't control my heart. And my heart is still stoney, and yet to be renewed.

What I really like about you IWantAnguish, is your bold open honesty on this site. I see that you are truly desperate, and have no intention of playing the Christian game. You are also very aware of hypocrisy, and want no part in it. I am very troubled about your father’s past choices. That betrayal is a very serious assault against his family, the church, and above all God. Has he felt remorse for it? Does he know repentance and God’s forgiveness? Has he ever asked for your forgiveness?

As I was praying for you a verse popped into my mind, Forgive us our debts as we forgive others.”

So, now, I ask, who in your life do you need to let off the “hook”. Who are you angry at? Can you forgive all those who harmed you in the past, including your father, and the church in general? Are you prepared to walk into their lives with mercy, patience, and gentleness?

This is what is required in order for you to experience God’s forgiveness – his salvation, his mercy, and his love. It is a very costly gift. It is a path of death - but it is a path that leads to new life.

PS just a question: Why your nick name: I want Anguish?

Diane

Hey IWantAnguish!

I can read the desire in your post to follow Him and have a deeper relationship with Him
Frankly, if you were no Christian or dead then you would have zero desire for Him.

Do you believe that Christ is able to save you?
Do you live in sin, in constant rebellion to God without the ability to ask His forgiveness?

I too sometimes feel my inability to 'get holier' (ofcourse I can't make myself more holy) or at times I feel bad about things but there are no tears, no real anguish. It's a matter of growth. And to be honest I've posted posts a bit simulair like you in the past just to have my hearts cry shared.

It's too bad that an internet ministry can't just stand by someone and hug someone and pray together. I will think of you in my prayers as the Lord reminds me of you!

Hi IWantAnguish...

I feel that the answer for your situation is quite simple. Just come before the Lord with your completely broken life. If you come to Him -- truly wanting to know Him -- He will not cast you to the side.

I was in your same situation (although I was a bit younger). I was raised in a Christian home, but I wasn't certain about the existence of God. I thought that I was too smart to believe in God. I also saw the hypocrisy of many supposed believers, as well as the lack of pure love (for both God and man) in those that I thought really believed. Over time, however, I went from being an athiest to an agnostic to an "unbelieving believer."

One night, I felt completely miserable inside myself. My heart was as dead, dry and unemotional as ever. But I reasoned in my heart that I wanted to truly know God. I walked out into a field (at a youth camp) -- far away from anything and everyone. I knew that I did not know God. Sure, I knew (or thought I knew) a lot of things about Him. But I did not know Him personally. In my dry (but completely honest) prayer, I told the Lord that I would trade all that I was and all that I was to ever become -- if I could only know Him and be His friend.

I was not "led in a sinner's prayer." But I immediately knew that something had happened. I knew that God was with me. My heart, my love, my life, my past, my present and my future were completely His.

This testimony is not just my own. There are many other believers that have felt as both you and I have. Charles Finney, one of the great revival preachers in American history, wrote of experiencing the same spiritual anguish before coming to Christ. He gave his heart to the Lord and became greatly used of the Lord. Let me encourage you to do the same. Simply come to the Lord in honesty -- knowing that He will accept your broken and contrite spirit (Psalm 51).

I will be praying for you throughout the day. Please keep us updated and informed. We love you immensely -- and we know that God loves and values you (enough to die in order to create an open relationship between you and Him). If you need anything, simply write in this thread, or write a PM.

Again, I am praying for you.

Jeremiah 29:11-13
Matthew 5:6-8
John 6:37
Matthew 11:28-30

:-)

I hold no grudges against anyone... They are dead just as I am, why would I scream at a blind person, DO YOU SEE WHAT YOU'VE DONE TO ME ?!' It's pointless. They live for themselves and they have no idea how much they hurt others. All I do is forgive them and move on.

'I Want Anguish' is truly what I want. I want to feel the pain for my open rebellion against God. I want to know the heart of God, as to how I've hurt and insulted His deity. My trouble is that I don't have any anguish for my sins.

Yes, I believe in Christ's capacity to save any sinner, BUT, only after they've been broken and humbled. Christ does not save the proud. Christ does not save the unrepentant. The Law breaks the heart of the sinner, Grace heals the broken heart.

God is a God of Wrath until the sinner cries out MERCY, then God is the God of Love. We can not know the God of Love, UNTIL we feel the God of Wrath.

I've heard many sermons and studied much text on the topic of repentance, and true salvation. I am in between the status of a deaf, blind sinner, and a born again Christian.

I know that I lack the Holy Spirit, and that if I were to die at this moment, Hell would be my eternal place of torment.

I do not think that many people know what I am going through.

I have so much head knowledge ABOUT God, but I have no TRUE relational knowledge WITH Him.

I want to be able to repent.

I've tried, but I feel no remorse for my sins. My mind says its bad, but that's not good enough, I forced myself to THINK that way.

I have no conviction of the Spirit within my HEART. I can't control my heart. And my heart is still stoney, and yet to be renewed.

IWantAnguish, your words reminds me much of Charles Finney before his conversion.
I encourage you to read this from his autobiography, here is the link -
[url=http://www.gospeltruth.net/1868Memoirs/mem02.htm] Chapter II - Conversion to Christ[/url]

God bless you,
Kire

Hmm... I've come to the conclusion that I've been trying to work my salvation through guides, or prepaved roads.

"What are you waiting for? Did you not promise to give your heart to God? And what are you trying to do? Are you endeavoring to work out a righteousness of your own?"

Which makes me realize that I'm still a sinner. I'm still without God. No matter my good intentions, they're still wrong.

I pray, God, break me. Give me a revelation of Your Holiness. Show me what kind of sinner I am.

But, no reply.

I still see God the same way. I still see myself the same way. Nothing has changed. I'm still unsaved...

God help me

Hi Sam,

Whatever my comments prior, all that you have brought forth by way of clarification ...
Your honesty is endearing, incredibaly. It is also revealing.

I pray, God, break me. Give me a revelation of Your Holiness. Show me what kind of sinner I am.

But, no reply.

No need to mince any words here. Has it dawned on you just what it is you are experiencing?

I do not think that many people know what I am going through.

I have so much head knowledge ABOUT God, but I have no TRUE relational knowledge WITH Him.

I want to be able to repent.

I've tried, but I feel no remorse for my sins. My mind says its bad, but that's not good enough, I forced myself to THINK that way.

Brother, that is the most honest statement I have heard in a great while. Praise God! You are right, it is not good enough and I applaud you for not giving sway to anything less than a true conviction in your heart, until you know the depth of the Spirit whereby we cry [i]Abba Father[/i]!

Sam, you are more saved than you know ... It just hasn't fully gripped you yet ... Ah, never in a day would I dare to pronounce anything that you do not know yourself in the deepest part of your marrow...

Sometimes 'suggestions' at time like this can be just worthless... Maybe the Lord is waitng for you to just cry uncle ... completely, to just give up .. even all this .... I don't know what the word is. Have been through some aspects of this, to a point of "Lord, You have to do it, I just can't anymore..."

The Lord knows brother, He may just be breaking you down until ...

All I know is He will not turn away an honest heart. My prayers are with you in earnest. Keep us posted, will be looking for answers to this situation.

[i]Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled[/i] (Matthew 5:6).

This Beatitude again follows logically from the previous ones; it is a statement to which all the others lead. It is the logical conclusion to which they come, and it is something for which we should all be profoundly thankful and grateful to God. I do not know of a better test that anyone can apply to himself or herself in this whole matter of the Christian profession than a verse like this. If this verse is to you one of the most blessed statements of the whole of Scripture, you can be quite certain you are a Christian. If it is not, then you had better examine the foundations again.

Martyn Lloyd-Jones

Hi, IWantAnguish

Well I have had all the anguish I want, because of my circumstances and situations and mistakes I have made. I found that The Anguish of Christ is good enough for me. For by His Stripes I am healed. I don't need to go around and flagellating my self on the back with a whip. Christ took all that on Himself for us. Most of all He took all my punishment and saved me, because I believe on His Name. Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

1Jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Christ is my repentance, for I would not even know what to repent of unless The Christ in me by the Holy Spirit gave me understanding of what to repent of. I have been a Christian for thirty years, and in itself that makes me nothing. It does make the Christ in me greater, by, line upon line and precept upon precept and I am still learning of things that I need to repent of which I never even knew were to be repented of. It will go on for the whole time I am in this body of flesh and in the renewing of my mind to the Mind of Christ.

There is nothing I can do to save myself and there is nothing I can do to make me better. It is not up to me to save myself and it is not up to me to keep myself saved. Phl 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:

It is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me, is the One I must trust for initial salvation and every aspect of working out my salvation with fear and trembling to the Spirit of Christ that is in me. The Holy Spirit will give me revelation of Christ and how I am to live my life in Him. The only life I now have is Christ in me the Hope of Glory. If I choose to live my life going around and believing I am the one that must be perfect and feel all the Pain that Jesus Felt on the Cross, then Christ died in vain, and the Cross is to no avail.

We must see ourselves on the Cross with Christ. We are as dead to sin as He is. When that perfect Head of Christ, dead and hanging on dead shoulders on the Cross, that took all the sin of the world on Him. I was dead with Him, as dead to sin as He is. Reckon yourselves dead to sin and alive unto Jesus Christ. Galatians 2:19-21 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

The Law of my mind in Christ Jesus is to trust in Him for all that He has and is making me to be, a son of God by the Teaching and Power of the Holy Spirit who is revealing Christ in you the Hope of Glory. Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

If we really want freedom in Christ, then we must trust in Him and not ourselves. If His stripes are not good enough for my freedom and I think I must feel the stripes as He did, He died in vain and I am not trusting in Him for my salvation, but trusting in my on condemnation to save me. Romans 8:1-2 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Made me Free, Praise God. Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Walk in freedom and He truly will make you free indeed. Who is our freedom, praise God through Christ Jesus we can do all things. 1 Peter 2:24-25 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

And most of all: Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

In Christ: Phillip

I would like to give thanks to all you guys that have taken time out of your schedules to try and help me out... it means a lot-

I just had a thought about Jacob, and his life of lies. How he lied and stole the blessing from his earthly father, and lived a lie.

It finally came to the point of life and death, where he would meet Esau. Only then did he get into the confrontation with God.

God wrestled with Jacob, Jacob wrestled with God. God asked, 'What is YOUR NAME?' As if God didn't know.

I believe that God has a choke-hold on me at the moment... but I've still got some fight left... God asking me, 'Who are you Sam?'

And I respond, 'I'm not as bad as you say I am, look at what I've done for You, look at how I struggle for You... I'm not that bad...really...'

But still He asks, 'Who are you?'

I would be happy to send you some tapes on repentance. I have several hundred of them and I'm sure it's the Lord heart that you hear a number of them Sam.

My son is Korean and will be a freshmen at VCU in the fall. That being said, I will be spending a lot of time in Richmond.

I praise God for the conviction of sin in your own heart and would encourage to simply go to wherever you pray and stay in the presence of the Lord until you are through. The old-timers called it praying through, which simply means you pray until there's an assurance in your spirit that God has answered your cry. He wants to pour out to you this gift of repentance.

An old preacher named G.C. Bevington in the early 20th century called conviction of sin "turning on the x-ray machine." I'm praying in my spirit right now that God will turn up this x-ray machine until this work of regeneration is complete in your heart.

Feel free to email me and I'll be happy to send you some tapes, as well as pray with you. Today is the day of salvation!

Sam, I'm going to go out on a limb here and claim your soul for the kingdom of God by faith in the blood of Jesus. I'm also standing and believing that God is going to use you to bring revival to VCU, real revival.

Wow... I've been following the directions of Charles Finney on his 3rd lecture concerning revival...

After I wrote down all of my sins, and remembering those long lost sins that I thought I had run away from... they all came bubbling up to the surface. And guess what... after all this time, after saying God, give me repentance, I DON'T WANT TO !

Look at me, this wretched self that I am. I look at this sheet of paper, and I say to myself, 'No, God, not this one... I might get kicked out of college for this one... God... I don't have the money to return all of these... There must be another way... God...'

But I've made my decision... I will follow through. Perhaps I will get kicked out of college. Perhaps I will end up in jail. But my conscience will finally be at rest with God. This is it guys... I earnestly ask for your prayers.

Sam,

You are still foremost in my prayers...
Whatever you do in all this matter, all the things you read ... I plead with you, take it to prayer and let the Lord press upon you what it is He is requiring of you. Not my suggestions, nor Finney's, nor anyone else's. Certainly those who watch out for your soul and wish to provide whatever counsel they have are to be considered, this site is just an endless well of life changing thought to absorb and contemplate, to think ...

Brother I feel compelled to bring forth a word of caution on Finney's listing here. It is to dodge absolutely nothing. There is a great danger of either the accuser or our own misery making usurping that which only God Himself can bring to bear ... The problem I have with this is in bringing up the past, by [i][u]ourselves[/u][/i] unaided, if one was to really continue on this path backwards, digging up every past sin .... Where does it end? Some of the sins of your past will leave you absolutely powerless to do anything with ... Some will be those that you have already asked forgiveness for, whatever your feelings might scream at you now years later about (I wasn't sincere, I didn't really mean it ...) Brother, the point is, if [u]you[/u] do the deciding in these matters you will be setting yourself up for all kinds of trouble and unnecessary navel-gazing that can become a sin in itself.

Sam, it is at times an exceedingly difficult thing to do, to shut off the chattering mind and get quiet and silent before the Lord. To wait and let go of yourself to Him who knows you far better than you ever will, but it can be done. Again, it is to dodge absolutely nothing. It is fair I believe to state that the Lord will not overwhelm you with anything more than one main item or area at a time.

Oh hear my heart here brother, I have been down into this morass before, many dark, dark nights of the soul, it is to go [i]through[/i] it, not to setup camp there. Sam, without a doubt the Lord deals with us corporately as well as individuals and if I am ever constantly surprised by the Lords ways not being [i]my[/i] ways I couldn't begin to tell it. I will go out on a limb here with our brother Ed and really it is not that far a reach. I tremble to say it, the Lord is at work in you ...

Rom 2:4 [i]Or do you think so little of the riches of his kindness, forbearance, and patience, not realizing that [u]it is God's kindness that is leading you to repentance[/u][/i]?

A bit further out on the limb ... Sam, I hope I am wrong here, but I also hope that you are not hedging everything on a 'silver-bullet' so to speak. It very well may be a process that the Lord takes you through 'line by line, precept by precept' in your heart. He may well overwhelm you in a moment, I pretend to have no idea which. There is an ultimate question expressed by Paul;

[i]He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?[/i] Act 19:2

Settle this through your repentance brother. It may well defy your understanding and your ability of expression. But you will know it and [u]no one[/u] but the Lord Himself can bring it to your heart and acknowledge it to your mind. Your assurance will be a peace that passes all understanding.

My prayers go on.

Pray Sam ...

Another thought...
Luk 8:5 [i]A sower went out to sow...[/i]

You might consider reading ever so slowly and prayerfully Luke 8:5 right on through Luke 8:15.
Where is Sam in all this? Between you and the Lord brother. Ask yourself, but more importantly, ask the Lord to reveal it to your heart.

Philip,

Can't agree more with your post! "The Book of Romans is the abc ( foundation ) book of a Christian", someone once said.

It has helped me often whenever I re-visit Romans and Ephesians. First in solidifying doctrine,which in turn strengthens my faith, the latter reminds me often to guard myself with the Armor of God..and see the spiritual darkness casts by the devil.

Yeah, the spiritual freedom brought forth from these two Books alone help me tremendously whenever I slip into the depressive state of mind

Thank you all

Fully Mamaluk,

I agree. If (Romans) the Word of God, helped that confused religious Augustinian monk who was responsible for what we now call the Reformation; it will most certainly be of benefit to your young friend 'Sam?' in discovering the meaning of true salvation in Christ.

In Christ,
Aeryck

I have no conviction of the Spirit within my HEART. I can't control my heart. And my heart is still stoney, and yet to be renewed.

I don't know what you think conviction is. If not what you are confessing.

The Spirit convicts us we are dead, that we are lost, that we are apart from Him, that we have no faith in Him, that we are outside of Him and he is not within us. This is conviction.

And the answer to this conviction is to confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead.

Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Call upon Him. Confess Him. Say, "Lord JEsus" save me, Lord Jesus come into me, Lord Jesus I have no faith, Lord Jesus be my Saviour.

Do this, Call upon HIm, Confess your condition, your hard heart, your inability to believe in Him and He will respond.

Graftedbranch

The only sin I was convicted of was that I was lost and apart from Christ. I was convicted that I was a lost sinner.

I did not hate sin till I was regenerated and had the Life of Christ within me. Then I had a new consciousness of sin and a hatred for it and a desire to live free from it.

But it is a false gospel which tells us we must repent of this or that first. We must hate sin and fosake all sin before we can be saved. We can no more do this than the man in the moon.

We repent of our independant self rightouse life, or we repent of a life apart from God, confess we are lost and unable to change ourselves. It is this confession that brings in God's salvation, regenerates us and enables us to lay hold of Christ.

In my opinion Finny will only wad you up in yourself and cause you to stay from Christ trying to make yourself acceptable to Him by this or that or by digging into yourself trying to repent.

Rather confess Christ, call on Christ, thank Him for His redemption, Thank Him for suffering on the Cross for your sins and for raising from the dead. Confess Him calling on Him as Lord and your spirit will be regenerated.

If there is some thing in particular the Lord wishes to deal with you on, ask HIm to show you. Only the Lord can reveal the condition of the heart. He does not expect us to do His work for Him. In fact, it is the greatest hinderance to obtaining His Light for us to try to dig it up by looking into ourselves. The more we look, the darker the pit we fall into. And this is the testimony of all the Saints.

Trying to work up repentace is futile. You might as well take a thorn bush and lash your back. Rather call on the Lord, confess your condition, confess your lack, confess your blindness, confess your hardness. And Look to Him.

"As Moses lifted up the Serpant in the Wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up that whosoever believes into Him might not perish but have Life which is Eternal."

Graftedbranch

It seem like you are trying to take a shower so you may be cleane enough to take a bath.

In other words: you think you need to clean up your life or be good enough before you could be saved.

The truth is, you need to come as you are, sins and all.
Unrepentant and stuborn as you are, HE will take you.

Meet Him at the cross and He will do all that needs to be done in you!

Yeah... today didn't work out very well... I took back stolen merchandise... they asked me if I knew they could press charges... I said yeah... Then after it all, the manager offered me a job there, heh (weird turn of events).

But the thing is... while doing this, I felt 'horizontal repentance.' I felt wrong towards fellow man, but towards God, there was none, except 'sorry God'

Yeah... today was a failure... I was a fool to think that this was what was holding me back...

On the hour drive back to Richmond, was just feeling desperate... I'm growing quite weary of this... I've been struggling for months... I just want to give up... But why does my selfish pride keep going on like the Energizer Bunny™ ?

My ex-girlfriend asked me why I was making it so difficult. I said I don't know... I keep thinking God is here, or God is there... I run there... And God isn't there... Reminds me of Elijah in the side of the mountain... great wind, earthquake, fire... but God is in the silence... sigh, if I could only understand this...

I also felt as if Satan had such a strong grip on my life... he just doesn't wanna let me go. I begged God to take me from Satan's grasp... I wanna come to God as the prodigal son... But I can't...

And thanks guys... again...

Hi Sam
I'm a newbie too!
I agree as posted before that God is obviously working on you, otherwise you wouldn't be bearing your soul in this forum, you'd be off trying to enjoy your sin.
What you seem to talking about sounds very similar to my fathers testimony.
He was brought up in the church and went through many religious phases and he even started preaching at youth camps (where many people were getting saved and are still walking strong with the Lord). But it was at one of these camps that the Lord spoke to him very strongly telling him that he wasn't saved. At first he rebuked it thinking it was a lie from the enemy, but as he begun to pray and read he knew it was the Lord speaking to him. anyway.. He shared it with his pastor, and began to get up at 5 every morning and pray with his pastor until he REALLY MET with Jesus. This period lasted for SEVERAL MONTHS, in which time the Lord sovereignly brought back sins from the past, which my father began to put right where it was at all possible (that meant tracking down people from primary school that he had bullied and similar).
It was not until several months later that he got "saved". He pinpoints his salvation over three days at these 5 oçlock prayer meetings with his pastor, in which he conciously and specifically offered his WHOLE life to the Lord. Ie. His health, wealth, family, Job etc.
He was a property developer, but after this the Lord called him to "full time minstry" and he said it was not a struggle at all because he had already layed his life down.
Many people have speculated that he was already "saved" in his early days but he says "I know now what it is like to be born again now and I can tell you that I was not born again before"
I don't intend to convey any doctrine, many of the wonderful people in this forum have already done a brilliant job, this is just a real life story of which I can testify that if you seek the Lord with all your heart you WILL find him!

I hope this can be of some encouragment. Keep Seeking.

I believe Christ wants me to deem the sacrifice... to actually acknowledge what rags and what filth I am trading for eternal life...

I've been saying Christ... save me... "Save you from what ?" My sins God... "What sins?" All of them... "I don't think you're willing to give it all up, you haven't counted the cost."

I must deem the sacrifice... how much of my life is God taking away... all of it... yeah... I haven't come to full realization of what this statement means.

Just as I am
Without one plea.
But that Thy Blood was shed for me.
And since Thou bidst me come to Thee
O Lamb of God, I come.
I come.

There's room at the Cross for you
There's room at the Cross for you.
Tho millions have come
There's still room for one.
Yes, there's room at the Cross for you.

Jesus is bidding you to come.
He will clean you up, through the Power of the Holy Spirit.
May He be real to you, today.

God Bless you
Nellie

I'm a little late to all this, yes I know - but:
I just sat here for the past 20-25 minutes reading your entire thread...
And I just wanted to say that it made me want to cry...for all the frustration you're going through, and the false hopes, and etc.
I truly, truly, hope that you repent and desire to glorify God regardless of where you end up: Heaven or Hell.
I'm not going to offer advice or point you in a direction or give you Bible verses to read; I don't want to give you some prepaved path to salvation, like you said in one of your earlier posts...
Thank you for your honesty; it's...touching.

Sam,

I pray that you count the cost of following Jesus. It literally will cost you everything. The Holy Spirit has asked me time after time "Ed what does it cost to follow me?" and I've answered Lord it will cost me everything (all of my time, my energy, money, hopes, dreams, etc.). The cost is very clear. You can't have Jesus and the world too, it simply doesn't work that way. It literally has cost me everything to follow Jesus and it will be no different for you Sam.

When that same question comes up in the prayer closet now I have such joy in my heart and I can understand what Paul said in Philippians 3:7-9 "7But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith."

Everything he has taken from me has simply been rubbish. The King James Version uses the word dung, which appears to be a bit more accurate. Oh what a joy to give everything to Jesus. I pray that you make this same choice so you can agree with Brother Paul and me that everything in this life is dung and discover for yourself what a joy it is to gain Christ and have his righteousness imparted to you. What glory it is to be follower of Christ.

Blessings to you Sam. I praise God for your honesty. God never plays games Sam, so know He is very serious.

Yes... I've counted the cost of what it will take on my behalf... In all my selfishness of wanting to be born again, I've completely forgotten to see things through the eyes of Jesus...

I feel as if the Son of God asking me...

"Sure you've counted the cost on your behalf, but have you counted the cost of what I went through for you ? The humiliation of being beaten and spit on, naked and bleeding, scourged for the sake of righteousness... The Son of God doing this for you, being put on the cross... do you actually realize my torment, what it cost ME?"

I need to pray

'I feel lonely without hope, I feel desperate without vision...'

I'm getting desperate you guys...

God I know you can save me... what's holding You back... what's holding me back... what's going on ?

'I feel I'm drowning... my arms are just too tired to swim... I feel like I'm sinking... on my knees again'

IWantAnguish wrote:

'I feel lonely without hope, I feel desperate without vision...'

I'm getting desperate you guys...

God I know you can save me... what's holding You back... what's holding me back... what's going on ?

'I feel I'm drowning... my arms are just too tired to swim... I feel like I'm sinking... on my knees again'

Your problen seems to be that you are wanting to act or even feel like a christian when you are not.

I've been saying Christ... save me... "Save you from what ?" My sins God... "What sins?" All of them... "I don't think you're willing to give it all up, you haven't counted the cost."

Counting the cost is a no brainer if you think about it.
[b]Matthew 10:28[/b] [color=990000]And do not fear those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul; [b]but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.[/b][/color]
[b]Matthew 16:25[/b] [color=990000]For whoever desires to save his life shall lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake shall find it.[/color]
[b]Matthew 13:12[/b] [color=990000]For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he shall have abundance; [b]but whoever has not, from him even what he has shall be taken away.[/b][/color]

while doing this, I felt 'horizontal repentance.' I felt wrong towards fellow man, but towards God, there was none, except 'sorry God'

Look at me, this wretched self that I am. I look at this sheet of paper, and I say to myself, 'No, God, not this one...

Yes... Was listening to a sermon and felt the repeated theme of godly sorrow works repentance. Fear towards God for breaking the divine Law.

I need to pray...

Sinners in the hands of an angry God... preach to me Jonathan !

Back again; isn't that nice? Your honesty drew me back - post #2:

God I know you can save me... what's holding You back... what's holding me back... what's going on ?

Please everyone, speak nothing to me of grace and love and the sacrifice of Christ.

Only speak to me of how I deserve to be in hell.

I believe that it is this sub-conscience belief in the depth of my soul, that God is somehow endeared to treat me to everlasting life, that somehow God owes me something, I believe that this is holding me back from understanding the grace of God.

Speak to me of the righteousness of God, please.
Speak to me of the Holiness of God.
Speak to me of the Judgement of God.

Only this way, may my hard heart be broken, and may I finally be humbled before God.

All this talk of grace and love has hardened my heart beyond comprehension. I agree with Finney when he states, that without breaking the heart, and plowing the soil, messages of Christs sacrifice will only harden the heart evermore.

Sam, all your judgment was put on Jesus Christ at the Cross. You of all people can see what an unrepentant heart can do to people. You feel the depth of your sin and God see's it. You don't even know how deceived you are by saying you want to feel the deserving of Hell. There is only one that felt that and it was Jesus Christ on the Cross, crucified for you that you might be crucified with Him. If you believe the Bible, then believe this; Galatians 2:20-21 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. If you believe on the nave of the Son of God Jesus Christ, you will be saved. If you do not believe on His Name, You won't be saved. 1 John 5:11-13 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. Do you believe on His Name.

If the answer is yes, it is done and you are a son of God, crucified with Jesus Christ on the Cross and God see's you as dead to sin as He is, even though He had all the sin of the world on His being, hanging on the Cross, for all your sin and mine and the whole world was on Him. When He died our sin died with Him and all we can do for salvation is believe it.

When His dead head fell on those bloody shoulders it was truly finished. He is now given us birth by His Own Spirit being put in us that we might live unto God His Father and ours that believe. You must see yourself on that cross with Him, and realize that you were crucified with Him. You have already received the ultimate penalty for all your sin. You were crucified with Him and now by His Life in you, you are free from sin, Oh you still have an unregenerate mind but even that will change line upon line and precept upon precept, because you now have the Mind of Christ. 1Cr 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

You cannot understand the things of God without a teacher and the new Mind to go with Him. Your teacher is the Holy Spirit who will teach you all things pertaining to Godliness which is in Christ Jesus who when you believe is born again in your spirit. You now have the Spirit of Christ in you. Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The Christ in you is your wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and justification. Not anything you do or can do or will do. 1 Corinthians 1:30-31 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Sam, Glory in the Lord, He is your all.
Your Teacher will show you this. Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

May you see your death on the Cross with Christ that you may live to God through Him.

In Christ Jesus whom we were crucified with and are as dead to sin as He is, That is how Your and my Father God see's us. Phillip

One evening, when wrestling hard with God in prayer,
my soul was silenced by these words being applied
with power to my soul--"This is My beloved Son, in
whom I am well pleased; hear Him!"

I was instantly led by the blessed Spirit in the exercise
of faith to look on Him whom my sins had pierced, and
exclaimed, "This is my beloved Savior, I want no more!
This is my Friend and my Brother, my Lord and my God!"

What a sin-killing, self-abasing sight! Every high thought
and towering imagination fell down flat before Him like
Dagon before the ark. When I saw, by the eye of faith,
His pierced hands and feet, and that He shed His blood
for me--so interesting did the sight appear that I was
lost to every other thought--as if I were the only sinner
in the world that had been the procuring cause of His
sufferings. Now I could say--"Lord, I have heard of You
many times by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye
sees You; therefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust
and ashes!"

Then did the Lord bind up my wounded spirit by pouring
in oil and wine as fast as I could receive it, one passage
of Scripture after another being applied to my soul so
fraught with comfort and divine consolation.

From the autobiography of Frances Wernham

Hmm... was just recently talking to a friend of mine, who has been helping me through my struggles... and I came upon the feeling that I could identify with the elder son in the parable of the Prodigal Son...

I can't understand my father's love towards the prodigal brother because, I, Myself, have never left the home and experienced the 'lost' feeling that the brother had. I haven't experienced the father's grace because I feel that I haven't sinned against my father.

What will it take... must I go out and sin in order for myself to know how sinful I am?

If that's what it's going to take, I will do it.

rahhhhhhhh

Sam, Quote; "What will it take... must I go out and sin in order for myself to know how sinful I am?

If that's what it's going to take, I will do it.

rahhhhhhhh"

I thought you were serious about your thoughts about God. Now you sound like a small child that is having a tantrum because he did not get his way. You can only push God so far and He will push back. You won't like the disciplining of a son. I guarantee it. I have been disciplined to the point that I did not think I could take any more. Then is when it got serious. If you want to challenge God, guess who will win. The prodigal son was feeding the pigs and it was the only thing he had to eat also, then is when he went to his father. The elder son was worse off in his self pride than the Prodigal son, who was honest on his knees before his father.

When you first started this abasement of yourself I thought you were being honest. Well with your last post I can see you are not and only set on your own self worth and want God to be servant in your petty manipulation of words and thoughts in deceiving others to believe you are sincere. You don't need any training in sin, it is apparent. I will still pray for you in the hopes you will someday see your death on the Cross of Christ and become a child of God. Every knee will bow and yours will be one of them, as mine will also.

Tell me How Christ died and I will show you How He lives in the spirit's, hearts, and lives of believers that Love Him. Even in that it is His Love in them that give us the ability.

In The Love of Christ: Phillip

I was merely repeating the fact that I do not acknowledge sin to the extent of which I should.

Do drug dealers, rapists, murderers, prostitutes ever have a hard time coming to Christ ?

No... why is that ? Why is the repeating trend that the 'scum of the earth' surrender their lives so easily and willfully ?

I am convinced that it is because they know the state of which they are in, completely lost and without hope, completely wretched and thoroughly filthy.

'I have have found by long experience that the severest threatenings of the law of God have a prominent place in leading men to Christ. They MUST see themselves LOST before they will cry for MERCY; they'll not escape danger UNTIL they see it.' - A.B. Earl

I apologize that your method of grace, love, accept Christ and it is done doesn't work for me. I still have a strong feeling that my heart must be broken before I can have any dealings with Christ Jesus. I am not concerned about Jesus at the moment... I'm only concerned about how I am @ enmity with the Holy God. Jesus came to heal the broken hearted. He says that only the sick need a physician. I am not under that category at the moment.

As John Wesley states... 90% law and 10% grace... I've still yet to work through the law and bring myself to understand how lost and condemned I really am.

I know in my mind that I am sick. But I don't feel it. The problem is, how do I get this KNOWLEDGE into my HEART.

I'm apologize that I've grown up in church my entire life, and my heart is comparable to Pharoah's I believe. If I could become a Christian so easily, I would, but I have found throughout these past couple of months, I cannot. I yet lack utter brokenness, I've yet to cry mercy from within.

[i]'When you first started this abasement of yourself I thought you were being honest. Well with your last post I can see you are not and only set on your own self worth and want God to be servant in your petty manipulation of words and thoughts in deceiving others to believe you are sincere. You don't need any training in sin, it is apparent. I will still pray for you in the hopes you will someday see your death on the Cross of Christ and become a child of God. Every knee will bow and yours will be one of them, as mine will also.'[/i]

Can you really read my inmost being? Can you honestly tell me that you know me that well, good enough to tell me that I am only out for my self worth, and want God to be my servant? Are you God? May God break you. I wish to retaliate towards you and say that it is because of people like you, many do not enter into the fullness of Christ.

I honestly would rather you not pray for me. But if you must, pray that God would break me.

Phillip, let me tell you something. I wish to go out and evangelize, I want to go out and do the Lord's will. Do you have any idea of how many people I wish to talk to about God ? So many kids back in my youth group back @ home. So many kids @ the church where my older brother is pastoring. So many young adults here on campus who don't know the sincere word of God. All the adults in any congregation in these dead cemetaries we call church, I wish to speak to them.

But oh, how I will blush when they ask me how I came to know the Lord. 'What is your testimony, why should we pay any attention to you?'

What will I say? That I said, 'Jesus I believe.' And I became born again?

Blasphemy. I am not willing to lie like that. Sure I can preach like all these dead pastors do. I can come up with a message to make them think about some stuff, but there will be no movement of God in their lives. Why? Because I lack. I will not step out in God's name without anything short of a baptism of the Holy Ghost. I will continue my search, whether I do so in your contempt or not, I really do not care.

PETER'S REPENTANCE

'Christ had said to him: "Thou canst not follow me now" (John 13:36). Peter was not in a fit state to follow Christ, because he had not been brought to an end of himself. He did not know himself, and he therefore could not follow Christ.

But when he went out and wept bitterly, then came the great change. Christ previously said to him: "When thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren" (Luke 22:32). Here is the point Where Peter was converted from self to Christ.

But remember, before Christ could fill Peter with the Holy Spirit and make a new man of him, he had to go out and weep bitterly; he had to be humbled.'
- Andrew Murray - Absolute Surrender

Hmm... reading through Peter's Repentance...

I'm finding quite a lot of things... a revelation perhaps ?

We shall see where this leads me...

Wow! Sam, you sure have been persevering! I'm just going to share what I see so far. You said earlier:

Yes... I've counted the cost of what it will take
...What will it take... must I go out and sin in order for myself to know how sinful I am?

Someone earlier mentioned:

You will not be saved from your sins, you will be saved from Gods' wrath.
He will make you not accountable for your sins.

I feel that I haven't sinned against my father. ...I'm a zombie .... 'I Want Anguish' is truly what I want. I want to feel the pain for my open rebellion against God. I want to know the heart of God, as to how I've hurt and insulted His deity. My trouble is that I don't have any anguish for my sins.

Remorse and anguish, in itself is not the path to God. Judas felt so much anguish that he could not live with it. So he escaped by ending his life.
Anguish is not the path to God (in itself) Neither is even Edward’s sermon (in itself)

The path to God requires honesty. “Surely you desire truth in the inner parts” Ps. 51 “Search me, O God …. See if there is any offensive way in me…” Ps. 139:23,24

Earlier I challenged you:

So, now, I ask, who in your life do you need to let off the “hook”. Who are you angry at? Can you forgive all those who harmed you in the past, including your father, and the church in general? Are you prepared to walk into their lives with mercy, patience, and gentleness?

I hold no grudges against anyone... They are dead just as I am, why would I scream at a blind person,

I'm not as bad as you say I am,

Yet your initial testimony betrays some subtle anger:

I just recently got into an argument with my older brother who is an assistant Youth Pastor for his church. I told him not to take his youth kids to the mission field because his youth kids had no idea what it meant to be a Christian, and that they would only spread more false Christianity. My brother in turn yelled at me, and told me to get off my high horse.

I noticed your words:

I want to be able to repent. …I wrote down all of my sins … I've tried, but I feel no remorse for my sins …. I've yet to lay my life down... and I've come to believe its much more than a conscience decision, because I've tried that, and it doesn't work.

I think, probably a pastor's son has had plenty of unnoticed anguish, (apart from the specific matter you mentioned), and maybe it this is a useful time to begin to take stock of what it cost you to grow up in a family where your needs were not always your father's most pressing priority.

Take careful notice of her words:

…. unless you know how angry you are and why, true forgiveness is not readily accessible.

Dorcas adds:

I feel that part of your sense of deadness, is in fact, numbness, and while you may not need to 'feel' all the pain which that numbness is concealing - which is God's grace to you, to enable you to pull through - it does need to be acknowledged, by you, and you should begin to understand what it means. This is where anger comes in, although you may feel completely unemotional at the moment....

She is right. Numbness is given by God’s grace to those who have been deeply wounded, because it would have be unbearable to feel the full brunt of the anguish. But at some point God works in our lives to set us free from those defences, and move us towards maturity in him. And that process is never neat and tidy. Thankfully the Spirit doesn’t reveal all our hurts, pain, and sins at once. If he did, we couldn’t survive.

God I know you can save me... what's holding You back... what's holding me back... what's going on ?

Much of our wrestling with God is us trying to hold those doors shut and he is trying to open them. This can be an exhausting time. But hang in there. It's great that you are not settling for quick-fix solutions.

Can you accept Christ’s yoke – rest in his promised forgiveness, and TRUST him to get to the finishing line?

Diane

You know, you have begun this process in public, but, you do not have to finish it in public....

Had a similar thought yesterday. This may be the best counsel to date Sam. The prayer closet is where you must go. Take the scriptures with you, in your heart, in your head, before your eye's, however and in whatever combination.

This is your hour of crisis Sam, and if we don't stop offering up more suggestions I fear we will just be getting in the way of what the Lord is doing.

Pray Sam, [i]Pray![/i]
Listen more than speak.
Pray yourself into silence.
Read s l o w l y.

If you must have more conviction read Jeremiah, hover over the difficult things ... More suggestions, goodness ... I think we need to stop giving them to you, they may be worthless, glean what you may and ignore the rest.

Sam, there may be but one thing the Lord is asking of you and one thing you are unwilling to let go of.... It is not for public consumption, not now and maybe not ever. You may need to repent of your repentance ... Brother, when I finally came to an end of myself it was an alternating and simultaneous "yes\
o" ... "Yes, Lord...", "No, I am not ready..." (To give up my sin, though I knew that I really did want to deep down) Back in forth it went, the natural and the spiritual at war. To look back now, even in the paradoxical strangeness of it all ... 'Instantly' nothing changed and yet everything changed, it wasn't until quite a long time afterward that I was able to look [i]back[/i] and realize just how profound a moment it truly was.

It was an inception for sure, a beginning and a continuation, not a 'conclusion'. Yours will be uniquely yours and that only can be known by yourself and the Lord.

Something just dawned on me ...

Has it occurred to you that there is the distinct possibility that you have already been accepted and you are now fighting against it?

Don't answer here until you have answered it with the Lord.

May He smite the stubbornness right out of you.

'What is the necessary consequence of this (Fall of Man) ?

It is this:

There could then have been no such thing as faith in God thus loving the world, giving his only Son for us men, and for our salvation.

There could have been no such thing as faith in the Son of God, as "loving us and giving himself for us."

There could have been no faith in the Spirit of God, as renewing the image of God in our hearts, as raising us from the death of sin unto the life of righteousness.

Indeed the whole privilege of justification by faith could have had no existence; there could have been no redemption in the blood of Christ; neither could Christ have been "made of God unto us," either "wisdom, righteousness. sanctification" or "redemption."'

-God's Love to Fallen Man - John Wesley

I've never quite thought about it that way... God allowing us humans to fall... in order that we may come back to him willingly... although the Father knew He would have to give His only begotten Son to be cursed on a tree in order to do so...

Puts a different spin on things, dont ya reckon?

*shakes head*

God is good after all

I now understand what Paris Reidhead said about John Wesley, of how he exalted the Righteousness of God...

Now I can begin to see how offensive my sin is to God... my deliberate disobedience...

I feel the kingdom of God is drawing near.

Sam wrote: "And I respond, 'I'm not as bad as you say I am, look at what I've done for You, look at how I struggle for You... I'm not that bad...really...'

But still He asks, 'Who are you?

Job 34:31-37 Surely it is meet to be said unto God, I have borne chastisement, I will not offend any more: That which I see not teach thou me: if I have done iniquity, I will do no more. Should it be according to thy mind? he will recompense it, whether thou refuse, or whether thou choose; and not I: therefore speak what thou knowest. Let men of understanding tell me, and let a wise man hearken unto me. Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom. My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men. For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.

Isa 26:3 Thou wilt keep [him] in perfect peace, [whose] mind [is] stayed [on thee]: because he trusteth in thee.

When God does it we learn wisdom, the wisdom of Christ in you the Hope of Glory. When man does it we learn rebellion. Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

More of Him and less of me. Phl 3:10 That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable unto His death;

Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

In vain won't happen, God the Father will see to that.

In Christ: Phillip

roadsign wrote:

You will not be saved from your sins, you will be saved from Gods' wrath.
He will make you not accountable for your sins.

This statement is one that I strongly disagree with. Through Christ we can indeed be saved FROM our sins – those bondages that keep us from moving on in his freedom.

God will put you there Himself for rejecting the sacrifice that Jesus paid on the cross, along with His resurrection. That is the only reason fo going to hell.

Being saved from the wrath of God is what we are all escaping from, [b]not our sins.[/b]

Again, our sins do not send us to hell, our sins are only the evidence that God uses against us. If our sins haven't been washed away by His atoning blood, then the evidence against us is what God uses to condemn us on the Day of Judgment.

Now then, how does God prove that evidence?
He uses His Law.

What does His Law do?
The Law is used to show us that we cannot uphold His righteous standards and we are incapable to do them and that we need to be changed from within in order to accomplish the Law. The Law not only shows us that we sin, it also shows us why we need to be changed most of all.

The question remains, how are we changed from within in order to accomplish the Law?

He gives us Eternal Life and that is what changes us. This is also how one knows HIM.
[b]John 17:3[/b] [color=990000][b]Now this is eternal life:[/b] [u]that they shall be knowing You,[/u] the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You sent.[/color]

You see, we all are born spiritually dead and therefore we are all soulish in nature. Our souls rule our physical bodies.

When we become born again, we become spiritually alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord and no longer soulish. Our souls, then, need to be the servant to our spirits to rule our flesh in a Godly manner.

It is the soul that we battle everyday, who will rule? Will it be our soulish passion to walk after the flesh, or will it be our spirit, to life in Christ Jesus which has made me free from the law of sin and death [color=990000]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[/color][b]Romans 8:4[/b]

That is what is meant by being a new creature in Christ: [b]2Corinth 5:17[/b] [color=990000]Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.[/color]

In other words, we recieve a changed life, a new view on life, and a new motive for everything that we do. In these new aspects of our life will become actions or works that give a testimony of Christ in us.

Sam Yoon:
You need to be saved in order to act saved. You are putting the cart before the horse.

You want all these character traits that will only come when you are changed from with in.

I was merely repeating the fact that I do not acknowledge sin to the extent of which I should.

Do drug dealers, rapists, murderers, prostitutes ever have a hard time coming to Christ?
No... why is that ? Why is the repeating trend that the 'scum of the earth' surrender their lives so easily and willfully ?

I am convinced that it is because they know the state of which they are in

completely lost

without hope

completely wretched and thoroughly filthy.

tell me, how do you think you will become the way you think you need to be in order to be saved.
Listen to all the sermons you want, they will not change you or make you more repentant, Only Jesus will.

Just take HIS offer for Eternal Life and get on with it.
No need for all this stuff you are wanting, they will come with the new life.

I know in my mind that I am sick. But I don't feel it. The problem is, how do I get this KNOWLEDGE into my HEART.

Brother Sam, It is with a tender heart that I write this. Put down the books of men, and cast yourself upon CHRIST. If others have suggested this already, then may truth be established by one or two witnesses.
These books are heaping a condemnation upon you, but is it conviction from GOD Himself, or are you trying to live to the standards of these men?
GOD created one Charles Finney, one John Wesley, and one Sam. HE has the right to dictate to you what is wrong and what needs to be repented of, not the writings of men.
I write these things because I was very much like you in that I would read these mighty men of GOD's words and then determine that I too must live as they did or certainly I was no Christian. Yet the problem here is that we are not called to live like them, but like CHRIST. So you must labour to know HIM, HIS voice, HIS words, and not the words and traditions of men. They are good, but right now in your state they are not profitable.
Read your BIBLE alone for now, and do not try to live to the LAW of man's traditions, or compare your experience with anything but CHRIST and HIS words.
I believe that HE is closer than you know, but you are not willing to let HIM forgive you. Do not look for the "feeling" of forgiveness, but in faith trust HE has forgiven you. If you confess, and repent of sins, then let them go, and rejoice that GOD for CHRIST's sake has forgiven you!!
I hope this is of some help to you.

roaringlamb,

I can't agree more with your post totally. It's been in my experience,in the past, how "great' men's books threw me into confusion, burdened me excessively with their convictions, not to mention, at times, caused me to offend GOD,when I treasured what they said instead of what GOD says.

I suppose sometimes one has a tendency to take on a sense of intellectual gratification when one labors in man's works rather than GOD's WORD.

In Christ

Sam,

Just want you to know that you continue to be in my prayers, as well as the prayers of our fellowship.

I am praying that the Lord God of heaven will honor the years your mother has labored for you in the prayer closet and have come into agreement with the cries of her heart these many years. I believe that Jesus is going to honor all of her years of labor for your soul.

It's tough to break the heart of a religionist, which I certainly when I was your age, but the Lord God was able to break my heart and I trust Him to do the same in your heart.

I'll be very straight with you. If the Lord told you to repent, then just repent. If He told you to make restitution than do it. Restitution is an element of any real repentance, as you know by looking at the story of Zacheus.

Self-condemnation is simply another excuse for real repentance, so don't condemn yourself just do what the Holy Spirit tells you to do. Conviction of sin is also not repentance, although it is a wonderful gift of God you must decide whether you're through with this life of sin.

Keep in mind that when you pray, it's not always the Holy Spirit you hear. When I began to earnest pray and seek Jesus in 2001 (something I hadn't done in close to 20 years), the only thing I could hear was "Why don't you just curse God and die?"

It had been years since I read the Bible but I thought I remembered that from Job and began to read it. It took a long period of time because God wanted to know if I was serious about following Him. I knew it wasn't God.

I'm praying for you to have discernment. I would turn off the internet for a season and spend your time in prayer and in the word. If you need to reach me, you know how to do so.

Blessings to you Sam. Jesus is going to make you His own Sam.

I leave with the lyrics from Keith Green's "Rushing Wind." I prefer to call it "Born again."

Rushing wind blow through this temple,
Blowing out the dust within,
Come and breathe you breath upon me,
Ive been born again.

Holy Spirit, I surrender, take me where you want to go,
Plant me by your living water,
Plant me deep so I can grow.

Jesus, you're the one, who set my spirit free,
Use me Lord, glorify, your holy name through me.

Separate me from this world Lord.
Sanctify my life for you.
Daily change me to your image,
Help me bear good fruit.

Every day youre drawing closer.
Trials come to test my faith.
But when all is said and done lord,
You know, it was worth the wait.

Jesus, youre the one, who set my spirit free,
Use me Lord, glorify, your holy name through me.

Rushing wind blow through this temple,
Blowing out the dust within,
Come and breathe you breath upon me,
For Ive been born again.

Take Me as I am - Lecrae

I talked with a cat the other day and he was like 'Man...I really want to give my life to Christ, but I feel like I have to clean my life up first, get my sins together.'

I told him, 'I used to think that way too, I thought i had to clean my life up first, but Christ changed me, Let me tell you my story.. it starts like this...'

Its 5:46 in the morning; tossin and turnin; chest burnin; sermons in my head keep reoccurring; havin visions in my head of a kid, cryin at the feet of the Father for all the wrong things that he did; now im sweatin in my sheets, cant sleep; my mind keeps
tellin me im 6 feet deep; dont remind me; even though im still alive i cant tell; the way im livin my life i feel im goin to hell; God, they tellin me i should accept You; that you had to leave the world cause the world left You; reason i cant change; like a mystery to me; even though they say You loved the world so much You shed Your blood; God, i feel im too messed up for love; they tell me come as i am; but i smell like smoke; my whole life is full
of sin cause its all i know; the bible told me that You died for my sins; if i believe in Christ to save me from the end; but im scared to ask You to save me; my heart so evil, ive got thoughts just full of hatred; hurt from people; i thought that first i had to clean up my life; now im here and i just gotta cling to the light; im ready to do it, but Lord, i pray You understand; my life is a mess, will You take me as i am ?

Will You take me as i am; i know the way im livin is wrong, but i cant change on my own tryin to make it alone; i wonder, how could You love me with my life so ugly; but You came down and died for me.

im still tryin to be the man my daddy never taught me to be; im grown up now, life aint what i thought it would be; i made many mistakes in my past i cant fix; now im starin at this crucifix, tatted on my wrist; is it true what they tellin me am i just crazy; did You bleed on the cross for my sins to save me; but why would You die for me; my whole life ive been workin for Satan while he fed lies to me; and now im hearin too much; tryin to get in true touch; about a love that can change me; im all screwed up; figured hell is what i deserve; but Your word says we all fall shook; so i guess we all owe a bird; teach me i want to learn; how You can save a wretch like me before death says its my turn; i think i finally understand; no matter my past You'll still take me as i am.

Will You take me as i am; i know the way im livin is wrong, but i cant change on my own tryin to make it alone; i wonder, how could You love me with my life so ugly; but You came down and died for me.

i had a few last words to give; ive been tellin people the reason to live, the reason to die; united with the King of the Sky; this life is passin us by, ive got no reason to lie; you'll never give the world enough; they'll hunger for more; they're fickle their ways are nothin to the wondrous Lord; more security than the man who left you; or more love than the mommas who kept you; He'll always accept you; be everything your supposed to; let Christ rule your heart mind body and soul because He chose you; and if the world dont know you; it dont matter, your God's child and He'll never disown you; your purpose on earth is far from worthless; thats why you glorify like your life's been purchased; and it dont matter if the world dont see us; we still mean the world to Jesus.

You're saved by grace through faith, there's no amount of works you can do to get this great salvation. It's only Christ, so if you feel like you gotta clean yourself up first before you can come to Him... forget it. Just come to Him. He'll take you as you are, He'll change you, from the inside...out.

==============

I'm retiring from sermonindex until I come to know Christ as my saviour. Thanks you guys.

Jhn 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Sam, you sound like a Angle sent from God. He knows the truth but wants all who suffer condemnation to be set free in Christ Jesus. In Christ Jesus, He, God The Father, has sent the Holy Spirit Himself to proclaim this to the Lost. Whether an Angle or the Holy Spirit. Thanks for the reminder of who is our life, "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

In Christ: Phillip

hi, i have studied for forty some years and here is my 2 cents. Jesus loves me this i know for the bible tells me so. nercy there was great and grace was FREE pardon there was multiplied to me there my burdened soul found victory,AT CALVARY. jimp

New prayer request...

I need help over my unbelief...

That Christ died for me...

Pray for me guys... please

You could not have unbelief in you unless believing was already doing its work in you.

Your prayer is being answered as we speak.

He is in you. It is no longer you who live but Him who lives in you. You will know Him and Him crucified. 1Cr 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

In Christ by His work: Phillip

Being saved from the wrath of God is what we are all escaping from, not our sins.

Sorry brother, but the Lord Jesus said to the Pharasees, "Except you believe that I Am, you shall die in your sins".

To die in ones sins is to die unredeemd from sin. that is to die under the just penalty and wrath for sin. It is sin that will condemn us.

Yes, we experience this condemnation because of our unbelief and failure to come to Christ who is our redemption. But redemption from what? From wrath? Yes from wrath. But what is the basis of wrath? Sin. Wrath is poured out upon sinners for sin. It was God's wrath agains sin which Christ's bore on the Cross.

God made Him who knew no sin to become sin on our behalf, that we might become the rightousness of God in Him.

It was sin that God judged in the Cross in Christ and sin which will take us to the lake of fire if we are outside of Christ.

Christ is the end of the law for rightousness to everyone who believes, but to those who do not believe in Christ, the law is in effect. It is still there and will condemn because it is the rightouse requirement of God. Christ fullfilled all rightousness of the law and died in our stead, but for those outside of Christ, the wrath of God abides upon them because they are still in their sins.

"Christ came into the world to save sinners", not wrath bearers. To save from what? "He shall save His people from their sins".

Just a Moses lifted up the Serpant in the Wirldernss, so must the Son of Man be lifted up that whosoever believes into Him might not perish but have Life which is Eternal"

What is this refering to? The Children of Isreal sinned and were bitten by Serpants and were perishing in the Wildernses. Moses was instructed to make a Bronze Serpant and lift it up and those who looked upon the Bronze Serpent lived. Even so, it is because we have sinned that we perish and bny looking unto the Crucified and resurrected Christ, we are made alive and live. Our sins condemn us but Christ has redeemed us and in Him we live.

Graftedbranch

Graftedbranc wrote:

Being saved from the wrath of God is what we are all escaping from, not our sins.

Sorry brother, but the Lord Jesus said to the Pharasees, "Except you believe that I Am, you shall die in your sins".

It was sin that God judged in the Cross in Christ and sin which will take us to the lake of fire if we are outside of Christ.

Hell is the place of the dead.
When we become saved, we recieve Eternal Life.
Haveing Eternal Life is when our spirits become alive, Heaven is the place of the liveing. [b]Mark 12:27[/b] [color=990000]He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.[/color]

[b]Eph 2:3b[/b] [color=990000]were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
2:5a Even when we were [b]dead[/b] in sins, has made us [b]alive[/b] together with Christ,[/color]

Haveing Eternal Life is when our spirits become alive, Heaven is the place of the liveing.

I would say Amen to this except that heaven is not the destination of the redeemed but the New Jeruslaem in the New earth under the New heavens. The Bible does not end with heaven and believers in heaven but with the City of God decending from God to the New Earth (Revelation 21).

We need to get past our traditional religious concepts of heaven and come to the scriptures to find God's revelation of His building, the New Jerusalem which is the Wife of the Lamb, the Bride of Christ which is not in heaven but decends from God to the New Earth. This is the end of the Bible and the destiny of believers and the consumation of Christ's salvation, Not heaven.

Graftedbranch

Graftedbranc wrote:

I would say Amen to this except that heaven is not the destination of the redeemed but the New Jeruslaem in the New earth under the New heavens.

When ever I use the word heaven, it encompasses both the Third Heaven and New Jeruslaem.