"REPENT of POLITICAL IDOLATRY!" - by Andrew Strom

REPENT of POLITICAL IDOLATRY!
-by Andrew Strom.

Something I find a little distressing in America is that the Christians
are so often relying on POLITICS to accomplish SPIRITUAL results.
Thus they ally themselves fervently with one particular party and
treat it like "God has won" if that party wins - and "God has lost" if
it doesn't. I almost see this as a kind of BLINDNESS.

The fact is - most of America's problems today are SPIRITUAL
problems that can only be solved by a sweeping move of God's Spirit.
Yet we are relying on Politics and Politicians to accomplish many of
these things?? How bizarre!

How bizarre that we strive and strive to get the "right (worldy) guy"
elected. How bizarre that we treat the President like some kind of
mega-preacher or mega-minister. We put our "hope" in him and
his Political party for all kinds of SPIRITUAL things! What is wrong with us?

I don't know of any other country that puts such hope in worldly
political parties for things that ONLY GOD CAN DO. Is this not a kind
of IDOLATRY??

Yes - there are issues of righteousness to be concerned with - and
it is good to vote. But what is with this OBSESSION with Politics
amongst the Christians? Do we not realize it is a kind of "phony war"?
Imagine if we spent all that time PRAYING instead of STRIVING for
Political victory. We might be actually having a Revival right now!

Can Politics make America truly righteous? NO! Only GOD can do that!

I want to issue a call to all true Christians right now: "REPENT of
trusting in MAN instead of God. REPENT of trusting in Politics to do
things that only God can do. REPENT of striving and striving to get
the "right party" in power - and thinking that will solve this country's SPIRITUAL problems. REPENT of making an IDOL out of any party
or any PRESIDENT. The Presidency does NOT equal GOD's MOVE!
REPENT of putting so much energy and effort into things that WILL
NOT SOLVE the PROBLEM!

If only the Christians of this nation would PRAY instead of running to
POLITICAL ACTIVISM - everything would be different.

What if all of this is a false trust - a false hope - a false gospel? What
if our worship of Republicanism is out and out IDOLATRY??

God help us all.

-Andrew Strom.

A thousand amens brother. Thank you so much for speaking out on this. I only wish more American preachers would do the same.

Yes - there are issues of righteousness to be concerned with - and
it is good to vote. But what is with this OBSESSION with Politics
amongst the Christians? Do we not realize it is a kind of "phony war"?
Imagine if we spent all that time PRAYING instead of STRIVING for
Political victory. We might be actually having a Revival right now!

The very thing that kept me from voting was the fact that so many Christians treat the Republican Party like God's party. Exalting men like God has nothing to do with anything.

so many Christians treat the Republican Party like God's party

Apparently we repented today. ;-)

I'm so very relieved this divisive election is over...I thank God that Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance.

Let's strive to know Jesus' love for each other and obedience to the Father more then ever brethren. Let's seek His government...

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the ,government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Good healthy word from you tonight Andrew. You are a true blessing to us here brother.

MC

Political Question: “When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, will you at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?” Acts 1:6

Answer /Solution/: “…..you shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:and you shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth” Acts 1: 8

Your sis. Mek

America's idol #1- selfish ambition, politics is part of it. We'er (christians) called to seek a city , Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

We are to so closely identify with the Kingdom of God and its principles that the earthly fades by comparison.

Timely observation Bro. Andrew, and right on.

Amen Andrew the battle is in the prayer closet first over our own sin and once the victory is rendered through the blood of Jesus is aptly stated in Ephesians 6:12

For our struggle is [b]not[/b] against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms....

Hebrew 11:13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth.

1 Peter 2:11 Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul.

The AV uses the word pilgrim, which I prefer over the word alien but our home is not here.

Can you imagine if we invested the time and energy we devote to politics solely to Jesus?

I want to issue a call to all true Christians right now: "REPENT of
trusting in MAN instead of God. REPENT of trusting in Politics to do
things that only God can do.

I see it also as a form of 'representative' Christianity. Elect folk to go someplace and be Christians [i]for[/i] us. No need to express our faith ourself- we'll have someone else do it. We'll leave the righteousness of the nation up to the law makers and then we won't have to be on fire for God and be lights in the world.

One word has been ringing in my ears for weeks now and it is the word 'laziness'. Spiritual laziness is killing people. Folk want someone to 'do their Christianity' for them. No need to pray or witness or get a word from God for myself- we've got people we pay to do that for us. Like were under some kind of schoolmaster or something.

Is this new? In no wise. This is what Israel had done when they wanted a King. No need to seek God on an individual level- we'll have the King be the face of our nation. And as the King went- so it seemed the people went. Why? They didn't stoke their own fire. They were just like sheep to a slaughter. No backbone. No resolve- just roll with the flow. If the King serves God we'll do that- if not we'll do what he does. Where are the people who are [i]radically saved[/i]? Those who have given their alliegance to Christ and Christ alone?

Very timely message brother.
I have been guilty of this very thing. I think it has to do with wanting the Republican party to espouse our christian interests and return us to a christian nation. That will make being a christian so much easier on us, being in the majority. What foolishness! What folly to put our trust in man!
As I said I have been guilty of this very thing and found your post very helpful in leading me to repent of my stupidity and cowardness in hiding behind a political party.

Wyatt

Thanks Andrew, this is a timely word.

Politics and new laws and amendments concerning morality are really just a way of treating symptoms while ignoring the disease. You can't change a culture from the top down, it doesn't work. The culture is made up of individuals and each individual brings his/her own dimension to the culture. The way to change the culture is by changed lives. The disease is only cured by Jesus Christ living in the hearts of men and women.

We need revival! Let's pray.

In Christ,

Ron

When one realises that the constitution of the USA reads, 'one nation under God', then you understand the passion.

However, it is iconic to suppose that man pleasing politicians are going to 'lead us into the light'. The're in as much darkness as the people they represent.

America is in a shocking godless mess.

God help us all to get right with God, first and foremost. Then seek God for revival.

It will happen, it must.

God bless.

Can anyone deny that - along with materialism and
selfishness - this is one of the most blatant idolatries of the American church?

Do we trust in God - or Politics?

I can't deny it Andrew - it is absolutely true.

Republican and Democrat are just two wings of the same vulture - the vulture of politics. Both wings just as bad and just as evil, both wings are attached to the same hideous bird.

If we would look at countries like India, China, Iraq we would see that in these countries the Christians have little to no rights within their govenrments yet God is moving in such amazing ways!
Yet here in America it seems we sit back and hope we can elect somone who will do the work for us(evangelize). Or we look to Hollywood to produce films that will win people to Christ, and simply because there is a mention of Christ people fawn over the film, and pastors will be quick to say "take your unsaved loved ones to this movie!"
I believe we have forgotten the Scripture that says, "Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD." Jeremiah 17:5
Brethren we must realize that persecution is coming to this country. Even now a state friendly religious system is being built that will cast out those who hold to the Truth of the Bible, and use it as the foundation of all that is done.
Could it be that the popular movements within the religious realm in our nation are setting the stage for something like the Three Self Church of China?
Could it also be that this could be the very stream needed to feed the rivers of revival?
This is by no means a call to be alarmed or fearful, but instead to storm the throne of mercy, and to be steadfast in our Lord regardless of cost! To cry out in behalf of the lost, and those who will be caught up in the deception that is creeping in.
Prayer is our only recourse!!!
We've had it too good for too long while others have had nothing at all.

AMEN AMEN AMEN
If only the Christians of this nation would PRAY instead of running to
POLITICAL ACTIVISM - everything would be different.
Your words are true brother.
John The Baptist...to the Religious/Political Establishment of his day.

O generation of vipers.

this is one of the most blatant idolatries of the American church

It is also one of the most divisive...Christians spitting worldy words on each other over conservative and liberal issues.

And then some claim that persecution will solve this...if we can't forgive one another in Christ...what makes us think we can forgive our enemies that really want to destroy us?

The election is over...but the vitriol and poison is perhaps just beginning...2 years of vengeful politicking for the presidential 08 elction. I hold no hope that our new leaders will lead...all are decadent and self absorbed while the nation falls apart and the world descends into war.

But I do hold hope for the body of Christ. Not because we have moral fiber or character...but because we are given the Spirit of God that raised Christ Jesus from the dead.

It will take a letting go of our moral causes though...especially the righteous ones. Feeding the poor or saving unborn children, or even evangelizing the lost are all idols without Christ. Therefore we must not return to traditional values or our godly heritage...these noble causes can actually kill our love for one another.

"..you...labored for My name's sake and have not become weary. Nevertheless....

We must not return to a Godly America...We must return to our first love. And we must grab each other by the lapels and sleeves and bring each other along...love is not didactic...it is raptourous. It does more then instruct...it embraces. This holiness tradition of pointing out flaws in one another is not biblical accountability...caring for each others burdens is biblical accountability. We are all Ted Haggards hiding our sins because we know there is no true accountability in the church...only reputation but no accountability between brothers.

Well, in the case of politics, this is the choice I see before us...On one hand we can get caught up in the next two years of revenge, blaming, and spite... letting the window of revival pass us by forever or...

...we can give America over to God's providence through prayer and turn our passions to his people, His nation of believers throughout the world.

"'Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love.

'Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place - unless you repent."

See you in the spiritual trenches and on the battlefield brothers...let's find the devil insurgent in our hearts and take back the territory for God's glory.

MC

Mike's:

We must not return to a Godly America...We must return to our first love. And we must grab each other by the lapels and sleeves and bring each other along...love is not didactic...it is raptourous. It does more then instruct...it embraces. This holiness tradition of pointing out flaws in one another is not biblical accountability...caring for each others burdens is biblical accountability. We are all Ted Haggards hiding our sins because we know there is no true accountability in the church...only reputation but no accountability between brothers.

This is one of the most sobering statements I have read in a long time. Funny how there is so much emphasis on 'values', 'family', etc. etc. and so little on genuine relationship with Christ and genuine fellowship between believers. Christianity is not a political party, it is the expression of the Body of Christ with Him rightly at the head.

I think Andrew is right. And if I might add, there is no way we will vote our way into revival.

I even wonder sometimes if we have gone overboard
in the worship of "family values" - as though this is a replacement for Christianity.

I mean, our biggest program is "Focus on the FAMILY".

I personally LOVE my family and have 6 children!!
But could there not be a bizarre "IDOLATRY" in all this? Is it not excessive - our EMPHASIS on it?

-Andrew.

Bro Strom you wrote;
"I almost see this as a kind of BLINDNESS."

i note this only because it struck me funny to read "I almost see" in reference to "blindness" in the same sentence ... But it also reminded me of Paul's words that we all on this side of glory "see thru a glass darkly" ... But bless God it doesn't stop some of us from still groping in this shadow to get even closer to His marvelous light.

Bro Strom you wrote;
"How bizarre that we strive and strive to get the "right (worldy) guy" elected. How bizarre that we treat the President like some kind of mega-preacher or mega-minister. We put our "hope" in him and his Political party for all kinds of SPIRITUAL things! What is wrong with us?

Yes - there are issues of righteousness to be concerned with - and it is good to vote. But what is with this OBSESSION with Politics amongst the Christians?"

i'm 56, and a baby-boomer, a really huge part of the American voting population now, many of us Christian's who now realize the folly of our youth, as well as the folly of our Christian parent's youth ... i may be wrong but i do believe it was Holy Spirit who once impressed upon my mind the question of "where were our parents generation when back in the 60's God was being legislated out of everything"?

In my study of the history of REVIVAL in America, i believe it was bro Orr who pointed out that the REVIVAL of the early 50's began but sputtered badly due to the financial booming of the heady times after WWII ... In fact it was because of this that
the baby-boom even happened, to say nothing of the housing boom, etc ... i find it ironic that seemingly many a saint at that time must have concidered being involved in the political process as something a saint should'nt do, thus all the unGodly Supreme Court decisions we have as laws now, but it sure didn't stop most of our parents from becoming completely immersed in the materialism (the Baal of American idolotry) of that time ... Funny how we saints pick our poisons ... It amazes me how scripture tells us that God allows leaders and governments to our benefit, and that we should subject ourselves under them as long as it does not compromise our subjection under Him, and He has placed us in America with a democratic system to which we can hold our canditates feet to the fire and elect them via something as simple as a vote, AND even if we got issues with parties we can even do so as an Independent ...

Where were our Christain parents then? ... I believe the greater part of white saints were to busy making money, and the greater part of black saints all wraped up in the Civil Rights movement for anyone to be in tune to what the devil was up to via the likes of Madelaine Murray O'Hare, Roe vs Wade, etc ... I know many don't agree, but by the simple power of a vote I believe saints back then could have retarded evil and preserved America a lot better than where it is now ... i think this realization is what prompted Jerry Falwell's Moral Majority (which i was a part of) back in the 80's right on up to Dobson's Focus On The Family, etc ... But in spite of this 4th quarter rally now we're dealing with a rancid side of beef, and attempting to politically turn back the spoilage ... As misguided as it may be, and as manipulated by Karl Rove as some saints may be, i think the Christian activity in politics these days is partly due to an awakening that to just sit back and let things go by the way is why we're in a lot of the deep doo-doo we're in, and now the pendulum has swung way over to the other side from no political activity to hyper activity ... As an aside i find it so funny that when the Godly wasn't involved in the political/electoral process the unGodly were cool, but man that ain't the case now ... Now we're being accused of attempting to hijack the country, because they've enjoyed such unchallenged past ease in doing so ...

Bro Strom you wrote;
"If only the Christians of this nation would PRAY instead of running to POLITICAL ACTIVISM - everything would be different."

See my question is why can't we do both? ... Scripture says "faith without works is dead", as it also says, "Acknowledge the Lord in all thy ways" ... How come we can't pray for guidance in our vote, to vote as unto the Lord in doing what's best for the nation even tho others don't know it's best? ... But instead it seems to be the plight of human nature (which should'nt be the case with Christians) to have to opt for one or the other, and we live in a time and generations where we're so unreliant on God anymore that we think if we don't do it God won't (or worse yet can't) ...

As you said, "God help us all", and i know He is, right now, even tho it doesn't appear to be so, because we're His, He loves us, we're called according to His purpose, thereby ALL THINGS work together to our good, even our major faux-pas!

THANK YOU JESUS!!!

But could there not be a bizarre "IDOLATRY" in all this? Is it not excessive - our EMPHASIS on it?

I think sometimes it can be a distraction. I have 6 kids also (5 teens) and need the Lord daily to help me. But, I think it has to begin with living upright before the Lord and walking in the Spirit. We get the emphasis off on men's ministries and women's ministries and family and everything else except God. Just my observation. I'm persuaded to believe if we get our spiritual act together the family may well follow.

I even wonder sometimes if we have gone overboard
in the worship of "family values" - as though this is a replacement for Christianity.

I mean, our biggest program is "Focus on the FAMILY".

I personally LOVE my family and have 6 children!!
But could there not be a bizarre "IDOLATRY" in all this? Is it not excessive - our EMPHASIS on it?

-Andrew.

Yes, I see "family idolatry" as a huge problem among believers today. I see it all the time. Family first and Jesus second is the norm for christians in America. Very few people are will to forsake family for Jesus and service for His Kingdom.

[i]Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.[/i]

[b]Jesus is a true Bridegroom; this is His very nature. That is why He is not satisfied when we simply set ourselves under His dominion and give Him slavish obedience. He wants more - He wants our heart, our very hearts blood. As the Bridegroom, He asks: "How much am I worth to you? How much can you sacrifice for Me? Can you give Me your beloved children? Can you give Me father and mother and friends? Can you give Me your home and your native land out of love if I ask for these? Will you go anywhere I call you to serve, and lead to Me the souls for which I hunger? Can you sacrifice your honor, your strength, your longing to be loved, your deepest secret wishes for Me?"

He who has loved us so much wants to possess us completely, with everything we are and have. Jesus gave Himself wholly and completely for us. Now His love is yearning for us to surrender ourselves and everything that we are to Him, so that He can really be our "first love". So long as our love for Him is a divided love, so long as our heart is bound to family, possessions, or the like, He will not count our love to be genuine. Divided love is of so little value to Him that He will not enter into a bond of love with such a soul, for this bond presupposes a full mutual love. Because our love is so precious to Jesus, because He yearns for our love, He waits for our uncompromising commitment.

Whenever there are two alternatives, true love always chooses Jesus. If, for example, Jesus calls someone into the mission-field, then for Jesus' sake he has to depart from his native land, often leaving his family behind or being separated from his wife for a while. The love for these things has to take second place. Jesus can be our true love, our first love, only if this love takes priority over all others only if, whenever we are faced with the choice between Jesus or people and things, we choose Him. Jesus has the right to make such a claim upon our love, because there is no one like Him. No one is so full of glory, so full of royal beauty and powerful love as Jesus. His love is so overwhelming, so tender so intimate, so fiery and so strong. No human love could ever be compared with it. No one loves so exclusively, so faithfully and with such loving care. No one exists so exclusively for us as Jesus. Jesus knows what He can bestow with His love. He knows how happy He can make a human soul. That is why He has a thousand times more right than an earthly bridegroom to say, "Give Me everything-your whole love-your first love, for which you would leave earthly things behind, just as a bride would put aside all her other desires and would give up home and fatherland."....Jesus is waiting for our love. As important as our sacrifices and our obedience to the commandments are for God (the rich young ruler sacrificed, and kept the commandments), they are not enough. Sacrifices and obedience alone do not yield the "eternal, divine life". True love for Jesus is what will bring you "eternal, divine life" of which you seek. This love of Jesus leads us to keep His commandments joyfully, which are His wishes for us. It will lead us to bring Him many gifts, and to offer Him sacrifices-but in a different spirit. In the spirit of true love for Christ Jesus the Lamb of God.
"My All For Him" by Basilea Schlink
[/b]

Greetings all.

Brother Andrew, in reading your article the thought occurs to me that we may be creating a false dichotomy here. I'd like to explain why if I may.

To start, in saying that we are...

...relying on POLITICS to accomplish SPIRITUAL results.

...I wonder if this is not the same as saying: [i]politics is not spiritual[/i]?

If so, then I disagree and here's why:

I believe that [b]all of life[/b] is meant to be [i]spiritual[/i], from walking the dog, to our vocations, to worship. If this were not so, then how could He that is Spirit have entered into life with us and walked among us? And in so doing, did He not hallow the experience and nature of it?

I believe that when God re-creates our spirits with new Life, He intends for us to take that new Life into the dead places of this world and make them spiritually alive - even the dead place of politics.

For instance, as you mentioned here

How bizarre that we strive and strive to get the "right (worldy) guy" elected.

I agree! Yet, I think [b]instead[/b] we should strive to get the [b]righteous[/b] and [b]godly[/b] man elected! I think that, instead of only trying to influnce the dead places of our culture with the spiritually dead, [b]we[/b] who are alive unto God should go and take our godly Life to them! Instead of only relying on a certain political party to bring righteousness to our land [b]we[/b] ought to bring righteousness to them.

What, has God called us to be [b]overcomers[/b] of this world - except in politics?

What, is it possible to have victory over sin, [b]only if that victorious life is never tested in the crucible of the lies and treachery of the world of politics[/b]? If so, how do we know it was victory indeed?

No brothers and sisters, the same Life that enables the overcomers of the undeground Church to live in Life and victory in the places of death and cruel hate surely must be available to us to live in the same places in the free west, even if they be in politics.

Ahh but, the Gospel advances elsewhere through the blood of the Martyrs.

Who knows, maybe some would be willing to lay down their political life for the sake of the Gospel also.

Yes - but why then do so many Christians spend so much time and effort on Political striving? Why do all their efforts and hope for the country start to revolve around this? Why do they act like Politics is going to somehow "save" the nation? -Isn't that supposed to be what GOD ALONE can do??

-I actually believe that Politics is becoming like a "substitute" (ie. "false") gospel and a false hope that consumes massive amounts of effort and dollars. Many "trust" it to deliver us. It is sick and we need to REPENT of this IDOLATRY.

-Andrew.

ChrisJD,

Perhaps there needs to be clarification in the order or sequence of events. I do not believe that politics are void of a spiritual dimension. Afterall, God influences kings througout the bible. The problem is that politics are a fruit, and not the root of the spiritual issue.

A mad dog looks into a pond and upon seeing it's own reflection, begins to bark and growl. Then it boldly charges into the water to challenge it's enemy and is quickly victorious in dissapating the image. Yet as soon as the dog stops thrashing and splashing, that persistent reflection always reappears. The excited beast does not realize the danger it sees is it's own face...and that the reflection that frightens it will not change untill the reality within changes.

I think instead we should strive to get the righteous and godly man elected!

How can we do that when we ourselves are not righteous? Aren't the leaders a mirror of the land? Who Was Ted Haggard but a Godly leader for the church! And yet we expect a secular process to go better! Obviously we aren't very good at picking Godly men...although we do seem capable of gravitating to mirrors of our own spiritual conditions.

Instead of only relying on a certain political party to bring righteousness to our land we ought to bring righteousness to them

Indeed, and I think this is akin to what people here are saying.

I think it's highly significant that the only Christian segment in America that had true Christlike impact on the nation this year doesn't even vote...the Amish. They were a light in the darkness...light does not need politics to shine.

The church is so weak with spiritual decay that the people will only elect decadent men and women on both sides of the spectrum. In a democracy the leaders can't be too much greater then the voters...we can't produce a leader with self-discipline when we ourselves want more of the public treasury. We can't elect a leader of moral direction when we ourselves are a people of moral confusion and laziness.

This is why I believe our churches need to turn from their democratic and republican political headquarters and back to their own houses...their own rampant extra-marrital affairs, their own profiteering abuse of tax exemption, their own unchrist-like materialism, their own special interest, their own rebellion.

Christians in this country are losing their connection to the head..their hypocrasy is bringing reproach upon all they vote for. Even in my own small sphere of Christian friends, here is increasing divorce, affairs, godless ambitions. And then there's me....whitewashed enough to get along in church.

At the risk of sounding dramatic I believe it may truly be that we are on the verge of losing our nation...the chains of bondage are ready for lady liberty. Certainly her vulnerability within and without is of great concern...she staggers like a drunk ready to topple, drunk on her own self-excesses.

In a world of relevancies she indugles in irrelevance... pleasures and vainglory.

The political process is as void of power to fix this situation as our own defiled walks with God are. It is this dire context that leads me to say...unless the church repents of her drunken adulterous love affair with this world and sets God's glory above her own...what does it matter that we try to elect a godly symbolic man into the government. Who would vote for such a man? Who would follow him after he is elected? Certainly not the present church.

Jesus Christ is such a man, and the church pays only lip service to hm...he is Lord and yet no one follows him. What more loyalty could a mere elected official expect?

It is not our leaders that have failed us...we have failed God. We have voted in the spiritual realm with our lives and hearts...we have told God who we really want to run our lives. Let's instead vote for Jesus again...he never break his promises, but is the amen to all of God's propositions.

Blessings from the mad dog of Ohio,

MC

Hi brother Mike.

Some great points you brought up here. The [i]Mad Dog[/i] was a powerfull illustration. Point taken about our need for personal revival also.

But you mentioned

I do not believe that politics are void of a spiritual dimension.

I think this is part of the issue here: the fact that we do not see non-ecclesiastical areas of life as being [b]wholly spiritual[/b] to the degree that we live by the Spirit in them. This seems wrong.

If we live by the Spirit, then [b] all of life [/b] is spiritual, isn't it? Well, if politics are powerless to change our current ills and has become corrupt, is it because [b]we[/b] who are the channels of God's power in the earth have removed ourselves from it? I'm not sure that it is only becuase we have become so weak ourselves. Perhaps it has been both together.

I think of the scripture that says

[b][color=000000]When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.[/color][/b]

I think also of the Apostle's question:

Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Also, you mentioned

Jesus Christ is such a man, and the church pays only lip service to hm...he is Lord and yet no one follows him. What more loyalty could a mere elected official expect?

But brother, are there [b]none[/b] godly among us? Are there [b]none[/b] among us that could step forward to lead us?

When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.

Amen Chris. I think this is the verse we are both looking at when discussing this whole issue of politics. Why must we mourn constantly? Are there none righteous?

But brother, are there none godly among us? Are there none among us that could step forward to lead us?

I could not say with certainty...I know there are plenty more closer then I. But are there any equal to the task? President Bush is as unwavering a man as I've seen but when a thousand cameras are turned on him he falls short of every one's measurement. Even now that I've mentioned his name there are some readers who are ripping their garments in protest...

Maybe that's the rub brother. Our ultimate hypocrasy is that we who are mere sinful men, full of skeletons in our closets, demand that a pure champion emerge from our ranks. We who lust are shocked at the affairs of others..we who covet vainglory are appalled at selfish ambition in the public arena. We want our pastors and our presidents to be all that we will not be.

In the end..and this is a personal note...I must confess political dissilusionment here. Not that having your illusions stripped is such a bad thing, but I need to admit it has shaped my beliefs lately. I suppose that Jeremiah and Lamentations were spiritual books also expressing political dissilusionment. I imagine that the writer who described David's scheme to have Bathsheba's husband killed, was conveying some cynicism towards government...even though the subject matter was the beloved king David himself.

I am tired of waiting for the godly man. I have lived through countless churches destroyed because of affairs at the top...not to mention a few businesses. I have seen how money universally inflates even the most spiritually rooted leader like vinegar touching baking powder. Men are mere clay.

And even if we find this godly titan, this statistical abnormality from among our fallen ranks, and vote him into office, it may be that he is still overwhelmed by the psunami. We are witnessing the emergence of circumstances with strategic complications that no mere man can figue out anyways. Around the world and domestically there are hateful clouds swirling together to form a global 'perfect storm'...what mere man can stop it?

My own heart tells me to hunker down together for this storm. There is no avoiding it, but there is the love of God shared in our hearts to encourage us during it's course. Instead of looking for great men to lead us, we need sorrowful men to halt us in the greatest outcry of repentence this century has ever seen. We can not triumph through our virtue in this late hour...I believe we have forfieted that avenue before a scandalized world. Yet God still offers us mercy...mercy triumps over judgement for the humble man. Surrender and we will live.

Laying all my cards out on the table, I hold no hope for a champion to light the way...but if we could find a humble man, a sorrowful and broken man...and follow his example...we would still have a lampstand in the church afterall, even if all is dark around us.

God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea; Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof.

Blessings brother,

MC

Ambassador (websters) --A representative of a sovereign or state at a Foreign court.

Aren't we called to be ambassadors of God?
Isn't heaven our home?
Don't we look forward to a new heavens and a new earth?
Do we look for a heavenly city who builder and maker is God?
Do we confess that we are pilgrams and strangers here?

I'm for american leaders who are Ambassadors for God, but all I see in american politics is self serving individuals with no real adgenda to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. Compromise is thier highway, while christians have been called to a highway called holiness. Brother Andrew is right. If we all would put as much time and moneys into the work of the Lord through prayer and support in time, helps, and acts of mercy we probably would be experiencing a national revival. I personally don't believe we will experience a "National" revival, I some who disagree. I do however believe that america will experience localized pockets of revival, but it may happen at one city and yet the city 50 miles to the north may not have anything (just an example). That's what I mean by localized. The judgement of God has already been put into place.

Brother Mike wrote in another thread about the relationship we have here at SI. This particular thread seems to point to the fact that we are growing and seeing a little more clearly.

Without this growth the unity of Christ cannot be realized amongst the believers. Politics is one means by which Satan foments divisiveness amongst the brethren...

In Christ
Jeff

Yes Brother Andrew has stated the truth that is going on in this Nation. The people are wanting a change an they are getting one. People are seeking happiness in politics not seeking it in GOD where we as a church as gotten way off. We need to be seeking God that will bring happiness having a realionship in PRAYER. :-?

hi, i've written a response to this article,but i'm not very good at computer stuff and i accidentally
put it in a new thread called "political idolatry" i would type it again but it would take me too long. does anyone know how to transfer it to the right thread? :-( bonni

Dear brothers and sisters,

During and after my devotions this morning, the thought occured to me that I should take the opportunity to clarify things I expressed in an earlier post in response to the article by brother Andrew in this thread.

I would like to make it clear that I wholly agree with the notion that placing trust in political institutions, persons, or any other earthly form or means of governance and the promotion of the common good of mankind, can be, or can lead to, an expression of idolatry. I would also encourage warnings given against such, including the one given in this thread by brother Andrew.

So, anything that I expressed before should be understood with that in mind.

Thank you brothers and sisters,

Christopher Joel Dandrow

ChrisJD,

No worries! We know where you're coming from bro and in Whom your faith is placed...we were just figuring things out together.

Blessings,

MC

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but Dr. James Dobson seems to fit the mold that this writer has cast...

[b][color=CC0033]NOTE: This Post is by Bonni - who doesn't know how to cut and paste yet so i did it for her.[/color][/b]

i appreciate this article,i have had these same thoughts.it makes me think of the woman riding on the beast's back in rev.the false church so entertwined with politics.

God is the one who sets up kingdoms and He brings them down. Jesus said to pilate " you would have no power over me except it were given to you from above. God has given satan power or "permission if
you will" to give the kingdoms of this world to whomever he chooses, God in His sovereinty can use satan as a tool to bring about His divine will.
the bible says that satan tempted Christ with this offer.

God told us to pray for our leaders, but He never said we had a right to life,liberty,and the pursuit of happiness.

God will...glorify His name regardless of whether pilate, nebuchanezzer,or the antichrist is in power. we are to pray...like daniel...like Jesus!

soon God will come and the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of our Lord,and He shall reign forever and ever.amen!

Saints, our times coming!

bonni

_________________
many preach Christ,but not many live Christ,that will be my aim - robert c chapman

Sister Bonni wrote:

God told us to pray for our leaders, but He never said we had a right to life,liberty,and the pursuit of happiness.

1Tim. 2:1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.

This is the only Scripture that I have found in which we are encouraged to pray for the kings and all who are in authority...

But what does Paul say what we should pray for? "that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence."

I did a word search and did not find one instance where Jesus prays for the authorities. He always prayed in a way that all men would repent. He prayed for those who would believe in Him. He encourage the believers to pray that they would not be harmed by evil. He warned the believers that the world would persecute you. He exhorted the believers to pray for those who would persecute you.

Whether it is Jesus or Paul, the emphasis of prayer is to find peace and godliness.

James 3:18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

Heb. 12:14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:

Col. 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful.

But what are we warned of?

1Th. 5:3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

Matt. 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,

Matt. 26:53 Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels?

We will never find peace in a worldly government. It is Scripturally impossible.

Gen. 3:15 \tAnd I will put enmity
\tBetween you and the woman,
\tAnd between your seed and her Seed;
\tHe shall bruise your head,
\tAnd you shall bruise His heel.”

In Christ
Jeff

Sis Bonni wrote;
"God told us to pray for our leaders, but He never said we had a right to life,liberty,and the pursuit of happiness."

i think we do have such God given rights, but in which direction and admonition do we seek? ...

[b]SEEKING SATAN -[/b]

Life - John.12: 25 - He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Liberty - Prov.14:12 - There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Happiness - Mark.8:36 - For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

OR

[b]SEEKING CHRIST -[/b]

Life - John.10:10 - I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. (and i'm talking strictly spiritual here and not material prosperity)

Liberty - John.8:36 - If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Happiness - 1Pet.314 - But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

Bro Jeff you wrote;
"This is the only Scripture that I have found in which we are encouraged to pray for the kings and all who are in authority..."

Are you saying that because it's only mentioned once that somehow it has less validy or weight of scriptural subjects that appear more often?

i ask only because 2Tim.3:16 says: ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness ...

Which means to me that even if only ststed once, Holy Spirit breathed it into the Bible writer for a reason, perhaps in this case an "instruction in righteousness" ...

With this in mind i have a tendency to agree with the following;

PRAYING FOR OUR GOVERNMENT LEADERS
http://www.abetterhope.com/prayer/leaders.html

With this, especially in regards America and it's political system, i find the following scripture most important, especially in regards the vote;

Let every soul be in subjection to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those who exist are ordained by God. Therefore he who resists the authority, withstands the ordinance of God; and those who withstand will receive to themselves judgment. For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. Do you desire to have no fear of the authority? Do that which is good, and you will have praise from the same, for he is a servant of God to you for good. But if you do that which is evil, be afraid, for he doesn't bear the sword in vain; for he is a minister of God, an avenger for wrath to him who does evil. Therefore you need to be in subjection, not only because of the wrath, but also for conscience' sake. For this reason you also pay taxes, for they are ministers of God's service, attending continually on this very thing - Romans 13:1-6

With all of the ills of America, i'd personally still rather be here than anywhere else ... As i also think that if so many of us saints in America weren't so self centered, guised in our spiritually being above it all politically but just as materially grubbing as the next guy, perhaps America wouldn't be as ill as she is now ... Up until Pres Bush it seems that not only did a lot of saints not even concider the power of our vote as Christians, but a whole lot of us were'nt even praying in regards America's leadership plight ... i know i wasn't, until (as i believe) Holy Spirit woke me up to "cause and effect" ... As in America the political and economic entity is about to be really adversly "affected" not due to the mechanations of the unGodly, but "cause" of the spiritual stupor and laxity of the Godly within ...

Bro. Jeff you wrote;
"But what does Paul say what we should pray for? "that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence."

i don't believe what you've quoted is what Paul said we are to pray for, but rather if we hold up our governmental leaders (which Romans calls His ministers of service to us) then we can/may have "a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence" under that government oversight ...

Over the past 50 years in America things have societally progressively gotten worse ... In a nation back then whose claiming of Christ/Christianity was even higher by percentage than now, whose fault is our present? ... i personally think the fault lies at the doorstep of The Church, because apparently our light wasn't shinning as it should and our salt not savory enough ... Why? ... Because we we're quick to reject any participation and input politically because we were too enthralled in dashing around after the material ... Then when unGodliness prevails we're quick to form religious committes in comdemnation of what the nation has become, while stoning those whom God has commited to point the finger back at ourselves ... We're kinda like Adam and Eve, blaming the nation/government/economy God put us in as to why we've become poor, blind, and naked ... There is a very good reason why "judgment begins first in the house of our Lord" ...

We're supposed to know better ... :-(