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The 50-YEAR CYCLE of AWAKENINGS in AMERICA - URGENT!!

A
Andrew_Strom

"50-YEAR AWAKENINGS in USA"
-by Andrew Strom.

The First Great Awakening was approx 1741-1743.

Second Great Awakening was roughly 1799 - 1807
-though some say it lasted into the late 1820's and that it linked up with Finney's revivals from the 1820's on.

I think probably Finney's were "in-between" the 2nd and 3rd Awakenings.

I totally agree with those who think that 1857-1860 should be considered the
3rd Great Awakening.

Also 1904-1910 (Wales, Azusa, India, Korea, China, etc) should be considered the 4th Gt Awakening.

And 1947-1955 should be considered the 5th.
(Healing Revival in USA, plus Revivals in Africa, Hebrides, Argentina, etc.)

We have had FIVE GREAT AWAKENINGS - at roughly 50-year intervals every time. We are due for the next one RIGHT NOW.

There is a kind of "Jubilee" cycle of Awakenings in America, going back 250 YEARS. -But this can be lost if we do not press in.

This is very important for us all to grasp.

I don't know of ANY OTHER NATION that has a 50-year
cycle of Revivals like the USA.

But it is possible to lose it (-like Wales did) and if that happens
it will be a DISASTER for this country. We must enter into Revival while this "window" is open.

We need Revival pray-ers!! We need Revival preachers!!

It is URGENT that we do not miss this 50-year window. (For it is now 50 years since the end of the last one!!)

-Andrew Strom.

S
sermonindex

I believe this is a important principle that brother Andrew is showing us. Surely one of the main reasons why there is a moral colapse in society and in the church is because of this pro-longed absense of God's Spirit in revival power.

Finney states: " At such a time a Revival of Religion is indispensable to [b]avert the judgments of God[/b] from the church." Oh how true this is! If we actually realized that the judgement of God is looming over the church?! then would we start to pray? I can tell you this that the beginning of the judgement of God on the church is the withdrawing of His immediate presence which He has already done.

This quote from FINNEY states the truth that brother Andrew is showing and the results of no revival happening:

" Nothing but a Revival of Religion can preserve such a church from annihilation. A [b]church declining[/b] in this way cannot continue to exist without a revival. If it receives new members, they will, for the most part, be made up of ungodly persons. Without revivals there will not ordinarily be as many persons converted as will die off in a year. There have been churches in this country where the members have died off, and there were no revivals to convert others in their place, till the church has run out, and the organization has been dissolved."

These quotes are from:
[b]WHEN A REVIVAL IS TO BE EXPECTED[/b]
http://www.charlesgfinney.com/1868Lect_on_Rev_of_Rel/68revlec02.htm

S
sermonindex

[b]Perseverance[/b]
[i]by E. M. Bounds[/i]

"Perseverance counts much with God as well as with man. If Elijah had ceased at his first petition, the heavens would have scarcely yielded their rain to his feeble praying. If Jacob had quit praying at decent bedtime, he would scarcely have survived the next day's meeting with Esau. If the Syrophoenician woman had allowed her faith to faint by silence, humiliation, repulse, or stop midway in its struggles--her grief-stricken home would never have been brightened by the healing of her daughter."


[b]This Is No Time For Sleep![/b]
--Selected

"What meanest thou, O sleeper? Arise, call upon thy God, if so be that God will think upon us, that we perish not!" (Jonah 1:6).

Arise, Church of the living God! Call upon your God! The sands of time are swiftly running out. Night has almost come. Judgment's clouds are heavy in the eastern sky! Yet even now the hand of God will move to save His people if they, with bitter tears of repentance, seek the Lord with all their hearts!

The pagan world sinks in darkness while the Church carries on its program. How shall we answer when the piercing eyes of Christ search the soul? When He shall ask "Why?"--when He gave all for us-- why, with this message of life in our hands, do we sleep the sleep of death!

Arise! Arise, O Church of Jesus Christ, and call upon thy God--lest the nations of the world perish for want of the message of God's redeeming grace! Arise! Arise even now! Tomorrow may be too late! It is time to seek the Lord till He come and rain righteousness upon us (Hosea 10:12).
--

Oh Let us press in with all "Perseverance" and not let go until God comes down in revival power. How many of us are willing to tarry and cry out for God to release His power on us and come near?

A
Andrew_Strom

Do you know - Wales used to be a "Land of Revivals".
But they missed ONE WINDOW of Revival and lost it all. Wales has not had a Revival now for 100 years.

Similarly - the 50 years is NOW UP for America.

Will we enter in to our Revival in time??

-Andrew Strom.

J
jewalz

Gentlemen, we know the price that is needed to be paid for this to happen. Will you call a holy convocation? Maybe it should be in the dead of winter in an open field to see who really is prepared to pay the price? Maybe sack cloth and ashes is all that is required to 'get in' at the door?:) It might be that we need a little Gideon test to weed out the riff raff and the cowards and we might just end up with a handful of men who will pay the price and in that way we might see happen what we know the Lord wants.

Julian Raven

J
jewalz

And by the way I know of such a field!

Julian Raven

S
sermonindex

no.

we need persecution, first.

then comes the revival.

for the "deceitfullness of wealth", has become the thorn bush engulfing my mother country.

empty the people's wallets, empty their bellies, and then they will realize their utter dependency on God.

I say this respectfully sir and in the love of Jesus, bartle

J
jewalz

This thread is more interesting than we think. A Canadian, a Kiwi and a Brit all burning for this great land........God is not deaf......the Holy One of Israel......does not sleep or slumber....He is not deaf!

Julian Raven

C
Christisking

This Is No Time For Sleep!
--Selected

"What meanest thou, O sleeper? Arise, call upon thy God, if so be that God will think upon us, that we perish not!" (Jonah 1:6).

Arise, Church of the living God! Call upon your God! The sands of time are swiftly running out. Night has almost come. Judgment's clouds are heavy in the eastern sky! Yet even now the hand of God will move to save His people if they, with bitter tears of repentance, seek the Lord with all their hearts!

The pagan world sinks in darkness while the Church carries on its program. How shall we answer when the piercing eyes of Christ search the soul? When He shall ask "Why?"--when He gave all for us-- why, with this message of life in our hands, do we sleep the sleep of death!

Arise! Arise, O Church of Jesus Christ, and call upon thy God--lest the nations of the world perish for want of the message of God's redeeming grace! Arise! Arise even now! Tomorrow may be too late! It is time to seek the Lord till He come and rain righteousness upon us (Hosea 10:12).
--

Oh Let us press in with all "Perseverance" and not let go until God comes down in revival power. How many of us are willing to tarry and cry out for God to release His power on us and come near?


AMEN! Let's not lay sleeping as revival passes us by!

R
RobertW

I am wondering if some of the solution might not be found in the article Greg posted today [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=13124&forum=34]Are We Playing By the Book[/url] by Vance Havner. Many in ministry are aging and are become very conservative in what they will allow into their meetings. I don't know if this is because of their vast negative experiences all coming to bear or what, but the doors are shut pretty tight in some cases.

I will say though that there is a grass roots awakening happening in our circles in the Midwest. More and more people are seeing the light when it comes to the Gospel. It is happening slowly, but I am seeing real progress.

S
sermonindex

Since I have been a believer, I have always heard of "Revival", primarily because I have, for the most part, been around Pentecostal churches. Great men of God, whom I admire and have been challenged by have always talked about that...something to come...

In all sincerity...what are we waiting for?
Isn't God more interested in simple faithfulness.
Isn't it promised that this world, including America, will wax worse and worse.

I am in no way trying to be sarcastic here, but when we pray for revival, what are we praying for?

Can someone explain to me, in a very practical way, what are we expecting to see?

Thanks,
Mahoney

S
sermonindex

Brother,

I would recommend you read and download this resource:

[b]THE OLD PATHS: Issue No. 8 - October "The Revival We Need"[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=13096&forum=16&0

I higly recommend you listen or watch this also:

[b](Revival Forum 89) Leonard Ravenhill[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=8955

[b](Revival Forum 89) Leonard Ravenhill (video)[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=10832


I just believe you will hear a more clear and urgent call in that media and magazine download. Revival is a return to the book "of acts" that is what we need.

S
sermonindex

Revival is a return to the book "of acts" that is what we need.

Again, what does that mean?

Listen, I guess I am looking for some honest conversation here. I have heard Ravenhill tapes, for years, and read his books. I agree with him. I love the man even though I never even met him.

I guess my question is, why do we need "that something that God is going to do" to cause us to pray and be faithful in obedience.


Is not the Kingdom of God..at hand!

L
lovegrace

I don't believe persecution is 'needed' to cause a revival as one brother mentioned because no where does it say in the word 'first persecution then revival'. I think pentacost happened first, THEN they were thrown in jail.

The word 'witnesses', from my understanding, really means martyrs. So 'you will receive power from on high, and then you will be my WITNESSES/MARTYRS in all the earth'.

Anywho. Let's start a revival in each of our own city. Your not 'manipulating' the hand of God, but BEING His hands and feet. God is waiting for us.

As Leonard Ravinhill said, "For instance, “God is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think.” Stop the verse there, and it means “God is able to do it, but as yet He is not bothered so to do.” This verse, misquoted, leaves the lack of revival on the steps of God’s throne. But finish the text . . . “able to do – according to the power that worketh in us,” and it means that the channel is blocked; it means God cannot get through to this age because of lack of power in the Church. So lack of revival is our fault."

It's our fault. So, saints, let's rise up to the occasion and bring the gospel to the streets, courts, and THE CHURCH!

K
kdbutton

I guess my question is, why do we need "that something that God is going to do" to cause us to pray and be faithful in obedience.

Is not the Kingdom of God..at hand!


Yes the Kingdom is at hand just as it was at Gethsemene and the disciples were asleep!

Wake us Oh Lord in every church and every town rouse your people as you did in the garden!

Wake up! Pray!

S
sermonindex

Again, what does that mean?

I just read this today I think it is utmost to be read and thought upon and hopefully will answer your question:

[b]WHEN A REVIVAL IS TO BE EXPECTED[/b]
[i]by Charles Finney[/i]

TEXT. --Wilt thou not revive us again; that thy people may rejoice in thee? --PSALM lxxxv. 6.
THIS Psalm seems to have been written soon after the return of the people of Israel from the Babylonish captivity; as you will easily see from the language at the commencement of it. The Psalmist felt that God had been very favorable to the people, and while contemplating the goodness of the Lord in bringing them back from the land where they had been carried away captive, and while looking at the prospects before them, he breaks out into a prayer for a Revival of Religion. "Wilt thou not revive us again, that thy people may rejoice in thee?" Since God in his providence had re-established the ordinances of his house among them, he prays that there may be also a revival of religion, to crown the work.

Last Friday evening I attempted to show what a Revival of Religion is not; what a Revival is; and the agencies to be employed in promoting it. The topics to which I wish to call your attention to-night, are,

I. When a Revival of Religion is needed.

II. The importance of a Revival when it is needed.

III. When a Revival of Religion may be expected.

I. WHEN IS A REVIVAL OF RELIGION NEEDED?
1. When there is a want of brotherly love and Christian confidence among professors of religion, then a revival is needed. Then there is a loud call for God to revive his work. When Christians have sunk down into a low and backslidden state, they neither have, nor ought to have, nor is there reason to have, the same love and confidence toward each other, as when they are all alive, and active, and living holy lives. The love of benevolence may be the same, but not the love of complacency. God loves all men with the love of benevolence, but he does not feel the love of complacency toward any but those who live holy. Christians do not and cannot love each other with the love of complacency, only in proportion to their holiness. If Christian love is the love of the image of Christ in his people, then it never can be exercised only where that image really or apparently exists. A person must reflect the image of Christ, and show the spirit of Christ, before other Christians can love him with the love of complacency. It is in vain to call on Christians to love one another with the love of complacency, as Christians, when they are sunk down in stupidity. They see nothing in each other to produce this love. It is next to impossible that they should feel otherwise toward each other, than they do toward sinners. Merely knowing that they belong to the church, or seeing them occasionally at the communion table, will not produce Christian love, unless they see the image of Christ.

2. When there are dissensions, and jealousies, and evil speakings among professors of religion, then there is great need of a revival. These things show that Christians have got far from God, and it is time to think earnestly of a revival. Religion cannot prosper with such things in the church, and nothing can put an end to them like a revival.

3. When there is a worldly spirit in the church. It is manifest that the church is sunk down into a low and backslidden state, when you see Christians conform to the world in dress, equipage, parties, seeking worldly amusements, reading novels, and other books such as the world read. It shows that they are far from God, and that there is great need of a Revival of Religion.

4. When the church finds its members falling into gross and scandalous sins, then it is time for the church to awake and cry to God for a Revival of Religion. When such things are taking place, as give the enemies of religion an occasion for reproach, it is time for the church to ask God, "What will become of thy great name?"

5. When there is a spirit of controversy in the church or in the land, a revival is needful. The spirit of religion is not the spirit of controversy. There can be no prosperity in religion, where the spirit of controversy prevails.

6. When the wicked triumph over the church, and revile them, it is time to seek for a Revival of Religion.

7. When sinners are careless and stupid, and sinking into hell unconcerned, it is time the church should bestir themselves. It is as much the duty of the church to awake, as it is of the firemen to awake when a fire breaks out in the night in a great city. The church ought to put out the fires of hell which are laying hold of the wicked. Sleep! Should the firemen sleep, and let the whole city burn down: what would be thought of such firemen? And yet their guilt would not compare with the guilt of Christians who sleep while sinners around them are sinking stupid into the fires of hell.

II. I AM TO SHOW THE IMPORTANCE OF A REVIVAL OF RELIGION IN SUCH CIRCUMSTANCES.
1. A Revival of Religion is the only possible thing that can wipe away the reproach which covers the church, and restore religion to the place it ought to have in the estimation of the public. Without a revival, this reproach will cover the church more and more, until it is overwhelmed with universal contempt. You may do any thing else you please, and you can change the aspects of society in some respects, but you will do no real good; you only make it worse without a Revival of Religion. You may go and build a splendid new house of worship, and line your seats with damask, put up a costly pulpit, and get a magnificent organ, and every thing of that kind, to make a show and dash, and in that way you may procure a sort of respect for religion among the wicked, but it does no good in reality. It rather does hurt. It misleads them as to the real nature of religion; and so far from converting them, it carries them farther away from salvation. Look wherever they have surrounded the altar of Christianity with splendor, and you will find that the impression produced is contrary to the true nature of religion. There must be a waking up of energy, on the part of Christians, and an outpouring of God's Spirit, or the world will laugh at the church.

2. Nothing else will restore Christian love and confidence among church members. Nothing but a Revival of Religion can restore it, and nothing else ought to restore it. There is no other way to wake up that love of Christians for one another, which is sometimes felt, when they have such love as they cannot express. You cannot have such love without confidence; and you cannot restore confidence without such evidence of piety as is seen in a revival. If a minister finds he has lost in any degree the confidence of his people, he ought to labor for a revival as the only means of regaining their confidence. I do not mean that this should be his motive in laboring for a revival, to regain the confidence of his people, but that a revival through his instrumentality, and ordinarily nothing else, will restore to him the confidence of the praying part of his people. So if an elder or private member of the church finds his brethren cold towards him, there is but one way to remedy it. It is by being revived himself, and pouring out from his eyes and from his life the splendor of the image of Christ. This spirit will catch and spread in the church, and confidence will be renewed, and brotherly love prevail again.

3. At such a time a Revival of Religion is indispensable to avert the judgments of God from the church. This would be strange preaching, if revivals are only miracles, and if the church has no more agency in producing them, than it has in making a thunder storm. To say to the church, that unless there is a revival you may expect judgments, would then be as ridiculous as to say, If you do not have a thunder storm, you may expect judgments. The fact is, that Christians are more to blame for not being revived, than sinners are for not being converted. And if they are not awakened, they may know assuredly that God will visit them with his judgments. How often God visited the Jewish church with judgments, because they would not repent and be revived at the call of his prophets! How often have we seen churches, and even whole denominations, cursed with a curse, because they would not wake up and seek the Lord, and pray, "Wilt thou not revive us again, that thy people may rejoice in thee?"

4. Nothing but a Revival of Religion can preserve such a church from annihilation. A church declining in this way cannot continue to exist without a revival. If it receives new members, they will, for the most part, be made up of ungodly persons. Without revivals there will not ordinarily be as many persons converted as will die off in a year. There have been churches in this country where the members have died off, and there were no revivals to convert others in their place, till the church has run out, and the organization has been dissolved.

A minister told me that he once labored as a missionary in Virginia, on the ground where such a man as Samuel Davies once flashed and shone like a flaming torch; and that Davies's church was so reduced as to have but one male member, and he, if I remember right, was a colored man. The church had got proud, and was all run out. I have heard of a church in Pennsylvania, that was formerly flourishing, but neglected revivals, and it became so reduced that the pastor had to send to a neighboring church for a ruling elder when he administered the communion. *(*Why not, in such a case, let any member of the church, male or female, distribute the elements? Is it indispensable to have an elder?)

5. Nothing but a Revival of Religion can prevent the means of grace from doing a great injury to the ungodly. Without a revival, they will grow harder and harder under preaching, and will experience a more horrible damnation than they would if they had never heard the Gospel. Your children and your friends will go down to a much more horrible fate in hell, in consequence of the means of grace, if there are no revivals to convert them to God. Better were it for them if there were no means of grace, no sanctuary, no Bible, no preaching, and if they had never heard the Gospel, than to live and die where there is no revival. The Gospel is the savor of death unto death, if it is not made a savor of life unto life.

6. There is no other way in which a church can be sanctified, grow in grace, and be fitted for heaven. What is growing in grace? Is it hearing sermons and getting some new notions about religion? No--no such thing. The Christian who does this, and nothing more, is getting worse and worse, more and more hardened, and every week it is more difficult to rouse him up to duty.

III. I AM TO SHOW WHEN A REVIVAL OF RELIGION MAY BE EXPECTED.
1. When the providence of God indicates that a revival is at hand. The indications of God's providence are sometimes so plain as to amount to a revelation of his will. There is a conspiring of events to open the way, a preparation of circumstances to favor a revival, so that those who are looking out can see that a revival is at hand, just as plainly as if it had been revealed from Heaven. Cases have occurred in this country, where the providential manifestations were so plain, that those who are careful observers, felt no hesitation in saying that God was coming to pour out his Spirit, and grant a revival of religion. There are various ways for God to indicate his will to a people--sometimes by giving them peculiar means, sometimes by peculiar and alarming events, sometimes by remarkably favoring the employment of means, by the weather, health, etc.

2. When the wickedness of the wicked grieves and humbles and distresses Christians. Sometimes Christians do not seem to mind any thing about the wickedness around them. Or if they talk about it, it is in a cold, and callous, and unfeeling way, as if they despaired of a reformation: they are disposed to scold at sinners--not to feel the compassion of the Son of God for them. But sometimes the conduct of the wicked drives Christians to prayer, and breaks them down, and makes them sorrowful and tender-hearted, so that they can weep day and night, and instead of scolding and reproaching them, they pray earnestly for them. Then you may expect a revival. Indeed this is a revival begun already. Sometimes the wicked will get up an opposition to religion. And when this drives Christians to their knees in prayer to God, with strong crying and tears, you may be certain there is going to be a revival. The prevalence of wickedness is no evidence at all that there is not going to be a revival. That is often God's time to work. When the enemy cometh in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord lifts up a standard against him. Often the first indication of a revival, is the devil's getting up something new in opposition. It will invariably have one of two effects. It will either drive Christians to God, or it will drive them farther away from God, to some carnal policy or other that will only make things worse. Frequently the most outrageous wickedness of the ungodly is followed by a revival. If Christians are made to feel that they have no hope but in God, and if they have sufficient feeling left to care for the honor of God and the salvation of the souls of the impenitent, there will certainly be a revival. Let hell boil over if it will, and spew out as many devils as there are stones in the pavements, if it only drives Christians to God in prayer--they cannot hinder a revival. Let Satan get up a row, and sound his horn as loud as he pleases; if Christians will only be humbled and pray, they shall soon see God's naked arm in a revival of religion. I have known instances where a revival has broken in upon the ranks of the enemy, almost as suddenly as a clap of thunder, and scattered them--taken the very ringleaders as trophies, and broken up their party in an instant.

3. A revival may be expected when Christians have a spirit of prayer for a revival. That is, when they pray as if their hearts were set upon a revival. Sometimes Christians are not engaged in prayer for a revival, not even when they are warm in prayer. Their minds are upon something else; they are praying for something else--the salvation of the heathen and the like--and not for a revival among themselves. But when they feel the want of a revival, they pray for it; they feel for their own families and neighborhoods, and pray for them as if they could not be denied. What constitutes a spirit of prayer? Is it many prayers and warm words? No. Prayer is the state of the heart. The spirit of prayer is a state of continual desire and anxiety of mind for the salvation of sinners. It is something that weighs them down. It is the same, so far as the philosophy of the mind is concerned, as when a man is anxious for some worldly interest. A Christian who has this spirit of prayer feels anxious for souls. It is the subject of his thoughts all the time, and makes him look and act as if he had a load on his mind. He thinks of it by day, and dreams of it by night. This is properly praying without ceasing. The man's prayers seem to flow from his heart liquid as water-- "O Lord, revive thy work." Sometimes this feeling is very deep; persons have been bowed down, so that they could neither stand nor sit. I can name men in this state, of firm nerves, who stand high in character, who have been absolutely crushed with grief for the state of sinners. They have had an actual travail of soul for sinners, till they were as helpless as children. The feeling is not always so great as this, but such things are much more common than is supposed. In the great revivals in 1826, they were common. This is by no means enthusiasm. It is just what Paul felt, when he says, "My little children, of whom I travail in birth." I heard of a person in this State, who prayed for sinners, and finally got into such a state of mind, that she could not live without prayer. She could not rest day nor night, unless there was somebody praying. Then she would be at ease; but if they ceased, she would shriek in agony till there was prayer again. And this continued for two days, until she prevailed in prayer, and her soul was relieved. This travail of soul, is that deep agony, which persons feel when they lay hold on God for such a blessing, and will not let him go till they receive it. I do not mean to be understood that it is essential to a spirit of prayer, that the distress should be so great as this. But this deep, continual, earnest desire for the salvation of sinners, is what constitutes the spirit of prayer for a revival. It is a revival begun so far as this spirit of prayer extends.

When this feeling exists in a church, unless the Spirit is grieved away by sin, there will infallibly be a revival of Christians generally, and it will involve the conversion of sinners to God. This anxiety and distress increases till the revival commences. A clergyman in W---n told me of a revival among his people, which commenced with a zealous and devoted woman in the church. She became anxious about sinners, and went to praying for them, and she prayed and her distress increased; and she finally came to her minister, and talked with him, and asked him to appoint an anxious meeting, for she felt that one was needed. The minister put her off, for he felt nothing of it. The next week she came again, and besought him to appoint an anxious meeting; she knew there would be somebody to come, for she felt as if God was going to pour out his Spirit. He put her off again. And finally she said to him, "If you do not appoint an anxious meeting I shall die, for there is certainly going to be a revival." The next Sabbath he appointed a meeting, and said that if there were any who wished to converse with him about the salvation of their souls, he would meet them on such an evening. He did not know of one, but when he went to the place, to his astonishment he found a large number of anxious inquirers. Now do not you think that woman knew there was going to be a revival? Call it what you please, a new revelation, or an old revelation, or any thing else. I say it was the Spirit of God that taught that praying woman there was going to be a revival. "The secret of the Lord" was with her, and she knew it. She knew God had been in her heart, and filled it so full that she could contain no longer.

Sometimes ministers have had this distress about their congregations, so that they felt as if they could not live unless they could see a revival. Sometimes elders and deacons, or private members of the church, men or women, have the spirit of prayer for a revival of religion, so that they will hold on and prevail with God, till he pours out his Spirit. The first ray of light that broke in upon the midnight which rested on the churches in Oneida county, in the fall of 1825, was from a woman in feeble health, who, I believe, had never been in a powerful revival. Her soul was exercised about sinners. She was in an agony for the land. She did not know what ailed her, but she kept praying more and more, till it seemed as if her agony would destroy her body. At length she became full of joy, and exclaimed, "God has come! God has come! There is no mistake about it, the work is begun, and is going over all the region." And sure enough, the work began, and her family were almost all converted, and the work spread all over that part of the country. Now, do you think that woman was deceived? I tell you, no. She knew she had prevailed with God in prayer. She had travailed in birth for souls, and she knew it. This was not the only instance, by many, that I knew in that region.

Generally, there are but few professors of religion that know any thing about this spirit of prayer which prevails with God. I have been amazed to see such accounts as are often published about revivals, as if the revival had come without any cause--nobody knew why or wherefore. I have sometimes inquired into such cases; when it had been given out that nobody knew any thing about it until one Sabbath they saw in the face of the congregation that God was there, or they saw it in their conference room, or prayer meeting, and were astonished at the mysterious sovereignty of God, in bringing in a revival without any apparent connection with means. Now mark me. Go and inquire among the obscure members of the church, and you will always find that somebody had been praying for a revival, and was expecting it--some man or woman had been agonizing in prayer, for the salvation of sinners, until they gained the blessing. It may have found the minister and the body of the church fast asleep, and they would wake up all of a sudden, like a man just rubbing his eyes open, and running round the room pushing things over, and wondering where all this excitement came from. But though few knew it, you may be sure there has been somebody on the watch-tower; constant in prayer till the blessing came. Generally, a revival is more or less extensive, as there are more or less persons who have the spirit of prayer. But I will not dwell on this subject any further at present, as the subject of prayer will come up again in this course of lectures.

4. Another sign that a revival may be expected, is when the attention of ministers is especially directed to this particular object, and when their preaching and other efforts are aimed particularly at the conversion of sinners. Most of the time the labors of ministers are, it would seem, directed to other objects. They seem to preach and labor with no particular design to effect the immediate conversion of sinners. And then it need not be expected that there will be a revival under their preaching. There never will be a revival till somebody makes particular efforts for this end. But when the attention of a minister is directed to the state of the families in his congregation, and his heart is full of feeling of the necessity of a revival, and when he puts forth the proper efforts for this end, then you may be prepared to expect a revival. As I explained last week, the connection between the right use of means for a revival, and a revival, is as philosophically sure as between the right use of means to raise grain, and a crop of wheat. I believe, in fact, it is more certain, and that there are fewer instances of failure. The effect is more certain to follow. The paramount importance of spiritual things makes it reasonable that it should be so. Take the Bible, the nature of the case, and the history of the church all together, and you will find fewer failures in the use of means for a revival, than in farming, or any other worldly business. In worldly business there are sometimes cases where counteracting causes annihilate all a man can do. In raising grain, for instance, there are cases which are beyond the control of man, such as drought, hard winter, worms, and so on. So in laboring to promote a revival, there may things occur to counteract it, something or other turning up to divert the public attention from religion, which may baffle every effort. But I believe there are fewer such cases in the moral than in the natural world. I have seldom seen an individual fail, when he used the means for promoting a revival in earnest, in the manner pointed out in the word of God. I believe a man may enter on the work of promoting a revival, with as reasonable an expectation of success, as he can enter on any other work with an expectation of success; with the same expectation as the farmer has of a crop when he sows his grain. I have sometimes seen this tried and succeed under circumstances the most forbidding that can be conceived.

The great revival in Rochester began under the most disadvantageous circumstances that could well be imagined. It seemed as though Satan had interposed every possible obstacle to a revival. The three churches were at variance; one had no minister, one was divided and about to dismiss their minister. An elder of the third Presbyterian church had brought a charge of unchristian conduct against the pastor of the first church, and they were just going to have a trial before the presbytery. After the work began, one of the first things was, the great stone church gave way, and created a panic. Then one of the churches went on and dismissed their minister right in the midst of it. Another church nearly broke down. Many other things occurred, so that it seemed as if the devil was determined to divert the public attention from the subject of religion. But there were a few remarkable cases of the spirit of prayer, which assured us that God was there, and we went on: and the more Satan opposed, the Spirit of the Lord lifted up the standard higher and higher, till finally a wave of salvation rolled over the place.

5. A revival of religion may be expected when Christians begin to confess their sins to one another. At other times, they confess in a general manner, as if they were only half in earnest. They may do it in eloquent language, but it does not mean any thing. But when there is an ingenuous breaking down, and a pouring out of the heart in making a confession of their sins, the flood gates will soon burst open, and salvation will flow over the place.

6. A revival may be expected whenever Christians are found willing to make the sacrifice necessary to carry it on. They must be willing to sacrifice their feelings, their business, their time, to help forward the work. Ministers must be willing to lay out their strength, and to jeopard their health and life. They must be willing to offend the impenitent by plain and faithful dealing, and perhaps offend many members of the church who will not come up to the work. They must take a decided stand with the revival, be the consequences what they may. They must be prepared to go on with the work, even though they should lose the affections of all the impenitent, and of all the cold part of the church. The minister must be prepared, if it is the will of God, to be driven away from the place. He must be determined to go straight forward, and leave the entire event with God.

I knew a minister who had a young man laboring with him in a revival. The young man preached pretty plain, and the wicked did not like him. They said, We like our minister, and we wish to have him preach. They finally said so much that the minister told the young man, "Mr. Such-a-one, that gives so much towards my support, says so and so. Mr. A. says so, and Mr. B. says so. They think it will break up the society if you continue to preach, and I think you had better not preach any more." The young man went away, but the Spirit of God immediately withdrew from the place, and the revival stopped short. The minister, by yielding to the wicked desires of the wicked, drove him away. He was afraid the devil would drive him away from his people, and by undertaking to satisfy the devil, he offended God. And God so ordered events, that in a short time he had to leave his people after all. He undertook to go between the devil and God, and God dismissed him.

The people, also, must be willing to have a revival, let the sacrifice be what it may. It will not do for them to say, "We are willing to attend so many meetings, but we cannot attend any more." Or, "We are willing to have a revival if it will not disturb our arrangements about our business, or prevent our making money." I tell you, such people will never have a revival, till they are willing to do any thing, and sacrifice any thing, that God indicates to be their duty. Christian merchants must feel willing to lock up their stores for six months, if it is necessary to carry on a revival. I do not mean to say any such thing is called for, or that it is their duty to do so. But if there should be such a state of feeling as to call for it, then it would be their duty, and they ought to be willing to do it. They ought to be willing to do it if God calls, and he can easily burn down their stores if they do not. In fact, I should not be sorry to see such a revival in New York, as would make every merchant in the city lock up his store till spring, and say he had sold goods enough, and now he would give up his whole time to lead sinners to Christ.

7. A revival may be expected when ministers and professors are willing to have God promote it by what instruments he pleases. Sometimes ministers are not willing to have a revival unless they can have the management of it, or unless their agency can be conspicuous in promoting it. They wish to prescribe to God what he shall direct and bless, and what men he shall put forward. They will have no new measures. They cannot have any of this new-light preaching, or of these evangelists that go about the country preaching. They have a great deal to say about God's being a sovereign, and that he will have revivals come in his own way and time. But then he must choose to have it just in their way, or they will have nothing to do with it. Such men will sleep on till they are awakened by the judgment trumpet, without a revival, unless they are willing that God should come in his own way--unless they are willing to have any thing or any body employed, that will do the most good.

8. Strictly I should say that when the foregoing things occur, a revival, to the same extent, already exists. In truth a revival should be expected whenever it is needed. If we need to be revived it is our duty to be revived. If it is duty it is possible, and we should set about being revived ourselves, and, relying on the promise of Christ to be with us in making disciples always and everywhere, we ought to labor to revive Christians and convert sinners, with confident expectation of success. Therefore, whenever the church needs reviving they ought and may expect to be revived, and to see sinners converted to Christ. When those things are seen which are named under the foregoing heads, let Christians and ministers be encouraged and know that a good work is already begun. Follow it up.

REMARKS.
1. Brethren, you can tell from our subject, whether you need a revival here or not, in this church, and in this city; and whether you are going to have one or not. Elders of the church, men, women, any of you, and all of you--what do you say?

Do you need a revival here?

Do you expect to have one?

Have you any reason to expect one?

You need not make any mist about it; for you know, or can know if you will, whether you have any reason to look for a revival here.

2. You see why you have not a revival. It is only because you do not want one. Because you are not praying for it; nor anxious for it, nor putting forth efforts for it. I appeal to your own consciences. Are you making these efforts now, to promote a revival? You know, brethren, what the truth is about it. Will you stand up and say that you have made the efforts for a revival and been disappointed--that you have cried to God, "Wilt thou not revive us?" and God would not do it?

3. Do you wish for a revival? Will you have one? If God should ask you this moment, by an audible voice from heaven, "Do you want a revival?" would you dare to say, Yes? "Are you willing to make the sacrifices?" would you answer, Yes? "When shall it begin?" would you answer, Let it begin to-night--let it begin here--let it begin in my heart NOW? Would you dare to say so to God, if you should hear his voice to-night?

J
jewalz

Brothers,
revival is needed because the church is dead, deceived and basically sick to its core. If we confess we need revival it is because we confess that we or our surroundings, communities, churches are dead. If we are dead then we need to be revived. Revival is the sovereign visitation of God to a dead people who need His life and are suddenly revived (brought to life)to live again and become His faithful bride. Usually all of the false altars are torn down, the asherer poles etc. and the false prophets/teachers are exposed and true and 'authentic' worship and authentic Christianity are placed in their proper places. Once we are 'revived' we are alive and have no need for revival personally or corporately, what we then need is to maintain our authentic revived'life'. Now with divine life in our hearts we look around us and begin to groan and weep at the valley of dry bones that extends from our front porch all the way to the gates of hell. So now we are burdened with revival for others, revival for the other churches who are stinking and drowning in their death. We can no longer sit by.
This is the state of the kingdom in this land folks. it is up to us to beseach the God of the Living and bang on heavens door until He answers by fire and water.
If the fuel on this site does not end up in holy conbustion in the hearts and minds of those who feed here then there will be a great sigh in heaven as God taps His finger waiting for those who are at least still breathing to do something before He pulls the plug on this who wretched system!
It would be better to die now than to live another day in this mass of corruption as part of it. If you are not on fire then I recommend that you get some fuel on your altar and have a chat with the God of Elijah and guess what? He is neither dead nor deaf, just ready yourself.....
I rejoice today that we are closer to the Lord's return and closer to revival since God is ready to hear our prayers.
MARANATHA!
Julian Raven

M
mamaluk


no.
we need persecution, first.

then comes the revival.
for the "deceitfullness of wealth", has become the thorn bush engulfing my mother country.

empty the people's wallets, empty their bellies, and then they will realize their utter dependency on God.

yep, true,

revival will perhaps come only after the tearing down of mammon, if not from peoples' hearts, pulpits will be good places to start..


A
Andrew_Strom


I tend to agree that Revival and Judgment will come together in the USA - especially ECONOMIC judgment.

People are too complacent and comforable to seek after God.

But a crash may be closer than we think. The death
of the housing bubble right now is about to cause MAJOR problems it seems.

When mammon is dethroned, then perhaps the people will hunger after eternal things...

-Andrew Strom.

S
sermonindex

LoveGrace, you wrote:

I don't believe persecution is 'needed' to cause a revival as one brother mentioned because no where does it say in the word 'first persecution then revival'.

Sure it does. Jesus was beaten , unmercifully, spat upon, mocked, tortured, nailed to a cross, died, then was mutilated by having a spear thrust in His side.

The 120 in the Upper Room were broken, scared, hding behind closed doors, not knowing WHAT WAS NEXT.

Yes, the resurrected Lord had appeared to them, but then He was taken up in a cloud, what next?

Your broken, lost and totally dependent on God....

THEN, Pentecost.

Man can's "start" a revival, here's a wonderful testimony from Duncan Campbell on the revival in the Hebrides, if you havent listened to it yet, you'll really like it.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1319


In Jesus love, bartle

R
RobertW

I think the key to real revival is found in Isaiah 6:1 when Isaiah, reeling from the loss of Uzziah, received a revelation of the glory of God. His immediate response was to confess his sin. This is what happens when the Glory of God is manifest.

M
Mekdi

Mahoney,

You asked what we’re waiting for? My answer is everything!!! Everything from the church is gone! Everything from my life is gone! I want the truth to come back for me and for the church! America might have counted 50 years before revival but here in my country we saw it in the early 80s during the communist regime. Eventhough I was very young by then and did not receive the Lord in my life I remember everything-I remember how the church shook the nation until the communist regime trembled! Thousands came to Christ, the blind see, the lame walk, the deaf hear (it is literal) The persecution boiled, the fire doubled but the believers prevailed, The underground church prevailed- There were salvations, there were martyrdoms, there were literal miracles-women were tied with dead donkeys and thrown to hyenas for their faith but the hyenas would only eat the dead donkey and leave the tied ones ending in the faith of the persecutors, machineguns’ triggers locked when the believers were about to be shot while praying, hands were tied by supernatural power of God in the midst of congregation while trying to shoot the 24 year old revival leader….. But now the church is sleeping along with the democracy and the freedom and if you want to know what I’m waiting for-this is what I’m waiting for!!! We need God-If you think God is present among us with all his glory (with who he is and what he has) you're mistaken! We have everything in the church what we don't have is Christ!-he is standing outside and knocking the door!

Your sis. Mek.

R
RobertW

The church ought to put out the fires of hell which are laying hold of the wicked. Sleep! Should the firemen sleep, and let the whole city burn down: what would be thought of such firemen? And yet their guilt would not compare with the guilt of Christians who sleep while sinners around them are sinking stupid into the fires of hell.

Another of the enemies successful tactics in our times is to place the blame of every calamity on some political figure rather than calling on God for deliverance. We seen it with 9-11 and Katrina. How long before the urgency turned to finger pointing? How long before the fear that gripped the people from coast to coast gave way to Patriotism and then the blame game? I am afraid that calamity is loosing traction to get the people to turn back to God on a national scale. Calamity hits and the nation is stunned for a while and then seems to just move right along. Unless the disaster is hitting every home hard and heavy and relentlessly I am not sure what it would take to shake folk up.

E
enid

Concerning persecution, what is there to persecute?

The church in the western nations, as opposed to those elsewhere, doesn't need persecution, because we are primarily ineffective.

On a national level, sin is effectively written into law, with either no protest, or media blackout if there is.

The church is incredibly apathetic, sickeningly so.

It offers no answers to the world around it, and those who are in the church are falling away.

And no one seems to be doing anything about it.

So you ask, what am I doing about it?

My vague answer is whatever I can.

Scripturally speaking that is.

I know it is not a pretty picture that I paint, but, unfortunately, I paint what I see, warts and all.

We need, each one of us, to seek God daily, in prayer, in His word, through times of fasting, and watching, and beg Him.

We don't beg. We should. In true humility, beg God to move. If He doesn't, we're lost, all of us. God forbid that should happen.

It won't, if we seek Him.

God bless.

B
BradW

Concerning persecution, what is there to persecute?

The church in the western nations, as opposed to those elsewhere, doesn't need persecution, because we are primarily ineffective.

On a national level, sin is effectively written into law, with either no protest, or media blackout if there is.

The church is incredibly apathetic, sickeningly so.

It offers no answers to the world around it, and those who are in the church are falling away.

Absolutely correct, Enid.
It's when the Church is flourishing and strong that persecution for the name of Christ is experienced. Until then, satan doesn't have to do anything but walk through our congregations and sing songs along with everyone else. Sorry for the sarcasm.

Bartle,
I think you mean that it's judgment that will have to come before revival. God have mercy on us all.

A
Andrew_Strom


Isn't it an amazing thing that there have been
Awakenings in this nation roughly EVERY 50 YEARS -
going back OVER 2 CENTURIES??

How terrible it would be to be the first generation
in 250 years to miss this "window" of Revival.

It is now 50 years since the last one. We need to PRAY!!

-Andrew Strom.

S
sermonindex

Thank you and God bless you for that testimony.

May God protect the Church throughout the Horn of Africa, and in Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi, Chad and Congo.

Difficult days to be sure, but great things are happening in those lands. True, I live in empire, a fat land, but in many ways, I envy the Churches throughout the Horn.

May God bless and protect you, neil

S
sermonindex

you wrote:

Bartle, I think you mean that it's judgment that will have to come before revival. God have mercy on us all.

Brad, brother, I'm very precise about words, I meant persecution, and I believe that it will come from within what will be CALLED the "church", which will be an apostatized civic nationalistic religion, it will wrap itself in the flag, and in the empire, and it will kill and persecute anyone who doesnt go along with the program.

it will be a religion, and it will say "lord lord", but rest assured it will have nothing to do with Jesus, and everything to do with power wealth and position....as Jesus said in Mark,

"watch".

D
death2self

I believe you're to something here Bartle. As someone who lives in the Washington DC area, one would assume that Jesus must be a Republican. I don't believe Jesus would be a politician at all.

Whenever I think of the dear Chinese brethren and other persecuted members of the body of Christ, this verse comes to mind quite often from 1 Peter 4:1 Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin.

May the name of Jesus be glorified.

As to the last revival, there certainly was a move of God but not on the scale of the past movements. I'm praying that the Lord will pour out his spirit one last time...

B
BenBrockway

Oh, how we need REVIVAL. America is in desperate need for a stirring of the Holy Spirit to move across the land. When will men and women stand up and stand firm for the cause of Christ. When will we pursue revival at ALL costs? We need to be on our faces crying out to the Lord. Floor boards and carpets need to be dented in by knees. When are we gonna stop being fakers and become history makers?

This morning as a buddy of mine and I were praying for Revival, I came across this Scripture, which we all know:
Ephesians 6:10-19a
The Armor of God
"10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.
19Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel..."

When are we gonna have men (and women) fully equipped? When are we gonna be gutsy enough to stand firm against an enemy that has already been defeated? Why do we sit back and watch? When are we going to be on the offensive instead of the defensive. We NEED to reclaim America. We do need preachers and prayers. We have too many men and women living in comfort rather then living dangerously for the Lord. Now IS the time. Who is gonna stand up with me? Who is going to boldly go where no man has gone before… in the last 50 years?

WE NEED REVIVAL
:-) :-) :-)

B
BradW

Bro Bartle,
My mistake. With that explanation of persecution from "within" a pharisaic church...you're absolutely right.

what will be CALLED the "church", which will be an apostatized civic nationalistic religion, it will [b]wrap itself in the flag[/b], and in the empire

This encapsulates why I get uneasy when so many Christians talk so strongly of patriotism. We are citizens OF Heaven; not dual citizens with preference to Heaven.

God bless

B
BenBrockway

A thought that I didn't write down was that we need to be FULLY equipped - not just partially, not just have one piece of the armor and not the other - we are REQUIRED to be fully equipped. God doesn't want just some of us, He wants ALL of us. When are we going to have men and women who are committed to Christ and Christ alone?

S
sermonindex

Getting back to the orginal topic of the thread about 50 year cycles, I believe this is valid for many reasons. One of the main reasons that I can think of is that God deals in "generations". He does deal with individuals but there is something in the economy of God that deals with broadstrokes to whole generations.

I read this verse in Jeremiah that readily came to mind:

"O Generation, see ye the word of the Lord." - Jeremiah 2:31

Oh does not God call out to this whole generation of Christians! to forsake our old ways and the broken cisterns we have made and to leave these man made methods, and machinery. We need to come to the Father of lights, the Living God and allow His living waters to be our strength.

Could God be pleading with this generation to either forsake him and continue on in the flesh or humble ourselves, pray, repent and see times of refreshing in the church, revival!

I do believe that this is a pivotal time and how much longer can this go on until we have judgement. I read last night fearfully the Holy Scriptures and my eyes feel upon "Judgement must begin at the house of God."

Oh, House of God seek the Lord while He yet might be found. Our God in pitful in mercies and longsuffering, But How long does he suffer this generation in its current state?

By the way we live we are saying we don't need God, that what has begun in the Spirit we can perfect in the flesh.

"The reason that we don't have revival is because we are content to live without it." -Leonard Ravenhill

Now is the time to pray and repent before God. Practically I recommend that you find at least 1 other person with a like-mind and pray with them a few times a week before God. Pleading before God for His empowering on His Church and repentance in the body.

B
BenBrockway


sermonindex wrote:
Practically I recommend that you find at least 1 other person with a like-mind and pray with them a few times a week before God. Pleading before God for His empowering on His Church and repentance in the body.

Amen Greg! This is a must. A buddy of mine and I have been doing this for nearly 8 months now. The passion for revival ever grows stronger each and every day.

A
Andrew_Strom


Yes - one of my greatest concerns for America right now is whether she has "paid the price" in PRAYER for Revival to come.

Previous generations paid the price in their time.

What about today??

-Andrew Strom.

J
jewalz


The last frontier for us as Christians in this world is the death of our bodies. I believe the price that is to be paid will bring us to the very threshold of death and it is there where we meet the Living One who will send us forth with resurrection power.
The quality and character of the men who set the world on fire is of a caliber that we see little of today. The battle is for the market place, the public square, the streets. If the church will pour out onto the streets in the power of pentecost we will see the forces of darkness pushed back into their hellish holes.
Until we are able to be Christians in public as we are in private in a free land we will always have hidden renewals. I believe that the day is coming when we will begin to meet in public again as in Solomons Porch where the people looked on in fear at the saints of the Most high God. There in the market place with the freedoms we enjoy in this land we can allow the fullness of the power and authority of the kingdom of God to be established. This is when the courage that is so lacking in the church will return as the armies of the living God see the head of Goliath roll off his shoulders! Alleluia!
Until men and women get out of their comfortable little lives and ready themselves for the end of their lives all this is is scintilating conversation!
It is the people who when faced with persecution and threats go to God and instead of asking for God to deliver them they ask for more boldness to proclaim His name in the face of all the hordes of hell that have massed against them! Their lives were not their lives.
Now obviously you have to be a 'living' stone to do this and that is where revival is needed in the church.
It is in courageous obedience and unconditional submission to the Lord's will that we will see men and women come alive, when we no longer love our pathetic little existences, our little ideas, our petty images of The Mighty One of Israel, Our puny little religious games, and our perverted view of what it means to be a Christian!
Humiltiy and obedience was the price Jesus paid before He even went to the cross. PHIL 2. He had to abandon His throne first and die to self before he even came and died for us.
So folks, do some dieing and we might see revival!
Oh that wonderful cross, Oh that wonderful cross!!!!Oh that wonderful cross!!!
I will see you on the battle field!
Julian Raven

L
lovegrace

Brother Andrew if very accurate when he said "
But a crash may be closer than we think. The death
of the housing bubble right now is about to cause MAJOR problems it seems."

In Miami alone, there are 10,000 homes un occupied. The forclosure rate next year will be about 37-39%.

Not to mention, economic fall is something rising up in my spirit, for w/e reason (God only knows) and I'm being a steward of my money now, to make sure that fall doesn't include me.

**Bartle, your case isn't solid. The Jesus metaphor was great, but not the 'scared disciples' I'm sorry but that's not persecution, thats fear. But also, I don't remember reading in the Word of God (forget your tradition) where is says that the disciples are 'scared/fearful' before pentacost.

Your case isn't solid.

Sure their might be a trend with 'persecution first then revival' like in china. But doesn't mean it's a biblical principle.

I also reject this idea of Brother Andrew's '50 yr. revival'. Because it's saying, in a way, that you can understand when God is moving greatly. Which by the way, his stats omit the 'Jesus movement'(Which Calvary Chapel and Vineyard stem from, or am I in error and thinking of a different revival. Cause from what I know, Jesus movement was in late 1960's- early 1970's), which almost everyone (older) I know, was saved in.


If the church wants real revival they need to cast down their idols of fornication, murder, sensation, materialism, rape, lying, covetness, and any abominable thing before the Living God.


Hmm, something interesting to note. Most people in the prophetic movement right now, are saying revival will be next year, that this year is bascially a preperation. I don't endorse them, nor do I deny them as the Family of God, but for me, in my area (Tampa Bay) this has become true. Many things have changed resently. Many prayer movements have happened, prayer walks with numerous churches, churches coming together to pray, schools increasing in Christians clubs, and other things beyond my sight.

God is moving. Will we submit to Him and follow during His next move?

S
sermonindex


I just published a article on revival that I think is one fundamental reason why we don't have revival:

[b]The Church Has No Tears! by Greg Gordon[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=13168&forum=16

A
Andrew_Strom

How true, Greg!

The church largely has no tears.

We need agonizing, "wrestling" pray-ers and intercessors in this hour!! The need is urgent.

America - will you step up to the plate?

-Andrew Strom.

R
RobertW

Andrew's:

America - will you step up to the plate?

Another way of asking this is, will we lay ourselves upon the altar? When the altar is 'full' the fire will fall. When the sacrifice is acceptable and well pleasing- the fire will fall. Jesus said He came to send FIRE on the earth. G.W. North, asked the question and it seemed as if he was pointing right at me, he asked, "Can he safely send you? Because He only sends FIRE." That saying troubled me for weeks. I then wondered, am I ALL on the altar? Is the whole of my LIFE a living burnt offering? The fire comes when the conditions are right and we can't fool God. Where the sacrifice? Am I willing to go and do what God has been saying and I have been refusing? Can I utterly sacrifice my will for His? If yes, He will more than be willing to send the FIRE. What can take the place of the blood and the fire?


[b]SEND THE FIRE[/b]
William Booth (1894)

Thou Christ of burning, cleansing flame,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!
Thy blood bought gift today we claim,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!
Look down and see this waiting host,
Give us the promised Holy Ghost;
We want another Pentecost,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!

God of Elijah, hear our cry:
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!
To make us fit to live or die,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!
To burn up every trace of sin,
To bring the light and glory in,
The revolution now begin,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!

’Tis fire we want, for fire we plead,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!
The fire will meet our every need,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!
For strength to ever do the right,
For grace to conquer in the fight,
For power to walk the world in white,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!

To make our weak hearts strong and brave,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!
To live a dying world to save,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!
O see us on Thy altar lay
Our lives, our all, this very day;
To crown the offering now we pray,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!

S
sermonindex

you wrote:

**Bartle, your case isn't solid. The Jesus metaphor was great, but not the 'scared disciples' I'm sorry but that's not persecution, thats fear. But also, I don't remember reading in the Word of God (forget your tradition) where is says that the disciples are 'scared/fearful' before pentacost.

okay.

Scripture says one thing to another, and another thing to another person, all I know is this, when wallets and bellies are full, people forget dependency on God, thats not my "tradition", thats reality, lived out, right in front of you, right in front of us.

empty the bellies, empty the wallets, people get wiggy, they look to a savior, and maybe that savior might be.....a hitler, and he will speak English, and maybe the True Church will oppose him, then you'll get persecution, or maybe one will join the church of the damned, that is the civic nationalistic religion, and it will call itself "christian".

It's happened before.

S
sermonindex

Until we are able to be Christians in public as we are in private in a free land we will always have hidden renewals.

you are free to do this, but how do you see this as manifested.

I'll be very honest and frank with you, when you write:

This is when the courage that is so lacking in the church will return as the armies of the living God see the head of Goliath roll off his shoulders

I get a check in my spirit. I think you mean this as metaphor, but when I read "armies of the living God" and the "head of Goliath roll off his shoulders", check the news. I read about "Hezbouallah" the "party of God" (army of god) and some of these jihadists have no qualms about beheading their fellow muslims, and they do it in the name of god....thats why I get a check in my spirit....so, what does that mean to you when you write such rhetoric?

How do you see the "battlefield" walking itself out?

and please describe to me, please, what entails a "perverted view" of being a Christian?

respectfully, bartle

S
sermonindex

you wrote:

We NEED to reclaim America.

what does that mean to you? How does that walk itself out?

Are you talking about a theocracy?

respectfully, bartle

J
jewalz

Bless you Bartle!

We have lost the culture war because we have lost the streets to the culture of sin. Christianity is The public faith. Christ was born in public, lived in public, 95 % of his and ministry was in public and He died in public. In the book of acts 95 % of the acts of the apostles happen in public even the majority of the martyrdoms.The church is conceived in the upper room and is born onto the streets. Compare that with todays insular and hidden 'Christianity' and there is the answer. People behave one way in church and another way in public. They drop the volume of their conversation when it comes to naming the Lord Jesus.....in general Christians are ashamed of the Lord and His precious name, and that only happens in public and this is where we have lost the battle in a free society and it is the primary realm where the Holy Spirit will restrain sin if we will go as the temples of the Holy Spirit and allow Him to manifest through us.

Until Christians no longer are ashamed of Him we will only have this pervading sickness! WIth the freedoms we enjoy in this land we should have prayer meetings, bible studies all manner of Christian expression on every street conrner through out the landm, every day and especially on Sundays. We will see it change because we are bearers of the presence of Christ and He will restrain sin. In lawless lands they will kill us to turn the light off, in this land they have made the church ashamed of its Lord and for this it need to repent!
As to Goliath, it is the way our land is today. There is a horn raised up that is yelling and cursing in the public arena, it blasphemes, it slanders, it mocks, it flauts its sin, it murders, it fornicates and sodomizes and in its perverted frenzy it has intimidated the church. The church is like the armies of Israel, cowering in the trenches at the voice of the perverted six fingered giant. It will take bold faced confrontations to behead the philistine and then as usual the armies get up and chase off the rest of the demon horde...... Now how does this look, it must start with our fearless public testimony as a church. All of the leaders, the members publically gathering continually, breaking bread together, worshipping together, shining bright for Jesus Christ, week after week until we retake this land, until the strongholds are thrown down and the perverted spirits are pushed back into their hellish holes.
And finally as to perverted Christianity, look at the book of acts and see the true expression of Christians, compare it with today and all we can see is perversion. Peoples models and examples especially in leadership are in general something other than what the biblical model illustrates. This is a distortion, a perversion, an aberation what ever you want to call it but it is not Christianity!
When the leaders stop being busy with their pathetic programs and pursuing their careers and all of that other stuff that they do as a substitute we will see men lead the triumphant procession into the public arena and there unleash our victorious faith and nothing but victory will be ours. It might mean that they being to persecute us and we will seal our testimony with our blood, but either way we will and can only win if we will just go...

God bless,
Julian Raven

C
ChrisJD

50-YEAR AWAKENINGS in USA

I thought of the Jubile year this morning, Leviticus 25:8-16.

A
Andrew_Strom


Yes - isn't that amazing that there have basically
been "Jubilee" Revivals in America?!

How extraordinary is that!?

-Andrew Strom.

C
Compton

In agreement with many here, I believe Andrew's 'hypothosis' that we are at a critical point regarding the hope of revival is worth serious consideration. I wanted to bring light to one more possible hindrance...


We NEED to reclaim America.

Perhaps America has already claimed too many of us....A terrible spirit quencher these days is the political feeding frenzy that seems to claim our hearts and minds. This left and right contest in America is stealing our passion away from eternal things. (I realize that Jewalz wasn't being only political with this statement...)

I remember reading an American church history book printed in the very late 1800's. The writer, over a hundred years ago, looked back on the Revolutionary War with a cautionary lament.

The reason?

Colonial pastors in the mid 1700's were saddened as the issue of political independence from England swept into their congregations, cooling the fires of the Great Aweakening. Christians were being distracted...reclaimed by a new and more immediate enterprise.

This negative aspect of the Revolutionay War is forgotten by our current generation of American churches. Now we are faced with this problem again...important political battles threaten to steal our passions away from God and each other...steal them away just at the very hour we need God more then ever...

(edit: I'm probably talking mostly to myself...)

MC

L
lovegrace

Bartle, in love I say these things because some things you said are quite dangerous.

Scripture says one thing to another, and another thing to another person,

That's saying relative truth. And brother (or sister) that is EXTREMLY dangerous. A JW, Mormon, Muslim, and Catholic can read the same scripture and say 'God says something else'. When in all truth, all 4 of them are wrong in their understanding of the Word of God.

If your burden from God is to pray for persecution. Then by all means do so. But don't say that scripture approves of such things, if you can't quote a scripture.

I [b]could[/b] say 'Jesus, didn't rise from the said' and someone would reply, 'Where in the bible is that?' and I say, 'I don't know, but that's what God told me.'

Sorry but that show no validity and my example was a completly false doctrine. We need scriptures to back up our statements.

If you, Bartle (or anyone), can show me a scripture (perferably 2-3)that states persecution FIRST then revival. I will indeed repent for my words to you.

Jewalz, where do you get these '95%' quotes?? They sound great, but what is your backing.

I bet to most of my readers are saying 'wow, you sound critical'. That I maybe, but we (the Church) needs to have a ready answer. Not just quoting things that 'feel true' nor 'look true' we need the WORD OF GOD. And I don't want to see any of my brothers and sisters stuck in a 'he said, she said' theology but instead a WORD OF GOD theology, one that is based on GOD's word.

Bartle, you are right on about the love of money. And Julian your overall post was great.

Blessings brethren, but be careful. :-)

J
jewalz

God bless you lovegrace!

"Jewalz, where do you get these '95%' quotes?? They sound great, but what is your backing."

They are estimates from reading scripture, scripture is the backing. It seems clear to me from scripture that the faith of Abraham down through Christ and then through the Apostles and first century Church was public in its ultimate expression. The courage and confidence that the believers had, found its ultimate expression on the streets or in the arena. They understood that this message, that we bear must be presented at all times as a witness to the resurrection of Jesus Christ. They understood their identity and did not live for anything else except the gospel. Christian life revolved around the declaratrion of this message. Lives we harnessed, ambitions were flushed down the tube, posessions were sold, gifts and talents were pooled, they all lived for one reason and one reason only.

I think it fair to say that if you gather up the acts of the apostles you will find them(most of the time.) in settings other than their own homes or church buildings! ;-) WHat this says to me is that God only finds this to be worth recording, this was exemplarary! It says to me that this is the way, this is the model, this is authentic Christianity. When we see the state of the church and we compare its activitities to what we read in Acts we or at least I am some what horrified!

The American culture and the American dream is so embedded in the church that we, those who are alive to Christ groan continually as we see this perverted expression of the church of Jesus Christ.

I believe without a doubt and through experience that the ultimate expression is found in public, that the ultimate battles are fought in public, that the revival that will transform the culture will be expressed on the streets. When the vast body of believers in this land begin to pour out of their confort zones, our of their buildings and nice homes, wave upon wave of them pouring into the public square and there continually declaring the excellencies of Jesus Christ, worshipping, praying, repenting for the sins of the land, and it might have to be biblical in self humiliation, we might have to don the robes of divine grief, SACK-CLOTH! O NOOOOOOOOO! WHAT WILL THE NEIGBOURS THINK? WHAT WILL I THINK, MY IMAGE, MY REPUTATION, MY JOB, MY POPULARITY, MY ,MY,MY,MY,MY O MY! AND THEN SMEAR SOME ASHES ON YOUR HEAD AND SIT IN GRIEF AND MOURNING! IMAGINE ALL OVER THE LAND, WEEK AFTER WEEK, WAVE UPON WAVE, WEEPING AND WAILING, LORD FORGIVE US!

SOMEHOW WE HVE TO GET GOD'S ATTENTION AND LET HIM BE CONVINCED THAT WE ARE SERIOUS!

AND THEN IT WILL HAPPEN!
Julian Raven

S
sermonindex

Bartle, in love I say these things because some things you said are quite dangerous.

really?....um, I'm kind of amused. coz I re-read what I wrote, and it didnt seem that "dangerous" to me, I think maybe you might have misunderstand what I was trying to say.

Personally, I believe, I know, IN FAITH, that the Bible is the inerrant, infallble God-Breathed Word of God, and that Jesus is His Son, Who was raised from the dead, and Whose Blood provides cleansing from sin.


what I meant when I wrote:


Scripture says one thing to another, and another thing to another person,

was this: even on this forum you have believers interpeting Scripture quite differently, some will say they are calvinists, some say "aminianist", (and brother, please, I still to this second do not understand what they both MEAN, nor do I really care to).....so, you can have brothers and sisters, on this very forum, all having different interpetations of the same Scripture, thats what I meant.

so..."relative truth"? Brother, I'm not big on comparative religion, because I really don't care about Islam, or Catholicism, or Hinduism, Buddhism, its irrelevant to me, as would also be proclaiming to any of these adherents to the faiths I just mentioned, that they didnt know the truth.

Thats the Holy Spirit's job, and I'm confident He is "up to the task".

As far as what the Spirit has led to me discern, ie...persecution, then revival is entirely Scriptural.

When I read the Bible, I put myself in the heart of Peter, or Nehemiah, or King David.

My Bible's on the dining room table, so I'm just going to write from my heart, and whether you agree or not, and I say in respect and love, doesn't really factor into the meanderings of my heart...please don't take offense, but I don't expect you to agree, nor NEED you to agree, so don't worry about repenting.

Lets just consider King David, he came to power admist a nation in calamity, a bloody transfer of power, a mad king (Saul) committing suicide IN battle, enemies all around, the Ark in foreign hands, a comrade who was blasted dead by God for fooling with Holy Things....it was a mess, AND he had a wife, who thought him a fool by letting the Holy Spirit seize him in joy and dance with Spirit-filled abandon...that was a revival.

Look at Nehemiah, in exile, in a far off land, and he hears of the depths to which Jerusalem had sunk, a battered filthy, burnt hulk of a city, and how the people were suffering UNDER PERSECUTION.....and he wept, tore his clothes, fast prayed, confessed....the Spirit led him back to Jerusalem, even during the building of the Temple and the walls of the city the people were persecuted and set upon by foes all around, but God is good, the Temple was rebuilt and God graced the people with revival.

Consider Peter and those 120 believers in the Upper Room, Jesus had just been crucified, if that isn't the ultimate persecution, I don't know what is, and here's Peter, he's denied Christ three times, reinstated by the Risen Lord, but he HAS chopped off the ear of one of the temple elite/hirelings/followers....pharisee....whoever, so Peter is probably laying low, they all are, Peter doesn't know who is coming thru the door of that Upper Room next, romans? temple guards?

that sounds like persecution to me, hiding, regarded as just an obscure "Nazarene" cult by the religious authorities of the day, hemmed in by the roman empire on one side, religious orthodoxy on another and greek philosphy on the other, But they were of one accord, and the Holy Spirit blew in, annointed them and in the first sermon of Messianic Judaism, Peter preached a sermon where 3,000 were brought to Christ...sounds like a revival to me...


Stephen gets stoned, what happens? Revival in Antioch. "Where does it say that in Scripture"?

Read Acts...I mean I know you have, but if your looking for three pat verses from me, I just referenced two sections of OT, three synoptic Gospels and John , along with Acts

all based on God's Word, and dear brother, I stand on, and in God's Word, and my "theology" is "I believe God".

a child of Abraham and a follower of Jesus, thats what I am....so may God bless you is my prayer, bartle

A
Andrew_Strom


I still believe there is a tremendous URGENCY for the USA at this moment. But there are so many counterfeits and distractions out there. Even Politics can distract from the gospel - especially here in America.

What will it take to wake people up? A crash, a calamity?

I truly believe there is a "window" - and it will not last forever.

-Andrew Strom.

R
RobertW

What will it take to wake people up? A crash, a calamity?

God can supernaturally bring an urgency into the hearts of ministers that re-ignites their fire and zeal in these times. In 2003 God started stirring me in the night and it was a sovereign move on His part. I was not praying for it or looking for it- He just visited me with it. I am seeing the results of thise spreading- and building momentum all around me. Some ministers are going so far as to ask, "What kind of Gospel have I been preaching? How many people have I deceived? How can I go back and 'undo' what I have been preaching over the years?" God is waking them up to the truth and some are horrified at the results. Yet God is effecting change. :-)

C
crsschk

Even Politics can distract from the gospel - especially here in America.

Was wondering where this needed to be placed;

2Ti 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
2Ti 2:4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of [i]this[/i] life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

A
Andrew_Strom


Yes - there are legitimate issues of righteousness to be concerned about - but far too many of us in USA think that electing the right guy brings us closer to godliness. Politics is not God's priority at all. He wants to transform this nation SPIRITUALLY and a lot of our political striving is simply a TERRIBLE WASTE OF TIME.

Imagine if we spent that time PRAYING??

-Andrew Strom.

R
RobertW

Imagine if we spent that time PRAYING??

Yes. and out on the front lines witnessing and preaching, etc. :-)

C
Compton

Imagine if we spent that time PRAYING

That's it, isn't it!? We still haven't exausted our own resources yet to call on God.

We need to come to the place with our government almighty that is described in this old country song lyric;

"I felt so much better once I finally lost all hope."

I'm also reminded of a quote by Winston Churchill regarding horseraces...I paraphrase here:

"The left wingers and the right wingers are united by the bond of a common immorality."

MC

R
Rahman

Bro Strom wrote;
"What will it take to wake people up? A crash, a calamity?"

What did it take for Israel to wake up ... It certainly wasn't pro-actively adhereing to the repentance message of the prophets, nay but re-active repentance once the calamity warned about finally fell ... :-?

Of course there's always a window, but it seems to me human nature and wishful thinking to always think there's more grace period left than there really is ... :-(


Bro Compton wrote;
"We still haven't exausted our own resources yet to call on God."

Amen ... There can be no Peniel experience (seeing God face to face and recieving the blessing) before experiencing our Jabbok (the emptying place of all self reliance) ... Until we come to the end of our perspiration (seeking power from on high by our own methods), we will never experience inspiration (the recieving of power from on high by God's methods) ...

One of the things that amazes me so much about God's under shepherds of His Church, namely His pastor/teachers, is that so often they point out to the flock as being the problem when it's them that's been called to leadership (which is why we all should pray for them so hard) ... So often we hear pastors rail 2 Chron. 7: 14 at their congregations, when in fact if they would only apply Joel 1 & 2 to themselves and their ministerial staffs first, lying and weeping between the porch and the altar until they recieve from heaven the fire that will first fry the sin amongst themselves, and thereby assuring them the power of purity to then call forth the entire body toward that same cleansing fire ...

i don't know how many of you have been used of our Lord in attempts to pointing this out to any pastors, but it's been my experience that no matter how humbly and lovingly this insight is brought to fore leadership is gonna be offended ... i guess pro-actively weeping and crying out to our Lord in repentance till hearing from heaven isn't something most pastors want to lead in anymore - if ever, so by God's own terrible grace, for He disciplines as many as He loves, we'll eventually (and i think very soon) be introduced to such re-actively crying out in masse due to His correcting hand (which most of us will see as coming out of the blue) which He has stayed in His long suffering - but it has in fact been a long time coming ... But we had neither ears to hear the approaching storm, nor eyes to see because we we're convinced that we were rich and in need of nothing, and to those fools whom God placed the warning trumpet to their lips we marginalized as being just way to over the top ...

Bless God that in spite of ourselves He'll never leave us or forsake us, and the gates of hell shall never prevail against us, for He who has begun His good work in us is HIMSELF determined to finish it!!! ... Amen :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

C
Christisking

Yes - there are legitimate issues of righteousness to be concerned about - but far too many of us in USA think that electing the right guy brings us closer to godliness. Politics is not God's priority at all. He wants to transform this nation SPIRITUALLY and a lot of our political striving is simply a TERRIBLE WASTE OF TIME.

Imagine if we spent that time PRAYING??

You are right - it is an absolute complete waste of time! Legislating morality does nothing to change mens hearts and get them born again or to bring men into the Kingdom of God. Saudi Arabia and Iran legislate morality extremely well but most them are still going to hell with out a Savior. Even if we were successful in legislating morality it would do nothing to save men and we would be no better then an Iran or Saudi Arabia just under a Christian banner instead of a Muslim banner.

We should spend our time praying and fasting and reaching the lost with the Good News of Jesus Christ - preaching repentance and the new birth instead of trying to get laws changed. It does not matter who gets elected what matters is that men repent and are born again and set free from the bondage of sin and the devil!!!

Imagine if we spent that time PRAYING & REACHING THE LOST??

A
Andrew_Strom


Big question - do you think there is ENOUGH PRAYER going on in America today to see an outpouring?

-Andrew Strom.

S
sermonindex

you and yours are doing it, and you are always in my thoughts and in my prayers, you the wife and the kids, and those who gather with you in that small corner of inner city Detroit, and the Lord Jesus is with you all.

I love you all so much, and as I type this I send my prayers heavenward, neil

B
BenBrockway


Andrew_Strom wrote:

Big question - do you think there is ENOUGH PRAYER going on in America today to see an outpouring?

-Andrew Strom.

Heck no. Can God still use it? Yes, after all He is God, but I think we need more pray-ers and intercessors.

C
Christisking

Big question - do you think there is ENOUGH PRAYER going on in America today to see an outpouring?

No, I think if there already was we would already see it. I remember read about William Seymour from Azuza Street and that he was praying two hours a day for the baptism of the Holy Spirit and endowment with power from on high. After continuing this for a time and still not receiving the Lord told his to pray MORE. He them starting praying five hours every day until eventually he received the baptism and endowment he sought. We need to have that same holy hunger after the Lord and if we don't see it them we need to pray MORE and MORE and MORE until we do. If you pray one hour a day then start praying two and if you pray two hours a day then start praying three. There is no other option - we have no other choice but to pray more and more until we receive what we are seeking REVIVAL!!!!!

Andrew Murray has a great book on prayer I am sure many of you have heard of and read called "With Christ In The School Of Prayer" If it has been a while it worth a re-read and if you have never read it it worth the time to read - You can read it for free here -

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/murray/prayer.html

R
Rahman

Andrew_Strom wrote:
"Big question - do you think there is ENOUGH PRAYER going on in America today to see an outpouring?"


Not yet.

R
RobertW

If you pray one hour a day then start praying two and if you pray two hours a day then start praying three. There is no other option - we have no other choice but to pray more and more until we receive what we are seeking REVIVAL!!!!!

Prayer is certainly vital, but I have been wondering of late if there may be some other reason why we have not seen revival. A LOT of prayer has gone up from a LOT of people and still revival terries.

The pattern in the Old Testament is that the FIRE fell once the sacrifice was placed on the altar and the 'conditions' were met. I seriously wonder if we realize that it was David's revelation of the enormity of his sin as a leader that ultimately brought on the building of the altar, the purchase of Ornan's threshing floor and the eventual construction of the Temple. The Temple was built in an atmosphere of thankfulness for the judgment hand of God being stayed at Mount Moriah.

You will recall that David numbered Israel at a time when God was going to send judgment upon Israel. Satan apparently came before the Lord and sought to 'test' David. In this David failed and God judgment came upon the people and David. On the people for their iniquity and on David for his ambitions apart from God (if I might just summarize). When judgment came he pleaded with God to STOP and bring judgment on him and his house. 70,000 were dead and David wanted the judgment to go to him and not the people. God stayed the hand of the angel at Ornan's threshing floor. It is here that David gets a revelation of how bad his sin is and how merciful God is. He was the leader and he sinned. he did not cover it up and he did not call it a mistake. He did not hide behind anything- he stepped out and took responsibility for what he had done. He humbled himself as a sinner before God and praised and thanked God for His mercy.

This is the beginning of REVIVAL. When we stop acting like we are sinless and perfect and thank God for His mercy and grace. When we do as David and build an altar to a merciful and good God. When we recognize that it is not our goodness that keeps us spared, but His mercy that we are not consumed. Without this revelation there will be no altar and without the altar there will be no sacrifice and without the sacrifice there can be NO fire and without the fire there can be no real 'on fire' builders of the Temple. Fire falls when an acceptable sacrifice is placed on the altar (Romans 12:1).

Men don't see revival when they look up to heaven and declare their perfection before Him. Men see God move when they say, "Woe is me for I am undone I am a man of unclean lips and walk among a people of unclean lips." It is then when God says- "Who will go for Us?" and it is then that we can declare, "Here am I SEND me." There will never be revival until we see our lost and lowly estate before God. Not just the sinners in the streets and the churches- but US, but ME, MYSELF and I.

B
BenBrockway

Amen Mr. Wurtz

K
kdbutton

How many intercessors and prayer preceeded the Welsh Revival? The Revival of the 1830's? The Asuza Street Revival? Any other Great Awakening? How about Pentecost? How much is enough?

A
Andrew_Strom


Jerusalem had 120 praying for 10 days.

Other cities also required much prayer.

Wales had multitudes of "prayer circles".

What we need is one place with a breakthrough.

-Andrew Strom.

D
dohzman

I believe America only needs one completely sold out individual interceeding to see revival.

A
Andrew_Strom


Hmmm. Difficult to agree with that.

Maybe a small loclised move - yes.

-Andrew.

D
dohzman

It'll only take one person to start the awakening but that one person will have had to intercede through and die to self through 3 of America's main idols (strong men).

D
dohzman

Localized? Prehaps. I don't believe America will see a national revival, that's my opinion, not from the Lord, however, the generation of young folks from ages 20's downward will see revival or experience the Lord's presence in thier lives in a way that few have through all of christian history . They won't have the hang ups to move spontenously in a public forum that seem to keep most bound at present. They'll be an army of christian workers in all of life full of the grace and love of Christ. And they'll be very effective since they won't be directly promoting anything, but they will be giving Jesus. In communicating Him they will be very effective.

R
RobertW

When the Fire fell in the upper room 120 people turned the world upside down. Phillip was a one man revival when he went into Samaria. Fire spreads. Fire is contagous. We have to have the fire or we cannot do our jobs as a kingdom of priests.

Where's the fire? Where's the fire that is kindled from heaven? When David built the altar and filled it at Ornan's threshing floor God answered by FIRE. When Solomon bowed on the brass scaffold on his knees with his hands raised praising the mercy and goodness of God, beseeching Him to remember His promises, the FIRE fell upon the altar and consumed the sacrifice. The fire does not fall when we assert our goodness, it falls when we acknowledge [u]His[/u] goodness.

I wonder sometimes if the singing and 'worship' I have been a part of is not much more than a heartless mockery. Folk can praise God because He healed their body, gave them a job, or any other thing- but how often have you heard someone stand up and begin to wrecklessly honor and thank the Lord for His mercy and grace? David should have been dead. His kids should have been dead. The people should have been dead. The disciples forsook the Lord and should have been dead and damned, but the hand of judgment was again stayed on Mount Moriah and the FIRE fell in the upper room to consume the living sacrificial lives of the 120 (Romans 12:1).

The Lord near pulled the candlestick of Ephesus. Why? What need is there of a candlestick if the fire goes out on it? The people needed to REPENT. But repent of what? They had left their first love. How? Why? They had forgotten where they came from and left their love for Christ. We love Him because He first loved us. those who were forgiven of much, loveth much. We have all been forgiven of much and ought to [i]love much[/i]. If we connect the dots here the people needed to repent for having forgotten what the Lord had done for them. No love- no FIRE.

Why don't we see God come down? I have heard Ravenhill beg God to rend the heavens and come down. Finney said God would come if we employed [i]means[/i]. Why has revival tarried? Could it be because we refuse to say as did that great Prophet Isaiah, "Woe is me for [b][u]I[/b][/u] am undone,[b][u]I[/b][/u] am a man of unclean lips and walk among a people of unclean lips"? Not- God revive this people or God revive someone else. Not God this people is wretched and you know I am righteous. [i]Woe is me for [b][u]I[/b][/u] am undone,[b][u]I[/b][/u] am a man of unclean lips...[/i] FIRST and the people second.

I have seen it happen on a local level. In early 2004 our church came together when the Pastor was out of town (as the wife was sorely ill [ed.]) and began to cry out to God for our wretched estate. I ran an add in the KC Star declaring my repentance and guilt before God. I have the article to this day. In a period of less than 3 weeks we baptized 30 odd people who came to repent before God and openly and publically acknowledge that they has sinned against the Lord. And as soon as the folk came in who 'had no sin' the fire STOPPED. End of story. Lock the door- its OVER. As soon as the game face returned- the fire departed. I'm just keeping it real here. I believe and God is witness that had we continued in what God was doing revival may have well spread throughout the city. Churches were coming as far as Belton MO. to see what God was doing. Some, when they saw folk publically declaring their wretchedness (not the details- but an acknowledgement of their estate) they 'backed off' and went back to their Purpose Driven Life classes. But there was a great remnant that longed for the FIRE. I have seen what this kind of revival looks like. I have seen folk repenting before God. But it started with the leaders. It started when I said "WOE is me for I am undone!!!" Who are we trying to impress with our sinlessness? WOE is me! WOE is me. When the glory of God comes down thats all you can say... WOE is me... WOE is me... WOE is me...

R
Rahman


Brother Robert wrote;
"Prayer is certainly vital, but I have been wondering of late if there may be some other reason why we have not seen revival. A LOT of prayer has gone up from a LOT of people and still revival tarries. The pattern in the Old Testament is that the FIRE fell once the sacrifice was placed on the altar and the 'conditions' were met."


Brother Robert's phrase "the conditions were met" just screams at me ... I often think what if Church leadership, our pastors/preachers/teachers/under-shepherds, with just even the same intensity as they have for their own agendas, suddenly came to the realization of the following of our Lord's agenda ...

Joel.1
[13] Gird yourselves, and lament, ye priests: howl, ye ministers of the altar: come, lie all night in sackcloth, ye ministers of my God: for the meat offering and the drink offering is withholden from the house of your God.

Joel.2
[17] Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God?
[18] Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people.
[19] Yea, the LORD will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:
[23] Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
[24] And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the vats shall overflow with wine and oil.
[25] And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.
[26] And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.
[27] And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
[28] And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
[29] And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
[30] And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
[31] The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
[32] And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered:

What if Church leadership, our pastors/preachers/teachers/under-shepherds, with just even the same intensity as they have for their own agendas, suddenly came to the realization of the following of our Lord's agenda ... earnestly falling on their faces, seeking heaven till they heard from God? ...

In my own church assignment due to lossing members to other churches and so much grumbling amongst the remainder of the congregation pastor decided to ask for anonymous questions to find out just what was on the peoples minds ... Man did he get more than he bargained for, and some of his retorts came across way less than loving ...

There were questions about his salary and what was going on with the money (both of which at one time was revealed), why so many church programs and why do they cost so much, why so many offering takings? ... Then came the heavy hitting questions: Could we please relegate most of the lengthy announcements to the church bulletin so we could have more time in worship, could we please cut out some of the more entertainment oriented parts of the Sunday morning program so that we could have more time to worship, could we please place more emphasis on Bible Study and less on money making agendas, why is known sin amongst the ministerial staff hushed up and/or tolerated, and then came the loaded questions as to why we were no longer being LED by the man God put in charge in weekly and all night prayer service(s) ...

I'm not judging, just commenting on my observation, and it's this, pastor-like so many other pastors has so much going on until he/they don't have time for devoting his/their time to so much praying ... I see such prayer time delegated to the leadership of others, and that's ok, but there was a time, before he got so busy with other things, when the man in charge oversaw what we did ...

i think of what Ravenhill said in regards to REVIVAL, "No man has to advertise a fire" ... As unlikely as it seems now in my assignment i truly believe God is slowly but surely manuvering things to the point of eventually putting pastor and ministerial staff weeping on the floor between porch and altar toward their renewed leadership toward his agenda ... The old Moses type leading out of the wilderness days are gone, and the new Joshua type leading into the conquering of the promised land (bringing in the last sheaves) is upon us ... The only thing that's missing is the power of the Holy Ghost (REVIVAL) in which to go forth and conquer, and i don't believe we'll get that until His conditions are re-met - a re-turn to our first love and re-pentance towards doing the first works ...

Lord Jesus, by Your Spirit, i pray that we (especially Your leaders) heed Your counsel to buy Your gold tried in the fire, that we mayest be rich; and white raiment, that we mayest be clothed, and that the shame of our present nakedness do not appear; and anoint our eyes with Your eyesalve, that we mayest see ... Amen

R
Rahman

Bro Strom wrote;
"What we need is one place with a breakthrough."

Bro Daryl wrote;
"It'll only take one person to start the awakening but that one person will have had to intercede through and die to self through 3 of America's main idols (strong men)."


i agree with both as scripture is full of instances where our Lord took one and multiplied his message/vision into many ... i totally concur with Ravenhill's statement of "One man with God is a majority".

If in fact our Lord does what i've been believing He's said/saying to me for so long i truly shall be a witness to both these statements ... And as i've said to many if He proves me live and not Memorex, only He will be able to shut me up from then on! ... :-P

R
RobertW

Hi Rahman,

Brother Robert's phrase "the conditions were met" just screams at me ... I often think what if Church leadership, our pastors/preachers/teachers/under-shepherds, with just even the same intensity as they have for their own agendas, suddenly came to the realization of the following of our Lord's agenda ...

Sunday I spoke on this issue of David numbering Israel. It's not popular to see the implications of that historical event. David 'numbered' the people and the people were in iniquity. Numbers, numbers, numbers. Me, me, me, me, what I have done, I have done, I have done. Where was God in all this? So to in our times. Is it not about how vast the 'kingdoms' of men and their 'ministries' are? Has it not become about how programs are as the 'valiant' men without number can get the job done? What about the pillar of fire that LED the people?

What about seeking God for direction for HIS work? I believe the judgment that fell on the people and David was the expression of God's attitude on our goings on to build ourselves and do 'our' work. David saw it and repented. He built an altar and the FIRE fell. ;-)

B
BenBrockway


RobertW wrote:

Where's the fire? Where's the fire that is kindled from heaven? When David built the altar and filled it at Ornan's threshing floor God answered by FIRE. When Solomon bowed on the brass scaffold on his knees with his hands raised praising the mercy and goodness of God, beseeching Him to remember His promises, the FIRE fell upon the altar and consumed the sacrifice. The fire does not fall when we assert our goodness, it falls when we acknowledge [u]His[/u] goodness.

Why has revival tarried? Could it be because we refuse to say as did that great Prophet Isaiah, "Woe is me for [b][u]I[/b][/u] am undone,[b][u]I[/b][/u] am a man of unclean lips and walk among a people of unclean lips"? Not- God revive this people or God revive someone else. Not God this people is wretched and you know I am righteous. [i]Woe is me for [b][u]I[/b][/u] am undone,[b][u]I[/b][/u] am a man of unclean lips...[/i] FIRST and the people second.

But it started with the leaders. It started when I said "WOE is me for I am undone!!!" Who are we trying to impress with our sinlessness? WOE is me! WOE is me. When the glory of God comes down thats all you can say... WOE is me... WOE is me... WOE is me...

Amen, Mr. Wurtz... Amen! This is a MUST.


**What are everyone's thoughts on each one of us coming together once, twice, three times, or more a year and seeking for this? I think this is a great forum - a great place to meet and discuss, but what if we gathered together for intense prayer, encouragment, and listening to God? Thoughts?

R
RobertW

I think this is a great forum - a great place to meet and discuss, but what if we gathered together for intense prayer, encouragment, and listening to God? Thoughts?

I have been priveledged to be in ministry and prayer meetings with some of the brethren on this site and it has been life changing. The Lord has opened doors for it to happen and it has always been a blessing. As we pray about it the Lord will direct us and guide our steps. He is faithful! Praise His name forever. These men really want to see God move. No better company to be in than that. ;-)

R
RobertW

Raman's:

I'm not judging, just commenting on my observation, and it's this, pastor-like so many other pastors has so much going on until he/they don't have time for devoting his/their time to so much praying ... I see such prayer time delegated to the leadership of others, and that's ok, but there was a time, before he got so busy with other things, when the man in charge oversaw what we did ...

Our church and organization just called a time of "50 Days of Pentecost." We fasted one day a wekk and other things seeking for a move of God. Our pastor tells stories about how Ravenhills Book "Why Revival Terries" brought REVIVAL to the organization in the 1960's. Many ministers came out of that revival that are still in ministry today. We need some of the 'old timers' who have been around 50 years as Andrew's article points out to step up and cry out for a fresh move of God! And were seeing it happen. God is moving in our churches and among our pastors. We have been watching Ray Comfort videos in many of our youth meetings. God is challinging us to rediscover what it means to be saved. God is stirring ministers and the people!

R
Rahman


Doc (Pastor Robert) ya preachin man!!! :-P

i hear many a preacher in lip service talk about the awesome responsibility they have in God's placing them over a portion of His flock, but as my dear ole Mom always says "action speaks louder than words" ... Seems to me that much of the problem in todays Church is that the leadership has forgotten who they truly work for, and this lapse puts us all in danger once our Lord has had enuf and begins reminding ...

Another problem we have in the Body is that just like in politics now-a-days we got a whole lotta baby-boomer men in power, and without proper understanding and restraint that extreme self gratifying generational curse we've all been touched by makes it much easier for us to get to far ahead of God ...

In analogy i see it like so, we want whatever from God like a anytime teller, we want His blessings but we don't want to have to meet Him face to face to obtain them ... But He says no I want you to contine to come before Me, at my Bank, fill our all My paperwork, cross every "t" and dot every "i", you know - meet My full conditions for a withdrawal of power from Me ... But hey we ain't got time for that, we want from God what we want now and lingering before His face just ain't cuttin it, we gotta be movin and shakin it like the other guys and we all know how slow God appears to be, so instead we go to another way to meet our agenda by either bending scripture or just outright rebellion, and so we seek the "loan-shark" if you will (and we all know who he is), and we then proceed to build on those ill gotten borrowed resources until it all begins to come down around our ears when we can't meet the ridiculous interest payments (this works both financially and spiritually) the loan shark demands ...

This is where i think America as a Church and nation has come to ... With
the tumbling down of our false walls, with the loan-shark threathining to break our legs or worse, is what i believe will bring re-actively bring Church leadership and laity on our faces crying out to God for help!!! ... And the most mind blowing thing of this whole scenario is that as soon as we begin in earnest to cry out, asking His forgiveness for branching out into our own agendas with the preaching of another gospel, He'll forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness, and re-set us upon our pure path of first love, first works ...


These are some quotes from your posts that really stand out for me;


Quote:
"I seriously wonder if we realize that it was David's revelation of the enormity of his sin as a leader that ultimately brought on the building of the altar, the purchase of Ornan's threshing floor and the eventual construction of the Temple."

Quote:
"It is here that David gets a revelation of how bad his sin is and how merciful God is. He was the leader and he sinned. he did not cover it up and he did not call it a mistake. He did not hide behind anything- he stepped out and took responsibility for what he had done. He humbled himself as a sinner before God and praised and thanked God for His mercy."


What would happen if todays Church leaders (in America) had a similar realization and subsequent reaction?


Quote;
"Men don't see revival when they look up to heaven and declare their perfection before Him. Men see God move when they say, "Woe is me for I am undone I am a man of unclean lips and walk among a people of unclean lips." It is then when God says- "Who will go for Us?" and it is then that we can declare, "Here am I SEND me." There will never be revival until we see our lost and lowly estate before God. Not just the sinners in the streets and the churches- but US, but ME, MYSELF and I.


Amen ... But right now i think still to many in Church leadership are still self deluded that all their empire building (perspiration) is of God (inspiration), and therefore see themselves as rich and in need of nothing.


Quote;
"In early 2004 our church came together when the Pastor was out of town and began to cry out to God for our wretched estate. I ran an add in the KC Star declaring my repentance and guilt before God. I have the article to this day. In a period of less than 3 weeks we baptized 30 odd people who came to repent before God and openly and publically acknowledge that they has sinned against the Lord. And as soon as the folk came in who 'had no sin' the fire STOPPED. End of story. Lock the door- its OVER. As soon as the game face returned- the fire departed. I'm just keeping it real here."


We have something similar going on in my assignment, whereas it is said much how Holy Spirit seems to really only light us up when our Bishop is away, and then upon his return it's back to the program as usual ... This makes me tremble for our man in charge, and is why i constantly keep him in prayer.


Quote;
"What about seeking God for direction for HIS work? I believe the judgment that fell on the people and David was the expression of God's attitude on our goings on to build ourselves and do 'our' work. David saw it and repented. He built an altar and the FIRE fell."


i think leadership is a very important element in this REVIVAL that i believe is soon to show itself upon us ... God is a God of order and decency, i know even in what i believe to be my calling it does not surpass or surmount that of His annointed, my pastor ... i can come to him with what i believe is a word from our Lord, but that's all i can do except continuously pray that if our communing is in fact of our Lord's plan that He bring it to fruition ...

In the meanwhile i'm praying hard that God will give someone, if not all in leadership, a new Damascus Road experience, for God knows we in the pews surely need pastors with His heart ... Amen

R
Rahman

Bro (Pastor) Robert wrote;
"God is stirring ministers and the people!"

Bro i'm encouraged by what i hear Him doing in you ... Keep bustin!!! :-D

R
RobertW

Hi Rahman,

We have something similar going on in my assignment, whereas it is said much how Holy Spirit seems to really only light us up when our Bishop is away, and then upon his return it's back to the program as usual ... This makes me tremble for our man in charge, and is why i constantly keep him in prayer.

I don't want to be misunderstood here. ;-) Pastor was out for retreat as his wife is very ill and is a precious woman. Maybe the folk put the game face back on afterwards. Either way, I believe it begins with us as leaders. It would be sad though if the only time we could have revival is on off days and special events.

R
RobertW

And as soon as the folk came in who 'had no sin' the fire STOPPED. End of story. Lock the door- its OVER. As soon as the game face returned- the fire departed. I'm just keeping it real here."

It was around this time that the Lord dealt with me and gave me the message here on SI, "The Love We Had at First". Not only will the attitude I'm referring to stop a local revival- it will stop [i]personal revival[/i] also. I give my testimony in part of how arrogance had come in- in my life and I would waver. God was resisting me. I had no grace to stand when He resisted me. The Lord gave me the saying I believe, "[i]If we will walk in humilty in the times of victory- we will have victory. There is no other way. God resisteth the proud- but He WILL give grace unto the humble."[/i] And we need this grace to have this grace wherein we stand and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

B
BenBrockway


RobertW wrote:
I think this is a great forum - a great place to meet and discuss, but what if we gathered together for intense prayer, encouragment, and listening to God? Thoughts?

I have been priveledged to be in ministry and prayer meetings with some of the brethren on this site and it has been life changing. The Lord has opened doors for it to happen and it has always been a blessing. As we pray about it the Lord will direct us and guide our steps. He is faithful! Praise His name forever. These men really want to see God move. No better company to be in than that. ;-)

Praise God! That is good to hear! may there be more times such as you've had!! :-D

P
proudpapa

I was watching We Have Been Taught Not To Discern by Andrew Strom - Part 1 https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/myvideo/photo.php?lid=1516

And so I thought about posting a thread on the 50 year awakenings in the US but before I did I decided to check the search engine to see if a past thread had been started on this subject and I see that it has so I am bumping this thread up. and will paste the Original post by Brother Andrew

////by Andrew_Strom on 2006/11/1 8:54:32

"50-YEAR AWAKENINGS in USA"
-by Andrew Strom.

The First Great Awakening was approx 1741-1743.

Second Great Awakening was roughly 1799 - 1807
-though some say it lasted into the late 1820's and that it linked up with Finney's revivals from the 1820's on.

I think probably Finney's were "in-between" the 2nd and 3rd Awakenings.

I totally agree with those who think that 1857-1860 should be considered the
3rd Great Awakening.

Also 1904-1910 (Wales, Azusa, India, Korea, China, etc) should be considered the 4th Gt Awakening.

And 1947-1955 should be considered the 5th.
(Healing Revival in USA, plus Revivals in Africa, Hebrides, Argentina, etc.)

We have had FIVE GREAT AWAKENINGS - at roughly 50-year intervals every time. We are due for the next one RIGHT NOW.

There is a kind of "Jubilee" cycle of Awakenings in America, going back 250 YEARS. -But this can be lost if we do not press in.

This is very important for us all to grasp.

I don't know of ANY OTHER NATION that has a 50-year
cycle of Revivals like the USA.

But it is possible to lose it (-like Wales did) and if that happens
it will be a DISASTER for this country. We must enter into Revival while this "window" is open.

We need Revival pray-ers!! We need Revival preachers!!

It is URGENT that we do not miss this 50-year window. (For it is now 50 years since the end of the last one!!)

-Andrew Strom.////

G
ginnyrose

Interesting observation, Papa.

As I do the math in my own larger denomination, I see where this has happened as well.

Among my own people it occurred in the early 1900s, then in the forties/fifties. I am ignorant of what happened in the 1800s...

From my observation of what happened in the 50/60s is that we saw a great onslaught of apostasy was well following the revival. It was rapid, relentless. What I believed happened is what Jesus taught in Matthew 12:43-45: When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

What happened among my own people, family is not unusual - it happens everywhere.

A person can never sit back and relax - must always be vigilant.

P
proudpapa

Hi ginnyrose,

RE: ginnyrose wrote ///Among my own people it occurred in the early 1900s, then in the forties/fifties. I am ignorant of what happened in the 1800s...///

I am not sure of whom you are speaking of as your own people I know that you have spoken of being of Anabaptist Heratige?

I Believe there has been a revivle of sorts atleast on a small scale of many coming out of the Old Order groups In Pennsylvania and places through Charity and other like Ministries in the past 15 or 20 years

S
sermonindex

Awesome!!! A six year old thread revived!!! At least something is being revived (cough). This is an interesting concept though and while I feel that we have missed the 50 year cycle (60 years and climbing)...I do not believe God is not limited to our calculations. If enough hungry, dead men will walk into the fire...He will visit them.

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