I've heard a few people talk about some sermons by Chuck Smith concerning the King James Bible and the original texts or something, are the sermons on this site, and if so, what are the titles? Thanks in advance, JMII
Here are the direct links to the sermons, simply right click on the sermon titles and choose "save target as" to save them to your computer:
The KJV Version Bible - Part 1 by Chuck Smith
The KJV Version Bible - Part 2 by Chuck Smith
enjoy.
These two messages do they back up the King James Bible translation or speak ill of it?
Chuck is pro king-james but not "only"
Chuck is very supportive of the KJV, but not enough in my opinion. In his sermons he explains why he believes (as I do) that the modern versions are corrupt, and explains why he believes (as I do) that the line of manuscripts on which the modern versions are based on is corrupt. However, at the end he encourages people to cross reference their study of the KJV with modern versions. Thats where I depart from Chuck.
Why? Well, if I offer you a nice steak dinner complete with a side order of [b]cold
It makes no sense to me why he would spend several hours preaching against something and then end it by encouraging folks to partake in it.
The sermons on this site are an excellent place to for someone unfamiliar with this whole issue to begin studying it because Chuck is very non-threatening in his approach. It's hard to be offended by Chuck. But it's "baby-steps" into the issue. Once someone listens to these sermons I highly recommend they pursue a deeper study into it.
One preacher who I have been listening to a lot lately is James Knox ( www.jamesknox.com ) of The Bible Baptist Church of Deland, Florida. On his website there are hundreds of good sermons and series. It's some extremely hard preaching, and I think a lot of people here would appreciate his approach.
You can link to his [b]study on the KJV
http://www.biblepreachingarchives.org/jameswknox/kjv_series/
The series is 20 sermons long... so it will take a long time to get thru it all, but it's well worth it. I want everyone to know that I do NOT agree with EVERYTHING. But I am on board with him about 95% of the time.
Hope this helps!
Krispy
Its called "having insight", Krispy.
;-)rm
Well, even if you dont agree with my position, you have to admit it is a strange thing to preach against something... and then sanction it.
Krispy
Funny, I didn't get that from his message at all. He is very accurate in his remarks. In fact what He says I've been practicing for years, using abot 5-6 trans.. Perhaps re-visiting what he states would be helpful to you? All you need to do is click on the second sermon and slide the button over to about what might be the last ten minutes of his message.
:-Drm
Regarding Ormly's comments, "it's called rudeness" Krispy
Regarding the KJV, we waste a lot of time in my sunday school class with "what does your version say" or "how does the NIV translate that verse". It struck me the other day that if you went to any 1st grade classroom the teacher at least would have common sense enough to have everyone learning to read from the same book. Not "Tommy, what does your book say"? It says "Run(excelerate) Spot(Fido) Run(increase speed).
"Good, Susy, what does your book say"? It says "Move on down the road, brother Spot, move on down the road!
Wyatt
quote]
wyattearp wrote:
Regarding Ormly's comments, "it's called rudeness" Krispy
Come again??
If the teacher knew the message of the Bible he/she would give good insight when insight was needed to put to rest any suspected discrepancies found in the various translations.Regarding the KJV, we waste a lot of time in my sunday school class with "what does your version say" or "how does the NIV translate that verse". It struck me the other day that if you went to any 1st grade classroom the teacher at least would have common sense enough to have everyone learning to read from the same book. Not "Tommy, what does your book say"? It says "Run(excelerate) Spot(Fido) Run(increase speed).
"Good, Susy, what does your book say"? It says "Move on down the road, brother Spot, move on down the road!Wyatt
My wife speaks English as a second language. This makes it quite difficult for her to understand if someone uses a different translation. I'm thinking that's where Wyatt is coming from.
On the other hand, it's critical if you're doing any serious study to look at various translations, not simply one. That's been my approach for what its worth.
Quote Ormly:
Funny, I didn't get that from his message at all. He is very accurate in his remarks. In fact what He says I've been practicing for years, using abot 5-6 trans.. Perhaps re-visiting what he states would be helpful to you? All you need to do is click on the second sermon and slide the button over to about what might be the last ten minutes of his message.
This doesn't sound rude to me at all! I think Ormly's trying to help.
By the way, that's how I study my KJV Bible too, flipping through Old English, Chinese, Interlinear, NKJV, NIV.. plus a couple of 'good' commentaries, as research aids.
Hope I'm not being too rude. :)
mamaluk
Amen, Hab. Any serious inquirer will take that approach.
:-D
Are you saying I've been rude in this thread? Boy... go away for a couple weeks and everyone gets thinned skinned on here. I dont think I've said anything rude. All I did was point out that I agreed with Chuck Smith, but was dismayed that he would preach for two hours against modern versions... and then not encourage people to leave them alone. How is that rude?
Krispy
Because you seemed to have addressed your remark to meaning me. But lets not dwell on that and more on.
You said:
"Chuck is very supportive of the KJV, but not enough in my opinion. In his sermons he explains why he believes (as I do) that the modern versions are corrupt, and explains why he believes (as I do) that the line of manuscripts on which the modern versions are based on is corrupt. However, at the end he encourages people to cross reference their study of the KJV with modern versions. Thats where I depart from Chuck."
What he said was to cross reference what they read in the new modern version with the KJV. You got him backwards.
:-(rm
Thats not what he said at the end of his sermon... listen to the last 5 minutes of part II.
As for being rude toward you... I guess if someone is looking to be offended it wont matter how nicely someone words something... the other person will find a way to be offended. I fail to see how I was rude toward you...
...especially since I wasnt really responding to you, but was offering my honest opinion of Chuck's messages on the KJV.
I'm a cuddly teddy bear.
Dont pass judgement so quickly on people you dont know anything about. ;-)
Besides, you're a fellow North Carolinian... you're probably my cousin. What part of NC are you in?
Krispy
#1. I did pay attention to CS. His implications aren't different from my own and that based on what I heard him say. Context means alot in this.
#2. You need to re-read your post in regards to "rudeness" and how it could be construed to mean me.
#3. I'm just south of Raleigh near Clayton. Perhaps your are near me?
Regards,
:-Drm
I haven't heard the split version of Chuck Smith's sermon, but I've heard another one that he gave. It's posted on the Calvary Costa Mesa website, but I don't remember how to get to it. I'm sure Krispy remembers.
Much of this is a conversation that Krispy and I held a long time ago. I was almost die-hard NIV, and he stood behind KJV. After listening to Pastor Smith, and doing a little footwork myself, I'll say that I pretty much take the same stance as Krispy does now. I can't understand how some of these bad translations can be so popular.
Now, as Chuck Smith says, I don't think KJV is the only way to go. I believe you can be saved out of an NIV. I believe sanctification can happen in your life while using NAS. But honestly, for the normal, english-speaking person who's capable of understanding KJV (Come on, it's not that far of a stretch, and it really does get easier as you get acclimated), I don't know why you'd settle for anything less than a translation from the TR.
Ok, actually, I can understand why some of these newer translations are so popular. It's much the same as fast food (thanks Krispy, again, for the intuitive spark) that we (Americans) love. It's usually horrible for you, but it's quick, tastes great, easy to swallow...
#3. I'm just south of Raleigh near Clayton. Perhaps your are near me?
I'm near Asheville... I live right on the Henderson/Transylvania county line. My wife and my two older sons will be in Releigh next week for a couple days.
Good to meet ya, neighbor!
Krispy
Now, as Chuck Smith says, I don't think KJV is the only way to go. I believe you can be saved out of an NIV. I believe sanctification can happen in your life while using NAS. But honestly, for the normal, english-speaking person who's capable of understanding KJV (Come on, it's not that far of a stretch, and it really does get easier as you get acclimated), I don't know why you'd settle for anything less than a translation from the TR.
I was saved in a Charismatic Church that preached exclusively from the NIV. They also preached hard core Word of Faith doctrine and promoted such "teachers" as Benny Hinn, Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland.
All of which I now reject... but I was saved.
The difference is after being saved 5 or 6 years I began to search and study the scriptures for myself, rather than let man tell me what scripture says... and everything about my personal doctrine has changed dramatically. Now I guess I am what would be called a Fundamentalist. I prefer to call myself a Bible believing born again Christian.
Most (I'd dare say 90%) believers today in America do not spend over an hour a day studying the Bible. Heck, most dont even open their Bibles. I think most believers are almost as Biblically illiterate today as they were during the Dark Ages when scripture was not even available to common people. That is why the Church is in the shape she is in. That is why there are so many false teachers permeating EVERYTHING in the American Church. Believers just sit back and let other people tell them what scripture teaches instead of studying for themselves and letting the real Teacher teach them... the Holy Spirit.
I used to make fun of people who held to the KJV. But one day I had the thought "There must be a realistic reason why these people hold to the KJV... surely they cant all be stupid and uninformed." So I began to look into the whole issue. God began to bring different people into my life who were "KJV'ers", and thru that many books on the issue were dropped into my lap... and I have come to the conclusion that the KJV is absolutely the best translation of God's Word into the English language.
Do I think the KJV is prefect? Well... I believe there are a few things that could have been translated better.
Do I break fellowship with people who use modern versions? If I did I wouldnt be involved with this forum. When I can I like to spark an interest in people here about this topic. If someone puts an honest effort in actually studying and learning about this issue, and comes to a different conclusion than me... I can handle it. I just hate to see people bash one side or the other when they themselves dont know what they are talking about. Thats called "ignorance".
As far as the Chuck Smith sermons on the KJV go... there is another one out there that I've heard, and it's possible that I am confusing that one with the ones available here. I need to go back and check... and I will do that. That could be whats causing the confusion here.
But be assured that I will always take a strong stand for what I know in my heart is the truth. I will always contend earnestly for the faith. That does not ever give us an excuse to be rude... but sometimes people confuse a strong stand for rudeness when it is not. Our society has been so feminized (and so has Christiandom) that people mistakenly think that Christian love (agape) is some sort of syrupy sugary sappy fuzzy mushy emotion... and it's not. Love can be a hard pill to swallow sometimes.
In all honesty tho, I was not responding to anyone in particular in my initial posts... I wasnt going after anyone, or anything like that. I was just voicing my opinion.
Krispy
For what its worth and regardless of his adherence to the KJV, Krispy, I wouldn't be an attendee at his church
:-(
Ormly wrote:
For what its worth and regardless of his adherence to the KJV, Krispy, I wouldn't be an attendee at his church:-(
Is that Chuck Smith's church?
Is that Chuck Smith's church?
groh_frog wrote:
Ormly wrote:
For what its worth and regardless of his adherence to the KJV, Krispy, I wouldn't be an attendee at his church:-(
If his satelite churches are indictative of what he espouses, yes. I've seen some and their spiritual content could be of any of the "McChurch" variety that strive to appeal to the world. Church seems to be going in that direction which makes them all, sick.
:-(
Are you saying I've been rude in this thread? Boy... go away for a couple weeks and everyone gets thinned skinned on here.
If his satelite churches are indictative of what he espouses, yes. I've seen some and their spiritual content could be of any of the "McChurch" variety that strive to appeal to the world
What of your spiritual content brother?
Would prefer to leave that as a stand alone statement but knowing the confusion of intent that can come about in this medium ... It's an honest question, one I hope we all are constantly bringing to the fore of our own hearts.
There is often bitterness in your words across these posts.
There is often bitterness in your words across these posts.
But that is the way this medium lends itself. E-mail is terrible when trying to ascertain the other party's expression when something is being stated. I can assure you, though passionate, I'm not bitter.
Since I don't wish to come across as someone who is bitter, perhaps you can help me out by pointing out what you perceive as my bitterness? I've used enough smiley faces in my posts, so that task may be too difficult.
;-)
Sometimes protraying attitude is half of the challenge here. It's all in the details. Ask dorcas how many times we've had misunderstandings in our dicussions because of that very fact...
As far as the Calvary Baptist denomination, there's quite a spread in the types of churches you'll find, just as in any other denomination. You'll find strong churches, clickish churches, dead churches, and so on. A good starting point is in the affirmation of good doctrine, and there's not much that I know of to challenge within the Calvary group. Are there any specific qualms you have with them?
groh_frog wrote:
But honestly, for the normal, english-speaking person who's capable of understanding KJV (Come on, it's not that far of a stretch, and it really does get easier as you get acclimated), I don't know why you'd settle for anything less than a translation from the TR.
Funny you sythis. Recently a friend of mine "converted" from the Message translation. For years he argued that it was easier to understand. Someone gave him an audio version of the KJV and he made an interesting obervation. When he read the Message, he could never find the verse he was looking for in another translaion, but now that he readsthe KJV, he can find what he's looking for in any translation.
Don't be sacred of the "thee"s and "thou"s, their your friend.:-)
KrispyKrittr wrote:
I was saved in a Charismatic Church that preached exclusively from the NIV. They also preached hard core Word of Faith doctrine and promoted such "teachers" as Benny Hinn, Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland.
Does anyone else consider it ironic that these guys solely lean on the KJV, as translation of choice? ;-)
Oh no! Not another KJV thread! AAAUUUGGHH! Ormly, i've talked this one over with Krispy before, and we got a little heated at times, but he's a good guy. He is truly, a "cuddly teddy bear" as he puts it (gee, never thought I'd say that! :) )
Hey, you've got to respect a guy that stands up for what he believes in. Don't be mean. Sounds like you're close enough to run into him at Starbucks one day.
Phebe
phebebird wrote:
Hey, you've got to respect a guy that stands up for what he believes in. Don't be mean. Sounds like you're close enough to run into him at Starbucks one day.
Spooky really. Don't forget that there are only two 'K's, in KrispyKritter, not 3 :-P.
Hello, are these two sermons on the TWFT application? If so where do i find it in the app. Thanks
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