Passion Of The Christ

Iff you are interested in helpping promote the movie give me a line at jeff.barron@faithhighway.comIf you have seen the movie at a pastors conference or a pastors viewing tell me what you think.

Go see the commercial.http://www.passioncommercial.com

The official website is http://thepassionofthechrist.com. I'm really excited about this movie, and have been following it for months now. At the official site, check out the "trailer", not the "teaser"...the trailer is longer and shows you more. Also, check out the fan packs they have for free -- you just pay shipping -- to help promote or if you want stuff for your own. It's STRONGLY recommended that if you want to see this movie, that you call your local theater and buy tickets in advanced (group rates are much cheaper). I think that The Passion of the Christ is going to be sold out for at least the first week with the amount of excitement it's evoked. It opens February 25, which is Ash Wednesday in the Roman Catholic calendar.What are your guys' thoughts on it?

thanks mary, i will call ahead to get our tickets. this may lead to a whole new move of God toward His holiness and toward repentance. i know many are praying that this is the case. hopefully it won't be a week or month thing (temporary)like 9-11 was for so many.when 9-11 happened I knew already in my spirit that people would not really change- that it would be a temporary thing- because they fell more on "patriotism" as God - than on the real God Himself.let's pray that this will be different!In Him, Chanin

But beyond all of this my biggest concern is that we are resting on the arm of flesh rather than the power of the Spirit of GodFunny you say this. I was going to mention this somewhere else on the forum.One night in the middle of the night last summer the Lord woke me up and said "Are you willing to give up your place in this world?" then "Choose whom you will serve this day- the arm of flesh or Me- the Living God."I was very sad about this at the time because I though I had already 'died" to much of "self' already. What "place' in this world was He talking about. I think it is anything we "think" we are going to do or are supposed to do. I think it is hiding ourselves in Him and letting him do what He wants with us- not our ideas of what is to be done in our lives.Greg, you may very well be right. I am usually the negative one because of my discernment and i know people get sick of it but in reality-the Lord must work miracles in lives and hearts today. And like that article I posted under Dominionism, I still wonder if it will not play out like the premillenial model where there is not a huge revival (at least seen by human eyes) before the END. There may be a huge revival in the hearts of many who are truly His Church.I wish I knew.In Him, Chanin

I believe we should use every tool that The Spirit of God makes available to let people know of HIS love. The Passion of the Christ movie is just that - a tool. The hope of Mel Gibson, is to use the movie to build a bridge from the movie house to the church house. Let us agree that not one person who sees the movie will be the same. I am a part of the ministry that is promoting the movie. We are partnering with Mel Gibson and produced a commercial using the actual film footage. We also produce 30 second high impact television commercials. These commercials have a 2 fold purpose, to reach the lost and help the local church grow. We help churches air these spots on secular cable t.v. stations like CNN, FOX News, MTV etc. They are powerful!!!Feel free to view our commercial gallery at: www.faithhighway.com (shameless plug huh?) Anyway bless you folks...

Here is an older thread as well:Mel Gibson's "The Passion"

yet another: www.passion-movie.com

Hey Yall,I know of a great website to get some great Gospel Tracts to give out: www.livingwaters.com they sell tracts that preach the Gospel using the Law of God (they aren't just "Jesus Loves You and Has a wonderful plain for your life" tracts). One tract they have is tract featuring the Passion Movie(they would be great to pass out at the theatre). They also have some other very eye-catching tracts at very low prices. It's were I get all the tracts I use in evangelism. Check it out. It is the ministry of Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron: www.livingwaters.com God bless Yalldanielcourtney

Oh, another great place to pick up some passion material for FREE (you only pay shipping) iswww.passionmaterial.com

This is my first attempt ever on this thing, so please be patient if I mess up.We seem to be fairly mature here, so I'll cut to the chase. Let's remember, "Faith without works... Now, consider for a moment our brother Mel has decided to show us his faith by his works. He has cast his bread upon the water and it looks as though, Catholic or not, God is going to bless his socks off. I don't know if you read the brief interview he gave to Brian Goins, Director of Creative Ministries of Insight for Living (Chuck Swindoll), but it's pretty deep!All in all this will be an excellent opportunity for us to share His good news. To quote, " But how much BETTER would it be to seek God by faith and get on our knees and plead for sinners in our churches and communities. " While that certainly has divine merit, here's an opportunity to do both.As far as revival is concerned, I think God may have closed that door to America. Instead, we will probably see more of His letting go of us as a nation. Like the nations before us, who have seen His hand of mercy, we too have turned away. We have relied on our own wisdom and refused to acknowledge God as God. Take heart though, ALL things work together for good to those who love Him and are called according to His purpose. His will will be done (one way or another) on earth as it is in Heaven.

As far as revival is concerned, I think God may have closed that door to America.NAAH, The door is still WIDE open for revival in America.I encourage you to download and listen to some of Leonard Ravenhill's sermons... unreal... the words he was speaking.bless you!!

As far as revival is concerned, I think God may have closed that door to America.If you note in Jeremiah, God still opens doors of hope, even till the last minute. I know that we are on the threshold of a great revival. The Lord said, "I want you to prepare for the revival to come and for the great influx of souls" to me back in 1981 when He showed me the way it would hit the US and I am preparing for it with even more anticipation than I would the birth of a child. Despite what is happening in some of the arenas of our world, I am believing and striving for a move of God that will reverse the tide in our country and know of people all over the country and world who spend all-night prayer meetings with the same purpose. Let's move toward that mark of the high calling!!!soulfire52 wrote:As far as revival is concerned, I think God may have closed that door to America.NAAH, The door is still WIDE open for revival in America.I encourage you to download and listen to some of Leonard Ravenhill's sermons... unreal... the words he was speaking.bless you!!

Here is an update I received through Christianity Today regarding a change at the end of the movie:http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36829

Received the following this morning and felt it was appropriate in light of some of the murmurings surrounding this upcoming movie:Christian Quotation of the DayFebruary 8, 2004 Some misapprehension, I say, some obliquity,or some slavish adherence to old prejudices, may thus cause us to refuse the true interpretation, but we are none the less bound to refuse and wait for more light. To accept that as the will of our Lord which to us is inconsistent with what we learned to worship in Him already, is to introduce discord into that harmony whose end is to unite our hearts, and make them whole. "Is it for us," says the objector who, by some sleight of will, believes in the word apart from the meaning for which it stands, "to judge the character of our Lord?" I answer, "This very thing He requires of us." He requires of us that we should do Him no injustice. He would come and dwell with us, if we would but open our chambers to receive Him. How shall we receive Him if, avoiding judgement, we hold this or that daub of authority or tradition hanging upon our walls to be the real likeness of our Lord? ... George Macdonald (1824-1905), "It Shall Not Be Forgiven" in Unspoken Sermons [1867]_______________________________________________________________ And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven. -- Luke 12:10. _______________________________________________________________Dear friends of CQOD, In the excerpt, George Macdonald is dealing with the idea of the unpardonable sin, a difficult subject at best. In particular, he objects to the notion that the unpardonable sin is an individual act, which was a common idea in his time, e.g., that someone who had committed the "unpardonable sin" was henceforth beyond the pale and could be permanently shunned. Some people have that idea even today. But Macdonald argues that this is inconsistent with the pattern of forgiveness for all other sins, as we know it from Scripture. Rather, he argues, the unpardonable sin must be a persistent rejection of the truth, an attitude that blocks the Spirit from His role of instructing the heart to repentance. The article is well worth reading in whole. See Macdonald's Unspoken Sermons in Believer's Desktop Companion 2004. But this blasphemy about the Holy Spirit (namely, asserting that the Spirit of God is not who He says He is, and is unable to do what He says He can do) is a commonplace in our society today. All the world's assaults on theSovereignty of God amount to this: God does not exist, and even if He exists, He cares nothing for us, and even if He cares for us, He is unable to help us, and even if He can help us, yet He depends in some way on our perfection or reform, and that is not forthcoming. These are the lies of the enemy, and they are trumpeted daily through all our media. Even the best of our public advocates and forums do not support the Body sufficiently in this spiritual warfare in which we are engaged. These times that God has sent to us surely try our hearts and our faith, and that is their purpose (James 1:3). Today, one vulgarity is heaped upon another, as Churches split and the shrill voices of pharisaical legalism raise their cries and their standards. There is no room left in the middle, it seems, where Christians can stand both for truth and for gentleness with those not of the same mind. (There never was any middle ground, not really; it was justuncontested for a while.) The matters that divide believers from one another are often difficult, and perhaps hopeless, to resolve; the matters that divide believers from the world are even more difficult and often must not be resolved. For the world's way, to seek worldly success, is not the believer's way, which leads to the cross. Ultimately, our ways must part. During the Lenten season that begins in a few days, I want to recommend that we turn again to the Word, to the Gospel, and dispel an aggravating myth, that to tell the Gospel story is to accuse the Jews for Jesus' death. Some who so assert cite times past, when this charge was used to justify persecution of our Jewish cousins. It was a lie then and it is a lie now. Let us tell the story straight. Some of the people who consented to Jesus' execution were Jews and some were not, and some who opposed it were Jews, and there may have been some who were not. What difference does it make? None of those people are here today. Frankly, I am never quite sure, at this remove, whom I should forgive and for what, e.g., Judas, but I know someone who is sure. On the cross, Jesus asked the Father to forgive them (who had crucified Him) on the grounds of their ignorance. The Father never says "no" to Jesus, and so they were forgiven -- all of them -- for everything to do with the crucifixion. We can rely on that. And with those words, the best news of all the Gospel, of all the world, the forgiveness of sins through the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, began to become reality. Join me this Lent in studying the written Word (an announcement about a study available through the Christian Quotation of the Day is forthcoming) and praying for the world to come to repentance before its Savior and Lord. RMA_______________________________________________________________Try out Believer's Desktop Companion 2004 -- free download at http://www.gospelcom.net/cqod/cqoddtcb.htmlBe sure to sign up for the BDTC2004 newsletter. _______________________________________________________________CQOD Compilation Copyright 2004, Robert McAnally Adams, CuratorExecutive Director, Arab Vision, Inc.Arab Vision Home: http://arabvision.gospelcom.netCQOD Home Page: http://www.cqod.org/Subscription info: http://www.cqod.org/cqodlist.htmComments and problems: email to curator@gospelcom.net_______________________________________________________________To unsubscribe, e-mail: cqod-unsubscribe@lists.gospelcom.netFor additional commands, e-mail: cqod-help@lists.gospelcom.net

Here is perhaps another viewpoint from Glen Pickren:" I, too, have been getting a queasiness as I have been seeing the hype building. While it sounds like this movie can be used powerfully by the Lord, from the beginning I felt that its target is the lukewarm, complacent Christian rather than the unsaved. This is not to say it may not be used by the Lord for the unsaved, but it is the Christian who professes to believe this story yet often refuses his own Cross that I thought might benefit the most.I had sent the following to a pastor friend yesterday:I have listened to what you have said regarding training the church to explain the Gospel to their unsaved friends and using The Passion as an evangelistic tool. I have read where thousands of pastors are doing the same. This is well and good for we are to have a ready answer for the hope we have within us. My concern is that in orienting the movie to those who are unsaved that we may miss the message the movie has for the modern day Christian, perhaps ourselves. This movie depicts in some way the price that was paid to redeem us, but most of all the love of the Father in offering His only begotten Son for us and the love of Jesus for His obedience to His Father. This is the One who called us to take up OUR Cross and follow Him. Despite the way the Gospel is generally presented today Jesus did not die on the cross just so heaven could be populated by a bunch of ambivalent Christians seeking refuge from Hell. On the way to Gethsemane He prayed "Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." (John 17:24) There is a world of difference in desiring to follow the Lamb wherever He goes and desiring to avoid Hell so as to go to Heaven when we die. I don't know how to present this for the Lord does not want those who follow Him out of guilt. What bridegroom wants a bride who married him, not because of love, but guilt? I just know that if one follows Him down the narrow path there are times it gets very steep and rocky and I find it helpful to remember the cost of the One who passed that way before and in doing so became the Way. My hope is that in our excitement concerning leading those to the narrow gate, we do not forget that there is a narrow path that few find, and that in our hurry we do not lead someone to the broad way.When I was in high school each year they used to show a movie aboutlung cancer which showed surgery of a diseased lung due to cigarette smoke. Each year after the movie all the greasers would be turning in their cigarettes to the coaches, but two weeks later they would all be smoking again. I think we should not lose sight of the fact that movies can powerfully effect the soul while leaving the spirit untouched. Certainly Braveheart did that. The prospect of Christians eagerly leading the unsaved to pray the sinner's prayer (which prayer or procedure is nowhere mentioned in the Bible) while they are in a highly emotional state is a very real one and one that is giving me some indigestion. Surveys indicate that 90% of the "decisions for Christ"made at the Harvest Festival show no evidence of proceeding in the faith, yet if someone later asked them if they had ever "asked Jesus into their heart" many would say yes. As I said, I don't have the answer here, just a concern not to become a stumbling stone and when thousands of pastors get all excited and are quoted in USA Today about the "hundreds of thousands" who will become converted because of this movie, I get queasy and my discernment antenna goes up. I just hope we will approach this prayfully andreverently and not get caught up in the Jabez crowd mentality. I have decided to see this film alone, just me and the Lord, for Ithink we may have some business to do together. I don't think I want to be required to speak to anyone but Him about it for awhile. When He woke me up the middle of the night over six years ago, He showed me the cross in a very real but non-visual way. I experienced His heartache and came to understand that He died not in the way of a crucifixion, in weakness, but in power by the bursting of His heart. I had never known anything at that time of the nature of the cross, but have learned a great deal since then which confirmed this. Jesus died in the manner of a woman giving birth, for that is exactly what occured as He became the "firstborn from the dead." No wonder the centurion marveled and said "surely this was the Son of God." He knew. No man could die like that on the cross. Jesus chose to lay His life down. No man took it from Him. How badly Christians need to see this. How can we not follow this God?"Glen

Chanin,Thank you so much for bringing this to our attention.from the beginning I felt that its target is the lukewarm, complacent Christian rather than the unsavedWhat a pardigm shift in thinking. This brings to mind that subtle temptation to think "Oh, I pray the unbelievers will come to you Lord through this" Which is indeed what we would all like, but the catch is that we come into it with that mindset thinking it is only for 'them' and not for us. Just like when you hear a message and think "Oh, I know who could really use to hear this" and missing ' Thou art the man.'(2Sa 12:7) or 'is it I?' (Mat 26:22)The prospect of Christians eagerly leading the unsaved to pray the sinner's prayer (which prayer or procedure is nowhere mentioned in the Bible) while they are in a highly emotional state is a very real one and one that is giving me some indigestion. Surveys indicate that 90% of the "decisions for Christ" made at the Harvest Festival show no evidence of proceeding in the faith, yet if someone later asked them if they had ever "asked Jesus into their heart" many would say yes."Jesus, change my heart"This is excellent Chanin.

Guys, I'm seriously so incredibly excited. I'm counting down the days, with intentions of seeing it at least a dozen times in theaters.17 days!!!

Me too Mary,Had some leanings towards what Chanin shared with us today in the thought of first seeing it without any preconceived notions.Also, there is going to be an interview with Mr.Gibson on Feb. 16th, I believe with Diane Sawyer,(whichever program that is)about the movie.Don't know the times it is scheduled.

Hey, someone told me that Mel Gibson is going to be in NY tommorrow. I was told that he is going to be at a debate between Michael Brown and a Jewish Rabbi. I know that the debate is going to be happening but the Mel Gidson thing was news to me. I don't know if it is true but I am planning on going.I just happen to be in New York for work all week and will be going to the debate tommorrow evening. I will post an update later in the week to let everyone know about it.In Christ,Mike

Well, I just returned from the debate between Michael Brown and Rabbi Shmuley Boteach in NYC.I don't think I can describe with words how it was so I will just note a few things of interest.First thing is you can go to a web site and get info about it at www.whokilledjesus.comAlso, Mel Gibson was not there so that was clearly a big rumor.The debate was somewhat two sided in my opinion as far as what the focus was. Michael Brown was not focusing so much on the Passion movie but on Jesus Christ being the Messiah.The Rabbi on the other hand was clearly unhappy about the movie coming out and expressed it very very strongly. His focus was on the anti-semitic possibilities from the movie. Also he was saying the new testament teaches that Jews killed Jesus while Michael Brown was saying that it does not say that but says the Jesus layed His life down and that we all killed Jesus.Michael Brown made it very clear over and over that true Christians would never have hatred for the Jews and that the examples that the Rabbi used of past persucution of the Jews by so called Christians meant they were not Christians.There were several hundred people there, standing room only. There were press people there but I don't know from what media source. A couple of them did ask questions after the debate.I also saw Art Katz there. I spoke to him briefly before the debate. He was right up front in front of Michael Brown which I am sure was very encouraging to Mr Brown. Art did tell me that besides his travels he is living in NY to minister to the Jewish community.The may make the debate available on video so if they do maybe we can get it on the site here.Sorry there isn't more for me to add about the debate itself but it goes very quickly and it was hard to take notes so I am digesting it in my mind and heart as I recall things.God bless,Mike

Much thanks Mike!I just couldn't resist lifting this from Mr. Brown's handout:6) “ANTI-SEMITIC” STATEMENTS IN THE RABBINIC LITERATURE?The murder of the elders and Hur, shortly after the Israelites received the Ten Commandments . . . The Sages said: Satan then found his opportunity; for Moses appeared suspended between heaven and earth and they pointed at him the finger, saying, FOR AS FOR THIS MOSES, etc. [Ex. XXXII, 1]. Hur arose and rebuked them: ‘Ye brainless fools! Have you forgotten the miracles God performed for you?’ Whereupon they rose against him and slew him. (Exodus Rabbah 41:7)"Ye brainless fools!"Loved the way he let the scriptures speak for themselves.Did Art mention his thoughts in regards to the movie? Just curious.

What does everyone think of "The Passion" in regards to the recent post by eagleswings? Here is the Tozer article again:http://home.att.net/~sovereigngrace/menace.htmlI believe we need to really study this out in light of God's word. Philip

Philip...think of the types of "religious movies" being put out during Tozer's time....They were inaccurate and highly dramatized. I would compare them to that blasphemous broadway, "Jesus Christ Superstar."Mel Gibson's movie on the other hand...he has put much prayer and petition toward God in regards to this movie, and has strived to make it historically, medically...and most importantly...Biblically accurate. There's a great difference.

They were inaccurate and highly dramatizedI think Mary is right. I've seen some of those old movies and they were almost like cartoons. Not really biblical- lot's of makeup- not very real.I know the Lord can use anything He chooses to make a point. He used a donkey to speak to men- why not a movie?He gave me a message once about the Spiderman movie. Some may think this is "wordly"- but it was no joke. :-) I am not happy about all the hype- but I do think it will speak to some people. It will be different messages for different people.And then, some people may only be affected for a day or so.God works in His own ways.In Him,Chanin

Just to make it easier to keep track of this particular subtopic, here is the original post:"The Menace of the Religious Movie" by A.W.TozerEdit:Just realised you had this linked already Philip.Anyway, it will be easier to follow if the replys are in one place.Thanks everybody.

Mike (crsschk):Art did not speak to the crowd. I spoke to him by myself. I did not ask him any questions really. It was just a friendly, great to see you again talk.I am curious though to hear if Art Katz, David Wilkerson or Carter Conlon speak about the movie at all to hear their perspective. I have not heard it mentioned once though.Mike

I wanted to mention something that the Rabbi said a the debate. He quoted Mel Gibson as saying "my wife is a protestant and a very good person but she will go to hell because she is a protestant". The Rabbi of course was trying to use this as an argumnet simply against Mel and the movie.I was more bothered that Mel would say this and so many are calling him a christian. What does the world or even many in the church today think a christian is?Mike

Art did not speak to the crowd. I spoke to him by myself. I did not ask him any questions really. It was just a friendly, great to see you again talk.Oh I realised that, just on a personal note."my wife is a protestant and a very good person but she will go to hell because she is a protestant". That quote I believe is in this thread somewhere. Taken from an interview. If I remember correctly he is of the 'orthodox' Catholic persuasion, meaning prior to Vatican II which now 'allows' us types to be included in the kingdom.Will see if I can dig it up.edit: it's in another thread, scroll down to 'laholmes' reply:https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=506&forum=35#2672I was more bothered that Mel would say this and so many are calling him a christian. What does the world or even many in the church today think a christian is?We got enough flavors to put Baskin-Robbins out of business.

Mike and Mike (and others),Quote:"We got enough flavors to put Baskin-Robbins out of business."Try the pure vanilla. :-)Quote:"What does the world or even many in the church today think a christian is?"Richard Bennett, an ex-Catholic priest, has done a lot of work in this area. Check out "The Alignment of New Evangelicals With Apostasy" athttp://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles/alignment_evang_apostasy.htmThe audio is also available for dowload here at SI: Alignment of New Evangelicals With ApostasyBy the way, if you go to Bennett's website, bereanbeacon.org, be sure to see "The Invincible Gospel and the Modern Evangelical Lie". It's a remarkable (that's an understatement) teaching tool. (I plan to link it into Lars W.'s post of T.Austin-Sparks' "Which Way are You Looking?" -- the 'inward' look or the 'upward' look.http://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles/invincible_gospel.htmRoger

Thought I would attempt to clarify things a bit here.There are 3 different posts in regards to this movie.Each link will take you to the 'oldest' or first posting:You are here reading this now:Passion Of The ChristThis is an older posting:Mel Gibson's "The Passion"And a related posting:"The Menace of the Religious Movie" by A.W.Tozer

A few tidbits, via email, from another interview.The source of..that's another debate, in another post...PK: The film's depiction of Christ's crucifixion is very graphic. Why did you choose this degree of detail, and what do you hope that will communicate to audiences?Gibson: We have gotten too comfortable with pretty crosses on the wall. We forget what really happened. We know that Jesus suffered and died, but we don't really think about what it all means. When you see and understand what He went through, it makes you feel not only compassion, but also a debt. You want to repay Him for the enormity of His sacrifice. You want to love Him in return.PK: How has making this movie affected your own faith? How has it changed you?Gibson: Making this film is the most difficult thing I've ever done. And watching it is not easy to do. It's difficult, because Christ's Passion was difficult. But in watching it, I've found it's actually purged me. It heals me to watch it.PK: How about the other people involved in the production? How has the powerful, life-changing, and realistic content affected them?Gibson: Our cast and crew were all different races and religions, but many were touched and even changed by the experience. There were agnostics and Muslims on the set who came into an experience of Christ. And there were a lot of unusual things, like people being healed of diseases. One guy was struck by lightning twice while we were filming and both times just got up and walked away. There was even a little girl who was healed of her epileptic fits. This was not your normal movie set."P.S. Roger, I'll take the Vanilla please!http://www.promisekeepers.org/paff/pass/paffpass20.htm

Here's where it originaly came from and the quote:(about midway down the article)http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/980753/posts"We talked of the nature of Gibson's faith, and I asked him about an aspect of Vatican II which has not been much discussed in the debate over his film. One of the council's most significant acts was its Decree on Ecumenism, which declared that all Christians, even those outside the Catholic Church, “have the right to be called Christian; the children of the Catholic Church accept them as brothers.” This effectively overturned the Catholic notion that the only true course to salvation was through the Catholic Church. I told Gibson that I am a Protestant, and asked whether his pre-Vatican II world view disqualified me from eternal salvation. He paused. “There is no salvation for those outside the Church,” he said. “I believe it.” He explained, “Put it this way. My wife is a saint. She's a much better person than I am. Honestly. She's, like, Episcopalian, Church of England. She prays, she believes in God, she knows Jesus, she believes in that stuff. And it's just not fair if she doesn't make it, she's better than I am. But that is a pronouncement from the chair. I go with it.”

Can anyone tell me if the "resurrection" is included in this movie?My daughter and I are tossing around some "breakthrough" ideas.In Him, Chanin

Ok, this is kind of an off shoot from our postings on "the religious movie- menace" thread.My daughter and I were tossing some ideas around and when the Holy spirit is there we can usually get some good revelation.I was voicing my concerns about the movie and that it might be like 9-11. In a month, this movie and it's affects may come and go.Then she said that she still didn't feel quite comfortable with it. I said in what way? She said that it may be fine for the "non deep" christian that needs to see it.That got me to thinking why, as a mature believer (especially growing quickly in the last couplde of years) why don't I ever think much about His crucifixion. Wasn't it important?Arielle then said- but that's not the most important thing about Christ. And I said,"you're right. MANY PEOPLE HAVE DIED FOR THEIR FAITH. THERE HAVE BEEN MANY MARTYRS And not all of them for the right faith."I asked her, ok, what makes Jesus important to us and our faith and makes the biggest impact?" She said "HIs teachings!" How we are supposed to live our lives. That is the basis us our faith.many people may see that movie and think, "wow, He was brave and He died for His beliefs". but many others have done the same.The biggest difference here is that JESUS ROSE from the dead- no other martyr has done that.Do they show this in the movie?This is one of the reasons I have never liked crucifixes- because it still shows jesus on the cross. HE'S NOT THERE ANYMORE. He rose and is now living in us! I remember over the years, watching the easter story since I was little. I always cried when I saw Jesus being crucified- I felt terrible for Him. BUT THAT DID NOT CHANGE MY LIFE IN ANY WAY.These are just some things that the Lord is giving us some revelation on. Why is the focus on His death? Yes, it was terrible- but so are many martyrs deaths. His life and His resurrection was what made Him Christ.In Him, Chanin

Why is the focus on His death? Yes, it was terrible- but so are many martyrs deaths. This is a critical point. His death.Could it not be a large part of the problem that we have today? To hurry past this?Please bear with me I am only attempting to express my own out working of what is bearing down on me this morning.In fact I believe it is so important to get a true grasp on this I have started a new post in this regard, to gain some wisdom and clarity from our more experienced brethren:Focus on His deathHis life and His resurrection was what made Him Christ.To my way of thinking His death is the 'door' between these two, the hinge of all history.It is what has given me pause to stand before that door and contemplate, before I hear the knock and open it.

"This is a critical point. His death.Could it not be a large part of the problem that we have today? To hurry past this?"Please bear with me I am only attempting to express my own out working of what is bearing down on me this morning."In fact I believe it is so important to get a true grasp on this I have started a new post in this regard ..." "Focus on His death"Good idea, MikeRoger

Good one Greg.Looking forward to hearing him speak for himself.

You know Mary, I always liked that musical Jesus Christ Superstar, and I can't understand why prople consider it blasphemous--especially with things that are brought into the christian camp today---look at some of the hard core Christian rock-can't telll where Christ starts and the world ends---I have heard that there were a few that were saved during the era of that musical(the movie version) and I always thought that it made a good depiction of Christs life ( of course not totally correct.....

OK, sorry to be such a judas, but what is Mel Gibsons take on the whole thing---how much is he really making $$$ ? I understand the movie cost over 25 mill. to produce. Also has anybody realized that a movie about the Gospel of John was also released but appears to have disappeared in the wake of the Passion of Christ? this movie looked just as promising as Mels movie in regards to depiction ( and attention to detail) but has all but disappeared...could it possibly have been squashed by Hollywood to remove it from Ol' Mels big movie? Hey has anyone asked Mel if he would release it for free? Forgive me brethren--but I have been barraged by the movie hype lately - about hearing about churches buying up whole theaters to view the movie and use it as a tool to the lost - I sincerely pray that it is used to save souls, as I am sure it will--but only some souls. It is the Spirit filled word of God that cuts as a two edged sword that will do more heart rendering then a movie ever could--Dear God help us its just a movie..hey, if there was film 2000 years ago--do you think God would have just made a movie - instead of really sending His son? Just think how much easier it would have been in the long run.....

OK, sorry to be such a judas, but what is Mel Gibsons take on the whole thing---how much is he really making $$$ ? I understand the movie cost over 25 mill. to produce.In all fairness, he used his own money, politely turning down some offers from the bigger studios.I do believe he really wanted to make this movie and have control over the process. I think his heart and his motive's are sincere.

The Paradoxical Horror and Wonder of the Cross For Christians who tend to romanticize the cross, andthat's most of us, "The Passion of the Christ" will be asharp slap in our spiritual faces. It forces us to confrontthe physical torture endured by Jesus. Crucifixion was oneof the most terrifying means of capital punishment everdevised. It was so horrible that polite Romans rarelytalked or wrote about it. What Jesus experienced, however,was far worse than mere crucifixion. He was beaten terriblyin a variety of ways. He endured such savagery that he diedafter only three hours on the cross--far less than theaverage duration of crucifixion, which often lasted days. If you've never grappled with the physical horror of thecross, The Passion of the Christ will be an stunningeye-opener. You just won't be able to think of the cross ofJesus--nor to sing of it, nor to remember it incommunion--in the same way again. You'll realize moreprofoundly what it cost Jesus to die for the sin of theworld--including your sin. I've spent a good part of mylife studying the crucifixion of Jesus. Nothing in themovie surprised me, but it certainly led me into a moreheartfelt experience of what I had known in my head. Yet there is a danger in being overcome by the physicalawfulness of Christ's death. The danger comes in focusingtoo much on the physical, while ignoring the spiritual.Yes, Jesus' execution was horrendous in the extreme. Buthis even greater sacrifice can't be filmed. Jesus, thebeloved Son of God, experienced the penalty for sin. In thestirring words of the New Testament, God "made [Jesus] tobe sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become therighteousness of God" (2 Corinthians 5:21, NRSV). On thecross Jesus cries out to his Heavenly Father, "My God, myGod, why have you forsaken me?" (Mark 15:34, quoting fromPsalm 22:1). Jesus, the sinless Son of God, was indeedforsaken by God as he bore the penalty for our sin. From aspiritual point of view, this is even more terrible thananything he experienced in the flesh. And, at the same time, it is wonderful. What Jesus endured,he did out of love for you and me. He became as if he weresin, "so that in him we might become the righteousness ofGod," that is, so that we might have a right relationshipwith God both now and forever. Thus the cross, as horribleas it was, becomes good news for us. The instrument ofRoman cruelty becomes, ironically, a symbol of love,forgiveness, and new life. Our response to the cross of Christ--and therefore to thefilm, The Passion of the Christ--is one of gratitude,worship, and self-giving commitment. Perhaps no one has putit better than Isaac Watts in his classic hymn, "When ISurvey the Wondrous Cross." Here are his last two stanzas:See from his head, his hands, his feet, sorrow and love flow mingled down. Did e'er such love and sorrow meet, or thorns compose so rich a crown? Were the whole realm of nature mine, that were a present far too small. Love so amazing, so divine, demands my soul, my life, my all. Amen!¹1. Rev. Dr. Mark D. Roberts. Copyright © 2003 by Mark D.Roberts For the entire review of Mark Robert's article "The PASSIONof the Christ: An In-Depth Review" go to:http://www.markdroberts.com/htmfiles/resources/passionrev.htmVia:http://www.actsweb.org/about.htm

There is still something in my spirit that tells me that the "gore" of this movie is what will remain with the people who see this movie. Christ does not want to be remembered this way. He is not DEAD- He is ALIVE! Nothing man does to Him can keep Him dead.Think about this: the people who nailed Him to the cross, the ones standing next to Him at the crucifixion- did it change their lives? No. Many were there at the crucifxion and most were not changed. Now if they had witnessed His ressurection- that may have changed their mind that , yes, He was the Christ. Yes, we can believe His teachings as coming from God.Yes, I think it is emotional, yes, it will move people to tears. It would do that if they showed ANYONE being crucified- but they don't show "WHY"- they hated Him, what were His teachings that made Him so hated to be crucified?Why do we accept him as our Lord, not because He was crucified- but because we LOVE Him and have FAITH that He is Lord.I am not saying that the cross is not important- because it is very!!! For us, the cross is important- to carry our own. But His resurrection is the only thing that makes Him any different than any martyr, prophet or any other who was crucified.His resurrection is the only thing that showed He was really the Messiah. I think they are focusing on the wrong thing. People will go away from the movie and be sad- but not knowing that this was GOD. (I am refering mostly to non christians here.)In Him, Chanin

Think about this: the people who nailed Him to the cross, the ones standing next to Him at the crucifixion- did it change their lives? No. Mar 15:37 And Jesus uttered a loud voice, and gave up the ghost. Mar 15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in two from the top to the bottom. Mar 15:39 And when the centurion, who stood by over against him, saw that he so gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God. I know it doesn't say, but would really have to wonder after a statement like that.Also, Peters first sermon. Who was he addressing?Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God unto you by mighty works and wonders and signs which God did by him in the midst of you, even as ye yourselves know; Act 2:23 him, being delivered up by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye by the hand of lawless men did crucify and slay: Act 2:24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pangs of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. Act 2:36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly, that God hath made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom ye crucified. Maybe we are all getting ahead of ourselves not having seen it and not getting the whole 'picture' if you will in context.But I do hear your concerns.I think in that interview that Greg linked to here, he said that he had hoped to cause people to introspection. Hopefully it may cause the unbeliever's to search the Bible for themselves. Or even seek out a Christian.My two mite's...

God takes us from all levels of life and uses us, fashioning our strengths and talents and weaving them with our redeemed weakness, doing all this for His glory as we let Him. I would not begrudge Mel Gibson's name. If this movie will reach millions more because of Mr. Gibson's fame, then so be it, and glory to God who can use all of us as we submit to, and listen to Him.God blessed me by being able to attend The Call Dallas. If you have been at a Call you know that it is 12 hours of prayer and fasting with thousands of others who are repenting, restoring and crying out for revival. We viewed a segment including the flogging and crucifixion. It was something I will never forget, my coming away with a new and deeper understanding of exactly how personal this was. The heart-wrenching sobbing of those around me spoke volumes. I heard Rodney Howard-Brown say it better than I could. After his viewing with other pastors, he stood up and cried out, "It was for me. He died for me." Exactly my reaction.But I want to say that both are all on the same team, whether we produce something that has more or less acclaim. Paul addressed this eloquently when he described the differences in what Apollos, etc., did. Let us not begrudge anything. We do not know what spirit we are of when we begin to detract from the work of Christ, and frankly, there is not time for that. We must be busy about His work, not deviating from our true calling which is to build up his body, plunder hell, and populate Heaven. :-)

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We need to be VERY VERY VERY CAREFULL of what we quote. I have tried to confirm this quote and have not been able to. It is very dangerous to touch God's anointed. Maybe a repentance is in need. Wouldn't want anyone here to lose blessings from God because of poor judgement.

Well FINALLY!,Something good besides Taco Bell salsa, came out of NEW YORK CITY. :-o "It is the Spirit filled word of God that cuts as a two edged sword that will do more heart rendering then a movie ever could--Dear God help us its just a movie."A little common sense. ;-)If you contiune sdb in this type of sound reasoning, things could get difficult for you WAY UP THERE.Unless we can get Notre Dame to join the ACC, thereby getting the Mason Dixon Line moved to include everything South of I-80; you could get yourself in a fix. If the N.D. deal doesn't happen, and if you'd be interested, I know enough folks around here that I could arrange for you to be an HONORARY BUBBA! :-D In the words of my 8th grade teacher the year I "finished" school: " You got it Bubba! "Clutch :-)

Hi robanero.Which quote?

Dear God help us its just a movie.From my local paper this morning:PATRICK J. McGRATH is the Roman Catholic bishop of San Jose. He wrote this column for the Mercury News.http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/entertainment/movies/7985930.htm"While the primary source material of the film is attributed to the four gospels, these sacred books are not historical accounts of the historical events that they narrate. They are theological reflections upon the events that form the core of Christian faith and belief." :-o "It was not until several generations after the writing of the gospels before Jewish Christians (the first believers in Jesus) began to consider themselves not to be Jews. It is an inescapable fact that first-century Jewish writers would depict the drama of the passion of Jesus in light of their own perceptions. We, however, have a responsibility to history as well as to the present to bring a different understanding to our relations with one another."?"In the nearly 40 years since Nostra Aetate was written, the relationships between Catholics and non-Christians -- including but not limited to Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists -- have grown warmer. We see ourselves as sisters and brothers, co-workers and friends.In solidarity with Pope John Paul II, who asked for forgiveness during his pilgrimage to Jerusalem in 2000, I apologize to all my brothers and sisters of any faith tradition which has felt prejudice. Let us not allow the mutual respect that has developed to be threatened by an unenlightened reflection on an artistic rendering of the events of 2,000 years ago. Remember, it is just a movie."

Another perspective... "Playing Jesus was a world of torment for Jim Caviezel, who stars in Mel Gibson's ferociously violent ``The Passion of the Christ.''He dangled nearly naked on a cross in bone-chilling winds. During a re-creation of the Sermon on the Mount, he was struck by lightning. An actor playing a Roman torturer cut a 14-inch gash in Caviezel's back while they were filming Jesus' scourging. Caviezel dislocated his shoulder carrying the cross, caught pneumonia and a lung infection, and endured cuts, scrapes and backaches from the chains he bore."http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/entertainment/7988615.htm

Someone may have said this but I missed it. Many have suffered worse physical torture than Christ. The Bible is very restrained in its comments; Matthew 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.Mark 15:25 And it was the third hour, and they crucified him.Luke 23:33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. {Calvary: or, The place of a skull}John 19:18 Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.It tells the details of his death in three words; they crucified him.The mechanics of crucifixion were just the tools for legal execution in those days. The real events of Calvary took place in absolute darkness, beyond the sight of any man. Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. It would not make a very compelling film; 3 hours of pitch darkness.This is where our redemption was accomplished. This is where our sin was born. This is where the battle was fought and won. If we really want a glimpse of Calvary we will find it in Psalm 22 rather than the gospels or Gibson's film.

The mechanics of crucifixion were just the tools for legal execution in those days. The real events of Calvary took place in absolute darkness, beyond the sight of any man. Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. It would not make a very compelling film; 3 hours of pitch darkness.You might be on to something there Ron.Maybe we could have the 'sequel' immediately following the movie, 3 hours in silent contemplation with Psalm 22 printed on the screen.