Islam is Satan Worship

Jesus Christ or Islam?

Consider a closer look, I beg you to even copy this, and paste it into a WORD document to save and read a few times, to also keep available for reference, even further investigation if needed.

“This exposure often motivates Christians to make the extra effort that it takes to bring the good news to Muslims. There is an attitude in Christian circles that Muslims may be worshipping the same God as Christians so it would be better just to leave them alone. This paper argues that the god of the Quran is not the God of the Bible. The teachings of Islam hurt the lives of its followers. Islam is like a stale, moldy crust of bread. Following Jesus is like a fresh, warm loaf right out of the oven. Christians must see that what they offer Muslims is wonderful and life-giving for them. Also to awaken the Christian scholarly community to the radical differences between Islam and Christianity. Too many scholars try every possible means to demonstrate common ground between Islam and Christianity. Committed Christian scholars need to honestly present the truth about differences between the fundamental teachings of both faiths.” Ex-muslim scholar Dr. Mark A. Gabriel

Did you know in the Koran (Qu’ran) in Surah Allah is called the greatest deceiver?
The Qu’ran teaches outright that Allah is capable of lying and deceiving people. In fact, one of the titles which the Quran ascribes to Allah is khayru al-makireen, that Allah is "the best deceiver / schemer / conniver" ( Surah 3:54; 8:30).
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Do you know who the father of all lies is? (John 8:44)The Bible identifies him as Satan. He has these people bound in a hopeless religion, many with hard hearts, thinking that he’s the creator, and they can earn his favor…

“And when those who disbelieve plot against thee [O Mohammed] to wound thee fatally, or to kill thee or to drive thee forth; they plot, but Allah [also] plotteth; and Allah is the best of plotters”(Surat Al-Anfal 8:30)

“Fight them and Allah will torture (literal translation) them by your hands, and disgrace them, help you [to victory] over them, “(Surat Al-Tawbah 9;14)

“So, when you meet (in fight—Jihad in Allah’s Cause) those who disbelieve, smite (their) necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives).” (Surah 47:4)

“O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you; and know that Allah is with those who are Al-Muttaqun (the pious)” (Surah 9:123).

The Quran also speaks of the use of terror as a strategy of war. Muslims were told prepare themselves with the greatest possible military might so that they could cause terror among their enemies.

“Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom you may not know, but whom Allah knows” (Surah 8:59–60).

Through the Quran, Allah commanded Muhammad to kill large numbers of those he had defeated before taking prisoners, which would intimidate the people of the area.

“It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land” (Surah 8:67).

The Quran also used the threat of terrorism (in the form of mutilation) in an effort to persuade Christians and Jews to convert to Islam. This happens constantly in Darfur, and other nations where Islam is advancing. It is not quite comparable to the missionary practices Christians follow. This Following quote is from The Noble Quran in English, which uses comments in parentheses to explain the Arabic meanings of the text.

“O you who have been given the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Believe in what We have revealed (to Muhammad) confirming what is (already) with you, before We efface faces (by making them like the back of necks; without nose, mouth, eyes) and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers. And the commandment of Allah is always executed” (Surah 4:47).

When fighting Christians, the Quran says to punish them severely so they will leave their homes and be dispersed, as to be terrorized into submission

“So if you gain mastery over them in war, punish them severely in order to disperse those who are behind them, so that they may learn a lesson” (Surah 8:57)

Is Allah the same GOD as the HOLY Bible? Not according either side, YaHWeY loves sinners “…for GOD so loved the world…” (John 3:16) but hates sin. Allah Hates sinners "Allah does not like anyone who is a betrayer, a sinner." (Surah 4:107, 2:276, 42:40…)

Is Islam a religion of peace? Not according to the Qu’ran after Abrogation, which is when verses are no longer applicable because Allah changed his mind, so verses can only be used to deceive [which is a fundamental obligation justified under strict interpretation of the Qu’ran.

“Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Evil and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah hears and knows all things.” (Surah 2:256). This verse says, “You can’t force anybody to change their religion. The right way should be obvious.”

Other verses in the Quran say that Christians and Jews will be accepted by God if they practice their own religion. “If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side.” [10] (Surah 5:66).

People who say Islam is a religion of peace point to these verses. However, these verses were a part of the early revelations Muhammad received regarding those who rejected Islam. Muhammad was presenting a peaceful religion at this time because Muhammad had only a few followers, and they were all vulnerable, but Islam didn’t stay weak.

The Aggressive Years. Muhammad and his followers were persecuted in Mecca, so they went to Medina. Muhammad again attempted to persuade people with words. This lasted for about a year. Then Muhammad launched a new strategy based on power. He declared jihad (holy war) with the goal of converting nonbelievers to Islam by the sword. One of his new revelations stated:

“Kill the Mushrikun [unbelieving in Allah] wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush.” (Surah 9:5).

This “verse of the sword,” as it is now known, contradicted earlier revelations such as Surah 2:256 above.

Another later revelation declared a similar judgment against Christians and Jews.

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e., worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.” (Surah 8:39).

Muhammad preached this new philosophy until his death. In one of his last sermons he declared:

”After today there will no longer be two religions existing in Arabia any more. I descended by Allah with the sword in my hand and my wealth will come from the shadow of my sword. And the one who will disagree with me will be humiliated and persecuted.” [hadith of Al-Bukhari]

back to Abrogation. How does Islam “Qu’ranically” (as opposed to Biblically) deal with contradictions between earlier revelations and later revelations?

“Whatever a Verse (revelation) Allah abrogates or causes to be forgotten, Allah will bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things?” (Surah 2:106)
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Many would think that winning them with good works is an effective ministry, rather then reasoning with them logically / Biblically. Yet Muslims are taught that when their enemies serve them (hospitals / disaster relief) it is because Allah has compelled the heathens against their will to serve muslims because of their devoutness. Even more of a reason to take GOD at HIS WORD, “…faith comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD of GOD...” (Romans 10:17)

Here is a great article that is relevant http://www.calvarypo.org/pages/hands/0363.html

We can not win the war against Islam unless we surrender our lives to Jesus Christ, and follow HIM. Because the WORD says fight evil with good. But the good we need to fight evil with is not as some carnal men standing on golden pulpits would portray it, it is not a “quiet love” that is needed, this unbiblical Christianity the last few generations of “fathers” have pedaled, stands proudly in contrast to The WORD (Proverbs 27:5). To love as we would want to be loved, is to be reached, reasoned with, confronted by unwavering truth…like Jesus Christ does. We can not convert, save, or coerce anyone into becoming a genuine Christian. That is a work of GOD alone. But HE is with us, and our Father can help us to walk as HE walked and be HIS hands and feet. As we love HIM because HE first loved us, it is HIS love in us that is evident to all (2Cor2:16) With eyes turned truly toward HIM, lovingkindness leads to repentance. HE is the living GOD who is not willing that any perish. What can man do to us? (Isaiah 8:13) These threats or passing sufferings can not compare to what awaits us in HIS presence forever. Why not win eternal friends? Stand in HIS strength, it’s HIS faith, not Abraham’s, that moves mountains, and gives men second birth. “A man is no fool to give up what he can not keep to gain what he can not loose.” Pray for the courageous, selfless love of Jesus Christ to become your own. We overcome by HIS blood, Martyr (witness) not loving our lives to death (Revelation 12:11). HIS glory is better shown in one laying down his life, not building earthy kingdoms or even “ministries” with thousands of ears to tickle, or tithes received.

I see your point, but most people just want to ignore them, and hope they'll go away because GOD won't let them destroy Israel.

If a muslim asks me why I believe in Jesus I will tell him.

I had no idea how many verses were so clear in the Qu'ran.

Hello friend,
I like I said, want the saints to be stirred to share actively, which when you see the seriousness of the bondage they are under in this religion, we should be moved with compassion to cry, fast pray, be informed. To let the LORD use us as vessels of honor. I sited many Qu'ranic passages that if with real concern and the love of Jesus, are welded to draw the light of the WORD through the scriptures could snap of these chains.LORD help us.

This is good stuff, I have an audio sermon from Britt Merek that is really good...do you want it?

Dr. James MacDonald (walk in the WORD) gave a very good sermon on it...could you get that?

An awsome site is www.markagabriel.org
Thanks Quinn

brethren
all this is very timely. yesterday i was talking with a lady on my job who is muslim concerning her faith and explaining to her the need for Christ as saviour. by His grace i showed her that allah and God are not the same.this is some much needed information which i shall share with her. she said something about getting me a koran in the hopes that i might convert...of course i told her i'd do no such thing. it goes without saying that anyone who on the last day has not received the gospel of grace will be cast into the lake of fire from which there is no return. she seemed amazed by my tenacity but who would not be unrelenting if the alternative is a punishment so dire...pray God's grace at this time that He would move and say and do what needs to be done.

at first she didn't seem too bothered but yesterday i feel she was pricked because she did start looking up some things to try and prove Islam was real and cited some papers and articles which God gave me grace enough to refute. the main thing was that the paracleet (sp) which was spoken of in the gospels she said was mohammed. Mohammed came 600+ yrs after Christ and HE told the disciples to wait in Jerusalem for the Comforter who was to come which was HOly SPirit. i pray our Lord breaks down these false walls in her life for His own sake. AMEN. in looking at the account of MOhammed's calling, i can see that he is no prophet for no other prophet of God ever felt as he did, even to the point of contemplating suicide. Jeremiah, Isaiah and some of the others were distressed deeplly because all of a sudden their iniquity was laid bare before them. also no prophet of God ever so leaned on his wife as mohammed did, they leaned on God Himself...

i covet your prayers brethren.

God bless you all.

Shame on you all!

I suggest you all read Light Force by Brother Andrew before you say one more ignorant hate filled word about the believers of islam.

http://www.amazon.com/Light-Force-Stirring-Account-Crossfire/dp/0800731042/sr=8-1/qid=1167105356/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-5785122-1268945?ie=UTF8&s=books

Ian, did you go to Peninsula High School?

but...I will not be ashamed of the gospel, it is the power of GOD to save...save drunks...sorcerors...anyone who would believe.
Even people held in bonds by a false religion, that would lead them to hell. If I didn't HATE that lie I would be heartless and cruel, and the reality of Jesus' love is evident in that I would get prepared to reach out to them, and expose the dark lies Satan has bond them with...these can be reasoned out!

As for Brother Andrew, I refuse to pay good money to read the thoughts of a priest of Baal in his ecumenical efforts to bring us under one great "Roman umbrella." (Crsschk is this contentious? or Matter of fact?)

You should study up on the origins of the the Catholic church like where the quenn is from, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiramis

Praise GOD brother I am praying for you, and I hope that you filled with the Spirit of GOD, and HIS HOLY pure love, for that woman. It is like pulling teeth to turn eyes toward the light when the fear loosing their identiy, and family but Let GOD open each door brother.

Please reason with her about her need for salvation, and desire for real asurance (Islam denies both) Do not reveal the greatest deceiver verse until it is desperatly needed, speak to her the WORD of GOD about Christ's love, you don't have to cite address's (John 3:16, Hebrews 1:3 etc) Because faith come by hearing GOD's WORD, that don't return void.

GOD bless you brother

The life of a moderator ...

Shame on you all! I suggest you all read Light Force by Brother Andrew before you say one more ignorant hate filled word about the believers of islam.

As for Brother Andrew, I refuse to pay good money to read the thoughts of a priest of Baal in his ecumenical efforts to bring us under one great "Roman umbrella." (Crsschk is this contentious? or Matter of fact?)

Ian, Quinn ...

No need to jump to conclusions either way here. Not unlike ourselves, putting everything under one umbrella is not only difficult, it is also impossible.

There is enough obvious warrant for what is wrong as a construct to raise an indignation, but we are also still talking about those caught up in it's trappings. Ian, I think your going beyond what is stated to shame everyone here.

Quinn, I think you also are going way on to unwise conclusions about Brother Andrew. His is no ecumenical effort that I am aware of, and that which preceded this ... poor words there, very poor, ... that is a very serious charge.

Give a listen to some of these from his own lips;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=246] Unhindered[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=2931]A Special Message (1st service) [/url]

If memory serves me correctly they are parts of the same time frame and he talks quite a bit about his efforts to the Muslims.

I think that exposing eccumenism is being too critical,I don't mean for people to take it personally, they choose too by hardening their heart to GOD's uncomprimisable truth

I really think people that stay associated with the Catholic heresy, are in a really hard spot to find peace in GOD's grace.

(because etusian grace is related to sacraments that are unbiblical)

So...if your assurance & comfort is from some mother...church, and not the living GOD alone that is a false security.

Crsschk have you read "brother" Andrews book, please read the first post in this forum...Allah is not the same as the true GOD we worship (infinately differant)

I think that exposing eccumenism is being too critical,I don't mean for people to take it personally, they choose too by hardening their heart to GOD's uncomprimisable truth

I really think people that stay associated with the Catholic heresy, are in a really hard spot to find peace in GOD's grace.

(because Etruscan grace is related to sacraments that are unbiblical)

So...if your assurance & comfort is from some mother...church, and not the living GOD alone that is a false security.

Crsschk have you read "brother" Andrews book, please read the first post in this forum...Allah is not the same as the true GOD we worship (infinately differant)

Crsschk have you read "brother" Andrews book, please read the first post in this forum...Allah is not the same as the true GOD we worship (infinately differant)

I did read the first post and am not sure where you are leaping to a conclusion about ecumenicism and Brother Andrew. Do you know anything about his ministry? It's an honest question not an accusation. Exposing ecumenicism is fine, just as long as you have your facts straight. That is still a very strong and poor statement you made earlier Quinn, in light of all this.

Did you listen to the messages?

Hi bartle...

If you ever get the opportunity, read Brother Andrew's book "[i]God's Smuggler[/i]." It is cowritten by John and Elizabeth Sherrill (co-writers of [i]The Cross and the Switchblade[/i] with David Wilkerson and [i]The Hiding Place[/i] with Corrie ten Boom).

It was one of the first books that I read following my conversion. It is both thrilling and encouraging to read about the effort that Brother Andrew undertook in order to bring "illegal" Bibles to Communist nations.

:-)

yes I'm ready when the LORD allows me to die for HIS name.

By the way I am not spilling the gasoline, Islam is doing that sir. Still you are very well informed, still keep true perpective Christ is the only way.

they are not just wearing dynomite belts to kill people, they are being allowed unhindered like lemings to leap into hell one after another.

I will be killed...because I love muslims like Jesus Christ does...look at the blood shed to bear fruit as the church of China.

When I first came into the kingdom I prayed that the LORD would use my death to build HIS church. I am still praying HE will prepare me according to HIS good pleasure

"though HE slay me...yet I will trust in HIM" Job 13:15

Ecumenicism is unacceptable,

when loyalty to the LORD is compromised for unity it is worse them "immature"

I was being loud but in a crucial point, and LORD willing will continue unless driven out,

Could you see EliJaH "shoot'n the breeze" with the priests he later killed? No way, my brother EliJah would probable be killed, commited as "psycotic" for his "hostile religious delusions" by people that think they know the LORD.

because The Catholic chuch is not Christian...far from it, I was stateing fact's the religion is rooted from worship of Baal. I have been a passionate student of the early church, I am agaste at people that believe you can be Catholic & at the same time be born again...can a born again believer be in good standing with the Mormon church?...No.

As for "the burden of the LORD...the burden of the LORD"

The LORD's yoke is easy and HIS is burden is lite.

Fortunatly HE hates people who lord over others faith (Rev 2:6, 2:15, 2Cor 1:24) we are to be servant leaders that only do what is prescribed, when nessisary for the body. So we have less presure then those trying to do more then GOD.

We are to speak the truth in love, HIS love.

I must admit I was reading my RE's and I found that now (I am very tired) I see that my demeaner, and tone, and attiude are not represented very clearly.

It is easy to take boldness, and assertiveness as being arrogant. But the WORD says the righteous are as bold as a lion, I have Christ's righteousness. So I weld HIS WORD confidently because whatever is truly HIS, HE can back up.

Still I wanted to express the point, writing is impersonal, but I am not. I am tender hearted, because when I destroyed my heart, HE gave me HIS. So please believe that the tone of these is in the form of pleading.

Praise GOD

Still our praise is to come from them, and not ourselves.

So for HIS glory I will have you look at this site, and Greg, whom I know.

He does not find his joy (as many adminisraters do) in making a plan, and seeing it succeed.

I would have you discren as I do, he gets his joy, by seeking the LORD, doing what seems right by faith, when it is finished his, our, and GOD's joy is seeing how the LORD uses it for HIS glory, revealing HIS presence in it.

better then being the little head, is seeing our "HEAD exalted" (psalm 27)

without wax, Quinn

Quinn,

You still have some explaining to do ...

As for Brother Andrew, I refuse to pay good money to read the thoughts of a priest of Baal in his ecumenical efforts to bring us under one great "Roman umbrella." (Crsschk is this contentious? or Matter of fact?)

I wanted to apologize for the original tone and language of my post.
When I read the title of the original post I couldn't help to think of Ravi Zacharias' quote 'You can't cut off a person's nose and then offer them a rose.'
When we get into calling things and people agents of satan, we ignore their definite needs for the true gospel of Jesus Christ.
How many times did Jesus have to assure people that he didn't come to condemn them but to bring them grace... Jesus always gave grace before judgement. Except in the case of hypocracy.
My response to this post was out or righteous anger, I saw the word of God clothed in a coat of hatred... that is hypocracy! That is as bad as stealing homes from widows. You're stealing Jesus from every believer of Islam when you call them satanic... you're putting a weight on them that you wouldn't even bear yourself.
When was the last time you looked in the mirror and said 'Without the grace of God I am nothing but a selfish, proud, hate filled Satan Worshiper.'
Someone who goes around calling others Satan Worshipers obviously hasn't understood the full grace of God in their own lives, I certainly recall myself that the bible called me an ENEMY of God! Until I knew Jesus, and had Him in my heart I was no better than any person living in the Arab world under the yoke of Islam.

I mentioned the Brother Andrew book because it was my personal wake up call that muslims are people, they need Jesus just like you and me... and JUST LIKE ME they are enemies of God without Jesus -they may live in a different country and worship a different religion, but that is no different than when I lived with my parents and worshiped myself.

Hi Ian,

Appreciate your candor.

When was the last time you looked in the mirror and said 'Without the grace of God I am nothing but a selfish, proud, hate filled Satan Worshiper.'

Yes ...

I mentioned the Brother Andrew book because it was my personal wake up call that muslims are people, they need Jesus just like you and me... and JUST LIKE ME they are enemies of God without Jesus -they may live in a different country and worship a different religion, but that is no different than when I lived with my parents and worshiped myself.

Oh precise brother! Well said.

When I read the title of the original post I couldn't help to think of Ravi Zacharias' quote 'You can't cut off a person's nose and then offer them a rose.'

I might want to interject this too:
Some well-meaning individuals who are taking a "stand" for [u]truth[/u] are actually taking a "stand" for an [u]interpretation[/u] of truth.

It is a great and terrible thing to pass judgment upon a person (such as Brother Andrew) based upon the little that we actually know about him. I am quite sure that Brother Quinn means well in his posts, but it is important that he knows that it is unwise to make a blanket allegation about an individual. We all realize (and can safely conclude) that Islam is a massive cult based upon lies. Why? The Qur'an itself is a direct contradiction to the Word of Truth. The teachings of Islam undermine the Gospel of Christ, because Islam teaches that "God has no Son." Brother Andrew's ministry, [url=http://sb.od.org/index.php?supp_page=our_work&supp_lang=en]Open Doors[/url], attempts to bring physical manuscripts of the true Word of God into Islamic nations. In nations where every Bible must be accounted for, this is a big and dangerous thing.

Before we go around calling a brother a follower of Baal, we should first "walk a mile in his shoes" -- rather than convict him by what we read or interpret.

Far too often, certain adherents of a certain belief will reject the "spiritual condition" of those with whom they disagree. Such doctrinal and denominational divisions have hindered a true corporate move of God for far too long. There are so many doctrinal and "spiritual" topics that are open to discussion and interpretation. A list could be made about the variances in belief about certain issues. Whether or not we believe "God told us" something (and revealed it through the English or Greek Word) is irrelevant. It is, in my opinion, better to hold on to a persuasion about such divisive issues instead of having a "[i]God told me -- I'm right -- You're wrong -- You're in danger of being a heretic[/i]" type of attitude. Remember, at one time or another, we were not quite so mature in the Lord. We did not have all of the "knowledge" that we have now. Were we heretics or "prophets of Baal" during that time?

Remember, boldness without restraint is just disruption that typically lacks humility.

:-)

Well, before this thread gets locked, I'd like to say that I appreciated the Koranic verses that establish that Allah is a great deceiver. God forbid that people think we worship the same God. This is very timely! My fellowship is currently engaged in witnessing to a small mosque.

EDIT: I must say something else. These Muslims, regardless what I or anyone else thinks about them, are extremely dedicated and hospitable. In some cases I've received worse treatment from so-called Christians that this group of Muslims. May the God of Abraham open thier blind eyes.

Agreed Nlong,

I wonder how much of the opinions that people in general have about mohamedens is from first had experience or from what they have been told by the media. We only hear about the ones that blow people up. Now the whole perception is that they are more radical than us. Rubbish, try tell that to the chinese, tibetan church and the countless numbers who are not dieing on the front page of some daily newspaper, but is some shallow grave in the middle of nowhere. The people who serve our master have died more for their faith than a few hundred fanatics. We are being set up to believe that every single mohameden is packing a vest, or wanting to blow someone up.

Having done allot of business with them in my city, they are the same as christians (generally speaking). Some of them are serious in their 'faith', so are we. Some of them are lukewarm, so are we. They have families, they have kids, they have dreams and desires and I can tell you now that most of them want to live in peace, and also get a bargain.:-D

As to the original post on this thread, they do worship an idol, and unless they repent...we know the story.

Sorry if I vented, its not directed at anyone in particular, its just that there are so many lies being told people.

Brother Andrew is a representative of the Catholic church http://www.ad2000.com.au/articles/1993/jul1993p6_804.html

,This "Church" teaches a false gospel of works look at work done by Dave Hunt, even read a Chick track http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071_01.asp

Brother I'm glad your asking to search out the truth, I get the feeling you have some association with some Catholics, please study to show yourself approved to contend for The Faith.

I think the rest I alreay said.
In Christ
Quinn

Brother you shouldn't cut off their nose, but if there is a 60lb monkey on their back, I say "take your sword, and give IT a wack"

When I quote the Qu'ran, I am not insulting any muslim personally. To conseed that point is to cut off the life preserver I desire to hand them...DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

I think you may be "hearing whispers" when you read my stuff.

you said
"When we get into calling things and people agents of satan, we ignore..."

I never exposed any follower of Mohammad, I just exposed his teachings, and other documentation showing how their "faith" is applied.

Ian you said
"My response to this post was out or righteous anger, I saw the word of God clothed in a coat of hatred... that is hypocracy! That is as bad as stealing homes from widows. You're stealing Jesus from every believer of Islam when you call them satanic... you're putting a weight on them that you wouldn't even bear yourself."

I don't recognize any rightoues indignation here, not by the definition of righteous.

I can not steal Jesus from those without HIM,

by quoting the Qu'ran I can not diminish, or "cloth" GOD's WORD with its hate.(By the way GOD hates sin, and false teachings that send people to hell is sin, we are to hate sin. Do you agrree with that?)

You are right though I could not bear the weight of my own sin, that is why I broke on the rock, and call other to as well.

They must choose to break or harden.

I will not be so wicked to let them pass into hell without the choice.
Quinn

you quoted a Scripture

"Remember, boldness without restraint is just disruption that typically lacks humility."

I can't find that in my Bible where is that?

It does not seen to be logical in every application, it may work in some situations, but certainly not in all. I think half truths, are lies. Because of what happened to Eve.

Quinn

I love muslims too, and Mormons for that matter, I pray that millions would find Salvation, and store up treasure in heave, and help us put the enemy to flight ( One a thousand, two 10 thousand stc...)

Abraham set the model for middle eastern hospitality, I learned that is BIG to them, and I'm sure a great source of genuine joy, GOD has set that up that we might speak the truth in love, not just pat them on the back.

I am praying for you brother
GOD bless you, as you receive HIS grace to bless HIM.

Found in Christ,
Quinn

Brother I'm glad your asking to search out the truth, I get the feeling you have some association with some Catholics, please study to show yourself approved to contend for The Faith.

Secondly, you are really pushing the patience level of many here, myself included. After all that has gone on here from your inception up until now, a great deal of charity has been shown forth. You need to really slow down and get your facts straight before you start making all kinds of damaging comments.

Recalling ...

It is easy to take boldness, and assertiveness as being arrogant.

I am hard pressed to be charitable here brother. Not only is there an arrogance but a seemingly willful ignornace and pride that you wish to bestow upon others here.

please study to show yourself approved to contend for The Faith

Let those same words redound into your ears very deeply until you recognize the pride contained within them. Then go back and see if you cannot figure out that you have the [i][b]wrong[/b][/i] Brother Andrew linked here as well as totaly ignoring everything posted about the one that is being mentioned by others here.

I know what you mean, I'm glad that they aren't all wearing vests too,

But believing the Qu'ran keeps a door open for all of them to follow justified as pious under "relious sanctity."

We must step up and lay it down, what can man do us? (we need to recapture this perspective Biblically)

Hi Quinn...

you quoted a Scripture

"Remember, boldness without restraint is just disruption that typically lacks humility."

I can't find that in my Bible where is that?

It does not seen to be logical in every application, it may work in some situations, but certainly not in all. I think half truths, are lies. Because of what happened to Eve.

I don't mean this as a criticism. I merely want to point out that [u]boldness[/u] often does not equate to [u]truth[/u]. It is a wonderful thing to be bold when you are 100% correct (and mingle that boldness with compassion and love). To be blunt, it is an evil thing to be "bold" in making an accusation that is not based completely on truth.

I love you, brother. As I stated before, I am praying for you in complete honesty and humility.

:-(

BTW, we have a wonderful record in the Gospels about the manner in which Christ shared the Truth. If you remember, he showed much restraint in his manner of preaching. He did not always state the obvious -- He lived it. Christ was a "friend" of tax collectors, prostitutes and "sinners." We have no record that He told everyone everywhere that they were going to Hell. Instead, speaking in love, he told them the TRUTH -- that He alone was "the way, the truth and the life." Yes, he "confronted" the hypocrites with strong words. But He also [u]wept[/u] before he [u]whipped[/u]. It would be Christ-like to do likewise. There is a big difference between boldness and merely crudely sharing what we think to be true.

First, you don't know any Catholics? Sorry you read something personal into that, PLEASE reread

I said I was glad that you were searching out the truth...

maybe I didn't have the faintest Idea...
Were you inquiring of me for some other reason?

What is wrong with exhorting others by the WORD, though? "study to show yourself approved"

You bring accusation, saying everybody is annoyed with me, well why do they secretly whisper to you? Are you Lording over the faith here?
"Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand." 2Co 1:24

In America we face our accusers because of wisdom, "A wicked doer giveth heed to false lips; and a liar giveth ear to a naughty tongue." Pro 17:4

I really get the feeling that you are not entering the kingdom of GOD with me. To receive these words as applicable to the sayer as well as the doer, instead I interpret you lashing out here as if you are receiving the gracious exhortations like I am asserting dominance over you. (Zec 7:11)

HE said pick up your cross daily, "Today" do not harden your heart, one can not enter the kingdom of GOD unless they are as a little child.

I myself would never be able to enter if I thought that I was some intergalactic biship asserting my dominace over other's faith, hating GOD's correction, like Balaam who was outraged by a donkey, I would fail to keep perspective of Emmanuel. The mystery of godliness, Christ within us.

Bother Andrew does speak at Catholic Churches...Would you speak at a Mormon temple?
Read below, maybe they have a dozen "brother" Andrews, but he is eccumenical, which is WRONG.

"Brother Andrew feels passionately that the rapid spread of Islam could be, by far, the greatest challenge that the Christian Church worldwide has yet faced. His friendships and the love of God have taken Brother Andrew into private meetings with leaders of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah. He is among the few Western leaders to regularly travel to the Middle East as an ambassador for Christ to these groups. He has also broken Christian religious barriers by preaching in Catholic and Coptic Orthodox churches." from http://www.opendoorsusa.org/Display.asp?Page=BAprofile

I feel like you are unreasonable, unjustifible being over bearing without any apparent reason. You support your acussations with only name calling "arrogant," "Proud" "willfully ignorant" So I am going to Greg in this matter.

Would you speak in a Mormon temple? Ravi Zacharias did... so did DL Moody -I guess it would have to come down to the spirit's leading, and the last time I checked, I couldn't vouch for what the spirit was leading others to do. If I knew what the spirit was telling other believers then I would know everything, I would be God, and I'm not -don't presume yourself to be omnicient like God, don't be so proud.

You know Quinn, when you have to defend every comment you make, maybe you shouldn't make the comment in the first place.

I don't like how you guys are teaming up on Quinn, that is ungodly Proverbs 16:27, You were the one that brought evil contention to this forum, and Islam is evil, we should hate lies. If Ravi Zacerius jumped off a bridge would you follow him?

As for Bartle he admited that he and crsschk came to team up on Quinn when he said that "Thanks for turning me onto this guy" obviously crsschk from what I read is very insecure about being in control, Proverbs 10:18 says He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool.

Crsschk maybe you should avoid doulosquinn if you are theatened by him. let someone else moderate

as for me I am really benefiting from his disscussion.

Peace, brothers and sisters.

Ecumenicism is unacceptable

I'm proud of your courage Quinn in asserting this, something I reckoned for years that unity of religions at the cost of Christ as one of the evil of evils in our time, on public relgious forums, I for one, would be too timid to use this strong tone. Priase God for that.

Might I add this, perhaps counting on being condemned as well, Christian Sectarianism is also evil. Something explicitly warned against in Scripture.

It will be all too great, if we who are true to Christ, living in the post or revival of Christendom(depending on how we see it), speaking out against ecumenicalism and sectarianism from time to time, most often, is very necessary, to warn ourselves against deception and others of trouble. While we are doing that, we must also remember that God is sovereign, HE will take care of it all in time, if HE indeed has already taking great care of HIS Church, the invisible true Church, safeguarded in the Head of this Church, our Lord Jesus Christ, PERFECTLY !

Having said all this with much timidity, fact remains, we must also remind ourselves that we all have families and friends who are still living or perhaps seeking Christ in various denominations, various religions, or just being plain atheists,that our primary effort should be in praying for them. Quinn, as you told us that God called yourself out from falsehood, God called me out from all sorts of stuff in my life time as well, let's be patient, through watchful prayers and study, speaking out against evil, with consideration of love and respect towards each other.

So many times, we love God so much that we feel like screaming out for Him, to warn others, to defend His glory.. satan comes along quickly and stir up troubles...

I have learned that we cannot be effective when we rush into things, sort of like, when we want to be heard, we must first be patient, at best, be loving ( gentle, kind, forbearing,understanding, merciful..) you know, things which I am still having to learn.

I see great potential in you for God's work, Quinn, keep learning Christ..may God bless you with even more knowledge and love for Him and His children.

Bartle and Crsschk, let us also exercise patience towards brother Quinn, just as you have done so with me...yeah, thanks!

In Christ
mamaluk

Hold up here for just a moment please. If one was to backtrack to the beginning of this thread and read it sequentially there is a very important matter here being sidelined.

Brother Andrew, who needs no defending also needs no spurious, uncalled for attributes being leveled here on an open forum that is also presenting his messages.

As for [b]Brother Andrew[/b], I refuse to pay good money to read the thoughts of [b]a priest of Baal in his ecumenical efforts to bring us under one great "Roman umbrella."[/b] (Crsschk is this contentious? or Matter of fact?)

And to think this is going to slide on by without notice or correction? Waited for Quinn to reflect and correct this and yet there is no repentance here.

If I have sinned tell me how

Your sin Quinn is one of bearing false witness. You placed a link to [i]another[/i] Brother Andrew, not the one mentioned earlier in this thread, not the one linked by others, not the one featured on this site. Do you think you can just disassociate yourself from this as no big deal? [i]This[/i] is the issue I am taking you to task on.

It is painfully obvious that you did not take the time to research any of this before you spouted off with your very poor choice of words. You obviously do not have any idea about Brother Andrews ministry whatsoever, even after others here encouraged you otherwise. Furthermore you now wish to take a snippet from his site and make this the new ground of your venomous comment? You wish to distract from the question at hand and start quoting scripture about other matters? Have you forgotten the essence of the Lords own words as it relates to this type of comment?

[i]And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.[/i] Luk 9:54-56

To go even further with this, your comment is without warrant anyway, even if you were to attribute it to a Catholic priest you would still be bearing false witness, they well are in error but they are also not worshipping Baal.

As to Brother Andrew, the one mentioned prior to your revealing comment, the one who has smuggled in untold bibles into Communist countries, risked his life in ways you can only dream of and make passing comments about from the comfort of your home ... I am indeed steamed at your audacity and arrogance and pride for it is all these things including poor research and flippant, unknowledgable utterances. Do you have the foggiest notion of what he might be preaching in these churches you despise? Forget your ecumenism bit it doesn't apply, you are making judgment on things you do not know, have not heard and have not truly even looked into, that is evident.

There are saints here far advanced in understanding than yourself and there is an awful lot of discussion that you do not have the foggiest notion about over the course of 3 plus years.

This is indeed a rebuke.

Hi BereanMinded...

After having known both Bartle and Crsschk for quite some time (at least in the forum), it might be safe to say that they are not purposely picking on doulosquinn (nor do they probably feel "threatened" by him).

I agree with Brother Quinn, as do most individuals on this website, that Islam is a cult based upon lies. The religion of Islam rejects the fact that God has a Son. That alone contradicts all Biblical Truth -- because Jesus is "the way, the truth and the life." There is nothing wrong with pointing out the evil nature of that religion. However, it should always be done in an attempt to bring the true good news that God does indeed have a Son -- and His Name is Jesus.

However, I feel that the contention in this thread (and in another thread) was based squarely upon the bold manner in which our brother Quinn has made a few statements. In this thread, he called Brother Andrew (a minister whose messages are included on this website) a "[i]prophet of Baal[/i]." That is certainly a bold accusation -- and (right or wrong) one that our brother will certainly have to give an account for.

It is good to be bold. But it is also good to be "slow to speak." How many times have we stated as [u]fact[/u] that which is merely interpretation, deduction, speculation or theory? I feel that Brother Quinn's accusation about Brother Andrew is an example of failing to use restraint in our speech. Brother Quinn has probably not met Brother Andrew. If that is the case, he is simply basing his belief and statement upon what he has read from the writings of flawed individuals. We have probably all been guilty of such beliefs and comments from time to time. There is certainly a fine line between truth and error. However, it is possible to disagree with a brother WITHOUT publicly labeling him a "prophet of Baal."

In my opinion, this is one of the most difficult problems to overcome in Christianity. We will have unity -- but only as long as everyone agrees with what we have "learned," "figured out," or believe that God has shown (or "led") us. We state such matters as fact that are still open for debate. Then we have the "bold audacity" to question the salvation or spiritual state of individuals with whom we disagree. For instance, Brother Quinn stated about someone in this forum:

I really get the feeling that you are not entering the kingdom of GOD with me. To receive these words as applicable to the sayer as well as the doer, instead I interpret you lashing out here as if you are receiving the gracious exhortations like I am asserting dominance over you. (Zec 7:11)

As for going to "sinful places" to preach (like a Muslim, Catholic or Mormon meeting place), I might question about the audacity of the Son of God. He came to a sinful planet to preach the Truth. In fact, aren't we SUPPOSED to go to the sinner -- rather than have the sinner come to our meeting places? I thought that was what EVANGELISM was all about. Jesus was slandered by self-righteous hypocrites because he "ate and drank with sinners." I would that God raise up truly BOLD individuals that don't care about the self-righteous accusations of "holy believers" that would go into the AIDS hospices and hold the hand of dying homosexual men and explain the true love of God! I would that men and women would leave the comfortable confines of their armchair and desk pulpits and go into the highways and byways of closed Islamic nations. I would that men would go into the sinful parts of this nation's cities (like Brother Wilkerson) and share the Good News with prostitutes, drug addicts and sinners. I would that men and women would leave the comfort of their church buildings to invade this nation's prisons and share the love of God to rapists, child molesters and murderers.

But you know what? It is far more comfortable to criticize a brother and question his salvation after he has done this for nearly 60 years (like Brother Andrew).

Please do not take this wrong. I am not questioning anyone's relationship with God. I am only suggesting that individuals (like our dear Brother Quinn) show some humble restraint when campaigning for what they feel to be true. And we should all be careful to distinguish the differences between TRUTH and CONCLUSION.

That being said, I am continuing to pray for Brother Quinn according to his earlier requests. He is obviously a very spirited and eager servant of the Lord. I pray that God raises him up to do great things in love.

:-)

It will be all too great, if we who are true to Christ, living in the post or revival of Christendom(depending on how we see it), speaking out against ecumenicism and sectarianism from time to time, most often, is very necessary, to warn ourselves against deception and others of trouble. While we are doing that, we must also remember that God is sovereign, HE will take care of it all in time, if HE indeed has already taking great care of HIS Church, the invisible true Church, safeguarded in the Head of this Church, our Lord Jesus Christ, PERFECTLY !

I agree. But what is most troubling is when there is this sort of pragmatism that excuses in essence lying or bypassing things because the 'issue' wants to be presented at this expense. We see it here far too often, a distracting away from the glaring problems of pride, of being dishonest, bitterness, high-mindedness ... [i]them[/i]. And the leap in logic is almost always towards a misconstruing, of taking things 'personally', of being offended or of accusation, this proverbial and diabolical [i]'I know your type, I know what you are thinking[/i], insinuations, assumptions, presumptions. You can almost hear the thinking out loud; "Oh, I see, you are _____" "You think ____". Is this not the the bane of "evil imaginations"? These things that we are supposed to cast down? Supposing the worst or supposing the best, jumping to conclusions rather than just sticking to the matter at hand, the words, the quotes, the comment. [i]Playing the ball, not the man[/i].

It is almost unbelievable sometimes the things dreamed up in the minds of some of us .. this scripture;

Jam 2:4 are ye not divided in your own mind, and become judges with evil thoughts?

Fine apparel or refined thinking seems almost to make little difference if we are to be judges with evil thoughts.

"[i]Ah, compromise![/i]"
"[i]Ah, ecumenicism![/i]"
"[i]Ah, KJV only![/i]"

On and on it goes, controversy compels yet pride, humility, self-debasing honesty, a real true look at ourselves, a needed rebuke, another examination, another confession ... are we so above it all?

Am speaking in great sweeping generalities here ...

Christian Sectarianism is also evil. Something explicitly warned against in Scripture.

[i]That[/i] dear sister is something that has fallen off the map it seems being that we are often over run with so many prophets and church straighten-out-er's, spiritual head surgeons and .. that is an accusation! I include my own folly in this matter. But to attempt to even try and get us to understand this command to be one ... The circle completes itself ... [i]compromise[/i]! [i]Ecumenism[/i]!

Sigh ...

There is so much to say but I'll put forth one idea right now which I think ties together most of the different themes on the forum of Islam, Ecumenicalism, and divisions in the church.

I have often said myself, partly in jest, that [b]'there are no vegetarians in third world countries.'[/b] Having been to rural China and seen the way that people live in starvation I can assure you that if something is found to be edible, it will quickly find its way to the dinner table. I want to apply this same general idea to the persecuted church.

The ministry of Brother Andrew is not to the comfortable Western Church, whose main concerns and obstacles have to do with the church budget, losing the youth to pop culture or the toughest decision of what color the choir robes should be... the ministry of Brother Andrew is to the [b] PERSECUTED CHURCH[/b].

He goes where there are Christians being beaten, shot at, set on fire, stoned, electrocuted, torn apart by dogs... who's homes are being burned down or blown up. Whose churches are riddled with bullet holes.

One thing he recognized in his own ministry, and throughout the persecuted church, is that [b]where there are Christians being martyred for their faith, the walls of denominations fall down, the divisions that man makes fall down[/b]... of course there will be differences in style or worship or theology -but when the bullets are flying overhead, a person with a relationship with Jesus will be drawn to another person with a relationship with Jesus irregardless of what they were taught in Sunday School.

I believe there is a remnant of true followers of Jesus in the Catholic Church -do I think their theology and political structured is screwed up... YES! But I dare not assume that that keeps Christ from breaking into people's hearts. Wherever the bible is being read there's a potential for the revelation of Jesus in the individuals heart.

[b]Sermonindex readers I want to make another thing clear... we all talk about how much we love Leonard Ravenhill... do you know who gave Brother Andrew the nickname 'God's Smuggler'? Leonard Ravenhill!

Has anyone read 'The Heavenly Man' by Brother Yun... Brother Yun talks about Operation Pearl where nearly one million bibles were smuggled into China -that was Brother Andrew!

Have you heard of Corrie Ten Boom, do you know who Corrie Ten Boom's closest confidant in her elder years was and traveling mate? Brother Andrew!

Brother Andrew was even invited to spend a Christmas holiday with Biddy Chambers... Anyone heard of Biddy Chambers? Well how about Oswald Chambers?! My Utmost for His Highest ... guess what, not compiled by Oswald but by Biddy!!!

I could continue but I think my point has been made, Brother Andrew is sure to receive many crowns for his work among the persecuted church and reaching out to the atheist in the communist lands and the Muslim in the Arab world... how about you? [/b]

On a lighter note, and please take this with a grain of salt… in reply to an earlier question 'if Ravi Zacharias jumped off a bridge would you too?' the answer is yes... I can go into a big long list of the things that Ravi has done for my Lord and how he has been used to further the kingdom. Part of seeing where Jesus is working is recognizing it and joining it (didn't you guys ever do Experiencing God by Henry Blackaby?) I can see the fruit of the harvest being reaped in these men's lives, if they jumped off a bridge I'd follow because most likely it would lead to Jesus (no pun intended... well maybe).

Thank you Berean, Mamaluk, sscott,

for not attacking my sincere desire to stand against corruption.

Mamaluk, I once heard all bigots were bad...but I found if your bigotry is for righteousness it is a good thing. I believe sectarianism is defined as holding one religious view as superior. (I define because I've noticed mis-defining terms can cause lots of problems) Well I don't think all sectarianism is bad, if you stop seeking for people who accurately serve, and worship GOD, I believe the zeal can be weakened and may lead to comprimise.

I have heard this said many times "you will never find the perfect church, but if you do don't join it, you'll ruin it." THAT IS A LIE.
Jesus never fail's (1cor 13) HE builds the church (ONE TRUE CHURCH) a building made without hands, living stones fitted together, suppling to one another connected to One head, aperfect GOD, The LORD Jesus Christ. Churchs are not buildings down the street, or earthy in any way. We of The Body are seated in heavenly places. (I'm sure to an unbeliever that is arrogant sounding, but in all humilty I take GOD at HIS WORD) Saying that, One Way Jesus is loving appeal, not a rejection notice.

As for the worship of Baal, I may have been wrong about Andrew, even mentioning one Andrew that was not the Andrew being venerated, because I do not know him...maybe he does not worship Baal. I was wrong to state that he unequivically did, I'm sorry LORD Jesus for bringing reproach upon your name before all of these, grant me true repentance please LORD. Thank you for having crsschk press me to be accountable for my words.

Crsschk all you see in me is ignorant pride, maybe you see my shame accurately, even things I can not percieve. It is possible your lofty thoughts are strip away the folly of fools similar to me, but I believe in HIS love for me, I'm not KJV only, but I do believe the Majority text are authoritative. I can't read minds, but when people lash out at me, I know that there is a problem, and I desire to do it right before my ever present best friend, who loves everybody I talk to sooo much.

Ian I mis-understood you after the "shame" comment I like what you said when you stated "there are no vegetarians in third world countries." you made some excellent points.

Still if I was invited into a Catholic church, I would proclaim the pure undefiled gospel as good as I could, LORD willing led, and filled by the HOLY Spirit, without respecting persons, but honoring GOD. Being sensitive not to leave out critical truth to lost people bound by religion, which I'm sure would close the door of any more invitations.

Crsschk [b]all[/b] you see in me is ignorant pride, maybe you see my shame accurately, even things I can not percieve. It is possible your lofty thoughts are strip away the folly of fools similar to me, but I believe in HIS love for me, I'm not KJV only, but I do believe the Majority text are authoritative. I can't read minds, but when people lash out at me, I know that there is a problem, and I desire to do it right before my ever present best friend, who loves everybody I talk to sooo much.

Let me attempt to set another evil notion straight here. This is no hierarchy even within the confines of this forum, the moderators are just as accountable, in fact more so in some ways and that challenge is ongoing and spiritually testing. If anything, to m o d e r a t e is to attempt by and large a modum of decorum and decency that primarily deals with [i]conduct[/i]. In a setting such as this with great spiritual ramifications to mention and hold that which is uninformed up to examination, to step into divisions and stop them from even forming, to plead for yet another examination, reflection, confession is always to be typing on a mirror ... If there is anything that I could press on to the hearers and readers here at all times it could be confined to a couple of phrases;

[i]Don't get the wrong idea![/i] and
[i]Don't jump to conclusions![/i]

It is just down right diabolical the notions we form by casting off to the future, by taking things to such a personal effrontery and offense, by going [i]past[/i] and into realms of understanding [i]presumed[/i] by each other ... Let me tell you it is often exasperating and perhaps is just one of the reasons for my own sheer folly at times, for you see, I too am just as susceptible to all these things as any one else here.

Let me pour just a little more salt on all our wounds here; We are far too often too weak in being offended and too smarmy in our pride. Often, this high ideal of our stand for truth puff's us up and we tend to think we are being 'persecuted' when we are being challenged by those who look out for our souls. We might like to think we are wielding the sword but just as often we are slashing in the dark and have no idea who we may be slaying.

We shouldn't be cutting ourselves so much slack as to quickly dismiss our errors and attach and addendum of explanation, it is counterproductive.
These things are very much generally speaking but to draw this back again to you Quinn, let me repeat Greg's earlier exhortation to you, s l o w d o w n ! And may I again plead this for us all.

There are some long articles that take time to absorb and dwell on, Oh it is good for us if we could just break our minds off the controversial and topical. The preservation of the messages and sermons here, these past saints that have so much to speak to this present generation ... This grand buffet spread about before us and we will spend our time either nibbling or gorging ourselves only on what comes across the main page, as if the window dressing is all there is to this place. It is vast and incredible the resources made available here. Life changing elements and that is no hyperbole. Dig! [i]Search[/i]! Allow yourself to be immersed into these things, I can guarantee you if you will but allow yourself the freedom to be challenged, to ponder and reflect over these things, you will change your mind and have your mind changed, your heart pricked and see the Eminence of the Lord exalted!

Is that not what we are after, after all?

One thing he recognized in his own ministry, and throughout the persecuted church, is that [b]where there are Christians being martyred for their faith, the walls of denominations fall down[/b], the divisions that man makes fall down... of course there will be differences in style or worship or theology -but when the bullets are flying overhead, a person with a relationship with Jesus will be drawn to another person with a relationship with Jesus irregardless of what they were taught in Sunday School.

Ian, outstanding post here brother ...

That dear sister is something that has fallen off the map it seems being that we are often over run with so many prophets and church straighten-out-er's, spiritual head surgeons and .. that is an accusation! I include my own folly in this matter. But to attempt to even try and get us to understand this command to be one ... The circle completes itself ... compromise! Ecumenism!

Haha ! I hope I haven't been one of those prophets and surgeons here..(lieing.. I must have had my share too)

Crsschk, I can relate very well to what you are saying, as always, your moderation over this forum is indeed of a fair and sensible one. I apologize to you had I intervene here previously. I do often think, that, respect is very important, ironically, I seem to find more of that in the world than in church venues. I also think that, many good thoughts and views are lost because poor presentations or misrepresentations.

However, this "playing the ball, not the man" idea sounds all too good. Man's thoughts and views [i]are[/i] part the man, we are what we think. Naturally, when our views and thoughts are violated, we respond negatively. Call it pride, or call it the defence mechanism. Same result really.."injury".

BTW, Quinn, I disagree with your view on Sectarianism quite a bit, do consider me wrong it's okay, let's not debate over this, really, some disagreements are just quite okay.

Sectarianism, Ecumenicism, same difference, really, fun toys of satan..i'm sure.

I agree. But what is most troubling is when there is this sort of pragmatism that excuses in essence lying or bypassing things because the 'issue' wants to be presented at this expense

right on,Crsschk

sigh..

echoing to that..will be praying

DoulosQuinn wrote:
Jesus Christ or Islam?

“This exposure often motivates Christians to make the extra effort that it takes to bring the good news to Muslims. There is an attitude in Christian circles that Muslims may be worshipping the same God as Christians so it would be better just to leave them alone. This paper argues that the god of the Quran is not the God of the Bible. The teachings of Islam hurt the lives of its followers. Islam is like a stale, moldy crust of bread. Following Jesus is like a fresh, warm loaf right out of the oven. Christians must see that what they offer Muslims is wonderful and life-giving for them. Also to awaken the Christian scholarly community to the radical differences between Islam and Christianity. Too many scholars try every possible means to demonstrate common ground between Islam and Christianity. Committed Christian scholars need to honestly present the truth about differences between the fundamental teachings of both faiths.” Ex-muslim scholar Dr. Mark A. Gabriel
...
lots of qoutes...
...

We can not win the war against Islam unless we surrender our lives to Jesus Christ, and follow HIM. Because the WORD says fight evil with good. But the good we need to fight evil with is not as some carnal men standing on golden pulpits would portray it, it is not a “quiet love” that is needed, this unbiblical Christianity the last few generations of “fathers” have pedaled, stands proudly in contrast to The WORD (Proverbs 27:5). To love as we would want to be loved, is to be reached, reasoned with, confronted by unwavering truth…like Jesus Christ does. We can not convert, save, or coerce anyone into becoming a genuine Christian. That is a work of GOD alone. But HE is with us, and our Father can help us to walk as HE walked and be HIS hands and feet. As we love HIM because HE first loved us, it is HIS love in us that is evident to all (2Cor2:16) With eyes turned truly toward HIM, lovingkindness leads to repentance. HE is the living GOD who is not willing that any perish. What can man do to us? (Isaiah 8:13) These threats or passing sufferings can not compare to what awaits us in HIS presence forever. Why not win eternal friends? Stand in HIS strength, it’s HIS faith, not Abraham’s, that moves mountains, and gives men second birth. “A man is no fool to give up what he can not keep to gain what he can not loose.” Pray for the courageous, selfless love of Jesus Christ to become your own. We overcome by HIS blood, Martyr (witness) not loving our lives to death (Revelation 12:11). HIS glory is better shown in one laying down his life, not building earthy kingdoms or even “ministries” with thousands of ears to tickle, or tithes received.

Is being a "man"ly man mean you have be a biker, or burley? I think following Jesus is manly, better yet encouraging others to follow HIM is good too"

I pray for those who love HIS mercy would fear HIS Holiness, and follow HIM, FOLLOW HIM.

may I LORD Jesus Christ?

Quinn, you listen to Brother Andrew yet?

Does brother anderew have mp3 on this site?

I'd look at it. I am very poor though can't afford it.

I would like to

Does brother anderew have mp3 on this site?

Yes. Go back to page 5 of this thread, the links are noted ...

DoulosQuinn wrote:
I'd look at it. I am very poor though can't afford it.

Open Doors would probably send you a copy of his books for free if you e-mailed him and expressed an interest in knowing more about reaching Muslims with the Gospel and explaining your financial situation.

http://www.opendoorsusa.org/Display.asp?Page=home

I tell Muslims, "I am a muslim" (it means submitted) I tell them "I am submitted to the true GOD the GOD who demonstated true love...HE loves you too!"

Most of them pretend like the Qu'ran does not say all these things it says, YOU ALMOST HAVE TO KEEP A COPY ON YOU TO PROVE IT. Then they say english is not an accurate translation....If you know Arabic then they kind of don't want to discuss it...blindly bound willing to follow a lie

Cool,

I will be gone for a couple weeks I am doing Prison ministry in Mexico for a while pleases pray for me everybody.

Quinn

does anyone know of any good sermons on Isalm, or any by Anis Sharrosh?

Our culture is being prepared to be destroyed while they feel sorry for their killers.

a real revival please a genuine work please GOD please help us please

BereanMinded wrote:
does anyone know of any good sermons on Isalm, or any by Anis Sharrosh?

A Biblical Perspective on Death, Terrorism and the Middle East by John Macarthur

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=3875&commentView=itemComments

BereanMinded wrote:
Our culture is being prepared to be destroyed while they feel sorry for their killers.

a real revival please a genuine work please GOD please help us please

You need a revival in your heart! Jesus told us to love our enemies, to show them kindness when when we are wronged. I dare say we would have stunned the Muslim world more with a campaign of humanitarian aid than the invasion of Iraq!

But we can't expect a secular American government to do what Jesus said, so we Jesus-followers need to do it all the more seriously! It's a shame that a Christian has to live in fear of what other nations or people can do to him, when we're a holy nation, an army of God, with the greatest commander and chief, Jesus, who promises to go with us into the battles of our generation!

I am now standing corrected, brother Andrew is really cool, and I was very imature, and presumptous to speak poorly of him ignorantly. It is kind of weird but when I showed up in Mexico for the prison ministry, the man who has been dicipling me for a couple years said he wanted me to see this book about a guy that reminded him of me. He gave me a copy of "GOD smuggler." It really had my attention after what I wrote on SI, I was blown away at his faith, and how GOD has shown HIMself through Andrew so victoriously.

As for Islam I sincerly want to love all muslims too, I praythe LORD make it possible.

Praise GOD
Quinn

I am now standing corrected, brother Andrew is really cool, and I was very imature, and presumptous to speak poorly of him ignorantly. It is kind of weird but when I showed up in Mexico for the prison ministry, the man who has been dicipling me for a couple years said he wanted me to see this book about a guy that reminded him of me. He gave me a copy of "GOD smuggler." It really had my attention after what I wrote on SI, I was blown away at his faith, and how GOD has shown HIMself through Andrew so victoriously.

As for Islam I sincerly want to love all muslims too, I pray the LORD make it possible. But I still know it is important not to remain ignorant of the lies that hold these people captive. Especially when we can share the truth.

Praise GOD
Quinn

Amen!

Two weeks ago I finished reading Brother Andrew's book 'Light Force: Christians Caught in the Middle East Crossfire' and I think this would be a great book for you to read also.

The focus of the book was the persecuted church in the middle east. But Brother Andrew wasn't just there to bandage up their wounds, he was there to equip them to be soldiers for Christ, to boldly reach out to the Muslims in lebannon, palastine and throughout the middle east.

Brother Andrew believes that no door is ever closed unless God wants it closed, and God wants all of his children to be saved, so that's how Brother Andrew confidently knows that there are Muslims that God wants to hear the gospel!

Brother Andrew has had oppertunities to preach the Gospel to leaders of the secular Palastianian authority, Hamas and Hezbollah...

Later this year he's releasing another book which is more specifically about his work among muslims -I can't wait to read it!

I can't wait to read "Light Force"! I've been hearing so much about it and know I get to read it for a youth ministry I'm in.

Brother Andrew is such a godly man and his other books have been a great blessing to me in the past. I love the way the Lord works for him so he doesn't have to lie to the boarder guards.

Jordan

I found a NEW documentry that really explains everything about Islam, is does not tip toe around the issues. It is called "Islam: What the West Needs to know" It is a 98 min DVD.

I was blown away by how many ex-muslims are lifting their voice like a trumpet!!!

You can see they trailer at their site
http://www.whatthewestneedstoknow.com/

They stopped selling them on amazon, probably because of security, Muslims get IP addresses, then go and kill people who are exposing what they believe. You will see in the Qu'ran where they are taught to do it to honor Allah.

But I found a copy on E-Bay

it is ten Minute before midnight on this one.