I am currently reading "Lectures on Revivals of Religion" and the third chapter as well as a lot of heart examination has lead me to believe that I do not have compassion on God or anyone else. To explain, I am numb to the feelings God and others share with me, concerning my sinfulness against them. I don't feel the weight of my sins against them. This causes me to be emotionally unattached to them, ultimately making me feel like any act of love I do is superficial causing me an inability to come to the deepest levels of love and intimacy. After all, how do you identify with someone until you can have compassion on their hurts that you may or may not cause them? How do you enter into the fullness of God when you don't feel the weight of your sins, that causes you to understand the greatness of God's grace - which causes you to have an insatiable longing to show God your gratitude? I don't feel as gratious for Jesus' sacrifice as I ought to. I want a revival in my life, but I don't know how to get past this. I don't know what to do to have compassion again. Any words of wisdom would be awesome.
I don't have compassion. Why?
I don't feel as gratious for Jesus' sacrifice as I ought to. I want a revival in my life, but I don't know how to get past this. I don't know what to do to have compassion again. Any words of wisdom would be awesome.
"Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father."
-Galatians 1:4
"And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father."
-Galatians 4:6
"I write unto you little children, because your sings are forgiven you for [b]his name's sake
-1 John 2:12
Be encouraged! spend time on your knees with your bible. Perserver therein and mercy shall come down.
Any personal experiences you can share? I am going to pray about this because it is huge. I understand what the verses are saying, but that understanding is not going to my heart. Is their any advice for bringing head knowledge into the heart?
ill have to tell you ive had some struggles whit this to, ive felt it and sometimes feelt nothing, i had it in my head but my heart wasent geting anything,
but i read my bible on my knees,
i cried out to god, again and again
and then one time i read the bible on my knees....
the tears started flowwing...i understood...i actually fully understood what christ did for me on the cross..and i must say i was filled whit a peace i cant really explain,
and now this isent my everyday experience, but i encurage you to do this, read the bible prayerfully, ask the holy spirit to show you the truth and make you understand... and be honest whit god, tell him,
and remember
Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
Heb 10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
gods peace to you
I strongly recommend you to highly to listen and read this compliation, the listen link is in that post:
[b]All To Jesus
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=11949&forum=34
I am listening to it right now.
I have done the body postures while praying and singing, but I am so analytical that all my focus turns on to what I am doing instead of God. Same with singing itself. I get so focused on my voice for whatever analytical reasons that I lose focus of God, so I don't sing through my mouth but inside my head most of the time. But then I get self-concious about that because people might think that I don't want to participate in church, and on and on and on. I analyze things to death. I want my body postures to be sincere and my words and feelings to be sincere as well.
dont worrie so much what others think, and over analytical is eazy to be, im no expert in giving advice, i can tell you what my bible tells people, trust in his word, stop the analys and just belive in the word, let the holy spirit lead you, sing to god not for men no matter what men might say, pray to god not for men to hear you, no matter if men like how you put a lot of words togheter in a nice sounding way.
and just obey what you read and meditate on it
And what has happend in my life is this when ive started to look at it this way, i feel and experience more of god.
and maybe a good sermon for you is
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=4489&commentView=itemComments
gods peace to you and i will pray for you
christian
mikeness,
It's good that you are so honest about the state you think you are in. I believe that the Lord has started to work in you.
I also believe that conviction is a work of the Holy Spirit, sometimes He uses Scripture, sometimes circiumstances.
Hmmhmm was right, time plays a factor, patience has to come into play. Apparently some of us use our knees often. Thank God for our healthy knees. :)
When a person humbles oneself before God, God often respond with mercy, and His mercy supply all that we lack in our spirituality.
It's a good sign I see in your post, just keep on studying and praying and fellowshiping with true Christians.
will pray, In Christ
mamaluk
Dear brother, has anyone ever identified with you in your hurts, and made sure that you received the healing your soul may need from sins others (may have) committed against you?After all, how do you identify with someone until you can have compassion on their hurts that you may or may not cause them?
I am interested in your confession of being 'analytical', because this is a common response when children have been through traumatic events, and later try to make sense of their lives. Also, self-consciousness can be a result of not having been given the freedom to make mistakes in a loving environment. Maybe it was a critical environment.
I believe an aspect of the answers you seek may lie in beginning to see yourself as valued by God, rather than having to perform for Him.
In other words, when you have experienced His compassion for your most intimate needs, you will find yourself released to give similar compassion to meet the needs of others.
I am interested in your confession of being 'analytical', because this is a common response when children have been through traumatic events, and later try to make sense of their lives. Also, self-consciousness can be a result of not having been given the freedom to make mistakes in a loving environment. Maybe it was a critical environment.
Dear Sister you have spoken wondrously to my heart. I too have been having the same problem as of late. It seems that I can put on the fake Jesus loves you attitude, but there is no real heart compassion.
Yet as I read your post, I began to realize that there are many times where I am so overly analyzing everything. Making sure that I am not going overboard, and somehow seeing how I could deserve HIS love. This perhaps has something to do with growing up in an environment where near perfection was the standard and any deviation from that meant failure. C's were not good enough, it had to be all A's. Then I ended up in a church environment that was under a very heavy handed man. There was no questioning him on anything, the other pastors went along with it as well, and anyone who questioned was rebellious or unsubmissive (guess which gruop I fell into).
After being in ministry there for three years, I had to leave after I was told that a teaching I did at a retreat conflicted with the Senior pastor. I asked them why because 95% of it was scripture and nothing else. I was told I could still attend, but could no longer serve. Within a month, men who had sworn to be brothers, and had spoken of their love for my wife and me would not even talk to me. My wife continued attending there only to be told that I was in rebellion, and that because I was not going to church there we were having financial problems.
Eventually they told her we should separate for a period of time so that I would see the error of my ways and return to fellowship there. Meanwhile I had found other believers and we were meeting once a week to study and pray(it was wonderful!).
Eventually though my dear wife let it slip that she did not hold to a pre-trib rapture view, and that was it for her. She was told she had to leave ministering to the youth, but she could still attend church there.
Sorry to ramble, but it is good to gelt this out.
Please pray for us as the feelings don't simply go away overnight, and it has been very hard on my wife.
Thank you, and brother Mike I apologize for spouting so much on your thread ;-)
Quote Dorcas
"has anyone ever identified with you in your hurts, and made sure that you received the healing your soul may need from sins others (may have) committed against you?"
too true, this brings out the issue of forgiveness, very tough, from the flesh's standpoint.
We hear "love another" a lot, but we see "love me only" far more.
hate to be so negative, sorry
mamaluk
I dont know if this helps, but I am a lot like you in analyzing everything to death. A good brother once gave this very wise advice to me:
Stop thinking.
That was it. It was just that simple. I objected with "But I feel like I cant."
He simply said "Yes you can." And that was it.
Love,
Joe
Sorry to ramble, but it is good to gelt this out.
Dear Roaringlamb and others, I think there might be more of us on these forums who've similar hurts. I too hope mike doesn't mind this sharing in his thread but I am glad you did.
For myself, I can also recognise this lack of sensitivity towards God and my own sins. And while I do feel much compassion for others, I recognise too a sort of numbness to it all. It could be from seeing day in and day out the rottenness of this evil world and the men and women crushed under it. It's one thing to know all the theology of sin and it's effects, to have all the answers as to why and how come;it's quite another to live, like a bruised reed under the crush of it, broken, but tenderhearted.
I have just finished reading the book [i] If prison walls could speak
My responses have become dulled.....Gone is the time when I reacted by banging on the door or even weeping.
Brothers we should pray for one another and remember too that we are not alone in suffering.
Love and grace be to all your hearts in Christ Jesus. And may God enlarge our hearts for more of Him.
Dear Patrick,Then I ended up in a church environment that was under a very heavy handed man. There was no questioning him on anything, the other pastors went along with it as well, and anyone who questioned was rebellious or unsubmissive
Thank you for sharing your bread.
I recognise aspects of what you went on to say, particularly what I've quoted of your response (which all blessed me, thank you), and of which I've heard similar accounts from even a teenager. I too have been effectively asked to leave or keep my mouth shut, once. By then, I was prepared, though, as it was not the first time I'd been under an abusive (false) shepherd.
The fact is, that you ended up under a heavy handed man because that's what you were used to. There was a certain security, initially, of feeling looked-after. But, as God worked in your life and called you to grow into dependence solely on Him and His word, you gradually found yourself unable to retain the approval of men, which had been so important in your childhood. It is the Lord's grace to you that you were 'released' from such shepherding. Praise and thank Him for it, as it has forced you deeper onto the road (Way) of Holiness, wherein even fools shall not err (Isa 35).
mamaluk mentioned forgiveness
to which I would say this - despite how un-pc it is and some might even say anti-scriptural. But, I speak from experience, so feel free to argue it out with others. I can only offer this angle, because this is what and how God led me through.... quite simply, that until one has been forgiven oneself, one may find it impossible to forgive.too true, this brings out the issue of forgiveness, very tough, from the flesh's standpoint.
In the light of what mamaluk quoted from me
my previous sentence may seem contradictory."has anyone ever identified with you in your hurts, and made sure that you received the healing your soul may need from sins others (may have) committed against you?"
Let me explain it this way. When we are young children, we don't realise how much we are being groomed for the adult world, but eventually we pick up on making our lives easier by complying. (This is something I always found very difficult to do consciously, because within the household in which I grew up, was a wicked person abusing the minors. Rebellion was the only way I could retain any semblance of control on what was left of my little life. It became a lifestyle for me. This is where the repentance eventually has to hit the road, and afterwards, being forgiven, one can begin to afford the same release to others.) At the same time as one is consciously dealing with whatever stress is being ministered, one is also (simultaneously) absorbing good and bad ways of thinking and dealing with living - whatever is filling the airways at home. I have been totally amazed by what I had picked up from the abusive personality with whom I grew up, which only came to light in my understanding, after that person's death. In fact, it was that death which helped me really understand and begin to [u]believe
I would also justify the order I experienced in other terms, some of which are based on the physical and emotional age at which trauma occurred. A child may be capable of instant obedience while being watched, but, obeying when one isn't being watched requires a different level of consciousness, which one literally has to grow into. Hurts which occurred at an age of greater dependency, are, I believe, healed by the pure compassion of God without any conditions. The more He knows we understood then, or need to understand now, in order to receive the full deliverance He knows we need and which He can give (we believe), the more likely He is to let us work through a much longer process (with Him), which is peppered with moments of insight, healing, repentance and forgiveness, and overall growth to the soul.
I sure hope that makes sense, and seems focused enough on the issues. If this leads to further discussion, I could say more. Let's stay real with each other here. Comapssion is such a vital part of true Christianity. It was compassion which rose in Jesus [i]often
Dear Mikeness. I love that you wrote on this subject! I used to be a regular here at SI, but now I just drop in from time to time and scan around . Your thread here caught my eye and then when I went back and read your original post, I was excited because this is exactly how my journey began. I can tell that you have been seeking God as much as you are able. And I'm excited to see that you are aware of your hardness of heart and that it matters to you.
First, let me say, that the day that I became aware that my heart was hard and there was nothing I could do about it, I was very sad. I didn't cry, but I was sad. I knew something was terribly wrong and I also knew that I could not fix it. I can distinctly remember how it happened. I had listened to a sermon that my pastor preached at church which had me on the edge of my seat. I was absolutely caught up as he described being a sergeant in the Army at an army base in the south. That was just prior to the Desert Storm. He told of how much his men under him liked him because he taught them how to pass tests well. His platoon was revered for making good grades, because he taught them how to cheat, basically. Then, he said, one day he was on a weekend leave and he was sitting in front of the television at his home when a news bulletin came on and said that all men assigned to this army base were to return immediately. He then watched a report of the beginning of the gulf war. He was sick. He said when he returned to his base, it was on lockdown. The gates were guarded and he had to show his id to get in. He said, in his heart, he knew, that America was going to war and that he had to lead a platoon of men to the battlefront and they were not prepared. He said, when he got back to the base, people were scrambling to pack up weapons on trucks for transport, but he started cramming manuals in boxes. He said his men were mad at him for making them lug these books to the desert.
Then, they were sent to the frontlines of the battle on the border of Iraq and Kuwait. He said they dug foxholes and were on the highest alert for months. He said the highest alert was where like 3/4ths of the men had to be awake and on ready 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. That meant that each man was only allowed to sleep 4 hours a day and when he did sleep, he was required to keep his clothes and boots on and his rifle by his side. Daryl said, every minute he had, he was pouring over manuals trying to figure out how to fire some of the weapons they had brought. He said, at one point, they took a big gun thing out of the box and it was wrapped in plastic and they couldn't even get the plastic off the thing. He said they looked like the three stooges just trying to unwrap it. He said, one day he was so tired and he decided that he had to get some rest, so he stripped down to his underwear and snuggled down into his sleeping bag, but it wasn't long until he was awakened from his deep sleep by a loud explosion which shook the ground. He said that, as he awoke, he could hear bullets whizzing by and it was mass chaos. He said he didn't have time to get dressed, he just ran to his foxhole in his underwear. He said it was dark and everyone was really scared and didn't know what had happened. They waited for several hours and, as daylight broke, a Hummer with an eagle on the side of it pulled up and a colonel got out. He said, "Who's in charge here?" My pastor said he had to get out of his foxhole and walk over in front of this man in his underwear. Turns out, the explosion was a mistaken friendly fire and this colonel just came out to tell them everything was ok. When he saw Daryl in his underwear, he just shook his head.
The message Daryl was preaching was on how unprepared we are as a church. I knew, as I listened to that story, that I was in my underwear in the middle of a real war, but I didn't feel much emotion. I knew that I should be on my face at the altar, weeping, but I wasn't. I wanted to weep and feel the burden, but I couldn't. I was saddened by my lack of passion. I was saddened by how many others around me seemed unmoved by this scenario.
I remember, on the way home from church, for the first time in my life, I realized, that, if God didn't do a miracle in my heart, I was doomed. I prayed a simple prayer. I pictured myself asleep, you know, like those times when your half asleep and you know that you need to get up, but you can't seem to drag yourself up out of it? I cried out to God and I said, "God, sound the alarm! Stick me with a cattle prod! Help me, Lord! Please, wake me up!" I felt desperate for something that I knew that I could not do, and, from that moment on, I just began to beg God to do it. That changed my life.
It didn't take long before I was getting up all hours of the day and night to pray. My prayers became this continual cry for God to do something in my heart that was real. And he has been doing it ever since. That was about 4 years ago. God took that woman who thought she was so spiritual and knew so much and took her apart until, all she was, was a garage full of pieces scattered all over the floor. Then, he dragged in this big trashcan and began to pick up my dismantled theology, piece by piece, and he would hold it up in front of me and he would show me what needed to go into that trashcan. We carried out huge garbage bags full of stuff. I have cried rivers and rivers. I have felt like I can't live through this. This past year has been the darkest, spiritual time I have ever lived through. There is a renewed sense of urgency in me at all times. And I've been humbled to the point, that I hardly have anything to say. You can ask anyone on SI, I don't talk anymore. This is the most I've had to say in a year!
So, thanks for listening to my ramblings.
"Call unto me, and I will answer thee."
Dian.
Brother,
I have not read the entire thread, so please pardon me if I am repeating what has been said.
When you find in your self a spiritual deficiency, all you have to do is talk to God about it. Tell him exactly what you think and believe and see. Having done that wait and let Him work in your heart to bring about this correction. But be warned and prepared: it likely will mean trials of the sort you did not envision. God will use trials to bring about correction in our lives. And be aware it will not happen overnight but it will be a process through which you may learn some patience.
BTW, I also have to regularly ask for a divine infusion of love, especially for the people I get weary of, those I prayed for so long with no visible results. This is life, brother.
ginnyrose
Dear brother, has anyone ever identified with you in your hurts, and made sure that you received the healing your soul may need from sins others (may have) committed against you?
I am interested in your confession of being 'analytical', because this is a common response when children have been through traumatic events, and later try to make sense of their lives. Also, self-consciousness can be a result of not having been given the freedom to make mistakes in a loving environment. Maybe it was a critical environment.
I believe an aspect of the answers you seek may lie in beginning to see yourself as valued by God, rather than having to perform for Him.
In other words, when you have experienced His compassion for your most intimate needs, you will find yourself released to give similar compassion to meet the needs of others.
I am reconciling over a decade of pain that has gone on since my dad has neglected to be a spiritual leader and a father who pursues his children.
Your words concerning me being analytical make sense and I will put some deep thought into that and the self-conciousness. I have never thought of those things in those ways.
dorcas wrote:After all, how do you identify with someone until you can have compassion on their hurts that you may or may not cause them?
to which I would say this - despite how un-pc it is and some might even say anti-scriptural. But, I speak from experience, so feel free to argue it out with others. I can only offer this angle, because this is what and how God led me through....
mamaluk mentioned forgivenesstoo true, this brings out the issue of forgiveness, very tough, from the flesh's standpoint.
Could you elaborate on this.
thank you for your story. I can greatly identify with what you are saying. It is good to know that I am not the only one in this battle for compassion and a deeper more intimate relationship with Christ.
I appreciate everyone's help in this and everyone's stories and everyone elses need for the same kind of help. There is much to think about and much to learn still.
Dear Bro. Mike
Your normal. God knows your desires, He knows what you have need of before you even pray or what you long for in your heart. I wouldn't fret over such things my friend, live for today and tomorrow will take care of itself. Compassion is never 24/7, it shows up when God wants to express Himself thru you to another individual. Remember "Love never boasts", this love has been shed abroad in our hearts by the holy Ghost. If you are one of His, than you have the love of God, just because you don't feel it or think that it's not being shown enough in your life doesn't mean it's not there.
Jesus showed much compassion, but there were times that He was moved with anger and threw out the Christian book stores out of the temple.
There are believers that press upon others the need to go and get someone saved, and people get burdened down with this. Give the day to the LORD and be thankful for it, and walk out your door and see where He leads you. It may be sitting with someone who needs to talk. For me, He does the complete opposite of what I think and sometimes there is a push-me-pulling going on between me and God. But that is our relationship and I had to learn alot at the school of hard knocks.
Many if not all of us are in training for the great controversy ahead. This world is doing what it possibly can to deny the very exisitance of Christ, they have uprooted Him in the schools, the church, etc. And when God begins to move in waves across this earth, He will move thru those who have gone thru much adversity, much lonliness and despair. He will work thru you, you whom you thought to be a heartless, no emotion Christian. You are right where God wants you to be. If you sin, repent. If you fall, stand up. If you worship today, worship tomorrow.
Look at your lack as a means of God speaking to you that He has so much in store for you. But if you feel condemened over it, this is not coming from God, but coming from you or the enemy.
No, my Brother, you are right where God wants you to be, live in that, and thank God for that contentment because it's great gain for those who find it.
Karl
My apologies for going around this somewhat...
Dear Dian, saw your post and my heart and prayers are with you sister. Have missed you here... I well recall this that you brought to the fore again, glad you allowed everyone to hear it once again and for the first time for others.
Mike, to be honest have yet to read through all this and will... But pray brother, pray.
Dear Mikeness,
You mixed up my quote with Dorcas's. :)
I posted the top part only ( the part over the issue of forgiveness) , so I guess I can't speak for Dorcas for the bottom part. When I read your initial post, the first thing that came to my mind, was FORGIVENESS.
Forgiveness, with God's help, is a major soul-freeing agent. Oh yes !
I have learned in my lifetime, that often, issues over compassion, tie in with afflictions-created unlove, or love lost by being hurt too much or too often by others. These emotions sometimes grow into bitterness and resentment, sort of insideously,little by little, so later on , one loses compassion for others, I'm not trying to psychoanalyze anything, because I 'm opposed to psycho-heresy in our Christian communities.
In my mind, this is really an issue of faith. How much do you and I truly believe on the Lord's forgiveness for us, and also, how much do we believe His sovereign will in our life, with all of its afflictions, whether they are from people or circumstances. When we search Scriptures pertaining to these issues, it's late at nite now,so I won't quote any,but we know that for sure the LORD will take care of even those who hurt us, I don't really want to quote " Vengeance is mine, I will repay " even that verse alone gives us solid comfort and assurance, but I would rather remind ourselves that HE has forgiven us, so why don't we try doing the same to forgive others, while fall upon the LORD's comfort.
Another way to look at this is, having had grown up in a difficult childhood and youth, I now am enabled by God's grace through His Word to transform the hurt I was bestowed upon into compassion for those who are hurting, regardless in forms.
So, in the end, I find myself actually thanking and praising God for my 'horrible' past life. Because, this past life has brought me much thankfulness to HIM nowadays, to even help my children grow.
God is sovereign, undeniably, with all the good [b]and
Hope this help, (toss this if it confuses you even more :) )
Will be praying for you, please DO TRUST HIM,
In His love, mamaluk
I have done the body postures while praying and singing, but I am so analytical that all my focus turns on to what I am doing instead of God. Same with singing itself. I get so focused on my voice for whatever analytical reasons that I lose focus of God, so I don't sing through my mouth but inside my head most of the time. But then I get self-concious about that because people might think that I don't want to participate in church, and on and on and on. I analyze things to death. I want my body postures to be sincere and my words and feelings to be sincere as well.
Analytical minds ... I don't recall what the attribute to them is but know this as well brother. Wondering aloud, how long have you tarried with the Lord? Ask only as to duration, longevity ... time spent in the alteration process. I highly doubt all things are similar to each of us and very suspicious of patterned explanations... But the Lord does indeed take us through all kinds of siftings and breaking's and even ... analyzing. This is not really a defect as much as an asset once it becomes more refined, at least that is what I have taken notice of.
Had times earlier on where some of the same things that you are now experiencing where driving to the point that I really thought I was on the brink of insanity or depression.. or both. It's funny now, slightly... But at one point was so desperate that I swallowed my pride :-? and went to see a doctor for depression amongst other things that were perplexing me. (The funny part now is recognizing that I went to a physical doctor for a spiritual problem). And it was a preoccupation with myself and all these unresolved things that I was beginning to go through. Hard to express that aspect of the preoccupation too pointedly at that time, when your insides are being re-arranged .... how can you not be? Surely later on this began to be understood more clearly and accurately, am sure the same will be yours just as well.
The positive aspect of being analytical is when it is transformed to see things more through the Lord's eye's ... That is difficult to say as it sounds, far too incomplete by example. What it has been in my experience is that the tendencies are to look at matters of this great, tremendous faith, to look to and at the Lord and to take in all these perspectives, even analytically is to suppose little and recognize how much paradox is inherent in all this. What I am trying to say is, being analytical is not reserved for just the frontal lobes but for everything that pertains to this life. It tends to cause a lot of bouncing off other aspects of what you read and absorb in scripture, the whole counsel of God and how vast it all is. Boy it is taking along time to get to some point here ... (Think it makes one ramble just as well...)
Stop thinking.
Yes! ...
No.
Yes, in that our brother is right, stop this type of thinking. But how? Distraction is a great help and it takes some work. One of the great ways is to delve into all that is available here, it truly is tremendous and will cause you to grasp and glean from a variety of perspectives, putting that analytical 'mind' to work in new and different ways. It will also bring that realization that I believe Dian so well articulated, that there is an overhaul inwardly, be it in large cleanup or in small increments. You will lose the one thing that is plaguing you, which is a preoccupation with yourself and gain one that is already evident in your heart, to just know Him and allow all that He is wanting to bring forth through yourself. This sounds more knowledgeable than I know, a bit out of my reach yet still. It really does boil down to;
Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
Before it and in it and through it is what comes as the precedent;
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
It is the death process before the life process.
It's coming back to me somewhat now, even here had expressed an exasperation of "I am sick of myself" until ... it finally became a truth where I had to just quit [i]thinking
It's a crisis to be sure, but one where you end up just crying uncle, really, it's [i]Abba, Father
If anything there is a great plea here to just indeed, [i]think
You did speak of compassion and a want of [i]a deeper more intimate relationship with Christ.
Chris I believe, stated;
Brothers we should pray for one another and remember too that we are not alone in suffering.
This goes right across everything that is spoken here in this forum, might we heed to it.
I don't exactly understand what you mean by tarried, but I will take a stab at what you are trying to ask me. For some three years or more i have been pursuing a relationship with God. Not since last year have my eyes and heart been awoken by many astounding truths and realizations. My mentor John has been discipling me for the year and he introduced me to Paris Reidhead, Leonard Ravenhill, and Charles Finney. I have been undertaking a new view of God and my own life as a disciple. My heart has been yearning to become closer to God because the convictions of my hardened heart have become so real and the glory that God deserves from my life and the rest of the world so clear. I feel that the lack of compassion is a great barrier in the relationship. Coming to terms with the sins of my past are key to "breaking up fallow ground"; I hear this same message coming from Reidhead and Finney.
"The difference is, here is somebody trembling because he is going to be hurt in Hell. And he has no sense of the enormity of his guilt! And no sense of the enormity of his crime! And no sense of his insult against Deity! He’s only trembling because his skin is about to be singed!" (Reidhead "Ten Shekels and a Shirt).
The bolded words are what I struggle with. My heart doesn't feel the weight.
Leonard Ravenhill relays this same message as well, "The Church has to rediscover two things. One, the majesty and the Holiness of God, and the other, the sinfulness of sin."
"It will do no good to preach to you while your hearts are in this hardened, and waste, and fallow state. The farmer might just as well sow his grain on rock. It will bring forth no fruit.... If you fail here (breaking your fallow ground), if you do no do this, and get prepared, you can go no further with me in this course of lecutres. I have gone as far as it is of any use to do, until your fallow ground is broken up. Now, you must make thorough work upon this point, or all I have further to say will do you no good" (Finney "Lectures on Revivals of Religion). These quotes are referring to the 3rd chapter where he is asking us to break up our fallow grounds and a key instrument in doing this is to confess every sin we can think of (as if we were at the judgement seat). He lists areas of sinfulness that everyone has, does, and will struggle with. I want to break this fallow ground up, but going back to what Reidhead said, I have "no sense of the enormity of his crime." I don't feel the enormity. I can understand the enormity with my head but not my heart. I want to go further in the book, I want to go further in my relationship with God.
To: everyone
All of the stuff everyone has been saying about the analytical and self-conciousness stuff has been very helpful, but I am still struggling with the stuff I just said up above. Faith, prayer and patience, I got it, will do, no problem. I need to be spoken to as if you are in my shoes right now. It is easy to speak from hindsight bias as to what I need to do, but what helps someone before that jump and before I find myself dumbfounded. I know that many things that you people are saying will make a lot more sense when I am in many of your positions, but what about before that. Does this make sense?
P.s. Crsschk, I have a hard time following what you are trying to say. Either your writing style is so different from what I am used to and your good at writing, or your grammer could use some work. I am sorry if this sounds harsh or anything, I am just trying to say that whether it is a good or bad writing style (I don't know), I don't follow what you are trying to say very well. It is not that clear. I don't read a ton, so maybe you are writing like you have a doctorate, but the plebeians don't have a clue what it all means. I am trying to be careful with what I say because quite often my words sound pretty harsh when really - I have soft-hearted intentions.
I need to be spoken to as if you are in my shoes right now.
Well Honey, I'll be your huckleberry! Don't be too hard on crosschk (Mikey), he really does love you and understand, he just has a different angle and, you are right, it's a different writing style.
I want to break this fallow ground up, but going back to what Reidhead said, I have "no sense of the enormity of his crime." I don't feel the enormity. I can understand the enormity with my head but not my heart. I want to go further in the book, I want to go further in my relationship with God.
This is good. It's ok that you have no sense of the enormity of your crime, because you understand, you see it clearly, that you have no sense of the enormity of your crime, and this is the first step. I used to sing a song that had these lines in it:[i]I want to want thee, I long to be filled with longing. I thirst to be made more thirsty, that I might know thee, Oh God. Say to my soul, "Rise up my love, my fair one, and come away." And give me the grace, Lord, to rise up and follow thee from this lowland where I have stayed.
This is all you need to do. Just let your heart begin to cry this cry to God. He will do the rest.
My heart goes out to you so much, Mikeness. It does my heart good to know that someone else is experiencing an awakening that is similar to mine. You are going to make it and you know why? Because God has drawn you unto himself! And no devil in hell can stop you now! I love you. Dian.
These quotes are referring to the 3rd chapter where he is asking us to break up our fallow grounds and a key instrument in doing this is to confess every sin we can think of (as if we were at the judgement seat).
Ah, brother... I really do hate making assumptions here, but to say that I hadn't suspected that you may be dwelling on this part, this 3rd chapter and this ... teaching, well I did suspect it.
We have talked about this here before. Personally, I have a bit of a problem with it. And one of those reasons is due to what you are expressing here. I too read through this and began to put it into practice, listing out all my past sins, at first in my mind, in prayer.
I want to break this fallow ground up...
There is the crux of the matter. "[b]I[i]You
The one admonishen I would give out here that cuts across all manners of discussions on this site, including this one, is to take everything you hear, read, opinions, comments what have you, to the Lord, to the scriptures and test them, pray about them and let the Lord Himself lead you as to what He Himself is requiring of your life.
It may very well be that the reason you have this lack of compassion is because you are attempting to bring yourself to a place that the Lord has no intention of you being at right now. Some things we are just not ready for. That is not a deficiency so to speak, it's a time\\space matter. Dear brother, it has been mentioned here and experienced by more than a few that certain books, as good as they may be are not for [i]right now[i]other matters
Having said all that. This very well may be exactly what you should be doing, reading these things, but I do suspect it is not so. But don't you take mine or anyone else's opinion for it, seek the Lord in prayer, you well may be surprised to find He would have your concentration elsewhere.
I need to be spoken to as if you are in my shoes right now. It is easy to speak from hindsight bias as to what I need to do, but what helps someone before that jump and before I find myself dumbfounded. I know that many things that you people are saying will make a lot more sense when I am in many of your positions, but what about before that. Does this make sense?
Will speak to that. From all that you have stated you are in a season of suffering it appears. It hurts. It is difficult. I found no pleasure in it whatsoever. I do caution again that you are not bringing this upon yourself because of an influence of what Finney is advising with the overt introspection. It was hard for me to hear this from some of the wise counsel of Brethren when I was in your shoes, that state of mind. But they were right. You can well end up so focusing on your self that one ends up prolonging the very thing you wish to be rid of, namely ... a preoccupation with ones self. It needs to die. Let it!
I love Finney and there may be some great good pulled out of even this ideal [i]if[i]if
Who is it that brings conviction?
And who is it that is the Accuser?
Who is it that died for your sins?
Brother it is a redirect of emphesis...[i]Unto
Balance is another word that we often chaff at.
But we need it. It is where the resources available here are very helpful in gaining different perspective. Again, it is not a matter of latching on to what is more pleasant to disallow that which may be needed but that the preservation of great Christian thought covers a lot of ground, a lot of areas and the Lord uses all these things in a variety of ways.
Sorry for the length here brother. My heart and my mouth both bursting, have well been in your shoes. It is the Lord who brings conviction and one can find themselves breaking up the wrong fields at the wrong time. Learn to follow His voice and I know of no other way than to pray and pray often. A far greater discipline I am convinced is to get ones chattering mind to be silent in prayer and to wait on the Lord. It can be done with some discipline and focus. Reading the Psalms s l o w l y ... Reading scripture period in this same manner, all things which we read. I am very concerned about the pace at which we can run, contemplation is becoming a lost art in this fast paced world that we live in, are caught up in.
P.s. Crsschk, I have a hard time following what you are trying to say. Either your writing style is so different from what I am used to and your good at writing, or your grammer could use some work. I am sorry if this sounds harsh or anything, I am just trying to say that whether it is a good or bad writing style (I don't know), I don't follow what you are trying to say very well. It is not that clear. I don't read a ton, so maybe you are writing like you have a doctorate, but the plebeians don't have a clue what it all means. I am trying to be careful with what I say because quite often my words sound pretty harsh when really - I have soft-hearted intentions.
Thank you! I appreciate you bringing this forward. I likely am not very clear, needed to hear that. Be sure to recognize that I have nothing of the sort, no doctorate, just primarily observation, a wee bit of experience perhaps, am in the same school of Christ and a fellow servant.
And no fear of offending! The only offense that comes through these pages here is brethren slandering brethren, bitterness and pride, those are less offensive to me personally as they are just grieving to the Holy Spirit.
This might be worth reading brother;
[url=http://www.austin-sparks.net/english/books/the_school_of_christ.html]The School of Christ[i]By T. Austin Sparks
If the Lord leads... Ask Him
You can well end up so focusing on your self that one ends up prolonging the very thing you wish to be rid of, namely ... a preoccupation with ones self. It needs to die. Let it!
I need to be reminded of this, as well. I know this malady has occurred in me, at times. Dear Lord! But...I will say that it makes me smile that Mikeness
[i]I want to want thee, I long to be filled with longing. I thirst to be made more thirsty, that I might know thee, Oh God. Say to my soul, "Rise up my love, my fair one, and come away." And give me the grace, Lord, to rise up and follow thee from this lowland where I have stayed.[/i]
I find myself praying for desire to desire Him and everything else this quote says. I identify quite well with the desires within that quote.
It may very well be that the reason you have this lack of compassion is because you are attempting to bring yourself to a place that the Lord has no intention of you being at right now. Some things we are just not ready for. That is not a deficiency so to speak, it's a time\\space matter. Dear brother, it has been mentioned here and experienced by more than a few that certain books, as good as they may be are not for right now. A practical example; I have a wonderful book by T.Austin Sparks, "The Stewardship of The Mystery". It literally took me 3 years to get through it. I would pick it up and read a little and it was just beyond me. Now it didn't take me 3 years to read it, more like a couple of weeks as the time allowed. It took 3 years of schooling in the Lord on other matters before I could read it and grasp the benefit that was always there, from it.
I understand. I just want the deep insights and understanding right now. It is hard to be patient, but I know I must persevere. Would this relate to the whole deal where whoever it was was saying that babies can only consume milk but the more mature can eat whole foods? I feel that I can consume the whole foods, but is it based on God's timing or my own (my speed in maturity).
Learn to follow His voice and I know of no other way than to pray and pray often. A far greater discipline I am convinced is to get ones chattering mind to be silent in prayer and to wait on the Lord. It can be done with some discipline and focus. Reading the Psalms s l o w l y ...
Reading scripture period in this same manner, all things which we read. I am very concerned about the pace at which we can run, contemplation is becoming a lost art in this fast paced world that we live in, are caught up in.
I know what you mean. I feel like I always have to read my books fairly quickly and I don't get a whole lot out of them because I am not focusing enough attention on the subject matter. I agree, I need to slow down.
I need to bump this so that I could get some more help please?
I understand. I just want the deep insights and understanding right now. It is hard to be patient, but I know I must persevere. Would this relate to the whole deal where whoever it was was saying that babies can only consume milk but the more mature can eat whole foods? I feel that I can consume the whole foods, but is it based on God's timing or my own (my speed in maturity).
Partially ... Was thinking on this a bit, how the Lord will lead us further on to different ... realms. Had the analogy of where we would say at one point still have the carry over of a subconscious or even conscious judging of people, circumstances, what have you, the remnants of the old life. You began to be troubled by it and stop doing it for the greater part. Then a certain underneath sense of how well you feel that you are not doing this anymore gets hold of you, a bit of pride wells up and you find yourself in the throes of that "Holier than thou" mindset. (Read something on this recently, there [i]are[i]know them[i]Well of course, I know that
Then something like ... say being offended comes up and a whole new process takes place, some of it feeding off past trials and schooling, some of it entirely new, unrecognized, suppressed ... You look to how the Lord [i]is
Brother I am not sure how much any of this is of a benefit to your particular plight at the moment, just some personal experience. Again though and another thing I am finding ... Is the thing troubling you (lack of compassion) the thing that the Lord is concerned about? It may be a byproduct of some deeper area that He would have you deal with. I do not think you are going to a find a silver bullet here to put everything into it's place. What you are in right now is the process. The struggle itself is worth more than you know. It's carrying your cross and dying to yourself.
Used to be very impatient, a 'worry wart' and these things still have their days, sad to say, even if they have been tamed and tempered greatly. Keep at it brother, endurance and character, patience ... it's a noble battle, an incredible journey as the eyes are opened more and more, your very longing for these things that you have mentioned is proof. Soon, only what the Lord wills is of any import, beyond even the telling yourself that it is so.
Wrote this last night after a long, busy day and it is a bit disjointed. How to clarify it all, make more sense of it, seems to be alluding me.
Perhaps someone else can unravel or add there own experience to help a fellow sojourner get some answers to the question he is asking.
My prayers are with you Mike.