5 Points Against (Inappropriate Dressing) edit

I appreciate your zeal brother, and someday maybe the Lord will grant me the opportunity to minister along side you in a public forum.

I personally like to open up messages with question answer sessions. An example would be to ask what is the sin of Sodom? I might in this setting ask that question several times put several different ways. Then I'd answer that question from Eze. the sin of Sodom is (eze 16:49).... I would read it and allow for the Holy Spirit to work on thier minds and consciences, I would than ask questions with in questions, what is pride, what is fullness of bread, etc... and share scripture to answer each question. After I was done plowing the ground I would give them Jesus, a simple appeal of the mercy of God available to thoughs who would follow Him, maybe explain what that means, and believe the Lord to have signs and wonders following according to His word.

I found myself pointing the finger, as it were, in my early days on the streets and continuely had troubles that I brought upon myself. Than the Lord changed me and I started to preach sermons instead shouting one liners, I could take thoughs same sermons and present them in churches, now when trouble came my way I knew that it was purely for the Words sake that it came and I had peace and joy in the midst of all that mess, and it was latter that I would hear reports from others who were there how they observed the manifest joy of the Lord and how that affected them. Just treasures I keep close to my heart as I've started to take Jesus back to the streets in these last days, Pray ye' to the Lord of the Harvest.....

I think if you are going to preach on modesty, you should stay away from more legalistic definitions which you are going to have a hard time persuading our culture in. Instead, attack the spirit behind much of the immodest clothing.

And frankly, preaching against bikini's is not Biblical. If the prophet Isaiah, who was the father of at least 3 children, could roam around buck naked for a few years (Isaiah 20), then frankly you are going to have a hard time making such a case on Biblical grounds. Remember, past generations of Christians found it a sin to wear anything in public that didn't come down to your wrists and ankles. After all, such was showing too much flesh!

Frankly, I think there are some people, like my fiance, who have such a modest spirit about them that they could wear a 2 piece bikini to the beach and be in the perfect will of God in doing such. Though my fiance would never be caught dead in one doesn't change the fact that I believe she could. For even if she were, she would not be looking to reveal but to conceal just the same as if she were wearing a one piece.

Maybe I missed something but I don’t quite get the point of the sermon outline.

The message I think should be that to dress immodestly is unloving behaviour towards others.

Jesus said some interesting things about modesty:
Matthew 5: 28 I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust in his eye has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Matthew 18: 7 How terrible it will be for anyone who causes others to sin. Temptation to do wrong is inevitable, but how terrible it will be for the person who does the tempting.

The last thing anyone should want to do is to tempt another person to sin. So the last thing a young lady should want to do is to tempt a young man to lust after her because of the way she is dressed, in her revealing clothes.

The rule of god's love is: love your neighbour as yourself.

When females dress immodestly, they break that rule, because they tempt men to lust.

Tempting people to sin is the height of evil. Therefore, women should dress modestly, and men should teach women the truth about male sexuality so that the women agree that they would never want to tempt a man to lust by the way they dress. Men need to teach women to dress modestly, and the men need to teach women WHY it is important for them to dress modeslty - that to dress immodestly is to dress without an attitude of love towards one's neighbour.

The last thing anyone should want to do is to tempt another person to sin.

God bless,

Brian

I started the open air preaching with my 5 Point Sermon Against Bikinis.

1. The Rear End……. [and other body parts]

I beg to challenge this view point. The body is made by God, and all its parts are a glorious wonder of his handiwork. To imply that a person’s body is evil is running on dangerous territory. Yet, I do not wish to dismiss the issue you bring forth: about the evils of bikinis (or any other kind of suggestive attire).

Perhaps one must consider WHY bikinis are worn in the first place. It is a trend, and people tend to follow trends. What woman wants to walk on the beach with a 1920’s bathing suit! (when she’s the only one) These days people, especially young adolescents can’t bear the thought of being a “reject” among their significant others – their peers. Their sense of worth is tied up in their body image. That’s just the way it is in our society. It’s sad, but true.

Now the Amish may have licked the problem with their old-fashioned dress code, but I highly suspect that their young ladies have discovered all kinds of creative ways to be suggestive to males.

In my youth, I didn’t crave boys, nor was my identity tied up in their view of me. Maybe it was because of my relationship with my father. While my peers were on the beach, I was in the hay fields with my dad. We worked together. I felt important to him. But it wasn’t my attire that he cared about. It was my willingness to spend a lot of time with him, helping with the farm work. I thought he was awesome.

Today, not many young ladies have a chance to get so close to their fathers. In fact, there are many absentee fathers. We may have an entire culture of father-deprived ladies who seek to have the emptiness filled in wrong ways.

Another consideration: From the age of two socialization is the prized goal. You have to fit in. Should we really be surprised when our youth and adults continue pursuing this goal? Even our churches follow after this belief: We must look attractive, be appealing…. Therefore, do we really have a right to speak against the pagan world? That would be a double standard.

"If you don't mind guys seeing those parts of your body then there is something wrong with you.

Suggestive exposure of flesh is common place. I just looked at a section of the newspaper, and it’s all over.

During the days of the witch-hunts, attractive young girls were considered witches and put to death. The real problem was the clergy who found them a temptation, and never wished to admit they had a bad “eye”. So they blamed the females.

It’s time to stop blaming females for what may be very much a male problem. It takes males to reinforce the problem.

SOLUTIONS:

A good solution would be for men to wear foggy glasses. Jesus suggested removing the eye altogether if it causes one to sin. (Note: the eye, not the object ex, female was the cause of sin) In other words, we are all to take responsibility for our own tendencies to fall into temptation

When our eyes are on him, and we are dead (blind) to the attractions of this world, we are free to love – not the lustful way, but the right way – Christ’s way.

This leads us to the question: How can we help our insecure, fearful fellow citizens find a sense of worth in something other than their body image? How can we help them know the love of the heavenly Father?

If we fail to do that, then we really can’t say much when they chose faulty means to satisfy their unmet needs – whether that be bikinis or other means.

Diane

if man or woman dress in a way that people look at that person in a lustful way, then that person is a tool of the devil , arent they?

I have read the Acts of the Apostles 10 times in the last month and I just don't see it.

We were at the park Sunday afternoon and one of the helpers was telling a man that he needed Jesus Christ or he was going to hell. She was doing her best to reach this young man and soon we all realized that the young man had almost no idea what she was talking about. He had never had any real experience with religion at all. He believed in a 'higher power' but that was it. He tried to commit suicide with a gun under his chin. The gun misfired. One of the guys asked him if he thought about God at that moment, he said, No. What did you think about? "I was speechless", he replied.

I am starting to feel like sometimes we try to push too hard with too much for the sake of time, when an explaination of what is being said, would be much more beneficial. Lowering the tone and allowing the Spirit to lead us to explain to the folks so that God can take those words and make it revelation to their mind and hearts. This takes 'time'. A heavy down-pour just runs off the hardened land. A bomb does speedily what a shovel could do more precisely if there were more 'time'.

I realized that folk need an explaination of what God's word says so that it is clear to them what He requires of them. Sound bite answers are limited in their effectiveness, because the people need a good understanding of what is being said. This takes some time. Maybe not hours, but it does take some time.

Look at Stephens messages in Acts. That message took like a whole chapter or more. It was concise, but it brought tremendous understanding. The people could not resist the wisdom. There is much more to this than just getting up with that message, but I think we can glean something from Stephens method.

God is constantly checking me on my delivery methods in teaching, preaching, and writing. I think this is as important as our content. It is what James calls the wisdom that comes down from above. I need to do this and God is leading me constantly to that end. I am not there, but I am trying to get there. It don't mean I'm not sincere or even hearing from the Lord or 'anointed' as its said. It is a constant refining towards a more Christ like delivery of God's words. God's word in God's way.

This is very true that it is easy to get a reaction, I could out on the street and offend people very easily and provoke them, this is not the true persection that the early church recieved, but rather recieved it under preaching the simple message of the cross, not naming sins in public and other scenario's of depraved lifes. I have read the Acts of the Apostles 10 times in the last month and I just don't see it.

In 1 Corinthians, the apostle Paul said it was the preaching of the cross that offended, not the super-colorful use of language to describe sins. One's ability to use adjectives never won anybody.

If I was at that lake with my friends I'd definately be dropping the don't worry not all Christians are like that line. Sorry.

Hello...

I heard someone once say, "[i]You don't have to teach sinners about tithing[/i]." Regardless of whether or not you believe in a concept of tithing, the point it quite clear -- we don't have to waste our time teaching precepts that will be rejected (or simply misunderstood) by unbelievers.

Please don't get me wrong -- I totally agree with the [i]Hell's Best Kept Secret[/i] message by Ray Comfort. Sinners need to be aware that they are sinners. But is a message on "the dangers of indecent clothing" necessary to people that are quite satified with such clothing? Besides, the greatest sin in this world is the fact that the people of Earth have forgotten their Creator. We were created to fellowship with God. Free will was given so that we could choose Him despite all of the lusts and desires of this world. Yet now, people are completely satisfied without Him -- even to the point of questioning His very existence.

There was a preacher that came to our campus a couple of years ago. He began preaching at a highly trafficked place on campus (between the Student Union Building w/cafeteria and the library). Huge crowds gathered to listen. Unfortunately, the opportunity was (in my opinion) squandered. This man publicly called many of the young women in the crowd very offensive names (vulgar synonyms of 'prostitutes'). When he saw men with hair that he felt was in need of a trim, or he saw men wearing earrings, he labeled them as being the same as "homosexuals" and "sodomites." Sadly, he even publicly slurred some believers for such "sins" as wearing sunglasses or baseball caps. He constantly preached for several days against the evils of freemasonry, communism, roman catholicism, birth control pills, "modern" dress, as well as a few specific vulgar topics that I don't feel that I should type.

Occasionally, this man did say some very good things. But they were constantly mingled with his attempts to publicly offend the listeners. For instance, he shared his testimony (which was wonderful). But then, he would turn around and publicly mock sinners, half-hearted believers and true believers alike. He condemned me as a "heretic" for owning an NIV translation of the Bible. He condemned a friend for being a member of the University baseball team (on scholarship). Why did he do this? Perhaps he wanted to use this as a "gimmick" that would attract passerbys. Perhaps he did this for the "martyr" effect (he was openly ridiculed, mocked and threatened with arrest). Or perhaps he felt that what he was saying was needed in a public forum.

As a result of some things he said, this man was almost attacked by some of the listeners. He was asked to move about 25 yards to the designated "free speech" area (a much more visible location), but he refused. After being threatened with arrest by the University Police Department, he finally moved. He continued to preach for several days. Even though he condemned our Chi Alpha Christian Fellowship organization as a group of heretics (since he affiliated us with a belief in tongues), he thanked us in his newsletter for coming to his defense when he was threatened with arrest (and when an offended person threatened him with a brick). I asked him why he didn't ask for a permit or directions for the designated "free speech" areas on campus, and he said that he was simply another John Bunyan (refusing to cooperate with the desires of heathen governments).

I truly believe in street preaching. But sometimes, I call into question the methods of some street preachers. The opportunity to preach in a public arena is wonderful. But should we spend our time and words on doctrinal persuasion and offensive remarks? If a person wants to truly "offend," then why not simply preach the cross of Christ? It is completely offensive -- but it is also the power of God unto salvation!

May God raise up fellow preachers that are bold enough to preach to the highways and byways like brother Jesse. And may God fill each of them with the words to speak that will bring their listeners to Christ!

:-)

Another interesting subject....

I'll shoot straight here with you all...

My mother in-law said just the other day if you go to a beach or beach water park the women leave nothing to imagine!

She's right!! Most of the women are just plain naked! SODOM!!

I do like what Jesse said earlier that its just fancy underwear....I like what he said because I have preached it from my pulpit in church. We need to call it what it is!! Like Ravenhill said we use nicer words to cover it up...

The problem isnt with the sinners.... its with those who call themselves christian. Ravenhill said in his interview "you can't preach holiness these days, you cant preach modesty".

Now preaching to sinners on the street about bikinis is for me creating a bunch of "DONT'S". Get them saved and then disciple them! Teach them modesty.

"All is vanity" I wish preachers would preach it from the pulpits! We need to call it what it is!

There, I said my peace

;-) ;-)

I think the main point is that in street preaching we have to rember who we are preaching to. This is what I mean, Jesus had hard rebukes for the religious community of His time, The jews. Occassionally He happened across a gentile and there were several ways He handled those situations, rember though that those gentiles sought the Lord out. Paul on the other hand reasoned with the greeks as well as the unbelievers with persuasive arguements, much like a lawyer does in court cases before a jury. Jesus came to judge the world ....but how did He judge? He healed the lame, cast out demons, opened blind eyes, proclaimed the acceptable year of the Lord, presented the gospel. Probably had about 6 hours of prayer to one sermon, and than it was time to minister to the needs of the hearers. Don't become a carbon copy of Ray Comfort. And at all times learn to show your genuine love and concern for those you preach to, as if they were your very own children.

Brent wrote:

Now preaching to sinners on the street about bikinis is for me creating a bunch of "DONT'S". Get them saved and then disciple them! Teach them modesty.

Brother Greg...maybe you missed this in my post? I do agree with you 100%!!

This deserves to be re-read a couple of dozens of times. Very well said Greg.

Brother I agree this needs to be preached to Christians but why are we trying to preach it to heathen? they don't know any better its just a fruit of their depravity. All your quotes and what Raven hill is saying is towards the church! for the church not to act like the world. We need to preach CHRIST to people, to present Him Crucified, there is no way for people to realize the way they are living is wrong until they see the Cross and what Jesus did for them. Again show me anywhere were people's paticular sin is pushed in their face boldy! that is not how the apostles or Christ Himself preached. But that does not mean they did not have earnestness. But a strange thing I have seen under the sun, preaching on hell without tears, preaching judgement on sin, and the sickness of sin without tears.

If you are not weeping and wailing over the sins of the people and the depravity and wickedness of the times, in my opinion you have no right to preach against them. How many hours have you spent in your prayer closet weeping over the conditions of these poor girls who in their lack of self worth have unwittingly become co-workers of Satan? The compassion and love of the Holy Spirit and the same compassion Jesus had when he weeped over Jerusalem should come through unmistakably in your voice as you preach, even when preaching against sin, judgement, hell, or wrath.

Although we should be ready preach at any moment, we should also shut ourselves up with the Lord and seek after Him as to what He wants us to say and the word He wants spoken. I would seriously wonder if the Lord told me go to the beach and preach against bikini's - here are five points. I would wonder if it was the Lord I was listening to or someone else.

I am not against hard preaching, preaching judgment and wrath, railing against sin and hell fire preaching, in fact, I have and will continue to preach that way when instructed to by the Lord, but only when clearly instructed to by the Lord after hours of prayers and tears and weeping and wailing.

Brother Robert wrote a post a couple of weeks back about purity in preaching and keeping our tounges free from the fires of hell. I think it would do us all well to give that post another read.

Hi this is Brian's wife Tracey,

I was nursing and we (along with many health professionals) say "treat the cause not just the symptoms".

Here we have symptoms - women dressing in-appropriately. My thoughts were that maybe we need to address the underlying need for a saviour. He is the one who leads us into all truth regarding even modesty.

Just a quick thought...

BTW 10 out or 10 for your bravery (the person who started this thread) in going out to the streets and preaching! I admire that you self sacrifice in that way. May God keep leading us and growing us to see exactly what words he wants us to be preaching.

Every blessing,
Tracey =)

One thing "y'all" should keep in mind. We were at this lake in Mineola, Texas - THE BIBLE BELT.

The MAJORITY (and I do not exaggerate) of this crowd were 'professing' Christians.
The practically naked girl that stole Jesse's Bible and threw it in the Lake did so with the preamble; "I like God's word. I don't like what you're doing to it." She then demonstrated just how much she hated God's word.

There were "Christian" parents on this beach saying they did not want their children to hear about drunkenness and fornication - they say this standing in the midst of a half-naked crowd, with plenty drinking alcohol.

While I do indeed understand what some of you folks are saying that it may be putting the cart in front of the horse to instruct sinners about modesty...Your point is very well taken. But gracious, the way some of you are talking I'd expect the next thing to be reprimanded would be the telling to drunkards to be sober!

You absolutely cannot deny that the problem in America is not legalism - IT'S LAWLESSNESS.

One young woman had been at the beach was certainly convicted about her wearing of a bikini. She came over, now wearing a t-shrit and a towel around her waist, asked me some questions about what we were doing and then said that she didn't want anyone looking at her body anymore. And she was shocked at the reaction of the people.

No matter where you go to truly shine as a light in a dark place, the darkness will try to stamp or filter you out. Unless, of course, you make the light a little less harsh, by adding the filter of compromise. Or if you try to color a different way to make it more pleasing to the (spiritual) eye.

Browse through the sermons by Leonard Ravenhill. Listen carefully at his aside comments and prayers...many times you hear the burden he has for this area where Jesse and I currently live, East Texas.

Bible belt? It's a belt of bondage! And it's wrapped around the necks of many, tightening and tightening with each justification for sin and compromise!

Forget the whole "teaching a sinner modesty" thing that was brought up...

...you preach about purity the lacivious will cry out against you! You preach about sobriety, the drunkards will rail at you! You preach about blasphemy, you can expect to be verbally assaulted! You preach about idolatry and sure enough some will jump and prance around lifting up their praises to Satan. You preach about Jesus Christ being THE way, THE truth and THE life, and the moral relativists would like to lynch you!

If we can't preach about sin and freedom from sin through Christ, what will we preach??? Oh, what will we?

Now that is a good word brother Jesse. Great report! Keep preaching the pure gospel as I know you do.

This is a copy of a post I made on Jesse site regaurding the same issue.

[url=http://openairoutreach.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=openairpreaching&action=display&thread=1150768102]http://openairoutreach.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=openairpreaching&action=display&thread=1150768102[/url]

Now I personally am in total agreement with preaching things like a 5 point message against bikini's. However, I am wondering if all of that would fall under the "Pure Message" category. Just wondering.

It absolutely does not fall under the "Pure Message" category. In fact, it is unbiblical and harmful to Christ and the furtherance of the Gospel. Jesse I truly feel you need to repent and stop such preaching. I feel that there is a strong argument that it would better for Jesse to not preach at all and seek after the Lord and the Holy Spirit instead of preaching in such a manner. I feel this type of preaching is doing more harm then good and is an embarrassment to legitimate open-air preachers both past and present. It is like going to a rock concert and preaching against rock music.

Of course we preach against sin and preach the full council of God, but there is a way to do it and ways not to do it. There are those who walk around homosexual parades wearing sandwich boards that say “G- God A- Abhors Y- You” as and acronym for GAY or “Homo Sex Makes God Want To Vomit” Here is a link to some actual street preaching banners for sale. This is not a joke. Not all of the banners are bad, but many are clearly WRONG!!! And this type preaching against sin is harmful and I believe a reproach to Jesus.

[url=http://www.officialstreetpreachers.com/banner/BANNER501.htm ]http://www.officialstreetpreachers.com/banner/BANNER501.htm [/url]

Now I am certainly not advocating a “God loves you in your sins” modern Gospel message at all. My text for Saturday was “how shall you escape if you neglect so great salvation” I preached a 20-minute open-air discourse on hell, wrath, vengeance and eternal torture and punishment for all who don’t repent turning from there sins and those who neglect so great salvation There were many openly weeping and in tears. Then I followed with 10 –15 minutes of what is “so great salvation” and what it means to neglect it. I am not against such preaching when directed by the Holy Spirit and preached out of a spirit of compassion and loved birthed in fasting, prayer, weeping, travail and tears. But to go to a beach and preach against bikinis and list those five points or even to just say “to much flesh” is not the preaching of Christ and Christ crucified we find in the Books of the New Testament. Now one could find a Scripture here or there and pull it out to try to justify ones actions and say “see this type of preaching is Biblical” but to even suggest Jesus or Peter or Paul going down to the beach and preaching 5 points against bikinis is unthinkable!!! Think Ravenhill would have went down to the beach and preached 5 points against bikinis – think again.

I was hoping that the thread on “purity in preaching” had caused Jesse and others to repent as it had appeared by their posts, but now it sadly seems that this was not the case.

[url=http://openairoutreach.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=sayitall&action=display&thread=1149900998&page=1]http://openairoutreach.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=sayitall&action=display&thread=1149900998&page=1[/url]

If my words seem harsh, they are not to ridicule or condemn, but rather my harsh words are a continued attempt to wake up brothers to the errors of their ways and bring them to repentance. I respect and agree with much of what Jesse has to say, but this type of preaching is wrong, not lead by the Holy Spirit, shameful to Jesus and MUST stop. I am not an expert on street preaching or claim to be perfect in my words, but I know what the Lord has dealt with me about and I can feel His grief when I read and watch things like this happening.

I have had a sincere brother in the Lord tell me that he does not agree with the 5 point sermon. He says he can't image the Apostles preaching something like that. I never thought too much of it because I have heard far worse. But I look for truth in every criticism. As Pastor Britt Williams warns, open air preachers are criticized so much that they can become harded to all criticism, even good criticism.

I hope this true and that you will take these words to heart for these matters have grieved my heart deeply. We MUST return to purity in our preaching in these very crucial and wicked days. We must preach directed by and with the unction of the Holy Spirit endued with power form on high. Please seek the Lord in prayer on these issues and know that you will be in my prayers.

[url=http://gospeltruth.net/1944power_from_on_high/power.htm]http://gospeltruth.net/1944power_from_on_high/power.htm[/url]

In the love of Christ,
Patrick

As you know from my earlier post, I did not accept the answer given to the original question: “What’s wrong with bikinis?” I felt that the suggestions given cannot lead us to workable or godly solutions.

Actually, insufficient beach covering is wrong because of the danger of sun exposure -predisposing the skin to cancer. Another problem has more to do with hanging out on the beach than the attire: It is simply not the best social environment for our youth. It is a waste of precious time. If our youth really value themselves they will spend their time preparing themselves for their future, developing skills, talents, and healthy relationships, and learn from older men and women.

Now, I would like to address the problem of temptation to men (which I suspect is the real concern here):

I once suggested to a young lady that her attire might attract men to her body. She said, “Good, that’s the way it should be.” I then suggested that it might make her look available, and she said, “Of course not! Guys know that I am not like that. I make it clear.” So, you see, as I pointed out earlier, we’re dealing with much more than meets the surface.

Yesterday I was visiting a friend and her 80 yo father. At one point I could tell in my spirit and by in his eyes that he started to have lustful thoughts towards me. Surely it was not because my arms were showing. The first thing I had to do was resolve that the problem was not me, but him. Really it was a spiritual problem. So I started talking about God. That redirected his mind to some powerful hidden emotions – his bitterness towards the church and God. Actually, he was an atheist. Clearly it was his soul that needed changing, not my attire or behavior. I didn’t need to flee. It was my God-given responsibility, out of love, to point him God-ward. In the end, he respected me for it.

Now, as I pointed out earlier, you will never get rid of the problem of fleshly exposure. It was around in Bible days. In the Greek empire nude status were common in the marketplace.

If a solution to any problem requires something that one has no control over, then one is looking in the wrong place. In other words, if the solution to male lust lies with choices made by females in our society, then, alas, there is no hope for many of our young men.

As I pointed out earlier, you cannot make females the cause or solution of a male problem. The development of mature men does not lie in the females (alone) . He must take responsibility and personal accountability for his life. That is biblical. If the best he can come up with is to impose a dress code on the females, then he has failed to change anything within himself. He has failed to move himself, or his fellow men God-ward. He has failed to grow in love.

How many hours have you spent in your prayer closet weeping over the conditions of these poor girls who in their lack of self worth have unwittingly become co-workers of Satan?

An unmarried young man once told his mother that he was looking for the virtuous woman like in Prov. 31. She said, “You won’t find her, but she will become one through the way you treat her.”

So, as spiritual heads, leaders, as elders of church and society a big responsibility lies with our men. Our young ladies will behave (and dress) in response to how they are treated.

It is a spiritual issue, really.

What might the role of our elders be? How might they teach younger men?

Diane

or go to a battered women and childrens shelter, and offer to pray with them and LISTEN to countless stories of lives gone wrong, ill-founded decisions based on lust and carnality and all sorts of Christless foolishness, and then face them with this fact....a beautiful fact, that if they accept that Jesus Christ is the Brother, the Father, the Teacher, Husband they have been seeking all their lives, then He will lift them from the mire and mud and clean with His precious Blood and teach them in His Holy Spirit.

Amen to your post, bartle. How can anyone know what Christ is like without seeing it and experience it in his people.

Until a person understands their sin, they can never understand the cross.

A person will never have a revelation of how horriable sin is unless they have a revelation of Christ. It is the cross the shows the horriableness of sin, not sin the horriableness of the cross.

You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye." Ac 7:51

If you are going to preach as Stephen did, directly to sinners about their specific sins, be prepared to be stoned.

Notice though how little of Stephens preaching did this though. Most of his preaching was simply a rehashing of Hebrew history.

Jesse, I admire your fiery and fearless perseverance, and your desire to see sin eradicated. And I encourage you to continue to preach against sin, as did the early apostles. You pointed out:

"You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye." Ac 7:51

If you are going to preach as Stephen did, directly to sinners about their specific sins, be prepared to be stoned.

What had Stephen been doing or saying prior to this event?

According to Acts 6 Stephen was a man full of God’s grace and power. He was performing wonders and miraculous signs. Clearly his godly and Spirit-anointed life aroused their jealousy. He was accused because the religious establishment could not stand against his wisdom. He was accused of blasphemy against Moses. He was falsely accused of speaking against the temple and the law – all lies. His accusers were indeed stiffnecked.

What was the specific sin of Stephen’s audience? It was a deliberate choice to reject the faith of their fathers, to reject Christ’s mercy when he was right in their midst. It was a desire to reject what they already knew: their entire heritage, the miracles God performed on behalf of their nation. It was a deliberate choice to reject Christ’s call to repent.

How many of those on our beaches or other places of worldliness have EVER heard of Christ’s mercy, or seen his miracles? How many of them have ever witnessed even in another human being the love of Christ.
How can they be classified as “stiffnecked” if they have never said “No” to God in the first place because they have never even heard of him or his requirements?

When Paul went into Athens, he dialegomai with them [to say thorouhly, discuss preach, reason, dispute, speak] I suspect a lot of dialogue occurred. He preached the good news about Christ. Then, when some wanted to know more about his teachings, he used a statue to an unknown God to explain the real God.

Perhaps it would be good to go to the places where the “stiff necked” hang out - those who hold Bibles in their hands, and who know the contents, but deliberately refuse to believe its authenticity. Go to those who live by the letter of the law and not the Spirit – those who reject Christ and instead promote a form of godliness with dead religion. Go to those religious leaders who put unbearable burdens on their parishioners in the form of legalistic requirements, thus making them a worse child of hell. Go to those who trust in their salary, their popularity, or in their “horses and weapons” and insurance policies to protect them, yet sing and talk about their trust in God.

I find it interesting that even Nathan, when he approached King David about his sin, didn’t start out by calling him a stiffnecked accomplice of Satan or something. Instead he told a story about a lamb. And THAT is how David’s conscience was awakened.

Jesse, What best awakens the consciences of your audience to the reality of God?

Diane

Diane,

I beg to differ with you on an important point:
Quote:
\tIt’s time to stop blaming females for what may be very much a male problem. It takes males to \treinforce the problem.

Lady, females DO dress to attract male attention. I have seen it many times. I have seen very\tyoung girls dress very inappropriately and act lewdly to attract male attention. Years later they were involved in fornication, then married, divorced and remarried…..

Diane, you are a female....are you not appalled when you see public displays of behaviors that should be confined to a married couple in the privacy of their own lives? Where is the shame? People have discarded shame as being an unhealthy emotion, hurts ones self-esteem! Appears to me too many have too much self-esteem!

Today many people are appalled with the breakup of marriages. It all begins when the child is young, with modesty being taught and lived; having a healthy respect for God’s wonderful creation and working in line with Biblical directives to preserve it. Violating these rules will bring result in disastrous consequences.

Diane, it is not only the young who are dressing immodestly and appearing in public, it is the mothers and grandmothers as well. I tell you it is very bad here in Mississippi. Last summer we visited in the north and I was surprised how little of it was there. Really! Jesse lives and preaches in Texas and I would suppose most who post on his thread have no clue how bad it is in the south! It is vexing! I perfectly understand his concern. Now whether he should have gone to the beach to preach, I do not know. All I know is that one has to be led by the Holy Spirit and do His biding, anything else would be disobedience.

We live in the so-called Bible belt. Most of the people here are professing Christians. They will tell you they are and they believe lifestyle is irrelevant to their faith, that faith will NOT impact their lifestyle. Trust me, I have worked/counseled with these people for many years. What Jesse is preaching against goes far beyond bikini wearing. There is this mindset that is so deeply entrenched in the southern people I do not know what it will take to shock them out of it.

So you want to go swimming? You CAN dress modestly. Do a goggle check using ‘modest swimwear’ and see what you get. Are those swim suits mainstream? No. But living for God is not either. It is far better to live for Him and being mocked for it then it is to contribute to another’s sin.

Somehow, I suspect too many on this forum love to see the exposure of female flesh. Too bad.

ginnyrose

EDIT: I thought Jesse was from TX..sorry I was wrong.

While Jesse went to the beach to preach and witnessed the nudity there, here in the south you see it on the streets, just haven't seen any females wear thongs but if people do not repent I would guess it won't be long until we do.

Here is a short 4min teaching on modest dress given to young Christian women that I think most would find appropriate, somewhat harsh, but loving all the same.

[url=http://www.thesearchforbiblicaltruth.org/dont_give_in_to_the_pressure__michael_brown.mp3]Don't Give Into The Pressure[/url]

I have passed out probably close to a hundred of these burned to CD to woman at Church. Modest of dress is a problem in our society and culture and sadly in many Christian Churches.

Patrick

Hi, Ginnyrose, I’m not sure where you differ. Perhaps it has to do with my use of the word, blame. Do you think I mean “accountable”? ie No blame=no accountability?

It is never right to blame our sins on anyone else – regardless of how wrong the OTHER persons are. We must all take accountability for OUR sins. That is what I meant. That is the journey to the cross. As long as we look outside our own responsibilities we will never move on in growth.

That only moves us away from Christ. We must trust our Lord to do that. We cannot count on a better environment and culture to make us better people. We cannot count on a better church. But we can count on God. “God’s divine power has given us everything we need…. to live a godly life.” From 2 Pet. 1

As long as our males blame females for their choices, they will never be free. As long as they believe that changing female attire is the solution, they will never have hope.

Notice how we have lots of info about female attire, and yet the Bible speaks much more to males about how to deal with themselves regarding suggestive females.

James One makes that clear, ‘When tempted no one should say, ‘God is tempting me. …. But each is tempted when by his own evil desire , he is dragged away and enticed.”

I have seen very young girls dress very inappropriately

Diane, it is not only the young who are dressing immodestly and appearing in public, it is the mothers and grandmothers as well.

Those in darkness are in bondage to this world, their sin nature, and the devil’s schemes. But, ultimately, when they come to Christ they take accountability for their own choices, even though they acted in ignorance. And when they discover who they are in Christ, they will change their behaviors and choices.

Of course, I hate immodest attire of any kind. But I can’t fix it, other than what I can control: what I wear myself. But I can’t force anyone to wear what they don’t want to unless they are young kids or senile, or unless I have been given authority – like enforcing uniform regulations in a private school. (I wish!)

I feel that much of what we see in female attire reveals a general degeneration of the value of human life – especially females. They are letting themselves be used. That has been going on for centuries in many cultures. We’re no different.

Appears to me too many have too much self-esteem!

In the meantime…. it does no good to keep chewing on the evils in this culture – like attire. It’s something you can’t do anything about anyway; and it gives you no peace.

“Whatever is true… noble… right…. pure…. lovely… admirable…think on these things. And the PEACE of God will be with you.” Phil. 4:9

Turn your eyes upon Jesus and the things of earth will become strangely dim.

And you will develop God’s heart for lost sinners.

Diane

I've been following this thread since it began. I am amused as well as disheartened. I have soooo much I would like to say but don't have the time and really it would probably be just trying to argue and debate anyway. I would like to make a few comments if I may:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"If I am not out in the open air calling drunkards, adulterers, sodomites, fornicators, immodest women, lustful men to repent, you can be sure of one thing - I must be backsliden"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does this mean that all christians who are not out calling 'sinners' to repent in public - that we are backslidden?

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I will call sinners to repent until my last breath because I know if they remain in their sin the bible says they will burn and burn and burn for eternity, with the smoke of their torment rising up forever"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jesse, I have to wonder if you claim to have no sin- that you never sin? That you are also not a sinner? I understand you're wanting to rescue people from hell- of course, only God can truly do that. I do applaud your zeal and your boldness- but not at the risk of becoming a pharisee. Do you honestly think yourself as so much better than all those 'sinners' out there that you are preaching to? I would tread very cautiously here. I don't deserve God's salvation or rescue, neither do you. By God's grace He did reveal Himself to you and to me and to many on SI, but it is only by His grace- of nothing we can boast in ourselves.

I have to wonder if you have been reading so much of other men's writings that maybe you have missed out on time reading the Word for yourself. Funny thing, I just got David Wilkerson's newsletter today in the mail. The title: "Jesus: Friend of Sinners".
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"And yes, I do believe a bikini is suffient enough for God to send a women to hell."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does this mean that someone wearing a 2 pc. is going to hell and someone wearing a 1 pc. is not? Where do you draw the line if you are making this kind of law? My whole family goes to the lake every summer for our short vacation.Our whole family waterskis, tubes, kneeboards, etc... I have to wonder, is it a sin if my daughters and I wear a 2 pc. bathing suit, a 1 pc. bathing suit? Should we wear shorts and a tank top instead? How short is short? Who's to say that a tank top is not a sin as well? Someone else may believe that wearing shorts is a sin and will send you straight to hell. Who is right?

I do believe in modesty. And i do believe it starts in the heart. I have a 16 yr. old daughter as well as a 7 yr old daughter. Arielle (16) is very modest in everything she does. It's a mind set for her. She wears longer skirts (just because she likes them), wears jeans most of the summer and hardly wears shorts above the knee most of the time. Yet she does wear a two piece around our family at the lake. When she is not in the water she wears something over her bathing suit and there are no young guys around. By your standards, she is going to hell. I can tell you that I know for sure that is not the case.

For those who are interested, Nancy DeMoss is doing a series on modesty right now on her radio program. You can read it here:
ReviveOurHearts.com

I don't mean to argue or be disagreeable, I am merely stating my own opinion. I feel grievous about the many other things that are going on in the world, the hearts of many who are growing cold and distant to God or don't know Him at all. It seems to me that a bikini is the least of our worries.

In Him, Chanin

I just can't believe that people are still justifying bikinis and condeming the preaching. I'm really beside myself about that.

Maybe you are beside yourself because you have departed from preaching the Bible?

I am not trying to major on the minors at all. I do not go everywhere preaching against bikinis. I only do that at beaches. Why? Because that is the major sin of beaches. At a bar I preach against drunkeness. At a homosexual parade I preach against homosexuality. On a campus I preach mainly against drunkeness and fornication. Our messages must be relevant to the condition of the audience.

Is that all you do though, preach against sin? I've been growingly concerned for you over the past year or so, that such is simply all you are becoming, a preacher against sin. When you made it on to MTV did they hear you preaching about Christ, or did they hear you preaching about sin? Don't think the two are the same.

"KingJimmy" when was the last time you have heard me preach open air? I don't recall ever preaching with you.

I've heard your audio files, and have read your articles, and have received your newsletter. I've been guilty of the same, and only of late have come to realize that much of my preaching was not Christ centered, even if it was a message steeped in a call to repentance.

Yes KingJimmy my sentiments exactly. Jesse don't let the devil take you off on a rabbit trail. The issue is not about bikinis but it is about your preaching. I don't condone or defend bikinis but I am highly critical of the preaching. It is your preaching that is the issue not bikinis. I have also become concerned for you and as you know, have been trying to urge you to get DEAD serious about purity in preaching and keeping your tongue free from the fires of Hell.

As I read this I think of Ravenhills interview when he talked about a preacher at a swimming pool for the first time with their family....and the preacher realised his childeren were seeing their mom nearly naked for the first time...and the preacher left after being grieved over what he was seeing in public, and another man left soon after he did, Ravenhill said.

Someone said 2 pc. or 1 pc. where do we draw the line??? Where is the line drawn when watching tv?? How much filth do you let in before you turn it off or "leave it?"

How do you go to a beach and see half naked or (in my opinion naked) women and not wrestle with thoughts....not good thoughts??? As I said before they leave nothing to imagine! I really think WE or alot of us have gotten used to the darkness we live in.

EXAMPLE: Yellow Springs Ohio is a witch haven...witch craft stores and so on... AND yet NO ONE in the town sees it as darkness! They laugh at you...."O whats wrong with the TARA CARD store its all for fun" they say...
Charles Manson wants to move their to...

So whats my point here....WE are so used to nakedness in our society...WE dont see it anymore as wrong or sinful or immodest!

Before long we'll have so called christians going to real nudest beaches....and someone will say "where do you draw the line??" Hmmmm...

Now were getting to the real issue I think...COMPASION!

The Lord has dealt with me just recently about preaching with compassion. I believe there will be NO compassion in our preaching without weeping over the lost before we go preach to them!! Jerm. 9:1
Weep day & night!
I remember J.Edwards daughter telling his congregation that "you say daddy preaches hard...but if you could here him weep for you behind closed doors..."
As William Booth told his discouraged church before coming home "try tears"

Wesley said, "Preach 90% Law and 10% grace." And I completely agree with Wesley. A person must first understand their sin and then they will understand Christ.

I preach Jesus Christ. But there is a balance here that I think you are missing. Don't go from one extreme to the other. There is a balance. You seem to be promoting, "preach Jesus as Savior only" which is not biblical

I agree greatly with the principles about preaching the law of God in order bring the sinner to an awareness of their sin, and the judgment of God upon sin. And I am far from preaching Jesus as savior only, for I firmly believe that Jesus cannot be one's savior unless Jesus is one's Lord. I am not advocating some sort of easy belivism conversion stuff. I firmly believe and preach that there is no salvation outside of discipleship.

We must preach wrath as well as forgiveness. We must preach God's anger as well as His love. We must preach God's hell as well as God's heaven. It's not one or the other, it's both.

Agreed. But where I'm really concerned here with you, and many other fellow street preachers is how little of Christ we actually preach. The Lord showed me once that I was guilty of preaching Christ only in order to further show the sinner how he was damned. And I think this is what many other street preachers are guilty of as well.

I think such can be seen especially in Ray Comfort's going through the 10 commandments approach, where he takes a sinner through each of the commandments and probes around to find if they are guilty of breaking one of them. It seems when it gets to things such as do not murder or do not commit adultery, Jesus' sermon on the mount is invoked simply to show how not only should we not commit adultery, but how we shouldn't lust either.

Frankly, this is the most I have heard Christ preached. Christ simply becomes another tool to attempt to convict somebody of their sin in much of our street preaching.

For you street preachers out there, ask yourselves these questions:

How often do you talk about how Christ raised the dead in your preaching? Do you talk about the man at Nain, or Lazaraus?

Do you talk about how Christ cast out the legion of devils?

Do you talk about how Christ calmed the sea?

Do you talk about how Christ multiplied the loaves and fishes?

Do you talk about the woman with the issue of blood?

Do you talk about the woman and the alabaster box and worship (remember, Christ said wherever the gospel was preached, she would be remembered!)

When you go about your preaching my fellow street preachers, is your preaching consumed with talking about the actual life and ministry of Jesus Christ?

If we read Acts closely and honestly, you will see such was done as much as hell-fire preaching was. If we were to spend 90% of our time preaching on sin, and then 10% on grace, we will have still missed a ton about the life of Christ which we are called to proclaim.

The only thing I must lament about Ray Comfort's ministry and the principles that he teaches is that many people have taken [b]a[/b] truth that Comfort has wonderful insight about, and made it [b]the[/b] truth. So much so that when we read the book of Acts, we can count all the places that the apostles preached against sin and called people to repentance, but we also fail to notice in the process they were equally consumed about telling others about the entire life and ministry of Christ.

And just a side note, if we were to really be as studious about this, and as Biblical as possible, scholars have generally identified 10 topics that we see happen over and over again in all the preaching recorded in the New Testament. I would have to consult a book or two to fully elaborate on those 10 things, however, suffice to say such should show us that the gospel the early church preached was much broader, and they were consumed with much more than a "turn or burn" message.

Wesley also once said "I gave them Christ!"

While I agree that it's possible to preach too little of Christ, I disagree that it is possible to preach too much against sin.

I'm all in favor of preaching against sin. We need more of it. However, it is possible and often done, that street preachers tend to preach too much against sin. If sin is the center of your message instead of Christ, then you've preached too much against sin. Your preaching should be characterized by the world as focusing on Christ, not sin. This is what we see over and over again in the New Testament.

I just read this from a link on the 'letter to street preachers' thread...

Christians are to testify to:

The immortality of the soul. (The fact that conscious existence goes on forever - as this is clearly revealed in the Bible.)

The vanity and unsatisfying nature of all earthly good.

The fulfilling nature and glorious sufficiency of serving Jesus.

The guilt of sinners - and the reality of hell as a place of eternal punishment for them.

The love of Christ for sinners.

The necessity of a holy life, if we think of ever living for eternity in the presence of God. Without holiness, "no one shall see the Lord." (Heb. 12:14)

The necessity of self-denial and of living above the world.

The necessity of meekness, humility, and heavenly-mindedness.

The necessity of complete integrity and an entire renovation of character and life for all who would enter heaven. (Of course, it should be made clear that this, as well as the previous three, are only attainable by fully submitting by faith to Christ.)

How To Be A Witness
...For the Right Side
Charles G. Finney

for the complete article: http://www.lastdaysministries.org/articles/howtobeawitness.html

Jesus once said that the weightier issues of the law are justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These are the major sins Jesus said. Homosexuality didn't seem to make that list, hmm....

My fellow street preachers, when you preach against sin, do you denounce:

injustice?

harshness?

unfaithfulness?

These are the big sins Jesus said. Yet I imagine these are the sins we preach against the least. They are the ones that demand your fullest attention. Yet how many of you have preached against them? Do they regularly make it into your list of sins?

I dare say if they don't, then you've never preached against sin.

Well, here goes ...

Almost hate to feel obligated to have the preface, the classic ... "While I appreciate the ..." Followed by the "But..."

All you brothers who are out there confronting the world, boldly in heart and spirit, willing to or maybe better stated compelled to share the Gospel with all walks of life in all kinds of difficult and even dangerous situations ... That I prayed more for each and everyone of you and that all those here would do likewise, regardless of thought's and opinions on manner and style. You are doing what many would not do, I would include myself in those ranks ... to a point.

That point is partially just by way of observance so I don't really know what I am talking about by experience. The one thing I haven't heard here as of yet is just the reliance upon the Holy Spirit. Not that anyone in their right mind would be out there doing this without Him, but do you guy's rely on the promptings as to what to speak in any given situation? For instance in the situation that this whole post surrounds or has been maybe even overestimated from what Jesse is stating, seem to recall that this was just a part ...

There is something just a bit peculiar about the "[i]how to's[/i]" being offered across the board when the situation isn't really the determining factor ... I think. Again, I don't pretend to know so it is as much a question as anything. What I seem to recall very much from Robert's preaching as he has expressed it here from time to time and as just one of many examples, that he is more concerned with bringing the message the Lord wants conveyed in that particular moment. If it is not too forward of me saying so, that he would just as soon shelve a 'prepared' topic or sermon if he felt the Lord wanted to go in a entirely different direction. What I perceive a bit here is a reactionary impulse often times to the surroundings and of course how could one but not do that, seems quite normal. Could only imagine when one is faced with this sort of thing, the hecklers and the drunks outside of bars, the beach ... That this would be quite normal to react against. [i]But[/i] ...
Surely balance, but Whose and when and in which situation? I have long since sensed a very dangerous word for the Christian is [i]Always[/i] when it comes to the things of the Lord. To use a very poor analogy, it does seem to me in my experience that the Lord is often throwing curve-balls to what I [i]think[/i] ought to be done, said or not said. Have found by long experience that a great deal of trouble has been caused by mu unwillingness to often just keep my mouth shut and a great deal of good done by not having a concern about it other than that I am paying attention and listening, praying constantly to hear the Lords still quiet voice, and then speak if need be.

Hard for a street preacher I am sure, how does he stay quiet? That's not really the emphasis here though. Thinking greatly of how the Lord Himself behaved in front of the crowds He was addressing, or Paul. Different at different times and not seemingly premeditated. That the Lord more often than not left His listeners with more questions than answers, probing questions to be sure, right to the heart. Paul's being prompted to [i]not preach[/i] by the Holy Spirit but to go somewhere else, again not [i]always[/i].

This will likely be misconstrued but when I first began to be led into the Light and still had much to learn ... My wife and I went to go see Metallica, yes, those guy's. Had won tickets off the radio and it was when they were recording with the San Francisco Symphony. [i]Different[/i] to say the least ... But while we were in line there were a couple of guy's with their big signs, "God hates____" so on and so forth, they were pretty vocal and ... The strangest thing I have never forgotten was as we were standing in line and my eye's met with one of them and he never again uttered a word the rest of the time we were in line, it struck me as very odd and do hope nothing gets read into that. I don't really know ... why. But I was quietly praying underneath that they seemed genuinely sincere even in all their rallying, but also quite angry, misdirected, bitter. Wanted to say something, that I was a 'new believer' and ...

Don't have a particular conclusion here, just thought I would share.

You are right Mike we must be lead by the Holy Spirit. I personal will not preach unless the Lord has given me a message and directed me to preach. See, we must understand that we don't know what to say or do, but God knows exactly what to say and what he wants us to do. We need to speak directed by the Spirit letting Him speak through us and not of our own understanding. If the Lord has not given me a word then I seek Him as what he would have me do - one to one witness, intercede, observe (maybe he wants to teach me something), serve, etc. One weekend I didn't preach or one to one witness at all either Sat or Sun, but I spent about 8-10 hours in the park praying and interceding for those were preaching and witnessing.(under the direction and guidance of the Holy Spirit) The point is we should not lean on our own understand and let what we think is good lead us away from the perfect will of God. We must by lead by the Spirit and walk in the Spirit constantly drawing and pressing closer to
God and seeking, hungering and thirsting after His perfect will.

I may be more sensitive to this now because of the people we are witnessing to. I had some sense and knowledge of being lead by the Spirit when witnessing say at the Super Bowl or the Final Four Basketball games, but when witnessing to crack and heroin addicts, drug dealers, gang members, prostitutes, homeless, pimps, etc. you have to be in the Spirit and rely on Him for what to say and do. This does in no way lessen the fact that we need to be lead by the Spirit and let Him do the talking no matter who we are witnessing to. God knows what to say and when to say it- not us.

Not that anyone in their right mind would be out there doing this without Him, but do you guy's rely on the promptings as to what to speak in any given situation?

This is being addressed in the other Letter to Street Preachers through. However, to the grieving of my heart, I must say that once in an article I read of Jesse's that he said street preaching is more of a skill and art form than a gift from God. I don't know if he still holds to that statement, I hope not. I know he speaks of anointing some, but such does not seem to the foundation of his operations.

I appreciate these last several posts – they help me articulate what my calling really is as an ambassador of Christ.

So, how is everyone getting edified from this thread?

It makes me realize how close the household of God walks towards tribalism and witch-hunts. Right this minute I am thinking of three people who have become atheists because of what they saw in the church.

It breaks my heart when God’s people are so quick to attack the sins that they themselves abhor. Yet they don’t bat an eyelash at the gross injustice and exploitation of humanity going on all around. In fact many are schmoozing the very ones who are subtly using them – those “important people”, giving them the “seat of honor”.

I was once a good Christian (on the outside)– sincere and dedicated. In my past, the same preachers who would spew out hellfire on the bikini-clad female and the homosexual would also heap all kinds of affirmation on me – thus reinforcing my own hypocritical deception. It makes me wonder if the bikini-lady is safer than the pleaser-churchlady.

I have come to this conclusion:
There are two places where it is dangerous to assess the spiritual condition of someone: the church and the beach. Our conclusions are too easily obscured by outer appearance, and that affects the way we treat people.

There are disparate needs all around us, though easily masked. Countless are beat up, worn, and despairing, – but all we see is their spiked hair black lipstick. Dare we beat them up some more? We have lost our ability to give out “cups of cold water”. We can’t weep with or for the wounded anymore. Like them, we have become numb.

People are committing suicide on a daily basis because they can’t cope any longer. Our counselling agencies and health facilities are over run. Yet our churches are empty most of the week – impotent, fixated on programs and rituals, and wasting our time over a bit of fabric, or some other thing they can do nothing about, or liability policies.

Cancer and other diseases are ramped. We are killing ourselves in all kinds of ways – like over consumption of unhealthy foods. And yet we Christians don’t bat an eyelash. In fact, we even practise gluttony ourselves, sanctified at our potlucks. My, how easily we overlook all the sins that are our own.

We use the word, “sin” to refer to outer manifestations, clothing, addictive behaviors, sexual orientation, etc. But we haven’t even begun to address sin. I know you will disagree. But I say, we haven’t even come near the core of the heart – separation from God, trying to live with out him.

Our zealous preachers may indeed succeed in generating a form or repentance: ladies may very well dress better, but this only ends up polishing the outer cup. Then these people are worse than before, for now, they have some self-righteousness to wrap around themselves.

So, if anything, I hope this thread causes us all to examine our lives: Do we radiate the glory of Christ, or are we just wearing ourselves out, resorting to manipulative and controlling attempts to change others?

Diane

This may seem simple to some, but what happened to preaching salvation, getting the people saved,
Saved by the Blood of the Lamb,
and let the Holy Spirit clean them up?
After I got saved, no one had to tell me how to dress.
It may take longer for others to dress modestly, but the Spirit of God will show them, if they are truly born again.
God Bless
Nellie

Brother Jesse,

I think you are very courageous to do the things you do. I also am blessed by your writings that are posted here on this site.

Remember that Jesus saved his strongest indictments for the religious people of his times and was much more merciful to the people who were sinners.

Jesus to the woman caught in adultery:

"Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

Jesus to the Pharisees:

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those who are trying to."

The people that you preach to don't know God, or his requirements, or his holiness. We have to remember these people have been living in ignorance to God, which is different than willful defiance.

I believe that is why Jesus spoke more harshly to the Pharisees than to the sinners. Because the Pharisees should have known better.

God bless your ministry Jesse.

Murray

So, how is everyone getting edified from this thread?

and

I was once a good Christian (on the outside)– sincere and dedicated. In my past, the same preachers who would spew out hellfire on the bikini-clad female and the homosexual would also heap all kinds of affirmation on me – thus reinforcing my own hypocritical deception. It makes me wonder if the bikini-lady is safer than the pleaser-churchlady.

Would it not be extremely edifying if we could turn or deter just one from the aforementioned actions? I feel this should be the goal of the thread. But sadly I don't feel it is working.

I do believe that sin can be preached against TOO MUCH. I have heard it done in person and on audio. Too often I have seen or heard Christ-ian street preachers leave Christ out of a message. All they preach against is sin. Three problems with this: 1) they leave lost sinners hopeless in their sins with no solution to their detrimant 2) they have not determined to know nothing else except Christ and Christ Crucified. 3) the lost sinners who are hearing the message begin to think it is a works message...that one can be saved by stopping sinning. Why do sinners sin? Because they are sinners! They know nothing else and are in bondage to their sin. What can stop them from sinning? Nothing except them becoming Born Again. God must remove their cold, dirty, hard heart and give them a new one. We must preach the New Birth! Because it is only through the indwelt Holy Spirit that they can ever live a life that brings God Glory. Some O/A preachers I have heard seem to think that a person can live rightly apart from being a Christian. When sin and repentance is preached too much, the hearers begin to think that God will save them if they reform their lives and start to live rightly. It is no wonder they get mad many times. The logical conclusion if they think this is that the preacher thinks He must be better than them, because he says he is going to Heaven while his hearers are not. Our message needs to be VERY CLEAR. Repentance and Faith--> becoming Born Again and living a right life because of what God's Grace has done in you!

Brother Jesse stay faithful!!! I have told alot of christians about you! Many of us are not as faithful as you are.
Brother your out their in the thick of it all and some others are the thick of reading books...nothing wrong with reading christian books but if thats all we do then....

Spiritual books or sermons dont make us spiritual...it may make us FEEL spiritual.

Brother I believe you'll be closer to the throne of God than alot of us in heaven!

Stay the course!! We are all growing in grace!!!

Scripture is clear on naming sin, exposing sin, condemning sin and coming against sin wherever it may be found, be it in our local assemblies, our city streets or at beaches.

To decry the ministry of another man due to not accepting that man's approach in preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ is sinful in itself.

Jesse Morrell proclaims not only that sin is wicked in all of it's forms but also exults the Name of Jesus Christ wherever he is found to be ministering the Word of God.

May God Himself strike with conviction those who come against the Gospel they claim to love and obey.

Well did Isaiah the Prophet speak of you!

You blind Pharisees!

I wonder how much time even the administrator of this forum spends with the Lord in prayer and in fasting before speaking such wicked words against another servant of God?

Spiritual books or sermons dont make us spiritual...it may make us FEEL spiritual.

I like this, quite true.
If not careful, we can consume all of our time and our affection at the expense of learning the WORD (the living WORD).

Thanks Jesse,

Think we may all have learned something through this. Know that the greatest part of us has both yours and more importantly, the Lords interest in mind.

[i]Whatever He says to you, do it.[/i] Joh 2:5

GodIsMyJudge

You have little to no idea what you are talking about it.

Jesse,

I appreciate your gentle spirit. It's a wonderful thing to receive a rebuke from a brother. I find that oftentimes more helpful than a word of encouragement but it takes a soft heart that is willing to receive it and then lay it out before the Lord.

You have such a soft heart toward Jesus and I pray that this bleeds through as you speak to others about our dear Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. We need not worry about bringing conviction to another because that's a work of the Holy Spirit but rather we need to ensure that we're being obedient to what Jesus has called us to do. I praise God that you're doing that Jesse and am asking the Lord to use you as a great harvester of souls into the kingdom of God.

Blessings to you. I thank God for his discipline and correction, although I never really like it at the time it was yields wonderful results as stated in Hebrews 12.

I must say that once in an article I read of Jesse's that he said street preaching is more of a skill and art form than a gift from God. I don't know if he still holds to that statement, I hope not. I know he speaks of anointing some, but such does not seem to the foundation of his operations.

Here is a sermon on this site called [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=9737]Anointing in Open Air [/url] By Jesse Morrell.