Questionable Song - Be Magnified

Karl,

It doesn't sound like you are asking for anyone's opinion. It seems as though you have made up your mind about this song.

Murray

And I have believed in a lie
that you were unable to help me

To me this is saying:
"I used to thnk that you were unable to help me."

Probably the song really is an admission of past unbelief. Maybe should be worded: "I never trusted you, Lord, I never believed that you could help me."

Any confession-type song is really only as good as the heart of the one who sings it.

I used to worry about selecting songs that I knew people couldn't sing with honesty. Then I realized that I'd have to ditch pretty well all Christian songs. So now, I leave personal interpretation with God. I teach good songs, and I trust that, though they may be meaningless now, some day they may take on meaning.

Diane

I totally agree with Diane about the interpretation of the lyrics.

I think that if you look at the context of the quoted verses, you'll see that the writer is aluding to his past belief. He had previously believed that God was unable to help him.

I don't agree that the lyrics are worship material. How can you glorify God by singing about being deceived???

Onward,
Brad

I have met the writer of the song and she loves god and if you go to www.lynndeshazo.com
you can ask her ?

I love the song
Dom

Thats what I read too.
Looks to me that he sings thats it's a lie that God cannot help him.

Perhaps the singers have a great testimony behind this song! :)

http://www.lynndeshazo.com/articles/BeMagnified.pdf
Article on the song

Healing Waters, I remember this song, It's my favorite.

what is worship material?
Dom

This is one of these songs that I had to let go in defence of what the word says.

I am increasingly concerned that songs tell the people what they are doing, feeling, etc., than it being a legitimate expression of what the hearers feel. Like 'repeating prayers' they are ineffective often because the truths are not those who are reciting them. They do not originate in their hearts. If it is not my experience, I cannot in good conscience sing it [i]as if it were[/i]. This does not mean I am attacking this song, it means it may not be my experience, so it has no real relavance to me in terms of worship.

Hey Ormly,

I see what you mean, a few days ago when I was going through my 'opwekking' (which means revival I think) songbook I noticed some songs I could not simply sing. I had to pray first before I could sing it. Then I simply used elements in the song for a prayer.

Some of the song contained the words: "I love to spend all my time with you" Something like that.

Anyhow, I've noticed that songs are often sang to easily. In a concert it might be that people sing this because its a great song, not because thats true in their lives.
Does the world need more testimonies? We have alot and we should have enough. Still I didn't know from what heart the song was composed or sang by the singer. (which is posted later) :-)

now i dont watch tv often... but one time something got my attention, i saw one of the big praise singers who sing songs like these... and he was being interviewed by another famous person... he was talking about that he was living a lie that he had sined for so long and so on but when they asked him what the major issue was...he awnsered - the problem wasent really the sin itself it was that he was in the "category" of singing.... if he had been a wordly singer this wouldent be a problem...now i was amazed. this singer i know for a fact sells millions of records and people love him...and his lyrics and music may be loved by many. But he dont know god. The problem should have been his sin against god...not what his "fans" would think of him.

and sadly i se many people trying to mix some "whats hot in the world" in to the godly music... we must be careful what we listen to...becuse it effects us... I did this i compromised...i listen to something that was "wordly" the name the name jesus but its not of god. And when i comprimise whit a little.... then the next thing you know you do it again and again... this is very dangerus.

So dont compromise even a litle... now i love music, thats why i need to be careful. If the music is about god and for god uplifting god thats good. But if the music takes you closer to the music and makes your love bigger for music instead of god, thats what happend to me i started to love that feeling a good song can give you... i knew in my heart what they were singing and the music wasent godly but it got into my heart becuse i thought "its only music"

now the holy spirit showed me to the truth... im careful what i listen to now
but so many other people i belive need to think about what sort of music they let into their heart

gods peace to all of you
christian

Hey Karl,

I am sure that you have read the other postings. I believe that you may have been mistaken in your understanding of te song. It is a song of repentance for unbeliefe, and it reall does magnify God if you can understand that.

Also, be sure that, if the decived and the deciver are the Lords, then also you are the Lords my brother, because you were mistaken about this song. I hope you can see the sincere love in it. I can see the sincere love in you, though it was misdirected. God knows your heart, and you are only judged in light of your love for him...as well as we all are. If you have believed in a lie, well then, tell God. Worship him and his divine revelation of truth, Jesus, and his word as it is revealed. That is what we all do. We go from glory to glory, from faith to faith, just like in this song. The song directly implies that God is able to help us, ad I hope that maybee this has helped you.

Kevin

Basically, what I was hoping from this thread was not to bash this song, but rather was looking to see if any one else had either seen the same thing, or have experienced this in another song.

I do not believe that the LORD is mistaken when He spoke to me about it.

So [u]basically[/u] you were unsure of the Lord's leading on this point and desired to see if others would/could validate your 'judgment' of the song writers intent in the words?' Do not be too quick to judge others intents and motives, unless you have stood under judgment yourself.

God Bless the lovers of the Truth: The others who were able to discern the writer's heart in the words written. They tried to show you that you had misinterpreted the song's line into a statement of present fact when it seems clear to the rest of us that the line you object to

You [i]were[/i]unable to help me

Thanks Kevin for your kind words. I do not believe that the LORD is mistaken when He spoke to me about it. The song nagged at me, I was not against the song nor against the writer, I was singing like any normal believer. But it began to nag at my spirit that something was wrong with that one line, "You were unable to help me".

What was wrong was your interpretation of the line in it's proper context. We all agree that God is able to help ALL in ALL circumstances and instances but many who do not know Him as we do have their doubts. We cannot point fingers or poke fun at those doubts as they are as real as the concrete they stand on at the time...it is only in the light of Christ and the ministering of the Holy Spirit that we learn for ourselves what real truth is.

Songs are like sermons...what may simply encourage you the most might be a pretty poor example to the person sitting next to you BUT it is the clarion call of the Lord and eternal life itself to one who has prayed for the Lord to shine into their life and reveal himself to them.

They too are as Moody describes ...

[i]I have often said that if I had to convict men of sin, I would have given up the work long ago. [b]That[/b] is the work of the Holy Spirit[/i].

Worship is in the heart of the worshipper. Some do so only on Sunday, in a building, from 11 to noon, some at others times during the day or week but we are to Worship God with our lives -every breath, every word, every motion of our bodies needs to be an expression of the love we feel for our God and bring Glory and Honor to only Him.

I’d wonder what kind of songs would be written if no one got paid for their songs, nor the middleman,

....or if their wasn’t any TV.

Diane

Robert said:

am increasingly concerned that songs tell the people what they are doing, feeling, etc., than it being a legitimate expression of what the hearers feel. Like 'repeating prayers' they are ineffective often because the truths are not those who are reciting them. They do not originate in their hearts.

Is this really anything new? I think it’s always been an inclination of any religious group and the purpose of rituals and traditions.

Really, we couldn’t even recite the 23rd psalm or the Lord’s Prayer in church if we wanted to avoid false proclamations.

No wonder it’s easier for a pagan to convert to Christ than one who has been well-churched. Of course – persecution has a way of weeding out the phoney. Do we want that?

One of the lines in the songs goes:

Heal my heart and show yourself strong

Perhaps these words express the singers' preference for God to do something magical, while they remain a passive recipient. Perhaps they are failing to assume THEIR OWN God-given responsibily.

I fear that many of our prayers/songs express a plea for God to do domething for us, when we have been given the responsibility to bring it about ourselves. And so, as we sit back, waiting for the magical moment, we fail to see God's power revealed, we fail to see ourselves "healed", or our besitting sins lifted away. Yet our hearts remain plagued with unbelief, worldly values, idols, etc.

To a fair extent, God HAS already given us answers, and we failed to notice. He has already revealed his power, but perhaps it's not the power we want. He already has given us ALL WE NEED to live a Godly life, but perhaps we fail to walk in it. (1 Pet. 1:3)

Should we keep begging for what we already have been promised?

Diane

And I have believed in a lie,That you were unable to help me.

I don't think there is any question but that this song writer is saying is that the lie he beleived is that God was unable to help him. That is, God's inability is the lie he believed.

HE is saying that he had been believeing a lie. The Lie is that God is unable to help him. Now he see's that he was wrong and it was a lie.

This is proven by the next line which says,

"But now O Lord, I see my wrong
Heal my heart and show yourself strong"

I don't know about the rest of the song, but I cannot see in it what you find objectionable. I think you are reading it wrongly.

Perhaps these words express the singers' preference for God to do something magical, while they remain a passive recipient. Perhaps they are failing to assume THEIR OWN God-given responsibily.

Are we not nit picking here? Come on. It is not an extreamly deep song. But it is not a wrong song. "Show yourself stong on my behalf" is from the Psalms and is perfectly legitimate.

It suffers not from error but just from being a typical fairly shallow song seeking some personal healing or benifit, not wrong, not even inappropriate, but just not so deep.

Nothing of Christ, nothing of redemption, nothing of the cross, nothing of God's indwelling Life, nothing of "Christ in you, the hope of Glory", But nevertheless it is as legitimate as any Psalm which says, "Lord Help, Lord save, etc."

IT's great deficiency is that it is typical, me centered, and devoid of the realities of the New Testament, which is our union with Christ in spirit and His indwelling life. It rather sees God as "out there" looking down and offering to reach down and help. It is lookning for an outward demonstration of power but fails to realize God's indwelling Presnece and all the riches of Christ which we have in Him.

It is the cry of a creature to God, not the cry of a redeemed regenerated son of God to His Father in whom He has access in One Spirit through Jesus Christ.

Graftedbranch

Healingwaters wrote:
I had a qualm with one line in the song, "you were unable to help me".

there is this scripture in Matt 13:58When Jesus had finished these parables, he moved on from there. 54Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. "Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?" they asked. 55"Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother's name Mary, and aren't his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? 56Aren't all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?" 57And they took offense at him.
But Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown and in his own house is a prophet without honor."
[b]And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.[/b]I may be dragging something out that may not even be there, but! Could this person have lived in this town? Could this be a testimony of someone who had believed the lie that he is unable to help, and notice not unwilling? Lived in the throng, moved with the crowd, this is not the messiah?

This is a knife edge kind of thing because we are dealing with Gods sovereignty on the one hand and mans apparent ability to challenge it. I think that is your beef, excuse if this obvious to some, so as some have said it may be the writers camera shot of one momment in time. I am sure someone in this world has felt the way the writer did and can relate to that experience.
This is stuff for a whole thread on its own.

It saddens me deeply to see someone so unhappy during worship. Is it the corporate worship that bothers you or the fact that they do not worship like you want them to? Are you seeking to glorify God and worship Christ or to worship your 'personal idol' of worship- a specific choice of style and methods that others do not share?

I for one am sick of being where the "worship team" is trying to manipulate/move me to shallow thinking of whatever it is they are trying to get me to embrace.

I say shallow because of the lack of the revelation of Christ in the their music [if His name is even mentioned at all] and their manner of dress. I've seen the undershirts and spiked hair.

Christ is not glorifed? Again, it appeares that you are judging the heart of the song writers, the praise team and the worship leader who is presenting the music to God in Worship to Him...in the manner and style that they, and the rest of the congregation, are accustomed to.

Who is not experiencing [or being allowed to experience] the revelation of Christ ...you? If the others who are worshipping in the church with the praise team were not expreriencing any revelation of Christ then, from personal experience, I can tell you that the praise team would not be in front of you for long.

We are not there to worship [b][i]for you, [/i][/b] we are there worshipping Christ and you can join or [as you have said you do so often say you do] leave, if it makes you feel uncomfortable.

I know of such "worshipful" experiences expressed as "gigs" by the members of the group.

They don't have a [S]pirital clue and church "leadership" allows such [s]pirits to "lead" others to worship in what is supposed to be the sanctuary of God.. Go figure.

How you have told them how you feel during their worship?

Oh, because the 'leadership' allows it you will go along with the mob mentality? Have you spoken to them about your feelings? Or is that when they have 'asked you to leave' as you've expressed in other posts?

Dear one, as a member of a congregation dually serving as a Praise Team member and as an Elder, I have faced this issue on many, many occasions and I'll advise you as I have advised others in your dilemma...if you are as put upon as you are posting, I'd either do all that I could to fix all the problems where you are...specifically show them the 'errors of their ways'

OR

find a different church to worship at and get on the important part of life...worshipping God and Glorifing Him by following Christ and lifting Him to the unsaved.

Your Quote:

I love most worship songs, songs that lift Christ up and some that lift the body of Christ up together with Him in heavenly places.

Agreed, But I was not focused entirely on your opinion of the lyrics but entirely on the LYRICS.

Come with me please, and let’s sing.
=========================
"I have made you too small, in my eyes
O Lord, forgive me
And I have believed in a lie
That you were unable to help me.
But now O Lord, I see my wrong
Heal my heart and show yourself strong
And in my eyes, AND with my song
O Lord, be magnified
O Lord, be magnified"
==========================

Have you ever made God too small in your eyes? Of course you have and needed to repent, truly repent from this sin of unbelief.

Have you ever taken your eyes of God, and placed them on your problems and or circumstance? Of course you have even if it was for just a one second you have, and needed to repent from this sin of unbelief.

And I have believed in a lie that you were unable to help me.
Have you ever been told that this is too big -- God can not help you?

I like songs, that speak from a true heart,(THAT) is my weakness. Yes I know you and I know what you have been through. I can see that you draw your strength from HIM. I can see your heart, and the bible says that, those who are broken and of a contrite Spirit he will not despise.

During my journey this wonderful week I was led to Isaiah (40) where it speaks about God the person of God. I was led to 1 John where it speaks about worshipping God, Yes too often we tend to have a mind frame of Worshipping Jesus, where in actuality It’s God who we should be worshipping the FATHER. It’s because of his LOVE, that his son Jesus died
on the Cross. For God so loved the World that he gave his only begotten son, but I also learned that it’s his son who will save me, and guide me. He will be mine and I will be his. It was written before the foundations of the world and it is TRUE, because it is Spirit, is it not?

During this wonderful journey, I was led to purchase a CD, let me sing,, if you will these lyrics for you from the Psalmist.

SEPARATED UNTO THE LORD

What is holiness? Many people think we become holy by the eradication of something evil within. No, we become holy by being separated unto God. In the Old Testament times, it was when a man was chosen by God to be altogether his that he was publicly anointed with oil and was then said to be “Sanctified”. Thereafter he was regarded as set apart to God. In the same manner even animals or material things – a lamb, or the gold of the temple - could be sanctified, not be the eradication of anything evil in them, but by being thus reserved, let me say that again, but by being RESERVED exclusively to the Lord. “Holiness” in the Hebrew sense meant something thus set apart, and all true holiness is holiness “to the Lord” (Exude 28:36). I gave myself over wholly to Christ: that is holiness.

Presenting myself to God implies a recognition that I am together his. This giving of myself is a defninite thing, just a definite as reckoning. There must be a day in my life when I pass out of my own hands into his, and from that day forward I belong to him and no longer to myself. (By Watchman Nee)

In my journey I realized that it is not good to be alone, and God never intended for any of us to be alone, that is why Paul quotes, do not forsake the fellowship of the saints. Do not forsake IT, because we need each other,, I need you even if I don’t speak to you, I need you and your presence alone can and does minister to me. (Your silence speaks louder then your words)

But now O Lord, I see my wrong,
Heal my Heart and Show yourself strong,
And in my eyes, AND with my song o Lord, be Magnified.

May we continue in prayer and exulting the King of kings, and the Lord of Lords, the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End.
May we continue to pray for his divine will and purpose, and may his Holy Spirit have his way, where (no flesh) absolutely (no flesh) is involved. May we honor and Treasureak our time of waiting for his WILL and his SPIRIT, Amen and Amen.

We should examine every song that we sing and test it against Scripture. I remember one song that was sung at my old place of worship where part of it said "every cry, you are listening no matter what state my heart is in" You say soo. Well doesn't the book of Psalms say that if I regard iniquity in my heart, GOD will not hear my prayer?
We must be careful, because the way these songs are done now a days, they are more like mantras than anything else. The same lines over and over, and over. Then people begin to believe what they are singing as truth, and some even begin to base their theology upon it!
My point is this, even if you are a tenth of a degree off on a compass, if you go long enough you'll end up way of the mark.

Someone once said, " God has given us 150 psalms, why is it necessary for people to write their own praises?"

I like that, writing is a hard enough task for me, let alone writing songs to praise the Almighty God in an appropriate way.

nah..impossible!
mml

writing is a hard enough task for me, let alone writing songs to praise the Almighty God in an appropriate way.

I agree. I thought I'd comment about something in the same vein as this discussion.

How many church worship songs do you hear people crying out for more more more? "...More love more power..." Or songs about being thirsty that are sung in many churches every Sunday. It seems their thirst is still unquenched. But didn't Jesus say (Jn 4:13-14) whoever drinks his living water will never thirst again?

Of course I think we should always be pressing into Jesus more, and asking him to give us renewing desires for him, but sometimes I fear that the church is offering an undercurrent message with these songs saying: "You can't ever really be as close to God, you need more."

Someone once said: "The Jesus people in the 70s were overfilled with songs of excitement from knowing Jesus, but today's young "cutting edge" worshippers are constantly singing songs about being thirsty and hungry.

What do you guys think about that?

-Sean
____________
www.SeanDietrich.com
"All my music is free for download."

Sean,

Most songs written these days seem to be more self-gratifying than CHRIST-agrandizing. They are flesh entertaining more so than GOD honoring.

In some part of the world (I rather not mention which part), women write songs to 'praise' this 'jesus' ( I'm not sure that would be the same as our LORD JESUS), treating 'him' as their earthly lover, quite vulgar and nausiating if you ask me.

I have no problem with songs written to depict 'stories' occured in the bible theatrically , so long as they keep the reverence to GOD in tact, or leave the Deity unscathed. It's like, watching someone playing Moses is entirely different to watching someone playing the so-called 'jesus'. The former would be a play while the latter, to me, a blasphemy.

hm, I think I'm digressing, what are we talking about?

still working on writing better, thanks
:) mml
btw, Sean, your talent and your testimony are quite unique, please continue to developing it further to HIS glory with all reverence.

They sing a Song at our Church called'Can't nobody do me like Jesus," and I don't like it.
No one can Love us like Jesus.
The word do is inappropiate.
Jesus is to be Glorified.
Nellie

And I have believed in a lie

That seemed to solve what came afterword. To tell the truth I think a great deal of these replies say a lot more about what is going on in the heart then might be admitted. The song itself is simple and harmless, why the myopic inspection?

Fully realize the other addendums to worship music in general, but isn't this a bit much?

There are few of us, and growing in numbers.

Again I am reminded of the ditty that "if you are walking and talking with God and all of a sudden you realized that He's gone... [u]who moved[/u]?"

We are called into a [b]relationship[/b] with God through Christ. It not rules, rhymes, rhythms but a relationship. Close relationships deal with the changes that are experienced in a manner that indicates the individual's deep felt desire to maintain that right relationship. Like dancing, we move together... to the rhythm that we feel to maintain a closeness...minute pressures in the hands and hips guide our steps and make us one in body and in spirit.

Would you mind my asking .... is this your approachable voice? Does this suggestion mean you are open, personally, to the possibility that you are in error?

No, I do not mind, questions are never a problem...Yes, so far, in all cases the problem has been in the heart of the complainer. I always start a discussion of this sort by focussing on them and their desire to address the problem and draw them into a discussion...a offhand comment to complain is taken as it is given [unless vindictive in natrure and done in a public setting and then discipline is called for].

I immediately start a discussion by praying for [b]both[/b] of our hearts and ears be open to God's words and to allow for a spirit of love and to allow us to come to a concensus in the matter at hand. And, YES, this includes being personally open to the idea that we can be in error. The scriptures never, humans, consistently.

But[again so far] as we are corporately and personally comitted to worship in Spirit and in Truth, we measure all of efforts to that goal.

Usually, the complaint has to do with a dear ones [and they are [u]all[/u] dear] feeling as though the matter of their personal worship need or goal is not being met or their being distracted by the matter at hand: a song's lyrics, its tune, another person's attitude of worship, a lead worshipper's gesture... all deal with a personal departure of the 'norm' that "inhibits personal worship" by the complainer's focussing in it and not their worship of Christ.

Distractions, for some, are a matter of course in the process of worship, while others standing next to them are oblivious to the distraction. While sometimes unavoidable due to our human-ness, we always seek to minimize any man-made distractions for the worshipper.

If your church's corporate worship is becoming as distractions then either be ther prophet that calles then to task ro shake the dust from your feet and move on. We have had some move on but not for worships sake.

I think 'lifting Him to the unsaved', and 'worshipping God and Glorifying Him', are two different activities.

Overwealmingly, when we have asked our new members as to the draw to join our membership it has been the examples of the love of Christ that they have been experiencing in our worship of Him and as we allow that worship of God and the love of Christ to overflow into the rest of our lives, they always mention our joyful fellowship we share as we worship Him with our lives. We are like Andrew, so overjoyed to find Christ that we bring all of our brothers and friends to Him.

CONSENSUS

Scripturally, We look to our Brother Paul for his Holy Spirit inspired guidance...[i]I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you [b]agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you [/b]and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.[/i]1 Corinthians 1:10 [ Divisions in the Church ]

By Mr. Webster it's defined as [i]general or widespread agreement among all the members of a group[/i].

[i]“In essentials (doctrine) unity, in non-essentials (opinions) liberty, in all things charity.” [/i]- Rupertus Meldenius (Peter Meiderlin, the Lutheran priest) 1626

We seek to at all times, [b][i]“Speak where the Bible speaks and remain silent where the Bible is silent.” [/i][/b]- [i]“Declaration And Address”[/i] From Thomas Campbell, one of the leaders of the [url=http://www.therestorationmovement.com]Restoration Movement[/url].

But, as shepherds in dealing with the 'flock' there are times that issues among the members arise and must be resolved and we cannot remain silent and have relationships or even whole the church divided by those conflicts. These are those times that we will strive for unanimity but lacking that we will form a "consensus."

We use 1 Corinthians 1:10 as a body of church leaders to describe situation where we may not all agree to a specific statement or a practical solution to an issue or conflict but we are ALL in agreement that this is the course of action that scripture would dictate and we will support it unanimously.

Unfortunately, in some matters the offender cannot be corrected and we have to agree to disagree. At this point, we move to Ephesians 4:29 [i]Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.[/i] IF this is violated and it becomes divisive, we address it from Matthew 18:15-17 [usually it has already reached step 3 by this time] and allow the respondent's actions dictate the events and their consequences from there.

It saddens me deeply to see someone so unhappy during worship. Is it the corporate worship that bothers you or the fact that they do not worship like you want them to? Are you seeking to glorify God and worship Christ or to worship your 'personal idol' of worship- a specific choice of style and methods that others do not share?

Unhappiness in a worshp service can come from two sources. One is that we are in a wrong spirit and frame of mind and not in felloswhip with God. The other is when we are in a right frame and spirit and fellowship with God and the worship service is not.

A soulish worship service full of shallow repetition of unbiblical coruses repeated over and over to bring people into an emotional state of "worship" is contrary to the Spirit in our spirit and greives our spirit.

I say "Amen" to this brothers experience and consern.

I sometimes turn on a contemprorary Christian music station in my city and have to turn it off in a couple of minutes. The so called "worship songs" have nothing that touches the spirit. It is purely soulish. I say this not because I have a negateive opinion on any venue, but it is just the effect it has on one's spirit.

The content is Old testament. God is "out their and up their" and wholy related to His power in circomstances. But there is nothing of "Christ in you, the hope of Glory". Nothing of His indwelling Life. Nothing of the New Testament revealtion of Christ. He is worshiped as the one who sits in power above, but what of His indwelling Life and power to usward who believe? That is His indwelling Life and power to reveal Himself within us and to impart His Life within us. It is absent from the "worshp songs" and therefore has nothing of God's New Testemant economy.

Sadly this is the realty of what is passed off in contemporary Christian music. It is aimed at giving a little encouragment in our dreams and pursuits and to show us God is there to help us when we are down. But there is nothing of concecration, nothing of living by Christ, nothing of God's eternal purpose, Just God as our helper in our natural life.

The more time we spend in genuine fellowship in spirit with the living crucified and resurrected Christ and the more enjoyment we have of Him in His Word, the more our spiritual senses are quickened and the more we dicern the abismal lack in what is perpetrated as "Christian Worship".

When you become accostomed to solid food with genuine nourishment, you dicern the "cotton candy" of religion and emotional music which has no noursishment. You have a taste for realtiy and Life and substitutes leave you feeling cheated and gagged.

It is a matter of Life and the exprerience of Life and not a matter of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil. Not, 'this music is wrong becaus of what they wear, etc', but rather it expresses the shallow worship of the soul and does not express the reality of Christ in and by the Spirit. It is natural religion and not the reality of Christ and the New Testament.

Graftedbranch

Am I the only one feeling so small? I have been saved for almost 18 years. During that time frame, I have made many msitakes in the form of:
Hypocrisy
Slanderous talk
Unbelief/doubt
My experience has been one of falling and needing God to help me up because without Him I was/am nothing. More often than not, I was double-minded in my "theology" that I could do all things through Christ who strengthens me, however, I thought I has the responibility to take the horns of the alter and overthrow the complete sovereignty of God who wills and works His way with men. He rains/reigns on the just and the unjust. He performs His wonders for all men to see..He causes the hardening of hearts and He causes the softening of hearts. He and He alone is responsible for our salvation and for keeping us saved. He and He alone is worthy of praise for revealing error in our lives.

Have we forgotten the very primary element of failure before God? Have we not taken note of Satan's ministry which He abused through the sin of allowing pride to cloud his "JUDGEMENT". Can we never get past the first law of love...to love the Lord with ALL of our mind and strength?

I have experienced the depth of the mercy and grace of God. I have heard/read that a true Christian will not fall into sin, will not fall into temptation; that true Christians will recognize error in doctrine, mannerisms. We have allowed theology to drive us away from the very purpose of our existence...to worship HIM. There is no difference or scale of sin...we have all fallen short of the glory of God...we have all been deceived-if you deny this...you make the word of God as invalid as picking apart the writer of the song's heart and separating it into manageable parts for your own personal satisfaction and judgement.

I am a "member" of a local body that is so PRO-Southern Gospel, any other form/style of "worship" is inacceptable. This is denial of the current and fresh creativity of God. This is a form of rejecting the victory and overcomer's witness by the blood of the Lamb and the WORD OF OUR TESTIMONY. If all sins being equal with the exception of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, how can we self-righteously proclaim this song is not a corporate worship song and is it worth the division that our enemy desires?

Finally, do we know the history of music? Do we know that all music began as sacred? Do we know that even putting words to the melody was frowned upon in the early times? Do we know that changing the words from Latin caused division? Do we know that having women sing the songs was heresy at one time? Do we know that the melodies of "church" music became interchangeable with secular lyrics to make it palatable and gain acceptance? Do we know that today's music causes division...or is it the intents of OUR HEARTS?

Let us worship in Spirit and Truth.

Who ever heard of a truly spiritual and godly composition, being abrasive to the open spirit? It is not about style, if the style was approved by God. But style becomes everything, if people have to be reached on a cultural level, before they will even begin to start listening to the Lord's whisper in their heart.

You have touched on a very excellent point. The difficulty with much modern contemporary Christian music is it is based on a false premise that one must reach a person culturally before he can be reached spiritually.

"Attract them by the music and then grab them by the words," is the premise.

I like the little booklet by Watchman Nee called, "Deep calls unto deep". In it he shows how only what flows from our depths can touch the depths of another. Only what is from the Spirit in our spirit can touch the spirit of another and only what flows out from the deep recesses of our being can touch anothers' inner being.

All the music, all the methods, all the proper words cannot touch another's inner man. Only what flows from the Spirit in our spirit can inpart Life to another's spirit.

We don't need a certian kind of music to touch people in their soul to attract them to Christ. We need people who live in their spirit, are full of Christ and who have the deep experiences of Christ who can impart Life to others.

And any song or hymn which is not born of the deep and rich experiences of Christ, and which does not express the truth accurately and cohesively is of no spiritual value no matter how much "religious emotion" it may stirr up.

I had personally rather listen to real rock and roll and find it less offensive than contemporary "Christain rock and roll". At least the one is genuine and honest and not trying to pass itself off as something it is not.

But trying to appeal to the flesh of young people then tryng to slide the "gospel" in is a false way and not approved by God. And it is amazing how wattered down and worldly the gospel "slid in" actually is.

Graftedbranch

We have allowed theology to drive us away from the very purpose of our existence...to worship HIM.

I really don't believe that according to the Bible, worshipping God is the purpose of our existance.

God had in the angels those who would worship Him and do His bidding. But His purpose in creating man was much greater than this.

After creating all things there was a pause and a conference among the Godhead. "Let us make man in Our image and according to Our likeness". In the image of God created he Him, male and female created He them". "And God breathed into him the breath of life and man become a living soul".

God's eternal Purpose in creating man was to create him in His own image and likeness with a human spirit akin to God to be able to receive God as Life through eating of the Tree of Life and to contain God and express God.

As redeemed, regenerated, believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, we are much more than forgiven creatures created to worship God. No, we are children of God, born of His Life, partakers of His nature, being conformed to the image of the First Born Son of God by the indwelling Spirit of God to be His many sons brought into glory.

As creatures we worship God as our Creator, but as redeemed, regenerated children of God we worship God as our Father and our Source of Life. And in worshiping Him we partake of Him and find His life wrought in our being conforming us to His own image, lost in the fall, recovered in Christ and worked into us by the Spirit.

The difficulty with most the Christain worship music I hear is that it is the worship of a creature to his creator, for his power, mercy, ect. But nothing of the worship of sons to their Father who share in His Life through and in Christ and partake of His nature and who enjoy Him as their indwelling Life.

The fatherhood of God is held in a kind of general sense but nothing of the specific and real and genuine relationship of children to their Father who have His Life and His nature and who are being transformed into His image ultimatley to be like him both inwardly and outwardly and fully constituted with His life and nature to be His many sons.

Worship is not the end or the purose of our existance. Rather it is the proper relationship we have to God as both creature and as redeemed regenerated sons of God. But worship is not the end but the means to the end which is God having His eternal expression in man.

This purpose was frustrated by Satan, but recovered in Christ and consumated in the New Jerusalem which is the eternal Divine/human incorporation, the tabernacle of God, the city of God, the Wife of the Lamb and the eternal expresssion of God having His glory.

This is our hope and our present reality. And we need our eyes opened to know the riches of His inheritence in the Saints and the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. And to know the end to which He is working in us. That is, to work Christ into us, to constitute us with Christ to make us the same as He is in life and nature but not in the Godhead.

That, in the end, "We shall be like Him because we shall see Him as He is..."

Graftedbranch