How does one become born again?

How does someone become born again? Is it a sinner's prayer? Is it from repenting from every single sin they have ever done? Is it from baptism? Only one requirement. All statements must be backed with scripture. P.S. I AM SAVED, and but just trying to play the devil's advocate :p.

This is a must hear resource on the subject. Brother Ernest breaks it down in clear and simple terms. Even if you are born again this is a must hear sermon and certainly one to burn copies of and pass out and give to others.

[b]How To Be Born Again - Ernest O'Neil[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=7987

1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

2Co 4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

i dont know...there are probably hundrads of more verses that would fit this...but for me and my own experience, i called out to god...in a lot of words but in short my prayer was

if there is a God, either save me or kill me, becuse ive come to the end there is nothing left... and 24 hours later i prayed in the name of jesus christ and on my way home i meet the lord, the best description of it was i sat in a dark room and jesus switched on the lights...i was free... like a back pack went of my back ...but in my soul... i feelt light i feelt so happy ive ever felt...from crying of depresion i was now crying of happines...and from that day my life have so changed its a miricle... Behold everything is new.

thank you Jesus Christ my lord my god and my savior.
gods peace to you
christian

A man is born again by first being shown he is guilty before God, by conviction of the Holy Ghost...

John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment

...through the Word...

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

...and / or by God's personal intervention...

Acts 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

...God brings the man to this point, he is born again when he repents of his self-righteousness, and puts his faith in Christ:

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

1 Peter 1:

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

It is by the word of God that one is introduced to Him and sustained by Him. Understanding and wisdom comes to those who walk with Him. It is this understanding which preserves the soul.

Psa. 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

Psa. 119:144 The righteousness of thy testimonies is everlasting: give me understanding, and I shall live.

Psa. 119:169 TAU. Let my cry come near before thee, O LORD: give me understanding according to thy word.

In Christ
Jeff

artemioL on 2006/8/28 18:51:31 posted:

How does someone become born again?

There may well be things which we can identify as obstacles to regeneration. But we cannot fulfil a series of qualifying actions and then say 'therefore' that person is regenerate.

But we cannot fulfil a series of qualifying actions and then say 'therefore' that person is regenerate.

There is only one action that brings the birthing of Christ in the believer.

What is the Church, the Body of Christ built upon.

Matthew 16:15-18 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The Rock is not Peter, but the revelation form the Father that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

John 3:16-18 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

This is the only action man has, "BELIEVE"

Then the Mechanism of New Birth is in God's Hands and the process begins, First, Christ is Born Again in the believer, then the Prayer of Christ, comes the Holy Spirit baptized into the believer sent by the Answered Prayer form the Father. Then we work out our salvation with fear and trembling, because we have so much to learn from our Teacher the Holy Spirit about the Christ that is in us. Line upon Line and Precept upon Precept. The more we ask to know Him the more that will be given. A life long process, what a wonder, learning this Christ that is birthed in us.

In Christ: Phillip

iN CHRIST: Phillip

Dear artemioL,

This is a good question, and for anyone who seeks to be a leader in the Church, a question that person needs to be able to answer easily. If someone were to come to any one of us and said, "How is it that I might be saved?" We should be able to tell them.

Clearly, as Philologos pointed out, being born again is an act of God. When Jesus was quoted as saying in John 3 "You must be born again," His listener, Nicodemus, also struggled with this same question. How is it a person can be born again? Jesus answered in verse 8 (NAS), "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

Being "born again" is a work of God, and it is by His choosing, His grace, and His mercy, that a person is born again. We in our own power cannot make it happen for ourselves or for anyone else.

Obviously, this truth presents a little dilemma. If this is true, how can anyone be saved? And why should anyone evangelize, if God is going to pick His favorites anyway?

Though God is soveriegn, and the choice is His, we have been included in this. God seeks us out. But we are left with a question, will we accept Him?

The entire bible is about a relationship between man and God. The Lord of the Heavens seeks to have a loving relationship with us that involves being united as one. God's ultimate purpose for us is to be united as one with us in love, so that He may share Himself with us, and love us. God is love and He seeks to love us. However, we constantly deny His love. We fail to love God, trust in God, believe in God, and have faith in God.

A relationship is one that involves two people coming together. Think of a marriage. Both people have to say "I do." God has already chosen us. He is seeking out every single one of us. He wants to have a relationship with every person. And so, the other part of that is our response. Are we going to accept? If we say "yes", then we can be married to God. If we say "no", then we have to be cast away from God.

In John 3, after Jesus says the above in verse 8, Nicodemus asks, "How can this be?" Jesus continues the discussion.

Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony. If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

At first glance, we might say the answer is simple. Anyone who believes in Jesus is saved. This is true, however, if we were to leave it at that, the question becomes which Jesus?

In the above, the Lord made clear that the Son of Man is the one who descended from Heaven and ascended to Heaven in glory. Jesus was glorified on the cross by giving His sinless life as a sacrifice for all. He was then resurrected to new life and new glory as King. Jesus rules His people in love, not by force. We love Jesus because He died for us. Because of this, we give ourselves to Christ, by which He can transform us, and enter into His Kingdom.

We cannot believe in any Jesus, but specifically the one who descended from Heaven born to a virgin, who was sinless and without sin, who gave His life freely and willingly for many, who died on the cross, and who was raised again on the third day. This is the Son of man and the Son of God. He is both God and man. This is the One in whom we must believe.

Considering the current state of humanity, which many don't understand, we are fallen creatures who have broken our unity with God. We have severed the relationship with God. We have been seperated from Him. We need to realize this seperation firstly. If we don't realize our seperation and need for God, then we are committing blasphemy. We think we are God!! We need to be convicted and humbled. We need to realize that we are bad and God is good. We need to realize that without God, we are nothing. We need God.

This is the first step. We need to repent. That is why Jesus preached heavily, "Repent." We need to seek a change. We need to turn away from our sins.

The next step is being humbled to the point that we not only realize a need for God, but we are willing to accept God for who He is. There are a great many broken people who believe in a God of their own creation, even in the Church. They have shaped Jesus into their image. They are wolves among the sheep.

We must be willing to accept Jesus for who He is, as given by His testimony, the bible. The bible testifies to Christ, and from it we can learn about Him.

Obviously, reading the bible does not make us born again, and does not unite us as one with God. Otherwise, everyone who read the bible and believed it would instantly be saved. Rather, Paul made it quite clear that once we are broken there needs to come a point when we call out to the living Christ, the one who resides in Heaven. I am sure you have heard the infamous scripture Romans 10:13 "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." Paul is actually quoting old testament scripture here.(Joel 2:32)

In Romans 10:9, Paul says, "if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

There was a time when I thought the cross was all that mattered. In 1 Corthians 15 (forget the verse), Paul says that if Christ hasn't been raised we are to be pitied above all men. The cross was indeed important, but it is in the resurrection that we are saved. Notice in the above scripture that Paul does not say, "If you believe Jesus died for your sins, you will be saved." Rather, firstly Paul established that you must believe Jesus is Lord. This means you must believe in more than Jesus dying. You must accept Him as your King and Lord. You must submit unto Him as the authority and ruler of your life.

The worse lie we can ever tell someone is that they will be saved if they believe Jesus died for their sins. This is only a half truth. You have made them believe they have been saved, when they have not. A person must accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. If Jesus has died for their sins, and they believe this, will they also accept Him?

If Jesus truly died for your sins, the proper response is to give yourself to your Savior in gratitude. "Thank you Jesus for dying. Please, let me serve you in gratitude!!" This means, we accept Jesus as Lord.

The next part spoke of in the above scripture is Jesus's ascension. It is vitally important to believe Jesus is raised. Why? Because Jesus is alive. If you don't believe Jesus was raised, then you don't beleive He is alive. However, we need to believe He is raised and living in Heaven. When we call out to Jesus, we are calling out to a real and living God. We are calling out to someone who will come down from Heaven and save us, here and now. This is a real thing, and a real experience.

In addition to this, the resurrection of Jesus is our hope. When we are baptized, we share in the death and resurrection of Jesus. He was the first. We will follow Him. We will experience what He has experienced. Yes, it will hurt. Yes, we will have to die on the cross. Yes, we will suffer. However, our hope is not for this earth. We will one day be changed in the twinkling of an eye.

Lastly, a note about baptism. True baptism is sharing in the death and resurrection of Jesus. This is where we die and are raised again in Spirit. This baptism occurs by doing just as Paul said in Romans 10:9. Being born again is the baptism of the Spirit. Many others will try to make it out as being two seperate events. Do not be fooled.

We all need to be born again. We all need to share in the baptism of Christ. Our Spirit needs to die and be born again. We need a new life in Christ. We need to be united as one with Christ. This is our purpose, to be one with God in love.

Hope this helps,

In Christ,
Blake

Are you saying that repentance is the mechanism that makes rebirth possible?

Repentance to what?

Does it say repent and you will be saved?

In Christ: Phillip

Phl 3:10 That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable unto His death;

Hbr 10:30 For we know Him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto Me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge His people.

1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, [even] in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and you shall be saved. The Born Again experience then starts. To know Him that is our exchange of Character, Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

1Cr 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

After all that Paul had been given, even to direct revelation by Christ Himself. All Paul still wanted to know Him. May that be our greatest and deepest want also, To Know Him.

Now our repentance means something. By the revelation of Christ in us, we know how to change by the teaching of the Holy Spirit of this Christ that is now our life, even unto our Crucified life with and in Him, we can repent and understand how and what to repent of.

Now we can be baptized and show exactly what has already happened in us. Water gets us wet, but being baptized into Christ by The Father's Incorruptable Seed is our true baptism. Water baptism is a wonderful thing to show those around us by a physical act what has already occurred In us.

In Christ: Phillip

Brother Blake wrote:

This is the first step. We need to repent. That is why Jesus preached heavily, "Repent." We need to seek a change. We need to turn away from our sins.

I have found that repentance is a gift of God which continues as we mature in Christ. Without the gift of repentance we would not know the work that God is doing in our life to seperate us from this world. Without repentance that finds its source as God, one would not understand how the Father is transforming into the image of His Son.

The next step is being humbled to the point that we not only realize a need for God, but we are willing to accept God for who He is. There are a great many broken people who believe in a God of their own creation, even in the Church. They have shaped Jesus into their image. They are wolves among the sheep.

I have found that those 'who believe in a God of their own creation," to be those who have not been fed by the Holy Scriptures. They refuse to believe what the Scriptures say.

There was a time when I thought the cross was all that mattered. In 1 Corthians 15 (forget the verse), Paul says that if Christ hasn't been raised we are to be pitied above all men. The cross was indeed important, but it is in the resurrection that we are saved. Notice in the above scripture that Paul does not say, "If you believe Jesus died for your sins, you will be saved." Rather, firstly Paul established that you must believe Jesus is Lord. This means you must believe in more than Jesus dying. You must accept Him as your King and Lord. You must submit unto Him as the authority and ruler of your life.

Paul states this precept very very clearly in Romans 5:

10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

We are reconciled by His death, but we are "saved by His life."

I am sure you have heard the infamous scripture Romans 10:13 "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." Paul is actually quoting old testament scripture here.(Joel 2:32)

This precept is found thoughtout the OT.

2Sam. 22:7 \tIn my distress I called upon the LORD,
\tAnd cried out to my God;
\tHe heard my voice from His temple,
\tAnd my cry entered His ears.

Job 36:13 \t“But the hypocrites in heart store up wrath;
\tThey do not cry for help when He binds them.

Psa. 5:2 \tGive heed to the voice of my cry,
\tMy King and my God,
\tFor to You I will pray.

Psa. 28:1 \tTo You I will cry, O LORD my Rock:
\tDo not be silent to me,
\tLest, if You are silent to me,
\tI become like those who go down to the pit.
2 \tHear the voice of my supplications
\tWhen I cry to You,
\tWhen I lift up my hands toward Your holy sanctuary.

Psa. 34:15 \tThe eyes of the LORD are on the righteous,
\tAnd His ears are open to their cry.

Psa. 34:17 \tThe righteous cry out, and the LORD hears,
\tAnd delivers them out of all their troubles.

Psa. 57:2 \tI will cry out to God Most High,
\tTo God who performs all things for me.

Psa. 119:145 I cry out with my whole heart;
\t\tHear me, O LORD!
\t\tI will keep Your statutes.
146 I cry out to You;
\t\tSave me, and I will keep Your testimonies.
147 I rise before the dawning of the morning,
\t\tAnd cry for help;
\t\tI hope in Your word.

Psa. 119:169 Let my cry come before You, O LORD;
\t\tGive me understanding according to Your word.
Psa. 145:19 \tHe will fulfill the desire of those who fear Him;
\tHe also will hear their cry and save them.

3 \tYes, if you cry out for discernment,
\tAnd lift up your voice for understanding,
4 \tIf you seek her as silver,
\tAnd search for her as for hidden treasures;
5 \tThen you will understand the fear of the LORD,
\tAnd find the knowledge of God.
6 \tFor the LORD gives wisdom;
\tFrom His mouth come knowledge and understanding;
7 \tHe stores up sound wisdom for the upright;
\tHe is a shield to those who walk uprightly;
8 \tHe guards the paths of justice,
\tAnd preserves the way of His saints.
9 \tThen you will understand righteousness and justice,
\tEquity and every good path.
10 \tWhen wisdom enters your heart,
\tAnd knowledge is pleasant to your soul,
11 \tDiscretion will preserve you;
\tUnderstanding will keep you,

Yes truly the Holy Scriptures teach what comes to those who call on the name of the Lord.

Just some Scripture to illustrate the work of the Holy Spirit in the lives of His saints.

In Christ
Jeff

To be born again means to receive something i.e eternal life. This life is the new life begun by Jesus by virtue of the resurrection - it never existed before that.

1 John 5:11-12 And this is the record that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life, and he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.

Since we who are trinitarians believe the Father = the Son = the Holy Spirit then it doesn't matter who you get - it's all the same - you get one you get them all.

Who has the son/father/spirit? I think this was the same question the early church asked. Who is in the church? Who is with us and who is not?

In Acts 10 Peter somewhat reluctantly preached to the Gentiles at Caesarea who had been seeking God but did not know Jesus. Peter shared the gospel and "the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word" Peter knew them because the gift of the Holy Ghost was poured out and he "heard them speak with tongues and magnify God" Peter was astonished and said "Can any man forbid water, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" He asked this same rhetorical question when he returned to Jerusalem and reported to the Church and elders that "Forasmuch then a God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Chirst; what was I, that I could withstand God? When they heard these things they held their peace, and glorified God saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life?

Some have argued that because of the manifestation of the speaking in tongues as the sign then of the Holy Spirit - which signified unity and oneness of the church, that this should be the same today - I don't think so. Perhaps it was only for that crucial period in the beginning when "Christians" wanted to know who was with us and who was against us.

Although the manifestation may not be the same, the issue still is - who is in the church and who is not? Some want to leave it out there and just let it be the "invisible body of believers in the air" Although this might be true, we live in flesh and blood - don't we need to know? Of course this is now an issue that divides rather than unifies. Perhaps it isn't so important "how" we recieve but that we "have recieved"

If we don't know from tongues - how do we know? I submit it is by both fruit and response to the light. What does that mean? Well if the fruit is apparent (love, joy, peace, patience, gentlenss, goodness faith, meekness, temperance, goodness, righteousness, and truth) and the individual confesses Christ - we really don't have a problem - it is those that confess Christ but their lives fail to conform to what they say. We are content to call the "carnal Christians" I say anethema - that is a travesty and an affront to God - we are not Carnal but Spiritual. Paul was not a carnal Christian - he did not fight this battle in his mind - Romans 7 means before the Holy Spirit - before Christ - the ineffectiveness of the law in producing righteousness - it is not enough to know what is good - you must have the power to do so - it is not by imitation but impartation.

Perhaps we should return to John 3 - everybody's favorite - but verse 19 - "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every on that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deed should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

I think it's the same before conversion, and possibly after alleged conversion. Doesn't Matthew 18 give us the process to determine how the church is to respond to someone who has the light shined on them regarding deeds and how they respond. It says that if they won't "hear" the Church , they should be treated as if they were an unbeliever. This then becomes the test - how do we respond to the light of the Lord shined on our lives after "conversion" - are we with the wise who when Prov 9 Rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee. Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser, teach a just man, and he will increase in learning. However Reprove not a scorner lest he hate thee. Prov 15:5 He that regardeth reproof is prudent, and Prov 17:10 A reproof enterth more into a wise man than a 100 stripes into a fool.

What is reproof - voicing disapproval. Doesn't Ephesians tell us in Chapt 5 "to prove what is acceptable unto the Lord and have no fellowship with the unfruitfulworks of darkness, but rather reprove them. ... But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. Paul tells us to Walk worthy, Walk in Love, Walk as Children of Light, Walk circumspectly, and Walk in the Spirit. Galatians tell us in Chapt 6 - Brethren if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, resore such an one in the spirit of meekness ; considering thyself, let thou also be tempted.

He doesn't say don't do it - just do it in humility and meekness,and proving ones own works.

So what I am saying hear is that we have to have a voice - to ourselves (Romans 7 - the log in our own eye) to others individually - and from the Church.

If we are willing to walk in the light as he is in the light - when we see sin revealed, illuninated, exposed, discovered, pointed at, evident, we will repent - joyfully as at the first - in the freedom we enjoy, as fully sanctified souls fit for purpose to do God's will as he see's fit.

If we retreat into the darkness - doesn't that reveal who we are? Of course if we never speak the truth specifically to ourselves and to others - how will they know?

Of course avoiding conflict and all appearances of being "judgemental" keeps many of us from speaking the truth in love. Ephesians only says "Let no corrupt commmunication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good, to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers". It is interesting that although we often interpret "edify" as to build up - but it also means to "enlighten".

Paul speaks much of this to the issue of "Endearvouring to keep the unity fo the Spirit in the bond of peace." Perhaps we should do a better job of fighting for unity by correctly separating light from darkness - something those that are so "tolerant" refuse to do.

And God said, Let there be light, and there was light, And God saw the light, that it was good, and God divided the light from the darkness.

We must learn to do the same.

Now must we talk about the wheat and the tares???

Dear Jeff,

I have found that those 'who believe in a God of their own creation," to be those who have not been fed by the Holy Scriptures. They refuse to believe what the Scriptures say.

I know many people who have made a God of their own creation from the scriptures.

If a person does not have the Holy Spirit, how should they ever interpret the scriptures properly? Only the Spirit can reveal to them the truth, the Word of God.

Many people, including Christians, use scripture to promote selfish and personal agendas. It is sad but true. This is why we need a close and personal relationship with Christ, where we have abandoned everything to Him and He can work in us. If Christ is not allowed to work in us, then we will be lead wayward.

It is of utmost importance that we, as Christians, daily take up our cross and follow Him, the risen Savior.

In Christ,
Blake

Dear Phillip,

I think you are responding to my post. I hope so.

Are you saying that repentance is the mechanism that makes rebirth possible?

No, I am not saying that. Such a saying sounds robotic, as though there is some formula we can follow and poof, we are saved.

Rebirth is completely and totally by the power of God. We are speaking of His mercy and grace. However, the Lord has given us all a choice. Will we seek Him?

The reason I say repentance is the first step because of what it represents.

When Adam and Eve ate off the tree, they were seperated from God. The Lord was no longer "their " Lord. They were no longer submitting unto the authority of God. Instead, they could choose anything to be their Lord and God.

This is the state of us all. We have replaced the true God with a false God. We have made ourselves to be God, or something else entirely. This, of course, is a most grevious offense to God. We are committing blasphemy, making ourselves to be God.

Before we can seek the true God, we first have to realize this demise. We have to realize that we are a sinner. We have sinned against God. We have to realize our place.

When we can see our own sin, and see that we have wronged God, then we can seek to change.

Repentance is the first step because in that moment we realize or see our sin, and we seek to change.

Obviously, repentance is not completed until we are changed. To repent means that we change, we turn from our sin. Repentance begins when we seek to change and is complete when we do change. We cannot change until God changes us. And so, when we are born again, we have repented.

Repentance to what?

The question should be "to whom." And the answer is Jesus Christ. We should turn from our sin to Jesus.

Does it say repent and you will be saved?

I cannot think of any scripture that says this exactly. However, Jesus was quoted as saying...

Luke 13:3(NAS) "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

Luke 5:32(NAS) "I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance."

Paul also said,

2 Corinthians 7:10(NAS) "For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death."

In love,
Blake

Question: If I say I am saved and I point to the Jesus as the reason, am I born again?

Question 2: If I profess the born again experience, am I a disciple of the Jesus?

I would like to respond even if you were not speaking to me. These questions raise an important issue. I will state it loudly, hoping everyone will here.

THERE IS NO FORMULA FOR SALVATION THAT A PERSON CAN FOLLOW TO INSTANTLY MAKE THEMSELVES BORN AGAIN OR BY WHICH WE CAN JUDGE. AS SUCH, THERE IS NO WAY ANY OF US CAN KNOW OR TELL IF A PERSON HAS BEEN OR IS OR WILL BE BORN AGAIN. ONLY GOD CAN SEE THE TRUE SPIRIT OF A PERSON.

I have stated this, not because I feel anyone has judged anyone, but because it must be made clear. We cannot know another person's salvation. We do not know. We can make a guess, but we must be careful not to judge. Only God knows whose names are written in the book of life.

The questions Ormly asked call us into this role of making a judgement call. "Am I born again?" No person except for God and Ormly can answer that question. We cannot say who is born again and who is not. We cannot be a judge of those matters. That is God's place and God's determination. We are not the judge. We cannot judge.

This does raise several questions.

1) How can I know for sure that I am saved, that I have been born again?

2) Jesus said to beware of wolves and false teachers. How can we beware of these, if we are not to judge?

3) How can I know if another person is saved or not? I need to know if I am going to spread the gospel.

All these questions have long answers, in order to adequately address them. I will attempt to give a short answer.

1) The confidence of salvation comes from Christ. We are assured by His Spirit. Often times, this assurance doesn't spontaneously arise. For some, it is instant, like lightning. For others, we grow into assurance over many years.

Firstly, never stop seeking the Lord Jesus Christ in prayer and fasting. Continually pray and offer yourself to Christ as a sacrifice. Believe in Jesus and give yourself to Him. When you do, Christ will come and work in your life. You will know and see fruit being produced. Your faith will be refined by fire. You will suffer trials and tribulations. These are given to help you grow in faith. Every trial is an opportunity for God to work in your life. As you grow and walk with the Lord, He will give you testimonies, ways in which He has worked in you and in your life that you can share with others.

There are many other things. The most prominent is that God is speaking to you in His small still voice. Are you listening? Are you responding? Do you have a relationship with Him?

2) Of course, we are to beware of false teachers. How can we? Well, firstly, we must be completely and entirely dependent upon Christ. He is our Lord. If we cannot depend on our Lord to lead us, then we are fools. We need Jesus.

There are many tests and things written about in the bible to help us. I could write about all these, but don't really have space. If someone should ask, I will consider doing so and posting in another thread.

The most important thing to realize is that there is a difference between judging a person's teachings and judging a person. To say a person has spoken in error is different than proclaiming they are a false teacher. Do not be so foolish to call anyone a false teacher. This is a judgment call.

No person is perfect except for Christ. Even the best preachers make mistakes. None have been proven 100% right.

This is why it is so important to have a solid relationship with Christ. He will indeed lead us. He will lead us to the messages we need to hear personally. However, He cannot lead unless we allow Him. We need to be completely abandoned to Christ.

3) This is the great dilemma, is it not? How do I know when to share the gospel, if I cannot judge who is saved or not? Obviously, if we are going to tell a person they need to repent, first we have to judge, or do we?

Of course, like everything else, we need to depend on Christ. Having a strong and solid relationship with Jesus is essential. He is the Lord. He will give us the words to say when we need them, if we are willing to be used. We must be open to Him at all times.

Many people talk about our lifetime calling. However, I believe firmly in our momentary calling. God calls us at different moments to different tasks depending on what He needs. We all need to be completely open in that moment. At one moment, you may be called to sing. In another, you may be called to preach. You might say, "I am not a preacher." However, you may be called to preach to one person, who needs to hear an important message.

We all like to worry about the big stuff and dream of big success and power. However, it is in the small steps that God makes the most success. You never know when the Lord will call you to service, or to what. Be ready and willing by sacrificing everything to Him.

Now, we must be careful at all times not to judge. This means we should not say to a person, "You are not saved."

A person must be brought to repentance by God. The Holy Spirit must convict a person of their sin. Therefore, it is important that a person openly admit they are a sinner. If you go around telling people they are a sinner, this will only upset them. They are not going to stop one day and say, "Oh my, you are right. I am a sinner!!" Rather, it is the job of the Holy Spirit to show them their sin. Let God do His job.

Your job is to be ready for God to use you to share. Be ready to share how God is working in your life. Be ready to share about Jesus, His death and resurrection. Be ready to give love.

You don't have to make any sort of judgment call to do any of these things. There are people who have been born again 40 years that sometimes need to hear the gospel all over again just to keep it fresh in their minds.

When the time comes, we will know. God will use us. And when it happens, we will be spent. Some times, I feel as though a hurricane swept through my body and drained me of all my energy. I then feel like repenting myself, asking God to help me because who am I? I am nothing. Why should God use me?

There is no greater joy and no harder work than being used by the Lord.

In Christ,
Blake

We become born again by believing in our heart that Christ died for us and washed away our sins and by confessing it with our mouth.
The Holy Spirit then starts the conviction of our sinful ways and repentance and forsaking comes in. We then begin to enjoy our new birth of being saved by faith and grace.
God bless you.

That was a goodly amount of writing, Been. However, I don't believe it addressed my two questions. Perhaps you could point to a line or two that I may have overlooked. Thanks.

Question 1: If I say I am saved and I point to the Jesus as the reason, am I born again?

Question 2: If I profess the born again experience, am I a disciple of the Jesus?

No person other than Christ is in a position to say who is born again and who is not. No one other than Christ is able to say who is His disciple and who is not.

That is the answer to your questions.

In Christ,
Blake

Question: If I say I am saved and I point to the Jesus as the reason, am I born again?

Question 2: If I profess the born again experience, am I a disciple of the Jesus?

Ormly, Superb questions – and absolutely vital to the discussion! They are like a grenade that explodes all the neat theological packages we create for ourselves. They explode our own self- delusions.

Let me tell you, for years I knew exactly how to “say” and the “profess” but had no idea that it wasn’t much more than that. And I recall a preacher saying that we should never doubt. Instead we should trust that “stake” we planted waaaay back then when we “got saved”. Really, this has been a general assumption. Asking such questions as you raise are a no-no.

I’m glad that there are people bold enough to blow the bubble. Ex Richard Owen Roberts says, “I don’t care one bit what happened way back then. What’s happening NOW????”

Edit: Our words, claims, and assumptions don't mean much - it's the real thing that counts.

Diane

I hope I am not stealing Beenblake’s thunder (in response to Ormly's question. But since I popped in, some things are really hitting me on a deeper level – and I wish to share.

Compare these two quotes:

If you are born again, the Spirit of God makes the alteration manifest in your actual life and reasoning, and when the crisis comes you are the most amazed person on earth at the wonderful difference there is in you. There is no possibility of imagining that you did it. (Chambers)

and

No one other than Christ is able to say who is His disciple and who is not. (Beenblake)

Of course the Lord knows for sure who are his. Yet, I wonder if the second quote is a reaction to the perpetual problem of misdiagnosing – where a MAN does the pronouncing and NOT the Spirit.

I’ll bet that the vast majority of those who believe they are saved believe it because they have been told by religious leaders. And then over the years the illusion is perpetuated and strengthened by either themselves or the church.

The fleshly man seems wired to evaluate itself based on what others tell it. Let's face it, if someone tells you enough times that you are such-and-such, don’t you believe it? Yet, that doesn’t hold when it comes to salvation. It never was meant to.

Scripture is loaded with precautions for avoiding this tendency of making false assumptions. We know them: the Spirit bears witness with us….. by their fruits…… those who persevere are saved… those who walk away are not …… and many more. So why do these explanations keep getting overlooked?

I think it is because those who make false conversions really keep on trusting in man – just as before. True believers do not. Instead, they rely on the Spirit and the inner witness. The test of time reveals the fruit.

Diane

What do you all think of these
gospel explanations? I think we
must take John 3:16, Luke 13:5,
Romans 10:9-10 and other verses
as a lump sum. We need to use
the principles from the whole counsel
of God. Repentance, trust in
the sacrificial work of Christ,
and submitting to the Lordship
of Christ are all essential parts
of salvation, though I believe
God may work the fullness of these
truths into our hearts over time.

http://www.relevantbibleteaching.com/site/cpage.asp?cpage_id=140002598&sec_id=140001239

and

http://www.relevantbibleteaching.com/site/cpage.asp?cpage_id=140002768&sec_id=140001239

Hi Blake,

Simply stated, I am saying repentance for salvation is of God. When it is said repent and be baptized, it is not of ourselves, it is of God unto salvation in Christ Jesus. In this respect it is not a works on our Part but a works on God's Part by the Holy Spirit and the Birthing of Jesus Christ in the Believer by the Father.

2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Hbr 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

They cannot fall away, They are Christs' and He is our. The first repentance is of God and impossible to loose, lest the repentance if they could fall away would be putting Christ to shame, saying His life and His repentance in the believer is not enough to save them. Thus making the Cross to no avail and week unto salvation by God the Father. Taking it out of God's hands and putting it in the works of the sinner to attain his own salvation by works.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

In Christ: Phillip

Is not repent an be baptized something we do?

Is not believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God something the Father does.

Matthew 16:16-18 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

If The Revelation is connected to the Rock. What is the Church built upon? That Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God.

That revelation is what we are repented to by God not by our agreeing that we are sinful and repent from dead works.

2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Then we can say I was a sinner. What are we to repent of now. 1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. This is past. This is present: 1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because He is born of God.

Man cannot repent unto salvation and never will. How many times did Jesus tell Israel to repent. Did they? Have They? There is only repentance in Christ Jesus and to be in Christ Jesus It takes the revelation of God the Father that Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God. Then we can repent when the truth is revealed to us by the Holy Spirit and He convicts us of Sin, Then we can confess and be cleansed of all unrighteousness.

In Christ: Phillip

Dear Ormly,

Are we to believe, by the simplicity of your stated opinion, that there will not necessarily be a Spirit to spirit comfirmation that will bring the changes spoken of by Chambers?

I think you misunderstood me. I am not saying that a person cannot know their own salvation. If I have been saved, I will know as God will have revealed this to me by His Spirit.

However, your question was "If I say I am saved and I point to the Jesus as the reason, am I born again?"

Just because a person says they are saved, points to Jesus, confesses faith, does not mean they are born again. The determination of this belongs to Christ and Christ alone. I cannot say whether you are saved or not. That is not my place.

A person is saved when Christ saves them. It is that simple. There is no formula by which we can measure salvation. There is no rite of passage that guarantees our salvation. Being born again is a choice of God. He decides who is saved and who is not. We ask to be saved. He decides whether or not to save us.

You asked me, "Am I born again?" and "Am I a disciple of Jesus?" These questions I cannot answer. I am not Jesus. I cannot tell you whether or not you are saved, born again, or a disciple of Jesus.

If any person doubts their salvation, they need to work that out with Christ, the Savior.

In Christ,
Blake

New birth is not the Holy Spirit, new birth is the Spirit of Christ in you, which is not the Holy Spirit, but an exchange of life spirit, our old father Satan out, our new Seed of the Father born in us, which is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

In Christ: Phillip

Ormly wrote

My Bro. Been,Our difference is a fundamental one. It lies with my believing the new birth is something apart from initial salvation. I realize I won't have many friends with this view but nevertheless, that's my position.

Respectfully,

Linda

What does it take for a child to be born? It takes a receiving embryo and a Father's Seed. Are we not born again of Incorruptable Seed.
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Who give the Seed, which is Christ? Who is the Word of God? Jesus Christ is the Word. Who is our life? "It is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me". How do we live this new live? "The life we not live we live by the faith of the Son of God"

All could receive the Holy Spirit as He came upon them before Pentecost. After Pentecost "He will be in you". Who sent the Holy Spirit to all before the Cross. Who sent the Holy Spirit to be in you by the Prayer of Christ to the Father. Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Christ is the New Birth, the Holy Spirit is the One that Seals us into Christ and then The Holy Spirit becomes our Teacher of this Christ that is not in us. The Holy Spirit is in Charge of renewing our soul mind to the Mind of Christ that the born again possess.

In Christ: Phillip

Ormly wrote

new birth is something apart from initial salvation.

In Paul's case, for instance, on the Damascus road, would this be so? Would you say there was an interval between initial salvation and new birth?

Linda

Ormly wrote

new birth is something apart from initial salvation.

Do you mind if we go over this again? So, in regards to the distinction made here, what do you believe takes place at the initial salvation and what takes place at the new birth? (Setting aside the death bed situation, if that is a correct thing to do).

Linda

Clarify please what initial salvation is, and birthing.

If we cannot see the things of the Kingdom of God unless we are born again. What then is initial salvation? Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Is not salvation a implementation from the Kingdom of God. Salvation is an exchange of nature. From Satan in you to Christ in you. From Satan nature unto death, to Christ nature birthed in you unto life eternal with God our new Father. Colossians 1:27-28 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Perfection is Christ. Christ born again in the believer is perfect. This is initial salvation and the birthing unto eternal life. Working out this salvation comes by the Holy Spirit renewing our old man mind to the new creature mind of Christ.

1Cr 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Therefore: Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

This is working out our salvation with fear and trembling.

I don't know how you can separate the new birth and initial salvation. One must accompany the other or the Temple of the Holy Spirit cannot be quickened and the Spirit cannot be the Spirit and Mind of Christ.

Is this not Christ in you the hope of our salvation making them be to power and pleasure of Gods will, not ours in trying to make the Holy Spirit Christ. Ephesians 1:17-19 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of His power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of His mighty power,

In Christ: Phillip

by Christinyou on 2006/9/11 4:15:43

Clarify please what initial salvation is and birthing.

This distinction came from a previous posting of Ormly, but it is yet to be clarified.

In order to shed some light on my own experience I began to question it. I came across a handbook in my own possession, on salvation, by Harold M Freligh with a forward by A W Tozer, called "Newborn".

The different stages are set out and I will attempt to put it simply (though the whole thing is quite a lovely explanation of salvation and was written for teaching on the subject, in order to clarify the different stages of salvation).

He calls the born again experience that and also regeneration.

The definition of regeneration: "is that supernatural and instantaneous change wrought by the Holy Spirit in the nature of the individual who receives the Lord Jesus Christ".

All the stages of salvation are set out. Here I mention only what he wrote on regeneration. After conversion comes regeneration. Conversion being a spiritual change involving one mentally and morally, affecting the will. A heart conviction that changes one's whole outlook and course of action.

There are human and divine sides in regeneration of the individual. It is a divine act. A hindrance to regeneration is pride, man must come as a little child. Regeneration comes through believing God's written word, resting on it and Jesus himself. This must come from the heart.

Regeneration comes through receiving Jesus Christ, which involves the will. An act of faith.

On the divine side of regeneration it is of God that one is born again (john 1:13). Birth by the Spirit (John 3:6). It is the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost (Tit 3:5).

Christ enters the opened door of the heart and makes His abode there.

God uses His Word in the work of regeneration He begat us with the word of truth (James 1:18).

Also regeneration is a mystery. "The wind bloweth where it listeth....". It is difficult to explain the operation, but we can experience it.

Evidence of regeneration:

The believer escapes corruption that is in the world, because of new nature within; overcomes the world (1 John 5:4); is delivered from sin (as a practice, not a single act). A regenerated being loves God, the centre of interest goes from self to God (Rom 5:5). Love of the bretheren follows (1 John 4:20)and he keeps His commanments.

He states that the means of transformation is by keeping our eyes upon Christ Jesus. Regeneration is divine.

Personally I find this quite helpful in explaining my own journey, I hope it does the same for others.

Linda

Ormly wrote

I delighted we have agreement.

I delighted light has been shed. :-)

Linda

I think this is all simple... Either be perfectly sinless all your life and be as righteous as God....

Or fall at God's only solution and

Repent, believe, have faith in God, trust Christ's sacrifice, be "Born Again" (or regenerated), follow Christ, obey God, love God, know God, seek God, fear God all the days of your life. Do all these things with all your heart, mind, soul and strength (Provided by God). Salvation is by Grace, through faith, in Christ Alone. Be converted!

Or in plainer words...
Have God save you.