" reasons I reject the modern Bibles "

Reason no 1. Most new editions fail to distinguish
between "known" and "unknown tongues" [1 cor 14:2]

Reason no 2 . Most new editions have eliminated
Matthew 17:21 from their texts, or only have at
the bottom of their pages in parenthesis ( )
insinuating and casting doubt, as to wether it
should have been included from the original
manuscripts.

Their is no doubt about it's inclusion, because
what these other counterfeit bible publishers -
don't want you to know, is often God bears witness by ... repeating the same text in another
book !!( hence we find the same verse in Mark 9:24 ) So to cast doubt as to wether it belongs
is to be showing clever manipulation and a bold
faced lie ) caught-out !!

Friends often things are repeated in the four accounts of Christ's life, and so the diligent
and the knowledgable can often spot the lie at
WORK. !!

For this reason their are at least 2 to 3 accounts
of teaching on what "constitutes the blaspheming of the Holy Ghost" and so often people get caught
out when they teach it impossible to commit that
offence in the 21st century, as they say Christ
has ascended and no longer ministering in person
so it is impossible therefore to commit that
offence, but a closer read teaches that Christ
taught blasphemy against him is forgivable and
always will be - but it is and was, blasphemy
against the spirit of God ( the Holy Ghost ) which
was the concern and issue at....hand

And we all know the Holy Ghost is still present, and in the earth....as we speak - and read now.

So God cathes out the lies and the false teachers
this way - with the repeat passages, just said
in a slightly different way, that is ...all !!!

Reason no 3. Because of the way new bibles hack to
shreds and remove words from 1 John 5:7-8 taking out ...up to 20 word and more !!

Some editions reducing verse seven to meager 7
words - instead of the 22 words we find in the
( KJV ) edition - that is from the 1611 edition.

Not to mention the same crime commited in verse 8

Implying the texts don't belong again

It's all lies friends !!!

This is why we rejrct the modern bibles

Hi guys,

Why is there so much emphasis on the "newest" "coolest" water proof, remix edition teachers, soldiers, hunters, fisherman's, lightest, easy read versions? Because it reflects how fat and immature believers are in these times. We want to look a little holier than thou, you by a study bible that is filled with some other guys interpretation of the scriptures. (Not against study Bibles, but against status symbols) Get real people, do we really need a water proof NIV? In all honesty we don't need that version anyway.

The point is that we are Christians and we shouldn't compromise with the world so as to win the world. That is what many of the publishers are saying about their products. They trying to gear them toward the unsaved. But that is impossible to do. We cant give that which is holy to the dogs...

One more thing, What is the deal with these "Biblezines". They have to be the worst thing that these money hungry publishers have come up with. Just take a look at the covers and see the compromise. They are supposed to help young women with their teen years and dating. Dating is not even in the Holy scriptures so they must be twisting something around. This is but another promoter of Christian stagnation.

""The copyright"" To my understanding the KJV is the only Bible not copyrighted, or was not. This says a lot. The other versions are out to make a buck and terrified if you use more than 100 words with their paraphrases. The KJV is far superior for the furthering of the Kingdom. (We can use as much scripture as we want and not get in trouble for it...)

Let Christians not get caught up in this "newest/ coolest" thinking and then become stagnant. Let us not compromise as these money hungry publishers have. Let us be content as our Christians of 300 years ago. Lets stick with a battle hardened KJV. Not some wimpy "revolve" Biblezine!

It goes much deeper than this.

Please do a search of the site before retreading previously covered ground, there has been a lot of mileage given to this already ...

How tremendous it is that the note of bitter criticism accompanying some of these discussions is what makes any truth of the matter all but worthless. It is getting weary, hearing all this pontificating on matters beyond our understanding and experience, far worse is the spiritual pride.

Jam 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

ack! this has been revisited and revisited and revisited! :-)foreeeeeeeeeeeeeevvvvvvvvveeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrr and eeeeeeeevvvvvvvveeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrr ;-)
KJVonlyadvocate: "i dont like the new translations cause they take stuff out of the bible"
newversionadvocate: "oh yeah, well i dont like thte old translation cause it adds stuff to the bible"
kjvonlyadvocate: "well my manuscripts have it, and they've been used by the church for at least 1000 years"
newversionadvocate: "well my manuscripts dont and they're older than yours"
(here's the best part, wishful thinking maybe)
kjvonlyadvocate: "wait do my "extra" verses make me believe in heretical doctrines according to your church/beliefs?"
newversionadvocate: "well no they dont, do my "lost" verses make me believe in heretical doctrines according to your church/beliefs?"
kjvonlyadvocate: "well no they dont"
newversionadvocate:hmmm.....dont the Jehovah's witnesses use a new version(granted their own) but a new version?
kjvonlyadvocate:yes they do....dont the Mormons use a kjv?
(really best part)
kjvonlyadvocate:"love you cause your my family!"
newversionadvocate:"i love you too"

anyways thats my fantasy :-P

Quote-""The copyright"" To my understanding the KJV is the only Bible not copyrighted, or was not."

It has no worldwide copyright, but its reproduction is perpetually restricted in certain parts of the United Kingdom under the Royal Prerogative.. A lot of other (older)translations are in the public domain as well like Young's literal, Darby's, American Standard, ect..

Sometimes threads are posted without forethought of their effects on others. Here is a good example.

reasons we reject the modern Bibles

Coming here today and seeing such words as this thread title feels like a piece of lead thrown right in the middle of my faith.

To be honest, I considered using KJV here on SI out of respect for all those who do not believe that God speaks through modern versions, and thus they may discount my words. I don’t want to be a stumbling block to these people. But then I realized that they don’t need my posts at all, they are well versed in Bible knowledge. It is those who come here who are needy, don’t have strong English skills, who are seeking divine insight that I need to be aware of.

I wonder if God sends some people elsewhere in cyberspace in order to protect them from such faith-damaging words as the title of this thread topic could potentially be.

Just think: What if God touched a soul through the Message. (God forbid, right?). Can you not rejoice in the work of the Spirit without feeling the need to warn with a “Be careful, that Bible has poison in it!”

Those who wish to remain in unbelief won’t “get it” regardless of what translation they use, and those who are searching will find God - even in a crumpled-up page torn out of a Bible retrieved from a latrine. (I read about this happening in China)

I confess, I was never good in English in school. I dreaded Shakespeare. And when God lead me to the Good News for Modern Man I soaked it up – yes, read the entire Bible when I was 17. I had a long way to go in my journey, but still, God was speaking to me even back then – through his Word!!!

I will continue to post verses from modern versions for the sake of others. Also, I trust that our more knowledgeable SI members here will show me where my faith might be in jeopardy because of the translations I use. I have been quite transparent, so there must surely be something that one could point out. Honestly, I am not inviting a dual – I NEED the exhortation of the Body. I am willing to be set straight.

But in the mean time, I fully stand behind our moderators warning – 100%. I care too much about those out there in this big world who may drop in here for a refreshing cup of water. I want to offer something that they can swallow.

May God help me to become considerate of others – including those whom I do not even know exist.

Diane

Hi bro John,

I think that it's o.k. to go over the translation issue again however there are a couple of fresh threads concerning translations.

I wanted to comment on this in one way. What we are dealing with is not "translations" but "paraphrase's" I have respect (at times) for translations. But little to none for these childish first grade English paraphrases. Does that mean I'm against anyone who uses it? No, just against that particular material masquerading as a authentic translation. Most of my younger life I hated the KJV and was opposed to KJV only people, (still am on some). As I grew in the faith started seeing the major errors in the NLT, NIV, CJB, ESV, and less so in the NKJV. I used all of these "bibles" and loved the NIV.

Now I'm not so dogmatic as to proclaim the KJV the divine inspired word of God. It to has its errors but it is still far more dependable and rugged.

Roadsign said,

It is those who come here who are needy, don’t have strong English skills, who are seeking divine insight that I need to be aware of.

If I may say, I hated English, never really got down, and never used the KJV. But when I got one and read a page or two, it was no prob. I often used this excuse when defending the NIV but later came to realize that I was just making it justifiable to read and "hope" to trust in a modern paraphrase. Who doesn't know what "ye" means? Or perhaps, "thou". This has no real baring on the facts concerning modern paraphrases.

Remember, I have no problem with the users of the paraphrase books, but with the paraphrase. Please don't apply what I say as being a personal attack. It is not! 8-)

Bless the Lord!!! bro Doug

Everbody has their say and that is indeed good , as i have done, and outlined in the following post.

Have i personally legislated that people can't own or carry around another copy or version of scripture. ?? ( no don't believe the post said that )

Everyman is rewarded according to their own works
( as i shall and will be too )iam accountable to God for my words - this i know well, and tremble.

Also i am "new poster" here, and not privy to what has gone on or been said before, nor what has been previously discussed at the forum.( so forgive me this wrong ). Forgive i pray you - then this very ignorance on my part ( sincerely )

Not many of you have commented on the missing texts - i brought to your attention ??

Why not - simply don't care, i was however hoping for some feedback on the Matthew 17:21 AND 1 JOHN 5:7-8 issues ( in particular )

People freely attack the ( Kjv ) edition and don't even bat a single eye-lid when they do it - i know friends as ive witnessed it with my own ears at their meetings, saying it's antiquated, not contemporary, and to hard to understand etc etc.

If they can under-mine the version a lot of people love, cherish, hold to, and trust impicitly, then it works both ways !!

Meaning if we defend it's accuracy and authenticity - then we are responding by re-action

I know it can be a sensitive issue...im not...so naieve in this - WAY - if i highlight then ommisions and errors, and a clear-case of distortions, how then is that reckoned to me as being one of - "offence" ??

Do we savour the things that be of God - or not ??

I can remember sitting in what modern churches call "pews" one morning, and the minister was doing a series on the "gifts of the holy spirit"

He was teaching on the gift of "prophecy" etc etc

When i happen to glance up at the man sitting in front of me, anyway i had my "bible" open at 1 cor 14 and so did he, it was then that i noticed
this sabotage....of no "distinction" made between tongues and unknown tongues, which is critical to our understanding of what happened in acts chapter two and acts chapter ten ( that which occured in those chapters was - "tongues" as a sign gift to the non-believers )

And unknown tongues is when what is uttered - no
man understands him ( at all ) therefore it is catagorized by Paul - as falling into this category of ["unknown"] tongues, and that person then is uttering "mysteries" in the spirit to his God.

Therefore he is speaking to God only !! ( and not to men ) and commanded by Paul to speak to God only - and not to MEN ( MEANING IT'S USE IS NOT - FOR PUBLIC USAGE ) NO ONE UNDERSTANDS HIM !!

His spirit is praying and he is uttering unintelligle words - therefore to speak in public has no place. ( as he utters - an unknown tongue )

Book of acts tongues was as a "sign-gift" {acts 2 & 10 } as they heard them magnify God - in their dialects.

So then THIS is 1st corinth 14 ( known tongues )

and the "unknown tongue" - is the tongue that no man understands, AS no interpretation follows.
( HENCE UNKNOWN TOGUE )

So it falls into the category of: "unknown tongue"

So he is admonished to speak to himself - and to [GOD only] OR HE IS EQUATED TO THAT OF BEING BARBARIAN. [A FOREIGN SPEAKER AND MIGRANT AS SUCH]

So speaking in tongues in public has no place unless accompanied by interpretation - OR UNLESS it the "sign gift tongue" to the non-believer DISPLAYED IN ACTS chapter [TWO AND TEN]

Which is permissable in public - because the heathen man fully understands what is being uttered and saidin his own known dialect ( again this then becomes tongues, because they are known tongues) and not what Paul described as the "unknown tongue".

So just another good reason why the newer bibles -are doing a in-justice in this way, and to the uncovering of precious truths.

Also the newer bibles have eliminated the terminology "holy Ghost" from most of their pages - and every thing is pronounced as being "holy spirit" instead and (no distinction)is again... made

1 John makes this distinction however: the Holy Ghost was in "heaven" bearing record to the certainty of Christ's coming into the world, whilst the [spirit] was in "earth" witnessing along with the "blood" and the "water" " - to both Christ's coming and that of his death in the earth.

1 Peter 1:12 says the "holy ghost" was sent "down" ...from heaven, upon Christ's death.

Which is the promise of the father ( the blessed comforter ) and the entire Joel chapter two prophecy and fulfilment.

So using Holy Ghost terminolgy is valid and distinctive in scripture - and so im Guessing that is the dilemna most new bibles had when they came to 1 john 5:7-8 they have not made any clear distinction, regarding the Holy Ghost in heaven [and] the spirit of God in the earth - and use the words holy spirit - to the total exclusion of the "Holy Ghost" in scripture.

Is that important though ?? well if Jesus said i will baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire, and that Holy Ghost according to 1 Peter was not [sent down], until after his acension, i would hazard a guess , that the right terminology and understanding of the Holy Ghost is rather significant !!

YOU SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH, AND THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE.

LIES BRING PEOPLE INTO NOTHING BUT CAPTIVITY AND INTO BONDAGE , AND LEAD US ASTRAY

THOSE WHO WANT TRUTH AND LOVE TRUTH - REJOICE WHEN ERROR IS BOTH OVERTHROWN AND EXPOSED, DEFEATED AND BROUGHT DOWN. !!

LIES PROSPER NO ONE, BUT TRUTH LIBERATES THE SOUL, AND SETS PEOPLE FREE ( GLORY GLORY )

S.O.F

Be blessed in your saviour
One and all - God bless !!

:-)

and so im Guessing

Thank you for admitting this. I feel that speculation is not always the most productive way to spend our thinking time. We need to hear from God’s Spirit first and foremost. Here is God’s heartbeat: “He is not willing that any should perish.” That should be our first and foremost burden.

I feel that the overall concern I shared has been ignored. At this very time I am sharing by email with an unsaved person who has been visiting SI regularly but is not a member. This person is trying to sort out a lot of things. I am sensitive to potential extra heavy loads thrown in the path (which is how I view some of this gobbily-gook.)

Why not come along-side with what God is doing and you may be surprised at what he is using to build his kingdom. Jesus annoyed the religious experts in his day because he always did the "no-no's". Nothing has changed.

I would appreciate it if you would change the “we” in the thread title to “I” as you are not speaking on behalf of all the members here.

Diane

I feel that the overall concern I shared has been ignored. At this very time I am sharing by email with an unsaved person who has been visiting SI regularly but is not a member. This person is trying to sort out a lot of things. I am sensitive to potential extra heavy loads thrown in the path (which is how I view some of this gobbily-gook.)

An important note, one to keep in the front of our minds.

I would appreciate it if you would change the “we” in the thread title to “I” as you are not speaking on behalf of all the members here.

Personally I can't understand why there is something so mystically special about the KJV. Does God not want us to have a translation of the Bible in the spoken language of our day?

I agree that many versions stray from the original text which is concerning, i especially agree that paraphrases like the Message should only ever be used as just that a 'paraphrase' and not a main Bible. But it seems that during the reformation one of the very things that these great men fought for was that we might have the Word of God available to everyman in the common tounge, so that even the plough boy could study the scriptures. It has to be said, as sad as it is, that today the average person has a vocabulary of about 5000 words which is dramatically less than it used to be. If I gave the young people I work with a copy of the KJV they wouldn't have a clue what half of the words and especially the 'old, archaic language' meant.

I agree that some balance has to be found, because many of the modern translations really do water down the hard-hitting truth of the original text. But I believe that what is needed today is the most accurate translation of the original text as possible in our spoken language of our day.

If the Word offends people and turns them away from Christ that's one thing, but surely we don't want to turn people away because they think that Christianity is archaic and a relic only from a by-gone age.

This was posted elsewhere but applicable ...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit
was provoked within him as he saw that the city was full of
idols. So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the
devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with those
who happened to be there. Some of the Epicurean and Stoic
philosophers also conversed with him. And some said, "What
does this babbler wish to say?" Others said, "He seems to be a
preacher of foreign divinities"--because he was preaching
Jesus and the resurrection. And they took hold of him and
brought him to the Areopagus, saying, "May we know what this
new teaching is that you are presenting? For you bring some
strange things to our ears. We wish to know therefore what
these things mean." Now all the Athenians and the foreigners
who lived there would spend their time in nothing except
telling or hearing something new.

So Paul, standing in the midst of the Areopagus,
said: "Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very
religious. For as I passed along and observed the objects of
your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, 'To
the unknown god.' What therefore you worship as unknown, this
I proclaim to you."
-- Acts 17:16-23 (ESV)

_______________________________________________________________

Quotation:
If those who say that we must preach the same message as
Paul and the other apostles mean that we should also exhibit
the same adaptability and sensitivity to the background
culture, then they are right... If, however, they mean that we
should expect results merely by repeating the actual phrases
found in the New Testament, then they are mistaken. They are
making, in fact, one of the basic mistakes in verbal
communication, which is to confuse words with what they
describe. The gospel is something God has done, not a series
of phrases describing it. Saying this does not undermine the
Christian's belief in the inspiration of the Bible, for the
important thing about the Bible is what it talks about, rather
than the way it does the talking. If we considered that there
was the same degree of essential inspiration in the way it
does the talking, then we would have to insist that every
Christian learn Hebrew and Greek. The mere fact that we in the
Western world read translations of the scriptures is a clear
admission that times and cultures have changed.
... Gavin Reid, The Gagging of God [1969]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Not many of you have commented on the missing texts - i brought to your attention ??

For the same reasons brother, these have been gone over, argued over, multiple times. Everything from conspiracy theories, to the devils personal handwriting attributable. If there is anything that I have found very helpful to take as a first principle of sorts, it would be this;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=10811&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]Preface to the King James Version 1611[/url]

John, Yes, we do indeed need experts - our theologians to keep the message from straying. Yet it has also been theologians (experts of the law) who have done the greatest amount of harm to the Word. (like in Bible days)

This morning I heard Ravenhill say:

The Bible suffers more from its exponents than its opponents.

I suspect that even the simplest Bible version is safer in the hands of a humble school drop-out than the most accurate version is in the hands of experts who have lost connection with the Head. These kinds come up with a lot of gobbly-gook - pages and pages of explanations that are so convoluted no one knows how they arrived at thier conclusions. So the lesser scholars just nod, "Aye, Aye, you're the experts. Whatever you say." And before anyone catches on, something has been ADDED to or something has been SUBRACTED from the the pure message (in the minds of people).

Consider Scoffield. Surely we wouldn’t blame the translation he used. Maybe it was something about his heart condition.

Lets say that a person swears by the NIV

PS I know of someone who got saved by reading only the Old Testament.

Diane

Fair call: "reasons i reject modern bibles"

Hey if this is the worse the objections get

Im doing well...ive encountered 100 fold worse
criticisms !!

My reply would have to be like Paul's in Galations
"ye have not injured me at all"

At the end of the day we are all justified or
condemned by our speech.

And to use a Ravenhill quote from the judgement
seat of Christ ( message )

Anything considered as idle talk will be judged.

If people are happy to defend bibles that ad-lib
and take out verses from the original manuscripts
at there own pleasure and at random for i.e matthew 17:21 ...then that is your business

The consenus is - ahhh who cares - is not surprising to me

Makes you wonder what is going on though

when were blahh-say, and just yawn over inspired scripture.

Makes you wonder if the next watered down version
that comes along had only half of the original texts in it - wether we would get the same -
"don't care" response.

The counterfeit bibles originally use to
respect matthew 17:21 by at leaast including it at the bottom of the page - in paranthesis ( )

But now much more daring: they don't include at
all....yes in these counterfeit impostor bibles -
it will just have this ( verse 20 & 22 ) together

But lo ~~ verse 21 is GONE ( VANISHED, REMOVED )

If things get past unwittingly - the publishers
become, even more bold and brazen, and take out
what they don't want, like, or agree with.

For further information on this for the interested parties: there is a message entitled
"what's wrong with modern bibles" in it you find that new bibles have removed over 100 texts from the original manuscipts ( from the new testament alone ).

"I know" ( won't use the words "think" or "i suppose" Even though paul used them many times at - corinth )

But i know this: if we ADD OR DIMINISH FROM
THE DIVINE SCRIPTURES....GOD LIKEWISE WILL ADD
TO THAT MAN'S PLAGUES - IN THE LAKE OF FIRE AND BRIMSTONE ( NOT MY WORDS - BUT CHRIST'S )

TAMPER WITH THE SCRIPTURES: TO YOUR OWN PERIL

Hey if this is the worse the objections get
Im doing well...ive encountered 100 fold worse
criticisms !!

At the end of the day we are all justified or condemned by our speech.

You might want to reconsider the first with the second.

[i]We piped unto you, and ye did not dance; we wailed, and ye did not mourn.[/i]

The error in your posturing is in making a lot of assumptions without taking into account that as was mentioned, a great deal of this has been covered. Including the same bitterness and pride that far too often accompanies it. Educate yourself.

[i]*Edit, changed the thread title appropriately[/i]

which way does the Wind blow?

Brother, whatever it is that has gotten into you it has put a broad smile on an already blessed face. 8-)

Prayers for you all over there John.

Hi bartle,

Sorry I haven't had a chance to reply to your statement but here goes...

Background,

Furthermore, just consider this, there's this 12 year old at risk girl, broken home, irreligious parents, abusive dad, pill popping shell of a mom...

Conclusion, This girl gets saved through the biblezine.

Praise God!!!!!

what say you then?

What say I? I would say that Jehovah used a man named Adolf Hitler to fulfill His plans for the Jews. That has opened me up to a major attack but even Jews (not born again's) view a passage in the OT as predicting Hitler's murderous campaign.

So God, "ALL POWERFUL" can use a possessed maniac and a "wimpy" revolve or becoming biblezine.

Thanks for your question and keep thinking about those biblezines.

To our God be all the glory, bro Doug

Hello again friends and brethren !!

I haven't attacked anyone personally therefore my conscience is clear - before GOD.

Did i bring theory or conspiracy to you ??

Or

Did i just present facts that outline where new versions "take out" and remove scripture !

And fail to make the right distinctions ??

I.e they make no distinction between that of "tongues" and that of "unknown tongues" ?
( 1 corinth 14:2 )

And Reduce 1 John 5:7 [from 22 words to a meagre and poultry 6 words] ??

Do i persuade men or God now ??

DO these newer versions [THEN] take out verses to suit themselves (the answer is affirmitive and a -definitive yes)

THEY have FURTHER CHANGED "COMFORTER TO COUNSELOR" IN JOHN [CHAPTERS 14 THRU TO 17]and so the word TAKES ON A DIFFERENT MEANING AND CONTEXT IS THEREFORE ALTERED.

They changed Jesus to speaking to saul on the road to Damascus from speaking in the Hebrew tongue to THAT OF THE Aramaic TONGUE. ( Aramaic ) where did they get that from ?? Aramaic an ancient eastern semitic [little known] language spoken by an estimated 100,000 people IN TOTAL.

Makes sense Jesus would speak rather in the native tongue of the Jewish people AND that OF Hebrew - and not that of some little know dialect from the east.

Now If i did bring theory, fiction, conspiracy and not plain facts and evidence of meddling and tampering, then you do well brethren, to cast out my name as evil !!

But i came bringing truth, i came bring facts and to show you plainly the distinctive differences between that which is still the most trusted and loved, and that which has tried to emulate the (kjv ) but has paled in comparison and further done a dis-servive to the public i feel when they remove words and whole sentences, at there own will and pleasure, or they relegate certain texts to paranthesis at the bottom of the page... implying doubt... as to wether it should be included, at all !! who gives them that right to decide these things is what i want to know ?

They try hard to undermine the ( kjv ) and at times insult it making statements saying it's antiquated and not current...seeking to turn people away to apparently newer and better renderings of scripture.

Some would love to get rid of the 1611 KJV period, but they can't succeed in doing this, it is way to loved and respected, so the next best thing then is to try anddissuade and discourage people from - it's use.

If it's okay to bag the Kjv and defend new bibles, then why should someone be evil spoken of, if they likewise defend the KJV for it's innerant accuracy and depedabilty ??

A few yers ago brethren i use to write posts in a forum that had both the sinner and righteous contributing articles, teaching, and posts etc

What was very interesting was how the sinner that hates God with a passion - went to great and extraordinary lengths to both denigrate and find fault with the 1611 KJV edition, spending hours doing internet searches - researching, spending copious amounts of exhaustive time, in all in a vain effort to find fault and accuse of inaccuracy ( amazing )they spent hours reading and looking for proof of wrong, even so much as accusing King james himself of being gay from one member - now why would people who have no reason or interest in spiritual matters do this ? with all their efforts to bring it the ( KJV ) into an apperant dis-reputute.? I mean what is in it for them..so to speak ? why would they bother, why should that edition be of any interest or concern to the wicked ?? [makes no sense to me]only and
except that the spirit that nows works in the children of dis-obedience as the book of ephesians....says - might be the answer, and the mitigating factor, and the motivation and drive behind it.

I don't care if people object or have differing views on this - only i beesech you brethren - that we address the issue at hand, why get personal ?? To the best of my knowledge i have not attacked or been disparaging to any member in here ( that is on the personal level )

I have been hard on the new release bibles, this i admit, but i dis-like the way they take verses out and distort them...and...this offends me, be ye angry and sin not ( the bible says ) and if im jealous about these things, it is because i hate the fact people tamper with Holy scripture.

Be blessed in the Lord
Brethren !!!
sincerely s.o.f

I hate the fact people tamper with Holy scripture

Me too!!!! Brother, you have no idea how angry I am with the perpetual abuse of God’s holy Word – vile tampering – God’s word used to enslave so many in a legalistic bondage – blinding them to the Light of Christ’s Freedom. I’ve witnessed and experienced that for too long (in the past). I now see adults who don’t even realize what has happened to them during those years of sitting under the preachers of the law – waving their well-read leather KJV’S in the air. All that holy-sounding Thee’s and Thou’s talk and prayer was only a thin veneer – covering up the blessed truth. How did so many miss the Truth that is in the Bible from cover to cover? Why do so many still fail to see the depth of God’s love for them – via the cross? Why do I still struggle with that?

I ask, is there a translation that is fail-safe in this all- important issue - which leads to true salvation and victorious living? That’s the one I would like to promote! Tell me about that one! Where’s a translation that would not be endangered by that kind of corruption, and that protects saints from being bewitched by the “different Gospel” (see Galatians)…

….but wait a minute…. the corruption is in the hearts of man, is it not? – not on the pages of any Bible – yes, even the Toddler’s Bible I got for my one-year-old granddaughter. I don’t see any hint of legalistic teachings, man-exaltation, trust in self, endorsing vengeance in there. Page after page in that little colourful book, I see that our beloved Lord is sovereign, you can trust him, he sets people free, he cares about mankind, he does amazing miracles, he died on the cross and rose again – so many truths that so easily get bi-passed – even by those that carefully comb through the very best translation: the KJV.

I confess, day after day the Lord is convicting me of one sin after another. I am far from the Christ-likeness that our Lord modelled. And it doesn’t matter what translation I am reading. I keep on seeing bare-naked truth about myself – and hearing the voice of the Spirit drawing me to beg for deeper crucifixion.

Thankfully our trust is in God – and not in man – even Bible translators. God’s Spirit did not retire 400 years ago. He is still in the business of preserving his Word to mankind. And, I’d say he’s doing a fabulous job. Imagine what we’d have now if we were left to ourselves. The Bible would become more and more like other religious holy books: the word of man – void of hope.

Diane

Hi sister,

you said,

I am far from the Christ-likeness that our Lord modelled. And it doesn’t matter what translation I am reading. I keep on seeing bare-naked truth about myself

Let me ask a pivotal question. How can you see clearly all the truth of the Bible if some have been removed?

YOU CAN'T!!!

It is a fact that the passages, and there are many, that have been "removed" are doctrinal and support the deity of the Messiah of whom you and I want to know more about.

See what I'm saying?

The vary fact that these "New PARAPHRASE/translations" have removed such scriptures that glorify the King is enough to reject them. They are blaspheming God by stealing HIS honor and glory away from Him. But He will not allow this to happen. This is why I believe the KJV is still around. It gives God the glory that He has given to Himself. This is revelation to mankind. A prophecy if you will. Does anyone here who is part of the brethren feel it is ok to remove prophecies, doctrines, Gods glory and honor revealed to humans, instructions, and exhortations? I pray not!

But when we get down to the bottom of all this we find that pride has crept in and given us authority (false authority) to tamper with the divine. I challenge you brethren, to seek Gods will. Ask Him if He minds "us nothings" to remove or remodel His Word that came out of His own mouth.

Cults and heretical movements are famous for this vary thing. I guess the modern translators had a "new light" shown unto them that the older ones missed, oops!

Let us examine our hearts and plead for wisdom from above.

Lest I forget,

He is still in the business of preserving his Word to mankind. And, I’d say he’s doing a fabulous job.

You know who else is doing a fabulous job? Satan.

1. True God has preserved His Word.

2. True Satan has always twisted and diminished it is some way.

Let us not forget that satan is alive and well. He is not "bound" but loosed. He is still up to his same tricks and getting ready to unleash the worst of them all. We don't live in the millennial kingdom yet so satan is actively trying to pollute Gods Word, (if he could). We have an enemy, let us understand and pull down his strong holds.

In Christ, bro Doug

Brothers and Sisters here on Sermonindex, I appeal to you in the name of Jesus Christ that you please read and take to heart the 14th chapter of Romans. I know that Paul is specifically speaking of 'meat' and 'drink', but also see that you can easily place 'translations of the Bible' into this category as well. Please pray about and ask God if you are doing what Paul speaks against in these verses:

Romans 14 (KJV)

1Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

9For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

13Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

14I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

15But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

16Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

17For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

18For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

19Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

20For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

21It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

22Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

23And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

how can you see clearly all the truth of the Bible if some have been removed?

YOU CAN'T!!!

Thank you in advance.

Diane

Must we continue? It is draining to see this exact discussion take place every two weeks on this website under a new thread by different name. It's the same old junk over and over and over and over and over ad-infinitum ad-nauseum. Speculation upon speculation. Defenses of translations built upon literally nothing. Son of Thunder, please do not make this out to be a personal attack. I say this for love of you and the rest of the brethren; I am merely using your words to make a point and your quote was readily available in this thread.

If people are happy to defend bibles that ad-lib and take out verses from the original manuscripts

Please do not insult our intellect or your own with such a statement. Unless you have the original manuscripts, you can't make such a claim. This is 100% circular reasoning that modern versions "delete" verses. You can no more prove that modern versions delete verses than someone else can prove that the KJV adds verses. Yet seemingly every proponent of whatever version makes these kinds of claims.

If someone on this site wishes to explore this issue, you can find literally hundreds of pages of discussion on this site alone using the "search" feature. Phililogos has posted plentify of edifying material. Krispy, crsschk, and a few others have also had some nice, intellectual, calm, edifying contributions.

I just beg you, brothers and sisters, to stop with the mudslinging and baseless speculation and start discussing some fresh topics that edify the worldwide body of Christ.

For Him,
denver

Must we continue? It is draining to see this exact discussion take place every two weeks on this website under a new thread by different name. It's the same old junk over and over and over and over and over ad-infinitum ad-nauseum.

Yes, brother. I am with you on this.

If we spent as much time [i]living[/i] the Textus Receptus and Alexandrian manuscripts as we do defending and disecting them, we'd all be experiencing personal revival in our walks. The enemy loves when we debate Bible translations, and has a field day when a man studies the Greek manuscripts not to foundation his soul and be transformed by them, but to rather bolster his stance on a particular version's "authority." It's all so disheartening, and, like you've noticed, it occurs in these forums often.

Not meant to be harsh; I'm just stating what I feel to be the truth in this matter.

Bro. Paul

If we spent as much time living the Textus Receptus and Alexandrian manuscripts as we do defending and disecting them, we'd all be experiencing personal revival in our walks.

Hi sister Diane,

These are a few of the verses that I had mentioned before. I hope to get the rest vary soon.

The doctrine of Christ's mission- Matthew 18:11 " For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."

Hell- Mark 9:44 "Where the worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

One of the "Woes" given to the Pharisees by Messiah- Matthew 23:14 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive greater damnation."

I could preach a whole sermon on that one verse alone.

This verse is the only verse that tells us that some demons only come out with prayer and fasting- "Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting." Matthew 17:21.

You know sister, when I was still using the NIV I thought that I would just write these down in the back of my Bible. But then it hit me, why should Gods Word be slipped into the back and just looked at occasionally? Why should I have to stop reading the text and look down at the foot notes to view the next passage of Gods Word. I tried for a while but you just end up forgetting its there and skipping them. That is why I switched to the KJV. All the verses are still where they should be, in the rest of the text.

In Christ Jesus, bro Doug

we have discussed the versions so many times!! It is unbelievable!!

Hi bartle,

THATS where the devil lives, its garbage, gossip and worship of the flesh

May I remind you of somewhere else the devil dwells? I'm sure you have read Matthew 4: 1-11 and specifically verses 3 and 6. Or lets go back to the garden and see what that serpent told Eve. You see our adversary is much stronger and insidious than perhaps we give him credit. He has a long history of twisting Gods Words and if I may say, (selling, repeating) them back to us humans in a twisted way. Satan has done this with Jehovah's audible voice, and he can do the same with a printing press and paper.

I would like to clear one thing up before I continue. All the modern translations have "some" truth in them. I say some because they ditch truth as well. Islam has some truth to it too. They claim that Jesus was a prophet. That is Biblically correct but it doesn't make them brothers and sisters in Christ. For they remove and add old and new things in their twisted satanic religious system. May God save them!

If modern bibles continue on the same road their on, they will have accomplished the same things that the Moslems have. (TWISTED TRUTHS/NO TRUTHS)

There is far more behind this than I feel we understand.

Were do I stand? I reject half truth and accept full truth. Does that make me KJV only? No, there are other older translations that I wish I could afford. It seems that the older Bibles are harder to find. Shame...

I appeal to all the brethren to take heed to this warning...

"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written is this book" (Rev 22:19).

God be with you bartle, bro Doug

bro Doug

I appeal to all the brethren to take heed to this warning...
"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written is this book" (Rev 22:19).

you have quoted this scripture out of context. this is not to say that there will be no condemnation for those who twist scripture. however that scripture speaks specifically to the words written in the book of the revelation. consider this bro, at the time God gave John the revelation, the whole bible as we know it hadn't been compiled yet for that word which Christ spoke to John to be applied as you have applied it here.i know you quoted that from the KJV but if you'd paused and listened to what Holy SPirit had to say about that verse you would see that it is referring specifically to the Revelation. there is a blessing invoked at the beginning of the book to those who study it carefully. the only way (it seems to me) to get the blessing is to see what God has to say about it all because anything else is adding to or taking away. we should apply this same principle to the whole canon. Again this is not to say that there is no condemnation or consequence for those who do twist scripture.

you should also heed same warning as we all should.

this is one of many discussions on this topic which has come up and it seems to me that anyone who is pro KJV only and will not use any modern versions and one who will use modern versions vs the KJV will go round and round and not agree so why bother. the bottom line is this, it is of no consequence if you had the very same letters which Paul wrote or anyone else wrote if we don't have Holy Spirit to minister to us. what about that aspect of it brethren? is our God so small that He can't overcome those things which can't be translated completely from one language to the next because there are no equivelent words? is our God so small that the text that we must use is specifically derived from the R.T.?if this is so then we are not worshipping God as He is but an idol of our own making.

brethren untill i got into my first discussion about all this alexandrian T.R. text things, i had no clue that there were different families of texts. some of y'all may know greek, i don't nor do i feel led of God to learn it either. it seems to me God is not hindered by this at all. people have been saved by the KJV, RSV and the AOV (any other version) the key here is God's HOly Spirit who Himself will lead us into all truth. Brethren are we so hung up on the text familiy that we have forgotten this part? i mean without Holy Spirit what good does it do us?

my testimony about all this text stuff is this. i started out using a good news version and God ministered mightily to me through it. a friend of mine in 2001 got me an NIV study bible (bartle you have one) for a birthday gift and i have been ministered to greatly through it also. recently our Lord has had me read the KJV (specifically for scripture references when He has me post here so as not to stumble others)i've been ministered to mightily through the KJV too. honestly the bottom line is Holy Spirit inspired the writing of the bible so without Him none of it makes sense to anyone. i can say that some of the issues and concerns raised by some of you about certain things being diminished or added don't concern me because even though the translations read differently, God's HOly Spirit gets the message across with no problem (at least with me anyway) i think the KJV english is archaic, noone talks like that any more but by His grace i can understand it now. i still use all 3 and when i read each one i see no difference because by God's HOly SPirit i see beyond the text and into the truth of what God is trying to convey. We will be known by our fruits the word says, not which version we use. Paulwest said this and it is such a powerful nugget of truth...

If we spent as much time living the Textus Receptus and Alexandrian manuscripts as we do defending and disecting them, we'd all be experiencing personal revival in our walks. The enemy loves when we debate Bible translations, and has a field day when a man studies the Greek manuscripts not to foundation his soul and be transformed by them, but to rather bolster his stance on a particular version's "authority." It's all so disheartening, and, like you've noticed, it occurs in these forums often.

only sis diane jumped in and acknowledged it for the truth it was...that's a prophetic word right there bro Paul. granted not everyone has gotten to read it yet but really that's a crucial thing. we can't just run our mouths, we have to walk the walk.

to me these are the issues

1) God's HOly Spirit somehow has gotten lost in the shuffle which is bad because He is the one who should be walking us through the word...i've seen much mention of the text and text famility in this discussion, not much of HOly Spirit illuminating the texts though :-?

2)whether we use a version from the alexandrian text or TR or Textus anythingus are we living as we ought to before God? that's what we'll have to answer for.

are we living these texts or goofing off?

Hi Ironman,

you have quoted this scripture out of context.

True I did. As did that guy who wrote Romans 14 and tried to apply it to this discussion. Perhaps our view points are different but I see all the Word as one just as God is one. So therefore I used this in that context.

May I ask you a question? Are you comfortable with half truths? This is for all the viewers not just you Ironman.

As for the NIV, it is based on three "different" texts that were compiled together to form one. Between the three there are over 50,000 errors. Not to great of a foundation.

We put our trust and faith into the Bible we read and I for one can't sit there and know in my heart that the bible I'm reading is not foundational. It has missing verses, other verses have been mixed around so as to convey a new meaning.

And for you brethren that say you can't understand the KJV, I understand to a point you situation and recommend a translation that is still not flawed. Check out the "Evidence Bible". To my knowledge it has a strong foundation and is complete.

The complete verse listing for the New Testament is as follows,

Matthew 17:21 Demons
Matthew 18:11 Christ's mission
Matthew 23:14 One of the "woes"

Mark 9:44 and 46 Hell
Mark 11:26 This is a big one, forgiveness. See context.
Mark 15:28 Deals with Christ deity

Luke 17:36 The rapture
Luke 23:17 Jewish custom

John 5:4 A miracle

Acts 8:37 Confession for Baptism
Acts 15:34 The ministry of Silas
Acts 24:7 Persecution
Acts 28:9 Miracles

Romans 16:24 Final greetings

Peace be with you, bro Doug

bro Doug

True I did. As did that guy who wrote Romans 14 and tried to apply it to this discussion. Perhaps our view points are different but I see all the Word as one just as God is one. So therefore I used this in that context.

but what part of if anyone adds to this book or takes from this book he will have added to him whatever punishment he's going to get or have removed a measure of his reward accordingly don't we get? have you not added to the meaning of that verse something which was not intended?

May I ask you a question? Are you comfortable with half truths? This is for all the viewers not just you Ironman.

bro i am so glad you brought this up for discussion!!! no i am not comfortable with half truths which is why i seek God's Holy Spirit to minister to me according to the Father's will when i search the word because He does indeed lead us into ALL truth.

As for the NIV, it is based on three "different" texts that were compiled together to form one. Between the three there are over 50,000 errors. Not to great of a foundation.

50000 errors based on the testimony of who?those who wrote what God had them write or based on a comparo with the T.R. assuming the T.R. is the real deal?what about the errors in the T.R. then? does anyone know how many of those there are? whatever errors there may be, God's Holy Spirit fills in whatever is left out and shaves off whatever was added in whether it was intentional or not. the preservation of the word of God dear brethren is not in the text as much as it is God's being the same yesterday,today and for always! i'm from zimbabwe africa and i'm not sure where the shona bible (i'm shona) is translated from in terms of text family but nontheless there are some words which simply can't be accurately translated into the shona. nonetheless God is not hindered by such.

We put our trust and faith into the Bible we read and I for one can't sit there and know in my heart that the bible I'm reading is not foundational. It has missing verses, other verses have been mixed around so as to convey a new meaning.

should our Faith not be in God first? without Faith in God who inspired men to write, how can we have Faith in His word? for me when i read the different translations like i said, Holy Spirit trims off whatever has been added on in commentaries and such and adds in whatever has been left unsaid/untranslated so to me it makes no difference really. there was a discussion elsewhere about something else where this issue came up. it was said that one translation diminished the diety of Christ while the other didn't. i don't remember which version was which but i read them both and i saw no difference because HOly Spirit has made it plain to me Christ is God so no matter how that is expressed, that truth is concrete for me and i don't stumble.

the point i feel led to make here is this, if we yield to Holy Spirit and let Him teach us, we won't be piddling about debating this issue while souls go to hell and while we're not really living as we ought and we will see the Truth God is trying to convey IN SPITE OF whatever textual deficiencies there may be and not only that but we will live more like we ought and souls will be saved as men see the fruit of the Spirit in us.

well then again we may miss the point altogether or jump through every hoop imaginable to get anything but the point :cry:

Many thanks, Bro Doug for the clear and concise list of missing verses in the NIV. I checked over each of them in my Bible, and found most footnoted with a comment: The more reliable source omit this. But even if they hadn’t been footnoted, I am confident beyond a shadow of doubt that no particular point of our faith has been excised from the Word. All the bases are covered - amply, so to say.

What a relief! I am confident that no one has been tampering with the Word with evil intent, or even sloppy procedures.

Nothing is missing in my Bible! Halleluiah! I am all the more rejoicing in my Lord – that he is still zealously guarding his word to mankind. Oh, how he loves us so!!!

Doug, I hope that you can feel a relief too, and rejoice that these Bibles are sold in Coscos, or wherever, and that people are still buying them like hotcakes.

Diane

Like i said, i never said you can't have, own, or read from another one of those "versions"...that is your call, no one can legislate !!

I recognize this, but should we choose to defend what we believe in, or hold to, and love...then conversely that is no excuse on anyone else's part to attack and defame ( and that on the personal level )

We are all members of each other and are Christ's body, failure to discern Christ's body then, can have implications and repurcussions.

Subtle barbs, slurs, innuendo ?? how is that justified or warranted...i include myself should i be guilty of such an thing. Now brethren if we discuss translation and that which i brought to the table, and with-out resorting or reducing it to the personal level ( then i have no objections to that of an opposing view ) Now that is surely a fair and reasonable call !

My conscience is very clear and clean, and why...because i haven't pointed the finger,NOR abused or insulted anyone in here, or whilst this thread has - BEEN IN CONTINUANCE.

Name-calling may make the person feel better about self, ( but that is all - it does )

It makes you feel better about SELF, BUT THIS IS A sign of (insecurity) that is if you FEEL THE NEED - to put ....A BROTHER DOWN - AND set him at ought.

I full well realize that those verses ( REV 22 ) of adding and removing - pertain primarily to that of thAT ONE BOOK, however 2nd Peter does warn if we wrest the scriptures, we do so to our destruction. ( Peter words not mine )

So if modern publishers decide to take out words and remove verses i.e matthew 17:21 then does not that equal and constitute - the wresting of SCRIPTURE ?.

Jesus is the word made flesh, all language and communication, and words,... originated by and from the heart of God....and not from MAN.

MAN CHANGES, but God's counsel remains immutable and unchangable ( we are the ones that change words )Their never happy though, always some excuse for a newer release version, being dis-contented and unhappy.

What came first then ? Jesus the word or this ~~ dictionaries ?, encyclopedia brittanicas ?, greek septuagints , latin, Aramaic - or even the english language ? ALL words proceed from God friend, and he watches over his word to perform it, heaven and earth will pass away, before one jot or one tittle - will fall to the ground (being empty or not fulfilled ) He watches over his word with a greater jealousy than me, the apostles, the prophegts before us, and to meddle is a Huge risk of monumental proportion

Better if i s.o.f were never born than for him to wrest scripture or to invent to himself a watered down or compromising alternative.

But that is my conscience, my fear of God, and conviction - no way ho say,do i touch the holy scriptures or interfere with them !

Besides on this and touching further the spirit itself bears witness to our spirits what is true, and distinguishes between truth and the spirit of error, And we have no need annyman teach us, but the anointing with-in teaches us all...things

Meaning what we read will bear witness to our spirits, that we have and hold the truth,and wether translation has and is been - giving accurate and true representation, to original tongues and manuscript.

The Holy Ghost who is the spirit of truth, will guide you ( me ) into truth....not error, but truth.

And He cannot lie, nor oppose himself, and if he lives in us, he will give you a witness, and a "ckeck" in your spirit.

I personally do not therefore get a good witness to those editions of scripture - that add own opinion to meaning, that take out verses at will, that add own words, that fail to make significant distinctions as the O.P has thus far pointed out.

Noteworthy is this ~ the word "wrest" from 2nd Peter chapter three ....means: distort into accordance with one's interest 0r Views, to altar somethings meaning or to change by twisting.

It is manifestly evident what Jesus thinks of those who subtract or add to - in relation to his word hence the warning in revelation chap 22.

But alas some man would say ahh this refers only to the one book "revelation" ( ohh )

Think again ( Duet 4:2 ) says Moses commanded not a single lick, scrap or shred- nay not "one word" be ....diminished or added... ( when admonishing God's people )
thereto !

And Repeated in Duet12:32

Proverbs 30:5-6 Every word of God is PURE:

V6 " ADD THOU NOT ~~ UNTO HIS WORDS, LEST HE REPROVE THEE, AND YOU BE FOUND A LIAR.

Still many say ohh but it is in italics or paranthesis - so all is cosher, no one is tampering with nothing ....still if it cast very much doubt upon the reader as to, wether it truly belongs, lending dispersions, and bringing dark billowing clouds of uncertainty....then how is that a good thing to be doing ?

For instance brethren take your revised versions

You open them up to matthew 17:21

This is what you will see ~~ verses( 20 & 22 )locked together like so ( but no verse 21 )

Is it then in italics at the bottom of your page ?well it use to be - however some new revisions have omitted and deleted it, ALTOGETHER

WHY DO THAT ~~ WHY ???

Is it because they know "themselves" it belongeth not in the cannon of books ??

If they think then - to take it upon themselves to delete it totally as they now do, is it seen as an error in printing ( from them ) - or do it they ~~~ because - they now believe matthew 17:21 should ....[GO]and doesn't fit ??

Well there was no error from the king James translators at all, because we find in Mark's's gospel the same verse ( repeated ) Mark 9:24

God often does this bearing witness- by repetition

This often catches the thie out,f who comes to take and SNATCH, AND the hirelings who care not for the sheep ( often they trip up themselves )

GET CAUGHT OUT - BIG TIME ..MMMMM UH HUH

As ALSO with the two accounts of John baptist asking for confirmation again, as to wether Jesus was Christ ( when in prison ) from matthew 11

But over in Luke's account we understand why John doubted and wavered, over Christ.( and more information, is THEN ... furnished to the reader )

Jesus told the pharisee and scribe they kept erring, due to not knowing the following things
A) the scriptures
and
B) the power of God
:-o