Hi allOne of the things that becomes obvious as part of the sermonindex family is that there is a wealth of heart and experience and information out there.I have been curious about something for many years and I think sermonindex may provide the solution. I would like to compile a database of the dates of preachers and teachers who have made significant contributions to the church of God. I have a hunch that God moves in waves and that truth has its high seasons in many places at the same time.I would like to compile a list of dates to test out my theory. How about it? I am happy to compile the information if folk can supply it. A very simple format would suffice.eg A W Tozer - borndate-glorydate - very brief bio.Let me know what you think? Perhaps someone has already done this?
Church History Project
Let me know what you think? Perhaps someone has already done this?I think it is a spectacular idea! I don't think its really been done in a non-denominational setting and how far back do you want go Ron? I would help as much as possible and would love to help you display the findings.. maybe I could work on a timeline graphical image after with the compiled findings? :-P anyhow I think its a great idea count me in.
----------------Aiden Wilson Tozer (A.W. Tozer)Born on April 21, 1897Died on May 12, 1963A 20th-century prophet" they called him even in his lifetime. His message was as fresh as it was uncompromising. His single purpose in life was to know God personally, and he encouraged others to do the same. He quickly discovered a deep, abiding relationship with God was something that had to be cultivated.----------------Is this a good format Ron?
What a fantastic idea!Think you might be on to something here Ron.Are you thinking along the lines of the speakers here?Another thought, at a later point maybe a cooresponding cross refrence of who inspired them.Something that I keep finding is the close proxemity of influences, like a thread weaving through many of these greats.Sorry, don't want to muddy the waters.Perhaps I could take on part of that aspect, since I opened my big mouth... :-D
Another thought, at a later point maybe a cooresponding cross refrence of who inspired them.Yes I have noticed that there is a thread of inspiration and that people that where on the same level fellowshipped and were aware of one another even half way across the world. The best example of this is in the "Interview" video or audio where Leonard Ravenhill talks about alot of the men of God in his day and who inspired him.This could be a really big task and in someways hard to find out.. but I since Mike offered!! lol I think if we all help out this could be done also ;-)
Greg wrote ----------------Aiden Wilson Tozer (A.W. Tozer)Born on April 21, 1897Died on May 12, 1963A 20th-century prophet" they called him even in his lifetime. His message was as fresh as it was uncompromising. His single purpose in life was to know God personally, and he encouraged others to do the same. He quickly discovered a deep, abiding relationship with God was something that had to be cultivated.----------------Is this a good format Ron?This would be fine, perhaps an extra field (column) for the main geographical locations of their ministry?
This would be fine, perhaps an extra field (column) for the main geographical locations of their ministry?Sure great idea, what do you think of Mike's idea of having a section for inter-linking relationships or who inspired (was the mentor) of the person?
Hi Ron,Jim Lutzweiler, who is the archivist at Southeastern Seminary, Wake Forrest, Univ. ( not the bartending school),has been very helpful to me in the past along these lines. I recently passed some related information to Greg (that I got from Jim) on Lynn G. Broughton. Broughton was among other things, a controversial preacher, and a contemporary, and personal friend of G.Campbell Morgan. Jim Lutzweiler's email is: lutzjscn@infi.net. If that one doesn't work I've got another one I'll give you.I expect any day to receive a copy of Greg's definative Doctoral Disertation on the life of Broughton. At this point and to my knowledge noone else has written it. :-D Clutch :-P
Greg wrote I think it is a spectacular idea! I don't think its really been done in a non-denominational setting and how far back do you want go Ron? I would help as much as possible and would love to help you display the findings.. maybe I could work on a timeline graphical image after with the compiled findings? anyhow I think its a great idea count me in.A time line would be wonderful, although it might get a bit congested. Did you ever see the shareware Chronos software. It was a good idea but very flaky in use.How far back? mmm? I'm thinking about that timeline... but the Quakers seem to be a genuine fresh start. I think their views particularly on 'perfection' influenced the Wesleys. The Wesleys and the Quakers influenced the Salvation Army. The Salvation Army influenced Hudson Taylor and so on... I was thinking of using a spreadsheet to collect the data. Is that the best way?
Hi Clutchyou wrote Broughton was among other things, a controversial preacher, and a contemporary, and personal friend of G.Campbell Morgan. You see this is the kind of thing that excites me. Campbell Morgan was a unique character in that he was a congregational minister who reckoned his spiritual home was with the Methodists. He is my favourite expositor. The Methodists of his day would have been the folk that Leonard Ravenhill trained under... and so it goes on.
I was thinking of using a spreadsheet to collect the data. Is that the best way?yes that would probably be best, is there going to be a field for the denomination or group they are associated with?I think afterwards when all the information is compiled a simpler time could be constructed showing the main key people and associations. I am very excited about this :-P My 2000 book library is going to come in handy after all! Yes checking out alot of the influnencial quakers, brethren, wesleys, etc is going to be great!
I think that if the info is to be put into a real database we may need to define a few columns first. To give it any real meaning we would need to have the truth that this person emphasised as one of the columns. The idea of linking a person to his mentors would also be of benifit I believe.for instance:Name->Watchman NeeBorn->1903Died->1972Time of Ministry->1920-1952Emphasis->Local ChurchMentors->Jessie Penn Lewis, T Austin Sparks, JNDLooking at the above I am thinking that the best solution is to have two tables interlinked. One with the basic bio info. One with truths empahsised. From those two, interesting queries could be done, like list all truths emphasised between 1800 and 1850 for example. Thats just a rough idea off the top of my head, sitting down to plan it may yield the need for further tables and fields.Great idea Ron.
Sure great idea, what do you think of Mike's idea of having a section for inter-linking relationships or who inspired (was the mentor) of the person?Yes, definitely... a separate or integrated project? I only offered because I was interested. I would be happy for Mike to head up the whole thing if he has the time and inclination.You do have to be careful with the web don't you? A quiet afternoon, a thought or two, and suddenly you have world-wide cottage industry on your hands! :-P
Thats just a rough idea off the top of my head, sitting down to plan it may yield the need for further tables and fields.GregI don't know Mike's background, but Stuart (almondBranch) is a techie. How about asking him to spec it out for us? MSAccess might suite you better for your timeline? Stuart's relational database seems to be heading in that direction?Perhaps we should let it bounce around for a day or two to see if any one else 'comes out of the woodwork'. Stuart's example of fields looks excellent to me.This is exciting, I have wanted this for years!
Hi Ron,Sort of like Issac when he re-dug his father, Abraham's wells. The first two were ones that he tried to dig in the places that he himself chose;1.Esek " to poison your eyes" ( best I can tell); strong implications here about what goes in a person. 2.Sitnah "hatred"; root word for Satan.After failing , he went to: 1.Beer-lahai-roi,"The God who lives and sees what we do" :-o 2.Beer-sheba, "Well of the Covenant"; a great place to camp out. :-D 3.Rehoboth, "space, or room ". A place to grow. Sort of like sermonindex. ;-) I 'm not sure, but I think this MIGHT preach Ron.Clutch :-P
but Stuart (almondBranch) is a techie. How about asking him to spec it out for us?Stuart would you be able to set up the tables and the inter-linking in MS Access?Ron (philogus) do you have MS Access on your computer and have you used it before. I still think you should gather all the info and if stuart could set it up or help you get the structure in the software program then all is left is Mike, Lars, me and others to go nuts on the web and research till we drop.. (hopefully not like flies). I will pace myself I can't speak for others though :-D
I have MSAccess97 SR-2. In the past I have written fairly simply databases for it but am now very rusty. I am comfortable enough to be a user/owner but if someone creates the database they will need to be sure to save it so that I can access it with MSAccess 97. Anyone familiar with MSAccess should be able to create entry forms etcI am happy to assemble information as it becomes available.Stuart, are you receiving us?If others have other data fields (see AlmondBranch examples in this thread) in mind please let us know. This is not to commit anyone or make promises but it will be easier if we can get it right to begin with.
Sorry guys, all I can offer is moral support. This all is way over my head. Looking forward to the results, though. :-) In Him, Chanin
Stuart, are you receiving us?Loud and clear. I would be glad to give it a go. I will spend some time tomorrow designing tables and playing around with relationships.If anyone has any sugestions in the meantime...post away.
Whew! (Edited version)Being that we have a rough outline going. Will start pulling together what I can from what I have, this will also force me to finish catagorizing my bookmark/favorites links.Assuming that we will have info on certain individuals, for instance McChenyne coming from multiple sources, that should provide a good cross reference in documentation.One question I have is how you want to pull this together. A 'master list' of sorts?Knowing that Greg has a pretty vast library as well as a few others here, the coverage should be pretty good. Finding their mentors may prove to be a bit of a task, but I am willing to 'go fetch' out into the WWWilderness, hit the book store, whatever is necessary.The question still remains if this would be a seperate or intergrated aspect of what you originally intended Ron. Feel that which ever way is the most convientient for you, that will make this go forward and not bog down...at your service.Perhaps we should let it bounce around for a day or two to see if any one else 'comes out of the woodwork'AgreedMike
One question I have is how you want to pull this together. A 'master list' of sorts?This may depend on the technology we decide to use. If we use MSAccess the sorting and interrogation potential is endless. We could export the most popular sorts as an MSExcell spreadsheet which should make it more accessible to more people. Access is less distributed that Excell.Let's wait and see what Stuart comes up with.
Hi allI think we are paused while we wait for a first draft data fields and possible suggestions of what engine (access or excel) we use from AlmondBranch?I received a couple of leaflets from an old friend of mine yesterday. He is in his mid-eighties, has been the Lord's from early teens, and has actually listened to some of our 'greats' in the flesh eg Campbell Morgan, Austin Sparkes. He used to live close to where Oswald Chambers had his Bible College on Clapham Common. He has had a long interest in the 'cross-referencing' of the saints. One of his leaflets is amagined musings of some of the 'greats' based on contemporaries and in some cases known meetings. For example he talks about the Wesleys meeting with Isaac Watts. It is a literary version of what we have in mind.I am going to spend an afternoon with him and get him to talk. I'll record the chat as possible data for our project. I'll keep you in the picture.
I received a couple of leaflets from an old friend of mine yesterday. He is in his mid-eighties, has been the Lord's from early teens, and has actually listened to some of our 'greats' in the flesh eg Campbell Morgan, Austin Sparkes. He used to live close to where Oswald Chambers had his Bible College on Clapham Common. :-o :-o :-o I think we are paused while we wait for a first draft data fields and possible suggestions of what engine (access or excel) we use from AlmondBranch?Yes I am excited to forsure spend time on this project.. hmm but where is almodbranch?.. :-P
I wrote I received a couple of leaflets from an old friend of mine yesterday. He is in his mid-eighties, has been the Lord's from early teens, and has actually listened to some of our 'greats' in the flesh eg Campbell Morgan, Austin Sparkes. He used to live close to where Oswald Chambers had his Bible College on Clapham Common.Greg wrote :-o :-o :-o Greg,to me that is one of the great blessings of your website. We are the first generation to have been able to listen to our spiritual ancestors. Their writings are wonderful, but there is something in the voice... I have introduced a young disciple in the church here to Duncan Campbell. He says 'you can tell from his voice that he is an eye-witness'. He's right.You might even listen to some of these writers and the flow of their language is so amazing that you might wonder whether the drama was taking over, then you listen to them, and you hear the break in their voice as they struggle to express the things that are breaking their hearts, and you know you are listening to eye-witnessess.Thank you again, dear brother, for yours and others labours on our behalf on this site. Public services in the UK have a rule of thumb that every one critical letter represents 300 more who felt the same but didn't write. I suspect that similar proportions may operate in Christian circles, so multiply that 'Thank you' by about 300 to get a better picture... ;-)
Sorry folks, I have been quite busy over the last couple of weeks and away from home for a bit. Philologos, I will email you some sort of a template later on today, or more realisticaly tomorrow morning. We can take it from there. :-)
Philologos, I will email you some sort of a template later on today, or more realisticaly tomorrow morning. We can take it from there.thanks Ron (almondbranch) for your helping out so much :) is there any word on how this is going? I am one of those over anxious reseachers that wants to hit the books to help compile info for this project :-P
Ok, I've been gone for a while, someone fill me in on this by sending me an email. I would love to help out with this one.
Hi HulseyWelcome home.This thread represents the whole conversation. So if you read it from the beginning you will be as wise as the rest of us.We are paused at present for first draft database structure that AlmondBranch is going to produce.We need to think through how we can collect the data.
Are you looking for something like this?:John Chrysostom:From A.D.347-370 (youth, trained in rhetoric under the pagan Libanius from whom he recieved the name Chrysostom meaning "Golden Mouth". converted later in his youth to Christianity)From A.D.370-381 (lived an ascetic and monastic life. composed his treatise on the priesthood to his friend Basil)From A.D.381-398 (his public life as a priest--presbyter--and preacher in Antioch)From A.D.398-404 (his time as bishop of Constantinople)From A.D.404-407 (his exile and death)Libanius when asked on his deathbed who would succeed him as the teacher of rhetoric at his school is reported to have said, "Ah, but it would have been none ohter than Chrysostom had the Christians not stolen him from us."Chrysostom and some friends had formed a small monastic community in the city of Antioch after his mother had implored him not to leave for a monastary until after she had died. Begging him not to make her a widow yet once again probably moved young Chrysostom's heart to care for his mother until her death. So, making the best of the situation, he became a monk in his own homeAt this point in history, those who sought after the monastic life actively avoided the appointment to public ministry for fear of all the temptations of power. However the piety and godliness of many of these men made them targets of the community for forceful ordination. Some were captured and tied up and brought before the local bishop to be ordained. The prevailing atmospere of the time was that once one was ordained to a community, he felt required to fulfill his call and would stay. Some coptic churches still practice this tradition by chaining and tieing up new preists about to be ordained into the ministry; although they go quite willingly now. To avoid this, Chrysostom even tricked his friend Basil into accepting ordination as a priest to avoid being elected himself. Some years later he would be forced into the office. As his fame as an able preacher grew, it became clear that he would become the bishop of Antioch. However, when the bishop of Constantinople died, a detachment of soldiers was sent to Antioch to "kidnapp" Chrysostom and take him back to the eastern capital of the Roman Empire. The security was needed to avoid potential riots as he was very popular in the city.Upon arriving in Constantinople he immediately set the Church on its ear. He defrocked all the Arian ministers and destroyed their churches, sold off all the un-needed church property and gave it to the the needy of the city. He opened a new hospital for the poor, and changed the service times so that the poor could come to the services.(It seems the last bishop had been in the pocket of the rich so to speak and only held services when most of the poorer working classes were working.)He quickly drew the wrath of the emporer's wife. This confrontation would eventually lead to his banishment. On his journey to Pityus in the Caucasus Mts., one of the most inhospitable places in the empire, Chrysostom died. He was buried in the Chapel of the martyr Basiliscus on the 14th of September in 407. His remains were later taken back to Constantinople and reburied with the emporers and patriarchs beneath the altar of the Church of the holy Apostles.
I think its going to be something more simplier as this:----------------Aiden Wilson Tozer (A.W. Tozer)Born on April 21, 1897Died on May 12, 1963A 20th-century prophet" they called him even in his lifetime. His message was as fresh as it was uncompromising. His single purpose in life was to know God personally, and he encouraged others to do the same. He quickly discovered a deep, abiding relationship with God was something that had to be cultivated.----------------so the name, born, died, main church or ministry, short bio, *(mentors and people that influnced him/her).
Hi Greg,I like Hulseys way better. I'd kind of like to get a feel for who these people were, and what they were like as people. As opposed to just having some basics on them.Clutch
I have been curious about something for many years and I think sermonindex may provide the solution. I would like to compile a database of the dates of preachers and teachers who have made significant contributions to the church of God. I have a hunch that God moves in waves and that truth has its high seasons in many places at the same time.This was part of the original post by Ron (philogos) in which he wanted to get a general overview of high and low times in spirituality by charting out all the influncential men of God though the ages.eg A W Tozer - borndate-glorydate - very brief bio.He stated he wanted a brief bio because I am assumming there would be many as in 1000's of people who he wanted to compile. And we also touched on the fact of trying to create relationships between the various speakers, like which men of God shaped others and who was in relationship with who. This type of information is not as incumbrant upon detailed biographical information but rather pointed facts about the person and his relationships.I like Hulseys way better. I'd kind of like to get a feel for who these people were, and what they were like as people. As opposed to just having some basics on them.Very true that you can get a better feel for the person, but in my opinion it would be hard to do as a good job as Husley did for all the 1000's of speakers we are theoreticly going to be doing. Its really up to Ron (philogos) im just stating my 2 cents.. or maybe 5 cents.. hey I am worth more than that.. ok a loonie (hmm do you fellows know that a loonie is? its a currency amount lets start from there :-P )
Relax Greg,Ron owes me. I just saved him from a lynch mob down here in Georgia.You said:"Its really up to Ron (philogos) im just stating my 2 cents.. or maybe 5 cents.. hey I am worth more than that.. ok a loonie (hmm do you fellows know that a loonie is?"I"ve run across a "couple"( Humpty Dumpty language) of those on both sides of the Atlantic.Clutch :-D
The example I gave would take a considerable amount of research. It would also give me yet another excuse to buy more books :-D .
The example I gave would take a considerable amount of research. It would also give me yet another excuse to buy more books On that point, I was talking to a friend and there are some books that have already done what we are talking about. But not on a large scale! So it might be good to gleam some information from these sources. It would be amazing to have a database of 10,000's of famous preachers in the end that is searchable online. :-o
Did this ever come to pass??? I would love to see it.. or if it hasn't would love to help I anyway I can. I have experience with MS Access... and I'm sure there are others here that could help too.