Can Satan and his angels be saved?

I don't think so. Revelation makes it very clear that Satan and his angels along with everyone else whose name is not in the Book of Life will be thrown into the lake of Fire.

J-bird wrote:
So don't worry. I'm not trying to justify satan or his angels.J-bird

Your not trying to be the Devils advocate? :-P

okay, I can't think big enough to figure out what made their fall worse than ours. my head hurts just trying. I will wait for your revelation... :)

Can satan be saved? If not. Why? If so. How?

No. Satan cannot be saved.

Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 speaks of Satan's attempt to become a god.

Also, Acts 13:10 tells us that the devil is the "enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy,"

1 John 3:8 says, "Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil."

BTW, what is your purpose for asking this question? Surely you do not think there is hope for Satan...do you?

okay, I can't think big enough to figure out what made their fall worse than ours. my head hurts just trying. I will wait for your revelation... :)

Angels are spirits. I'm not sure how time works for spirits. It is recorded of even a Jezebel in the Revelation that [color=0000ff]“...I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent.” (Rev 2:21 NKJV)[/color] I am not sure if spirits can be given 'time to repent'.

Adam's temptation was external but the angels' chose their own way without outside influence.

They have much more 'revelation' than human beings. [color=0000ff]““But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.” (Matt 24:36 NKJV)[/color]

The real issue is that we do not have a biblical revelation of the angels' story and it is only where their story touches ours that we have any insights at all.

Others may have more insights but this will certainly be one thread where my sign-off will fit the bill.

I only meant 'revelation' in the context that J-Bird would reveal what his intentions behind the question were. ;-)

JaySaved wrote:
Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 speaks of Satan's attempt to become a god.

Wasn't satan actually trying to replace God?

The Law must be used to let it be understood why we need a Savior. most people don't understand the reason something is a sin is because it is is offensive to a Holy God.

JaySaved wrote:
Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 speaks of Satan's attempt to become a god.

MSeaman wrote:
Wasn't satan actually trying to replace God?

I thought about using that terminology but the reason I wrote that Satan tried to become 'a god' is because of Isaiah 14:14. Here are some translations of that passage:

English Standard Version (ESV)
"I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High."

King James Version (KJV)
"I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
"I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High."

New King James Version (NKJV)
"I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High."

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
"I go up above the heights of a thick cloud, I am like to the Most High."

I understood this to mean that Satan wanted to be like God, not to become God. Maybe it was Satan's intentions to replace God. Could be. I do understand that in the temptation of Jesus, Satan tried to get Jesus to worship and bow down before him. This could infer that Satan wanted to replace God, but it definitely means he wants to be like God.

The clearest reason for knowing that Satan cannot be saved is the fact that Christ only died for man because he became a man not an angel.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus

So are we condemned as a reult of being born into sin, or as a result of sin that we commited?

Both. Because man is born with a proclivity to sin, but this does not eradicate his ability to do works of benevolence. Yet to make sure that the works are of no use, the Law magnifies sin, so that sin abounds, and that every mouth is shut before the Law's verdict upon them.
Either way man must throw himself upon the Stone that is Christ for justification, and forgiveness of sin/sins.

JaySaved wrote:

I thought about using that terminology but the reason I wrote that Satan tried to become 'a god' is because of Isaiah 14:14.

I understood this to mean that Satan wanted to be like God, not to become God. Maybe it was Satan's intentions to replace God. Could be. I do understand that in the temptation of Jesus, Satan tried to get Jesus to worship and bow down before him. This could infer that Satan wanted to replace God, but it definitely means he wants to be like God.

I agree with your estimation. I'm sorry if I sounded nit picky, that wasn't my intention. I thought he was trying to become God.

edit:
Interesting that satan would try to get Jesus to bow down in worship before him...did satan not know Who Jesus was?

J-bird wrote:

MSeaman wrote:
The Law must be used to let it be understood why we need a Savior. most people don't understand the reason something is a sin is because it is is offensive to a Holy God.

But then would'nt that mean their a sinner as a result of not keeping the law, instead of being a sinner as a result of original sin?

j-bird

Aren't we sinners for both reasons?

Adam's temptation was external but the angels' chose their own way without outside influence.

That's what I have thought for a long time.

Hi everyone.

They have much more 'revelation' than human beings.

Have also thought that this may be one reason why it appears that redemption was possible for us and not them.

Considering also...

[b][color=660000]Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, [u]That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven[/u].[/color][/b]

This beholding being in mind here.

Then, considering the severity with which Moses was judged, that this also was said of him

[b][color=000000]And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew [u]face to face[/u],[/color][/b]

Most sinners believe that they are 'good people' because they compare themselves with others. You have to use the Law to show them that they are totally depraved and by God's standard, they are nothing but filthy beings deserving everlasting damnation.

Was the law used any in the preaching of the early church? Book of Acts

Yes, in just about every occurrence of preaching there is an element of the Law being given, as well as the resurrection, and coming judgement.
There are exceptions, such as the Ethiopian eunuch, but he was reading Isaiah 53, which explains the need for a substitute for sin.

J-bird wrote:
What about those that were here before the law? How did they know they were sinners? Was the law used any in the preaching of the early church? Book of Acts.

when you say before the Law, do you mean before Moses gave the Law? to be honest, I don't have enough knowledge to answer that. How did everyone from Seth to Noah who followed God, know the Law? How did they know not to do what the rest of the people were doing? How did Abraham decide to follow God?

Do you think the Law shouldn't be used?

Hi J-bird, and shalom or peace be unto you.

After beholding the glory of God, turning away from that glory? As a result the harsh judgement?

I think that is getting at it for sure, but [i]turning away[/i] does not seem to go far enough. It seems that under the surface here is the sense of having [i]intimate knowledge[/i].

I think just now of these words of the Lord Jesus which always struck me as peculiar and inviting more attention, where He says of Satan...

[b][color=660033] He was a murderer from the beginning, and [u]abode not in the truth[/u], because there is no truth in him. [/color][/b]

It is this...[i]abode not in the truth[/i] that is so peculiar. I think just now of how that, to dwell in the very Throne and unveiled Presence of God must certainly be the same as dwelling in the midst of, in and enveloped by, The Truth.

To go out then...

Perhaps this is why he is called the father of lies, the very act being perhaps the origin of the thing itself - that is, a lie.

[b][color=660033]When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.[/color][/b]

Just a step further here..

Two passages of scripture come to mind

[b][color=000000]...shall I fall down to the stock of a tree? He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?[/color][/b]

[i][b][color=000000]Is there not a lie in my right hand?[/color][/b][/i]

and...

[b][color=000000]Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands...They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.[/color][/b]

[i][b][color=000000]They that make them are like unto them[/color][/b][/i]

I hope you guys don’t mind me jumping in, but I’ve got an idea on why the devil and his angels can’t be saved. I believe this is a legitimate subject that we need to consider, lest we end up in the same condition. Also, this is only my take on the subject, so feel free to disagree and correct me as needed. And I’ll go ahead and warn everyone up front, this is a long post, but I couldn’t make it any shorter without taking away from it’s content. So please bear with me.

In order to understand why Satan cannot be saved, we must consider the nature of God’s salvation. The Bible says in Matt. 1:21 that the Holy Child’s name would be Jesus, “for He shall save His people from their sins.” According to this verse, God’s salvation is salvation from sin.

Now, what is sin? Taken at its lowest common denominator, we could define sin simply as rebellion—rebellion against God and His holy laws. It’s the refusal to submit to God as the Holy Sovereign of the universe and to willfully withhold from Him the love and honor that He deserves.

That said; now consider the fall of Satan, which according to Isaiah 14: 12-14 consisted of his being overtaken by pride, which resulted in his rebellion against the authority of God. Five times he declared his own selfish will over the will of Almighty God: “…I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, I will also sit on the mount of the congregation of the highest, I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the most high.” Thus Lucifer fell into sin—rebellion against God and His glorious kingdom—and then proceeded to persuade one third of the holy angels to enter into the rebellion as well.

Then we are told that Satan went into Eden, the garden of God, (Ezk. 28:13), where he was successful in spreading his rebellion to include man as well. Through his cunning and deceit, he conned Adam and Eve into throwing off the righteous authority of God and deceived them into believing that they could become “like God” by living for themselves instead of serving God. Thus man fell into sin—rebellion against God.

Now please consider God’s great work of salvation: is it not to turn our rebellious hearts back to Him? “…to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God…” (Acts 26:18). And what is God’s means whereby He accomplishes this? It is the cross of Christ—the Atonement! “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us” (Rom. 5:8). You see, the only way that God can accomplish this salvation without violating the free-will of His rebellious moral creatures is by the power of moral persuasion. Thus, the power of Christ atonement; it is the powerful demonstration of God’s love, such as is needed to break our rebellious hearts and turn us back to allegiance to Him. It is the only thing in the universe that is powerful enough to undo the effect of sin. Charles Finney is quoted as saying, “If the love of God as demonstrated in the cross of Christ will not persuade men to repent, then neither can promises of heaven or threats of hell.”

However, though God has given us this powerful demonstration of His love, it’s our choice as to how we respond to this knowledge—will we allow ourselves to be broken by it and restored to fellowship with God, or will we reject it and thereby harden ourselves unto destruction? It’s how we are affected by this revelation of God’s love, once we have received it, that determines whether or not we ourselves can be saved. Once we have been made aware of the love and goodness of God as demonstrated in Christ’ sacrifice, the question to be answered is: Are we moved to repentance and faith by this knowledge, and are we kept there by it? As Finney implied, if the love of God as demonstrated in Christ’ atonement is not enough to break us and keep us broken before God, then we are beyond hope of salvation.

The Bible is full of warnings concerning this matter:

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame” (Heb. 6: 4-6).

“For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, ‘Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,’ says the Lord. And again, ‘The Lord will judge His people.’ It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God” (Heb. 10: 26-31).

“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the proverb: ‘A dog returns to his own vomit,’ and ‘a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire’” (2 Pet. 2: 20-22).

My point is simply this, if Christ’ sacrificial sufferings are not enough to break our rebellion and bring us back into right relationship with God and keep us there, then we are beyond hope of salvation.

Now what does this have to do with why there is no salvation for the devil and his angels? Consider what Satan fell away from. The Prophet Ezekiel says that he was the anointed cherub who covered, established by God, and even on the holy mountain of God. He was perfect until iniquity was found in him. Satan had personal, first-hand knowledge of God. He lived in the very presence of God. He had personal revelation of the awesome nature and character of God—he had first-hand knowledge of the love and wisdom of God, of the power of God. Yet, in spite of all of this revelation knowledge of God, he still chose to rise up in rebellion against the Almighty. He had full knowledge of the choice he was making and the consequences of that choice (as did all the fallen angels). Therefore, there is nothing that God could ever do to turn him back—there is no atonement that God could offer that would be effective to turn him back from his rebellion. He and his angels made an eternal choice to trample underfoot the love and goodness of God. So, we could say that the reason why the devil cannot be saved is because he refuses to be! His choice to reject God was in full knowledge of what he was choosing—yet he still chose it. Behold the selfishness and stupidity of sin!

In conclusion, may we consider ourselves “lest there be in any of us an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God.” Our only hope of salvation is in the cross of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. If we are not moved to give up our rebellion and return to right relationship with our heavenly Father because of the love He has demonstrated to us in Christ’ sufferings, then we are beyond hope, just like Satan and his demons. The sad reality is that there are people who hear of Christ suffering and pouring out His life for them, yet they are unmoved. It doesn't affect them in the least. It's as though they were saying to God, "I don't need your Son's sacrifice. You just wasted Him for nothing." Also, as the Bible states, there are those who have actually tasted the heavenly gift, but like the backsliding Children of Israel, have chosen to reject Christ and go back to Egypt. What do you suppose shall be the end of the unrepentant and apostates, seeing how they spit upon God’s most precious Sacrifice? They shall surely spend eternity with their father, Satan in hell.

And thus, from all of this it should now be obvious why God had to create hell in the first place, because all those who refuse to love and honor Him must have somewhere to spend eternity. So, Satan and his demons, along with all rebellious, unrepentant human beings, will get exactly what they desired—a place void of the love and goodness of God; a place of absolute, unrestrained sin and rebellion.

Well that’s my take on why I don’t believe Satan can be saved. Sorry I got so long-winded, but some things just can’t be explained in a sentence or two.

God bless.

Billy7 wrote:
Satan had personal, first-hand knowledge of God. He lived in the very presence of God. He had personal revelation of the awesome nature and character of God—he had first-hand knowledge of the love and wisdom of God, of the power of God. Yet, in spite of all of this revelation knowledge of God, he still chose to rise up in rebellion against the Almighty. He had full knowledge of the choice he was making and the consequences of that choice

That's a good point that I did not considered, Logic.

I think there are two main differences that must be considered when we compare the fall of Satan with the fall of Adam. First, consider the environment from which Satan fell, it was eternal in nature. Therefore, I believe that the scope of Satan's revelation of God and the knowledge of Who and What he was rejecting was much greater than Adam's.

My point was to suggest that when Satan made his decision to reject the love and authority of God, this was a perfect, permanant rejection/rebellion on his part from which he could not be recovered from by any means. His deception was self-induced, it was a self-imposed final choice to rebel against God in full knowledge of what he was choosing.

And this brings me to the second difference to consider and it is this, whereas Satan's choice was self-induced, Adam and Eve were decieved by one (Satan) who possessed greater knowledge and revelation of God than what they possessed. Their rebellion was the result of a temptation that was brought about through Satan's use of his greater knowledge of God, and of their own nature as well, I might add.

Also, consider the difference in the environment from which Adam and Eve fell as opposed to the one from which Satan fell, it was not eternal, at least as far as we can tell from the Bible. Therefore, Adam and Eve's knowledge and revelation of God was far more limited than that which Satan possessed due to his eternal perspective of God. Adam and Eve's decision to rebel was not made in perfect knowledge of what they were choosing. Do you suppose that they really understood what it would mean to die?

Finally, I think the final thought to consider is this, it seems to be that there is only one thing in the universe that can turn rebellious hearts back to proper loving relationship with a holy God, and that thing is Atonement--a proper demonstration of God's awesome sacrificial love. But even that, as powerful as it is, is not enough to recover every rebel. There are some who simply will not be convinced to love and trust their Creator no matter what--they are simply lost forever, because they choose to be so.

Also J-bird, just like to add that I do beleive that Adam and Eve were recovered from their rebellion by God's demonstration of love toward them; a deminstration that consisted of His offering a sacrifice on their behalf in order to cover their nakedness, and His promise to provide a future Atonement that would cover the whole of the human race:

"And I will put enmity between you and the woman (God in speaking to the serpent), and between your seed and her seed; He (Jesus) shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel" (Gen. 3: 15).

Satan is the great terrorist, he chose to be on his own, he wanted God's throne. If he could not have it, he would corrupt the created beings of God on this earth and get them to choose to serve him rather than believe and serve God. Adam believed a Lie, Eve was deceived and she ate. Satan was the deceiver, Adam's choice to eat was to believe what he saw not what God had said. "Don't eat", and in eating he chose to believe Satan and became a believer of Satan. If a believer of Satan, who was born in Adam? It was the spirit of another created being, Satan, who was now of "your father the devil".

If we believe in Christ, we are born again by a Father, like Christ, born of Incorruptable Seed and became the only Begotten Son of God. Now if we believe the truth, we become the same, birthed children of God. Christ Born Again in us by His Incorruptable Seed of the Father.

Satan out, a created being. Christ in a birthed being of a Father, God, which now makes our Glory of the Father by the Christ in us. Not the glory of Satan by association in believing his lie. Do we want the glory of association of a created being or a birthed being.

What is the Hope of our Glory? Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

In this Glory we now can take on the Glory of Christ Himself: Colossians 3:1-4 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

We were crucified to sin with Christ: Galatians 2:16-17 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. No because we are dead to sin with Christ: Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 6:1-7 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Satan chose to be God. Adam had no idea what he was doing, until his eyes were opened and he and Eve knew, that is had the knowledge that they were now running from God. So they Hid.

But God already had a plan to redeem what they had done to mankind, now a slave of Satan.

Ephesians 1:1-12 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

How? Ephesians 2:7-10 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

By the Enmity, between Satan's offspring, (Adam and Eve). and God's Offspring, Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

In Christ: Phillip

universalism is the belief in the restitution of all fallen beings to a state of blessedness. Some of them believe only in the restoration of all human beings to blessedness, not only Christians, but all human beings finally to blessedness. Then there is another kind of moral-exhaustive universalism, which teaches not only the restitution of all human beings, but the devil and all the fallen angels. They’re very generous and take in everything, every [believer], every human, and every creature that has fallen and sinned against God. Now this is a dream born of desire, and this universalism, the teaching that every moral creature would finally be saved, is a dream born of desire, and it springs from humanitarian motives, no doubt. Humanitarian feelings [willing to bless] lead us to desire the salvation of all. But it is not taught in the Scriptures. The Bible specifically states that except ye repent ye shall all likewise perish. And it pictures us a Hell, where the devil and his angels are, and all that are not found in the book of life are finally consigned. So the teaching of the Bible is definitely not universalism, and whatever this passage teaches, which I have read in your hearing, it does not teach universalism.

Dr. Aw TOzer

The clearest reason for knowing that Satan cannot be saved is the fact that Christ only died for man because he became a man not an angel.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus

John 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

The death of Jesus is the determining cause, the grand crisis, the concentration of all that God has ever done, or ever will do, to break down the kingdom of Satan, and set up His power over man. Thus was fulfilled the prediction.
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The death of Christ is to be the most grand and effectual of all means that is used to establish the authority of the law perfectly fulfilled by Christ and the establishment of the government of God, with Christ as King on David's Throne until all is under His foot and all is returned to the Father. Ephesians 1:20-23 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave Him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.

This it did by showing the regard which God had for his law; by showing his hatred of sin, and presenting the strongest motives to induce man to leave the service of their father Satan; by securing the influences of the Holy Spirit, by the Prayer of Jesus Christ and The Father's answer, The Holy Spirit in you as Teacher of The Christ in you and by His putting forth His own direct power, that is Christ in you the Hope of Glory, in the cause of virtue and of God by His power in the believer by His Son who is now our revealer of the things of the Kingdom of God, by being Born Again of Incorruptable Seed, again Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

No more Satan in you, but judged and condemned and will be eliminated completely.

In Christ: Phillip

J-bird wrote:
Can satan be saved? If not. Why? If so. How?

i havent read the whole thread so if anyone said this im sorry for repating it,

but isent it so that satan and the angels knew what they where doing when they rebelled?
and adam and eve where decived by the devil?

what i meen is the devil wasent decived....
he knew what he was doing. Adam and eve knew the consecuenses but since they listend to the "deciver" they got puniched but since God so loved the "world" he sent his only son to save us?

this is just m thoughts, im i way of track here?

[b]Eze 28:15[/b] [color=990000]Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.[/color]

Sin was found in Lucifer, meaning, it wasn't there before.
He sined against the LAW Himself while Adam sined against a law(Gen 2:17)
For now he saw through a glass, darkly(1Co 13:12, 2Co 3:18)and knew, only
Lucifer saw HIM face to face and knew just as also he is known

There is no way to redeem one who does not have blood for life.
[b]Lev 17:11[/b] [color=990000]For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the alter to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.[/color]
[b]Heb 9:22[/b] [color=990000]for without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin[/color]
Therefore, Jesus cannot be a proxy for angels since he would not be able to shed blood.