I would like to highly recommend the articles,"To Tattoo or not Tattoo" you can find them on the website, av1611.org. When you go on this site scroll the "articles" section to this title. I would really like to hear from all on what you think of these articles. Thanks and God bless
I'm not a huge fan of tatoos... but if we are to forbid tatoos based on scripture, then we need to look at the context. The scripture most Christians use to condemn tatoos is:
Lev 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.
However... they ignore the pervious verse which says:
Lev 19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
So if you're rounding the corners of your head, or your marring the corners of your beard... you are sinning just as much as if you get a tattoo.
I will not judge any believer who gets a tattoo. I feel this falls under Christianity liberty, and only God can judge their motives for getting one.
I have a friend who got a lot of tattoos before he was saved... and after he was saved he got some that had Christians symbols in them, and one that has King of Kings written in greek. His stated motives was to show that he has been branded for Christ, and is living for Him now.
I personally dont have a problem with his reasoning...
Krispy
Well though it depends on why the person is getting the tattoo. Is it to be "rebellious"? Or is it to glorify God? Most tattoos, I would say, are gotten for self-adoration, self-glorification, and outright rebellion.
As Christians, I don't see why we should even be concerned with getting body art of this nature. However, I will not judge a person just because they have tattoos, or are getting one. If someone ever tells me their getting a tattoo, and they are a Christian, I will advise against it, unless it is the will of the Father.
Tattooing is synonomous in this culture with rebellion, and we should steer away from things that are so equated and known for rebellion like that.
So I will let people do as they choose, but as for me, I will not tattoo my body. :-)
Jordan
Is it to be "rebellious"? Or is it to glorify God? Most tattoos, I would say, are gotten for self-adoration, self-glorification, and outright rebellion.
I agree with both statements here... it's the motive I think that matters most, but at the same time I think the very nature of tattoos is to draw attention to ourselves. However, we cant rule out that some people who come out of that culture and get saved may get a tattoo of a "christian" nature in order to witness to others in that culture that they have found Christ.
So lets leave this particular issue up to God.
Krispy
Hello...
There is also this verse in I Corinthians 3:16-17:
In my
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
I would not put a tattoo on my body. But on the other hand, I wouldn't judge the heart or motivation of the people that do. We have all made mistakes. The only unfortunate thing is that tattoos are permanent mistakes (because even a tattoo that has been removed leaves scars).
:-)
To krispy and everyone else. The scriptures say to be slow to speak quick to hear. I would say be slow to post. I don't think you took the time to read the articles that I asked. One of the challenges posters seem to face is staying on track with the original post. If you are not going to read the articles and then comment on the articles then you are ignoring the best part of the original post. I'm sorry if this seems harsh but it's not the first time this has happened.It kinda puts a damper on the whole thing and frankly makes me not want to post anymore. God bless, John
Hi thingsabove...
I searched that website, but I couldn't seem to find the article that you recommended. I went to the "Articles" page and performed a "Edit>Find" on the page, but nothing with the word "tattoo" came up. I also used the search feature on the site (looking for "tattoo"), but it came back with a list of a lot of other articles, but I couldn't find the article that you suggested.
Perhaps next time you could leave a specific link to the article, and thus avoid any sort of problem as such.
Thanks for the suggestion, though.
:-)
Here is the link to that article. It also has other articles concerning tattoo's.
Link: http://www.av1611.org/tattoos/intro.html
God Bless
Hi thingsabove...
After having read the article, I think that the discussion (as began by Krispy and continued by others) is just as relevant. I agree with some of the statements made in the articles about the holiness of the body, but I believe that this website often states facts based upon presumption (such as automatically concluding that anyone with a tattoo has drank "the cup of devils").
thingsabove wrote:
To krispy and everyone else. The scriptures say to be slow to speak quick to hear. I would say be slow to post. I don't think you took the time to read the articles that I asked. One of the challenges posters seem to face is staying on track with the original post. If you are not going to read the articles and then comment on the articles then you are ignoring the best part of the original post. I'm sorry if this seems harsh but it's not the first time this has happened.It kinda puts a damper on the whole thing and frankly makes me not want to post anymore. God bless, John
I had a professor in grad school that assigned two books about a particular topic. When he asked questions, he wanted to know which author we agreed with. Unfortunately, I often agreed with elements of both authors (or neither). This professor would grow frustrated with answers that weren't completely in agreement with the statements of one of the authors. In this article (and subsequent links), there are some elements of what is stated that I agree with -- but a lot which seems to be based upon premature or circular reasoning.
However, this does open the door to discuss the topic. And on that, I agree with much of what was posted by Krispy and Jordanamo.
:-)
I was remiss in pointing out in my original post that I was not able to find the article either, so I posted my thoughts on it.
I dont think it's necessary to chastise people who wanted to post something relevant to the topic... save that for the moderators. :-)
I will read the article (now that we have a direct link...) and then comment as necessary. Okey doke?
Krispy
if our body was created by god... dident he do it just right? what are we saying to god when we "change" "improve" "paint over" or what ever one would like to call it... if god wanted us to have a picture or something on our body i belive we would have it, but if tattos is ok is cosmetic surgery ok to? or where do we draw the line? can a girl go get her breast fixed just to look a little nicer or improve on gods original work.
I think and belive that we should accept what god has given us...
gods peace to you all
christian
Thanks for posting a better link to the articles. The article on Tattoos & the Bible will be helpful concerning the standard Hair and beard argument. God bless, John
Boy, this all makes me just want to go out and get another tattoo...lol. I find it fascinating that tattooing has been around since BC and we still talk about, and many times judge and condemn those that have them. (By the way, I'm not saying that any of you have judged another, but it is only bound to happen eventually from someone.) I'm a tattoed PK. Did I do it out of rebellion? No. When I pierced my own ear at the age of 17, because my parents wouldn't let me, now that was done out of rebellion. I love tattoos. I decided once I started getting them that the tattoos would only represent Christ and my walk with him.
Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit, AND, our bodies are a shell because we are aliens in this land.
I doubt this tattoo discussion will never end, because there will always be someone on each side of the fence, but I do have to say that it is getting a little old!
Thingsabove,
where in Iraq are you?
just curious.
God Bless
I'm in Baghdad. Ben, I hope you'll take the time to look at the article Tattoo's and the Bible. Take a look at what it has to say. It also has "scholars" quoted as well. Also do you know the names of the scholars who say the Leviticus prohibition on tattoo's no longer apply? For what it worth I have a tattoo on my chest. God bless,John
I doubt this tattoo discussion will never end, because there will always be someone on each side of the fence, but I do have to say that it is getting a little old!
Yea... kinda like the age old debates over Christian rock. It gets a little ho-hum.
Krispy
thingsabove wrote:
I'm in Baghdad. Ben, I hope you'll take the time to look at the article Tattoo's and the Bible. Take a look at what it has to say. It also has "scholars" quoted as well. Also do you know the names of the scholars who say the Leviticus prohibition on tattoo's no longer apply? For what it worth I have a tattoo on my chest. God bless,John
As you see, I edited what I wrote. I realized finally that it was a common arguement, unbenounced to me, until I read that one article. So, I digressed, and edited what I originally wrote. I don't remember the scholars names, as it was so long ago. All, I've got to say is that there are great arguments on both sides of the fence, but we Christians spend soooo much time discussing and even arguing our points to the point that it is really pointless anymore. None of us will truly really ever know until we meet before our loving heavenly Father, Judge, Creator, and Friend.
I just can't picture being one of Jesus disciples, and Him looking at us and saying, "Tommorrow, we go into town because I want to get a tattoo." lol. Can you picture our Lord saying that? This body of his was so temporary it would be worthless to get one.
Plus, why would he do that to himself?! Why would God get a tattoo? For what purpose? Faith is not in seeing something.
you have a point there...anoyher might be that who are you to deside that you should have a tatto? dident christ buy you? dident you give him your body to? then he should decide who gets tattod or not... but my rule is if you cant really prove something ...i meen if im not really sure if it is sin or not... then its not worth the risk...
but maybe some of you feel this is no serius matter...
major ian thomas said
there is going to be a lot of suprises in the day the dust settles....
gods peace to you all
hmmhmm wrote:
you have a point there...anoyher might be that who are you to deside that you should have a tatto? dident christ buy you? dident you give him your body to? then he should decide who gets tattod or not... but my rule is if you cant really prove something ...i meen if im not really sure if it is sin or not... then its not worth the risk...
but maybe some of you feel this is no serius matter...
major ian thomas said
there is going to be a lot of suprises in the day the dust settles....
So, since Jesus bought me, I guess I shouldn't have caffeine, because it stimulates my mind outside of the ordinairy. Maybe I shouldn't have my hair completely shaved off because He, after all, gave me hair and I should have it grow. In fact, I should never cut my hair, because God never actually told me that I could. My body is a skinny type, so, since God never said that I'm allowed to lift weights, then I guess it would be a sin to exercise to get bigger...
I can go on and on...
Why do we get so caught up in this stuff sometimes? I agree that God purchased us with the blood of His Son, but that doesn't mean that we have to live a zombie life!
To an extent, Jesus involved Himself in the culture. It is speculated that He had long hair and a beard because that was the culture, and he even drank wine. What are everyone's thoughts on that, since the Bible says to be in the world, but not of it? We always put stuff like drinking, and piercing and so on as "of the world," and yet Christ himself did some of these things (not the piercing of course).
We are supposed to be representations of Christ, right? We're supposed to "look like Christ," right? Well, what about African tribes that for thousands of years have had like negative 10 gauge piercings, paintings on their face and body and rings around their neck. What if that is the only culture they know. Are you saying that God would not come to this earth to be like one of them? What about the Indians? Same thing. Would not God come to this earth and be like one of them? We get so caught up in what Jesus looked like that we don't take into consideration that he lived in THAT culture.
I love Todd Agnew's song called My Jesus. It fits in with this idea.
Okay, this is getting really old. Most of you are just wasting your time trying to put in your 2 cents, when all of your arguments are wind.
Most of your arguments such as,
if our body was created by god... dident he do it just right? what are we saying to god when we "change" "improve" "paint over" or what ever one would like to call it...
you have a point there...anoyher might be that who are you to deside that you should have a tatto? dident christ buy you?
The idea that keeps coming back to me is twofold.
The first part being if our previous actions/sins have left us with permanent marks will they be erased in our glorified forms? Will our resurected bodies have tatto's, scars and other marks that clearly denote rebellion, which is the sin of witchcraft? Does our Lord look upon us as sanctified, without blemish? Omly if we are bathed by the blood of the Lamb. Do we judge by appearance, or more honestly do I? I am guilty of a judgmental beam in my eye approach and I have a tattoo :-(
The second part is the scarred visage of my Lord and Saviour. In heaven seated at the right hand of the Father, Jesus bears the scars and piercings of our healing and salvation. Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever.
In the end of John's gospel Jesus appears to Thomas and offers those pierced hands and His pierced side as evidence of His resurecction. I long for the day when I look upon that pierced brow and down to His eyes, for then I'll truly have seen the price paid for my eternal hope and salvation.
Instead of looking for what's different in the family of God let's focus on He whose blood has drawn all those afar off, into His Holy family.
Brought close by His cross and away from all that is old, like past tattoo's or even the marks of a new zeal we all need to show the world God's glory not how we can pick each other apart.
Rich
I said this on another tattoo thread and I still feel the same so I thought I would post it again on this one. You know this is a tough one, Personally I don't have any tattoos but I wonder if your tattoos are like your sin was before you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior, after you accepted Christ he erased your sins he don't even see or remember them anymore.
I personally feel he doesn't even see those tattoos anymore, he see's your heart and even though we continue to sin he still forgives us so even though you still have the tattoos he continues to forgive you for those and I don't think they will have "any" effect on his Love or his will for you, and you should never lets those tattoos make you feel any condemnation forget about you even have them Jesus did! remember there is "no" condemnation for those who are in Christ.
Brother Bill
Hello brethren,
I just read Matthew Henry Commentary on Leviticus Chap. 19 and found it very enlightening, you would have to read it for yourselves to obtain your own illumination.
I also read Jamieson,Fausset and Brown commentary and knowledge on this matter was expounded even more.
God bless you.
www.blueletterbible.org includes these commentaries.
Jaime.
Jaime, thanks for referencing the commentaries. Several of the posts would be summarized as "leave it up to God" Well When the prohibition was given it emmediatly was followed with "I am the Lord",well there you go we left it up to God and He said don't do it. So the Lord said it, why are we saying differently? If you desire clarity on this then make sure to read "all the articles" especially "Tattoo's and the Bible" Some of you want this "issue" to go away, well it won't. Teenagers are increasingly getting tattoo's against the will of their parents, both christian and non christian, not to mention the body peircing and tongue splitting. Many non christians know it's wrong even though they may not be able to fully explain why it's wrong. We are the church of Jesus Christ. We have had the right answer for 2000 years. From Scripture! From the Early christian writings! From Godly men and women throughout christianity's history. only in the past 20 measly years have christians given in to tattooing and said it's o.k. Wow we know sooo much now. We are so much wiser now. Look at all the revival fruit in America as a result of our new knowledge!... Next to no fruit.The revival in tattooing is the fruit of not proclaimg the "whole counsel of God" not understanding that "ALL scripture,(old testament as well as New testament)is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:That the man of God may be perfect,throughly furnished unto all good works" 2 Tim 3:16,17 I'm very suprised at some of the posts. Do you listen to all the sermon's on revival? I can guarantee that ALL the revivalist would have condemed tattoing as unchristian and should not even be named amongst us. You know the catholics are often critized for going into cultures and allowing the people to hold on to there superstions,animisms and pagan practices they just attach Jesus to it and it's all o.k. the people are not called to bear fruit in keeping with repentance. Well it appears to me that the current evangelical church is doing the same thing to a degree. We are supposed to be the salt and light. Think about some of your reasoning. I know that some of you will ignore what I have said and continue on with a smack of the lips and a shaking of the head thinking you are mature and above this "petty, devisive debate. I feel sorry for you and I hope you will sloww down and really re evaluate your understanding on this. Because some of your counsel is continuing to encourage this and other ungodly conduct. God bless you, John
well people can find how many for and against as we want... but im skinny to... i dont feel any need for lifting weights.. if im week thats good...god selected the week did he not?
i cant say what you should do...but i have many tattos... and for me i was cruched whit conviction weeping over how i totaly destroyed and distorted this beutiful body god had given me, but since i dident now better..i was in the world i thougt as the world i talked liked the world , i looked like the world..... i was of the world.
then i meet christ and everything was new, and im for myself confedent in that tattos is wrong and anyone who professes the name of christ shouldent get one...but if anyone feels led by God to get one...
and soon we will discus girls getting their brest larger to gods glory, or something...next year we will have christian beers, and then christian mariujana.... the world should take after us...not us them....
well i know many dont agree whit me... many want christ and a piece of the world to.
let go....
gods peace to all of you...and if we have that there is no need for a tatto ;)
christian
Okay, this is getting really old. Most of you are just wasting your time trying to put in your 2 cents, when all of your arguments are wind.
Let's not judge one another, but examine ourselves.
Some of us HAVE said we'll leave it up to God. That is correct. But here's why... I think there are more important things for me to concern myself with than whether or not a brother gets a tattoo.
It's never occurred to me to get a tatto... so for me, it's not an issue. If someone asked me for my advice on the matter, I would councel them to really search their soul as to why they want to get one. And I think in most cases, if someone was honest, they would have to admit to vanity being the biggest reason. At that point I would councel them against getting it because I don't believe it is godly to draw attention to ourselves in that manner. If someone is drawn to me (other than my wife) I want it to be because they see Jesus in me, and not because I'm as good looking as I am. (It's a cross I bear! LOL)
But ultimately it's between God and that brother. I will not sit in judgement over someone because of a tattoo. No one owes me an explanation for why they have a tattoo.
So while some of us seem rather loose on the issue... don't jump to conclusions so quickly.
I think those who are being so black and white on the issue need to ask yourselves "why I am so obsessed with this issue? What, or whom, am I trying to encourage in the Lord... and why? Do I want to preach against this practice, or bring people to a closer walk with Jesus?"
If you wish to preach agaisnt something, preach against apathy... false doctrines... false teachers... etc.
I'm not saying this issue isnt worth discussing. Just trying to bring a little balance to it, and trying to show that I'm not as loose on it as I'm being made out to be.
By the way... the argument that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit is valid and correct. But I would like to encourage those who use this argument against tattoos, smoking, etc also look at yourselves and make sure there is no hypocricy in your words. What do I mean by this? Twinkies. What do you eat? Do you eat too much junk food? Do you eat more ice cream than you do green veggies? Do you eat at McDonalds? Do you work out at least 3 times a week? If you don't, and you don't eat right... be careful when you talk about tattoos and other practices that effect the temple.
Krispy
KrispyKrittr wrote:By the way... the argument that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit is valid and correct. But I would like to encourage those who use this argument against tattoos, smoking, etc also look at yourselves and make sure there is no hypocricy in your words. What do I mean by this? Twinkies.
Krispy
U'h nice timing Krispy I will toss it and just have my coffee now.
Thanks! Buddy :-?
well thats what i have to do, its easy to speak up against something, but maybe we should look at ourself instead, im representing me at the judgement seat.... and you have to represent you.
so what ever one decides to do and so on...make sure one self is right whit god and walking in holiness and love,
and i have to admit i dont always understand everyones opinion and so on, but i love you anyways :)
im against tattos :) i have them myself i think they are defiling the body that god gave me... someone else thinks it looks better... we are all different, but i pray god will led us all into the way that leds to him.
gods peace and blessing and guidence to all of you
christian
I don't think you are loose but beware of the bringing balance. That can be a noble but tricky thing to do. Kinda like Ravenhill saying he wouldn't tell a man how to preach. I believe I have already been preaching against apathy,(not wanting to take a solid biblical stand on this) False doctrine,(that it's o.k. for a christian to get a tattoo so long as his motive's right) False teachers,( those who say tattooing for christians is fine). As always both a plane reading of the scriptures and illumination of the Holy Ghost and a "teachable spirit" are necessary for us to understand and grow, even then I realize all will not agree. I must still teach what the Lord has told me to teach. Also again this is more than just about to tattoo or not it is about what it means "be holy for I am holy.... a peculiar people. I do appreciate one of the posters actually responding specificaly to the content of one of the articles. That was again my original post and desire. I already knew what most believed from the previous tattoo thread. God bless,John
I don't think you are loose but beware of the bringing balance. That can be a noble but tricky thing to do. Kinda like Ravenhill saying he wouldn't tell a man how to preach. I believe I have already been preaching against apathy,(not wanting to take a solid biblical stand on this) False doctrine,(that it's o.k. for a christian to get a tattoo so long as his motive's right) False teachers,( those who say tattooing for christians is fine). As always both a plane reading of the scriptures and illumination of the Holy Ghost and a "teachable spirit" are necessary for us to understand and grow, even then I realize all will not agree. I must still teach what the Lord has told me to teach. Also again this is more than just about to tattoo or not it is about what it means "be holy for I am holy.... a peculiar people. I do appreciate one of the posters actually responding specificaly to the content of one of the articles. That was again my original post and desire. I already knew what most believed from the previous tattoo thread. God bless,John
I agree, brother. Sometimes "balance" means compromise. We should never compromise when it comes to the Word of God, and I think if you look at everything I have posted on this forum for the last 2 years you will see that I am extremely non-compromising on many issues. But for things like tattoos, music, etc... what some call "gray areas" we need to step back and say "I have my convictions about it, but I need to recognize that perhaps others don't." Like the whole issue of eating meat that was traditionally sacrificed to idols. Clearly the Bible teaches that if you have convictions against it, don't do it. But if someone doesn't, don't judge them over it.
Not condemning people who get tattoos is not apathy.
Not siding with your convictions on this is not a false teaching.
Not taking the same stand as you on this does not make me a false teacher.
Not getting a tattoo is NOT a "doctrine".
...but Christian liberty is.
Krispy
In The World; Not of the World
Jesus said, “I have given them Your Word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world. I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world." (John 17:14-16).
Do you know that the majority of the people in your church spend most of the week in the secular business world? As they go out into corporate America, they’re not of that world. But Jesus is saying, “I don’t pray that You take them [out] of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one in the [midst] of the world.” Are you preparing God’s people to be dramatically [in] the world, but not [of] the world? Light in the midst of darkness, and salt where it is decaying? Are you helping them to understand how to live out in the real world, in such a way that the enemy does not have a hold on them, but they are defeating him?
Aww... excellent words spoken from Christ Himself to His Father in John 17. The rest was written by Henry Blackaby.
Are we living and defining our lives by this context. Are we living in the freedom of Christ? Is God wholly our King? Wholly our Lord? Wholly our Savior? Wholly our Redeemer? Wholly our Friend? Wholly our Lover? Wholly our Master? or are we too focused on pithy stuff? :-D
Ah... thank you Ben! That summarizes what I've been trying to say all along! Well done!
Krispy
Ben teaching the truth about tattoo's or body peircing or "anything that is contrary to sound doctrine"1 Tim 1:10 is how we help christians to not allow a foothold of the enemy in their lives. Not giving in to tattoo's and peircings etc. is part of how we help them to live out in the real world. Krispy I appreciate you calling me brother however your comments about being obssesed and "condeming" are not helpful. The danger of discussing this or any particular issue at lenghth is you end up being called a "single issue fanatic" or "obsessed",so be it ...Living the "freedom in Christ" means freedom from sin , not to sin. read 1 Tim 1:8-11 concerning the proper use of the law and anything contrary to sound doctrine. I take you back to one of my earlier posts; this tattooing amongst "christians" has only been widespread in the past 20 years or so.That says something when the prev 1900 plus years the christian church has understood this issue plainly. Well I am going to probably stop on this particular thread. There are those who have posted who see the Tattoo issue for what it is and there are those that don't. God bless to all, John
:-) You're welcome Krispy!
If anyone is interested, and has not heard about it: Subscribe to the newspaper, The Herald of His Coming. You can look it up online at: www.heraldofhiscoming.com/ It is all about prayer and revival! It is an excellent source and encouragement! ;-)
thingsabove wrote:
Ben teaching the truth about tattoo's or body peircing or "anything that is contrary to sound doctrine"1 Tim 1:10 is how we help christians to not allow a foothold of the enemy in their lives. Not giving in to tattoo's and peircings etc. is part of how we help them to live out in the real world.
So does this mean that all African tribes and Indians are condemned to hell because it is cultural to have piercings and tattoos? I, again, reitterate what I said in an earlier post, "Jesus was culturally relevant (to a degree) with the Jews, and would do so the same with any other culture. Why do we always picture Jesus as some white middle class person that had class and looked it? It is Scripturally untrue!
Did you also read 1 Timothy 1:8-9? :
8[We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.] [9We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious...]
Ben Those that you mention will be judged by the "Ten commandments" which are written on there heart.There is a heirachy of sin's I would not list tattooing at the top. However tattong is a sin because God said not to do it. I agree with you saying he was relevant "to a degree" in that he did not "sin with sinners,just sat. I never said Jesus was some middle class white dude with class. 1 Tim 1 8-9 yes made for lawless and disobedient. Tattooing is lawless and disobedient and contrary to sound doctrine. And if a christian is going to be lawless then the barking nipping dog of the "law" "may" have to be used to get him back to the sheperd.(Be gentle with me on that anology) God bless you brother Ben
I digress. This'll just continue to go in circles. We can go on and on with Scripture. So, I will end with one last one!
Galatians 3
Faith or Observance of the Law
1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? 5Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
6Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."[a] 7Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. 8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."[b] 9So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
[[[10All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."[c] 11Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."[d] 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."[e] 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."[f] 14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.]]]
The Law and the Promise
15Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed,"[g] meaning one person, who is Christ. 17What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
19What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. 20A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one.
21Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
[[[[23Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ[h] that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.]]]]
Sons of God
26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the PROMISE.
Promise of what...? Faith!
Anyways...!
I end there!
Ben
i use to have a tattoo, but i got it lazered off, theres still a little showing. i have about 4 more treatments to go. i know that God forgave me, but it was a stumbling block for me, causing me to be high minded and desire to dress different, more "cooler" instead of plainly and i didn't feel very feminine. not only that, the christians i use to go to church with thought it was cool and they wanted to get tattoos too. i had to explain that it was before my conversion, but with young kids they didn't care, they thought it was cool, so from then on i was grieved that it was causing my brethrens to lust after this, though it is not my fault, if i could get rid of it for their sake i will and i did. i had a tribal tattoo that almost covered my upper arm, being small made even look bigger. not very womanly. i totally got the tattoo because i thought it looked cool, all in vain, until i came to Christ, it didn't look so cool anymore. but it really became more of a stumbling block,teaching christians its o.k. to look worldly. so i had to spend much time telling them that i got it when i was lost. not saying that christians with tattoos aren't great witnesses, but if you have tattoos that can be seen, then you know what i'm talking about when people come up to you and say, oh how cool, i want one too! it takes a lot of focus off God where you have to really bring the conversation back to the Lord. thats another reason why we should dress modestly too. do all we can to give God all the attention and none of us.
i understand what you mean, thingsabove. things like getting tattoos and piercing will just lead to more worldly things too. yeah, i use to have piercings too, but thats gone in the trash for good.
whitefield would puposely buy old clothes so he would keep himself from desiring more. not that buying new clothes is a sin, but he understood the weakness (lust) of the flesh and this is just a part of gaurding and watching your heart, to keep oneself lowly (from vanity) and keeping Christ centered.
getting a tatto won't damn you to hell, but it can lead you easily to vanity that can cause deeper lust for the world and lead you to hell.
african tribes get tattoos for a totally different reason then people in america. so we can't compare ourselves to them. like in middle east countries, getting a nose ring is like getting earrings, its nothing about wanting to look cool and be rebelloise. in america most people get tattoos and piercing to look cool and rebell. thats very obviouse. it is not out of cultural traditions like in other countries.
if we would learn to see the beginning of our lust and examine our motives for things we would save ourselves a lot of pain. its the little sins that we have to really watch out for. those little ones are the real deceptive ones that leads us to bigger appetites for the world.
James 1:14-16
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is FULL-GROWN, brings forth death.
16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
as christians knowing the cost and commanded to bear our cross daily, we must gaurd our hearts continually, keeping watch of devices of the evil one that uses little things first, to intice christians, to grow their appetite more for the world. he knows christian will not outright commit aldulty, get drunk, ect... so the devil has to first use little tings to trap them in bigger things. and the more they fall into these little traps their appetite will grow more in more leading to full grown sin, being in bondage again.
i'm not saying you will be damn for tattoos, i'm encouraging us all to be watchful. we are told to gaurd orselves. it is so easy to fall for the lust of this world and the devices of the evil one when you are not abiding in the Lord. we can't see these liitle foxes that destroy the vineyard when we are not in Him. but thru Christ, He makes us alert and see the beginning of something that many will think is small, but we will see how the small things will evenually lead to bigger things. do not be deceived, our flesh is very weak, but the Spirit is willing, if we would abide in Chrsit daily, He will give us the strength to overcome all things and to desire nothing in this world, but to be content with the food and clothes that you have.
God bless,
lisa
myfirstlove... do you believe that tithing is a law that Christians are required to obey? If so... which tithe?
It's NOT my desire to divert this thread off the topic... but I ask this because it'll help me better understand where you're coming from.
Krispy
"do you believe that tithing is a law that Christians are required to obey?"
no.
we are told to give generously with a cheerful "heart". ready to give, willing to share.
i hope this will help you to understand me more :)
God bless,
lisa
I agree with you on tithing completely. But realize that there are many who do not... and believe if you do not tithe you are sinning and actually robbing from God. And they have some rather compelling arguments. However, you have chosen to exercise your freedom in Christ (which is commendable).
In the OT law tithing was a command... from God. Just as binding as laws that ended with "I AM THE LORD".
I would encourage you to do the same with this issue as you do tithing in your own life. Certainly share your convictions with others as the Lord leads... but also allow other believers to not share in all of your convictions.
Krispy
krispy,
"I would encourage you to do the same with this issue as you do tithing in your own life. Certainly share your convictions with others as the Lord leads... but also allow other believers to not share in all of your convictions."
i believe that i did leave room for that. please read my post again.
was i telling others that you will be damn, if you do get a tattoo? no. it was to be watchful and abide in Christ that we may SOBERLY examine and judge our hearts right in all things in the light of Christ. theres nothing wrong to tell others to becareful of things involving the flesh. it is true that the more you feed your flesh, the more your appetite grows for the world.
a lot of christians today use Jesus name so loosely, with no fear and would say i did this for Jesus. there is nothing wrong in helping a person to see if their motives were pure, helping them be watchful, keeping them from stumbling again.
christ cares more about being glorified thru you being dead to self then what you wear for Him. that doesn't prove anything to Him what you put on yourself. He's looking at your heart and your thoughts. just like He doesn't care if you wear a christian t-shirt. it doesn't glorify Him. what glorifies HIm if your dead to SELF then you'll be ALIVE to Him.
theres a lot of things that the word isn't clear about, but if we would learn to examine our hearts daily in the light of Christ we would see if our motives are pure or not. and if we would seriously take in the word daily with a right heart, the word will be like a refiners fire and expose us to any errors, wrong motives we have.
one cannot judge their heart correctly if they are not continually abiding in Him.
i hope this makes more sense.
God bless
Thank God we are not under the law to obey these hair cuttings and shavings etc..
To myfirstlove, your post was very sound and encouraging it reflected a respect for not only the word but the conviction of teaching that comes from the Holy Ghost. Your awareness of the impact it was having on the children is very important. Your putting Christ and others before yourself! Thanks for adding it to the discussion. I also am looking at lasering my tattoo. Thanks again.
"Examine the root and you'll understand the fruit". Did this or any practice originate with God ,the scriptures and christianity,or did it originate with the unbeleivers and paganism? God bless, John
can anyone think about jesus going to get a tatto? i know i try to but no... i cant see him doing that, maybe some people can,
someone speaks about laws... i dont know ive never seen a verse speaking against smoking, can we smoke to? christians? or is that law to?
and if we can smoke cant we drink to? jesus turned water to wine, does that meen we can drink?
should we do this? i belive no. God gave us our consince, he gave us our common sense, he gave us some wisdom, if we listen to thease things and stay in prayer and listen to god he will show us the truth
christian
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