I was chatting to some Christian mates the other day, and they thought that if you commit suicide, then you would go to hell. I had a feeling that this is just what Catholics said, but I was interested to know what you guys thought?
P.S. sorry about the depressing subject, but it would be cool if I could clear it up in my head!
No doubt that God does not intend for us to take our own lives, and therefore I believe that suicide is a sin.
Does a believer go to hell if they commit suicide? Not if they are truly saved. We all are sinners, and none of us is perfect. We all sin. If I commit a sin this afternoon, would you come to me and tell me I am no longer saved because I sinned? No. This would mean we lose our salvation everytime we commit a sin. Why would we think that a believer who commits suicide would lose their salvation?
Also, we must consider that someone who is in a desperate enough of a situation where they commit suicide probably does not have a relationship with the Lord anyway. To be in a relationship with the Lord means that we trust Him, and we understand that He loves us. No matter how bad the situation gets, we know He is always with us and will never forsake. I think someone who commits suicide has never fully accepted God's grace and mercy, and therefore I would tend to think that the person was not saved to begin with.
Saying a quick 30 second prayer does not make a saved.
Just my humble opinion.
Krispy
but i was interested to know
Pardon me if i sound a bit tired, i had a long night. I've been away for a while and it's good to be back.
If i may and you don't mind, in my opionion yes you would go to hell, why because your life is not your own. There are some scripture in the bible that says:
1) When you were in your mothers womb he knew you
2) He knows the number of hairs on your head
3) God knows you by name
Again, padon my tireness at the moment. It sounds to me like there was and is a plan for this christian's life and by committing suicide you would go to hell.
So if we commit certain sins we can lose our salvation? God's grace isnt big enough?
Ultimately I dont think anyone can really answer this... just offer up opinions. I say we leave the judgement to God.
Krispy
Krispy Kritter,
The question was committing suicide, not committing certain sins. Not all sins lead to death, however there is a sin that leads to death, and if it wasn't for the resurrection of Jesus Christ and his power, we would be dead.
I still maintain that suicide is NOT the unforgivable sin that scripture referred to. The unforgivable sin is rejecting Jesus Christ. Once we are saved our sins are covered by the blood.
You believe if one commits suicide that lose their salvation. I maintain [b]#1[b]#2
Therefore, no sin can cause us to lose our salvation. Someone who is suicidal is not walking with God (I will exempt those with mental illness, bi-polar, etc...). God has promised us peace. Not inner turmoil. If we experience inner turmoil to the point of taking our own lives, then we can not possibly be leaning on God and trusting in Him with our whole heart.
Krispy
Krispy
I had a cousin who committed suicide last year. I spent a lot of time in prayer as he lay in a coma and pleaded for mercy. In my spirit I had no peace concerning his soul but I do know that God is just.
The scripture that is troubling regarding someone who commits suicide is Revelations 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and [b]murderers
I believe suicide is murder. I'm reminded of what Paris Reidhead said in the Revival Hymn "Will not the judge of the earth do right?" Yes, I believe He will.
I was at the prayer group and someone jumped of a bridge right infront of the train and my friend was in the train.
I have been at points when I feel like that?
In the book by John Bunyan Visions of Heaven and Hell. The start of the book starts with the character wanting to commit suicide and he says do not deface the image of god!! Which is an interesting way to look at it!!
Hello folks! This is a sensitve subject. That aside, the Bible states time after time that your body is the "Temple of the Holy Ghost." I think a great scripture illustrating suicide is this:1 Corinthians 3:17: "If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are." I myself believe that this explains the subject.
logan-trky,
Totally agree with your post regarding 1Cor3-17. Young's Literal translation says "if anyone the sanctuary of God doth waste, him shall God waste, for the sanctuary of God is holy, the which you are." I think like Krispy said no one can answer this, no one but God that is and I think that this verse is very clear. I have been the first responder(policeman) to a suicide and I can tell you from experience the atmosphere in that room was the most oppressive I have ever encountered.
Regarding the loss of ones salvation, no one ever asks if a person can FORFEIT God's salvation.
Wyatt
Has anyone ever seen the movie, Luthor? There is a bit in there that I find rather interesting.
"Some say that according to God's justice, this boy is damned because he took his life. I say he was overcome by the devil! Is this child any more to blame for the despair that overtook him than an innocent man who is murdered by a robber in the woods?"
Wyatt, please don't mistake spiritual opression with wrongdoing or damnation...
In the physical being, there are a great many things that can have direct bearing on a great many other things - not the least of which is improper diet affects mentality/mood. I think I have to be so bold as to suggest that spiritual activity can have similar bearing in less prominant and just as easily overlooked ways. Nobody looks at the corpse of a young man and asks, "I wonder if he's been eating right?"
For the context of 1 Cor 3... it seems to be a proactive thing, no? If I'm not mistaking myself, its more along the lines of proper judgement, something that we are not entitled to. As such, I think I also have to agree with Krispy's statement. No man may know. Have a good guess, but in all honesty, that's all it is.
As such, according to that same passage in Corinthians, does that mean King David is damned? I mean, if we take it literally, David actively sent a God-fearing man to his death, sending the order with him. As such, he destroyed that same canister that we posess. I don't think something like the civil war can be rectified by this verse, either. No, if murder can be forgiven, and mercy is a soverign right of our God, then He shall be the judge of this, and no man.
When I was 17 I was distraught and attempted to take my own life. I was not a Christian then but as I raised the tablets to my mouth an amazing peaceful presence filled the bathroom.
I then heard the audible voice of God speak to me, which was like thunder.
The love which I experienced in that voice was so deep that I could never have imagined it at all. He was commanding me not to take my own life.
I also felt that I had angered Him.
He revealed to me that the reason for my depression was because I was sinful. I was completely devastated by this as I had previously blamed others for my terrible life.....
From what I can understand we are going to be judged in righteousness by the man that God has ordained. That man Jesus Christ while he was on the earth said that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and pharisees you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.
This is why we are supposed to live a life of repentance until the day we die. And truly turning away from our sins will also remove depression from our lives. (I have experienced this also.)
This really is a sensitive matter and I have been thinking about it for qiute some time yet.
The brother of our church´s secretary (she says he was saved) hung himself. Our Pastor said that Jesus died for our sins past, present and future. So in his words he believes that this guy still went to heaven. But I´m thinking: what about 1. John 1:9:
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness".
We all know we have to confess our sins to be forgiven of them. But can we confess something before we do it, then commit suicide and still go to heaven??
I don´t know. I really don´t know what´s right or wrong here.
A confused
Bea
1 Peter 3v15 tells us ...always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear.
Exodus 20v13 says you shall not murder.
How is it that Christians treat suicide, which is murder, as a grey area? It isn't.
If taking someone else's life is murder, as is abortion, assisted suicide etc, then how is suicide not punishable with an eternity in hell?
Genesis 9v5 says, 'Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning...
Verse 6 says, 'Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed. For in the image of God He made man.
What kind of idea do we give people when we tell them we don't know if God will punish for all eternity someone who commits suicide?
We are telling them it's okay, or it doesn't matter. That's wrong.
God covers all areas in His word.
We might not always be able to see it, but it is there.
Let us accept what the word of God says, and not pander to our own 'opinions', as if they matter.
God bless.
enid,
It is not a grey area. It is wrong. Plain and simple.
But we see a different side of God. That is called mercy. It is his right. If any man shall sin, then his pennance is death. So be it. Yet, Paul tells us that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." So be it. Are you incapacitated from God? Are you, yourself not capable of reaching heavan? Is breaking any of those standing 10 commandments a sin that is not overcomable? Have you ever talked back to your parents?
Here in Isaiah, we see (again) the idea of a more permanent divine forgiveness.
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Another relationary statement:
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
As such, which of us is fit to say which sin shall be deemed unforgivable by God? And where in God's book are we given that right over man? In Leviticus it talks of judging actions and putting men out (killing them) for false teachings, and we are warned of it in quite a few places. But I don't see one place where I am given the task of judging another's soul, speculatively or literally.
Moses was a murderer.(Ex 2:12)
David was a murderer and adulterer.
Jacob had quite a few wives. Several of his sons (whom gave their names to the tribes of Israel) were murderers.
Saul (Paul) was a murderer.
What of the men that stoned Stephen? (Acts 6:5-7:60)
What of these men? Is there no grace for them? Is it our right to say such things? Are they condemned? If a man who takes a life unjustly, his or anothers, cannot enter the gates of heaven, then a man who stood on the mount with Christ (Mat. 17) should not have been there.
It is not man's place to judge. That was the topic of this thread, and the answer is a plain one, supported by more than one place in scripture and suggested in a great many more. We are not here based on the rightness and wrongness of the situation, but an uncertain outcome. That outcome is not known to us, and is specifically reserved for Christ.
Good Afternoon Brothers,
Let's call him Mr. Suicide.
Krispy....what would you say to a person who says with his mouth..."I am a Christian BUT, I in no way ever intend from this day forward to ever say anything, or do anything ABOUT GOD OR FOR GOD."
I would tell this person...my dear friend, you are then deceiving yourself that you are a Christian. Because a Christian is one who as a result of his gratefulness for being redeemed with God, the pure form of fruit of this grateful heart is that he devotes his life as a slave to Christ, not as a slave to himself.
I would just like to say that assuming Mr. Suicide was born again....by the Word of God it is no longer Mr. Suicide who lives but Christ in him, the old things have past away, the old nature. The blood coursing through Mr. Suicides veins has been drained out and blotted out and nailed to the cross. The new blood that is being transfused into Mr. Suicide is the Blood of Christ, this is what makes Mr. Suicide right before the eyes of God.
Mr. Suicides' past, present, and future sins have all been drained away and no longer exists, its a finished work by the Blood of Christ.
Now, saying all this.....if this person is living and walking on this earth with the Blood of Christ and has suffered the death, burial and resurrection along with Christ...the feeling to end ones OWN life is a fruit of a life that is obsessed with ITSELF.
SUICIDE IS THE MOST SELFISH ACT ONE CAN MAKE.
It isn't the unforgivable sin...but once its done there is no repentance, confession, or remorse for the view of the act of suicide through the eyes of God. It's too late.
I'm just saying that I believe that someone who is really dead to self and born again by the life giving blood of Christ would never commit suicide because it would be impossible for a man that has offered himself as a LIVING SACRIFICE to be so selfish to end his life and IN NO SMALL WAY tell God, "I do not give you permission to use my existence for the purpose of spreading the Gospel message for the sake of Christ's sacrifice!! The Cross just doesn't mean that much to me!!"
God Bless,
Desi, Jr.
One thing I think we all should consider is that when we accept Christ, He comes into our hearts. Christ is referred to as the "Prince of Peace" So, I would think that a Christian should be at peace in our lives and daily walk with the Lord. If you take your life, I would definately think you are not at peace. I personally think that suicide is a type of demonic oppression for Christians and quite possibly demonic possesion for non-christians. What many Christians just don't understand is that Jesus has already paid for all of our sins and bondages at the Cross. My personal opinion about this matter is that if you kill yourself, even as a Christian, you will go to Hell. I don't mean that statement to be offensive at all. However, only Almighty God is the judge of our souls. I believe that the 1 Corinthians verse I quoted earlier explains it thoroughly. I believe that it is supposed to be taken literally. YOUR BODY IS THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY GHOST!
I am always weary of the argument, "A true Christian could never possibly do sin X Y Z...."
Have you here, who are born again, not committed some horendous sins even after your conversion? Are not all sins so despicable and hated in God's sight? What sin then is little, or of less significance in God's eyes?
As a Christian, I have screwed up big time. I have experienced serious opression that I myself have walked into. I don't underestimate the evilness that can exist in the remaining unregenerate areas of a believer's heart, nor do I believe that God's hand is too short to forgive the worst of these manifestations.
I don't know if anyone has noticed, but you can't repent of suicide. And if it needs to be repented of, then it is sinful, wrong, and damnation in hell awaits you.
I really don't care about other peoples 'opinions'. There are worthless.
I do care very much what the word of God says. It is by His word we are judged.
If you want to be self deceived and ignore what scripture says, that's your problem.
The bible is there for all to read and interpret their own way. Which is why so many false religions and cults exist.
That's my two bits.
God bless.
If a man need repent to be saved, then is it by a work of man that salvation is acquired? Does the bible support this? Or is repentance a command?
AND WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT GIVE US THIS RIGHT TO JUDGE?!?
If you can answer me that, then I'll back down.
I am a so-called Believer, and I think about suicide alot. I hate to say it, but I do. I've thought about all these points. I think suicide would be the ultimate rejection of God, therefore, hell is the only place that person could wind up.
I even feel guilty that I'm so discouraged that I would think of suicide. I feel guilty that I feel guilty. And on it goes...I'm just thankful that God has allowed me to understand that, if I truly love Him, I will submit to life, not death.
Suicide is the ultimate selfish act, and isn't salvation about surrendering our "self" to God? Isn't suicide just more of our defiance? Dian.
I'm always afraid I will commit suicide on a bad day and then, the next day I'll be saying to myself, "Gee, I wish I hadn't killed myself yesterday, cause I feel better today." Like Enid said, you can't repent of suicide.
Concerning judging:
1 Cor 5v3, 'For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged ( as though I were present) him who has done this deed.'
Paul is judging, and he is not even there!
Colossians 2v5, 'For though I am absent in the flesh, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good order and the steadfastness of your faith in Christ'.
Here, Paul is judging again, but in a good sense.
John 7v24, 'Do not judge according to appearance
but judge with righteous judgment'.
Jesus is saying the judgment that we use should be with righteousness, and not just by what we see.
There are other scriptures, but I hate long posts.
Concerning suicide:
Don't do it. Don't despair. Don't harm yourself. Don't give up on God.
1 Cor 10v31, 'Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
How does suicide glorify God?
Scripture said if in this life only we had hope we would be men most miserable.
Our hope is not in this world, but in God.
I do know of a Christian who suffered from depression and committed suicide.
I know of another who attempted suicide but failed, thank God.
All you can do is trust God and hold on to His word. It is unfailing.
Heaven and earth will pass away but God's word will never pass away.
God bless.
I know of a person that attempted suicide and wasn't sucessful. This person, who at the time wasn't saved, took a lot of drugs to die. After lying down and falling asleep, the person awoke and was very sick. This person then prayed to the Lord and ask the Lord to keep from dieing.
It is my opinion that this may happen to quite a few people who are successfull and die. Often there is a space between the act and death and there would be time to repent. As a hunter, I have seen animals shot in a vital area that run fifty to a hundred yards before they fall so there is often a short time preceeding death that one could repent.
Our God is a merciful God. It is his judgement as to who is saved or who isn't. The God who knows the thoughts and intents of the heart will judge these things and we can rest in knowing that this God of mercy, grace and justice will make the judgement on each of us and those we love.
God is good,
GaryE
AND WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT GIVE US THIS RIGHT TO JUDGE?!?
The Bible does not give us the right to judge anothers salvation, motives, inner being, etc.
However, the NT is chuck full of commands for the believer to judge actions, doctrine, false teachers, fruits... etc. I could give you a complete list of passages that support what I am saying, however I think it best if you do a study on the topic yourself.
Krispy
Yes, we are given the right to make decisions here on earth, but to quote the original post:
by richardf:
I was chatting to some Christian mates the other day, and they thought that if you commit suicide, then you would go to hell. I had a feeling that this is just what Catholics said, but I was interested to know what you guys thought?P.S. sorry about the depressing subject, but it would be cool if I could clear it up in my head!
The judgement of men's souls is not for men but for God. We are given course to judge actions, but with specific clarity. A man's soul is God's piece.
There is no contesting the error of the action of suicide, and that has never been the statement. The statement I have been pressing should quite clearly be that we have not the right to condemn this theoretical man any more than if we were to burn someone at the stake. This judgement is quite ultimately left for God, and is conjecture on our part. Several parts in scripture say we could separate him from the church or stone him, however, because his action was sinful and unjust. The right to kill is not the right to damn.
Rev. 20: 11-15
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
We can contest what is written in that last book all we want. You can contest me, and I won't quarrel any more than this - because God opens that book.
Krispy,
The question that has arisen is not so much judgment on the PERSON but judgment on the ACT.
This is what we are called to do as Christians..is to rightly divide the Word. We help others to better understand the things of God. This is called "discipling".
....what would you say to a person who says with his mouth..."I am a Christian BUT, I in no way ever intend from this day forward to ever say anything, or do anything ABOUT GOD OR FOR GOD."
I would tell this person...my dear friend, you are then deceiving yourself that you are a Christian. Because a Christian is one who as a result of his gratefulness for being redeemed with God, the pure form of fruit of this grateful heart is that he devotes his life as a slave to Christ, not as a slave to himself.
God Bless,
Desi, Jr.
I got this from www.wayofthemaster.com, which is an excerpt from the Evidence Bible...I think this is a good response to this question.
"Does someone go to hell for committing suicide?"
Those who are adamant that a person who takes his life is committing a mortal sin, and will go to hell, are basing their belief on church doctrine rather than on the Bible. Scripture is silent on the subject. There are no verses that say "He who takes his own life shall be damned." According to Scripture, only one sin does not have forgiveness, and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (see Mark 3:29 footnote). That means there is forgiveness for every other sin.
Some quote 1 Corinthians 3:17, which says that God will destroy someone who "defiles" the temple of the Holy Spirit. Yet, there is disagreement about what it means to defile the temple. Does this include suicide? Does it include illicit drug abuse (slow suicide), prescription drug abuse, cigarettes (deliberately breathing in poisons that will eventually kill), tattoos, over-eating (digging a grave with your spoon), or alcohol abuse?
God forbid that we add to the pain of someone who has lost a loved one through the tragedy of suicide, by making a judgment about their eternal destiny. God is the ultimate Judge, and we should therefore leave the issue in His hands. It would be wise to follow the biblical example and not come to any verdict in the case of suicide.
....what would you say to a person who says with his mouth..."I am a Christian BUT, I in no way ever intend from this day forward to ever say anything, or do anything ABOUT GOD OR FOR GOD."
DesiJr...
I would recommend that you comb thru the +2000 posts I have written on this forum for your answer. You're preaching to the choir, my friend.
Once you do this you understand that when you say "I would tell this person...my dear friend, you are then deceiving yourself that you are a Christian. Because a Christian is one who as a result of his gratefulness for being redeemed with God, the pure form of fruit of this grateful heart is that he devotes his life as a slave to Christ, not as a slave to himself." ... you are saying the same thing that I would say.
In fact, thats exactly what I have been saying on this very thread. Not sure how you concluded otherwise.
Krispy
To whom it may concern:
Apparently I scared some folks by talking of suicide and then disappearing for a couple of days. I went away for the weekend with my family.
As I said in my previous posts, I believe hell is the only place for someone who commits suicide, therefore, I won't be doin' that ;-) . Hell's an awful, awful place and I don't want to take a chance on going there.
I really just wanted some folks here to see how a person can struggle with it. It seems that there alot of people who can't understand how a person can get that low.
You know, there's a country song about suicide. It's called "How Do You Get That Lonely". I tell you how...by spending too much time with your big Self! Love, Dian.
boomatt said:
Those who are adamant that a person who takes his life is committing a mortal sin, and will go to hell, are basing their belief on church doctrine rather than on the Bible. Scripture is silent on the subject.
Scripture may be silent on this subject ( I guess that's a matter of opinion), but coming from someone whose had thoughts of suicide since I was 14, I can tell you that I would go to hell if I did it and that's one of the reasons I don't. Thank God! Hell is a good reason not to do something.
I know that suicide is the ultimate defiance against God. I know. And how do rebels go to heaven? The scripture is full of "addresses" on that. ;-) Love, Dian.
I first read this thread days ago I have prayed over it and at first was not going to reply but I feel lead to ask is it sin that sends us to hell did Jesus say "It is Finished" or did he say It is finished except for someone who takes there own life?Did he not take our sin and inqunitys? Does iniqunity mean sin not yet committed? Is there a difference in a person who is mentally sick and distaught or who runs into a burning buliding to save someone and dies in the process? I am not in no way promoting suicide. Jesus is love and I think unbelief is the ticket to hell just my thoughts on the matter God bless,Katdan
Katdan said:
I think unbelief is the ticket to hell
What do you think unbelief looks like in the life of a person? What I mean is, doesn't unbelief manifest outwardly in our actions? You see, for me, suicide would be the ultimate evidence of unbelief. I'm battling unbelief. If I believe what Christ said, "...be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." If I believe [i]THAT
I'm telling you honestly from my heart, being someone who has had the noose in my hands, that suicide is a ticket to hell, because salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ...And you can't have faith in Jesus Christ and bow down to a lying devil. That's like saying I love my husband, but I'm sleeping with another man. Excuse me, but you obviously love YOURSELF! Suicide is the ultimate turning of the back to God.
You say, Well, what if someone is mentally sick and distraught? Didn't Christ say, "come unto me all who labor... heavy laden...I will give you relief"? Not, get relief any way you can.
Look at my signature line. "The greatest failure of the church is to prepare God's people for suffering." We aren't supposed to be looking for ways to relieve ourselves of suffering. The Holy Spirit lifts us above our suffering if we know God. The problem is, we don't know God and the evidence is that we are having nervous breakdowns and takin' all kinds of pills and drinking all kinds of drinks, and shootin' up and snorting chemicals, and eating till we are about to bust trying to fill up our empty souls. Then, when that doesn't work, we kill ourselves because we'd rather be dead than "suffer" like this.
I'm guess I'm over the top now because I'm passionate about this!
One last word to all who give a rip:
If you want to know God.....EMBRACE SUFFERING!
katdan asked
I believe your answer is here:Did he not take our sin and inqunitys?
(KJV) Romans 3
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness [b]for the remission of sins that are [u]past
26 To declare, [I say], at this time [b]his
27 Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Also 1 John 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, [b]that ye sin not[b]if[u]Jesus Christ the righteous
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
In that Legion ran to Jesus and worshipped Him, I'm really not sure that even people with mental health problems will be able to make an excuse which is acceptable to God.
A friend of mine who'd been born again for some time before doing the psychiatric module of her general nurse training, after several weeks of offering the gospel to the old ladies she was working with, concluded that they knew why they were psychiatrically ill, and they knew that if they would or had believed in Jesus, their mental health would improve.... but, they [i]would
However, I do believe there are people who are misdiagnosed, mismanaged and by Christians given the wrong advice when they are in need of high quality mental health care, and having looked into the jaws of that black hole which invited me to jump, just once, for only a second or two, I can understand that if one's neuro-chemistry is messed up so that one is experiencing that pull regularly or continuously, the sheer emotional effort of holding back may be impossible to keep up indefinitely.
Only God really knows what is going on in a person's mind, though, and will make the final judgment according to His perfect understanding.
That's why, for me, suicide would be believing a lie. The lie being, my life isn't worth living, which contradicts what Christ said.
Yes. Suicide would be believing a lie for everyone. I would like to add to this though:
Murder is believing a lie.
Adultry is believing a lie.
Bitterness is believing a lie.
Pride is believing a lie.
In fact, every sin that one commits is commited because you, in that moment, have believed in a lie from the devil that this is better for me than God's plan.
suicide is a ticket to hell, because salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ...And you can't have faith in Jesus Christ and bow down to a lying devil.
Bow down to, no. Be decieved by, yes. If you are a Christian and you sin, it is because you have accepted a lie from the devil.
To say Biblically that suicide implies hell, you would have to show me the following:
That suicide is a lie from the devil that no true Christian could possibly accept (to go with the "they wern't saved anyway" argument). Keep in mind that Christians do often believe some pretty awful lies.
-or-
Accepting a lie about suicide is equivelant to "bowing down" to Satan, and is too great of a lie for God to forgive us for foolishly believing.
I have seen Christians in utter despair. No one is disputing the horribleness of suicide. But, scripturally, I think it is a bit presumptuous to say that a true Christian can never believe a lie that would bring them to that place, and if they did, that God could not forgive them for it.
-K_DAY
We may all have our own opinions when speaking about Suicide or Unbelief...However you will never know what it really feels like to commit suicide, unless you have been there or know of someone who tried and Thank God did not succeed.
A true Christian would never commit Suicide...However an unbeliever would.
A true Christian would never commit Suicide...However an unbeliever would.
How on earth can we claim to know which sins a true Christian can and cannot commit? Are not many Christians being oppressed and depressed and believing lies? Tell me where in the Bible you see sins listed that a Christian is, by definition, immune to. Or show me where this line is between sins that a Christian can possibly commit, and those that one can't.
I think statements like that presume to know a lot more than scripture actually tells us. Therefore may we let God make that judgement.
Ok, I concede. Maybe some Christian can commit suicide and go to heaven anyway, but not me. I'll never believe that for myself. I think if I did, I would have actually gone through with it long ago.
Dian, I think we just don't know.... It depends so much upon what a person who feels suicidal (and why they do) has ever heard about God's love, grace, healing power, forgiveness .... and much more.Ok, I concede. Maybe some Christian can commit suicide and go to heaven anyway, but not me. I'll never believe that for myself. I think if I did, I would have actually gone through with it long ago.
I realised a while after I posted yesterday, that it is uncharacteristic of me not to mention healing. For instance, when I felt I was looking into that black hole which was beckoning, I already knew enough about God and had heard about suicides - knew a 16 year old who succeeded over a broken romance - and I knew about myself, that any desire I'd ever had to 'die', was not something I could come close to physically bringing to pass.... I just didn't have the will-power.... And, by then I'd already embarked BY FAITH on a healing journey which I knew might take a long time.
I didn't see the black hole as anything other than a function of having stirred up within myself, everything that needed to be put right by God, so that I might bring it to Him with my understanding and my whole heart, and let Him genuinely fix me. It was not hard for me to turn away from the black hole, because I had made a prior decision to go through with God.
But, I was SHOCKED at how alluring it was. I was SHOCKED at how beguiling it was. I was SHOCKED that in all the discussions I'd had with people who talked of committing suicide like it was the final solution to all their problems (which of course, I refuted vehemently), I had never understood how easy it would be for a person simply to do what the feeling was telling them to.
It is an irony not lost on the enemy that this 'death' which people think they can do to themselves successfully, is much worse than the 'death' offered to us in Jesus Christ, which also leads us to being able to walk in new life if we abide in the Spirit.
Perhaps pride keeps some people from committing suicide, and pride also keeps some people from asking for the help they need to pull through with God.
Who among us, is approachable?
Who knows how to cut to the chase and bring either healing, or the appropriate challenge, to someone who is struggling with profound pessimism?
Sorry to interrupt, but I wanted to throw in my penny's worth, as simplistic as it'll be. It seems to me issues like suicide and abortion are wholly personal, between the individual and God Himself. Many people still discuss whether Judas went to heaven or hell. The answer isn't in the bible, so maybe God feels we're not capable of dealing with that question. How can we? We, collectively, are blind enough to throw His gift of life away, so how can we be wise enough to know His thoughts on life, and death?
Christians come under attack, and the devil uses our weaknesses. By taking your own life, you're saying your faith in the power of the devil is stronger than your faith in The Lord, and that's heart-breaking. But none of us have any right to say whether it's wrong or right. By adding stuff to the bible, we run the risk of adding on erroneously and going very wrong.
Ours is a faithful God - He'll take us when He's ready. But for the people that can't bear to wait that long, He's also a merciful and perfect God. He has promised to lead you to the place where He created you to be. How blessed we are to have that promise! It means we're dancing in the sunlight *all* the time. Amen, Father!
By taking your own life, you're saying your faith in the power of the devil is stronger than your faith in The Lord, and that's heart-breaking. But none of us have any right to say whether it's wrong or right.
I am sure this probably isn't what you meant - I think we can say, with absloute certainty, that according to the Bible suicide is most definitely wrong. What I do not think we can say with absolute certainty, is that suicide implies hell.
It seems to me issues like suicide and abortion are wholly personal, between the individual and God Himself.
Neither do I think abortion is a gray area in the Bible:
"For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 129:12-14
Though I do agree with you - somethings we just don't know. Why? Becuase we havn't been told. God can deal with us individually, and speak convictions into our own heart. But a lot of times we probably just presume to know more than we have been told.
One last word to all who give a rip:
I give a rip! :-)
If you want to know God.....EMBRACE SUFFERING!
I couldn't resist unfolding your exhortation just a bit more...
EMBRACE the love of God in the midst of SUFFERING! (And be embraced.)
Suffering is never sweet...but the resultant breaking of our hearts that allows the love of God to enter in is sweet.
I don't think we should ever come to a place of desiring suffering..only desiring the love of God that is willing to suffer...even actively if love calls for it. Suffering is only a temporary storm, harsh, relentless, defeating. God's love is the calm, the eye of that storm... all the thunder, rain, hail, and lightening of the storm will pass, but God's love will never pass away!
Put no trust in the virtue of suffering, because it will fail. Many write books and songs about it's healing powers, but it is the love of God that heals...though often suffering is an arresting frame to draw our attention to the greater picture of God. So soon enough, like everything else in this sorry world, the frame of suffering will fade and fall away.
Some suffering offers meaning. Some suffering offers no meaning...that is why I say do not look to suffering to find God for we still know that it's power and place is so very temporary for the children of God.
Look for love...especially in suffering.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
MC
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Dear Brothers and Sisters,
It seems to me that this would be a good place to end this thread. My heart is becoming increasingly troubled by the fact that this subject is continually on the front page - that over a 1,000 people have looked at this thread - people who's state of mind could be troubled - people who could easily misunderstand and misapply what we have stated . . .
It occurs to me that I have probably been one of those thousand who represented someone with a troubled heart. And how scary it is to speak to someone who is so close to losing all hope. I want you all to know that truly, I represent someone who [i]was
Put no trust in the virtue of suffering, because it will fail. Many write books and songs about it's healing powers, but it is the love of God that heals...
My suffering softened my heart and brought me to a breaking point where God met me in a powerful way. I'm very grateful and I wouldn't trade it for all the gold in Fort Knox! I would do it all again if that was what it took, for now I have turned a corner in my faith and I'm Pressing On!
I have said all I have to say on this subject and I'm signing off with these lyrics from a song by Kelanie Gloeckler called I'm Pressing On.
"...I did not come to camp outside and view you through a haze.
I've got to look into your eyes in the Holy Place. In the Holy Place.
And there's no going back to where I've been.
Cause you're in me and I am free from sin.
So I'm Pressing On............."
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