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Heavenly minded no earthly good?

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sermonindex

In my short nineteen years of being saved one of the things I've noticed is christian "buzz" phrases. One of those phrases is "Don't be so heavenly minded that you are of no earthly good." Now I know that in one sense, this makes sense. However, I have seen it used against christians by other christians who really don't know what they are saying. Often the one saying it is actually,"So earthly minded they are no earthly or heavenly good." The way I have seen it abused is let's say there is a brother who is really set apart unto God. He witness all the time, Prays' reads the word dose'nt partake of the wordly,"lust of the flesh ,lust of the eye's boastfull pride of life" stuff. Well then a christian who is more of a partaker of those things in his misguided thoughts of "I will win them by partaking with them" (ex. going to bars, going to R rated movies, Hitting the rock concert scenes, etc etc. And when I give those examples I mean getting drunk or buzzed, actually enjoying the filth on the screen or really enjoying that Def leppard concert etc.)He is the type who will look at the more set apart brother and say "Ah he's so heavenly minded....." and then will say He's not reaching them like I am. Well guess again.

The scriptures are repleat with, "seek first the kingdom of God" "set your mind on things above not on things of the earth" etc. God is basicaly declaring that if you are truley heavenly minded you will be of the utmost earthly good!!! One of my/our problems is we are not always heavenly minded or walking in the Spirit. We are not always " approaching the throne of grace in our time of need,(which is in heaven).

Well I know that somebody will want to take issue with this post. I hope I am wrong. if this post is a "doudtfull post" then perhaps it should be ignored As opposed to festering arguments. I won't be offended if this post is ignored. But if there is anything true in it for anyone then take it and be blessed and keep on going with God! God bless, John

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sermonindex

Not me. I'm on your side.

Take it a step further... How can you be of any earthly value to the Lord unless you are completely heavenly minded?

"Let this Mind be in you as it was in Christ Jesus".

If you have His Mind then you will know the "Shepherd of your soul"


:-)rm

E
enid

I've had that phrase said to me, to which I replied 'whatever that means'. I got no answer. What does it mean? Sinners never say it, they couldn't care less. It is always said by those whose commitment to Christ is almost zero. They still love this world, but don't want to go to hell, so they kind of go to church, but, there are too many other things they love, like their sin, that they don't want to give up, not even for God, because they don't believe He is worth the bother.

The word of God tells us the carnal mind is enmity with God.

Ehp 2 tells us that we were...fullfiling the desires of the flesh and of the mind and were by nature children of wrath...

Romans 12 tells us ...be transformed by the renewing of your mind...

The most heavenly minded person whoever walked this earth was the Lord Jesus Christ. His desire was to do His Father's will. Let us be the same. God bless.

M
MrBillPro


Ormly wrote:
Not me. I'm on your side.
Take it a step further... How can you be of any earthly value to the Lord unless you are completely heavenly minded? :-)rm

Jesus was both Heavenly minded and earthly good.

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Sentry

Years ago, when I was young in the Lord, and had a zeal and fire for Godly things...a Pastor said this to me.

He said it kinda jokinly...but it hurt me deeply.

Years later, his Church split. Now I know...I would much rather be Heavenly Minded.

N
Nellie

Amen, John.
God Bless you.
It is impossible to be too Heavenly minded.
May we all seek to be more Heavenly minded.
Nellie

S
sermonindex


MrBillPro wrote:

Ormly wrote:
Not me. I'm on your side.
Take it a step further... How can you be of any earthly value to the Lord unless you are completely heavenly minded? :-)rm

Jesus was both Heavenly minded and earthly good.

What part did I get wrong??

M
MrBillPro


Ormly wrote:
What part did I get wrong??

You got no part wrong, I was just using what you said to set up what I said, sorry I guess I should have posted this in that post also, maybe I need to elaborate a little more in my posts but I am just a good old country boy from Texas but I try my bestest. :-?

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PaulWest

Hey, while we're on the subject, what about this beauty:

"I'm just a thief-on-the-cross Christian."

I had a guy tell me that while using swear words and telling dirty jokes. His point was God accepts him [i]just like he is[/i], like God accepted the thief on the cross. No need to change and try to be a phony religious person.

The difference between this guy and the [i]real[/i] thief on the cross, was a cross. Both were thieves, but only one was on a cross. I've actually heard this sorry phrase a few times, and each time it was spoken, the person saying it was living in clear rebellion to God. I'd wager the same with most people who remind us: "Don't be too heavenly-minded." What! How can a born again person say such a thing! All I want to [i]do[/i] is be more and more and more heavenly minded! What else is there to set your mind on? The corruptible things of clay and flesh? Mortal vanities?

If you get a true heavenly vision, the Spirit will direct your attention back down here to where lost sheep perish. No one will have to remind you.

S
sermonindex


MrBillPro wrote:

Ormly wrote:
What part did I get wrong??

You got no part wrong, I was just using what you said to set up what I said, sorry I guess I should have posted this in that post also, maybe I need to elaborate a little more in my posts but I am just a good old country boy from Texas but I try my bestest. :-?

Whew!! You had me worried for a while :-D

S
sermonindex


PaulWest wrote:
Hey, while we're on the subject, what about this beauty:

"I'm just a thief-on-the-cross Christian."

I had a guy tell me that while using swear words and telling dirty jokes. His point was God accepts him [i]just like he is[/i], like God accepted the thief on the cross. No need to change and try to be a phony religious person.

The difference between this guy and the [i]real[/i] thief on the cross, was a cross. Both were thieves, but only one was on a cross. I've actually heard this sorry phrase a few times, and each time it was spoken, the person saying it was living in clear rebellion to God. I'd wager the same with most people who remind us: "Don't be too heavenly-minded." What! How can a born again person say such a thing! All I want to [i]do[/i] is be more and more and more heavenly minded! What else is there to set your mind on? The corruptible things of clay and flesh? Mortal vanities?

If you get a true heavenly vision, the Spirit will direct your attention back down here to where lost sheep perish. No one will have to remind you.

But isn't that whole mindset of the contempary church in music and dress?

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PaulWest

But isn't that whole mindset of the contempary church in music and dress?

Yes, and this guy just came right out and professed it! He didn't attempt to cloak it with contemporary religiosity or anything "churchy". Gotta give him kudos for that, I suppose. He just came right out and said it. I mean, the foul words, the dangling cigarette, the haughty look, the sexual innuendos, the defensive tone - it was all there in unabashed glory. And he said:

"I am a thief-on-the-cross Christian."

The car salesman that sold him [i]that[/i] lemon ought to dig a hole and bury himself.

God have mercy.

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sermonindex

More than once brother Paul, while ministering on the streets I've been told,"Hey man God hates the sin but he LOVES the sinner" .The meaning that they were putting across to me was I can sin,(on purpose) and it's o.k. God understands so there's no need to repent...gotta go dude"

This is another saying that while in a sense true it is not beneficial to use it as a buzz phrase. It is so easily redefined in the persons mind as meaning something faaarrr from what the speakers original intent was.

I suggest the more biblical John 3:36 ...those who beleive not, the wrath of God abideth upon them." God bless, John

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sermonindex


thingsabove wrote:
More than once brother Paul, while ministering on the streets I've been told,"Hey man God hates the sin but he LOVES the sinner" .The meaning that they were putting across to me was I can sin,(on purpose) and it's o.k. God understands so there's no need to repent...gotta go dude"

This is another saying that while in a sense true it is not beneficial to use it as a buzz phrase. It is so easily redefined in the persons mind as meaning something faaarrr from what the speakers original intent was.

I suggest the more biblical John 3:36 ...those who beleive not, the wrath of God abideth upon them." God bless, John

Not good to use it at all if can be understood that the "loved" sinner will one day, face God's judgment.
It should also put the cabash to that spoken by the "humble" Christian, "I'm only a sinner saved by grace".
:-(rm

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sermonindex

Very good point Ormly. I will add to the overall discussion that we must be aware of how things are understood by others. The minister should always take the time to explain what he means and "what he does not mean" when he preaches on almost anything.

Walter Martin said in witnessing to a cultist, that you must first define your terms. A mormon will often shake thier head in agreement with you when you speak about salvation. This can throw the christian off,"what's going on here?"
However the Mormon has a diffrent definition and understanding of how one receives salvation than the true Christian has.

Similarly Finney when going to debate the local "universaist" laid some ground rules for the discussion. One was that they would stay on one topic at a time till it had been thouroughly delt with, then move to the next point. Within that Finney would define what is and is not meant in a certian teaching.

All that to get back to this. We must be aware that certain phrases we "parrot" to each other and to the sinner convey the wrong idea that God is ultimatly trying to get across. Having said all of this I acknowledge that I still fall short in this area from time to time. God bless, John

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sermonindex

Thanks John, occassionally I come up with something that resonants, aside from your exception, not to often on forums.
However, when dealing with the Mormon, and I have from time to time, all one needs to quote from scripture is this verse:
".........that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established." Matthew 18:16 (KJV) [this verse many times elseware in scripture]

Question: Who were the witnesses with Joe Smith when he received the rose colored glasses or whatever it was he was supposed to have received?
......They leave very exercised.

Orm

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crsschk

Would resist this but it needs to be addressed, again;

Thanks John, occasionally I come up with something that resonants, aside from your exception, not to often on forums.

Perhaps it's you?

What is it sir that you seem to have so much trouble with here and yet still keeps you coming back to leave traces of ill will? (that I am sure you will again deny as just another misunderstanding)

Time and again, a little barb here, a snide comment there. Many a member here has asked you for a clarification on a matter and you either ignore it or belittle them. You come across as being above it all and above all, other than the rare exception in your estimation. Do you fail to recognize, with all the experience you have how much real help you could be providing to the body if it was bereft of this spiritual pride that you will not acknowledge?

More so, this is a privilege offered here to all, to learn and grow and fellowship. Has it escaped you that very ones you disregard are at various stages of this walk, this one included? You show little to no compassion nor consideration for the good people who come here to learn, share and wrestle with the great truths of the faith. Why not be of some help? There is an underlying bitterness and arrogance, a flippancy and spiritual pride just back of your comments almost without fail.

If this forum is so distasteful to you I suggest you start one of your own.

Phi 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

If this seems to be a bit too much to others out there, one of the reasons is from what we have experienced here in the past. When there becomes situations where members want to begin forming off into little clicks by those they agree with and denouncing those they do not, we will step in every time to break this up. It will not be tolerated here. This may or may not be the case in this instance and am insinuating nothing of the sort by that statement. But when the indications keep cropping up of even that possibility it will be addressed.

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sermonindex

I think that, 'Too heavenly minded and no earthly good,' is one of the most stupid things I think I've ever heard.

Now you may say, 'Hold on brother, isn't that a bit strong?' I don't think so. If you aren't going to be heavenly minded, then what are you going be? The only other option is earthly minded in my opinion.

The problem with present-day Christianity is that we are content with where we are. I am not. I am not happy with my current state of Christianity. I want to know God more. How do I do this? By being more heavenly minded.

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MrBillPro


richardf wrote:
The problem with present-day Christianity is that we are content with where we are. I am not. I am not happy with my current state of Christianity. I want to know God more. How do I do this? By being more heavenly minded.


And Brother that is wonderful and I totally respect you for that attitude and if you can do that without trying to make everyone else feel like they should be the same way, and you can respond in the same manner to the threads you post on without forcing your "personal" ways or beliefs on anyone else, Brother to me you are a true Christian. There is a big difference between posting scriptures to help out a fellow Brother or Sister out but when you interject your personal opinions that are by no means scriptural this is totally wrong, I see a lot of that here and I have been guilty a bunch of times of this but at least I have recognized it and with Gods help trying my best to stop.
God Bless
Mr. Bill

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sermonindex


crsschk wrote:
Would resist this but it needs to be addressed, again;

Thanks John, occasionally I come up with something that resonants, aside from your exception, not to often on [b]forums[/b].

Perhaps it's you?


Time and again, a little barb here, a snide comment there. Many a member here has asked you for a clarification on a matter and you either ignore it or belittle them. You come across as being above it all and above all, other than the rare exception in your estimation. Do you fail to recognize, with all the experience you have how much real help you could be providing to the body if it was bereft of this spiritual pride that you will not acknowledge?

More so, this is a privilege offered here to all, to learn and grow and fellowship. Has it escaped you that very ones you disregard are at various stages of this walk, this one included? You show little to no compassion nor consideration for the good people who come here to learn, share and wrestle with the great truths of the faith. Why not be of some help? There is an underlying bitterness and arrogance, a flippancy and spiritual pride just back of your comments almost without fail.

If this forum is so distasteful to you I suggest you start one of your own.

Phi 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

If this seems to be a bit too much to others out there, one of the reasons is from what we have experienced here in the past. When there becomes situations where members want to begin forming off into little clicks by those they agree with and denouncing those they do not, we will step in every time to break this up. It will not be tolerated here. This may or may not be the case in this instance and am insinuating nothing of the sort by that statement. But when the indications keep cropping up of even that possibility it will be addressed.

Please read [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=10431&forum=13&post_id=&refresh=Go]SermonIndex Forum Disclaimer (MUST READ)[/url]

Excuse me, but I used the word "forums", I've been on many through the years. You seem to want my comment to mean this one in particular. But thats OK. Though it is somewhat friendly, and it is, provided one doesn't go deeper than John 3.16 with hope of helping someone sort out the issues they present.

If you have an issue with me it isn't what you are calling, "my pride". I believe if you checked your "subjective-objective" meter you might find it needs calibrating.

I've done my darndest to address every issue objectively only to have the subjective one come against my objectiveness in an unrelenting way -- because it rubs them and they can't handle it.

Learn, that on [u][b]FORUMS[/b][/u], thats just the way it is. You never know who you are "subjected" to until they raise their voice.

:-(

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sermonindex

And Brother that is wonderful and I totally respect you for that attitude and if you can do that without trying to make everyone else feel like they should be the same way,

Everyone else should be. That's not opinion. That's scripturual. What/where is the wrong in what he wrote...scripturally, that is?

:-orm

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sermonindex

Such phrases come from those who look at the sacred as spooky and "way out". I've heard people say to me years ago when I would tell them my experinces in the LORD (these were Christians who have been in the way alot longer than I was) they'd say, "don't get too far out on the deep end", upon hearing that I wanted to go in the deep end if it means getting away from your dead form and ritualism.

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MrBillPro


Ormly wrote:
And Brother that is wonderful and I totally respect you for that attitude and if you can do that without trying to make everyone else feel like they should be the same way,

Everyone else should be. That's not opinion. That's scripturual. What/where is the wrong in what he wrote...scripturally, that is?
:-orm


What did he write is his "particular statement" that I was referring to the was right out of the Word? that is what I mean by scriptural.

Let me make this as clear I know how, Scripture and Opinion are two completely different things we all have seen that with that Get rid of the Tv! thread, and unless I can find a plain direct to the point Scripture like "Do Not Watch TV" I will continue to watch it, see those over there on that TV thread were all opinions.

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sermonindex

'Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. [b]Let us fix our eyes on Jesus[/b], the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.' Hebrews 12:1-2.

'Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable — if anything is excellent or praiseworthy — think about such things.' Philippians 4:8.

You cannot deny, that the absolute greatest thing with which to fix our eyes on is Jesus Himself and the incredible, undeserved glory which awaits us - heaven.

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sermonindex


MrBillPro wrote:

Ormly wrote:
And Brother that is wonderful and I totally respect you for that attitude and if you can do that without trying to make everyone else feel like they should be the same way,

Everyone else should be. That's not opinion. That's scripturual. What/where is the wrong in what he wrote...scripturally, that is?
:-orm


What did he write is his "particular statement" that I was referring to the was right out of the Word? that is what I mean by scriptural.

Let me make this as clear I know how, Scripture and Opinion are two completely different things we all have seen that with that Get rid of the Tv! thread, and unless I can find a plain direct to the point Scripture like "Do Not Watch TV" I will continue to watch it, see those over there on that TV thread were all opinions.


If you believe to be a matter of opinion,
where do you place this in your thinking?

Philip. 4:8 (KJV)
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Generally speaking, can you honestly say that TV aids God's Grace in drawing you to Himself or is it really only something by which we are amused or worse, have our base nature titilated? What does God see in us when we depart from Him for such choices?
Look up the definition of the word "amusement".

:-)

S
sermonindex

You never know who you are "subjected" to until they raise their voice.
Ormly,

Just because a person raises their voice, doesn't mean the person to whom they raised it, has to [i]be[/i] 'subjected' to what they said (or them). A raised voice is a raised voice, that's all. But, [i]what[/i] is being said, and whether it is necessary to raise one's voice to say it, (such as one might justify in the case of 'FIRE!') is, with the meaning of the attitude it communicates, an important attribute of the overall message the other person receives.

You are not the first person to mention other forums, and more than one has commented on the nastiness they've encountered outside SI, which for its unbecomingness to Christians, has driven them away.

In that you believe you bring an objective mind to the conversation here, I hope you will begin to be able to look [i]beyond[/i] the stereotypical mindsets you've found elsewhere and consider there may be more than one way to peel an orange ... and more than one way to divide it, too.

People arrive at where they are by many different routes. Remember, Greg feels led [u]by God[/u] to offer the whole range of theological approaches, through the sermons he accepts. That means there is time for an overdependence on one particular line of reasoning, to be challenged by the thinking of those (brethren and preachers) who have found a different balance.

This reminds me of the preacher who shared about his three sons, at the time, all under 12. One would be disobedient to the point of incurring physical punishment, whereas another was so tender, that only a firm word produced his obedience to it. The important 'hearing' we do here, is that listening out for [i]the word of God[/i] to our hearts (Do you agree?), and in the right atmosphere, (a loving one), people will change - will be changed.

I believe if you checked your "subjective-objective" meter you might find it needs calibrating.
Even so, I think you'd find if you invited observations, that most people [u]here[/u] have [u]had[/u] to make adjustments to theirs since they arrived, to be able to proceed honestly before God.


And you?

provided one doesn't go deeper than John 3.16 [b]with hope of[/b] helping someone sort out [u]the issues they present[/u].
There is nothing wrong with John 3:16, brother. Anyone who follows it up with John 3:17 - 21 [i]as a lifestyle[/i], has nothing to fear [u]from God[/u].

Anyway, these people with 'issues'. Did they ask for help? Did they share your perception that there were 'issues' [i]at all[/i]?

If you had 'issues', would you ask for help on open forum? Are you [i][b]enjoying[/i][/b] having help offered to you as I am, implicitly, now?

Q) How [i]does[/i] one offer help without activating the other person's hackles? ?-)

A) Without them noticing.... that's how.... :-D

I've done my darndest to address every issue objectively only to have the subjective one come against my objectiveness in an unrelenting way -- because it rubs them and they can't handle it.
Ormly,

Surely this statement is purely [i]subjective[/i] on your part? :-o Isn't that the whole 'forums' thing..... that one man's subjectivity is another man's object? Or, as one radio wit quipped, one man's fish is another man's poison?

Every word we write here either requires a context (such as what a previous poster has said), or, an explanation of the parameters [i][b]we[/b][/i] have invisibly [i]in mind[/i]. Otherwise, conversations turn into something closer to fantasy football, than wholesome communication - benfitting no-one.

Ormly, I have no idea how you can post 'I've done my darndest to address every issue objectively', after the string of genuine questions I asked (in A Critical Spirit) which you did not even acknowledge. Any chance of answers, now I've reminded you? 8-)

If so, I might find out what 'issues' I 'present'. ;-)


Oh! There is an old thread which didn't get very far, in the Lounge.... Might you be able to shed some light on the matter... 'Love is not objective'?

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=10708&forum=35]https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=10708&forum=35[/url]

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MrBillPro


Ormly wrote:


Everyone else should be. That's not opinion. That's scripturual. What/where is the wrong in what he wrote...scripturally, that is?
:-orm


Philip. 4:8 (KJV)
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Generally speaking, can you honestly say that TV aids God's Grace in drawing you to Himself or is it really only something by which we are amused or worse, have our base nature titilated? What does God see in us when we depart from Him for such choices?
Look up the definition of the word "amusement".

:-)


You read "way" to much into what I said and also into his statement below:

--------------------------------------------------
The problem with present-day Christianity is that we are content with where we are. I am not. I am not happy with my current state of Christianity. I want to know God more. How do I do this? By being more heavenly minded.
--------------------------------------------------

What I was saying that there is no scriptures in here I don't see one could you please point out a literal scripture in the above statement, do you read more into contracts when your reading them? probably not so why read more into this? he was just stating his opinion is all I read here. ;-)


You can quote or point to scripture with about anything said here "if you try hard enough" or in the world but please don't forget there are still opinions that are valid also that folks use everyday just at face value to be an opinion and not scripture, and what he wrote I took it at face value as being an opinion.

M
MrBillPro


dorcas wrote:

You are not the first person to mention other forums, and more than one has commented on the nastiness they've encountered outside SI, which for its unbecomingness to Christians, has driven them away.

In that you believe you bring an objective mind to the conversation here, I hope you will begin to be able to look [i]beyond[/i] the stereotypical mindsets you've found elsewhere and consider there may be more than one way to peel an orange ... and more than one way to divide it, too.

That is an awesome statement! thank you for posting this.
God Bless
Mr. Bill

S
sermonindex


MrBillPro wrote:

Ormly wrote:


Everyone else should be. That's not opinion. That's scripturual. What/where is the wrong in what he wrote...scripturally, that is?
:-orm


Philip. 4:8 (KJV)
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Generally speaking, can you honestly say that TV aids God's Grace in drawing you to Himself or is it really only something by which we are amused or worse, have our base nature titilated? What does God see in us when we depart from Him for such choices?
Look up the definition of the word "amusement".

:-)


You read "way" to much into what I said and also into his statement below:

--------------------------------------------------
The problem with present-day Christianity is that we are content with where we are. I am not. I am not happy with my current state of Christianity. I want to know God more. How do I do this? By being more heavenly minded.
--------------------------------------------------

What I was saying that there is no scriptures in here I don't see one could you please point out a literal scripture in the above statement, do you read more into contracts when your reading them? probably not so why read more into this? he was just stating his opinion is all I read here. ;-)


You can quote or point to scripture with about anything said here "if you try hard enough" or in the world but please don't forget there are still opinions that are valid also that folks use everyday just at face value to be an opinion and not scripture, and what he wrote I took it at face value as being an opinion.


I have no problem accepting opinion, as opinion nor scripture for what it states to be absolute. One must separate the two. However, one's opinion should be anchored in scripture. The problem with your observation is that you are ignoring context, therefore your observation is weak and can't pick up on the implications. Make sense??

More simply put, his remark: "By being more heavenly minded", goes hand in hand with several verses like: Jeremiah 29:13 (KJV)
"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart."

..... but the great commandment, to be sure.

I hope I am still not mis-understanding you.


:-)rm

M
MrBillPro


Ormly wrote:

Generally speaking, can you honestly say that TV aids God's Grace in drawing you to Himself or is it really only something by which we are amused or worse, have our base nature titilated? What does God see in us when we depart from Him for such choices?
Look up the definition of the word "amusement".

:-)

I have no problem with what you say here but one little thing you keep leaving out the "Internet" also.Why?

I wrote this below on the Get rid of TV thread in case you missed it and I don't know how much better it can be said.

--------------------------------------------------
The Internet and the TV is a powerful, but value-neutral tool. Like a chain saw or a car, it can perform wonderful work or cause untold damage.Use it wisely and well, with Christian determination to do what is right and pleasing to God, and you'll have an excellent servant. Approach it with the desire to seek what is less than good for you, and you'll have a cruel master. Remember, "It's not what goes in to the mouth that makes it unclean, but what comes out." The same holds true with Internet and the TV, I also have a tape around here somewhere it's a sermon on why believers shouldn't have a TV or the Internet, I bought it about 5 years ago at the Baptist Book Store in Houston, I don't remember the pastor but if I can locate it I will post his name.
--------------------------------------------------

M
MrBillPro


Ormly wrote:
However, one's opinion should be anchored in scripture. The problem with your observation is that you are ignoring context, therefore your observation is weak and can't pick up on the implications. Make sense??:-)rm

No sense at all to me, perfect example below as why it don't.

Hey Mrs. Johnson could you please take these proposals to Mr. Davis I feel he would be better to look over them first.

Now there is a perfect statement above were there is an opinion and now can you point me to a scripture related to this opinion?

After all you said one's opinion should be anchored in scripture.

S
sermonindex


MrBillPro wrote:

Ormly wrote:

Generally speaking, can you honestly say that TV aids God's Grace in drawing you to Himself or is it really only something by which we are amused or worse, have our base nature titilated? What does God see in us when we depart from Him for such choices?
Look up the definition of the word "amusement".

:-)

I have no problem with what you say here but one little thing you keep leaving out the "Internet" also.Why?

I wrote this below on the Get rid of TV thread in case you missed it and I don't know how much better it can be said.

--------------------------------------------------
The Internet and the TV is a powerful, but value-neutral tool. Like a chain saw or a car, it can perform wonderful work or cause untold damage.Use it wisely and well, with Christian determination to do what is right and pleasing to God, and you'll have an excellent servant. Approach it with the desire to seek what is less than good for you, and you'll have a cruel master. Remember, "It's not what goes in to the mouth that makes it unclean, but what comes out." The same holds true with Internet and the TV, I also have a tape around here somewhere it's a sermon on why believers shouldn't have a TV or the Internet, I bought it about 5 years ago at the Baptist Book Store in Houston, I don't remember the pastor but if I can locate it I will post his name.
--------------------------------------------------


Internet?? Didn't cross my mind, thats why. TV was the issue. I didn't take it further.

Other than the news, a non-repeat nature, documentary or DIY telecast, etal, what other programs would you suggest as good viewing?? For the most part, what programs, including the above, aren't just waste of time. I'd rather be typing this to you.

:roll: :-D

S
sermonindex

Yet another discussion-turn-argument. Sad to see this happening so much at the moment.

M
MrBillPro


richardf wrote:
Yet another discussion-turn-argument. Sad to see this happening so much at the moment.


This is not an argument unless someone looks at it that way, this is a healthy discussion were we both have our own views, yes even Christians have different opinions or views, and also I want to get my views out, because the God I serve don't want me to be anyones door mat, he wants me to speak up when I feel I might have something valuable to ad any conversation. I am watching to Food channel right now on Lemon Chicken it's been a Blessing to me because I did not know how to make it and I can find that recipe in my Bible.

M
MrBillPro


Ormly wrote:

Internet?? Didn't cross my mind, thats why. TV was the issue. :-D

They call that tunnel vision there is help for that it's called an open mind, we all were not born with one but it can be developed if we allow. :-P

S
sermonindex


MrBillPro wrote:

Ormly wrote:

Internet?? Didn't cross my mind, thats why. TV was the issue. :-D

They call that tunnel vision there is help for that it's called an open mind, we all were not born with one but it can be developed if we allow. :-P

Perhaps I'm just slow.

C
crsschk

Ormly,

An olive branch here. Whatever the case may be, there is something just back of many of your comments that is bothersome. Perhaps it is not pride after all, perhaps it's something getting under [i]our[/i] skin. I will admit as much. You are nowhere near the combative members we have had to deal with in the past. Your admonishen that the calibrating needs re-calibrating, however you termed it, is not far off, I recognize it upon reflection.

The mention of 'forums' as a generality may well get the hackles up a bit due to unfair comparisons I believe. We have worked very hard to weed out the disruptive, the flippant, the poor conduct in word and thought, the idea that anything goes and one can just barge in with guns ablazing amongst many other items.

So forgive the mother hen proclivities, it is a bit of a contradiction on my part to be defending that which really needs none and you have dropped these subtle hints before about not learning anything you didn't already know here. So it shouldn't be a surprise that I would latch on to your comment in generalizing forums to mean this one just as well.

provided one doesn't go deeper than John 3.16 with hope of helping someone sort out the issues they present.

Tell me, is this not another dig though? And do you really believe that this is the case? Or have we again misunderstood you? Not an accusation, it's a real question. It is beating a dead horse, but these are the kinds of things that are left trailing behind. They have the taste of insinuations.

I have reconsidered all this and am only asking you to do the same.

K
KingJimmy

If being so heavenly minded was such a bad thing then the incarnation would not have happened.

S
Spitfire

God doesn't have an opinion. What he thinks defines everything. Jesus was asked his "opinion" on what should be done with the woman caught in the very act of adultery and he just doodled in the dirt. I don't want to give my own opinion. I want to think like God thinks. If the law says that a person caught in adultery should be stoned to death, then, why did Jesus ask us, (her accusers), to let her go free? That was his point, wasn't it? That she go free? What thinking does God have that would override the law? We don't need to know what anyone thinks. We just need to know what God thinks.

Perhaps that's a little too heavenly minded to be any earthly good. ;-) Dian.

C
crsschk

I don't want to give my own opinion. I want to think like God thinks.
We don't need to know what anyone thinks. We just need to know what God thinks.

Yes!
Perhaps that's a little too heavenly minded to be any earthly good.

It's the only minded way to be of any good period!

Well said!

[i] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.[/i] Mar 10:18

S
sermonindex

An olive branch here. Whatever the case may be, there is something just back of many of your comments that is bothersome. Perhaps it is not pride after all, perhaps it's something getting under our skin. I will admit as much

That may be, cannot deny it. However, is it what you deem it to be? More rather, without relationship it can be what you deem it to be. Why? That’s the problem we have on these forums. Words mean something and without a face to attach them to, that we might see an expression, we get into trouble. Both the writer and hearer have to deal with this problem. This is not to say that words do not reveal the other person because they do. They reveal ones understanding or lack of it, obstinacy, arrogance, conceit, immaturity of thought, irrationalism, error in believing about the Lord, willful ignorance, pride, agenda, to name only a few. But in a nutshell, they reveal, “self”. Most just do not like to accept the fact that someone knows more than they do; after all, they bought all the books and their favorite author[s] have said it is this way or that way using select verses of scripture, mostly without context, to support their “opinions” that are presented as being, fact.
You are nowhere near the combative members we have had to deal with in the past. Your admonishment that the calibrating needs re-calibrating, however you termed it, is not far off, I recognize it upon reflection.

To read you saying that is a blessing to me. Thank you. I believe it is part of the gift of discernment, i.e., responsibility for the condition of out own Spiritual bank account. One must see the need to examine himself in all things Spiritual to make sure of his calling whether the pursuit of holiness is unto God or simply to become a shining trophy. “Study to so yourself approved unto God …” implies the admonition “to become a son”. Trophy’s are [i]evil[/i] as in “worthless”.

The mention of 'forums' as a generality may well get the hackles up a bit due to unfair comparisons I believe. We have worked very hard to weed out the disruptive, the flippant, the poor conduct in word and thought, the idea that anything goes and one can just barge in with guns ablazing amongst many other items.

Is that what I did or was it the challenge in my words that provoked? Should not the Christian be provoked? Is the nominal Christian secure in the Lord? Perhaps that would make a good thread topic.

So forgive the mother hen proclivities, it is a bit of a contradiction on my part to be defending that which really needs none and you have dropped these subtle hints before about not learning anything you didn't already know here. So it shouldn't be a surprise that I would latch on to your comment in generalizing forums to mean this one just as well.

Indeed, there has been no sin in this. However, I just reset my meter as well and would ask your forgiveness for any perceived lack of maintainance of calibration.Quote:
provided one doesn't go deeper than John 3.16 with hope of helping someone sort out the issues they present.
Tell me, is this not another dig though? And do you really believe that this is the case? Or have we again misunderstood you? Not an accusation, it's a real question. It is beating a dead horse, but these are the kinds of things that are left trailing behind. They have the taste of insinuations.


I really do not know since I have only one experience on which to make such a judgment, which reinforced that within me. With exception, most do not respond at all leaving me to conclude my thoughts/reflections are not received/understood. However, I checked my meter and it was off a few degrees for which more forgiveness is asked for.

However, make no mistake about it, I will not discuss beyond a certain point or when I perceive willful ignorance/obstinacy. That won’t be a meter problem.

I believe I finally know the way of the cross. Assimilating it into my or anyone's life is what challenges me. John 17 quickly comes into view and must become a way of that life. Too long we have been asleep.

I hope this all will be a help with your perceived understanding[s] of me. And lets not forget, I need prayer just like everyone else.

Thanks for your kind words, Mike.

In Jesus and for His sake,

Orm

C
crsschk

Dear Brother,

I am both blessed and humbled. Thank you for all this, to clear the air and bring forth some clarification ... So much could be said, but will concentrate on the ones that stood out;

Most just do not like to accept the fact that someone knows more than they do;

Goodness, might that always be far from us. How else to grow, to learn, to consider and [i]re-consider[/i]. Just as well, the notions that can be crafted by an assumption ... darn contradictions! The very thing that I often exhort so much about, [i]not[/i] making assumptions, I fall right into ... even if but partially. Forgive me.

Brother, you are very correct about the misgivings granted in this form of communication, know it very, very well. It can be a peculiar paradox as it results in a challenge of sorts .. Will we make our assumptions the rule or go on to ask, correct and clarify? I think this was the sentiment expressed elsewhere by Diane I believe with the [i]I will not let you go[/i], a willingness to get to the bottom of things and not give up due to a mis-communication. Having said that, there will also be that which you spoke of;

Should not the Christian be provoked? Is the nominal Christian secure in the Lord? Perhaps that would make a good thread topic.

Ah yes, this is very much an issue. One of the best treatments I have ever heard is from T. Austin Sparks, even the title alone is telling: "Blessedness of the Unoffended". Have listened to untold times over the years and it is peculiar in how one can take in something like this, getting even more than the original intention from it. But to get back on track for a moment. You are still absolutely correct. There will always be 'offenses' which can be telling of many things, not the least of a lack of security when the perception is [i]personal[/i], are we not yet dead to ourselves? It is a wrong perception indeed that there be no challenges to our opinions and more so, our rightly dividing the word of truth, honesty demands it. There is no egg shell walking, nor pretense, nor fear necessary.

Almost missed something there, 'nominal', you might have something there in that question. Would like to think that most that partake in these things here are beyond the nominal or at least are fed up with a nominal standing and are pressing in to a deeper truth. But to raise the point again, keeping very much in mind the variousness of where each of us are in this walk. That balance in our dealings with each other.

Patience is more than a virtue here, it is very much a requirement, something almost overlooked that you yourself have pleaded for explicitly if not by association. How interesting is it to overlook that because the burr has gotten into the saddle, skewering the perspective ... My apologies and forgiveness sought.

Brother, my forgiveness is given without the asking if that doesn't sound presumptuous. Hard to put it the right way without it sounding the wrong way, but ... [i]I[/i] am rarely offended, would like to say, never offended, but it would prove me a liar. More offended that the things that are offensive in His sight, the grieving of the Holy Spirit, the misrepresentation of our Lord ... our own planks and logs, [i]our[/i] offensiveness to Him can often times be the [i]last[/i] thing we are concerned about ... [i]that's[/i] offensive. It can be beyond uncanny how soon we can lose sight of all our misgivings and great offensives that were put on our Lord ... and we are offended? Goodness!

To read you saying that is a blessing to me. Thank you. I believe it is part of the gift of discernment, i.e., responsibility for the condition of out own Spiritual bank account. One must see the need to examine himself in all things Spiritual to make sure of his calling whether the pursuit of holiness is unto God or simply to become a shining trophy.

Well, it is a blessing to me as well brother. The further I go along the demands of considering and reconsidering are becoming more and more astute. I fully recognize how much still is in error and needs correction. The willingness is there, it is welcomed, the lack of a reconsidering is a puzzlement to me often times here. The rarity of "I was wrong" or "I had not thought of that", "I have changed my mind" ... To get honest with ourselves and honest before the Lord ... how does one escape it? More so, why would one want to? It's quite absurd, not unlike Adam attempting to hide from God .. to where does one think he might go?

I hope this all will be a help with your perceived understanding[s] of me. And lets not forget, I need prayer just like everyone else.

It does, it has and you have and have had my prayers brother. Please, please do pray for this one, it may be a mark of a lack of humility that I do not often ask for prayers for myself. I need them more than I know.

It is my own lack of praying before speaking here that is always the downfall, usually will recognize it after the fact, re-reading and regretting. Forgive my assumptions and earlier ... try as I might, motivations aside, they were accusations, they were wrong and I was wrong to put them out there. I did not pray, the one thing I ought to be doing at all times and especially before speaking here.

Thank you brother, thank you very much.

M
MSeaman

I agree with you. this is a phrase my husband uses, but makes no sense to me. it is also not Biblical....

God Bless

M
MrBillPro


MSeaman wrote:
I agree with you. this is a phrase my husband uses, but makes no sense to me. it is also not Biblical....

God Bless


Sure it's not Biblical it can't be, because like I said in an earlier post Jesus was Heavenly minded and also earthly good.

S
sermonindex

Crsschk,

Thank you for your kind response, my Brother. I needed that.

I know I come to the table bringing a different perspective. However, that is all that it is, different. Why do I say different, or why might you, is because the one I began with did not take me far enough with Christ Jesus as I longed for. I did not desire a different perspective but knew there had to be more of Him than I possessed. I learned my first one was but a springboard to reveal other perspectives more perfect in creating a hunger I now cannot satisfy apart from intimacy with the Father. Perspectives should never violate other perspectives. However, it should go without saying that we can cling to the one[s] that give us the most comfort for OUR way of life WE call Christian, begging everyone's pardon in doing so.

You wrote from Sparks: The “Blessedness of the unoffended”. Here is a perspective I dare say has not been considered:

Why would anyone be unoffended unless he was truly dead to self and the Life of Christ Jesus was fully alive in him? To whatever degree self remains, as we attempt to live a life unto the Father, is that part of us that will always take issue with His Truth? It certainly wouldn't be the life Of Christ within us to which Sparks can only be referring. The Christ within us taking issue with the Holy Spirit? Never! What opposes everything we desire to do as unto the Lord or hear/read from other Christian brothers pointing us to the Father, that would cause us to be offended, especially if we cannot deny the word of the Lord has been spoken or written to us? If abiding in Christ means what it says, CAN we be offended by His own words? If we can, who has the problem. From whence does the weakness come since Christ cannot deny Himself....from either Him to me or me to Him.

John puts it another way I believe says the same thing:

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." 1 John 3:9 (KJV)

Does this shed any light on the issues? I hope it sheds light on the "Born Again" issue as well as the issue of being "Heavenly minded".

In Jesus and for His sake,

Orm

BTW, I never read the article from Sparks you make referrance to.

C
crsschk

BTW, I never read the article from Sparks you make referrance to.

Happy to oblige! Here is an old post with link's to both the text and audio;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3196&forum=31#24727]Audio/Text Cojoining[/url] (Blessedness of the Unoffended)

Just to re-address this again brother, mentioned that I also took away from it something not necessarly intended. Recall listening near the same time originaly, another message from Zac Poonen on dying to self, (which one of these day's I will relocate the title of) and you might say the thought's began to blend together. A line from Zac that stuck out was, "What can you do to a dead man? He just lie's there, you can kick him, spit on him..." Much more context needed yet ...

The message from TAS though is much more centered around seemingly or otherwise being [i]put off[/i] by the Lord. [i]"Blessed is he who finds no cause of stumbling in Me"[/i]

Hope that clarify's things a bit.

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