Prophets Playing with Fire...

"Behold, I come [i]quickly[/i]" (Rev. 22:12)

Jesus Christ said this over 2,000 years ago. Corey, what is the difference between this and Greg saying that a nuclear attack is "iminent"? Or with Ravenhill thinking America will be destroyed soon? None of these have been proven false, plus I know that when men like Ravenhill spoke, they would often put forth disclaimers like "I may be wrong, but..." Very wise, but even if they didn't, it still wouldn't make them false prophets. Saying "I think" or I believe" is not the same as doing what Isaiah or Jeremiah or Agabus did. When a man or woman says "I believe", it in no way implies "thus saith the Lord"; if it did, we'd all be in big trouble! You included! All of us would be the Lord's prophets whether we realized it or not. Besides, I don't think we understand the true ministry of a prophet. To most people, when they hear "prophet" they immediately think of a type of Christian Nostradamus. Not so! This doesn't even scratch the surface. Leonard Ravenhill has written a powerful little article on what defines a true prophet of God, entitled "Picture of a Prophet." In light of this article, I seriously venture to say that no regular visitor and contributer to these formus (or on any internet forum for that matter) is a real, bonafide prophet of God in the Biblical sense. I know I'm going to challenged on that last statement, but I'll hold my ground. Seriously - do you ever wonder why men like Keith Daniel and Dave Wilkerson and Zac Poonen are never seen participating in internet forums and debating and posting their theology and preaching?

This is really something to think about.

Brother Paul :-)

Corey,

Think that may be overstating it quite a bit. It is certainly one thing to pronounce "Thus sayeth the Lord" and then go on to speak presumptuously, (trust me, I have a very large issue with this whole matter)and that which might be formulative.

What Greg is saying isn't necessarily 'prophetically' speaking, nor would Ravenhill's be either. You do not have to fancy yourself a prophet to make an observation.

Think Robertson would be better off reading The Farmers Almanac for weather patterns and the like, they have a better track record.

To get a proper perspective on the office of a prophet, I decided to go ahead and post this. Brother Corey, if you haven't read this yet, please do. May the Lord bless your time of reading!

[b]Picture of a Prophet[/b]
by Leonard Ravenhill

The prophet in his day is fully accepted of God and totally rejected by men.

Years back, Dr. Gregory Mantle was right when he said, "No man can be fully accepted until he is totally rejected." The prophet of the Lord is aware of both these experiences. They are his "brand name."

The group, challenged by the prophet because they are smug and comfortably insulated from a perishing world in their warm but untested theology, is not likely to vote him "Man of the year" when he refers to them as habituates of the synagogue of Satan!

The prophet comes to set up that which is upset. His work is to call into line those who are out of line! He is unpopular because he opposes the popular in morality and spirituality. In a day of faceless politicians and voiceless preachers, there is not a more urgent national need than that we cry to God for a prophet! The function of the prophet, as Austin-Sparks once said, "has almost always been that of recovery."

The prophet is God's detective seeking for a lost treasure. The degree of his effectiveness is determined by his measure of unpopularity. Compromise is not known to him.
He has no price tags.
He is totally "otherworldly."
He is unquestionably controversial and unpardonably hostile.
He marches to another drummer!
He breathes the rarefied air of inspiration.
He is a "seer" who comes to lead the blind.
He lives in the heights of God and comes into the valley with a "thus saith
the Lord."
He shares some of the foreknowledge of God and so is aware of
impending judgment.
He lives in "splendid isolation."
He is forthright and outright, but he claims no birthright.
His message is "repent, be reconciled to God or else...!"
His prophecies are parried.
His truth brings torment, but his voice is never void.
He is the villain of today and the hero of tomorrow.
He is excommunicated while alive and exalted when dead!
He is dishonored with epithets when breathing and honored with
epitaphs when dead.
He is a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, but few "make the grade" in his class.
He is friendless while living and famous when dead.
He is against the establishment in ministry; then he is established as a saint
by posterity.
He eats daily the bread of affliction while he ministers, but he feeds the Bread of
Life to those who listen.
He walks before men for days but has walked before God for years.
He is a scourge to the nation before he is scourged by the nation.
He announces, pronounces, and denounces!
He has a heart like a volcano and his words are as fire.
He talks to men about God.
He carries the lamp of truth amongst heretics while he is lampooned by men.
He faces God before he faces men, but he is self-effacing.
He hides with God in the secret place, but he has nothing to hide in
the marketplace.
He is naturally sensitive but supernaturally spiritual.
He has passion, purpose and pugnacity.
He is ordained of God but disdained by men.

Our national need at this hour is not that the dollar recover its strength, or that we save face over the Watergate affair, or that we find the answer to the ecology problem. We need a God-sent prophet!

I am bombarded with talk or letters about the coming shortages in our national life: bread, fuel, energy. I read between the lines from people not practiced in scaring folk. They feel that the "seven years of plenty" are over for us. The "seven years of famine" are ahead. But the greatest famine of all in this nation at this given moment is a FAMINE OF THE HEARING OF THE WORDS OF GOD (Amos 8:11).

Millions have been spent on evangelism in the last twenty-five years. Hundreds of gospel messages streak through the air over the nation every day. Crusades have been held; healing meetings have made a vital contribution. "Come-outers" have "come out" and settled, too, without a nation-shaking revival. Organizers we have. Skilled preachers abound. Multi-million dollar Christian organizations straddle the nation. BUT where, oh where, is the prophet? Where are the incandescent men fresh from the holy place? Where is the Moses to plead in fasting before the holiness of the Lord for our moldy morality, our political perfidy, and sour and sick spirituality?

GOD'S MEN ARE IN HIDING UNTIL THE DAY OF THEIR SHOWING FORTH. They will come. The prophet is violated during his ministry, but he is vindicated by history.

There is a terrible vacuum in evangelical Christianity today. The missing person in our ranks is the prophet. The man with a terrible earnestness. The man totally otherworldly. The man rejected by other men, even other good men, because they consider him too austere, too severely committed, too negative and unsociable.

Let him be as plain as John the Baptist.
Let him for a season be a voice crying in the wilderness of modern theology and
stagnant "churchianity."
Let him be as selfless as Paul the apostle.
Let him, too, say and live, "This ONE thing I do."
Let him reject ecclesiastical favors.
Let him be self-abasing, nonself-seeking, nonself-projecting, nonself- righteous,
nonself-glorying, nonself-promoting.
Let him say nothing that will draw men to himself but only that which will move
men to God.
Let him come daily from the throne room of a holy God, the place where he has
received the order of the day.
Let him, under God, unstop the ears of the millions who are deaf through the
clatter of shekels milked from this hour of material mesmerism.
Let him cry with a voice this century has not heard because he has seen a vision
no man in this century has seen. God send us this Moses to lead us from the
wilderness of crass materialism, where the rattlesnakes of lust bite us and where
enlightened men, totally blind spiritually, lead us to an ever-nearing Armageddon.

God have mercy! Send us PROPHETS!

Dear Corey,

I still wish he hadn't said that thing about America going down in the 80s... Better for a man of God to remain silent than be wrong in a [b]prediction[/b].

Brother, this is what you qouted before...

Leonard Ravenhill said in an mp3 sermon (circa 1980) [u]he expected[/u] the destruction of America within a year or two.

But, did he say that God had revealed this to him(that is did he speak in the name of the Lord)? If not, then is it really right to make this statement concerning Ravenhill...

If Ravenhill and Robertson were alive in the times of Moses and Aaron, they would be STONED FOR BEING WRONG!

Dear brother Corey, this is a very weighty matter, even to mention like this. Look at Deuteronomy 19:15-19, for instance. And especially concerning our brother Greg. I just do not see anything in his statement that I would or did, understand as prophesy. I believe I would have certainly taken notice if he had put it in those terms.

Please consider this, and take a look at passage also.

Thank you for considering this,

Chris

Hi Greg.Welcome to Victoria! Put on your armor, open your heart and be blessed in the battle with us.

Thank you all for your thoughts on this thread:

Two neglected emphases in Biblical Prophecy that seem to be relegated to the backseat so to speak:

In my opinion of course:

One dimension of biblical, Spirit inspired prophecy: Proclaiming and explaining the mind and heart of God:

The predictive element of prophecy has been over-emphasized. We comment more on the state of affairs of a nation, or the church rather than emphasizing how God feels:

His pleasure or displeasure concerning the state of His people or plight of those who remain outside of His salvation:

His gracious call to restoration and renewal in the light of His warnings and confrontation to provoke repentance.

The persistent pleadings from His heart for men and women and children to test Him and embrace His promises with decisions of the will:

In the Bible: true predictive prophecy springs forth in the context of God revealing and confirming the character traits of who He is and how He will act in consistency with His character: while also confirming the veracity of His Word to be trusted and acted upon. In other words: A future event foretold in order to call us to trust Him today, and remain in hope for tomorrow with a balanced expectation.

However, men such as Carter Conlon and David Wilkerson due exercise prophecy in this manner on a consistent basis and from a biblical, doctrinally sound foundation.Perhaps all of you know of others who fit this pattern.

The other neglected element of the domain of a prophet called by God and gifted by His Spirit:

Placing false or aberrant teaching and practices alongside the plumbline of the truths of God's Word.

Recognizing and identifying the trends of apostasy while confirming and encouraging individuals to remain in the truths:
Alert to Apostasy as one part of Abiding in Truth and Abounding in Love: (Of course all through being dead to self and alive in Christ)

Setting aside the false and alerting others to the consequences: While feeding on and fulfilling thr truth:

A Thanksgiving Day Example might Help:

Taking great pains to wash and prepare the bird being aware of the reality of salmonella poisoning:

But then having great pleasure in preparing and cooking and serving the deleicious bird to those gathered:

Eating a full portion of the turkey and fixings:

But then going out and exercising afterwards:

And then being available to restore and minister to those who neglected the warnings in the food preparation and now have food poisoning.

In this context, we can then be zealous to warn, point out and reject those who would promote and sell rotting turkeys.

So a ministry that promotes taking joy in the real thing:

Heed the warnings but not to the neglect of loving and living the truth. And remain heartbroken for those who resist the warnings.

Roger Oakland of UnderStand The Times Intl.
http://www.understandthetimes.org/
is a notable example of a person who engages in this type of ministry.

Again, you may know of others.

Thanks for anytime spent in consideration or response to these thoughts.

Couple things to rember or note.

I still wish he hadn't said that thing about America going down in the 80s

Note Adam died but in a way that wasn't observable to the eyes. Maybe Ravenhill was right? I think it is RAHMAN who has done extension research on American economy and the overthrow of America. It might be useful to pm' him and ask for the threads he posted on that.

Pretty meaty.

Thank you. :-)

In my opinion of course:

One dimension of biblical, Spirit inspired prophecy: Proclaiming and explaining the mind and heart of God:

The predictive element of prophecy has been over-emphasized. We comment more on the state of affairs of a nation, or the church rather than emphasizing how God feels:

His pleasure or displeasure concerning the state of His people or plight of those who remain outside of His salvation:

His gracious call to restoration and renewal in the light of His warnings and confrontation to provoke repentance.

Welcome Pastor! If I may return the greetings.
:-)

Very well said. If I recall correctly David Wilkerson would state that he saw himself more of a 'watchman' than a 'prophet'. We have had quite a few discussions on what constitutes a prophet in our day and generally it seems the lines have become quite blurred in many minds.

A prime example would be someone like A.W. Tozer. A prophet in our day (In my opinion) defined by your first definition and yet completely bereft of any manner of predicting or forth telling of coming 'event's', at least the sort that are of a "Thus sayeth the Lord" or "The Lord is telling me ..." style.

He most certainly defined exactly where we are today and saw it coming.

bro Loveroftruth
welcome to S.I! i thank God for your post because it confirms what our Lord had been showing me about prophethood (an office to which i believe i'm called) which i'd been trying to share of late. indeed most people immediately assume that a prophet is one who predicts the future but that is like you said a small part of it. i look at the prophets in the O.T. and we can take for example Samuel. Samuel didn't say much about the future, he dealt with the present mainly. Elijah and Elisha also dealt more with the present than the future. if you read the books of the prophets you find out that much of what is written is the very heart of God being poured out through the prophet to Israel concerning her behaviour. SOmetimes the prophet is told what God will do in response to Israel's behaviour or even the behaviour of the nations around her, like Isaiah, Jeremiah etc. Another thing about the prophets is that they were aware of what was going on around them. Jeremiah was at the king's court so he had knowledge of international affairs for example. the amazing thing is that they saw these things in the context of what God was doing and what He was planning to do to Israel. we can take daniel also for example. He lived long enough to see the medes and the persians take over babylon. He knew well enough (being one of high rank in babylonia) what trouble was brewing with the growing power of the medes and persians. He saw it in the context of what God was doing as he started to see the vision he was shown come to pass.

His gracious call to restoration and renewal in the light of His warnings and confrontation to provoke repentance.

true, although the message of restoration may not come immediately after the warning of judgment/call to repentance. Ezekiel spent about 7 yrs, the first 7 years of his ministry preaching nothing but judgment with only one mention of restoration, a brief one i might add before God turned him loose with the message of restoration and reconciliation. this is subject to the will of God Himself who picks and chooses what message to send when and through whom.

i was blessed by your post :-D

bro Crsschk

Very well said. If I recall correctly David Wilkerson would state that he saw himself more of a 'watchman' than a 'prophet'. We have had quite a few discussions on what constitutes a prophet in our day and generally it seems the lines have become quite blurred in many minds.

i take it you think this post helps clear things up a bit? ;-) :-P

A prime example would be someone like A.W. Tozer. A prophet in our day (In my opinion) defined by your first definition and yet completely bereft of any manner of predicting or forth telling of coming 'event's', at least the sort that are of a "Thus sayeth the Lord" or "The Lord is telling me ..." style.

kinda like samuel? i guess once again this underscores that the predictive aspect of being a prophet is what is more commonly known about, in contrast to the bigger picture which really is the pouring out of the heart of God and how He feels about His people and their circumstances.

IRONMAN and Crsschk:
Thanks for the good words and welcome!

IRONMAN: glad I confirmed and stimulated the further pursuit of God Himself as you contunue in that calling!

The blessing will be the privilege of helping others draw near to God and overcome any hurdles of unbelief or discouragement that may have stood in the way.

Speaking of "Overcoming".

You might find more fuel for the fire in the Letters to the Churches in Rev. 2-3.

As Revelation is explicitly identified as a prophecy Rev.1:3

I am blessed to see Jesus faithfully in the midst of the Church He Himself is still building.
In one sense He speaks as the truest prophet to the leaders, the church as a whole and any individual who will hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches as the One communicating to us and empowering us to carry out the interests of Christ in cooperation with Him.

Some have looked at these Churches through the "predictive" lense element of prophecy and seen the various church ages throughout history.

While cool and novel and edifying to some degree, I myself do not find warrant for that in the Scripture itself.

But here is what I do see. These are words of prophecy as Jesus speaks to His Church:

As He seeks to confirm the good,strenghten some to continue in spite of opposition, distraction and persecution:

and take strong personal issue(out of love) for the wrong and yet again provide for means of restoral, renewal and revival as He calls for repentance.

He also warns of judgment and intensive discipline that He will undertake if His Words are eventually not heeded.

The predictive element of prophecy I believe is present with the events that unfold in Rev. 4.

The beauty is that Christ holds out promises in each letter for the one who "overcomes". I believe these promises are tied to the glory that will be revealed in the future events that unfold later.

The blessing is that it allows God's people to sense His active presence in a very real and tangible, yet Biblical and faith filled way.

Keeping it simple here, because I think that anyone can be encouraged by this means of interpretation no matter their view of eschatology/end times even though I hold to a Pre-Mil/Pre-Trib perspective of living out my faith.

Blessings to you,

crsschk wrote:
Very well said. If I recall correctly David Wilkerson would state that he saw himself more of a 'watchman' than a 'prophet'. We have had quite a few discussions on what constitutes a prophet in our day and generally it seems the lines have become quite blurred in many minds.

When Wilkerson was in Australia, he preached a sermon based on John the Baptist's words, "Are you the one to one, or should we expect another?" In it, he mentioned how he has often gone to God, weeping saying, "Should I retract what I have said?" His thoughts were on all those who could have benefited from property booms, when he had exhorted everyone to "get out of debt", based on what he believed that God was saying.

True, Wilkerson refers to himself as a watchman, but he always adds, "...one of many." The other thing that is very important to recognise is that a prophet would always have to bear the agonising burden of the possibility of "getting it wrong", and yet be required to obey the Lord's prompting, as an act of faith. After all, "that which is not of faith is sin".

Ravenhill was wise to comment on his belief that America would be destroyed. Bear in mind that his catch cry was often, "If God doesn't judge America, then he will have to apologise to Sodom and Gomorrah." He'd also say things like, "What makes you think that you are exempt while nations like Russia and China suffer?"

A lot of what is being considered to be "prognosticating" was more of reactionary statements to widespread belief in a "pretrib rapture", which Ravenhill heavily objected against.

As a side, often people object to people "claiming to be prophets", and rightly so. Pontifical characters like Robertson, are dangerous in one sense, and ridiculous in another (this is why they are often "ridiculed". Ravenhill never referred to himself as a prophet. Tozer did (in the foreword to "Why Revival Tarries"). And remember, back in those days, "prophet" was used to describe the one who brought the "hard word".

However, there is another kind of "prophet". This is the one who reads prophetic Scripture, and sees the "cause and effect" statements, realising that the "cause" is happening now, and so God could not, in good conscience, hold back the "effect" indefinitely. Upon seeing this, they are "compelled to warn" others of what they see.

Brothers like Art Katz, Wilkerson, Reidhead, and Ravenhill, for example, would come under this category. I have heard Art (of these the only one that allows himself to be called a prophet) often say of how he would give a statement, and how one would come accusing him of "bringing shame to the character of God", by his statements, to which he says, "The heck of it all is that they may be right. But the prophetic tension is that to be silent would be a greater offence, and the risk of bringing shame to God's name and incalculable damage to the church will not be fully know until the Day of Judgement."

We try to distill things down into pretty principles that keep us safe. Funny, I believe that is what Eve tried in the garden, by adding the words "..neither shall you touch it.." to God's command to not eat of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. It didn't work for her, and yet somehow we believe that it will for us, and meanwhile massive sects and heresies spring from these "safety blanket additions".

God help us, if we cannot come to the simplicity of Christ and obey what has been said, and what [b]is[/b] being said without question. Don't forget, it was only Moses who talked with God "face to face". Every other would have had reason to question that God was speaking to them, all the while aware that failure in even one point meant death...and yet they obeyed, and didn't [b]play it safe[/b]. Thank God they did.

Difficult to place this being two simultaneous posts of the same matter up ...

I am convinced that our great error in this day and if there is anything at all prophetic necessary it is this;

[i]Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts[/i]:
Psa 51:6

bro Loveroftruth
Good word!

IRONMAN: glad I confirmed and stimulated the further pursuit of God Himself as you contunue in that calling!

AMEN.

The blessing will be the privilege of helping others draw near to God and overcome any hurdles of unbelief or discouragement that may have stood in the way.

yes indeed, this is a big thing, it's not about us but about our Lord and His glory.

I am blessed to see Jesus faithfully in the midst of the Church He Himself is still building.In one sense He speaks as the truest prophet to the leaders, the church as a whole and any individual who will hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches as the One communicating to us and empowering us to carry out the interests of Christ in cooperation with Him.

indeed Christ is the Chief Prophet and Apostle and High Priest of Faith. indeed He speaks to those who have ears and hear what the Spirit is saying...will we listen or be like Israel in times past and harden our hearts?

Some have looked at these Churches through the "predictive" lense element of prophecy and seen the various church ages throughout history.

While cool and novel and edifying to some degree, I myself do not find warrant for that in the Scripture itself.

it seems to me these Churches existed then and throughout the ages till now in that the prevailing Spirit in the Churches can be seen in believers in different places. There are those like laodicea with much wealth but yet lukewarm, those like Ephesus who have toiled much and toil still, but have left their first love, then those like Smyrna and Philadelphia which suffer. ultimately the bottom line is we have to hear what the Spirit is saying to us. Are there things we need to repent of? have we left our first love etc. which you summed up perfectly here.

As He seeks to confirm the good,strenghten some to continue in spite of opposition, distraction and persecution:
and take strong personal issue(out of love) for the wrong and yet again provide for means of restoral, renewal and revival as He calls for repentance.

He also warns of judgment and intensive discipline that He will undertake if His Words are eventually not heeded.

This is the very heart of God being poured out through JOhn concerning His Church and this is prophecy in it's truest sense i believe.

The beauty is that Christ holds out promises in each letter for the one who "overcomes". I believe these promises are tied to the glory that will be revealed in the future events that unfold later.

AMEN!

Keeping it simple here, because I think that anyone can be encouraged by this means of interpretation no matter their view of eschatology/end times even though I hold to a Pre-Mil/Pre-Trib perspective of living out my faith.

and that's the bottom line. i don't ascribe to pre-trib rapture, i'm a pan-tribber, it'll all pan out. 8-) i feel that as per the letters to the Churches, there is a time in which we the Church must be purged if we are to be rapture ready so to me GOd may do this pre-trib, through the first half of the trib, or through the whole trib. the bottom line to me is God's grace is sufficient whether one is pre,mid or post trib.

like the word said and you repeated, let he that has ears hear what the Spirit is saying...

Something of a gaff earlier. Should have placed the following here, in this thread, taken from

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=14101&forum=40&post_id=&refresh=Go]Girolamo Savonarola -smithers[/url]

The life of Savonarola exemplifies many precious qualities that our fainthearted and distracted age so desperately needs. [b]We are barren and deficient in prayer, patience, purity and most importantly a sacrificial love for Jesus.[/b] Until we as the body of Christ return to these holy principles, true reformation and revival will not be realized; Oh Lord break our hearts and open our eyes!

One day, he saw a vision of the heavens opened, and all the future calamities of the Church passed before his eyes. He then heard God's voice charging him to warn the people. From that moment he was convinced of his prophetic calling, and he was suddenly filled with a new unction and power. His preaching was now with a voice of thunder, and his rebukes against sin were so terrific that the people who listened to him sometimes went about the streets half-dazed, bewildered, and speechless. His listeners were often so overcome with tears that the whole church echoed with the sounds of sobbing and weeping. Workmen, poets and philosophers, all would burst into tears under his passionate preaching.

No fear, no trembling, no worry, no cause for concern, no breaking and mourning and no change. And we are to pay attention to these that are loosely making all kinds of spurious comments, crediting them to God almighty, telling us of what is coming, getting it either half wrong, half baked and it is all met with a shrug? No big deal? We have come to accept the unacceptable and a poor definition is the new translation of what the form and function is.

And the world just laughs at it all.

There are no prophets today. Maybe, just maybe the true prophet is contained in our midst, stripping away all that is false and flippant and frivolous. Demanding that there is an accountability and a proving. Rubber on the road facts and tangible evidence. Think we have given far too much slack for slackness and just sheer lack ... The level of acceptance has become one of 'close enough' and 'maybe' and 'perhaps'. In a word ... gullible.

We need a revival desperately.

bro Mike

I am not angry and I may be a bit besides myself here, but this whole prophetic business is just very grievous. Where is this evidential effect, this sort of prophet? Where are the reports of anything even remotely resembling this manner of things happening in the here and now? Even in recent years?

[b]The Following is an observation and would best be understood as such. not trying to stir the pot but try and get this thing broken down so we can understand a bit better.[/b]

i feel your heart coming through

isn't one described as "beside himself with rage?" :-P anyhow bro, i've gone through the prophetic books (not that i have gleaned all i can from them as yet) but i've seen little evidence of any such repentance from the people of Israel to whom the prophets were sent.this is not to say that such repentance is impossible but rather that this in fact IS the desired effect to any prophet who is sent forth with a word of repentance.most of the time, that is not the case Jeremiah spoke of the coming judgment and God showed Him (and he complained about) that people wouldn't repent. in this book we see partly how false prophets prophecy, they speak of more good times when clearly people need to repent. i'm wary of such prophets. this is not to say that nobody repented but the majority didn't and the judgments failed. there is no prophet who preached repentance and warned of coming judgment whose warnings didn't come to pass.Jonah however did have some success, nineveh did repent and was spared for a season but later relapsed and you know how the rest went... what i have observed is that the people of Israel didn't repent until AFTER judgment came. i guess in looking back on what Israel went through we assume that we'd be able to recognize a prophet right away (i guess assuming he fits our bill) where Israel failed even though we're guilty of much of the same thing. Israel was not very nice to most of the prophets. in going through Ezekiel (bless God for the word) showed me where Ezekiel was swept off in the spirit to Jerusalem from babylonia and came before the priests of the temple who subsequently didn't repent and Jerusalem fell. Isaiah said "who has believed our report?!" hardly anyone did apparently hence the prophet's lament. in the n.t. we begin to see some changes. JOhn the baptist baptized many and indeed many came to repentance. when Christ came, not that many people repented and He mourned over Jerusalme because of it because He knew what the Father had in store for her unrepentance.

No fear, no trembling, no worry, no cause for concern, no breaking and mourning and no change. And we are to pay attention to these that are loosely making all kinds of spurious comments, crediting them to God almighty, telling us of what is coming, getting it either half wrong, half baked and it is all met with a shrug? No big deal? We have come to accept the unacceptable and a poor definition is the new translation of what the form and function is.

if the message of repentance or impending judgment is seen as false, what is the incentive for repenting or trembling? :-? i wouldn't give too much credence to any prophet who comes preaching "peace, peace" if judgment is concerned, i perk up because if indeed there is something i need to repent of, i need to know and do right by God. this is not to say everyone who comes out saying "judgment is at hand" is right but i'm not about to risk getting in trouble with God over some mess i had been warned about ahead of time.

i guess at best we'd like prophets who fit an ideal of sorts, anything but repentance/judgment? maybe at worst we're unwilling to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe we have residual idols to busy and things to repent of before a HOly God or we'll die.

We need a revival desperately.

AMEN!!! revival will come after repentance, and repentance after judgement typically as far as i can tell from the experience of the prophets of old.

we need revival alright...

A great thread. A few thoughts have come to my mind, as I read through it:

I wonder if we can ever come up with a clear and tidy definition of a “prophet”. Do we see it in scripture? The NT? I like Ravenhill’s list, but wonder if he got it all from God. Like this point:

unpardonably hostile

Franky, I fear that more than a few misguided people hide their abrasiveness and cold-hearted directness behind such noble labels as “prophet”. What a way to glorify one’s inability to get along with anyone: set yourself above everybody.

We have come to accept the unacceptable and a poor definition is the new translation of what the form and function is. This very truth in itself aught to expose the lack of the truly prophetic, and the need.

It doesn’t help that the modern church has developed misconceptions about the OT prophets. Hardened hearts mock such tender traits as weeping, raw honesty, or a burden for the lost. I’ve heard it said that Jeremiah and Elijah suffered from depression. Sure they had low times, but to distort the image of the spiritually mature prophet by portraying them as psychologically unwell?

Where is this evidential effect, this sort of prophet?

And the world just laughs at it all.

“How long will the enemy mock you, O God?” Ps. 74:10

Corrie said:

the media frightens us with doom and gloom every day. Should Christians be terror-stricken by so-called "inspired" leaders like Robertson?

I don't see anything of Jesus in Robertson.

In Israel, the prophets seemed to reflect the spiritual condition of the nation, and that, I believe is what we see today:

“The prophets are but winds…” Jer. 5:13
“The prophets prophesy lies.” Jer. 5:31

What we see sure makes it tempting to discard the role entirely. Yet, surely God has been preparing his own spokesmen, and in his time, they will come forth and utter the word of the Lord to the people, as Ravenhill said:

Let him come daily from the throne room of a holy God, the place where he has
received the order of the day.

Diane

sis diane
happy new year to you sis!

This is also what I thought when I read Robertson’s “prophesies”. Even if all his predictions do come true, it is still most cruel and inhumane to pronounce a fatal diagnosis on a nation without giving it any hope. That, actually is anti-Christ – Satanic! The entire reason the Good News is so good is because Christ came to rescue us from judgment by giving us new life. The spirit of prophecy is Christ – that is, Life, not death and doom!

even the word of hope itself is sent by God at a time of His own choosing. it may not be immediate. for example, Ezekiel spent about 7 years preaching repentance and judgment for Jerusalem without a word of hope. our Lord showed Him that people would indeed repent and Ezekiel said so. also God showed him in that period that Israel would be restored however he didn't preach that until AFTER the judgment came.

i'm not saying pat is a prophet but if we are to judge wisely, we ought to consider this also. the prophet is to speak whatever he hears from heaven and we must acknowledge that perhaps the word of hope will not come until much later and perhaps it is received better after judgement has come because the exhortation will mean that much more. hope is hope in a time of sorrow.

i've not received any word of restoration but i see repentance coming and this will usher in the revival we've been longing for!

Dear Corey,

I agree with your post. More men of God need to learn silence. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Yet too many in the church speak without this fear. They lack wisdom.

In the name of Christ,
Blake

Happy New Year to you too, Ironman,

i've not received any word of restoration but i see repentance coming and this will usher in the revival we've been longing for!

I wonder if you are referring to a large scale type of restoration, revival.

However, as individuals, we certainly don't have to wait for that "big day"! That is the wonder of the Good News: it is available for me today - even while no word of restoration is being pronounced.

Ezekiel may not have proclaimed restoration for seven years, but I don't think we can use that to reason to withold the Good News of Christ. Quite the contrary. God's warnings of judgment to prophets aught to be golden opportunities to warn of the need to prepare, that is, turn to Christ.

Diane

sis D

I wonder if you are referring to a large scale type of restoration, revival.

i was however...

However, as individuals, we certainly don't have to wait for that "big day"! That is the wonder of the Good News: it is available for me today - even while no word of restoration is being pronounced.

you're right here and also...

Ezekiel may not have proclaimed restoration for seven years, but I don't think we can use that to reason to withold the Good News of Christ. Quite the contrary. God's warnings of judgment to prophets aught to be golden opportunities to warn of the need to prepare, that is, turn to Christ.

Revival is restoration...DUH. i thank God for setting that straight. i was not advocating that we not preach the good news, i just didn't connect revival with restoration right away even though i know revival is coming because repentance is coming after the judgment (which is at the door) hits.

thanks sis

Bro Ironman ...

Hmmmmm ... another thread on the validity (or not) of NT "prophets" huh? ...

In light of this thread deriving from Pat Robertson's latest "sensing" i'd like to point out that those mentioned in this thread (Pat, Ravenhill, Wilkerson) were/are quick to distance themselves from the mantle of "prophet" as a disclaimer to being held responsible to a "false-prophet" designation if what they "speak" doesn't come to pass ...

You and i are the only ones here on SI (or amongst any other saints i personally know) who dare to say that we believe ourselves called as NT prophets ... And you and i both know one is either called of Him a "prophet", or one isn't - there's no slight letting off of the hook by calling onself say a "watchman" instead ... And we've already been around this mulberry bush a dozen times as to what a NT "prophet" primarily is ...

With this said we also know that if we put a "thus saith the Lord", as we believe we were led of Him to do under ...

[b]Prophetic Credentials II[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=11514&forum=35&start=50&viewmode=flat&order=0
[b]Prophetic Credentials 3[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=12628&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go ...

... on what we believe Holy Spirit is saying to us about soon forth coming events in 2007: Namely ...

- The onset of His calling me forth as a "spokesman" first to His Church, and then to the nations (me) ...
- The onset of my ministry, which will take a multitude with it (me) ...
- Fireballs from heaven & destruction of two American cities in some form (you) ...
- A warning thru you three days prior to American economic collapse (you) ...
- The onset of American economic collapse proclaimed for 20 years (me)
- The onset of mass repentance in America (me) ...
- The onset of Revival - beginning "here", which i believe to be my home church since it was there that i recieved the "word" (me) ...
- The onset of a "final harvest" time (me) ...

... then we're held responsible by the letter of His word to the outcome ... [b]If events come forth as fore-told then God Himself proves us ... If they don't then God, thru scripture, plainly reproves us, regardless of whether we we're sincere, mis-led, or deluded, as FALSE PROPHETS ... Period! ...

If that be the case then we can only ruefully beg His forgiveness FIRST!, then that of our brothers and sisters for whatever the reason we've been instrumental in falsety and misleading, pray we suffer no divinely orchestrated retribution in our lives that we would have not otherwise suffered - resting heavily on 1 John 1:9 & Rom. 8:28, and quietly submit ourselves to a more "normal" Christianity and less "hyper" faith ... To be proven false will for most who know us mark us as an "i told you so" in reference to our claims, and so enable them renewed comfort in Christianity as usual ... But if He proves us true, then i think of how many whose faith will be enhanced in a time when enhanced faith in Him will be ones greatest asset toward the "fear and trembling" of such a time ...[/b]

So as we've talked about previously the gauntlet has already been thrown down, all is written here on SI Forum, the line drawn in the sand back in 2006 - behind that now closed door ... In this new year of 2007, with a "new" door standing agape before us, there's nothing left for us to do or say on this subject, as the only thing left remaining is to WAIT ON GOD to prove us "live" or "memorex" ...

Rest in Him my brother, we're already here and don't have much longer to wait! ...

Blessed be the name of our Father, His Lamb and our Lord Creator Spirit, with Whom nothing is impossible ... Amen

Hang on a minute, Rahman!

as FALSE PROPHETS ... Period! ...

Even Peter needed some serious maturing - AFTER Pentecost! (See Gal. 2:11 ff) Because of people fear, Peter was actually working against the Gospel by sitting with Jews rather than Gentiles (of all things!). Yet that didn’t make this preacher of the gospel a false apostle.

I’m not sure that we can use “misfiring” as the ultimate only criteria for labelling someone a false prophet. (that would make Wilkerson false) Surely we must also consider other words they say (or fail to say) , also character (hard to do when they don’t mingle with our lives) There are plenty scriptures that describe false teachers/prophets – almost every book of the NT.

As I said, 100% accuracy is no reason to assume a prophet is sent by God. Recently I was encouraged to watch some “awesome” prophets on a TV show and hear their predictions about Canada. Frankly, their prophesies were so general that there is no way they could be wrong. As far as I was concerned, it was all rubbish. They didn’t even try to demonstrate the fulfillment of last year’s prophesies (which sounded the same as this year’s) These people can’t even read the present-day signs properly, let alone hear from God! Their message had nothing to offer to the thirsty soul, not ONE reference to Christ.

….[some] were/are quick to distance themselves from the mantle of "prophet" as a disclaimer to being held responsible to a "false-prophet" designation if what they "speak" doesn't come to pass ...

However, if predictions don’t touch hearts, then they are just like explosion of buckshot – hit no specific target. The OT prophets – now those were real!! They understood human character, they addressed a host of specific issues: social injustice, personal sins, worship, response to God, New Covenant prophesies, etc etc.

You and i are the only ones here on SI ….who dare to say that we believe ourselves called as NT prophets ..

Of course there could be any number who are in the backside of God’s desert, still fumbling, growing, learning from God – not yet come into bloom. Remember Moses, God has a way of hiding his own. And he also has a way of shaping their calling as he chooses. Of course, we in our culture are big on titles (Rev, Pastor, etc) , but Scripture uses terms to define what they were actually doing, not to function as a label.

I draw from the NT: Pentecost was effective because God’s saints waited for him – till the anointing. In fact, even Jesus waited till he was anointed by the Spirit.

That is something for us ALL to consider, regardless of our call.

Diane

Happy New Year sis D ... :-D

As usual you operate by looser parameters than myself ... Like Hebrew National: I answer to a Higher authority ... :-P

Again this is my view, in my experience of the heaviness of daring to output "thus saith the Lord" ...

[b]"If events come forth as fore-told then God Himself proves us ... If they don't then God, thru scripture, plainly reproves us, regardless of whether we we're sincere, mis-led, or deluded, as FALSE PROPHETS ... Period! ...

And to this we can add your, "Or maybe just immature, impulsive, and hasty", but it still does not stop the fact of being: FALSE!, as made inexcapably plain in the scripture below ...

Deut.18"[/b]
[22] When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

[b]MATTHEW HENRY'S COMMENTARY;"[/b]
Deut. 18:22. If there was any cause to suspect the sincerity of a prophet, let them observe that if he gave them any sign, or foretold something to come, and the event was not according to his prediction, they might be sure he was not sent of God ...They are directed not to be afraid of a false prophet; that is, not to be afraid of the judgments such a one might denounce to amuse people and strike terror upon them; nor to be afraid of executing the law upon him when, upon a strict and impartial scrutiny, it appeared that he was a false prophet. This command not to fear a false prophet implies that a true prophet, who proved his commission by clear and undeniable proofs, was to be feared, and it was at their peril if they offered him any violence or put any slight upon him.

[b][color=FF0000]i'll be making no further comment on this subject,[/color][/b] but just wanted to share the brevity of responsibility i feel, and the fear i have in the Lord about this because i know God ain't real big on "false prophets" ... i do what i do, and i've done what i've done out of faith, but make no excuses if He proves me false, and will have to bear whatever reprimand if He sees fit ...

[i][b]As to the rest of what you posted, the bottom line of my post to brother Ironman is simple: "We're way past talk" ... God will now either stand us up in a way in which we've never been stood up before, or He'll sit us down in a way in which we've never been sat down before" ... And it won't be much longer before it's made plain to us ALL! [/b][/i]

Rahman, you may be finished on all this, but can you just hang in for a few more thoughts...

You said, regarding my earlier response to you:

As usual you operate by looser parameters than myself ... Like Hebrew National: I answer to a Higher authority .

i've done what i've done out of faith, but make no excuses if He proves me false, and will have to bear whatever reprimand if He sees fit ..

Whatever is not of faith is sin, so would that not mean that the converse is true: whatever is done in faith is NOT sin. That would imply that if you are proved wrong, then you did NOT make your claim out of faith, but from something else. That would be the bigger issue than the rightness or wrongness of the prophesy: your faith, which is more precious than gold.

The onset of Revival - beginning "here", which i believe to be my home church since it was there that i recieved the "word" (me)

Just curious: How did God tell you that revival would begin in your home church? Was it a dream, a voice, a vision, a scripture? How has he been reconfirming this word? From your wording, it seems like it was a logical deduction. (I’m being a thorn, again)

Am I right (or wrong)? It seems like you are banking your entire standing with God on this prophesy about revival beginning at your home church. Here’s my real concern: You may have a very long time to wait before you find out if you are living in faith or in sin. It would be tragic to have to wait years before knowing for sure. In fact, I have heard various people say that God will bring revival in the NEXT generation, not ours. I am inclined to lean that way.

But if He proves us true, then i think of how many whose faith will be enhanced

Also, could it not happen that when people encounter Jesus, all else, including predictions will grow dim in their eyes?

It is not mainly about miracles, signs, wonders, and prophesies. (see 1 Cor. 13) There are far more important elements of our Christian life. Christ is central, not our prophesies or any gifts.

In a sense many of the revival prophesies are incidental compared to the bigger picture of God’s mighty move. It’s not so much about place and form. The New Covenant is all about God’s kingdom IN YOU, growing in the hearts of people. That is far more important than locations or buildings…. We can’t separate ‘revival” from basic biblical principles regarding the way God works in lives.

There is also the possibility that the predicted revival may begin in hundreds of churches simultaneously. You wouldn’t be wrong, really, but that wouldn’t make much of your prophesy.

You see where I’m going…..

If you end up being wrong about revival at your church, you can’t hurt many people – certainly it makes no difference to me here in Canada. But in the mean time, what about your own relationship with Christ. Is it being held in hostage by this prophetic thing?

quietly submit ourselves to a more "normal" Christianity and less "hyper" faith

God bless you. I know his hand is at work in your life!

Diane

Brothers,

IRONMAN and Rahman,
You are both beloved without equivocation and that is and is not a necessary nicety before the setup for what follows. It is, in that it is true, it is also a setup, in that there is still some things that are begging answers.

In all honesty, much of this sounds like you are seeking vindication for [i]yourselves[/i]. That you are almost as concerned for this as for what you believe to be your particular roles as prophets and what you believe is up around the horizon.

That is just a very flat statement, I mean no other thing by it. The thing that I find a constant wonder is the never ending explaining and defending that is being done. Where is the self-abasing, couldn't care less attitude of the past prophets, not that they couldn't care less about the burden and the word and the fear and trembling, all those things, but I do mean for their selves? Is this about them or you or God? Where is the accounting of the prophets defending and constantly explaining, 'proving' themselves?

It brings doubt to what is being spoken by so much ... underpinning, that it needs all this to lend support and credence and ... proof. That may be far from your particular thinking, but it is an effect being left on the table, at least to my perception. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that you believe these things are from the Lord, nor that this is your modus operandi, your self vindication, still it is in part it seems.

I would also take a great deal of umbrage, if this is being applied loosely to some here, I despise insinuations and presumption, so do correct me if I am wrong but;

To be proven false will for most who know us mark us as an "i told you so" in reference to our claims, and so enable them renewed comfort in Christianity as usual ...

And that not the later, am unsure what level of comfort you might mean, but the former, do you not know us far better than that?

It seems quite the leap to be almost ... predicting the outcome and reaction expected. Perhaps it was general comment meant in no particular direction.

Let me back up just a hair;

If events come forth as fore-told then God Himself proves us ...

Look, you guy's both make this even more difficult and convoluted because you are true Brethren, not 'false' 'prophets'. Time indeed will tell and it may only be the latter part that is errant ... perhaps [i]wrong[/i] prophets or just not prophets at all.

There is still a very large question not being answered spiritually, that many of us do not have a similar witness of spirit, you do recognize your Brethren here right? That this is not just a casual bunch ... Oh I don't need to say it.

There is still a chance you could both be dead on. But I just don't honestly know, nor sense it. And that is of no real matter anyway, whatever I might think. I do however sense that all that is written is indeed in motion and on it's way, when?, I have no other thing to recall than the Lord stating that it is not for us to know the times and seasons in that ultimate future (Act's 1:7), to watch and pray, pay attention, certainly we will know when it draws near if it be in our life time.

It still needs to be said that there could be some serious ramifications from all this, something of a soberness seems missing from a great deal of these prognostications.

My prayers regardless.

Rahman 2007/1/8 18:32 writes

So as we've talked about previously the gauntlet has already been thrown down, all is written here on SI Forum, the line drawn in the sand back in 2006 - behind that now closed door ... In this new year of 2007, with a "new" door standing agape before us, there's nothing left for us to do or say on this subject, as the only thing left remaining is to WAIT ON GOD to prove us "live" or "memorex" ...

Rest in Him my brother, we're already here and don't have much longer to wait! ...

the secular media is saying the same thing.
fox tv aint prophisying they are just discerning the times we live in!

That is just a very flat statement, I mean no other thing by it. The thing that I find a constant wonder is the never ending explaining and defending that is being done. Where is the self-abasing, couldn't care less attitude of the past prophets, not that they couldn't care less about the burden and the word and the fear and trembling, all those things, but I do mean for their selves?

This is the striking thing about the prophets. They never seemed to qualify anything they said. They just spoke as the Spirit gave utterance. They inquired into the Spirit that was in them what He testified- because sometimes they didn't understand what was being said- especially the full on implications. I have heard a few people 'prophecy' various disasters this year. We need not know much more than we already know. We have been warned enough in scripture to get our houses in order.

Reminds me of the rich man who lifted up his eyes in hell. The idea he had was- if something "SHOCKING" enough comes to my family they will turn to God in repentance. But Jesus said they have Moses and the prophets and if they won't believe the word of God- they will not believe even if a person comes back from the dead. This is a sobering reality. The message I hear in from it is that the sensational will not move a hardened sinner if God's word won't. Not miracles and not anything else; not even a full-on resurrection from the dead. So prophecies of destruction may serve some for informational purposes- but I doubt that it will have much effect on turning folk to Christ as they already have more than sufficient light and they reject that.

I don't completely understand the purpose of a New Testament prophet,

I love this little example of a prophet [color=0000ff]“And it came to pass, when the children of Israel cried out to the LORD because of the Midianites, that the LORD sent a prophet to the children of Israel, who said to them, “Thus says the LORD God of Israel: ‘I brought you up from Egypt and brought you out of the house of bondage; and I delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians and out of the hand of all who oppressed you, and drove them out before you and gave you their land. Also I said to you, “I am the LORD your God; do not fear the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.” But you have not obeyed My voice.’ ””
(Judg 6:7-10 NKJV)[/color] This man has 'insight' from God and delivers it with conviction as 'thus says the LORD'. This man is claiming that God is speaking through him.

In the NT period there are references to itinerant prophets, the best known being Agabus: [color=0000ff]“And in these days prophets came from Jerusalem to Antioch. Then one of them, named Agabus, stood up and showed by the Spirit that there was going to be a great famine throughout all the world, which also happened in the days of Claudius Caesar.” (Acts 11:27-28 NKJV)

“Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. Now this man had four virgin daughters who prophesied. And as we stayed many days, a certain prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. When he had come to us, he took Paul’s belt, bound his own hands and feet, and said, “Thus says the Holy Spirit, ‘So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man who owns this belt, and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’ ”” (Acts 21:8-11 NKJV)[/color]This is a useful reference in that it speaks of people who 'prophesy' and of one who is a 'prophet'. Not everyone who prophesied was a prophet, not everyone who preached the gospel was an evangelist. It seems that some became well known for their 'gift' to such an extent that the gift characterised the man and some became 'prophets'. As far as I know, no one in the NT received a prophetic commission of the kind we read about in Isaiah or Jeremiah. Their ministry proved them to be prophets not their claims. There is a sobering warning of folk who claim things that we find in the book of the Revelation;[color=0000ff]“...And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;” (Rev 2:2 NKJV)[/color]Very frequently the word is found in the plural [color=0000ff]Acts 11:27 (KJVS) And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.
Acts 13:1 (KJVS) Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain [u]prophets [/u]and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
Acts 15:32 (KJVS) And Judas and Silas, being [u]prophets[/u] also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.
1Cor. 12:28 (KJVS) And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily [u]prophets[/u], thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1Cor. 14:29 (KJVS) Let the [u]prophets[/u] speak two or three, and let the others judge.
Eph. 4:11 (KJVS) And he gave some, apostles; and some, [u]prophets[/u]; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; [/color]... and it is interesting that when functioning in the local church Paul insists that their utterances should be assessed by their peers; 1Cor 14:29 It seems to me that we never find prophets working in independence or isolation; there is collective accountability.

It is important to distinguish between the occasional prophetic utterance in which [color=0000ff]“...you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged.” (1Cor 14:31 NKJV)[/color] and the settled authority of a man identified as 'a prophet'.

Those referred to as 'prophets' in the NT are not wearing badges, they are identified as prophets because of their life and ministry. Words like 'apostle' and 'prophet' (and pastor!) were never used as titles or badges in the NT; they are simply descriptions of what they do. The modern phenomena of self-styled prophets is something quite different from the NT history. Such men usually claim to be 'prophets' to enhance their status and reception by others, rather than being called 'prophets' by others who have recognized a unique gifting in God.

As regards 'purpose'... they brought divine 'insight' into the gatherings of the saints.

bro Ron
happy new year to you and i must say i was most blessed and encouraged by your post

God bless you in this new year!

and it is interesting that when functioning in the local church Paul insists that their utterances should be assessed by their peers; 1Cor 14:29 It seems to me that we never find prophets working in independence or isolation; there is collective accountability.

In general, what happens when there is no 'collective accountability' and one individual gets up and tells the whole people what God is setting as the direction of the church without accountability or discussion? Would this be a biblical practice or should the people be alarmed? In today's pastoral setting they are generally given almost absolute authority with a mandate not to touch them lest you "touch the Lord's anointed." Is this practice biblical?

In today's pastoral setting they are generally given almost absolute authority with a mandate not to touch them lest you "touch the Lord's anointed." Is this practice biblical?

“Do not repay anyone evil for evil.. Do not take revenge..” Rom. 12:7,9

Anyone trying to claim amnesty based on the words “touch not the Lord’s anointed” is not exactly complimenting himself.

Diane

We have discussed this at some length at different times but perhaps it doesn't hurt to say one or two things again.

This is a tremendous help Ron. The brains are leaky vessels as well. Good to hear this and to consider again.

philologos wrote:
For Ironman this is certainly true. We are on a countdown to Dec 2007 as I remember; then we shall see whether or not he is a prophet.

I think the reference Robert was using was: 1Ch 16:22 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm. or Psa 105:15 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.

I like what has been said because Pastor Bailey is right on when it comes to people operating in giftings as oppossed to being a gift from God to the Body of Christ, i.e. the Five fold ministry listed in Eph. I was in an Assembly's of God church where a man came in who claimed to be a prophet, he really did much harm and used the pulpit to speak cursings rather than warnings and blessings or instruction. That mess took some time to clear up
:-( any way, local accountability is always best. And sound doctrine with in the prophetic utterence is always to be expected. I always watch for the balance of grace and repentance in the midst of judgement and turmoil. If the Word spoken lacks grace and mercy I always (personally speaking) toss it aside and wait patiently on the Lord to hear for myself. We are all His children and are all able to hear His voice :-)

I think the reference Robert was using was: 1Ch 16:22 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm. or Psa 105:15 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.

I always watch for the balance of grace and repentance in the midst of judgement and turmoil. If the Word spoken lacks grace and mercy I always (personally speaking) toss it aside

Diane

These sermons really blessed me and broadened my understanding of the subject of prophecy and prophets. Highly recommend to check out.

http://www.cfcindia.com/web/mainpages/video_message.php?issue=69&date=06_09&title=The+Truth+About+Prophecy+%3A+1.+Introduction+To+Prophecy

http://www.cfcindia.com/web/mainpages/video_message.php?issue=70&date=06_09&title=The+Truth+About+Prophecy+%3A+2.+Prophecy+In+The+Old+Testament

http://www.cfcindia.com/web/mainpages/video_message.php?issue=71&date=06_09&title=The+Truth+About+Prophecy+%3A+3.+Prophecy+In+The+New+Testament

Hi everyone.

Mahoney,

I believe a true prophet is consumed with Jesus Christ. He/ she are not consumed with coming calamities, and as was stated, anyone can read the signs of the times and predict coming calamities.

But only those who know Jesus can reveal Jesus. In a sense, anyone who knows Christ...anyone who has experienced His Life, has the ability to be a prophet.

This second part especially reminds me of Revelation 19:10. Compare with Revelation 22:9 also.

Chris