bartle wrote:
before I begin this post, since you cannot hear my voice, let me start out by saying that [b]my tone is NOT combative or harsh, please know that, but I shall speak frankly and to the point[/b].If you wish to consign Steve Irwin to the ranks of the lost, go for it, be my guest, as we say in America. Many many Christians are quite vocal in proclaiming who knows the Saviour and who doesn't.
God knows, we don't, and [b]if you wish to consign me to the ranks of "cutesy" Christian[/b], be my guest in that also, fore you speak rashly and without foreknowledge. Coz those who know me, know that [b]I am anything but "cutesy"[/b].
[b]I refuse to join the ranks of religionists who are so arrogant as to proclaim those "who know God"[/b] and that can be in the religion of Christianity, of Islam, Judaism, take your pick, coz [b]it always the "others" who don't know God[/b].
Bartle,
I have put this large chunk of your post, with emphasis for a very important reason, I don't want to come across as one who is trying to take you out of context, but wish to highlight some points of what you said. Firstly, whilst you are not being combative and harsh, you certainly are being overly defensive. I didn't say that you are being "cutesy" but was referring to a kind of Christianity that is so afraid of offending people, that they won't come right out and say that "sinners are hellbound". I was very careful not to say that Steve Irwin wasn't saved, because that is God's perogative alone. What I did say was that Steve displayed a life that would leave me to question his "salvation" and cited my reasons for stating this. This way it is out in the open, on record, and someone who knew Steve could step forward and defend the "Wildlife Warrior".
I suggest that you reread my post. I pointed out that I have good friends who are both Christian and Conservationists. They view their conservation as a representation of stewardship of God's earth and their respect for God as creator, and don't worship Creation itself, which would be "Idolatry".
So we agree about Greenpeace, great. So then, why are we in disagreement? You've got to admit, when you look at the majority of conservation activists, most are non or even anti Christian. I remember hearing Ray Comfort mentioning his bewilderment of how many conservationists who try to push beach whales back into the sea, at the same time support euthanasia and abortion. Again, I say [b]not all[/b], but I do say most.
While that is true, Scripture is clear that God has ordained the mystery of preaching the gospel to bring about repentance and following faith for salvation, going as far as saying "how shall they believe in that which they have not heard, and how shall they hear without a preacher". There will be many false converts, who have been saying "Lord, Lord" all their life, who will stand before the [b]Judgement Seat[/b] (the Mercy Seat is the place where we are to come to "obtain help in time of need" when tempted, while we are still alive), who will cry out, "Why didn't anyone tell me?" because Christians are too afraid to point out that it is "by there fruit (that) ye shal know" the difference between true and false prophets (Jesus words not mine - Matt 7).
Bartle, you have stepped into a thread where people were comparing Irwin's passion for Conservation with our passion for Souls, and how that should shame us, and out of nowhere have challenged anyone who claim that he is not a Christian on the basis of his Conservation activities. My comments were merely to point out the reasons that I believe that he was not saved, in response to your comments.
In Australia at the moment, anyone who in anyway speaks negatively of Steve Irwin is be torn down as if they had gotten up and admitted that they "support dealing drugs to school kids". Satan so wants us to look at this man as a role model. As Art Katz put it, and I paraphrase, "It's not the outwardly wicked this that we must be wary of, as much as that thing that has the appearance of good, and yet is sinister in nature. This is the basis of deception."
People tend to want to "rubber stamp" people with the label Christian, without considering the consequences of them dying in their sin without Christ. Enough already!!! This isn't some "alternate cultural phenomenon" that we are talking about, it's "Life, Death, Blessing and Cursing" that God had presented in Deuteronomy. He even followed by narrowing down our choices so the we would make the right one, when He said, "Therefore, choose LIFE."
Like I said in my earlier post, if you are going to commit to the view that God alone "knows and we don't", regarding salvation, then make sure you don't tell people that they are saved either. The fact is that we are told how to recognise false prophets, but not how to recognise true ones. Think about that. If that how God would put it, then we should follow his patern by warning those who so the symptoms, and leading them to the Saviour so that they may repent, and receive the witness of the Holy Spirit, rather than propping them up with "logical dedustions based on proof texts" (A.W Tozer).
I quote this statment to show you that I'm not trying to paint a picture that I believe that you are all wrong. My only objection has been toward making unfounded assumptions as to Steve Irwin's relationship with God. That's all. Of course we should go to every opportunity to preach the gospel to the lost, and getting amonst peoples interests and vocations can go along way toward this.
One final point, I don't say this to boast, but to illustrate. I do plenty of interviews with secular media, as I am an artist. [b]There are many times where I don't mention the Name of Christ[/b], not because I am ashamed of the Gospel, or ashamed of Jesus, banish the thought. But it's not germaine to what we are talking about. [b]All the interviewers KNOW that I am a follower of Jesus, oh yes, because its in my art, AND I tell them[/b]. But I also tell them that I don't want a theological discussion, because the secular media LOVES to twist the witness of Jesus and trivialize, marginalize and pervert the Gospel, and I won't allow that, He won't allow that.
This is my point, in Australia, everyday there has been tributes in every newspaper, current affair, and news show, all week. Guess what? Not one mention of Irwin's Christianity. Not one!!! There have been comments from family members, employees of Australia Zoo, interviewers, friends, and not one comment. Fair enough if it was just one interview, and he was worried about his reputation, but everybody loved the guy. He had nothing to lose by witnessing to one person, and yet that one person has not come forward.
You talked about the duck quacking, beware.....many who say "Lord, Lord", might be in serious trouble at the Mercy Seat if they presume to 'know' who are His.
Again, the Jesus' Sermon on the Mount is clear when He described true and false prophets. If people who "presume to 'know' who are His" are in trouble, then so is Paul, John and even Jesus Himself.
I hope you receive this in love, because that is how I intend it. It is dangerous to point to people that display fruit of false conversion, and question their "damnation", because people can look to them and say, "Ahh. That's what a Christian is like." and bring shame to Christ's Name. I'm not trying to question your salvation (although I would suggest that you do a study on Judgement, as you appear to be buying into some common speculative misconceptions regarding this theme). Like I said, if anyone has a story that displays how Steve Irwin was a Christian, and it turns out to be true and relevant, I will retract every comment I've made on the matter (and yes there have been time that I've had to do this. Howver these days, I'm alot more careful as to what I comment on and how I do so).
