A Rebuke And An Exhortation

When preaching the Gospel, whether Open Air or One2One, it is of utmost importance that when preaching, we do so with the intent, desire and passion to draw the lost person TO Jesus Christ and His Salvation; not AWAY from Jesus Christ and His Salvation:

Mark 2:15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.

We see here that Jesus loved and sat with sinners and publicans.

Today, we see differently; we see disciples name calling, holding banners which are abominations and consorting against the lost with vile words and wicked practices.

Jesus Christ and HIS disciples sat with and ate with sinners and publicans.

The offended ones were most oftentimes the religious hypocrites and pharisees; rarely do you find a sinner or publican becoming offended at Jesus and His dicsiples in Scripture.

Today, however, so called disciples run about name calling, raising their voices in ambominable words and offending sinners and publicans!

When a sinner becomes offended, the preacher will many times say, "You just don;t want to give up your sin!".

Jesus Christ, the Son of God, rarely had to make such a statement...

Why?

The answer is simple:

He went about doing GOOD:

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Today, people are self-proclaimed "anointed ones", running to and fro, doing the opposite of good and destroying that which God is seeking to build.

Comepare Christ's preaching with that of today's Open Air Preaching, and you'll soon see how wide the gulf is!

Today's Open Air Preacher will hold a sign saying, "God abhors you!" while Jesus, in contrast, does the absolute oppposite.

We see this perfectly exemplified in Mark 10...

Jesus preaches One2One in a public setting, to a rich man with great possessions.

The story didn't end well for the rich man, and it also didn't end on a great note for Jesus Christ either, looking at it from a human standpoint!

The rich man went away grieved, as he refused to give up his posessions, as Jesus had so commanded!

Mark 10:20-22 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

Note that verse 21 tells us that before Jesus spoke, Jesus loved him.

Many Open Air Preachers begin their non God-Ordained Meetings by opening with, "God ABHORS you!".

They'll justify their twisted gospel preaching by quoting Psalm 5:5, ignoring the very Testimony of Jesus Christ when HE PREACHED.

1- Jesus LOVED

2- Then, Jesus SPOKE.

Now look at verse 22:

And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

We see that this meeting ended with a rich man turning AWAY from the very One who LOVED him.

Notice that nowhere does it state that Jesus then "began to abhor him".

Notice that nowehere in the text does Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who IS the Word, begin quoting Scripture texts on how angry His Heavenly Father is.

Notice that nowhere does any disciple begin frantically writing Psalm 5:5 on banners to convince this rich man that he's doomed for eternity.

Notice that no one rebukes Jesus for not becoming rude and mean while preaching.

Notice that that there were no news crews, upset students or an angry mob present.

Many things can be seen from this passage which fly directly in the face of much of today's Open Air Preaching.

Let's take two men for examples:

1- One man will go to a homosexual parade and LOVE the homosexuals, telling them of God's Word, His Wrath, His Love and His Salvation; namely, we could refer to such as a man as being Mark Cahill.

2- The second man attends homosexual parades with a huge entourage of "open air preachers" holding banners that say "God hates you!" and "God abhors you!"...namely, we could say such a man is Ruben Israel and all who march with him.

The first man, Mark Cahill, is like Jesus who loved the rich man.

The second man, Ruben Israel, is like the individual Paul the Apostle spoke of:

Philippians 1:15-17 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: the one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

Mark Cahill would be the "other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel."

Ruben Israel wouyld be the "...Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: the one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely..."

You see, both men are preaching Christ; only one man is preaching Christ of LOVE, as Paul teaches and as Christ has SHOWN in the example of the rich man.

Now....

The result of preaching from a heart of love may be the same as the man preaching that God hates homosexuals; both may not gather in many souls.

However, as we see from Paul's writing, there's a RIGHT way to preach Christ and a WRONG and ABOMINABLE way to preach Christ.

The RIGHT way is GOD'S way, namely, as we see Jesus do.

The WRONG WAY is any OTHER way than God's Way!

Beloved, I'm not advocating a fluffy message... .

Hell is still hell.

Repent still means repent.

Grace still means Grace.

I forever disdain any change to the Message of the Gospel!

I also, however, disdain the MANNER in which many so called Open Air Preachers present the Gospel!

Some will defend the Open Air Minister's abominable actions by saying such things as, "I've met this man! He's the most loving man I've ever met!"

However, during a homosexual parade, when holding signs which are abominable and dispicable, the homosexal doesn;t sense, see, know or experience that love that the Open Air Minister's friends speak so highly of.

"Touch not my anointed!" is another phrase which is used when voices rise up against false gospl preaching.

1 John 2:20, 27 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things....But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

The "anointed ones" are all who walk with God and keep His commandments, as 1 john 2, in context tells us.

NO ONE is among any "elite" anointed group!

Don't believe that lie if anyone rattles that phrase off to you when testing and proving all things, Beloved!

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

We are called, commanded and EQUPIIED to test and try all spirits purporting to be of God.

The hateful Open Air Minister may accuse you of preaching a fluffy message, because you refuse to bow to his unScriptural ideologies of Open Air Preaching; don't bow!

The abominable Open Air Minister may call YOU names, call YOU a fraud, call YOU a contentious person; don't bow!

Beloeved, the Gospel Message must NEVER be compromised by preaching or associating with those who bring shame and reproach to the name of the Lord Jesus Christ!

RUN FRO YOUR LIFE if you encounter such a one as to preach a message of BAD News rather than the Gospel, which is GOOD NEWS!

The Mark Cahill's of the world are impacting the Kingdom of God for Christ!

The Ruben Israel's of the world are demeaning, defaming, harming and hurting the name of Jesus Christ, and they're masking their wickedness under the banner of "We're preaching the Truth! We're not compromising!"

Beloeved, I exhort you to follow the example of Christ, who "loved him".

I encourage you to stand fast in the Word, for the sake of the Gospel.

The offended individual will almost always be the religious hypocrite and pharisee; the sinner and publican will most always come to Christ or leave; but when they leave, they leave grieved, as we have seen in the above text in Mark... they almost always will not leave hating you and the God you are telling them of; namely, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Preach God's hatred for sin!

Preach the Love of God!

Preach hellfire!

Preach Heaven!

Preach Repentance!

Preach Christ and Him Crucified!

PREACH! PREAH! PREACH!

But in your preaching...

Be sure that when he leaves, he knows that you LOVED HIM and that he leaves GRIEVED over his sin; not hateful towards your God!

I personally know both Mark Cahill and Ruben Israel.

I think they both love Jesus and both love the lost. Though their styles are different.

But that's just me. I've personally been encouraged by the fellowship I have had with both of them.

Mark has been very fruitful with his books, encouraging many to start sharing their faith one2one.

And Ruben has been very fruitful raising up open air preachers. His ministry now has 32 chapters all over the US. And he's seen homosexuals and many others repent and come to Jesus.

God bless them both!

answer me this:

why is this poster listed as anonymous?

was this poster booted in the space of 24 hours?

what is going on here?

Greg, Mike, what is going on here?

neil

to the anonymous one, I have a comments and questions for you.

I can only guess that your reason for anonimity is so anyone who knows you will not be tempted to write you off but rather listen to your message. I don't know if it has fully worked but thats fine. I believe you have made some good points. I really do.

My question is this; Do you open air preach? Not have you but do you?

God bless, John

I just watched your "preaching" at Georgia Tech and I painfully sat thru as you excoriated that young woman who was asking you heartfelt questions, and you DID NOT respond to her with Jesus' love, you responded to her with a hard, cold hearted, mean-spirited hate filled rant.

Brethern, you watch this and tell me what you think of this exchange:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiV_NOp_YlE

Now there is a young woman out there somewhere thinking believing feeling that Jesse's rant is how a follower of Jesus comports the Message of Grace and Salvation thru Christ Jesus.

Thats just great, you might have stumbled this young woman FOREVER.

Jesse, you are like a 5 year child with a Bic lighter and a crate of dynamite, you are playing with Holy Things, you are playing with peoples lives in the context of eternity, and YOU are the one who needs to repent, and rethink just what you are doing, and you best believe I'm going to hop on my email client right now, and bar you from sending me any more of the news of your "ministry".

Greg, Mike, you might think that my post was best suited for a PM, but I'm calling this one out in the public square, because it is wrong, it is anti-christ, and it is defaming and ruining the Work of the Cross, and if you don't like that, boot me too, make me "anonymous", cause if the ministry of some of these open air preachers is the Face of Christ that we are presenting to the lost, watch out.

Schma, which means "hear me!" in Hebrew.

neil

the reason a poster is listed as 'anonymous" is that they were probably booted from the website.

Bartle,

Chill out dude.

Actually, that young women in the video I'm told broke down in tears of repentance and spoke with a preacher for a long time after I had ministered to her. God was working on her.

The Holy Spirit wants to convict the world, not comfort the world. The Holy Spirit comforts saints in persecution, but He convicts sinners in sin. And as preachers, we must work with and not against the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit wants to convict of sin, righteousness, and judgment to come [b]John 16:8 [/b]. So if we are to work hand in hand with the Holy Spirit, we must not comfort sin, neglect righteousness, and ignore the judgment to come.

The Apostle Paul had this relationship or partnership with the Holy Spirit when he preached. "And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee." [b]Ac 24:25[/b]

Nonetheless, some would argue that Paul was wrong and he only turned Felix off just as John the Baptist turned Herod off by calling him a name - adulterer. But that would just be further proof that God's ways are not their ways and that God's wisdom is what many call foolishness.

When Jesus preached, he told people what they were doing that was evil. And the result was that many hated him and crucified him. [b]John 7:7[/b]

A role that the Holy Spirit plays in the conversion of sinners is that of conviction [b]Joh 16:8 [/b], but a preacher too must seek to have his messages convicting. [b]Tit 1:9 [/b]

How far we have fallen from biblical preaching. I'm sorry you don't like that video Bartle. It's full of the love of Christ and the fear of God. The preaching was about, what Gideon Ousley called, "The disease and the cure". I preached about sin and preached about the Savior.

I'm not trying to reconcile God unto the world, I'm trying to reconcile the world unto God. I'm not trying to make God acceptable unto sinners, but I want to see sinners made acceptable unto God. It's not about sinners accepting Jesus, but it's about Jesus accepting sinners. [b]Ro 12:1[/b]

Sinners are not victims. They are criminals [b]Lu 19:27[/b] . And in a Spirit of love and humility, we need to confront these criminals and tell them that it's either eternal jail [i](hell)[/i] or the pardon [i](Jesus)[/i] offered by the judge [i](God)[/i] upon the proper conditions [i](repentance and faith)[/i].

But, my preaching wasn't meant to please you. It wasn't meant to please anybody, except for God. And if it's true, that that young women turned from her sin and turned to Jesus, then all of Heaven rejoices.

"By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil." [b]Pr 16:6[/b]

"Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men" [b]2Co 5:11[/b]

sorry, I don't do "chill out" too well, especially when I see wrong being done.

as far as the young woman concerned i would venture to say, that the tears of hers were of grief and bewilderment at having been slapped down by you, and the long time she spent with the preacher was probably asking, 'do I have to be like him (you) to be a Christian?"

I noticed, in your account she didn't talk to you, and that is not surprising.

"chill out dude", to which I say "repent dude", your off the rails.

[b]I've only begun [/b]to publicly confront sin and to call sinners to Jesus!!

I'll preach repentance towards God and faith in Jesus Christ until the end of my life! When God calls a man to be a preacher, He didn't consider retirement. I'll preach till I die.

If the world doesn't like it, I'll weep over it but I won't repent from it! If weak kneed, spineless, lukewarm pew dwellers don't like, I'll encourage them but never allow them to discourage me.

If I'm locked in prison I'll preach from my cell. If they cut out my tongue I'll make bigger banners. But either way, until my last breath, I'll be calling this sinful world back to God!

"When may a revival be expected? When the wickedness of the wicked grieves and distresses the Christian." [b]Billy Sunday [/b]

"If we are to better the future we must disturb the present." [b]Catherine Booth [/b]

"We need some hell-fire preaching on repentance." [b]Leonard Ravenhill[/b]

"Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and tell my people their transgression" [b]Isa 58:1[/b]

"And they went out, and preached that men should repent." [b]Mr 6:12[/b]

I've only begun to publicly confront sin and call sinners to Jesus!!

(edit) Its not right of you to add to a post without including the word "(edit)" The only sentence you had put up when I responded was the sentence I quoted.(end edit)

That last statement of yours smells so prideful and arrogant that I pray that God has mercy on you when He begins to deal with you.

or maybe He'll just let you go down your path, after all Jed Smock is getting old, maybe you might be the Jed Smock of the 21st century.

where's the Grace Jesse? the humbleness, meekness, humility.....the Love of Jesus, where is it? I don't see it in your ministry, All I see is hardness, and an inability to accept any correction. And I am not the only one who has testified to this.

Go ahead, you pound your breast just like that praying pharisee, have at it, just remember, at the end of the race is the Judgement Seat.

remember that.

[b]"I've only begun....."[/b]

Lord have mercy.

where's the Grace Jesse? the humbleness, meekness, humility.....the Love of Jesus, where is it?

Watch that video again. I [b]continually [/b]said, "Come to Jesus Christ and be forgiven. Come to Jesus Christ and recieve mercy. Forsake your sin and recieve grace."

There is only grace and mercy for sins that sinners repent of. There is no mercy, but only judgment and wrath, for unrepented sinners.

Bartle,

I'm just a bit curious as to your views on this video of Ray Comfort open air preaching back in the day. I think it's a very good video but some say that it's a "jerry springer" type approach to open air preaching and also that it's "unloving" and "judgmental" etc etc.

Just curious as to your thoughts.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5143732711244307573&q=ray+comfort+in+season&hl=en

I watched that video three times, and you did not "say" anything, you "ranted" in a harsh confrontational tone and tenor with lost hurting and broken people. There was NOTHING in your message that conveyed thru your presentation the love and healing that Jesus had for the lost and sinsick. There was nothing there in the Power of the Gospel that would make the lost "envious" of the Divine Joy a Christian has, that would make the sinner envious of so great a salvation.

only a form of vituperative religious bile spat upon them, and THAT is not the Heart of God.

Well I had to run back to my tariler so I could get my earphones to listen to Jesse preach.

I have preached open air many times. I know all the dynamics that can take place. It is a hrd thing for those who do not preach open air to understand whats really going on. The majority of the christian community views it as negative and unloving. However those who say this often will not openair preach themselves.

Jesse I thought you did fine. The interaction with the women was actually very good, for both of you. I think you are gifted and just stay in prayer and the word.

bartle we have had a few good talks on this forum. I have to respectfully disagree with your strong judgment of this as being "antichrist".

I would hope you would rethink the harsh things you have said to jesse about 5 yr old with a bic lighter etc.

sincerly and respectfully, John

John,

It's good to hear from a fellow open air preacher.

I'm glad you enjoyed the video too.

Where are you located? Maybe we could do some tag team preaching some day.

Currently in Iraq with the Army. It will be a while before I am able to open air again. Perhaps someday we will meet and be able to do that. In the mean time keep up the "good works" in Christ!

God bless you Jesse, John

Jesse,
before I answer your leading question on the ministry of Ray Comfort, let me ask you a question: why do you make videos on your preaching?

Why not just do them?

Why do you have to have a video to show everyone?

Do you want me to show you video's on my ministry?

Oh wait...there are none, because the Lord sees my ministry, quietly and selflessly. He makes the videos, and in Him I rest, and I pray and in faith I know that thru Jesus' love I touch His children, the lost of the world, plant the seeds, and He harvests the fruit. He keeps the record, he sees all, and remembers all.

Heed my word, take that expensive video cam and toss it into the nearest body of water, coz it is an idol of self exhalation. It is not a tool, it is a stumble.

I've said enough for tonight, in my spirit, I feel that you aren't even hearing.

I record the open air preaching for the same reason Ray Comfort records one2one witnessing. So that other Christians can see it first hand, learn how to do it, and then go and do it themselves.

When I first was turned on to open air preaching, I searched the internet for any and all material I could find on the subject. I read just about every article, I bought just about every video, and still was hungry.

There are very few good open air preaching videos out there. And even fewer free videos. And even fewer unique videos!

So it was put on my heart to create the worlds largest open air preaching library so that other people just like me, who want to learn the art and practice of outdoor preaching, can learn and grow to glorify the Lord and seek and save the lost.

I'm grateful for all the videos that are already out there. But I just think that we need more. So I want to film as many open air preachers as I can. That way we can multiply our efforts.

If a good open air meeting will reach 50-100 people on average, putting it on the internet can help double, tripple, etc the amount of people that it impacts, and who knows how much of a bigger impact it will have if a Christian watches it and then decides to start doing it himself on a regular basis!

And that is something the devil is against and fears!

Brother in a far away land,

"harsh things"? I am always open to to rethink anything that comes from my pen or my mouth...always open to correction, but that encounter that Jesse had with that young woman I did not find edifying, encouraging, only grievous, and I wrote as I felt led.

Words....my call is to servanthood and healing and the ministry of reconciliation, and when called upon I use words.

Anything, any person who brings discredit on the Blood of Christ, the Body of Christ is anti-christ, plain and simple.

Praying for your safe return, bartle.

I just watched your "preaching" at Georgia Tech and I painfully sat thru as you excoriated that young woman who was asking you heartfelt questions, and you DID NOT respond to her with Jesus' love, you responded to her with a hard, cold hearted, mean-spirited hate filled rant.

Brethern, you watch this and tell me what you think of this exchange:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiV_NOp_YlE

Now there is a young woman out there somewhere thinking believing feeling that Jesse's rant is how a follower of Jesus comports the Message of Grace and Salvation thru Christ Jesus.

Thats just great, you might have stumbled this young woman FOREVER.

Jesse, you are like a 5 year child with a Bic lighter and a crate of dynamite, you are playing with Holy Things, you are playing with peoples lives in the context of eternity, and YOU are the one who needs to repent, and rethink just what you are doing,

Anything, any person who brings discredit on the Blood of Christ, the Body of Christ is anti-christ, plain and simple.

So your judgment and condemnation is that my ministry, that video, and myself are anti-Christ?

a library of open air preaching videos. fair enough.

and you one of the teachers?

24 years old, 4 years saved?

But don't think for instant that the devil fears this, the devil loves confrontation, fleshly confrontation, he loves to see believers arguing with sinners, thats his food.

these sinners are sick with the fever of sin, and all you do with this ministry of confrontation is to raise their temperature and turn them from the Balm of Grace.

[b]Ac 9:29[/b] "And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and [b]disputed[/b] against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him."

[b]Ac 17:17[/b] "Therefore [b]disputed[/b] he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him."

[b]Ac 17:2[/b] "And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days [b]reasoned[/b] with them out of the scriptures,"

[b]Ac 18:4[/b] "And he [b]reasoned[/b] in the synagogue every sabbath, and [b]persuaded[/b] the Jews and the Greeks."

[b]Ac 18:19[/b] "And he came to Ephesus, and left them there: but he himself entered into the synagogue, and [b]reasoned[/b] with the Jews."

[b]Jude 1:3[/b] "ye should earnestly [b]contend[/b] for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints."

[b]Ro 10:17[/b] - "So then faith comes by [b]hearing[/b], and hearing by the word of God."

[b]Ro 10:14[/b] - "How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? [b]And how shall they hear without a preacher?" [/b]

I will [i]verbally[/i] "reason", "persuade", "contend" and even "dispute" for the glory of Jesus and the salvation of sinners.

[b]Words of wisdom for open air preachers:[/b]

"Don’t be soft. The crowd cannot and will not stand one of those namby-pamby sentimental sort of fellows in an open air meeting. The temptation to throw a brick or a rotten apple at him is perfectly irresistable, and one can hardly blame him. "

-R. A. Torrey

"In the streets, a man must from beginning to end be intense; and for that very reason he must be condensed in his thought and utterance. "

-John Wesley

So judgment is that my ministry, that video, and myself are anti-Christ?

IF, by what you preach, thru harshness, thru confrontation, thru argument turns the lost away from the Love and Blood of Jesus, yes, that is anti-christ.

In your words, I do not see the Love of Christ, and Christ loved sinners, He walked with them, taught to them, healed them, dined with them. He did not argue with them, but thru His love opened their minds to the Gospel, and then in the ultimate sacrifice, He went to the Cross for them and in faith, and thru the leading of the Holy Spirit, the lost are reconciled back to Him.

How do you fit in this ministry of reconciliation thru Christ Jesus?

By arguing in public with sinners, and videotaping that?

Throw that video camera away, buy a pail, a sponge, some towels, liquid soap, get on your knees in the public square, and wash some feet, and then you might start to weep for the lost of a dead and dying world.

ask to take pictures of those who gather around, and at night print these pictures, get on your knees and pray for them, the next day, go back to the square, and if they are there again, let them know that you loved them enough to pray for them, BY NAME, with tears, and watch what happens.

Show them that you love them, that you care, like Jesus cares to know them by name, watch what happens, all these people want to be is to be loved. Human love is fleeting, Jesus love is forever. Show them Jesus' love and watch what happens. Reflect His light, not the light of the fires of hell and watch what happens.

"Don’t be soft. The crowd cannot and will not stand one of those namby-pamby sentimental sort of fellows in an open air meeting. The temptation to throw a brick or a rotten apple at him is perfectly irresistable, and one can hardly blame him. "

Yeh, I guess Stephen the first martyr was soft and "namby-pamby".

[b]REGARDING STEPHEN[/b]

Stephen was an open air preacher who was stoned because he was not soft on sin. He publicly rebuked their sin, publicly telling them that they had not kept the law, and the crowd gnashed at him, plugged their ears, and stoned him.

[b]Acts 7:51-58[/b]

"[i]You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.[/i]

Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers, who have [i]received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it.[/i]

When they heard [i]these things[/i] they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth.

But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, "Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!

Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul."

Much like John the Baptist. [b]John the Baptist was not beheaded because he preached about Jesus. He was not thrown in person because he preached about Jesus.[/b] He was thrown in prison and beheaded because he publicly rebuked sin and called Herod an adulterer. [b]Mr 6:17 Mr 6:18 [/b]

[b]REGARDING LOVE[/b]

"Open air preaching is my cross" [i]John Wesley[/i]

Love is not a feeling to be felt but love is an action to be done.

The greatest act of love that this world has ever seen was the cross of Jesus Christ.

"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." [b]Joh 15:13[/b]

But what did the world do when it encountered this great act of love? Did all the sinners stop and say, "Oh, look at how much he loves us"? No, they mocked him, spit on him, beat him, and crucified him. [b]Mr 15:20 Lu 22:63 [/b]

Even today millions mock Jesus Christ.

Jesus said, "Go into all the world and PREACH the gospel to every creature." [b]Mark 16:15[/b] And He Himself set the example by verbally preaching "Repent and believe the gospel!" [b]Mr 1:15[/b]

And if we are to be like Jesus, and verbally call sinners to repentance [b]Mt 4:17[/b], and be like Jesus and tell the sinful world that their ways are evil [b]John 7:7[/b], we too will not be loved by them, though we ourselves deeply love them. [b]Joh 15:20[/b]

And just as the world did not recognize the love of Jesus when he was dying on the cross, the world may not recognize the love in our hearts as we ourselves are dying on our crosses, by loving them by preaching the gospel to them and calling them to repentance.

But if we truly love them, we will not stand idly by as they perish, knowing that they will burn and burn in hell for eternity, but we will lift our voices as a trumpet [b]Isa 58:1[/b] , knowing that without a verbal preacher how can they hear [b]Ro 10:14,[/b] knowing that faith comes by hearing. [b]Ro 10:17 [/b]

The most unloving thing to do in this dark hour is to be silent. It takes a cold, hard, mean heart to let sinners march to hell without warning them.

you are cemented the zealot. I poured my heart out to you, and at 0520 I realize that your ears are closed.

God bless you and sleep well, bartle

Well then I will take my leave of this thread and wish you both reconciliation.

To brother Bartle remember the parable of the worker's hired and paid a penny. Then a worker hired later in the day and paid a penny? This parable may apply to our young brother here.

I will add before I go some thoughts and point's on this subject.

Videoing open airs can benefit:

1. The preacher himself for he can look and see if he has erred in any way and correct it in the future; for we all do err.

2. It is a teaching aid for others who wish to open air. They can get Idea's from it. They can also say I wouldn't do that part that way, and that's fine.

3. In this day it can help if the preacher is falsley accused and taken to court.

In regards to the preaching of grace. Yes all of us desire when open air preaching to make sure they hear the grace and mercy that is theirs for the taking in Christ Jesus. But for the most part that will be delivered when they call out, Men and brethren what must we do? (act 2:)

I still beleive Jesse did fine. I also know that Jesse will only improve and bear more fruit as he goe's on. Provided he stay's emmersed in the word and PRAYER.

finally thank you brother bartle for your prayers of my safe return. God bless, John

bartle wrote:

So judgment is that my ministry, that video, and myself are anti-Christ?

IF, by what you preach, thru harshness, thru confrontation, thru argument turns the lost away from the Love and Blood of Jesus, yes, that is anti-christ.

In your words, I do not see the Love of Christ, and Christ loved sinners, He walked with them, taught to them, healed them, dined with them. He did not argue with them, but thru His love opened their minds to the Gospel, and then in the ultimate sacrifice, He went to the Cross for them and in faith, and thru the leading of the Holy Spirit, the lost are reconciled back to Him.

How do you fit in this ministry of reconciliation thru Christ Jesus?

By arguing in public with sinners, and videotaping that?

Throw that video camera away, buy a pail, a sponge, some towels, liquid soap, get on your knees in the public square, and wash some feet, and then you might start to weep for the lost of a dead and dying world.

ask to take pictures of those who gather around, and at night print these pictures, get on your knees and pray for them, the next day, go back to the square, and if they are there again, let them know that you loved them enough to pray for them, BY NAME, with tears, and watch what happens.

Show them that you love them, that you care, like Jesus cares to know them by name, watch what happens, all these people want to be is to be loved. Human love is fleeting, Jesus love is forever. Show them Jesus' love and watch what happens. Reflect His light, not the light of the fires of hell and watch what happens.

A hearty amen to that! In this is the love of the Father revealed.

:-D

quoting Lazarus1719:

[b]I[/b]'ve only begun..

[b]I[/b]'ll preach repentance

[b]I[/b]'ll preach till [b]I[/b] die.

etc...

---

Brother, I would be careful with your words to realize the fact that we are not just merely working [b]for[/b] God but rather to primarly to work [b]with[/b] God. (1 Corinthians 3:9).

The greatest need today is for Christians to be filled with the love of Christ.

And when a person is filled with the love of Christ, they will "speak the truth in love." [b]Ephesians 4:15[/b]

Some people speak the truth but it's not out of love.

Others say that they love but they don't speak the truth.

But if we truly love Jesus and love sinners, we will not be able to tolerate watching millions of people living in sin, only to burn in hell at the end of their life.

The reason why there are so few who publicly confront sin is because there are so few who actually love our society with Christs love.

But if we get filled with the love of Christ, and we truly love our neighbor as ourselves, we will warn, and plead, and persuade, and reason, and even dispute, all in the hope that sinners will repent.

The love of Christ must compell us to the highways and the byways to plead with people to come into the kingdom of God.

The love of Christ must move us to stand strongly against sin, since sin seperates man from God, and brings upon men the judgment and wrath of God.

The love of Christ must deeply burden us and grieve us so that we will be willing to speak the truth, even the hard truth, in a spirit of love.

There are so many preachers today that are completely without the love of Christ in their hearts, which is why they tell people what they want rather then what they need.

I am greatly honored to have been given a ministry that sees sinners saved on a regular basis. Nothing brings more joy to my life then to see these sinners break down in tears of conviction and seek after God for mercy.

But I know that the Lord is not content with the few laborers that there are. He desires for more holy men and women to take a bold stand, full of the love of Christ, to confront sin and exalt the salvation found in Jesus Christ.

So my point us, we must be moved by the love of Christ and also we must have the anointing of the Lord.

Another great reason why so few actually publicly confront sin, talk about righteousness and judgment to come, is because so few are lead by the Holy Spirit.

Most preachers are working against the work of the Holy Spirit, trying to comfort sinners when God wants to convict sinners, knowing that godly sorrow leads to repentance, and repentance leads to eternal life.

I wrote this article on the need for the Holy Spirit in our preaching. I encourage all open air preachers, and even all Christians to read it.

[b]The Help of the Holy Spirit[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=14600

O.k. I can't resist I'll pop back in on this thread.

Does not the same spirit work in all of us? But can the hand say to the foot I have no need of thee?

I read of a preacher who struck a man blind...Paul the apostle. Wow wonder if he felt the love and mercy of Christ?

I read of another one who told a hearer that his heart was full of wickedness and deciet...that was Peter.

neither one of those hearer's were pharassee's

Now having said that. I understand the concern of the sinner not hearing the grace and mercy of God preached. I don't think I nor Ray Comfort nor Jesse M always bring forth the grace and mercy completly as we should. But i don't throw either one of them or myself, "under the bus".

That's what several of you are doing. You think your helping jesse but the tone of your posts has been first and foremost ,"your doing it wrong... watch yourself...your just young ...etc.

I just posted in the Roy Moore thread a concern I have alomg these same lines.

Many of you really militate against the proclomation of the "whole counsel of God" instead of helping it. You are just as guilty of wanting to conform this brother "to your" understanding of the truth of things.

Leonard Ravenhill in Why revival tarries concerning preaching was very hesitant to tell a men how to preach. I'm not saying don't give advice but what I see is harsh "shutting him down" approach. Some of you will resist that and not be able to see what your doing. Your convinced becuase "youv'e been saved longer" or "you've seen this all before" etc... He has a hard enough time doing what he's called to do without brothers and sisters throwing stumbling blocks at him.

Lastly I have never even met or heard of Jesse till this forum. I don't know him from Adam. But I do know what it's like to feel the heat of "brothers and sisters" opposing the preaching.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh. You could take what I have said and turn it all on me and say well your just doing that to us now. I hope you don't I hope you can see just a little of what I'm saying.
God bless, John
P.s. Maybe if you don't agree with his approach you should just be quite and pray for him. If it was reversed how would you want him to treat you??

sermonindex wrote
Re:

quoting Lazarus1719:

I've only begun..

I'll preach repentance

I'll preach till I die.

etc...

---

Brother, I would be careful with your words to realize the fact that we are not just merely working for God but rather to primarly to work with God. (1 Corinthians 3:9).

Interesting that one of the random photo's that just popped up for me was "Blood & Fire" about william and Catherine booth. The caption below the picture was quoting I guess William as declaring a bunch of "I will fight.." like 4 times. hmmm....interesting.
God bless, John

Brother,

I want to clarify what I posted before:

Jesse is free to do what HE wants, and that is what HE is doing, thats fine.

In my spirit and the Holy Spirit that lives within me, it is my discernement based upon the videos of his open air preaching, is that he does not reflect the Light of Jesus, but rather reflects the flames of hell.

I read and hear of him preaching AGAINST sin, rather than preaching FOR Jesus. I read of him not wanting to "comfort" sinners, but what is the Gospel BUT the "good news", that thru the atoning sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross, the sins of the lost would be wiped from the slate of a person thru a Merciful God. This is the Living Water that Jesus offers, and its refreshing, and it divinely designed to offer COMFORT to burdened sinners.

But Jesse believes in confrontation and argument with hardened sinners, "Shock and Awe" as he put it, and what I saw in that video, among many others that I have watched is a young man who doesn't understand what Paul did on Mars Hill. And I say Mars Hill, because in my judgement, many if not most of these campuses are the modern day Mars Hill's. These kids want to enagage in discusssion about spiritual matters, they want dialogue because they are hungry and they are lost and in their inner hearts they know it, they get a rant that fancies itself as preaching.

Half of them don't even believe in God, the Bible is an irrelevancy, so waving it above your head and ranting to them about sin is counterproductive. Thats not throwing him or you "under the bus", but dialogue is a two way street, a discussion, and when a sinner hears and sees the Joy of Christ in your heart and in your eyes, and the way you speak and reason this speaks volumnes as to the Power of Christ thru meekness and humility in love.

I realized yesterday at 0500 in the morning that any discussion with Jesse is futile, at this time. If you think what I say to him is a "stumbling block". or "opposing him", so be it.

He quoted me the first verse of the 58th chapter of Isaiah. The 58th chapter of Isaiah to me contains a Christ-like template to ministry, and I pray that he recognizes the magnificent swoop and scope of this call to action in Christ.

In closing, I'll say that I find the majority of the open air preacher websites and their ministries really distressing, because it feels to me that if you don't agree with their methodology than, as it has been written to me, you don't "know the gospel".

This young man should seek some time in the desert to be broken and refined for future service, but at this point I doubt he is open to any voice or Voice other than HIS OWN.

keep your kevlar on, its going to get worse before it gets better, but you already know that.

May God be your shield and your rearguard, bartle

Brother Doz and Bartle,
Your last 2 posts are warming to my heart. They reflect calmness and maturity,a bit of a balm if you will,Thank you.

As I walked back to my trailer a few hours ago I was thinking of a new thread I will start based partially off this thread. But for now I would like to add this.

We all do err when we communicate with one another or the unsaved. Sometimes we err more than other times. The goal is always to convey,"Christ crucified and resurrected," the "whole counsel of God" thats from Paul.
And in another place, " Behold the goodness and the severity of the Lord".
And finaly "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son,that whosoever should beleive in him should not "perish" but have "eternal life".John 3 :16

As I said earlier and to expand when John wesley said preach 90% law 10% grace it can still be a challenge to get that 10% grace in as it should be.

Also again "over all" not just here but in my short 19 years with the Lord I have seen a biased by the church against feild preaching. So we must be carefull of our words (typing) as bro Doz said. We must be carefull how we admonish the street preacher. What I saw was coming out with guns blazing against him with out first saying something like "Praise God that you are willing to do what you are doing! I will be praying for you....and if I may I have a suggestion.....

Brother Jesse it is important to remain true to what you beleive but to learn more the art of listening and receiving correction,( I am one to speak for I still have a ways to go in this area) but nevertheless We must all agree that the open air is essential that we need more open air preachers and that we pray that thier ministires truly are accompanied by the Holy Ghost.

Lastly I of course like to think that I know a bit about this subject since I have actually done it, However that does not mean that all my answers are perfectly right. So test all things hold fast to that which is good.
God bless, John

I just had the sad occasion to view not only the website of Ruben Israel, which in itself is totally depraved, but also the ugly ugly charade of this man "preaching" on Georgia Tech, which is the same place I viewed the other video I commented on.

This is absolutely depressing, disheartening and totally grievous. Ruben Israel should be ashamed of himself that he is taking not only the Name of Israel, but that he is perverting the Gospel to such an extent to drive these lost kids EVEN further from Jesus. Would to God that this mans tongue cleave to the roof of his mouth, and he would still walk around with his signs and sandwich boards.

Some of the words he uses on his website I won't even quote on this dear annointed website that Greg labours over in the Name of Jesus, the names that this man Ruben calls people.

and to think that this man is a "mentor" to Jesse? Lord have mercy...please. It's worse than I thought.

Jesse, if you're reading I BEG you in the Name of Jesus, get as far away from this man as you can...please. Please re-read the "Life of Brainerd" again, like you did a few years back...please, hear me. I BEG YOU in the Name of Jesus.

bartle

ps...I can't even comment on Giles, this is just bad, the devil is cunning, but thank you for sharing this Patrick.

Ruben is a personal friend, not a mentor.

I wasn't sure about him at first. I saw some pictures of him and thought, "He seems a bit too extreme." And I thought he would probably be harsh and unloving.

But having personally preached with him a few times, my opinion (for what it's worth) is that he loves God and the lost.

Basicly what this all comes down to is a different perspective, a different theology.

I believe in preaching to sinners as criminals. Bartle and others believe in preaching to sinners as victims. I believe in confronting sin. Bartle believes in "meeting needs". I believe in preaching so as to convict sinners. Bartle and others believe in preaching so as to comfort sinners.

You know what this means? It simply means that we disagree.

We need to be mature enough to disagree. Some people cannot be this mature and quickly resort to judging, condemning, name calling, and even questioning a persons salvation.

I haven't personally attacked anyone here or call anyone names. But I feel I have been attacked and called names like "anti-christ" and have had my salvation questioned.

We should be able to discuss the "issues" without making personal attacks.

Anyways, I've checked with some brothers in the Lord about this video everyone keeps talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiV_NOp_YlE

And they have agreed that it's an excellent video. I know that 3-4 people on these boards may not like it. And you are allowed to disagree with me. 10+ people have told me that video is great.

[b]One open air preacher said,[/b] "I seriously didn't find anything wrong with your preaching in that video. I thought it was good"

[b]Another open air preacher said,[/b] "I watched it and I believe it is Biblical preaching. Keep preaching Jesse."

[b]EVEN AN UNSAVED SINNER SAID,[/b] "No, in all honesty, I cannot define you in these terms such as hard, cold, mean and hateful,"

But ultimately the opinions of people do not matter. I believe everything I said in that video was 100% biblical, and my motive was that of love. If I said something unscriptural, give me the scripture.

It seems that many of the people that constantly criticize me are the same people that are constantly criticizing "big name" preachers. It seems that unless someone completely agrees with them 100%, they will call them "of the devil" etc etc.

My only encouragement would be that you shouldn't be so quick to judge and condemn someone or their heart. Some of these posts have been very mean-spirited,unloving, condemning and judgmental. Becareful of that. Watch the friendly fire.

okay.

Ruben is a personal friend and not a mentor.

and you tell me that he loves God and loves the lost.

okay.

Did you know that your "personal friend" Ruben has a website that refers to people as "fags" and "homos", and uses the term _____ ([i]edited-by moderator[/i]) (please forgive me Greg for that foulness, just repeating what I read)

Thats Ruben's "love" for the lost?

If you consider that "love", brother you are operating under a powerful delusion, and thats not an "attack", I'm confronting you, and I would have no problem nor hesitation confronting you or Ruben to your face, or by phone and saying the same thing.

I never said sinners are victims, they are lost, sin-sick "helpless and harrassed" lost sheep.

"Bartle" does not believe in "meeting needs", bartle believes in the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit and reflecting the Love of Jesus to love the unlovable WHERE THEY ARE AT, not inciting the lost to begin chanting "LUST LUST LUST" like that man Giles did in that one video, Lord have mercy.

Of course you can get people to tell you a video is great, there are plenty of folks around to stroke your ego, believe me, I know this well, all too well, and constantly ask God to wean me from self exhalation and give the Glory ALL to Him.

And Jesse, i don't criticize "big name preachers", no sir. I make a point to say who or Whom I'm drawn to, and other than my friend in Detroit I have not met one OA preacher I feel drawn to, no offense, coz i remember a few years back I was drawn to you. I even suggested that you come out and stay with me in Cali, and we could have an old fashioned tent meeting, thats how drawn to you I was. But that didnt happen, coz God ordains all things, and I watched and I prayed for you, always, and I looked for growth in Grace in you.

and I beg you in Jesus Name, veer far far away from men like Ruben Israel, Giles, Jed Smock.
Hear me Jesse. This is not a personal attack and I beg your forgiveness if it seems as such, coz it ain't. I'm confronting you as a brother, veer far away from men like this.

let me be a bit transparent now, its my weekend and I have time to write: that woman's voice at Georgia Tech sounded like my ex-wife, the mother of my boy. I love her so much, she divorced me, i would have never ever divorced her, and after I was saved she divorced me. My pastor/mentor/bestfriend Ted and I met and prayed over this and we agreed that I would do nothing, I would "lay down", not contest anything. Obviously I'm still single today, don't "date", etc. Her older sister, who is born again, and who I believe was the one that prayed me into the Kingdom of Heaven....we began to pray for her,DAILY and now today she is born-again, she loves Jesus, and we have begun to re-connect the threads of our friendship...now mind you, she re-marrried, I have a strong friendship with her new husband, no jealousy there, or weird human agenda.

That said (by the way, our 11 year old, at his own heart space, asked Jesus into his life and was baptized at 7, and attends a twice a week Bible study youth group, he's a good boy)

anyway, I know this woman, I've known her for 25 year, since she was a girl, and she was always a spiritual seeker....man, she was into everything, questing after everything, buddha, crystals, any kind of California type spiritualism....I used to make such fun of all that, she's always been a seeker, and I was totally unspiritual, (until the Holy Ghost did a half nelson on me, thank God) and the dialogue you had with that girl reminded me of her, and brother I say this NOT as an attack, but trying to convey a reality to you, If that had been her, my ex-wife, that encounter would have sent her so far away from Christ......if she had seen Ruben doing his thing, in her unsaved life, she would have possibly walked away from Christ forever.....but praise God, she never ran across a Ruben Israel, instead she had a loving brother(me) and sister praying for her daily, praise the name of Jesus!

Jes, this is not an attack, more like an admonition......please, get away from those guys.

I love you, bartle

whatever your name is: don't burst

I didnt engage in Scriptural exegesis( is that the word for Scriptural analysis?) with Jesse because quite it feels pointless.

But I will engage you, for what it's worth.

Jesse quoted the first verse of Isaiah 58, while ignoring the body of this chapter that to me is a call to action, and bespeaks of how one walks out the Gospel, that is the so-called tension between "social" Gospel and "salvation" Gospel. I believe that the two are one....social and salvation Gospel are the Gospel.They are not seperate, and as you did, to imply that I'm a "humanist" is the same kind of pejorative as saying a person is a child molestor

The c and d part of the 12th verse of Isaiah 58 is the crescendo of that mighty chapter, (and I quote from the NIV, most here use the KJV, but I'm not as smart as them)

"you will be called Repairer of Broken Walls,
Restorer of Streets with Dwellings".

Right after the first verse which is to cry aloud to the people of their sins, is the call to action:

"to loose the chains of injustice".....Is 58:6b

...."share your food with the hungry" Is 58:7a

"when you see the naked, to clothe him" Is 58:7c

to me the Book of Isaiah is the centerpiece of the OT prophecy of the Messiah to come as exemplified thru the Four "Suffering Servant" songs (Isaiah 42:1-9, 49:1-13, 50:4-11, and the peak of this prophecy 52:13-53:12.....as well as what the Lord read to the synagogue in his hometown of Nazareth Isaiah 61:1-2......."because the Lord has annointed me to preach good news to the poor".....)

Who said the "rich young man" was "turned off" from God? Not Jesus, in the Lucian (18:18-30 account, the Bible says the young man was "sad" because he had great wealth and the Lord said , "How hard it is for the rich to enter the Kingdom of God".....he didnt say impossible, because in the 27th verse Jesus says "what is impossible with men is possible with God"

now when you write a sentence like this:

But the Lord knew from the beginning who was going to believe and who wasn't

that sounds almost like predestination, which I counter with, i don't know if there is such a thing as predestination, if there is, why witness to the lost?...if its already been predetermined who will be saved and who will not, why witness?....thats why I say "I don't know" if its predetermined who will drink of the Living Water of Christ, coz we have to witness the Love of Jesus, we have to preach the Good News, the Gospel, thats a Divine Mandate.

Now you also said this:

It seems you are unwilling to accept the fact that the Lord could use someone like Jesse Morell to save a sinner.

the Lord can use a donkey, but I ask you this, the enemy knows Scripture, thats a fact, do you think that the enemy can use a man like Ruben Israel to drive sinners AWAY from God? I think so, as having gone to this man's website and read that foul bile, and heard his "preaching".

Praise God if Jesse Morrell saves ONE sinner, but if he calls a man like Ruben israel a friend, a man who's forty something befriending a young street preacher of 24, how many will this union stumble and drive away from Christ?

You write to me of the lunacy of sin as described by the puritans, but a LOT of these lost kids out there don't even believe in God, they believe the Bible is myth and an irrelevancy, they are sick...to me its the same thing as a person with a fever or a deadly disease. They see a fractured church, they see scandal after scandal, preachers cruising for prostitutes, roman priests molesting boys (and maybe sometimes girls) they see the ridicoulous charade of TBN and the hellhounds on that channel baying and barking for money, and to them the "church" represents something that is NOT of Jesus, the Bible just a book thats waved around by megaphone wielding hypocrites and fakers with an agenda......hence they get a disease, and that's religionitis. Every single person I ever met who is angry at God has one thing in common, somewhere in their background they were hurt either by the church, or someone representing the church or comporting themselves as "born-again" and beating them over the head with a bible, instead of just loving them with Spirit filled Jesus love in a relational way.

these campus OA's are the same thing as a "christian" drive by shooting, just blast in, blast away, and split.

If one person gets saved, Bless God, but with a man like this Giles having a bunch of kids at georgia Tech chanting "lust lust lust!!", I kinda doubt any Gospel fruit can be gleaned by that terrible hellish "ministry".

If you have a relative with a fever you offer them medicine, if you don't understand my meaning, or wish to insult me by implying I'm some humanistic adherent to the purpose driven thing. Thats just assumption on your part, you have no idea whats in my library and I'll you this, i have never read purpose driven, nor do I have any idea what its about, nor any interest in it. What I find so distressing is that you would even equate me with anything like a humanist, which is just a evangelical way to insult a believer by catergorizing me as some godless do-gooder. FYI, right now, besides my daily Bible reading, I'm reading the autobiography of the Reverend Josiah Henson, the man upon whom Harriet Beecher Stowe based the character of "Uncle Tom", copyright 1881, bought off of ebay, before that it was the Reverend John Rankins "Letters on Slavery", a 1970 reprint of an 1837 copyright....is that okay?

Scriptural support for all inclusive foot washing?

sure.

"Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you should also wash one anothers feet". John 13:14

let me ask you two questions: have you ever participated in a foot washing in a church?

second question: if you saw a homeless person, dirty and hurting, have you ever offered them the use of your shower, soap and towels.

what i believe you said was that servanthood only applies to believers and not to "sinners"...if you beleive that way, you are missing the mark by a wide wide margin.

you took another statement I made out of context; which was to take pictures of the poeple at outreach, get to know their name and pray over these pictures and told me that heartspace "screams humanism".....I'll tell you what unnamed poster with the moniker of "Isaiah 64, this reminds me of what Gandhi was quoted as saying, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ" . John Sung who was the John Wesley of the Chinese church of the early 20th century collected photos to pray over, thats where that came from. You can look up John Sung on your own.

you wrote:

Again, this screams 'humanism.' God's love is not some kind of sentimental feeling as you imply

what is love? Love is sentiment, God is love, Jesus wept over Lazarus because he was sad, this sadness was sentiment. We call God "Father", "Abba"...how does your human father feel about you? with love, and that is a sentiment, an emotion, the Bible is an emotional Writ full of sentiment and mystery, and you speak to me of "hard truths"....its because human hearts are HARD, God's heart is mercy, as He said "I desire mercy, not sacrifice".

Why don't believers realize what Jesus meant when He said,

"Come to me, all you are weary and burdened and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light".

Matthew 11:28-30

why do I never hear that soaring loving verse ever preached from an OA preacher? In fact I've listened to many many sermons, and I've never heard this passage preached on...is that passage a "hard truth"?

or how about this one:

"But Jesus called the children to Him and said, "Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for the Kingdom of God belongs to such as these. I tell you the truth, anyone who will not recieve the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it".

Luke 18:16-17

what does that mean to you?

I know what that means to me, and to me that's the whole Heart of the Good News, to have the faith of a child.....how did Jesus term His yoke,
"easy", how did He term Himself? "gentle and humble in heart"

oh oh....wait a minute, a "gentle" Jesus? Heaven forbid, I might be guilty of a speaking of a "touchy feely" God, and thats not the "hard truth" is it? that might "scream humanism"...then why was it that a major part of Jesus' earthly ministry was healing the sick, and driving out demons....was He a "humanist"?

You say you wrote your post out of love...maybe, I don't know your heart...I don't even know your name, so all I can say is God bless you.

try in the future to say God bless YOU...."God bless", always seems like a prefunctory christianese brush-off.....or maybe "may God bless you is my prayer", and include your name next time.

ok?

[b]This was my latest post on SermonIndex:[/b]

I've only been a Christian a little over five years.

I have only been preaching open air for about five years.

I have only read the Old Testament 5 times.

I have only read the New Testament 15 times.

I do pray but sometimes it's only an hour or two a day. And I fast very little.

I am still young and still growing.

I know that many of you on these boards have been Christians longer, preaching longer, and know more bible then me.

But I'm not entirely unlearned. I do have a lot of zeal, but am not entirely without knowledge. I have a personal library that consists of over a thousand books. And I read them often. And they are not modern day trashy books, they are classics.

But in my few years of Christianity, and with my limited knowledge, I am still very discouraged at the amount of disunity there is in the body of Christ.

I used to be very hard on preachers that I didn't agree with completely. But I have become a bit more ecumenical.

I personally do like Ruben Israel and Jed Smock. Others do not. I know both personally. I also like Ray Comfort. Many do not. I also like Michael Brown. Many do not. I also like Leonard Ravenhill. Many do not. I also like Ron Luce. Many do not. I also like Winkie Pratney. Many do not. Some do not like David Wilkerson. But I do. I also like John Wesley and Charles Finney. Many do not. I also like Charles Spurgeon and Jonathon Edwards. Many do not.

Some men today call these men heretics, other call them heros. But I believe they all love the Lord, even if I don't agree 100% with them.

Take even Benny Hinn for example. I constantly hear people criticize him. And biblically, I belive he has said some wrong things. But I have also asked men who personally know him what they think. I have spoken to Ron Luce with Teen Mania Ministries and Winkie Pratney with YWAM, who are both personal friends of mine.. These men both know Benny and both say, "While I may disagree with some of what he has said, I do believe he loves God and has a relationship with Jesus."

So my heart is just grieved at the amount of disunity in the body of Christ.

I know that David Ravenhill (a personal friend of mine) will not preach with Andrew Strom (also a good personal friend of mine). David and Andrew do not preach together because of what Andrew has said about Michael Brown. Now Andrew Strom does not like Michael Brown and also will not preach with Ruben Israel. Ruben Israel will preach with Both Jed Smock, Jim Gilles and John Duncan. But Jim Gilles and John Duncan will not preach with Jed Smock. And on and on the division goes. It never ends. It just keeps going.

I just try to stay out of all this division and simply focus on reaching the lost for Jesus Christ.

Some really do not like Ron Luce, but I do. They criticize him for using Christian Rock bands at Aquire the Fire. Some do not like Winkie Pratney and call him a heretic, but I like him. They say he is a heretick because he's moral government, denies original sin, believes in perfection, and is an open theist. Some do not like Jed or Ruben or Duncan or Gilles, because of their evangelism methods, but I do like them. Some do not like Andrew Strom because of his criticism of other preachers, but I do like him. Some do not like Michael Brown because of what happend at Brownsville, but I do like him. Some do not like Ray Comfort because he's on TBN but doesn't preach against Duplantis and Copeland. But I like Ray a lot. Some do not like The Great News Network and say terrible things about them because they use magic tricks and give away money in street ministry. But I greatly respect the work that they do.

So that's just my heart.

I'm just so tired of the criticism and division because it never seems to end.

Wesley and Whitefield were divided for many years but then reconciled. And I agree with Wesley, "If your heart is the same as my heart, take my hand." That is my philosphy for ministry.

You can disagree with me, that's fine. But just make sure that you love God, serve God, and seek and save the lost.

I really appreciate what you do as well Kerrigan.

And really appreciate your maturity enough to discuss and debate theology, without attacking each other etc etc.

And I love you message on the cross.

We need more preachers like you!

And great new OAP website!!

Brother Mike,

(and to every one else)

Please forgive me for quoting a foul foul word that I read on a website on this forum, our church. I am very sorry and thank you for editing it out.

and thank you for that exhortation to us all, it was wisely written, and I shall take it to heart.

your brother bartle

Praise God for this bit writing you did:

There is no limit to how far this kind of human depravation can take us. God’s people have committed the most horrific of sins, under the banner of “I’m following God’s Word, I’m doing it in love.” Just study history – beginning in the Bible. None of us remains stagnant. We are always moving either upwards or downwards. Of course, the slippery slop downward is a much more natural possibility for us all (!!)

that made impact on my heart, thank you and may the Lord bless you is my prayer, bartle

That was a good post.

I understand precisely what you are trying to say.

PRECISELY, and agree with you.

and I, as do you, love Michael Brown, of all the guys you mentioned, he's the only I really know, feel drawn to. Maybe its because we're both Jews saved by Grace, and the way he speaks and the topics he addresses I understand, kind of like a New Testament rabbi....I don't know.

But my dear brother Jesse, without rancor or division, I say this, i appreciate that Jed Smock, Ruben Israel and Giles are your friends, but i say this with my whole heart and soul as the lord leads:(and I say this gently) please, in ministry, veer far away from them.

Please, I beg you, don't be offended by that, I love you bro, and I would rather die this second than offend or stumble you, know my heart.

I have many friends among my workplace, dear friends, unsaved, I love them, but outside the work environment I have very little interfacing with them, may God bless them.

much love to you in Christ, neil

[image][img]http://www.officialstreetpreachers.com/HOMOSIN2MODIFIED2.jpg[/img]

There is absolutely no place for this type of preaching that is shown above. It would [b]shame[/b] the Apostles. One of the litmus tests of our preaching if it is apostolic and genuine, is: does it bring the jews to jealously?

please allow me to coin you a moniker a nickname for the forum: let me call you "Ike"..(saying this with a loving tone) coz I thought Ike was a great American president, and hence since I agree with 99% of what you just wrote is sound and correct...which is another way of saying "great", so allow me to call you "Ike".

Ike, your a pastor, or an elder, I can tell, bless God, and I was cut to the quick when I read your first sentence in your reply:

I'm sorry if you got the wrong impression from my post. I know it's hard to see what tone we're using when we post, but I was asking sincere questions to you. I didn't mean to insult you, if you look back at my post you can see I only pointed out that there was a hint of humanism in what you were saying. I meant nothing more

oh brother, elder, it cut me to the quick, fore this is the bane of cyber communication, you can't SEE eyes, you cant HEAR tone, please forgive me, your admonition has been recieved with an open heart, thank you.

My day begins with Bible reading, and the Lord has impressed upon me to read and re-read the Gospels, along with Acts, and as I was in Luke 16, 17, 18, I'm reading with an open heart, and I was pondering, how on one hand the Things of God are mystery and at the same time crystal clear.

When I use the word, "mystery"...I don't mean like some gnostic "mystery cult"...no no no, Heaven forbid, but as I absorb into my soul, these Words, I know and don't know.

I realize I'm not explaining myself ADEQUATELY. Theology to me, is a hard word, and then I concentrate on what I do KNOW:

Jesus is Lord, Jesus is Messiah, Jesus is God and God is love, and he who lives in love, lives in God and God in him.

I know that: If you believe that "if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

I know that: Faith is a gift, and the opposite of faith is fear.

In essence, I know and believe that the Bible is the inerrant, infallible Word of God, and I believe God, and that God opposes the proud.

Yes.

I also know that Christ, Messiah lives IN me, and the Gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit helps. nurtures, grows a follower of Jesus.

God has given me a gifting, and it is my heart cry to use these giftings for His Glory, not for self exhalation.

Outside of that, I don't know much of the various "ism's" and "ist's" of Christendom, and I use that word deliberately.

I had no intention of arguing "predestination" because I have no hestitation in saying "I don't know".....God knows.

I see the lost all around me, I read the headlines of a dead and dying world, and this darkness that has been falling causes me much grief, and I long for the "heavenly Jerusalem".

In my life, if I can drag ONE from the flames, I praise God. If thru the Spirit, I can lay hands on one, and heal them in Jesus' Name, I praise God.

But its all a mystery to me, why did God choose me to recieve and be receptive to His Grace, and cleanse me thru the Blood?

Why?

I don't know, but i do know how grateful this heart is at so great a salvation.

Dear Ike, one of the men of the Bible I find myself studying, loving is King David. A man after Gods heart, yet flawed and complex, a man who yielded both pen, musical instruments and sword...wow......but was so human, that he lanquished while his men were engaged in battle, and saw a naked woman bathing, used his station in life to get her, messed up in sin, schemed to murder his loyal solider and lieutenant when he couldnt scheme his way out of his sin, and then when Nathan confronted him in the Leading of the Lord, David confessed in an instant....

I could go on and on, but let me stop, I have to go write.

Please accept my apologies at seeming sarcastic and confrontational. It was the word "humanist" that set my hackles up. I see these secular worldly do-gooder's operating without the Power of God, the Spirit of God, and I think to myself, "don't you realize how fallen and craven we are left to our own devices?...and yet they go thru this painful charade as though their works of charity will justify them?

I hear them say, "I have hope for mankind"....and to me that is insanity. This world is doomed, fallen, the god of this world will assure that. They thought science would be the answer, (and I'm not anti-science) but these humanists have made science their god, and what has science gave the world?

Oh sure, we have lights, we have cars, we have corn fields yielding 200 bushels an acre, but we also have these cars spewing out filth that will destroy the very air we breathe, our factories spew out filth to destroy the water, and now we have tried to mimic the power of God, by splitting the atom, and for a brief instant we create the power of the sun that God himself made with His Hands. Woe. For in the future these weapons will be used with immpunity, all restraint will go by the wayside, and the Four Horseman shall gallop across the face of the earth.

It is as clear as day, it was to John Zebedee, exiled to the island of Patmos so may centuries ago.

But i have faith in God and fear Him alone, not man.

Elder Ike, bless you for your prayers, as i send mine heavenward for you at this moment.

bartle

More and more I am convinced that:

If Joseph Alliene tried to publish his classic , "Alarm to Unconverted Sinners" where he writes to sinners, "how does it feel to be the object of God's hatred?" and "Does it not greatly disturb you to know that God Almighty abhors you?" he would not be able to sell his book in any Christian book stores today.

If Jonathon Edwards preached his famous "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" sermon today, were he told sinners, "God abhors you!" he would be voted out of his Church today as he was in his day.

If John Wesley preached his doctrine of "Sinless Perfection" and "Original Ability" today as he did in his day, Christian magazines would publish against him and call him a heretick, and all Church doors would close on him, as it happened in his day.

If George Whitefield preached to sinners today, as he did in his day, and called them such names as "half devil, half beast, deserving of a thousand hells" he would be beaten and even stoned as he was in his day.

If William Booth used his shock & awe evangelism methods today as he did in his day, and argued like a mad man with an unbrella until a crowd gathered for him to preach to, he would be kicked out of modern evangelism networks, just as he was kicked out of the Methodist Church in his day.

Let's get honest. Just as Israel did with the prophets, we seem to build statues to these men now that they are dead. But if they were alive and preaching today, we would not treat them any better then they were treated by their own generation.

I think this debate goes far deeper then preachers wearing bible t-shirts.

I think some people actually do not believe that God abhors sinners. And that is why they don't like preachers who say that God does.

Even if we don't like it being on t-shirts, banners, and sandwhich boards, can we all at least agree that God does abhor, not only homosexuals, but all sinners because of their sin? Can we all at least agree that a Holy God only delights in holiness and therefore detests anything that is unholy?

A man who views otherwise has the wrong perspective of God and the wrong perspective of sinners.

Ps 5:6 - You shall destroy those who speak falsehood; The Lord abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.

Now King David didn't write it on a sandwhich board, but like Joseph Alliene who wrote it in his book and Jonathan Edwards who wrote it in his sermon, King David UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT wrote it in the bible. And maybe preachers today, under the influence of the Holy Spirit, are preaching it today!

how does it feel?

y'know, to have God abhor you?

coz you're a sinner.

Oh I know you profess and confess Jesus as Saviour, but are you without sin?

You never sin?...anymore, not at all?

never a deed, nor a thought that is sinful?

Can you tell me, that you Jesse Morrell does not sin?

You can be a sinner saved by Grace, but you cannot tell me, that in this "tent we inhabit"
groaning, that you are without sin.

then, I ask you, how does it feel to know that God "abhors" you?

Brother, God have mercy on you, you have gone so far off the rails, that it takes my breath away.

heartbroken, bartle

having just re-read "Sinners in the Hands of an angry God", by Jonathan Edwards I'm perplexed at the seeming tendency of believers to submit this sermon into the realms of canon...almost on par with the Holy Scriptures.

The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours.

I've noticed a tendency towards "they" or "you"
when hellfire preachers speak, never "I". Never "I" have been saved by Grace, by a Loving and Merciful God.

In my mind, the best book that Edwards ever "wrote" was to reprint the journals of David Brainerd, "The Life of Brainerd" and what has always impacted me was how Brainerd agonized over his own "unprofitableness" and his inability and unsuitability for ministry, and his thankfulness that God gave him the strength to preach the Gospel, and if you read this book, when David was given unction, and preached the Gospel, he would frequently say "much sweetness" attended the message he gave to the "heathen", who he loved deeply and with concern, agonizing over there fate and their faith.

what a vessel this man was , humble and loving, when I meet him some day, I will express my regret that I couldn't partner up with him in that ministry in the backwoods of New Jersey circa 1744-47.

sinners, I don't see them as "they" or "you", I see them as "me" before, and Jesus says, "love your neighbor as yourself".

As Jesus, my worst ire is reserved for the neo-pharisees who fancy themselves as "modern day prophets", white washed tombs, hypocrites, serving up a self-righteous message of condemnation that purports itself as "love"

Self proclaimed self righteous "prophets" serving up a gospel that is no gospel at all, but a cruel cruel stumbling stone, heaping burdens on the lost that they cannot bear, but the Lord knows, He sees beyond the megaphone and the sandwich boards, and peers right into the hearts of these neo-pharisees, and HE KNOWS.

"he who is without sin cast the first stone"

and all you neo-pharisees will melt away like wax in a fire.

I have traveled and preached with many open air preachers. From the straight turn or burn preachers, to the street entertainers who use magic tricks and gimmicks.

My only criticism for open air preachers today is that:

1. We need more seriousness

2. We need more dependancy on the anointing if Holy Spirit

3. We need more love and compassion for sinners

4. We need more anger and hatred for sin

5. We need more knowledge of the scriptures.

6. We need much deeper prayer and fasting lives

7. We need more preaching like found in Acts.

Just my few thoughts.

Your post is one of the reasons that I love SI so much, I get turned onto guys and minstries that I know nothing about previously, but that upon further investigation, I find men, such as these, who I am drawn to.

Wonderful, thank you.

Drawn to the "emerging church" myself, here's the section in Mr. Lambert's essay that impacted me:

Succinctly stated, one branch of this new movement seems to be detaching itself from the historic Christian faith and from mainstream doctrine in order to be more culturally relevant and more seeker-friendly. In contrast there is a smaller stream of young and gifted new leaders who strongly adhere to the historic proclamation of the gospel and to conservative theology. Both types of churches tend to "deconstruct" denominational and traditional evangelical/charismatic traditions, and they all take a strong "missional" approach of vigorously engaging the local culture. Many of the leaders in this movement are disillusioned evangelicals, some, I would say, are real apostates, others are theological liberals, yet a good number are well-read and godly reformers--rooted, anchored in the Bible and allowing Jesus Christ to direct all they do

Personally, I am in the smaller stream, coz if it ain't about Jesus, and standing on the Word of God, forget it. "theologically liberal" is a dead end street, no doubt about it.

I'm bookmarking these guys, thanks my brother, good eye.

bartle

ps....but "leadership" is not one of my giftings!! :) as you well know.

This is from an article in "Christianity Today". I believe this posting is not off topic, but widens the topic of this thread:

the question from the interviewer:

You say there are particular theologies attached to traditional, contemporary, and emerging churches? What are they, and what are Mars Hill's distinctives?

Marks answer:

Traditional churches have either leaned toward being fundamentalist and separated from culture, which has led to legalism and irrelevance; or they have leaned toward being liberally synchronized with culture, which leads to compromise and irrelevance. Either way, many traditional churches are irrelevant, whether they lean to the Left or the Right theologically and politically. Most contemporary churches are not very theological beyond a few evangelical basics, because they are guided more by pragmatism and programming than theology. At Mars Hill Church, we are driven by Reformed theological convictions and emerging missional methods. I like to say we are theologically conservative and culturally liberal.

(later addition) according to Mark, the 3 R's

he was asked:What do you think needs to be the relationship between church and culture?

Mark responds:

The difficulty is that there are actually three ways that faithful Christians and churches must respond to culture:

[b]Reject[/b]—Some aspects of a culture are simply sinful and should be rejected by God's people. In our day this would include sexual sins (fornication, pornography, homosexuality, adultery), illegal drug use, and the pluralistic notion that every religion is an equally valid path to salvation.

[b]Receive[/b]—Some aspects of a culture are the result of common grace and should be received by God's people. Examples in our day would include stewarding and enjoying creation, building community, and acts of mercy for the poor, widows, orphans, sick, and elderly.

[b]Redeem[/b]—Some aspects of a culture are, in and of themselves, morally neutral but are used for evil, and can be redeemed for good. Examples in our day include using media portals (e.g., internet, podcast, vodcast) for the gospel, celebrating sex within heterosexual marriage, and spending money and using power in such a way that honors Jesus and demonstrates his love for people

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/127/52.0.html

Often it seems to me that people who are drawn to open air preaching are people who really love Jesus and therefore hate sin a great deal.

And in our preaching, our anger and hatred towards sin can be very easily mistaken as anger and hatred for sinners.

This is something us open air preachers should work on fixing.

So now I often tell sinners, "I am here because I love you. I care about you and don't want you to to go hell. God says in Revelations that as many as He loves and rebukes. So I love you enough to tell you the truth, so that you might turn from sin and turn to Jesus and recieve His grace, mercy, and forgiveness."

I'm not sure. I've been thinking about that for a while. I know the word says, "Be holy as your Father in Heaven is holy".

Is there any area in our life that we are not required to be Christ-like in?

This I do know, "You who love the Lord, hate that which is evil." Ps 97:10

As of now, I would say that we need to love sinners with Christs love, and hate sin with God's hatred.

Guys,

Honestly, my preaching hasn't changed at all. My preaching is still the same. My heart is still the same.

I have nothing but anger and hatred in my heart for sin. And nothing but love and compassion in my heart for sinners.

But about [b]once a year[/b] I preach with some people that you guys don't like. That's ok.

But as far as my heart and my preaching, it's overall the same as it's been for the past 5 years. I preach about sin and I preach about Jesus.

I believe the key to street/open air preaching is what Gideon Ousley called, "The disease and the cure." Our preaching ought to be against sin and for Jesus. It ought to attack iniquity and exalt the Savior. That is true evangelism preaching!

We must be lead of the Holy Spirit.

Sometimes the Spirit may lead us to lay hands on someone to blind them, as He did Paul.

Other times the Spirit may lead us to an Ethiopian who is ripe just waiting to be harvested.

The Spirit knows how to deal with each individual differently. And we must know how to let the Holy Spirit deal with us, that we might be useful to the gospel of Jesus.

Jesse,

I appreciate you and have personally met with you and talked with you, fellowshipped with you. My concern is that most of your posting in a defence of your ministry and style of street preaching in most regards. I think it is becoming to a point of wastefulness to continue discussing these things. I have said this twice in other threads in the last 3-4 months for you not to post updates from your ministry and justify the methods and happenings around your public ministry.

If you wish to discuss things on sermonindex not just about your ministry and open air preaching that would be fruitful but I think to get away from discussing your "ministry" would be good. People are welcome to go to your forums and discuss these issues to length but I am asking for these type of discussions to cease on sermonindex.

You need not defend your ministry to "no end" just do what the Lord has called you to do.

There are things we can discuss and agree on more in these forums being Scripture, prayer, the need for revival, testimonies of life's before us, etc.

I appreciate your adherence to this brother.

There is nothing I hate more then these discussion board debates.

I would never be the one to even mention them, if some other posters didn't bring up the topic.

It seems that no matter what I post about, they always turn the thread into an issue about me and the preaching.

If you could, please give them a warning to stop doing that.

Thanks!

jesse

Also, is it that no street preacher can post stories and updates or is it just me?

Because I would like to regularly post stories about the salvations. People are getting regularly saved, by the grace of God, as we preach. And I think those salvation stories would encourage other laborers.

Jesse,

I appreciate you and have personally met with you and talked with you, fellowshipped with you. My concern is that most of your posting in a defence of your ministry and style of street preaching in most regards. I think it is becoming to a point of wastefulness to continue discussing these things. I have said this twice in other threads in the last 3-4 months for you not to post updates from your ministry and justify the methods and happenings around your public ministry.

If you wish to discuss things on sermonindex not just about your ministry and open air preaching that would be fruitful but I think to get away from discussing your "ministry" would be good. People are welcome to go to your forums and discuss these issues to length but I am asking for these type of discussions to cease on sermonindex.

You need not defend your ministry to "no end" just do what the Lord has called you to do.

There are things we can discuss and agree on more in these forums being Scripture, prayer, the need for revival, testimonies of life's before us, etc.

I appreciate your adherence to this brother.

[b]It seems that no matter what I post about, they always turn the thread into an issue about me and the preaching.[/b]

I believe its because you are posting on subjects of open air primarly towards shock and awe and more "extreme" types of street preaching. I know God is doing a work and using us all. Keep doing your ministry and do pray to God for direction. I believe there are alot of things for you to pray and gleam from in this thread.

I don't have problems with some people sharing testimony of what God is doing in their life. But as I have asked and quoted again I am asking for you not to post updates and about your ministry, it has just gotten too controversial. I think our energies need to be put towards [b]doing[/b] the will of God and not discussing as much about it.

I am [b]locking[/b] this thread and asking people to adhere to not talking about Jesse's ministry in the forums. If people have questions for Jesse they can go to: www.openairoutreach.com and address him personally.

You are welcome to still post on the forums Jesse but please don't post ministry updates and doctrinal and biblical issues towards proving ideals about open air. There are many other ways for you to contribute on [b]these[/b] forums.

Thank you for everyone to respect these rules.

Dear brother Greg Gordon. It is always a delight when you come in to moderate. It reminds me of George washington at the constitutional debates. Your air of authroity is there but you do not Lord it over us until it is necessary. Thank you. God bless, John