talking in tounges???

ive read some of the threads here, but to be honest i almost get more confused. Maybe there is no simple awnser. But do you have to talk in tunges to be baptised whit the holy ghost ?? or what i meen is when you recive the baptism do you speak in tounges then? and if so do one always?

ive heard so much about this, but sometimes i see people and know of people that speak in tounges and then go light up a smoke. Now i cant understand it. But im so confused can u be baptised whit the holy ghost and dont speak in tounges? i know many who says ohh i im baptised !!
and i speak in touges.But they dont have any power it seems to me. what i meen is it seems like al they use this baptism for is to meet in church and outspeak one another in tounges.

now im no scollar but when i read the word it seems to me we recive the spirit to get power to spread the gospel.. to go out in the world...to boldly speak of jesus to everyone everywere...

now i want the baptism... i want to be filled... i want everything jesus have for me... and even if he dont have anything im glad anyway. I just want to serve him. I havent talked in tounges, ive had a "born again" experience. When i got a new heart a new mind and a new will for everything in my life...in one second i was changed. But as i understand i need this baptism to. It seems to importand to not to have. Maybe i can have a good christian life whitout it, but i want a FULL christian life.

is there any great men of god that dident speak in tounges? did they all do this? spurgeon? moody? wesley? finney? did all speak in tounges?

gods peace to you

christian

no one doesn't have to speak in tongues to prove he is baptized by the Lord's holy Spirit. the gift of tongues is really a lesser gift, if you want it that's fine but the best gift is prophecy. the thing with that is, while that is the best gift, when you have it, you become despised. of course Paul ultimately says that even if we have all these gifts and don't have Love then we are nothing. Also these gifts are for infant Christians because they display God's power in a tangable way but Paul says that they will cease eventually when Christ is formed in us, when that happens the very Life of Christ will flow out of us so we won't need such gifts to convince us of God's power.

We all need to be exposed to these gifts in some measure so we can have an idea of the scope of God's power, if you speak in tongues and i don't, i can't say that i don't need you because we are all the body of Christ and each part needs each other part. this is because the gifts are for ALL our benefit. God will give you whatever gifts He wants to for His work through you, i pray God have His will done in you and through you bro. AMEN.

Hi hmmhmm,

Simply put, if you have not yet been baptised in the Holy Spirit, you are in for a nice suprise. Every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father of lights.

I know that the same faith that you were given to believe on the Lord Jesus, is the same faith that will lead you into 'the streams of living water' that the Father longs to give you.

The Holy Spirit is God the Spirit and He has many gifts, that are for the upbuilding of the body of Christ, that is you and I.

If you are confused about tongues, don't worry about it, I was as well. I remember sitting outside this room while all my friends who have very tactfully excluded me from such a meeting, I felt the power, some years later I was introduced to that wonderful world of the Spirit. I am glad that I did not really know too much, for what can really prepare you for what too most is indescribable...that is the presense of God.

Well, I hope that this thread doesn't go the usual way of controversy and stays on the suprise and joy that is in the Lord, to those who receive what the Father longs to give us.

In Christ,
Aeryck

Basically, I agree with IRON. You don't have to show anything to prove you are baptized by the Holy Spirit. It is from God for God.

To answer your question about those who were baptized by the Holy Spirit that did not speak in tongues here are names:

John Wesley

Charles Finney

D L Moody

R A Torrey

J Wilbur Chapman

Evan Roberts

A B Earle

A T Pierson

Duncan Campbell

Leonard Ravehnill

John R Rice

J Edwin Orr

These never had a documented experience but obviously were obviously filled with the Spirit of God:

Billy Sunday

Charles Spurgeon

I have documented in a small collection, many quotes from giants of the faith dealing with this particular subject:

http://www.dyingthief.com/The_Holy_Ghost_and_the_Revival_He_Brings.doc

dear friend,

Speaking in tounges is a gift as anything else. there are many gifts that God gives, as you know a gift is not earned -- smoking or not smoking will not usually dtermine God's genorosity. Let me say however, those type of things pale in signifigance to the indwelling Spirit and will usually get dropped off as excess and of no use. There are many gifts besides speaking in tounges, this you can find in cor. 12 and 13. God can give you any gift he wants you to have when he wants you to have it--there are purposes for all the gifts.
As far as speaking in tounges -- many miss the more importatnt aspect of speaking in the spirit, walking in the spirit, living in the spirit, etc in eph. 6 paul says, let all prayer be in the spirit -- do you pray in the spirit? does you pastor preach in the spirit? basicly, this means don't do it reliougsly but in the spirit. many say speaking in tounges is speaking in the spirit, don't get me wrong I speak in tounges but I would rather speak like paul five words in the spirit in my own language -- it helps others. speaking in tounges has its place -- don't doubt it, but if you don't speak in tounges right now or ever it does not mean you are not filled w/ the holy spirit. Take a room, you say it's filled w/ chairs? then you put a lot of people in, now it's filled w/ people, then you fill it w/ air, then you fill it w/ music -- you get the point? the christian is never full but always being filled, isn't the kingdom of God exciting?!
check out col 2 6-9

I know you have seen God move in your life and continualy see the kingdom of God all around you take heart you are living john 3 3 cause no one can see it and understand unless he's been born again.

Peace my friend, I know this is long winded and hard to follow but be careful about becoming imbalanced either way about tounges or anything of God just walk w/ him and enjoy him and others -- sometimes they're fun to watch :-D

Basically, I agree with IRON. You don't have to show anything to prove you are baptized by the Holy Spirit. It is from God for God.

Ofcourse, there would be a vast improvement in one's ability to worship God. Streams of living water pouring out of one's innermost being is bound to cause one to have certain pleasurable experiences and make certain pleasurable noises.
One might even collapse on the ground, or begin crying with joyful release or laughing a little to excitedly at discovering what it means to worship the Lord in the Spirit. It is true though that some take longer to open up to the Lord and so there might be a very tiny trickle of living water, but with some good teaching in the Scriptures, and anointed message or two, or maybe more one might start to open up in the Spirit to God...maybe not, I guess we are all so different when it comes to how we respond to the presense of the Lord. I prayed in tongues and it was as the Spirit gave me utterance, I sort of ran out of my own mental prayers and then got a whole new way of praying, or should I say fellowshipping with the Father and the Son...

His servant,
Aeryck

Don't let anyone tell you that when you receive the holy Spirit you don't have to speak in tongues.

You certainly do not have to speak in tongues, but when you receive the holy Spirit you will speak in tongues.

Please prove this through scripture?

I've heard many say to justify themselves that love is the evidence, or joy etc.., these can be results of any good thing, even the world experinces joy, love, peace. But the speaking of an unknown tongue eludes those who THINK they have the truth. But because they SAY they see, their sin remaineth, I am talking about Christians.

This is why I dont attend a pentocostal church anymore. They will rather have experience over any of the fruits of the spririt.

I have met tons of people who "speak" in tongues, and have absolutely no love, and are more deeply in sin and false teaching than people who dont.(I am not speaking about all people who speak in tongues).

Please, dont make this poor soul think that he has to speak in tongue in order to be baptized in the holy spirit. I have fallen into this deception, and all it did was result in me making weird noises at an altar, while everyone else was falling all around me. This, I have come to find out, is total blasphemy.

I am not saying that people who speak in tongues are bad, but when you make that a priority for being baptized, this falls in deception.

god bless

hw,

I was trying to answer the question of who claimed to have the baptism of the Holy Ghost who did not speak in tongues. I suppose that this statement goes against what you believe.

I respect your stand, but let me make some statements.

I do not speak in tongues, and therefore I don't claim to know what the actual experience is. As far as John R Rice goes, he believed that all the gifts were for today, but believed that tongues were foreign languages. I am not sold on either stand to be honest.

But going along with your line of thinking, you stated that if one had not spoken in tongues, they could not be authoritative on tongues. True statement. But I submit this, if you have not received a baptism of the Holy Ghost without tongues, how can you be authoritative to say it cannot happen. Especially taking into consideration the list of great men of God I submitted before.

Jesus did not speak in tongues, neither did John Baptist. So I am not discounting your experience, just asking that you not discount mine and the great men of God who have not spoken in tongues.

I will ask you this, please answer if you get a chance. Was the complete list of men I gave void of anyone who was truly baptized with the Holy Ghost?

ive studied the bible... ive listend to sermons, ive talked to people, ive prayed to god. i have come to the conclusion that i havent had the baptism of the holy ghost, i know i was born again and recived the holy ghost, i felt it i knew it when it happend, surley the baptism will be an experience like this i belive, what i meen is if one has had the baptism they would know.
and i do think you can be filled whit the holy spirit and not speak in tounges, if i recive this gift from god ill accept it and praise him,
if not i will praise him anyway. The thing that disturbs me the most i must say is that i know of people that live in sin and claim to have this gift and the baptism, now i know its a gift, its nothing we can earn by works.
but still i have this dubts about some people....

But going along with your line of thinking, you stated that if one had not spoken in tongues, they could not be authoritative on tongues. True statement. But I submit this, if you have not received a baptism of the Holy Ghost without tongues, how can you be authoritative to say it cannot happen. Especially taking into consideration the list of great men of God I submitted before.

well i think im right in that the spirit is a gift thats free, its given, now i want to recive it... some get it almost instant..and others have waited a long time. I trust god to know the perfect time for me for this batism, in my mind any time would be perfect but i trust in him, i long for this baptism... i just get confused when i see people talk in tounges and next day are friends to this world smoking and hanging out for fun at bars, saying they cant judgeanyone for drinking a beer. this just seem to me be so wrong there is no words for it...

hmmhmm wrote:
i just get confused when i see people talk in tounges and next day are friends to this world smoking and hanging out for fun at bars, saying they cant judgeanyone for drinking a beer. this just seem to me be so wrong there is no words for it...

Alot of ahteists use this arguement to justify their atheism. My advice would be to pass by those that cause you to stumble and consider those have had the experience that are [b]balanced[/b]. People like Wilkerson, Katz, Poonen, Verwer, etc to name but a few. My experience is that many fake this, as many fake conversion.

I just want to make a quick statement here. A person may "speak in tongues", according to the modern sense, and be either sinful or holy. Just because a person speaks in tongues does not mean that they are holy for it does not take a holy person to say "habadahabada". Also, if a person speaks in tongues and they are immoral it does not mean that speaking in tongues is not a gift of the Spirit. To understand whether or not such a thing is a Biblical practice we need only look to the Bible.
I do not think that saying "habada habada" is speaking in tongues and it is completly irrelevant who has thought that it was speaking in tongues and even less relevant who has partook of the practice.
In order to understand what "speaking in tongues" was we simply look at what the word tongues means. The word tongues means "the tongue; by implication, a language" Strong's Dictionary
If the whole Christian world were to stand up and start saying "habada habada" yet I could not believe that the tongues in the Bible was anything but a regular language that was supernaturally imparted to certain individuals for the sake of spreading the Gospel.

RandyJ wrote:
I do not think that saying "habada habada" is speaking in tongues and it is completly irrelevant who has thought that it was speaking in tongues and even less relevant who has partook of the practice.

You don't have to believe in the "gift of tongues (glossalalea)", as taught in modern Pentacostal/Charismatic circles, but neither does that render it false. To minimise glossalalea to "habada habada", is as naive as an atheist accusing a Christian of being iresponsable for trusting in "Christ alone" for salvation. After all, isn't it irresponsable to expect Christ to "pay the price" for "our sins"? My pointing to the people that I did, is because they are people who have proven their integrity and are also people who exersize the gift of glossalalea, because the poster's experience of people who "spoke in tongues" was that most of them lacked in moral interity. I

David Pawson defines glossalalea as the ability to learn to speak in an unkown language in "seconds flat", where some protestant theologians try to reduce it by claiming it to mean the ability to learn a new language in weeks instead of years. That would not be a "gift" but a "natural ability". Now whether or not you agree with the guy, the fact is, we [b]cannot definitely prove either stance[/b]. We who claim to have the gift, claim to have an experience, which is not at the mercy of an arguement. You may not believe in the gift being for today, but you cannot categorically deny its exeistance, just as an atheist betrays his "agnosticism" by admiting the fact that he isn't privy to "ultimate knowledge".

I like how Todd Friel (who by the way is conservative, theologically) put it, "I believe that the gift oftongues is the ability to speak in languages, but at the end of the day, that's just my opinion. I may be wrong. You may be wrong. It really doesn't matter that much."

I agree with Friel's comment. I think that way of thinking should be applied to both schools of thought on the subject by more people.

bro Randy

Well said. By the way Jesus did speak in tongues."And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46

i don't think that this means Christ spoke in tongues. what He said was said in aramaic (i believe) and for whatever reason those words were preserved in that tongue while the others were written down in greek. i suppose because we read the scriptures in english we subconsciously assume that they spoke in english when they in fact spoke in Aramaic. nowhere in scripture that i'm aware of did Christ speak in any other tongue but aramaic, which is not to say that He couldn't but it was not necessary until after He left and sent back Holy Spirit to enable men to speak in tongues.

David Pawson defines glossalalea as the ability to learn to speak in an unkown language in "seconds flat"

If that is what a person means when he says tongues then I will agree. I will not, however, disagree with the suggestion that the gift of tongues may be the ability to learn a language in weeks.

As for the comment on whether Christ spoke in tongues on the cross, I will simply yield to the point for though He did speak in a tongue yet it may not have been tongues.

Well I thought about the argument that Jesus and John the Baptist did not speak in tongues.
So far I know of speaking in tongues only happened after Christ's death and ressurection, anybody ever seen this?

As for the "Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani"..
An explanation I heard (on a biblecamp) why this was in Aramaic was because this was the language who was spoken in the houses. So this should also have been the language Jesus spoke in his childhood and possible in every day life.

It seems that people who where born in a country and emigrate to another country and master the (2nd) language very well seem to use their own language to express pain or great distress even if they already lived in that other country for years and years. So this also .happens when you speak more then one language

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but atleast I know that I will shout 'auw' if someone pinches me. ;)

RandyJ wrote:
If that is what a person means when he says tongues then I will agree.

Someone once asked me if I spake in tongues. I said, "Not as much as I used to." He then asked, "Is it a real language or just babble?" I replied, "I don't know. I've never tried to translate it."

While I agree that their is much abuse of this spiritual gift (ie, "gift of grace", or charismata, as opposed to "natural ability"), I think that we must tread carefully on both sides, as if the Charismatics are right, and this is part of what Paul refered to as "praying in the Spirit, then why deny someone something that will build up the inner man? Only hope more to "prophecy" that we may build others up also.

Why do people think that the Gift of tongues is the only one that we can control?

If one speeks in tongues on purpose of makes an effort to, it is not authentic.

hw,

We obviously disagree on the initial evidence, so let me ask you this way. If you are right, and tongues is the initial evidence, what are you saying happened to me the day I was not truly baptized by the Holy Ghost?

Here is a synopsis of the experience. I prayed for quite some time for the fire of God, spending time alone praying, looking in the Word, feeling broken for weeks and weeks. The day my experience happened, I fell down on my knees twice with tears, and the third time I felt the Spirit of God on me, I screamed so loud I went hoarse, and felt like painless electricity was going through my body.

I was told I needed to pray for tongues, which I did. I read a book on how to speak in tongues, and even attempted to do so, and did not feel edified. During a prayer time in my study, I asked God to show me which gift was His to me, and so I pointed to a random verse in Scripture to get a number to match up with the list of the gifts of the Spirit in 1 Cor 12. My finger fell on verse 31 on a random book and chapter in the Scriptures, which I matched to 1 Cor 12:31-

"But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way."

Again, from your stance, what happened to me?

hmmhmm wrote:
well i think im right in that the spirit is a gift thats free, its given, now i want to recive it... some get it almost instant..and others have waited a long time. I trust god to know the perfect time for me for this batism, in my mind any time would be perfect but i trust in him, i long for this baptism... i just get confused when i see people talk in tounges and next day are friends to this world smoking and hanging out for fun at bars, saying they cant judgeanyone for drinking a beer. this just seem to me be so wrong there is no words for it...

My friend,

I understand.
many things there are that stumble but remember to hold to that, that is good. We all have oppurtuity many times in our lives to stumble at the chief cornerstone. As I said before, Prov 11:1 a false balance is an abomination to the LORD.
Many times I see the kids down the street doing things that I would not want my kids to do, it is my responsibility to speak to their parents and determine with them to help be an example as well I hope that my kids would be an example.
Give your friends to the LORD and determine to let HIM deal with them in the way that will magnify HIM in their lives.
As for you, the LORD has "allowed you to see this" and question, which is quite natural-now don't get imbalanced and judge but rather go back to the LORD with what he has "shown you in the Spirit"--perhaps he wants you to pray for these folks. Which brings a good point which being tounges. Yes God has placed a desire to speak in Tounges? Good! Do well with what he has givin you concerning tounges, namely he has "shown you by his Spirit" some people that speak in tounges and their lifestyle is not so good? Why did God show you this? Surely not to embitter you. Complete this.
Shared this in humility because I have had to chew tough meat also--but it's very nourishing.
Peace

1 Corinthians 12:10-11 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

1Cr 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue pray that he may interpret.

This seems to be delima, speak then pray with the mind that you might speak with understanding.

1Cr 14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. :-?

My spirit, what is that? My spirit is now the Spirit of Christ. My spirit is nonexistent. My soul can pray that the mind will and emotions of a human being, it now is taught by the Holy Spirit and The Holy Spirit only uses tongues to teach others who Christ is and what He is saying. All the gifts of the Spirit are operated in this realm.

John 16:7-15 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

All the gifts of the Spirit are for one thing and one thing only teach us who the Christ that has been born again in us and praying or speaking in an unknown tongue is not in the Holy Spirit's teachings. When the Holy Spirit speaks to us He Speaks to our minds with understanding and enlightenment of who Christ is. Besides Tongues are for the unbeliever anyhow, I not knowing Navaho, speak by the power of the Holy Spirit and a Navaho Indian understands the Gospel by this language from the Holy Spirit through me to him.

Where does it say to pray in an unknown tongue, I thought Jesus said Pray in this way, "Our Father who art in Heaven," and the rest does not say shut your mind off and speak with lips that make no sense and believe that God is hearing us. Not. If we don't know what to pray just say so and the Holy Spirit will pray for us in sounds so deep to the Father that only the Father knows what to answer.

In Christ: Phillip

One other Question Steve:

You say God wakes you up to pray for someone that he brought to your mind. Why would God do that? I can think of only one reason. That would be to build up your faith in answering the prayer for the other person, but for you to gain faith you would have to know what to pray so you could see the answer to build up your faith.

Praying in an unknown tongue would be fruitless. If you don't know what to pray for the person, why don't you ask the Holy Spirit, if He went to the trouble to wake you up for a specific prayer for someone else, I am sure He would give you the answer of what to pray. All the gifts are for the upbuilding of the body of Christ, and anything unknown would not be to that effect. Us speaking in an unknown tongue, that is a heavenly language is just to build up our own ego and we can prove it by doing the deed, then in the doing show all our peers how spiritual we are, you see we are just like you. I can speak in an unknown tongue, __*%$#$%&()()_+()(&^$^&^%*((_)_*)(&^^^%$&^(*_+__)(*&* sorry I don't have an interpreter. Or: glwssa glossa gloce-sah' Interpretation: of uncertain affinity; the tongue; by implication, a language (specially, one naturally unacquired):--tongue.
Understand? One is worthless and one is knowledge of the Word of God for upbuilding the Body of Christ to truth. One us unknown, One is Greek interpreted.

In Christ: Phillip

Logic wrote:
Why do people think that the Gift of tongues is the only one that we can control?

If one speeks in tongues on purpose of makes an effort to, it is not authentic.

Are you saying that "prophecy" (which most conservatives interperate as "annointed preaching", which I agree with) is out of our control? True, the "annointed" part of our preaching is out of our control, but the preaching isn't. In the same way, the "utterance" is out of our control, but the "proclaimation of that utterance" is not.

letsgetbusy wrote:
We obviously disagree on the initial evidence, so let me ask you this way. If you are right, and tongues is the initial evidence, what are you saying happened to me the day I was not truly baptized by the Holy Ghost?

While I realise that you have poste this to someone specific, about a specific issue, I'm drawing on this to highlight something, it is not necessary to believe that "glossalalea" is [b]the[/b] initial evidence. But scripture seems o imply that the "evidence" come out of the mouth. Why, I hear you ask? Because, "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh".

I wonder what would have happened if the translators of the KJV just translated "glossa gloce-sah'" into "a language". That would have solved this whole dispute right off the bat.

Hmmmmmmm :-)

RandyJ wrote:
I wonder what would have happened if the translators of the KJV just translated "glossa gloce-sah'" into "a language". That would have solved this whole dispute right off the bat.

Hmmmmmmm :-)

No...I don't think it would, because tongues and language is the same thhing, but "gift of grace" and "natural ability" are not. 1 Cor 12 deals with "charismata" or "gifts of grace".

if tounges is the evidence, then al those men in the beginning of the thread werent filled whit the spirit? how come they did so much work for god whitout being filled or baptised and some others that do speak in tounges dont do sutch works as they did? i meen if you say the evidence of being baptised is tounges, and moody and ravenhill and those other dident speak in tounges, then they werent baptised? or what are you saying???

I alwys thought that Ravenhill did speak in tongues? I know that he didn't discount the gift. The point of this is that Baptism in the Spiit is evidenced from the mouth. Finney had trouble staying quiet when he received the Spirit, for example, and was afraid of waking those in his house, as it was late at light.

Does this mean that the utterance has to be tongues? Of course not. Oftetimes it may be the return of a smile that has long been vacant. Other times it may be sobbing, as tears springing from dried out tear ducts. My point is that it may be tongues, but it doesn't have to be.

Any serious Pentacostal/Charismatic of a more theological bend, who aren't caught up in prosperity and third wave pot holes support this. I have personally known many who have been filled with te Spirit who never spake in tongues. Oftentimes they were left to feel like "spiritual lepers" because they didn't display the kind of "initial evidence" that is socially acceptable.

CJaKfOrEsT wrote:

Logic wrote:
Why do people think that the Gift of tongues is the only one that we can control?

If one speeks in tongues on purpose of makes an effort to, it is not authentic.

Are you saying that "prophecy" (which most conservatives interperate as "annointed preaching", which I agree with) is out of our control? True, the "annointed" part of our preaching is out of our control, but the preaching isn't. In the same way, the "utterance" is out of our control, but the "proclaimation of that utterance" is not.

prophecy which is equal to the [b]Gift of tongues[/b] would be the fortelling of futer events.

It is almost like the Gift of Wisdom, but not personal, for the Gift of Wisdom is to a person and Gift of prophecy is to the world or the people in wich you are addressing.

My friend who has prophesied many things which has come to pass in his ministry had been born of the Spirit and not from his own effort.

He could not have know the future and it's events like he fortold while prophesying.

So that Gift of tongues is not of our own control or effort.

Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Joh 3:8
Verse 8. The wind bloweth, &c. Nicodemus had objected to the doctrine because he did not understand how it could be. Jesus shows him that he ought not to reject it on that account, for he constantly believed things quite as difficult. It might appear incomprehensible, but it was to be judged of by its effects. As in this case of the wind, the effects were seen, the sound was heard, important changes were produced by it, trees and clouds were moved, yet the wind is not seen, nor do we know whence it comes, nor by what laws it is governed; so it is with the operations of the Spirit. We see the changes produced, Men just now sinful become holy; the thoughtless become serious; the licentious become pure; the vicious, moral; the moral, religious; the prayerless, prayerful; the rebellious and obstinate, meek, and mild, and gentle. When we see such changes, we ought no more to doubt that they are produced by some cause--by some mighty agent, than when we see the trees moved, or the waters of the ocean piled on heaps, or feel the cooling effects of a summer's breeze. In those cases we attribute it to the wind, though we see it not, and though we do not understand its operations. We may learn, hence,

In Christ: Phillip

The only disagreement as far as I can tell is whether Tounges is initial evidance.
To continue on in this vein Pro or Con is fruitless. (Hmmmm had some valid questions)in his first post and as I travel this site I see many of these posters looking to argue their understanding and/or experiance. Lets help each other where we can and go on to the next discussion. If something doesn't give life to the hearers it is less than led. Anybody getting fed here with all this back and forth?
Without Faith it is impossible to please GOD.
;-)

Stever wrote:

I mainly use tongues as an individual prayer language

The Holy Spirit uses us and gives us the utterance.

If you are the one initiating the tongues by the effoert of your own will, it is just like me pretending to speek in a nother langage. This is futile.
Any body can talk like in a nother language, I was at age 10 with out the Spirit.

The gift of tongues is received at the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.

Both Clarkforest and Logic seem to be opposed to all forms of this gift.

Like a cup of water filled to the brim with water and you put an ice cube in it & then it over flows.

My friend says he was praying in tonguse one day and then the gift lifted and he wanted to keep praying in tonges, so he did. The God said to him, "STOP THAT".

He started doing it out of his flesh, from his own effort or will.

When (the date and time) exactly did each of you receive this baptism of Fire, The Baptism of the Holy Ghost?

What were the circumstances of this baptism? Where did it take place, who was there, etc.

Power to lead a holy life, Power to understand His Word, Power to pray with understanding, Power to witness, Power to ect....

Since neither of you have received the gift of tongues, what other gifts have you received from this baptism, if you have received it?

The gift of Faith, word of wisdom, divine healing.

Stever wrote:
Both Clarkforest and Logic seem to be opposed to all forms of this gift.

I won't go into as much detail as I did in the PM, but to put it on record, [b]reread my posts[/b] and see f you still think I'm "oposed to [b]all forms[/b] of this gift".

:-)