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judging

E
enid

From time to time whilst reading different posts I see people saying that we are not to be judgmental. Can I ask why not? Who says this?
Instead, they say we are supposed to love, because God is love, and He is. It is God who has told us to judge. John 7v24 'Do not judge according to apperance, but judge with righteous judgment'. Some use Matt 7v1 and say 'judge not', which it does say, but it doesn't stop there. Verse 2 tells us what judgment to use. Righteous, godly judgment. We judge according to God's word, His standard not ours.

This same God of love hates wickedness and punishes the wicked. Psalm 11v5-6 says...but the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates. Upon the wicked He will rain coals, fire and brimstone and a burning wind shall be the portion of their cup.

Don't want this to be too long. Hate long articles. Still God is God, His word is to be obeyed, or ignored, at our own peril. There is no middle road. God bless.

S
sermonindex

There is an excellent book called "Who Are You To Judge" by Erwin W. Lutzer that addresses this very issue.

Lutzer is the Senior Pastor at Moody Church in Chicago, and this book is about discernment and biblical judging. It is a fantastic book.

I think you'd like it, Enid.

Krispy

E
enid

Thank you for the information about the book. Sounds good. God bless.

M
MrBillPro

I personally think that it might be the way we judge like in the words we use when being judge mental is were most of us struggle, like my Brother used to always tell me before he went to be with the Lord he use to tell me Bill "approach" is everything. He used this as an example, he said the pizza delivery guy can just walk up to your door knock on it and slam your pizza against the door and say you owe my $17.50 could you hurry I have other deliveries or he could knock on the door and say Mr. Bill here is your pizza just freshly made it's hot and I got it here ASAP just for you, we sincerely do appreciate your business, that will be $17.50 and here is a coupon for your next purchase, take care and have a Blessed day, see it's all about the approach we use in life. :-)

S
sermonindex

I think your may be asking the wrong question. Rather than simply saying should we judge or shouldn't we judge maybe we should ask, WHAT should we judge? According to the Scripture quoted from John 7:24 Jesus was rebuking those around Him for making the WRONG judgement. The Pharisees were continually interested in what the outward apperances of OTHER men were. Were they keeping the law fully? Did they have a godly appearance? So they would debate about the Sabbath, how they washed a cup etc. The ironic thing was that Jesus rebuked them for their external judgements and instead told them to worry about their own life and their own hearts(Matthew 7:1-5). Another time Jesus told the story of two men who were praying. One openly thanked God that he was not like other sinners and one acknowledged his sin before God. Jesus said the one who was humble and honest would be justified rather than the one who judged all the other people around him (Luke 18:11). Ultimately God looks at the heart and no person can judge that. Each one of us who have been born again of the Spirit of God have been shown mercy and mercy should be what we show others.

"For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved." John 3:17 NKJ

E
enid

1 Tim 3 tells us about the qualifications for a bishop, overseer or whatever you want to call that leader. He is not to be a novice, not puffed up, arrogant, if you like. Is he not being judged? He has to be judged, by others, to see if he fits the position. If not, he should not hold the position. 1 Cor 6v5 says...is there not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? We are to judge each other, using the word of God, not our own standard. Love does not ignore justice. God bless.

S
sermonindex

I think we are still talking about two different things here. Your 1 Corinthians reference is Paul actually rebuking the church in Corinth because they could not settle their differences without going before a court that had an unbelieving judge...This needs to be read fully in context. Paul exhorts these Corinthians in verse 7 & 8 that they would have been better off allowing another brother to cheat them and forgive them settling their differences, rather then bringing them into the courts before unbelieving judges.

As Christians we must have discernment. There are times where we are called upon to have discernment in circumstances or situations. Obviously I have to have good discernment in order to elect an overseer. But in that context I'm not passing my own personally judgment on that person as much as I am examining the Fruit of the Spirit in their lives or the lack their of.

I guess the better question is what would the purpose the judgement your talking about serve?

S
sermonindex

Whoops...wasn't done yet. I think the problem becomes when we as believers judge those "outside" the church. Your right that we are called to judge those inside the church. In 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 Paul says we should judge those inside the church who are caught in different sins like coveteousness, immoral or drunkard. In that context we should judge.

Blessings!

R
roadsign

"Judge carefully",
"Do not judge",
"Judge between your servants",
"Stop passing judgment on one another",
"Judge for yourself",
"make a right judgment"…

maybe we should ask,WHAT should we judge?
Not only that; perhaps we should also ask, “According to the Bible, how are we to judge?” or “What’s the difference between good and bad judging?”

For what it’s worth, that is discussed further here:

[url=http://www.thewayback.net/articles/JUDGING/1developing.htm]Judging - the difference between good and bad judging [/url]

Diane

O
OverSeer

There are definitely categories of judgment. There is the category of the wrong kind of judgment that we are not to practice - "Judge not, that ye be not judged" (Matthew 7:1). But there is also the category of the right kind of judgment that we are to practice - "Beware of the false prophets" (Matthew 7:15), "Judge not according to the appearance (that's the wrong kind), but judge righteous judgment (that's the right kind)" (John 7:24).

The problem comes in when we call the wrong kind of judgment, "good" and the right kind of judgment, "evil." "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter" (Isaiah 5:20).

This was happening also in Jesus' day. The Pharisees practiced the wrong kind of judgment - they condemned the common man and called them accursed because, "this people who knoweth not the law are cursed" (John 7:49). The Pharisees were also guilty of judging by appearance which is the wrong kind of judgment - "He answered and said unto them, 'When it is evening, ye say, it will be fair weather; for the sky is red. And in the morning, it will be foul weather to day; for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but ye cannot discern the signs of the times?" (Matthew 16:3). Because the Pharisees and others judged by appearance, they called the Son of God, "Belzebub." "If they have called the master of the house Belzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?" (Matthew 10:25). They spoke well of the false prophets (Luke 6:26) and persecuted and killed the true prophets (Matthew 5:11-12). They judged by appearance (the wrong kind of judgment) but didn't make a righteous judgment (the right kind of judgment) based on God's Word - or else they would have known the true prophet from the false prophet and they would have known the Son of God from Belzebub!

http://www.devcobaptist.org/templates/System/details.asp?id=31831&PID=372703

Grace and peace
Olan

R
roadsign

Something that just occurred to me regarding this topic- judging:

Yes, it is important that we become good judges, but what we do with our observations is another story. I ask, Do we always need to point out the bad and the wrong, or can we just show the better way?

I once read in a book for piano teachers: When you see a student doing something wrong, don’t mention what they are doing wrong. That is not the focus. Instead, explain the right way to do it – and DEMONSTRATE it. Then acknowledge their efforts when they do it right.

I think that many scriptures would back up that idea:

“Let us consider how we may spur one another on to love and good works…” Heb. 10:24

Can you think of more?

It’s easy to tell someone what they are doing wrong, but it is much harder to explain and demonstrate the good. I am guilty of this – even in my posts here. For years I have had a tendency to be critical – which is really a misuse of my judgments (though they may be good). Criticism just deflates and discourages people. Or it stirs them towards defensiveness. It doesn’t help them know a better way. And it doesn’t help them get there.

With God’s help, I would like to move on from my initial observations and judgments and spur others towards growth and maturity. But before I can do that, I have to learn to be a fair and discerning judge. (After all, if I can't see what's the problem, I can't offer the right alternative)

Diane

O
OverSeer

Yes, it is important that we become good judges, but what we do with our observations is another story. I ask, Do we always need to point out the bad and the wrong, or can we just show the better way?

I believe you have gotten to the heart of the matter with this statement and question. This is what Matthew 7:1-20 is all about - the wrong kind of judgment and the right kind of judgment.

We have both responsibilities: we must protest against reprobates (like Jesus and John the Baptist who called the reprobate religious leaders, "Brood of vipers and hypocrites") and we must spur one another on to love and good works (like Jesus teaching Nicodemus - a Pharisee).

This means we need discernment. How do we get discernment? Jesus answered that question in Matthew 7:7-8 - "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened to you: for every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened." See also as a parallel Proverbs 2:1-11 to see that Jesus' instructions were not just a generalization on prayer but a particularization for obtaining the discernment necessary for making the right kind of judgment - we do not have the ability or perogative in ourselves.

Grace and peace
Olan

R
roadsign

we must protest against reprobates

Do you mind sharing a scripture reference of this command?
Diane

R
roadsign

How do we respond to the one whom we judge as evil (reprobate)?

Jesus taught:
“Do not resist an evil person” Matt. 5:38
The Greek word is anthistami, meaning: oppose, stand against, resist, withstand

"Do not rebuke a mocker, or he will hate you." Prov. 9:8


Jesus said, “If any will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off.’ What words? Jesus had sent the disciples out into the villages with these instructions: “As you go, preach this message: The kingdom of heaven is near. Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demon…. Stand against sin (NOT!)”

Jesus taught, “You are the salt of the earth. ... You are the light of the world. Let your light shine before men.” I suspect that if we are not preaching the good news, healing the sick, driving out demons, or raising the dead, then perhaps we have lost our saltiness, and we are no longer salt and light to the world. Then when we condemn the evil person, we are in the wrong. We have a log in our eye because we ourselves have failed to be salt and light to them, and are blinded by our hypocrisy (our log.

Jesus said, “In the same way you judge others, you will be judged.” In other words, if in our judgments we “stand against” the reprobate, God will stand against us. This is exactly how Jesus and John the Baptist (God’s spokesman) handled the Pharisees: God’s hand was heavy against them, and they had asked for it. They had been heavy-handed in judgment of many sinners. They had damaged a lot of souls through their bad judgments. They gouged many eyes while trying to remove their specks (sins).

In Romans 2 Paul explained this same principle to the religious Jews: “You who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself.” (It’ll come back on you!)

It seems like Jesus, John the Baptist, and Paul reserved their strongest rebukes for the religious leaders. So, maybe those are the ones we should be standing against today. After all, many are leading their congregations straight to hell.

Yet Paul seemed to be extremely careful about his judgments against the leaders – well except one time – when he was cornered. He used a perfectly legitimate OT term to speak against the hypocrisy of the high priest. Apparently this was not well received, and Paul was told so in no uncertain terms: You dare to insult God’s high priest?” Paul did not get defensive, but instead said, “I did not realize that he was the high priest; for it is written; ‘Do not speak evil about the ruler of your people” Acts 23:5

This blows me away! Paul had NOT been speaking evil of the high priest. He gave a perfectly legitimately warning of divine judgment, saying, “God will strike you (honest warning of judgment) you whitewashed wall (honest picture of their hypocrisy).” When Paul felt cornered, he said something that was against his better judgment.


“Do not resist an evil person”

“Bless those who persecute you.”

Diane


O
OverSeer

God speaks to us in the Bible through precepts (explicit teachings - fully and clearly expressed) and principles (implicit teachings - not expressly stated; implied). Jesus taught the [i]principle[/i] of the resurrection to the Sadducees from Exodus 3:6 where the resurrection isn't explicitly taught but implicitly taught. Jesus even expected the Sadducees to understand the principles of Scripture - "But regarding the resurrection of the dead, [b]have you not read what was spoken to you by God[/b]: 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living" (Matthew 22:31-32).

Jesus also did the same thing with the Pharisees. He used the principles of Scripture to prove His obedience to God's word of which He was being accused of disobeying (see Matthew 12:1-14).

That "we must protest against reprobates" is not a precept but a principle - one to which we have the examples of the prophets, the Lord Jesus, and the apostles.

John the Baptist - the greatest prophet that ever lived - protested against the reprobate religious leaders, so that he could prepare the way for the coming of the Lord. He labeled the deceivers so that others could beware (Matthew 3:7-10).

Jesus protested against the reprobate religious leaders of His day and even warned of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees (Matthew 16:6; 23:1-33).

Paul protested against reprobates and even called names (2 Timothy 2:16-18)

John - the apostle of love - protested against reprobates and even called names (3 John 9-10).

Poison needs to be labeled. That is the purpose behind the principle of protesting against reprobates. It is not loving to leave dangerous chemicals unlabeled and neither is it loving to leave dangerous deceivers unlabeled.

Part of guarding the flock (Acts 20:28-30) is the principle of pointing out dangerous deceivers.

Grace and peace
Olan

S
sermonindex

Olan you said:

reprobate religious leaders

"religious leaders"....Brother, thats it right there....lemme tell ya something as the Spirit leads me, I'm done with two things:

1. religion, the empty form of Godliness.

2.judging others, which to me is to pronounce
His judgement upon others, whether in or out of the Church, that is the Body of Christ.

Am I called to "taste" which is good, oh yes sir, if a fruit is rotten, you aint going to be eating it. You throw it away, which I guess is another way of saying "to discern". Taste of the Lord for He is good, the Fruit of the Spirit is sweet.


I'm done judging others, I'd rather live my life on my knees praying for them instead.

God bless you in Alabama, bartle

R
roadsign

That "we must protest against reprobates" is not a precept but a principle -

Olan, Are you saying that we should put implicit deductions ahead of Jesus’ explicit commands?

Diane

S
sermonindex

I wrote this some time ago to tackle this question:

There are two types of judgment in the bible. There is hypocritical judgment, which Jesus condemns (Matt 7). And there is righteous judgment, which Jesus commanded (John 7:24).

Matthew chapter 7 is talking about the qualifications for judging. Jesus clearly says in verse 5 that "hypocrites" are not qualified to judge. He says you must remove the plank in your own eye before removing anything from someone else's. But once a Christian has repented and cleaned up his life, he is then qualified to call others to repent and to clean up their lives too.

John 7:24 says we are to "judge with righteous judgment." Jesus said, "My judgment is righteous." (John 5:30) A Christian is not to declare his own personal judgment but rather he is to declare the righteous judgment of God!

So what is righteous judgment? God's judgment is that adulterers, fornicators, idolaters, homosexuals, thieves, murders, blasphemers, covetous, drunkards, etc will have their part in the burning lake. (Revelations 21:8) That is the righteous judgment of God.

Because many do not want to hear the righteous judgment of God, they attempt to say "judge not". They did the same to Lot in Sodom in Genesis 19:9. But God's righteous judgment is coming, and so God's righteous judgment must be declared!

Scriptures: Matthew 7:1-5, John 7:24, John 5:30, Revelations 21:8. Genesis 19:9

O
OverSeer

Bartle:

Thanks for the blessing. May God bless you where you are.

Reprobate religious leaders were responsible for leading Israel into apostasy just as reprobate religious leaders will be responsible for leading the church into apostasy. These last days are filled with those who have a form of godliness but have denied its power. That's what makes discernment all the more necessary.

Grace and peace
Olan

O
OverSeer

Diane:

I am not saying that we put implicit deductions ahead of explicit commands. An implicit deduction (command in principle form) is neither a greater command nor a lesser command than an explicit command. One does not negate the other - both are to be obeyed. Just as we are to obey both the commandment to "judge not lest ye be judged" and to "make a righteous judgment", we are also to obey "let us consider how we may spur one another on to good works", and to "mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple" (Romans 16:17-18).

Those truths don't contradict one another but balance one another. Without balance we would be either so accepting and naive that we would allow deceivers into the fellowship (see 2 John 7-11) or we would be so rejecting and arrogant that we wouldn't even allow in the true man of God (see 3 John 9-10). Discernment is needed!

Implicit principles will not contradict explicit precepts but the two will balance one another. It is possible to spur one another on to good deeds (explicit precept) and to protest against reprobates (implicit principle) in order to guide and guard those whom you are spurring on.

Grace and peace
Olan

R
roadsign

protest against reprobates (implicit principle) in order to guide and guard those whom you are spurring on.

I guess it all depends where we place our focus - on the heretic or the saints; ie, do we obsess over the heretic, or do we give our energy to the Boby?

For sure we must guard against heresies. That was one of Paul's primary purposes for writing the epistles. He taught truth in order to help believers build discernment. He emphasised the need to grow in the knowledge of God and be wise thinkers. That's the best protection against heresies and false teachers.

"Judge for yourself",
"make a right judgment"…

Of course, we know that no one advocated protest marches and petitions. After all, we'll never be able to fight off all the reprobates. We'd miss a lot of them for sure - especially the ones who most closely resemble the authentic.

Jesus ate with sinners, yet Paul warned, "Have nothing to do with them... they are the kind who worm their way into homes ... " 2 Tim. 3:5 Clearly, we need to have a good "sniffer", or we will eat with the sinners we should be avoiding, and we will avoid the sinnners we should be eating with. After all, the ones who revolt us the most are the likely ones we should be inviting for dinner, but the ones who charm us the most are likely the very ones we should be fleeing from.

"Teach me knowledge and GOOD judgment." Ps. 119:66
"The spiritual man makes judgments about all things."1Co.2:15

"…so that you may be able to discern what is best." Phil. 1:9
"then you will be able to understand
what is right and just and fair." Prov. 2:9


Jesus said, "Do not resist an evil person."

Paul said, "Do not be overcome by evil, but ovecome evil with good." Rom. 12:21

I fear that many professing Christians have become too cozy with the word, "against" .


Diane

O
OverSeer

My question is: can we stand "for truth" without standing "against" falsehood? To say that we can is to make a self-contradicting statement. We cannot focus on the saints and teach them truth without focusing on the folly of heretics because there are both positive truths and negative truths. God's word has a tremendous amount of verses dealing with heretics and their heresies. Why? Was it because the Holy Spirit "obsessed" over heretics? Or was He actually giving "energy to the Body" and teaching them the knowledge necessary for their well-being? It all comes back to balance - both aspects have to be done - we have to teach both the positive truths and the negative truths or we cannot be balanced and we cannot proclaim the whole counsel of God.

It is possible to become too cozy with the word [b]against[/b] but it is also possible to become too cozy with the word [b]for[/b] (see 2 John and 3 John).

Of course, we know that no one advocated protest marches and petitions.

Yes! That is right! We can protest without marches and petitions - just like Jesus, the prophets, and the apostles.

"Then the prophet Jeremiah said unto the prophet Hananiah (the false prophet) in the presence of the priests, and in the presence of all the people that stood in the house of the Lord...The prophets that have been before me and before thee of old prophesied both [b]against[/b] many countries, and [b]against[/b] great kingdoms of war, and of evil, and of pestilence. The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet be known, that the Lord hath truly sent him...Then said the prophet Jeremiah unto Hananiah the prophet, 'Hear now, Hananiah; the Lord hath not sent thee; but thou makest this people to trust in a lie'" (Jeremiah 28:5, 8-9, 15).

Grace and peace
Olan

R
roadsign

we have to teach both the positive truths and the negative truths or we cannot be balanced and we cannot proclaim the whole counsel of God.

Many thanks, Olan, for the clarification. This is vastly different than trying to correct a fool, or resist an evil person, isn't it?

Diane

is also possible to become too cozy with the word for (see 2 John and 3 John).

So true, and yet we see a lot of this: zealously "standing against" an evil, while at the same time blindly condoning another evil.

....the log and the speck.....

Diane

O
OverSeer

This is vastly different than trying to correct a fool, or resist an evil person, isn't it?

Yes indeed!

Grace and peace
Olan

C
crsschk

Yet Paul seemed to be extremely careful about his judgments against the leaders – well except one time – when he was cornered. He used a perfectly legitimate OT term to speak against the hypocrisy of the high priest. Apparently this was not well received, and Paul was told so in no uncertain terms: You dare to insult God’s high priest?” Paul did not get defensive, but instead said, “I did not realize that he was the high priest; for it is written; ‘Do not speak evil about the ruler of your people” Acts 23:5

This blows me away! Paul had NOT been speaking evil of the high priest. He gave a perfectly legitimately warning of divine judgment, saying, “God will strike you (honest warning of judgment) you whitewashed wall (honest picture of their hypocrisy).” When Paul felt cornered, he said something that was against his better judgment.

Blows me away as well but.... Isn't this more centered on the matter of;

[i]‘Do not speak evil about the ruler of your people'[/i]

A similar accounting seems parallel with;

Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Without over reaching here, on the one hand and from what Paul recognized, was a matter of respect for [i]order[/i] and authority that is put in place by God Himself, regardless of the conduct of the leader(s). David and his respect and reactions towards Saul another great case in point.

Think we have a generation that has lost it's general respect for elders, for leaders, and as to the saints for an understanding that is presented throughout scripture, as example;

[i]Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;[/i] Eph 6:5,6

[i]Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief:[/i] Heb 13:17

[i]Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again; Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.[/i] Tit 2:9,10

The point of the matter driven home here;

[i]Show honor to everyone. Keep on loving the brothers, fearing God, and honoring the king. You household servants must submit yourselves to your masters with all fear, not only to those who are kind and fair, but also to those who are [u]unjust[/u].

For it is a fine thing if, when moved by your conscience to please God, you suffer patiently when wronged. What credit is it if you sin and patiently receive a beating for it? But if you suffer for doing good and take it patiently, you have God's approval. This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because Christ also suffered for you and [u]left an example for you to follow in his steps[/u].[/i] 1Pe 2:17-21

Used the ISV there for emphasis. There is a common disrespect that denies authority and order as set forth by the Lord despite all this. Think Bartle earlier grasped the heart of the matter where he stated he was done with judging ... This is a particular topic of interest that I have haltingly attempted elsewhere with the matter of "Fruit inspections", it has the same root issue. A [i]desire[/i] it seems to want a place of being judge, to find some backing out of scripture to subsist an authority not given but assumed...

[i]My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.[/i]
Jam 3:1

How quick to overlook this requirement. Another;

Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, [u]that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.[/u] 1Ti 6:1

The wonder is here, that this alone is not enough incentive. Far too often the whole matter of judging is in upholding some form of supposed rights [i]personally[/i], of defending ones self, of a peculiar [i]resentment[/i] to our self image or so called 'respectability' or as a guise to defend the [i]Lords honor[/i] ... (Hmmm, sounds like judging...)

Something that can be lost on all of us is to where we apply all these matters [i]first[/i] even as we attempt to spell them out...

[i]For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.[/i] 1Co 11:31,32

There is a great disconnect from what Jesus stated;

Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

[i]And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.[/i] Joh 8:15,16

[i]For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.[/i] Joh 3:17-19

[i]And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.[/i] Joh 12:47-49

I may be just as guilty here attempting to string together a handful of verses to make a point as one might do to support that which is of making a [i]right judgment[/i].

Perhaps it is this penchant that is based on a lot of predetermined processing. That is to say if we hold strictly to a 'list' of how to's and when to to 'judge' or not to judge we are putting the emphasis on our own natural ability and those things that affect [i]us[/i] as the springs of our motivation. By contrast a reactionary impulse can be our undoing if unchecked, a place for an indignation at the unjust treatment of others surely can be called for without a lot of processing, defending or explaining.

If anything I have learned in this life with the Lord it is to stop this penchant for climbing inside others heads and making a 'judgment'. To take a snapshot of other people and to allow ones self to form an opinion of [i]I know your type[/i] is very disturbing, we have seen it expressed here time and time again. It is far too often derived from a heart of bitterness, pride and the well stated emphasis that Paul spoke of, taking note of how he exemplified this matter of judgment;

But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. [u]Therefore judge nothing before the time[/u], until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

[u]For who maketh thee to differ from another?[/u] and [i]what hast thou that thou didst not receive?[/i] now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it? Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you. For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised. Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace; And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day. I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me. 1Co 4:3-16

I apologize for the length here. We make judgments and decisions constantly as we must do. We can 'judge' that which is stated and bring it to the test of what has been [i]spoken[/i] and preserved [i] as it is written[/i], the test of the Berean.

1Co 4:6 Now these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes; that in us ye might learn not to go [u]beyond the things which are written[/u]; [i]that no one of you be puffed up for the one against the other.[/i]

Why it is taking so much to just try and expound on the heart of the matter, I do not know. The thought train running in different directions. It is to express it without a conclusion but as an ongoing process.

Maybe Ravenhill can help here;

[i]Shame, shame on us! Jesus whipped some money changers out of the temple; but before He whipped them, He wept over them.[/i]

Seems that we misinterpret compromise with compassion, judging from the head with making a right judgment from the heart, that which is borne out of true concern rather than drawing attention to ourselves and our 'scriptural knowledge' of wanting to be known for such things.

A random thought came about yesterday listening to Kay Arthur on the radio discussing coloring in passages in her bible with different colors to denote certain aspects, attributes, what have you. All well and good and helpful... This musing came across;

At some point we come to a place where we are not just marking verses but are marked by them.

This matter of honesty I just cannot shake nor do I wish to, but to truly embrace it right across the board. It is displacing much that gives an appearance of what is being upheld as the face of Christianity in our day. It cuts across denominations and theological constructs. It challenges that which is being held back by either giving 'offense' as well as that which is 'defensive' or defending. The amount of venom inwardly sometimes and the forgotten commandment to [i]forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors[/i].

[i] Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? [/i]

Indeed, why not? How quick to go the route of judging instead ... How unlike our Lord who;

[i]He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:[/i]

Is it not strange how easily there can be an assimilation by imitation for those things that find a ready place of action in judging and condenming, a sort of quasy "[i]I am only doing what our Lord did[/i]" without recognizing that not everything the Lord did is ours to do, nor how far from His character and giving Himself away we have even yet to become like Him in spirit and in truth.

Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.

How does this fit into this matter of judging?

Am rambling at random here and asking my own set of questions to myself. Not everything needs be said or spoken. Many things held in abayence are often revealing when they are given that check of the Holy Spirit. [i]Casting down evil imaginations[/i] ... How many are there! How often the grip of recognition ...[i]Oh, how glad am I for keeping silent[/i]. Other times it is by way of embarrassment and humility that things must be learned, repented of and then absorbed not to repeat the same error. How this matter of judging seems to be one of the last in a long line of other more important issues of the heart, unless it is being overlooked and needs be addressed because of it's displacement.

It seems it ought to be more rare than commonplace.

To exhort or reprove has it it's own inherent challenges to the one bringing them forth ... [i]By what authority[/i]? Assumed? Presumed? And to what end? An end in itself? To be thought well of? How often a 'judgment' is just left dangling without any resolution, I.E.;

[i]I now rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye were made sorry unto repentance; for ye were made sorry after a godly sort, that ye might suffer loss by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation, a repentance which bringeth no regret: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.[/i] 2Co 7:9,10

Am becoming more and more convinced that this is to be our doing as well in all matters great and small;

[i]...he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak[/i]

And maybe the most important is [i]when[/i].

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