Please pray for Mel Gibson

did you hear about what he said about the jews?

man i still cant believe that people think he is a christian.

NO ONE who hates the jews is a christian.......NO, NOT EVEN MARTIN LUTHER!!!!!

Yes, I have heard what he said about the Jews. He isn't a Christian. Most people think because he did a token movie about Jesus he gets the green light from God. Wrong. Martin Luther did make some anti-Semitic statements. They seem to be unknown by many in Christian circles, or ignored. Hatred of the Jews or anyone else is un-Christian. The Jews are God's people, they always will be. God bless.

What was it that he said about Jews?

And what did Martin Luther say? Is there credible evidence?

AW Tozer said: "Hollywood has faces like angels but morals like ally cats"

I wasn't aware that Luther was anti-semitic. Very sad.

cease calling his problem "the disease of alcoholism" and call it what God calls it: the sin of drunkeness

Amen.

And Dorcas, you're right too. We are a little off-topic, and judgmental.

Why not pray for him concerning his attitude toward the Jews?

My recollection (from the time of the movie) was that his father was an anti-semite, and the media was trying to trap him into either agreeing with it or denouncing it. At the time, he refused to do either. He said he didn't agree with what his father believed, but he wouldn't dishonor his father either.

Did God stick with you even though you were still hanging on to baggage from your childhood? Did He in His good time reveal truth to you? When Israel was wayward did he repeal his name from them? Or was Israel still "His people?" Should we repeal the name 'christian' from someone just because their heart was in the wrong place, and their words got written down?

I'm glad I'm not famous and having my faith judged by words that I can't take back because they have been written down.

Obviously, Mr. Gibson is struggling with his faith right now. He turned to alcohol instead of to God, and he is reaping the consequences. But do you want the judgment of God to fall on him for his mistakes? Or do you want the grace of God to work toward change in his life?

I don't know Mel, I don't know his faith all that well, but obviously he is a man who wants to know Christ, shouldn't we be praying that God would have mercy and meet that desire?

----
Edit: posted at the same time as several of you. Funny how a post can become redundent while you are typing it. Well said dorcas.

Krispy, you still make me smile...AMEN! :-)

Re Thought this post

God Bless

Krispy said,

Unlike someone else on this thread, I know we can not judge anyones salvation. Especially based on what they do or don’t do.

Also the Bible states that for the saved Jew and the saved Gentile, that the middle wall of partition between us has been broken down and that Christ Jesus has made both one and removed the enmity, so making peace (Ephesians 2:14-16).

People who "think" they are saved and are yet anti-semitic ought to remember one tremendous point of theological truth - Jesus Christ was a Jew - He is the Lion from the tribe of Judah!

Grace and peace
Olan

But to put love of the Jews as a requirement for salvation is both arrogant and misinformed.

Brother, no one has said that love for the Jewish people is a requirement for salvation. But if someone is truly saved, they will have a love in their hearts for all.

For instance, someone who hates others becomes a Christian, they still hate, but gradually begin to love others. No. The Bible says "The love of God is shed abroad on our hearts by the Holy Ghost." If a person gets saved, and still hates, i doubt the validity of their salvation. "Ye shall know them by their fruits."

Your observation is right on!

Krispy,

Maybe you've forgotten what you wrote about Mel Gibson,

Mel Gibson needs to get saved, just like I needed to get saved... and everyone else, for that matter.

And,

Next time I lead someone to the Lord, as soon as they say "Amen" I'll ask them what their opinion of Jewish people is so I'll know for sure whether they truly got saved.

Grace and peace
Olan

It would seem that much of what we call christianity is really nothing more than american religion. Because american religion lacks the cross (I'm using a broad generalization) individuals become more concerned with the blessings of God instead of pleasing the God who blesses us. We have become a society that craves being motivated and comforted, thats evident in most pulpits across the country to this very day. In Mr. Gibson situation his circle of accountability only extended as far as his wife and children. However he has made a profession of faith in Christ and even went on record that it was the Holy Spirit who inspired him to create his latest production extoling the crufication of Christ. It was interesting to observe that even in his movie that the early releases (pre-market viewings) didn't include the ressurection Of Christ. Without the resurrection of Christ there can be no victory over sin, the devil or the world.

What's really needed is a "John the baptist" standing up with the power of God proclaiming the real gospel to a lost society. A simple message, straight forward and clear. Well I guess that's the challenge anyway.

What's really needed is a "John the baptist" standing up with the power of God proclaiming the real gospel to a lost society

Amen! And the first word of the real gospel is "repent." God given repentance has fruit in keeping with repentance (see Luke 3:10-14).

If repentance was preached ahead of the coming of the King in grace, what needs to be preached ahead of His coming in glory? "Repent!"

Grace and peace
Olan

If repentance was preached ahead of the coming of the King in grace, what needs to be preached ahead of His coming in glory? "Repent!"

Amen. What were His last words to the Church in Revelation? "Repent!"

You prayed for Mel? I didn't. Can't say it was on my mind, let alone my heart. Definitely not a burden. I do pray for those in prison in China whom I have never met. They are on my mind and heart, so the desire to pray for them is there. I guess Mr Gibson is on your mind and heart, hence the desire to pray. God bless.

Look beneath the surface. The movie that Mel Gibson made has had a huge impact on people's lives and brought many to salvation.

Guess what, satan is still ticked-off about it. The movie was a BIG reminder to the entire world of satan's defeat.

So what does satan do to retaliate? He goes after the producer and director of the movie who is in the public spotlight. He thinks that maybe somehow he can discredit the man and by that discredit Christianity.

Satan has sent many demonic hosts to try to destroy the life of Mel Gibson in any way possible. I cannot image what he has been going through lately has has driven him to a breaking point. I wonder how long many other peple would be able to withstand without incident the demonic resistanc that he is facing?

Face it, people screw up. We have victory over satan but we can all testify to having triped flat on our faces at times. Mel Gibson just did it in the public spotlight. Should we look at every time you have stumbled and heap condemnation your way?

WorldView wrote:
So what does satan do to retaliate? He goes after the producer and director of the movie who is in the public spotlight. He thinks that maybe somehow he can discredit the man and by that discredit Christianity.

I must agree with this statement wholeheartedly... for satan has deceived me many times as well, and yet now, I sit here in tears being ashamed of the things I have done. I choose to be merciful(Luke 6:36). May God grant him repentance (2Tim 2:24-26). Let us pray that the Lord will grant Mel a powerful revelation of Himself - the Truth that sets captives free.
God bless you all,
Let us love others as Christ loves us,
richie

And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

[i]“And who is my neighbour?”[/i] (Luke 10:29). Jesus gives an amazing reply, viz., that the answer to the question, “Who is my neighbour?” is not to be found in the claim of the person to be loved, but in the heart of the one who loves. If my heart is right with God, every human being is my neighbour. There is engrained in the depths of human nature a dislike of the general ruck of mankind, in spite of all our modern jargon about “loving Humanity.” We have a disparaging way of talking about the common crowd: the common crowd is made up of innumerable editions of you and me. Ask the Holy Spirit to enable your mind to brood for one moment on the value of the “nobody” to Jesus.

Oswald Chambers
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

An out take from a larger chapter ...

You prayed for Mel? I didn't. Can't say it was on my mind, let alone my heart. Definitely not a burden. I do pray for those in prison in China whom I have never met. They are on my mind and heart, so the desire to pray for them is there. I guess Mr Gibson is on your mind and heart, hence the desire to pray. God bless.

I hope that God desires us to pray for not only the people in china, but also for Mel Gibson.

I pray that he repents, and if he does, we need to support him, because this could happen to all of us, including David.

*WARNING, OFF SUBJECT A LITTLE BIT*

The only problem I had with the passion, is that it really didnt show how much Jesus really suffered, the physical pain was nothing compare to what he had to go through being foresaken by the father. I wish the movie emphasized that point, but it didnt, hence in a way, I feel that satan won, but then again, one of my good friends came to christ after watching the movie. It was a good way for christians to get conversations going about the gospel, so praise god.

1Jo 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
1Jo 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
1Jo 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
1Jo 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

1Jo 3:13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
1Jo 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
1Jo 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1Jo 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
1Jo 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

1Jo 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
1Jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
1Jo 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
1Jo 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1Jo 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

I think thats pretty clear......still in hate my friend? Get saved.......

Whilst right now it might be popular to pray for Mr Gibson, will anyone be praying a year from now for him? 6 months from now? A month? I doubt it. Out of sight, out of mind. He's in the news just now. When the next celebrity is on the news, will we pray for them until the next one is on the scene, and then the next and then...
See what I mean. God bless.

From the mouth the heart speaks

Yes! We can know whether or not we are saved or whether or not someone else is saved by what we say or what he or she says about the Person and work of Christ. But the Bible never lets that test stand alone. "He that [b]saith[/b], [i]I know Him[/i], [i][b]and keepeth not His commandments[/b][/i], [u]is a liar[/u], and the truth is not in him" (1 John 2:4). It is possible to profess to know Him but to deny Him by our deeds (Titus 1:16).

This is not to say that "one act of lawlessness" indicates that a person is lost. "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8). The biblical indicator is whether or not we are "practicing" sin as a lifestyle - "Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness" (1 John 3:4 NASB).

Our growth in righteousness is progressive - and sometimes regressive - hence, "Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted" (Galatians 6:1).

Yes, we need to pray for Mel. And in so-doing, let us not forget to pray for all those who will now be ridiculed and whose faith will be called a "hoax"; that they will understand the nature of the battle to which we are called and that they will share the sufferings of Christ, and keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory they may rejoice with exultation (1 Peter 4:13).

Grace and peace
Olan

When we say we are saved, does it mean saved from the wrath to come? Leonard Ravenhill asks in a sermon, what are we saved from, then list some of those things that we are not yet saved from.
Whilst we are saved from the wrath to come, there is still loss of reward spoken of in 1 Cor 3. Still, this deviates from the original thread. God bless.

Let's keep it real and keep it friendly! We are all in this together. We are all fighting in the same battle, and for the same cause; to glorify Jesus' precious Name.

Amen, Richard. I've been watching this post and deliberately staying out. All that was originally asked was that we pray for this man. It's very sad to observe the degeneration.

I believe that our salvations are partly the result of someone praying for us while we were yet heathen. Whether Mel is truly saved or not, I can not say. Especially when men like Ravenhill and Singh have doubted that not more than 5% of professing Protestant Christians are truly born again of the Holy Spirit!

This is obviously important to brother Bartle. I'll come in agreement with him. I'll pray the Lord's will be done in Mel's life and leave it at that.

With Chrtistian love,

Brother Paul

And I know that when I go through difficult times, I would love and appreciate prayer for myself, that I would be forgiven and set free from my difficulties.

Amen! Amen!

I do pray for many of the stars (loosely speaking) in the movie industry as well as thier behind the scenes personell. But to be honest I intercede for very few. I make a difference between the two >>prayer/intercession. I guess I like what the Word of God says when its speaks, "if the foundations be destroyed what can the righteous do?"
I think the message of the gospel has become so muddied in america that it's hard to know salvation in Christ from a secular stand point. So many voices! I guess if one could talk to someone like a Mel Gibson, it would be good to let them know that Jesus is a very present help in a time of need. I think I'd like to tell them that Jesus is alive and real and has overcome death hell and the grave, that there is victory in Christ over sin. I just wonder what gospel it is these folks are hearing, watching on tv and the radio, I wonder , do they have christian fellowship? bible study? do they attend prayer groups? do they have others around them to pray for them and incourage them? An open rebuke is better than secret love, maybe just maybe they have none to openly rebuke them? Are they teachable? Who knows, but God. I do know enough to know that just maybe his situation is an oppurtunity for the christian community to pour out thier effectual prayers on his (Gibson) behalf. And that's a fact!

Forgive me if I am posting out of place here. Alcoholism is a DISEASE, sinful yes, but still a disease of the mind and body. Why is anybody suprised of the ranting of a alcoholic? Because it's Mel Gibson? Alcohol is a DRUG!! As a recovering alcoholic, I have said & done things countless times while drunk, only to feel the fool & remorse later. You brain is impaired, you say things you do not necessarily truly believe. This just did not happen to Mel. Besides taking that first drink, a series of events led up to this behavior. The delusion that a alcohholic is of weak, or lacking in moral character is just silly. I have suffered & known pitiful incomprehensible demoralization well. As I am sure Mel Gibson, who is just a human does. He is sick and needs prayer for recovery, as well as spiritual direction. It would seem anybody judging if he is, or if he is not a Christian should stop and take a look at that one word, JUDGING. Mel does need to address health needs or die. And yes it seems he needs direction from God or die forever. But he is a sick man. But hey, that's just me.

KrispyKrittr wrote:

And what did Martin Luther say? Is there credible evidence?

I dont know what Gibson said, but Martin Luthers anti-semitism is well documented in his own writings. His opinions infected Germany for generations, and culminated with the Nazis. (I'm not saying Luther was a Nazi... but the seeds of his hatred for Jews levened the whole lump)

As for Gibson's salvation, we can not judge the heart. However we can judge his own words, and his faith is NOT in the Jesus of the Bible. His faith is in the ordinances of the Catholic Church, and in Mary.

Also, if Mel knew his Bible he would cease calling his problem "the disease of alcoholism" and call it what God calls it: the sin of drunkeness. Not until people call sin sin can they really expect help from God. Mel doesnt need to "return to health" as he calls it... he needs to get right with God.

... as we all do from time to time.

Krispy

Rublue,

Within the bigger picture here, this is an interesting and important point to me.

I have said & done things countless times while drunk,...You brain is impaired, you say things you do not necessarily truly believe.

I'm sure you've heard of the phrase "three-beer honesty" or similar. Thankfully I've not had to battle with this issue personally so I am curious as to what others might have to say. I guess I've assumed that alchohol acts like a kind of 'truth serum', breaking down our social behavior, causing us to speak uninhibited about what's really on our minds. Is this an incorrect perception?

Much thanks brother for sharing from your own precious walk with the Lord regarding this painful issue.

MC

As for me I wont even read any reports of what Mel Gibson said. It is not my business to study his faults, just as it is not your busines to study mine. I am not implying that we do not acknowledge that he has faults.

That is where people lose their true Christ-like love. They begin to study the faults of others rather than first observing their own. Some know their own faults but seek to justify them by pointing our bigger faults in others. It is so easy for people to believe and dwell on the wrong things that others have done, rather than the good things. A person can do 1 million righteous deeds and a single unrighteous one and the devil will use that single unrighteous deed to eclipse all the righteous ones done.

Satan knows how the mind of man works. People like to know the faults and flaws of others so that it makes them feel good about themself. You can see this in a the gossip websites, papers, magazines and tabloids.

We should not allow satan to manipulate our minds and perspectives. We should see people the way God sees them and not the way the world does.

Has Mel Gibson believed on the name of the Lord unto salvation, maybe so; does he have the mind of Christ, obviously not, but neither does a majority of "Christians" in the church. What should we do? Pray for him and stand in the gap on his behalf. Help bear his burden through prayer.

See, look at what the devil has done.

"The ABC television network has pulled a miniseries about the Holocaust it was developing with Mel Gibson 's production company, the Wall Street Journal reported Tuesday, quoting an unidentified representative for the network."

"The incident has raised questions about the future of projects Gibson and his Icon Productions company are working on, like the ABC television miniseries based on a memoir about a Dutch Jew during World War II, the newspaper said."
quoted form Newsmax

{quote} Rublue
Alcohol is a DRUG!! As a recovering alcoholic, I have said & done things countless times while drunk, only to feel the fool & remorse later. You brain is impaired, you say things you do not necessarily truly believe.

Rublue, I went to the altar and not AA over thirty years ago. Jesus set me free. I would never say that I am a recovering alcoholic. I say I’m free. The sin of drunkenness was one of the sins that made me realize that I was a sinner. It wasn’t until I admitted this sin that I could be set free from it.
.................................................

{quote} MC
I guess I've assumed that alcohol acts like a kind of 'truth serum', breaking down our social behavior, causing us to speak uninhibited about what's really on our minds. Is this an incorrect perception?

Mike, To some degree this is true, however, a person who is drunk can think that something is real, when it is not. Maybe this is because the person is predisposed to delusion or maybe hypnotic drug use with alcohol use plays a part in this. Years ago, I experienced this.
.................................................

I believe that the Lord has shown me that there will be people on the other side who I would not think would be there, and that there are people who I would expect to be there that won’t be found. I don’t know if Mel is saved or not, but I’m sure that if the Lord puts him or anyone else on my mind for prayer that I should pray for that person.
.................................................

{quote} Paul West
I believe that our salvations are partly the result of someone praying for us while we were yet heathen.

Paul, I have a close friend that believes this. Do you have any scriptures that make you think this? This may be true but I can’t think of any.

GaryE

Many thanks Gary for your answer and your testimony.

MC

im still appaled at some terrible theology going on.....

listen peoples.......NO hater NOR blasphemor NOR drunkard shall enter in the kingdom of God.....yeh???

1Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

What did that verse say again?

Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

About blasphemy.....again

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

And in a past post i wrote some verses concerning hate......My only sugestion to you if one of these is present in your life.....REPENT in the name of Jesus.

If u think that u can hate Jews (and go to heaven), you need to repent.

If u think that u can be a drunkard (and go to heaven), you need to repent.

If u think that u can be a blasphemor (and go to heaven), you need to repent.

1John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

God bless u all.

Krispy in my opinon if u had hate in your heart u where still in darkness.......just like me when i thought i was saved for a while whilst i still hated jews and other people........

ciao

First I would like to say, I found God at the altar not AA. This is explained in my intro post. And I can only speak for myself, and the 1000's of alcholics seeking recovery I have come in contact with over the past decades. Alcohol is not a truth serum!! It does lower your inhibitions, so therefor you might say something to someone (boss) you might not normally say. But there is a line you cross the more you consume. I call this the line of no return. I myself was a blackout drunk. Meaning just that. I wold drink to a point where I did not remember hours to days. In this extremely dangerous state of mind, a person may say or act just STUPID, for lack of no better word. The worse part is you truly have no clue or memory of what happened during that drinking episode. The following guilt and remorse of your unknown actions are truly horrible. As a person who is insaine, you can not hold that person responsible for their actions while in this state. Yes, this person must be held accountable for letting his/her self get to that point. But to serioulsy take to heart what this person said or did, as what they were just holding in is not reality. And yes, if a crime is committed they must pay the price. Alcohol is a serious drug. And people with the DISEASE of alcoholism should be prayed for just as a person with cancer, or any other disease. A disease is defined as a illness that is both progressive and fatal. This is not just my opinin, it is fact. God Bless All!!!

Paul, I have a close friend that believes this. Do you have any scriptures that make you think this? This may be true but I can’t think of any.

Hi Gary,

Sure, I have plenty of scriptures, though you may not accept these scriptures because they do not say word-for-word: "salvations are partly the result of someone praying for us while we were yet heathen." But I believe God's will to pray for certain unsaved people is implied throughout the Old and New Testaments. God wants us to pray for the lost. Are you unsure that our salvations are largely due to the part of someone interceeding for us? If the term "pray for the lost" is not found in the Bible, word-for-word, does it mean we are to eschew praying for the lost? And if we pray for the lost, could not their salvations be, at least in part, an answer to the prayer of the intercessor?

Now, I'm sure that you are not against praying for the lost. You probably have unsaved loved ones that you pray for. If you read my statement more closely, you will notice I said [i]partly[/i] the result of someone praying for us. I didn't say it was "always" the result. I know that God can do all things. Yet I'm sure people prayed for me while I was a sinner. And even if no fleshly man or woman prayed for me, I believe Jesus Christ prayed for me. I know William Tyndale prayed, "Lord, Open the King of England's eyes!" as he was being chained to the stake. If the King of England got saved, would it not be "partly" the result of God answering Tyndale's prayer? If you talk to people who are saved and radically serving God, many times you will discover that there was an old grandmother or brother or sister or church family earnstly praying, supplicating God for sometimes years and years before God granted their salvation. Think of all the people soundly saved during the Great Awakening and during Finney's revivals. Do you have any IDEA how much prayer and prevailing intercession went into their salvations? If you're not saved, I venture to say that someone, somewhere is probably praying for your soul right now. And the intercessors do not even have to know you personally. Do the South Koreans know by name the millions and millions of Japanese souls that are brought before God's throne daily in petition for their salvation?

The Israelites could thank Moses for their lives, as his pleadings on their behalf prevented God from slaying them. How about Paul on the ship? If it weren't for Paul knowing the Lord, the entire ship would have sunk and all aboad would have perished. Their lives were spared as result of one man's intercession with God. Now think of yourself, the relationship you have with God, your new life in Jesus Christ. Would it be presumptuous to say that because of someone's intercession you were granted repentance? The truth is, we don't know what goes on behind the scenes of each person's salvation.

Why would the Holy Spirit burden us to pray for certain heathen, if the resulting salvations would not be 'partly' the result of us praying for them?

Your servant in Jesus Christ,

Brother Paul

Scripture says we must all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. In light of this, will God say to Mel Gibson, well done good and faithful servant..., or will He say, depart from Me...
You answer that one yourself.

I was prayed for by my now best friend Julian, and all of his friends for months before I even came to the lord, so praying for someone can go a long way.

We need to be in prayer for the lost, and if we dont feel like it or led to, then something is wrong with your walk ( and I am speaking to everyone in general).

God Bless

Rublue,

I better double up on washing my hands so I don't catch a nasty bout of alcoholism. I am saying this to show the foolishness of labeling sin a disease.

Alcoholism is not a disease. Lust is not a disease. Bitterness is not a disease. Although they can all be fatal. The wages of sin is death.

I was addicted to Crack, Cocaine, and used a host of other narcotics for years. It was not a disease I caught somewhere. It was MY bad choices to start messing around with these substances. I started smoking and drinking when I was 11 yrs. old. I "progressed" from marijuana to hallucinogens to amphetamines and everything in between.

Thanks be to God that he delivered me from those vices.

It is the world around us that tries to tell us that addictions are a disease. If it were true that it were a disease that would remove all the culpability from us. And that is exactly what the world wants; to be absolved from guilt of their choices.

"Do not be deceived:
God cannot be mocked.
A man reaps what he sows.
The one who sows to please his sinful nature,
from that nature will reap destruction;
the one who sows to please the Spirit,
from the Spirit will reap eternal life."
Galatians 6:7

Murray

The Israelites could thank Moses for their lives, as his pleadings on their behalf prevented God from slaying them. How about Paul on the ship? If it weren't for Paul knowing the Lord, the entire ship would have sunk and all aboad would have perished. Their lives were spared as result of one man's intercession with God.

Yes, and Job too.

Job 42:8 "Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, and go to My servant Job, and offer up a burnt offering for yourselves, and My servant Job will pray for you. For I will accept him so that I may not do with you according to your folly, because you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has."

As well as Abraham, see Genesis 18. Of course Sodom was not saved, but but because of Abraham's standing in the gap, God was willing to have mercy on behalf of 10 righteous men in the city.

{quote} Steven

I myself was a blackout drunk. Meaning just that. I would drink to a point where I did not remember hours to days.

Hey Steven, isn’t it neat that all that past guilt has been buried and drown with Pharaoh and his army in the Red Sea. Those accusations from the enemy of past sins, though they are true, are buried with Christ and there is now no condemnation in Christ Jesus. Before God, all those sins have been blotted out or could we say blacked out. Through confession of sin and faith in Christ, God has a blackout of our blackouts.
.................................................

{quote} Paul

Sure, I have plenty of scriptures, though you may not accept these scriptures because they do not say word-for-word: "salvations are partly the result of someone praying for us while we were yet heathen.

This would probably be my answer if I was asked the same question.

I’m convinced that revival only comes through people praying for it. It may be that God’s grace to the lost is what puts that desire in the person praying, but in my opinion from reading revival history, revival comes through someone or usually many praying for a revival.

Quite a few people that I have prayed for in the past have apparently become Christians. The obituaries of two people who I had lost contact with had become members of churches. One friend of mine from the world that I prayed about 30 years ago became a Christian about 5 years ago. These are people that I either knew from county jail time or through alcoholism. They were, like myself at the time of being around them, in sin and very blind to it. Another person who I prayed for years ago, just before his death, prayed the sinners prayer with a friend while I was there. Still I don’t have what I would call proof scriptures on this subject and don’t believe that my wanting someone to become saved is going to cause them to be saved.

Usually, when I pray for a certain person who is blinded to sin, I pray for that person to be able to see and have a fair chance to respond to the Lords words to them.

Yes I know the drug scene well starting at 13, back in the 70's for decades of Hell on earth. I am not here to argue or debate. But to make light of addiction to double up on washings your hands, I just don't know. Guess I should not post and just read and listen. I am obviously seriously off on the scripture I study, as well as my career working in recovery. God Bless All!!!

murdog wrote:
Rublue,

I better double up on washing my hands so I don't catch a nasty bout of alcoholism. I am saying this to show the foolishness of labeling sin a disease.

Alcoholism is not a disease. Lust is not a disease. Bitterness is not a disease. Although they can all be fatal. The wages of sin is death.

I was addicted to Crack, Cocaine, and used a host of other narcotics for years. It was not a disease I caught somewhere. It was MY bad choices to start messing around with these substances. I started smoking and drinking when I was 11 yrs. old. I "progressed" from marijuana to hallucinogens to amphetamines and everything in between.

Thanks be to God that he delivered me from those vices.

It is the world around us that tries to tell us that addictions are a disease. If it were true that it were a disease that would remove all the culpability from us. And that is exactly what the world wants; to be absolved from guilt of their choices.

"Do not be deceived:
God cannot be mocked.
A man reaps what he sows.
The one who sows to please his sinful nature,
from that nature will reap destruction;
the one who sows to please the Spirit,
from the Spirit will reap eternal life."
Galatians 6:7

Murray

One friend of mine from the world that I prayed about 30 years ago became a Christian about 5 years ago.

Praise God for this! I've been praying for my brother - a Buddhist - for about 5 years now. Those prayers you prayed 30 years ago - God didn't forget them. I look so forward to the day when my faith becomes sight. Brothers and sisters, we must pray and pray and fight and wrestle and plead and tread the powers of darkness down as we interceed for the souls of men and women. We must never give up the fight. It took Gary 30 years to see God's manifest answer. Hallelujah - what's thirty years measured up against eternity? God answers prayer and saves to the uttermost - but everything is on His timetable.

Thank you for the inspiring testimony!

Rublue,

I am not here to argue either. I am clarifying that alcoholism is not a disease. If you believe differently, I trust the Holy Spirit will guide you and me into all truth.

Don't stop posting because of something I said.
We are meant to sharpen one another as iron does iron.

As someone who lived a life of addiction, I would be the last person to make light of it. I went to jail, I was homeless, I was insane, I was penniless, and I was hated.

Please don't be misguided into calling sin a disease.

In Love,

Murray

WHO HERE IS GOD? DO NOT JUDGE!!!

Which of you is perfect, holy, and without sin? Which of you can look into the heart of a person and determine the true motives? Who can do this?

There is only one who is worthy of such. There is only ONE who can save a person.

It is the decision of God to decide who is saved and who is not. We are granted God's grace, God's favor. No one is saved by your favor. Only God can determine the actions of a person.

No person on earth has the capacity, capability, or authority to say who is Christian and who is not!! You cannot judge a book by it's cover!!

Did not Abraham decieve Pharoh? Did not King David commit adultery? Did not Moses sin when he brought forth water from the rock in anger? Did not Peter deny Christ three times? And what of you? Are you without sin?

None of us can say who is Christian and who is not. None of us can say who is saved and who is not. We can only observe the fruit, and can only see a person's actions.

While a person's actions may speak to the condition of their heart, it does not tell all. And just because a person is decieved and walking in blindness under a false teacher, a false doctrine, or false organization, does not mean their heart is in the right place. There are many whose hearts are right, but minds are decieved.

We can warn others of ungodly actions, we can point out a person is a bad Christian, we can say a person is not properly following Christ, we can point people to the teachings of Christ, but only God can say a person is not saved. Only God can say a person is a Christian or not. Only God!!!

Do not be so prideful or arrogant to think that in your limited earthly wisdom you can pass judgment just because you have seen the way a person acts. You cannot see all things, and even if God Himself had granted you such knowledge, you are not in a position to make such a declaration.

YOU ARE NOT GOD! STOP JUDGING!

And stop using scripture to justify this wickedness!

In Love and In Christ,

Blake

And people with the DISEASE of alcoholism should be prayed for just as a person with cancer, or any other disease. A disease is defined as a illness that is both progressive and fatal.

I understand the concern about calling alcoholism or sin a disease - because that could imply that there is nothing to repent from.

the foolishness of labeling sin a disease.

Isaiah pronounced a dreadful diagnosis on the rebellious nation of Israel by referring to them as a wounded body:

Your whole head is injured,
your whole heart is afflicted.
From the soul of your foot to the top of your head,
there is no soundness -
only wounds and welts and open sores,
not cleansed or bandaged or soothed with oil.Is. 1:5,6

Jeremiah also pronounced an utterly hopeless diagnosis on the rebellious nation of Israel:

"Your wound is incurable,
your injury beyond healing.
There is no one to plead your cause,
no remedy for your sore, no healing for you." Jer. 30:12

"Since my people are crushed, I am crushed;
I mourn and horror grips me.
Is their no balm in Gilead?
Is their no physician there?" Jer. 8:21,22

Jeremiah spoke about heart disease (spiritual of course):

"The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure." Jer. 17:9

For sure, you here who have shared about your struggle with substance addictions know literally how true the following verse is:

The wages of sin is death.

Sin is a terminal condition. Bandaids and aspirin don’t work. Yet people offer remedies like that:

“Prophets and priests alike all practice deceit.
They dress the wound of my people
as though it were not serious.
Jer. 6:15.

The prophets warned them that their remedies wouldn’t work:

"... [they are] not able to cure you,
not able to heal your sores." Hosea 5:13

The prophets also foreshadow a remedy was coming that would work:

"...the leaves are for healing..." Ezekiel 47:12

"I will restore you to health and heal your wounds..."
Jer. 30:17

"By his wounds we are healed." Is. 53:5

The cure is a heart transplant.

"I will give you a new heart
and put a new spirit in you.
I will remove your heart of stone
and give you a heart of flesh.
And I will put my Spirit in you
and move you to follow my decrees..." Ez. 36:26
"I will put my law in their minds,
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God and they will be my people.
For I will forgive their wickedness
and remember their sins no more."
Jer. 31:33,34

This cure is available to anyone!

"The tree of life ...and the leaves of the tree
are for healing of the nations.Rev. 22:3

Sadly, many refuse the cure, and so on the final day, they will have no remedy:

"... in that day he will cry out, "I have no remedy." Is. 3:7

You may be rolling your eyes by now. But wait, I add one more point and it relates to Murray’s comment:

If it were true that it were a disease that would remove all the culpability from us.

It’s sort of like, this: It doesn’t make much difference if you have cancer because you smoked recklessly or because of pollution or a congenital weakness. But it makes a huge difference if you accept or reject the cure. And THAT is the responsibility of each sinner. Doesn't that give hope to the alchoholic?

Does that make sense?

Diane

Diane,

I understand where you are going with that line of reasoning. The key words used in the scriptures you cited were "injury, wound, etc.", which are distinctly different than a disease.

You nailed it when you said "calling it a disease, implies there is nothing to repent from"(my paraphrase). Which is exactly my point.

The sinful nature is like a disease, especially to our spiritual well being. But calling each sin itself a disease implies you do not have a choice to give in to it or to abstain.

Murray

"calling it a disease, implies there is nothing to repent from"

Murray, This is not MY thought, just what some fear would happen by using health-related words to express a sin condition.

I see no difference in any of the health related terms – illness, disease, malady, injury, wound. Which ever way, the sinner still has the responsibility of accepting the cure. That IS repentance. Repenting from certain sinful behaviors - ie, stopping them - just won’t cure the disease. I know some former alcoholics who stopped drinking and then became workaholics. They still needed the cure.

A recovered alcoholic who works with alcoholics once said to me that he sees far better and more permanent results by referring to alcoholism as an illness. I guess that is because you have to recognize the utter hopelessness of your condition before you are ready to accept the cure. So long as you still believe that maybe YOU can fix yourself up, you will remain in bondage.

Does that make sense? Don’t you think that God had a good reason to refer to sin as a fatal malady? Why not read through those verses again, and see it they twig in a different way now.

Diane

Diane,

I did see what you meant.

Usually with a disease, the sufferer doesn't have a choice to have it. The scriptures you chose use the words wound and injury. Which to me sound self inflicted.

My pastor always says the problem is never the problem. After I stopped using drugs, alcohol, and cigarettes, I started eating too much. I still had a hole to be filled inside me. No drug, no food, no sex could fill it. It took me a while to figure out what was missing. I was trying to substitute the joy of things for the joy of the Lord. It will never work.

P.S. Mel Gibson just hasn't entered into the Fullness of God yet. (This is me trying to stay on track.)

Murray

Diane,

I am not just trying to be right. I totally understand where you are coming from.

Since I was an addict, I feel I understand the desperate deceitfulness that comes with addiction. And believe me if I could have blamed my addictions on anything or anyone I would. In the beginning of getting straight, I told people I was an addict because my dad drank, or because my brother died, anything but admit that I made a choice to use drugs. Day after day. Yes drugs are addictive. So is pornography. Let's face it pleasure feels good. For a moment. And then what are we left with. More emptiness.

I believe it is dangerous to label sin a disease. If it leaves the person who is sinning feeling like he never had a choice to do right or to do wrong. And most of all that he is a victim and is to be pitied.

Murray