The Blood of Christ

The Blood of Christ

Part 1 of several parts

The Bible tells us in detail, over and over of how precious is the Blood of Jesus Christ. If we study His Word we find that Christ’s flesh came from Mary, and Christ’s blood was supplied by God through the Holy Ghost. Christ’s blood was sinless blood and Christ was sinless. Christ’s blood was Divine Blood and Christ was Divine. Christ’s blood was innocent blood and Christ was innocent. Christ’s blood was incorruptible blood and Christ was incorruptible.

[b]Paul tells us that Christ was made of the “seed of David according to the flesh":[/b]

" 1. Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2. (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3. CONCERNING HIS SON JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD, WHICH WAS MADE OF THE SEED OF DAVID ACCORDING TO THE FLESH; 4. And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: 5. By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: 6. Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: 7. To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 1:1-7)

We find Christ’s lineage given to us in Luke (3:23-28) through Mary, which goes back to King David, and then still further back to the beginning of time, all the way to Adam, who was the son of God! Christ’s linage is also given to us through Joseph in the Book of Matthew (Ch 1:1-17) and shows us the lineage through Joseph from Abraham to King David to Joseph. Since Christ was not Joseph’s physical son, but came from Mary’s loins through the power of the Holy Ghost, we know that his flesh was supplied by Mary and here lineage, that goes all the way back to David.

We also know through scripture that the Holy Spirit overcame Mary, and she conceived:

“And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus. 32. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33. And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34. Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35. And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.” [Luke 1:30-35 ]

Mary was a direct descendant of King David which gave Jesus the right to ascend the Jewish throne, both through Mary and through adoption by his foster father, Joseph. Mary's genealogy is supplied in Luke 3:23-38. Dr. Henry Morris explains the genealogy in Luke:
"Joseph was clearly the son of Jacob (Matthew 1:16, so this verse [Luke 3:23 - says 'son of Heli'] should be understood to mean 'son-in-law of Heli.' thus, the genealogy of Christ in Luke is actually the genealogy of Mary, while Matthew gives that of Joseph. Actually, the word 'son' is not in the original, so it would be legitimate to supply either 'son' or 'son-in-law' in this context. Since Matthew and Luke clearly record much common material, it is certain that neither one could unknowingly incorporate such a flagrant apparent mistake as the wrong genealogy in his record. As it is, however, the two genealogies show that both parents were descendants of David--Joseph through Solomon (Matthew 1:7-15), thus inheriting the legal right to the throne of David, and Mary through Nathan (Luke 3:23-31), her line thus carrying the seed of David, since Solomon's line had been refused the throne because of Jechoniah's sin" [Dr. Henry M. Morris, The Defender's Study Bible, note for Luke 3:23 (Iowa Falls, Iowa: World Publishing, Inc., 1995).]

Thus we see that Jesus was clearly legally related to both parents (to Mary, by being born from her, and to Joseph by legal adoption)!
For thousands of years, every human child has been born with an inherited sin nature and sinful flesh (Romans 3:23 & 8:3). This is a result of our sinful first parent, Adam and to whom we are all genetically related. Each generation (without exception) has sinned (Rom. 3:23) and passed on its sinful nature and the curse of death, to each succeeding generation (the biblical doctrine of imputation of sin - Romans 5:12-19). There is only one exception in history to this. Although Jesus grew in the womb of Mary, in the same manner as any baby, he was different from all other babies. The reason? His blood was inherited from the Holy Spirit, and his flesh was inherited from Mary. The blood of Adam did not flow in His veins, as it flows in mine and yours.

Part 1 of several parts

The Blood of Christ

Part 2 of several parts

The following is from the works of M.R. Dehan, M.D. and titled “The Chemistry of the
Blood”

The Bible is a Book of blood. The Bible declares itself to be a “living” Book, the only living Book in the world and it is able to impart life to those who will believe with their hearts what it teaches.

In Hebrews 4:12 we read “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

The word translated “quick” in this verse is “Alive”, or “Living”. The Word of God is a living Word, wholly distinct from all other books for just one reason- it contains blood circulating through every page and in every verse. From Genesis to Revelation we see the stream of blood which imparts to this Book the very life of God. Without the blood the Bible would be like any other book and of no more value, for the Bible plainly teaches that THE LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD.

The one basic, fundamental principle that is found in the Bible is given to us in Leviticus 17:11 and states: “ For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.”

The same inspired principle appears again in 17:14: “For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof.”

Life, that mysterious something which scientists have never been able to define or fathom is said by God to be in the blood of the flesh, so that there can be no life without the blood. Although that is true of all flesh, we are mainly interested in human blood and particularly in the blood of the Man Jesus Christ because His blood was not only life as we think physically, but ETERNAL life as well.

[u][i][b]All related by Blood[/b][/i][/u]

All men are related by the blood of Adam, sinful and polluted blood, dead in trespasses and in sins. Scripture teaches that God-

“And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth” (Acts 17:26)

All men have a “common” origin in Adam. All men are blood relatives of Adam, whether they be white or black, Jew or Gentile, pagan or cultured. Their blood carries the sentence of death because of Adam’s sin, and for this reason all men die a common death, with no exceptions. Remember that THE LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD, and so if man must die it is because there is death in the blood. Although we do not know the nature of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, we do know the eating of it caused “blood poisoning” and resulted in death, for God had said:

“The day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”

So potent was this poison that six thousand years later, all who are related to Adam by human birth still succumb to that poison of sin, which is carried in some way in the blood. A review of the story of Adam’s creation will make clear this truth. We are told that God formed man out of the dust of the earth. Up to this time Adam was a lifeless clump of clay. Materially he was just so much dust, and merely molded into the shape of a man, but without life; he was a mere dummy. Then the record in God’s Word tells us that---

“God…breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”

The breath of God put something in man that made him ALIVE. That something was blood. It must have been. It be nothing else: for we have already shown that “THE LIFE OF THE FLESH IS IN THE BLOOD and so when life was added by the breath of God, He imparted blood to that clump of clay in the shape of a man, and man became a living soul. Adam’s body was of the ground. His blood was the separated gift of God, for God is Life and the Author of all life.

Part 2 of several parts

[b]The Blood of Christ[/b]

Part 3 of several posts

The following is from the works of M.R. Dehan, M.D. and titled “The Chemistry of the
Blood”

[u][b]Sin and Death[/b][/u]

Then man sinned and ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and HE DIED- DIED SPRITUALLY and ultimately, physically. Since LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD, when man died, something happened to the blood. Sin affected the blood of man, not his body, except indirectly, because it is supplied by the blood. For this very reason flesh can only be called sinful flesh because it is nourished and fed and sustained by sinful blood. And since God hath made of one blood all nations (Acts 17:26), sin is present in all of Adam’s progeny. For in that one sinned, all have sinned.

[b]The Virgin Birth[/b]

This very fact that sin affected the blood of man necessitated the VIRGIN BIRTH OF Christ if He was to be a son of Adam and yet a sinless man. For this very reason Christ could partake of Adam’s flesh, which is not inherently sinful, but He could NOT partake of Adam’s blood, which was completely sinful. God provided a way by which Jesus, born of a woman (not man), could be a perfect human being, but, because He had not a drop of Adam’s blood in His veins, He did not share in Adam’s sin. The plan of redemption revolves around the blood:
13. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14. How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? (Hebrews 9:13-14)

The whole plan of redemption rests upon the power of the blood the Lord Jesus Christ. The blood is the only tissue that is unlimited in its movement within the body. Almost all other body tissues are fixed, such as muscle, bone, never, fat and skin. They remain where they are. The blood is the only tissue that is not fixed, but circulates throughout the body to every living cell. There are other fluid products of the body, such as saliva and gastric juices, tears and bile, but those are not tissues, but secretions, and are not parts of the body but products of that body. The blood alone is the liquid tissue that can reach every single cell in the body and, therefore, unites all the members with the head and the individual members as well.

[u][b]Jesus Sinless[/b][/u]

The Bible teaches in addition that Jesus was a sinless man. Whereas all men from Adam to this day are born with Adam’s sinful nature and therefore are subject to the curse and eternal death, the Man Jesus was without sin and therefore deathless, until He took the sin of others upon Himself and died their death.

God has made of one blood all the nations of the earth. Even though Jesus, therefore, received His flesh, His body from a sinful race He could still be sinless as long as sinful blood was not in His body. God provided a way whereby Jesus could be perfectly human according to the flesh and yet not have the blood of sinful humanity. That was the problem solved by the virgin birth.

Part 3

[b]The Blood of Christ[/b]

Part 4

Origin of the Blood

It is understood that the blood which flows in an unborn babe’s arteries and veins is not derived from the mother but is produced within the body of the fetus. It is only after the sperm has entered the ovum and a fetus begins to develop that blood appears. As a very simple illustration of this, think of the egg of a hen. An unfertilized egg is simply an ovum on a much larger scale than the human ovum. You may incubate this unfertilized hen’s egg, but it will never develop. It will dry up completely but no chick will result. But let that egg be fertilized by the introduction of the male sperm and incubation will bring to light the presence of LIFE IN AN EMBRYO. After a few hours it visibly develops. In a little while red streaks occur, denoting the presence of blood. AND LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD according to Scripture, for

Moses says:

For the life of the flesh is in the blood (Leviticus 1 7:11)

For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof
Leviticus 17:14)

Mother’s Blood Separate

It is unnecessary that a single drop of blood be given to the developing embryo in the womb of the mother. Such is the case according to scientists. The mother provides the fetus with the nutritive elements for the building of that little body in the secret of her womb, but all the blood which forms in it is formed in the embryo itself. From the time of conception to the time of birth of the infant not one single drop of blood ever passes from mother to child. The placenta, that mass of temporary tissue known better as “afterbirth”, forming the link between mother and child, is so constructed that although all the soluble nutritive elements such as proteins, fats, carbohydrates, salts, minerals and even antibodies pass freely from mother to child and the waster products of the child’s metabolism are passed back to the mother’s circulation, no actual interchange of a single drop of blood ever occurs normally. All the blood which is in that child is produced within the child itself. The mother contributes no blood at all.

God’s Wonderful Provision

How wonderfully God prepared for the virgin birth of His Son. When He created woman He made her so that no blood would be able to pass from her to her offspring. In order to produce a sinless man who would yet be the son of Adam, God provided a way whereby that man would have a human body derived from Adam but have blood from a separate source. Some have tried to answer the question, “How could He be sinless & yet born of woman?” By making Mary the “Immaculate Virgin”. That however, does not answer the question of how Jesus was sinless.

It is plainly taught in Scripture that Jesus partook of human flesh without partaking of the effect of Adam’s blood. In Hebrews 2:14 we read:

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood he also himself
Likewise took part of the same…..

You will notice that the “children” that is, the human children, are said to be partakers of flesh and blood, and then, speaking of Jesus, this verse says that He himself likewise took part of the same. The word “took part” as applying to Christ is an entirely different word from “partakers” as applied to the children. In the margin of my bible, I read that the word translated, “took part” implies “taking part in something outside one’s self.” The Greek word for partakers if KOYNONEHO and means “to share fully,” so that all of Adam’s children share fully in Adam’s flesh and blood. When we read that Jesus “took part of the same” the word METECHO which means “to take part but not all.” The children take both flesh and blood of Adam but Christ took only part, that is, the flesh part, whereas the blood was the result of supernatural conception.

Jesus was a perfect human being after the flesh. He was of the seed of David according to the flesh, but blood is that part of a man which is the divine addition. In the creation of man, Adam’s body was made from the dust of the earth, but God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. Since life is in the blood, this act resulted in the formation of blood in Adam’s body, but the first Adam’s blood was corrupted and sin is in all mankind since God hath made of one blood all nations. In the last Adam and the second man, new and divine and sinless blood was produced in a body that was the seed of Adam and by this resulted in the production of:

Divine Blood

Conception by the Holy Ghost was the only way the virgin birth could be accomplished. Mary nourished the body of Jesus and He became the seed of David according to the flesh. The Holy Spirit contributed the blood of Jesus. It is sinless blood. It is divine blood. It is precious blood, for there has never been any other like it. It is--------

Part 4

[b]The Blood of Christ[/b]

Part 5

The following is from the works of M.R. Dehan, M.D. and titled “The Chemistry of the Blood”

Innocent Blood

I have betrayed the innocent blood, Judas confessed in Matthew 27:4. Our Lord was innocent. He became like unto us in all things – sin only excepted; like unto us with one exception – instead of being conceived by a human father, He was conceived by a divine father. As a result, biologically, He had divine blood, sinless blood. Because this blood is sinless it is:

Incorruptible Blood

Sin made human blood corruptible. Soon after death, decay sets in and it begins in the blood. That is why meat must be drained well of its blood. That is why embalmers place the embalming fluid in the blood. David said that Jesus’ body should not see corruption. Though He was dead three days and three nights, His body did not corrupt. Because He was sinless they could not put Him to death but instead He laid down His life voluntarily that He might take it up again.

He arose by His own power, because death had no claim on Him except the claim of other’s sin, and when that was paid – Death cannot keep his prey-Jesus, my Savior; He tore the bars away – Jesus, my Lord. Up from the grave he arose,
with a mighty triumph o’er His foes.

Sinner, have you received this Savior and have you been washed in His Precious Blood? If not, you are still under the curse and the awful sentence of death. Why not accept Him today and hear Him as He says:

God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died
For us. Much more then, BEING NOW JUSTIFIED BY HIS BLOOD, we shall be saved from Wrath through Him (Romans 5:8,9)

God bless,

Stever

In reply to Philologos question:"Does he mean genetically? sinful blood?

Stever's response:

[b]Philologos, I have a question for you before I begin. Do you believe in original sin?[/b]

Yes, he does mean genetically, sinful blood. Ever since Adam sinned in the Garden all men have physically died for their sin, except Jesus Christ (who died for our sin) and rose from the dead in a new glorified body of flesh and bone on the third day. The Bible tells us:

" 22. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." (1 Cor 15:22-23)

It further tells us that history is comprised of only two men-the first Adam (in the Garden) and the last Adam (Jesus Christ). “And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.” (1 Cor 15:45)

“41. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43. It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.(1 Cor 15:41-50).

We all have a choice. If we believe God, and believe in Jesus Christ and in his crucifixion and sacrifice on the cross for us, in his death burial and resurrection, then we are made alive with Christ, raised together with Christ, are suffers with Christ, and at the rapture, will be glorified with Christ and spend eternity with Christ. If we do not believe God, then we will stand at the great White Throne Judgment and our own works will be compared to the standard- The Law. All of these people will be found guilty, and spend eternity in hell.

Romans further clarifies this issue:

8. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9. Much more then, BEING NOW JUSTIFIED BY HIS BLOOD, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. 12. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13. (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundant 18. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21. That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

All men are judged by God as sinners because of Adams sin. We have all inherited "sin nature" from the blood of Adam.

[u][b][color=CC0000]PHILOLOGOS, MY QUESTION STILL STANDS:[/color][/b][/u]

[b]Do you believe in ORIGINAL SIN?[/b]

God bless,

Stever

philologos wrote:

Then man sinned and ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and HE DIED- DIED SPRITUALLY and ultimately, physically. Since LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD, when man died, something happened to the blood. Sin affected the blood of man, not his body, except indirectly, because it is supplied by the blood. For this very reason flesh can only be called sinful flesh because it is nourished and fed and sustained by sinful blood.

Does he mean genetically? sinful blood?

philologos wrote:
I appreciated this long quotation from T Austin Sparks. It is very easy for Christians to get swept into superstition. The 'blood of Christ' had no magical qualities in itself. It splashed on the soldiers who crucified him but did not change them thereby. The blood is of worth not it itself, but because of He who shed it. The 'blood of Christ' is Bible shorthand for 'the life of the Son poured out for us at Calvary'.

Stever responds:

There we have it- the expert to guide us where? Because I am a Christian believer that believes in the efficy (effectiveness) of Christ's Blood I am now branded SUPERSTITIOUS.

That is the way the "Spiritual" and "Supernatural" is dealt with here. We see no posts on "Spiritual Warfare" and how to apply the Blood of Christ that are allowed to progress. We see no posts here on how to "Bind and Loose", that are allowed to progress. No, that is too radical, too wacky, too supernatural, too "SUPERSTITIOUS" to be allowed. One of the "big guns" is sent in to kill it, and end it.

xxxxxxxxxxxx
Philologos posted:"The 'blood of Christ' had no magical qualities in itself. It splashed on the soldiers who crucified him but did not change them thereby. The blood is of worth not it itself, but because of He who shed it. The 'blood of Christ' is Bible shorthand for 'the life of the Son poured out for us at Calvary'."

Stever's response: My Bible tells me that Christ's blood was shed for all, but only APPLIES (works) for those that BELIEVE. The above statement that it did not change the Roman Soldiers is ridiculous on its face value. Unless they were believers, or came to belief later, it had no power for them. The same as today- Christ's shed blood is in heaven, applied to the mercy seat. Does it mean that all of mankind is saved? No, again it only applies to those that believe!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Stever Continues:

Yet the Bible has another view on this matter (than that of Philologos) of the efficy and power of THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST. It starts at the beginning of the Bible,and continues to it's end-- that I will continue to post here:

"For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; [b]but into heaven itself, now TO APPEAR IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD FOR US” (Hebrews 9:24). Jesus had to appear before God the Father with HIS shed blood.[/b] This is why He told Mary not to touch Him when He arose from the dead. “Jesus saith unto her, TOUCH ME NOT; FOR I AM NOT YET ASCENDED TO MY FATHER: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God” (John 20:17). If Mary had touched Jesus, the blood sacrifice would have been tainted with corruption.

Jesus was heading towards heaven with the blood which needed to be applied to the mercy seat in Heaven. [b] “Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an HIGH PRIEST, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens” (Hebrews 8:1). Jesus is our High Priest! “Seeing then that we have a great HIGH PRIEST, that is passed into the heavens, JESUS THE SON OF GOD…” (Hebrews 4:14). Jesus’ tabernacle is in Heaven, not on earth, “A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man” (Hebrews 8:2).[/b]

The mercy seat is located within this tabernacle in Heaven, just as it was in the Old Testament tabernacle. God had required for the Jewish High Priest to perform a ceremonial sacrifice once per year to atone for the sins of the Israelite people. The sacrifice pictured the coming Messiah Who would someday die on the cross for the sins of all people. This ceremonial event ceased when Christ died on the cross because the shadow of things to come was now obsolete, Jesus had fulfilled the prophecy. The Old Testament tabernacle, priests, Holy of Holies and mercy seat were all a shadow (or replica) of the tabernacle and in Heaven. [b] “Who serve unto the EXAMPLE AND SHADOW OF HEAVENLY THINGS, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount” (Hebrews 5:8). The Old Testament tabernacle was a mirror image of the tabernacle in Heaven where Christ would someday make the atonement with His shed blood. Jesus used His own blood which was shed on the cross to atone for our sins. Christ’s blood was applied to the mercy seat in heaven.[/b] [b][color=990000]For anyone to teach that Jesus’ blood is not of importance is a wicked lie. For anyone to diminish the necessity of the blood atonement is an abomination unto God. [/color][/b]

[b]The Blood Applied in Heaven[/b]
Just as the Jewish High Priest was required to enter into the Holy of Holies once a year, likewise Christ had to enter into the Holy of Holies to appear before God. The Old Testament tabernacle was divided into three parts: the outer court, the inner court and then the Holy of Holies. Only certain priests who followed certain cleansing rituals were allowed into the inner court. Absolutely no one could enter into the Holy of Holies except a certain high priest once a year. Disobeying certain rules meant death. For example, if the high priest entered into the Holy of Holies without the lamb’s blood, God would have killed him. The blood atonement is sacred to God. This is serious business with our Lord. We must not make light of something that God holds dear. “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; [b]But WITH THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST,[/b] as of a lamb without blemish and without spot” (1st Peter 1:18,19). Jesus is precious! Jesus’ blood is precious! What a Wonderful and Loving God that He would provide salvation to us through His own suffering and sacrifice, surely there is no greater love than this. Do you fail to see God’s love towards mankind? If so, it is only because of your prideful unbelief. Believe my friend and let God have His way with your heart.

[b]Jesus' Blood Washes Our Sins Away[/b]
Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God. Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water” (Hebrews 10:19-22).[b]As believers, We are not to live with guilt over the past. We are to sprinkle our past sins and mistakes with the blood of Jesus. What this means is that you must realize in your mind that Christ’s blood has washed your sins away and they are gone forever. “...Unto him that loved us, and WASHED US FROM OUR SINS IN HIS OWN BLOOD” (Revelation 1:5). [/b]

[b]Christ Atoned Once For ALL[/b]
Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did ONCE, when he offered up himself” (Hebrews 7:27). This is important to understand, Jesus died and atoned for our sins ONCE. Jesus is not still hanging on a cross as Catholicism portray Him. The Catholic religion teaches that when you take the Lord’s Supper (Holy Eucharist) that the bread and juice literally become the blood and body of Jesus Christ when digested. They believe this is necessary for renewed spiritual life. This of course is as ridiculous as it is totally unscriptural. The bread and juice simply remind us of what Christ has done for us to redeem us unto Himself, no more. There is NO magic power in partaking of the Lord’s Supper. Jesus does NOT die every time. Catholicism teaches that Jesus dies over and over again. This is NOT what the Bible teaches. Jesus died ONCE, He shed His blood ONCE, He applied the Blood ONCE—it is finished. “So Christ was ONCE offered to bear the sins of many” (Hebrews 9:28). “By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE for all” (Hebrews 10:10). Jesus did NOT stay on the cross, He did NOT remain in the grave, He arose triumphant over death and is alive forever more.

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ, the Blood of Jesus is real, and remains in heaven and can be applied supernaturly by prayer. Of course, everything of God is supernatural and He has made it possible for believers to have access to supernatural things to do His Work. That is what is missing in the Church today- POWER, that is received by the SUPERNATURAL POWER of the believer in PRAYER, and the knowledge of how to APPLY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

God bless,

Stever :-D

philologos wrote:

There we have it- the expert to guide us where? Because I am a Christian believer that believes in the efficy (effectiveness) of Christ's Blood I am now branded SUPERSTITIOUS.

If it had been possible to preserve Christ's blood in a vial, as the Roman Catholic church once believed, would that blood have had the power to take away sin?

Stever responds:

No, the Bible teaches us that it MUST be applied to the Mercy Seat.

In the Old Testament is the "picture" or "shadow" of what is required. In the Old Testament the blood of sheep and goats only COVERED the sin of the people at the Day of ATONEMENT. Not until the Messiah came did the picture become reality. Instead of covering sin with the blood of sheep and goats, Christ's sinless blood took away the sin of the whole world (only those who believe in Him are saved and will spend eternity with Him).
Christ was crucified, and rose again on the 3rd day, and ascended to heaven to apply his sinless perfect blood to the Mercy Seat in Heaven.

Christ's blood saves us from sin---

"If we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST HIS SON CLEANSETH US FROM ALL SIN" (1John1:7).

Joining a church DOES NOT cleanse from sin.

Being baptized in water DOES NOT cleanse from sin.

Living a good life DOES NOT cleanse from sin.

THE BLOOD OF JESUS - HIS BLOOD ALONE - cleanses from sin.

"THE WAGES OF SIN is death; but the GIFT OF GOD IS eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

The Bible tells us:
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now TO APPEAR IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD FOR US” (Hebrews 9:24).

It further teaches us:

“Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an HIGH PRIEST, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens” (Hebrews 8:1)

It further teaches us:
“Seeing then that we have a great HIGH PRIEST, that is passed into the heavens, JESUS THE SON OF GOD…” (Hebrews 4:14). Jesus’ tabernacle is in Heaven, not on earth, “A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man” (Hebrews 8:2).

It further teaches:
“Who serve unto the EXAMPLE AND SHADOW OF HEAVENLY THINGS, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount” (Hebrews 5:8).

The Old Testament tabernacle was a "mirror image" of the tabernacle in Heaven where Christ would someday make the atonement with His shed blood. Jesus used His own blood which was shed on the cross to atone for our sins. Christ’s blood was applied to the mercy seat in heaven.

The Bible further teaches:
“Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But WITH THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot” (1st Peter 1:18,19).

And Teaches us more on this:
Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God. Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water” (Hebrews 10:19-22).

And adds more to our understanding:
Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did ONCE, when he offered up himself” (Hebrews 7:27).

And more understanding:
“So Christ was ONCE offered to bear the sins of many” (Hebrews 9:28). “By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE for all” (Hebrews 10:10)

Philologos, how can you allegorize the Scripture in this regard? We are only humans, with limited (if any) understanding of spiritual things. God has explained to us in His Scripture about His plan, from the beginning in Genesis to the book of Revelation. Are you, with a human mind and body of flesh and blood dismissing the teaching (Doctrine) that is taught throughout the entire Bible?

Tyndale embraced the concept of the Blood, as well as many other giants in the hall of faith from long ago.

Tell me, how does any man have the right to allegorize and dismiss this teaching?

God bless,

Stever :-D

Philologos posted:

“Now the blood shall be a sign for you on the houses where you are. And when I see the blood, I will pass over you; and the plague shall not be on you to destroy you when I strike the land of Egypt.” (Ex 12:13 NKJV)`

You will see from this reference that the blood was for God's eyes. He saw the blood and passed over. The danger of the use of 'pleading the blood' is that it changes the orientation so that 'the blood' becomes a guard against evil powers. As far as I know there is no biblical example of 'the blood' being used as a spiritual barrier against evil forces.

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Stever responds to the above:

The blood of the sinless substitute still had to be PHYSICALLY applied by the Jewish believers. If the blood wasn’t physically applied the death Angel would take their own first born.

The Bible teaches us that the Old Covenant was teaching us in “pictures” and “types”, while the New Covenant was the real thing.

To apply this teaching for us today is to realize that the Old Covenant is only a “picture”, or a “type” of the New Covenant. In the past it (Blood) was physical (the physical application of blood on the doorposts and lentil, the physical blood applied to the altar, the physical blood applied to the Mercy Seat), today, in the New Covenant it is the Supernatural application of the Blood of our Sinless Substitute Jesus Christ through Prayer.

Today, when we pray, we have the authority to SUPERNATURALLY APPLY the Sinless, Perfect blood of our Savior Jesus Christ to any situation by the POWER OF PRAYER. In the Old Covenant, the sinless blood was APPLIED to the ALTAR, as well as THE MERCY SEAT. Today, in the New Covenant, we have the power to apply the Sinless Blood of Jesus Christ SUPERNATURALLY thorough PRAYER.

Why we should pray by the POWER OF THE BLOOD:

Since the blood of Jesus is our ground of confidence in coming to God for forgiveness of our sins, our mainstay in trouble, and the spring of all worthy obedience, so must it be our only plea in approaching our heavenly Father for all needed spiritual blessings. If we wish to have our own souls quickened and revived, or a great work of the Spirit achieved throughout the land, and millions of souls converted, the name of Jesus must be our only plea, as we come to plead for these blessings at the throne of grace. Another says:

In all true prayer, great stress should be laid on the blood of Jesus: perhaps no evidence distinguishes a decrease in the power and spirituality of prayer more strongly than an overlooking of this. Where the atoning blood is kept out of view, not recognized, not pleaded, not made the grand plea, there is a deficiency of power in prayer. [b]Words are nothing, fluency of expression nothing, niceties of language and brilliancy of thought nothing, where the blood of Christ - the new and living way of access to God, the grand plea that moves Omnipotence, that gives, admission within the holy of holies - is slighted, undervalued, and not made the groundwork of every petition[/b]. [u][b][color=0000CC]Oh, how much is this overlooked in our prayers - how is the atoning blood of Immanuel slighted!How little mention we hear of it in the sanctuary, in the pulpit, in the social circle! Whereas it is this that makes prayer what it is with God. All prayer is acceptable with God, and only so, as it comes up perfumed with the blood of Christ; all prayer is answered as it urges the blood of Christ as its plea; it is the blood of Christ that satisfies justice, and meets all the demands of the law against us; it is the blood of Christ that purchases and brings down every blessing into the soul; it is the blood of Christ that sues for the fulfilment of His last will and testament, every precious legacy of which comes to us solely on account of His death; this it is too that gives us boldness at the throne of grace.[/color][/b][/u] How can a poor sinner approach without this? How can he look up - how can he ask - how can he present himself before a holy God, - but as he brings in the hand of faith the precious blood of Jesus? Out of Christ, God can hold no communication with us; - all intercourse is suspended - every avenue of approach is closed - all blessing is withheld. God has crowned His dearly beloved Son, and He will have us crown Him too; and never do we place a brighter crown upon His blessed head than when we plead His finished righteousness as the ground of our acceptance, and His atoning blood as our great argument for the bestowment of all blessing with God. If, then, dear reader, you feel yourself to be a poor, vile, unholy sinner -if a backslider, whose feet have wandered from the Lord, in whose soul the spirit of prayer has declined, and yet still feel some secret longing to return, and dare not, because so vile, so unholy, so backsliding; yet you may return, 'having boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,’ (Heb. 10:19). Come, for the blood of Jesus pleads; return, for the blood of Jesus gives you welcome.

"If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous," (1 John 2:1). And if you are stirred in spirit for the souls of the perishing around you that they may be saved, and for the work of God that it may be revived, make mention of THE BLOOD OF JESUS, and you may rest satisfied that you "have the petitions, that you "desired of Him," (1 John 5:15). Jesus has passed His word, that on doing this you shall obtain the desires of your heart; for He says, "If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you, "(John 15:7). "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give, it you... Ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full," (John 16: 23, 24). If, then, there be no great revival of God's work, no great awakening and conversion of perishing souls, may it not be because this sin lieth at our door, that we have not used the blood of Jesus as our all-prevailing plea in prayer? Oh! let us no longer employ that "'precious blood "so sparingly in our pleadings for revival, but let us urge it as our only and our constant plea, and prove God herewith, whether He will not open to us the windows of heaven, and pour us out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it, (Mal. 3:10).

If we do not understand that Jesus Christ had special blood in His veins, blood supplied by the Holy Ghost, then the above makes no sense to our carnal minds.

The Bible tells us in detail, over and over of how precious is the Blood of Jesus Christ. If we study His Word we find that Christ’s flesh came from Mary, and Christ’s blood was supplied by God through the Holy Ghost. Christ’s blood was sinless blood and Christ was sinless. Christ’s blood was Divine Blood and Christ was Divine. Christ’s blood was innocent blood and Christ was innocent. Christ’s blood was incorruptible blood and Christ was incorruptible.

God bless,

Stever :-D

philologos wrote:

Today, when we pray, we have the authority to SUPERNATURALLY APPLY the Sinless, Perfect blood of our Savior Jesus Christ to any situation by the POWER OF PRAYER.

Please give me chapter and verse for this extraordinary claim. It makes no sense and has no Biblical basis. What does 'any situation' mean. Can I 'apply it' to my sick dog, to my annoying boss?

The blood that coursed through the veins of our Lord Jesus was human blood. He was of the seed of David. Unless you are suggesting that his body came from the forebears but that his blood was an entirely separate material which arrived without coming through David or Mary?

[b][color=0000FF]Stever's reply:[/color][/b]

For thousands of years, every human child has been born with an inherited sin nature and sinful flesh (Romans 3:23 & 8:3). This is a result of our sinful first parent, Adam and to whom we are all genetically related. Each generation (without exception) has sinned (Rom. 3:23) and passed on its sinful nature and the curse of death, to each succeeding generation (the biblical doctrine of imputation of sin - Romans 5:12-19). There is only one exception in history to this. Although Jesus grew in the womb of Mary, in the same manner as any baby, he was different from all other babies. The reason? His blood was inherited from the Holy Spirit, and his flesh was inherited from Mary. The blood of Adam did not flow in His veins, as it flows in mine and yours.

[b][color=0000FF]The Bible is a Book of blood.[/color][/b] The Bible declares itself to be a “living” Book, the only living Book in the world and it is able to impart life to those who will believe with their hearts what it teaches. In Hebrews 4:12 we read “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

The word translated “quick” in this verse is “Alive”, or “Living”. The Word of God is a living Word, wholly distinct from all other books for just one reason- it contains blood circulating through every page and in every verse. From Genesis to Revelation we see the stream of blood which imparts to this Book the very life of God. Without the blood the Bible would be like any other book and of no more value, for the Bible plainly teaches that THE LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD.

The one basic, fundamental principle that is found in the Bible is given to us in Leviticus 17:11 and states: “ For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: [b][color=CC0000]for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul[/color][/b]”

The same inspired principle appears again in 17:14: [b][color=990000]“For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof.”[/color][/b]

Life, that mysterious something which has never been defined or fathomed by scientists is said by God to be in the blood of the flesh, so that there can be no life without the blood. Although that is true of all flesh, we are mainly interested in human blood and particularly in the blood of the Man Jesus Christ because His blood was not only life as we think physically, but ETERNAL life as well.

[b][color=0000FF]All related by Blood[/b]:

[b]All men are related by the blood of Adam, sinful and polluted blood, dead in trespasses and in sins. Scripture teaches that God-[/b]

“And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth” (Acts 17:26)

All men have a “common” origin in Adam. All men are blood relatives of Adam, whether they be white or black, Jew or Gentile, pagan or cultured. Their blood carries the sentence of death because of Adam’s sin, and for this reason all men die a common death, with no exceptions. Remember that THE LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD, and so if man must die it is because there is death in the blood.

Although we do not know the nature of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, we do know the eating of it caused “blood poisoning” that resulted in death, for God had said:
“The day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”

b][color=0000FF]Sin and Death[/color][/b]

Then man sinned and ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and HE DIED- DIED SPRITUALLY and ultimately, physically. Since LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD, when man died, something happened to the blood. Sin affected the blood of man, not his body, except indirectly, because it is supplied by the blood. For this very reason flesh can only be called sinful flesh because it is nourished and fed and sustained by sinful blood. And since God hath made of one blood all nations (Acts 17:26), sin is present in all of Adam’s progeny. For in that one sinned, all have sinned.

So potent was this poison that six thousand years later, all who are related to Adam by human birth still succumb to that poison of sin, which is carried in some way in the blood.

The Virgin Birth:

This very fact that sin affected the blood of man necessitated the VIRGIN BIRTH OF Christ if He was to be a son of Adam and yet a sinless man. For this very reason Christ could partake of Adam’s flesh, which is not inherently sinful, but He could NOT partake of Adam’s blood, which was completely sinful. God provided a way by which Jesus, born of a woman (not man), could be a perfect human being, but, because He had not a drop of Adam’s blood in His veins, He did not share in Adam’s sin. The plan of redemption revolves around the BLOOD:

13. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14. How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? (Hebrews 9:13-14)

The whole plan of redemption RESTS upon the POWER of the blood the Lord Jesus Christ.

[b][color=0000FF]Jesus Sinless[/color][/b]

The Bible teaches in addition that Jesus was a sinless man. Whereas all men from Adam to this day are born with Adam’s sinful nature and therefore are subject to the curse and eternal death, the Man Jesus was without sin and therefore deathless, until He took the sin of others upon Himself and died their death.

What exactly does sinless really mean? The Sermon on the Mount clarifies that for us. Even thoughts of committing sin, without actually following through with the physical act is considered SIN. Also, breaking the law once, and sinning by thought or deed, is considered to be BREAKING GOD’S LAW. Christ was sinless his entire life, NEVER BREAKING THE LAW ONCE---Christ never sinned once, by thought or deed. Peter, a close friend of Jesus, was known as a man of action. Therefore, when he testified to the sinlessness of Jesus, in accord with his personality, he used the an action word: He (Jesus Christ) DID no sin (1 Peter 2:22).

Also, John had a very special friendship with the Lord Jesus. Consequently he frequently had the opportunity to observe his Lord when he was away from the critical scrutiny of the crowds. From this vantaged perspective John clearly testified that: in Him (the Lord Jesus) IS no sin (1 John 3:5).

Paul, on the other hand, was known as a scholar of some exceptions renown. Therefore when Paul, a man of learning and knowledge, spoke of the Lord Jesus, it is not surprising that he declared: He KNEW no sin (2 Cor 5:21).

The dying thief on the cross saw the glaring injustice of the Roman judiciary for condemning Jesus to the same death as the two thieves. Comparing their own deserved punishment to that of Jesus, he said:
1)\tWe are receiving what we deserve for our deeds.
2)\tAnd we indeed die justly…
3)\tThis man has done nothing wrong.
Being convicted of his own sin, he then pleaded: Jesus remember me when You come in Your Kingdom. The Lord Jesus responded immediately: Today you shall be with Me in Paradise (Luke 23:39-43).

Pontius Pilot, the roman Governor of Judea, who was certainly no friend of Jesus Christ had this to say about Him:
“I , having examined Him before you, have found no fault in this man touching things whereof you accuse Him (Luke 23:14).

God, on His throne in heaven, had this to say about Jesus Christ when He was about to commence His own public ministry: This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased (Matthew 3:17).

The Father knew that while Jesus had been in this world in human form, He had lived as God had created man to live. Every other person has fallen “Short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). But not Jesus! He was perfect in every way. Therefore, when Jesus was about to begin His public ministry, His Father introduced Him, and it was His Holy Father (John 17:11) who expressed good pleasure at the way His beloved Son lived.

The Lord Jesus was never anything less than God ( “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily”-Colossians 2:9). It is therefore awesome to realize that God had humbled Himself and, having condescended to be born through the womb of a virgin mother, had taken upon himself the form of a man. However, if Jesus as man had not been totally submissive to His Heavenly Father, He could never have brought undiluted pleasure to His Father. Yet, throughout His earthly pilgrimage Jesus was always obedient to, and dependent upon, His Father. Thus His humanity became the earthly expression of His Heavenly Father’s holiness, love and purpose in a world of suffering, selfishness and sin.

As man, Jesus walked upon the planet that He, as God, had created. Although the Lord Jesus was never less than God, for 33 years He showed man how God had intended man to live. Nothing in the humanity of Jesus ever vilolated what God had made man to be. During those years, He was always totally available to His Father in heaven. Therefore, the Father was “WELL PLEASED” WHEN He gazed upon His own beloved Son, who lived as the PERFECT man among men.

[b][color=0000FF]Guiltless! Sinless! Perfect! To the dying thief and Pontius Pilate, Jesus was guiltless. To Peter, John and Paul, Jesus was sinless. To the Holy Father in Heaven, Jesus was perfect. Guiltless! Sinless! Perfect![/color][/b]

God has made of one blood all the nations of the earth. Even though Jesus, therefore, received His flesh, His body from a sinful race. He could still be sinless as long as sinful blood was not in His body. God provided a way whereby Jesus could be perfectly human according to the flesh and yet not have the blood of sinful humanity. That was the problem solved by the virgin birth.

FALSE RELIGIONS

The “false religions” have always believed in the effacy (effectiveness) of human blood sacrifice to appease their false "gods":

In regards to human sacrifice, we find several examples following:

“Paul G. Mosca in his thesis (described below) translates Cleitarchus' paraphrase of a scholia to Plato's Republic as:

There stands in their midst a bronze statue of Kronos, its hands extended over a bronze brazier, the flames of which engulf the child. When the flames fall upon the body, the limbs contract and the open mouth seems almost to be laughing until the contracted body slips quietly into the brazier. Thus it is that the 'grin' is known as 'sardonic laughter,' since they die laughing.

Diodorus Siculus (20.14) wrote:
There was in their city a bronze image of Cronus extending its hands, palms up and sloping toward the ground, so that each of the children when placed thereon rolled down and fell into a sort of gaping pit filled with fire.

The reason for human sacrifice is suggested in its definition: ritual sacrifice involves offering human lives to deities as payment for favorable interventions in an event of special importance, to forestall unfavorable events, or to purchase disclosures about the physical world. Human sacrifice has been practiced on a number of different occasions and in many different cultures.

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[b][color=0000FF]However, the Bible specifically PROHIBITS human sacrifice:[/color][/b]

The pertinent Biblical texts follow. The word here translated literally as 'seed' very often means offspring. The forms containing mlk have been left untranslated. The reader may substitute either "to Moloch" or "as a molk".

Leviticus 18.21
And you shall not let any of your seed pass through Mo'lech, neither shall you profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.

Leviticus 20.2–5:
Again, you shall say to the Sons of Israel: Whoever he be of the Sons of Israel or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that gives any of his seed Mo'lech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. And I will set my face against that man and will cut him off from among his people; because he has given of his seed Mo'lech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name. And if the people of the land do at all hide their eyes from that man, when he gives of his seed Mo'lech, and do not kill him, then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go astray after him, whoring after Mo'lech from among the people.

2 Kings 23.10 (on King Josiah's reform):
And he defiled the Tophet, which is in the valley of Ben-hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter pass through the fire Mo'lech.

Jeremiah 32.35:
And they built the high places of the Ba‘al, which are in the valley of Ben-hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire Mo'lech; which I did not command them, nor did it come into my mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
Moloch has also been referred to simply as a rebel angel.
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[b][color=0000FF]“THE LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD” [/color][/b]

Until Jesus came, man’s blood could never be used to “cover” sin, only the blood of a sinless substitute, a sinless animal. At the temple, the father of the household would bring his lamb to the altar, and lean on the head of the animal, symbolically becoming one with it and transferring all of his sin and that of his family into the animal. He would then slit it’s throat. The Priest would then apply the blood of the sinless sacrifice to the altar, and the animal would be sacrificed on the altar.

So, there we have it. God requires the BLOOD SACRIFICE of a SINLESS SUBSTITUTE. Since man is not sinless, AND HIS BLOOD IS POLLUTED WITH SIN, the BLOOD of a SINLESS ANIMAL is required as a SUBSTITUTE to COVER the sin of believers, until the Messiah came.

This Messiah, Christ Jesus (God in Human Form) came to take away the SIN OF THE WORLD, and eliminate the sin problem once and for all, BY SHEDDING HIS OWN, SINLESS BLOOD AND BY SACRIFICING HIMSELF.

God bless,

Stever 8-)

PS- [b][color=0000FF]I understand that there are those that will say this is too long and wordy, just give us the "Readers Digest version". That is an impossible thing to do. The reason the Church today has no understanding about the blood is that the newer versions have already provided the "Readers Digest version" by watering down the essential doctrine (Bible Teaching) of the intent and purpose of the Blood of Christ.[/color][/b]

Songs like this are no longer being sung in our Churches, or found acceptable in most Seminaries & Bible Colleges

Would you be free from the burden of sin?
There's power in the blood, power in the blood;
Would you over evil a victory win?
There's wonderful power in the blood.

There is power, power, wonder working power
In the blood of the Lamb;
There is power, power, wonder working power
In the precious blood of the Lamb.

Would you be free from your passion and pride?
There's power in the blood, power in the blood;
Come for a cleansing to Calvary's tide;
There's wonderful power in the blood.

There is power, power, wonder working power
In the blood of the Lamb;
There is power, power, wonder working power
In the precious blood of the Lamb.

Would you be whiter, much whiter than snow?
There's power in the blood, power in the blood;
Sin stains are lost in its life giving flow.
There's wonderful power in the blood.

There is power, power, wonder working power
In the blood of the Lamb;
There is power, power, wonder working power
In the precious blood of the Lamb.

Would you do service for Jesus your King?
There's power in the blood, power in the blood;
Would you live daily His praises to sing?
There's wonderful power in the blood.

There is power, power, wonder working power
In the blood of the Lamb;
There is power, power, wonder working power
In the precious blood of the Lamb.

philologos wrote:
Quote:

Today, when we pray, we have the authority to SUPERNATURALLY APPLY the Sinless, Perfect blood of our Savior Jesus Christ to any situation by the POWER OF PRAYER.

Please give me chapter and verse for this extraordinary claim. It makes no sense and has no Biblical basis. What does 'any situation' mean. Can I 'apply it' to my sick dog, to my annoying boss?

The blood that coursed through the veins of our Lord Jesus was human blood. He was of the seed of David. Unless you are suggesting that his body came from the forebears but that his blood was an entirely separate material which arrived without coming through David or Mary?

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Mike H wrote:

You quoted this in your reply and suggested that some might find your reply too long. My comment is not that it is too long but that it is irrelevant to the questions posed above. Where is your scriptural evidence for "Today, when we pray, we have the authority to SUPERNATURALLY APPLY the Sinless, Perfect blood of our Savior Jesus Christ to any situation by the POWER OF PRAYER."?

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Stever's respons to Mike H:

My post was in response to that of Philologos, found at the top of this post.

Yes, I did post parts of this previously. The reason I posted it again is because of Philologos request. Philologos has the habit of popping in and out of various posts. Since he never read my previous post that answered his question, I posted it again, along with other things that teach that Christ's blood was not like your blood or my blood.

Christ never, not even once, coveted anything from anyone by thought or deed. Christ never, not even once looked at a woman in lust. Christ never broke the law in any way, ever--FROM THE CRADLE TO THE GRAVE, HE WAS WITHOUT SIN!

Christ was tested, just as we are tested daily, and never failed God's requirement once.

He surely is different than me. I would hope that you can see the difference between His walk on this earth and your own. I surely see the difference from mine. Eventhough Christ lives in my heart, I still struggle with the sin problem. The reason? Because of the sin nature that I inherited from Adam. We have all inherited this sin nature, however Christ is and WAS SINLESS.

God bless,

Stever :-D

philologos wrote:
[You are right in thinking that I often don't read the great rheams of stuff you cut and paste from other sources, but quite wrong in thinking I didn't read this post. I read it, and continue to read them... all the time thinking that somewhere you may actually answer the request for chapter and verse for your extraordinary statements about 'pleading the blood'.

Philologos continues:

If your view is right and Christ did not come of DAVID'S BLOODLINE we are lost. We have no kinsman-redeemer. With all the best will possible Christ would have been disqualified from being our kinsman-redeemer or our high priest. We have no sacrifice and no high priest. Your error is not a minor one.

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[b]Stever's response to Philologos:

This was part of my first (1ST) post on this subject- THE BLOOD OF CHRIST:[/b]

[u][b][size=small]JESUS DID COME FROM DAVID'S BLOOD LINE![/size][/b][/u]

[b][color=0000FF]Mary was a direct descendant of King David which gave Jesus the right to ascend the Jewish throne, both through Mary and through adoption by his foster father, Joseph. Mary's genealogy is supplied in Luke 3:23-38.

Dr. Henry Morris explains the genealogy in Luke:

"Joseph was clearly the son of Jacob (Matthew 1:16, so this verse [Luke 3:23 - says 'son of Heli'] should be understood to mean 'son-in-law of Heli.' thus, the genealogy of Christ in Luke is actually the genealogy of Mary, while Matthew gives that of Joseph. Actually, the word 'son' is not in the original, so it would be legitimate to supply either 'son' or 'son-in-law' in this context. Since Matthew and Luke clearly record much common material, it is certain that neither one could unknowingly incorporate such a flagrant apparent mistake as the wrong genealogy in his record. As it is, however, the two genealogies show that both parents were descendants of David--Joseph through Solomon (Matthew 1:7-15), thus inheriting the legal right to the throne of David, and Mary through Nathan (Luke 3:23-31), her line thus carrying the seed of David, since SOLOMON'S LINE HAD BEEN REFUSED THE THRONE BECAUSE OF JECHONIAH'S SIN" [Dr. Henry M. Morris, The Defender's Study Bible, note for Luke 3:23 (Iowa Falls, Iowa: World Publishing, Inc., 1995).]

Thus we see that Jesus was clearly legally related to both parents (to Mary, by being born from her, and to Joseph by legal adoption)!
For thousands of years, every human child has been born with an inherited sin nature and sinful flesh (Romans 3:23 & 8:3). This is a result of our sinful first parent, Adam and to whom we are all genetically related. Each generation (without exception) has sinned (Rom. 3:23) and passed on its sinful nature and the curse of death, to each succeeding generation (the biblical doctrine of imputation of sin - Romans 5:12-19). There is only one exception in history to this. Although Jesus grew in the womb of Mary, in the same manner as any baby, he was different from all other babies. The reason? His blood was inherited from the Holy Spirit, and his flesh was inherited from Mary. The blood of Adam did not flow in His veins, as it flows in mine and yours.[/color][/b]

[b]God bless,

Stever[/b]

This post is addressed to Philologos & MikeH:

Before we get into more and more scientific dissertations about how blood is formed, explain to US scientifically how a VIRGIN CAN CONCEIVE. How does the fetus develop? Where does the blood of the fetus come from, if there is no physical man to help create it?

It is very clear from Scripture that God made the original Adam from the dust of the ground, and created him. God supplied his flesh and bones and blood and eyes, his internal organs, etc. GOD MADE MAN WITHOUT THE HELP OF WOMAN.

Genesis 1:1
1.\tIn the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 1:26-27
26. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

[b][size=small]God created the first Adam. God supplied the blood flowing in Adams veins.God created the blood flowing in Adams veins OUT OF NOTHING.[/size][/b]

God foretold by prophecy the birth of the second Adam. Instead of being the seed of a man, the second Adam would be the seed of the woman. An impossibility in the mind of carnal man:

Genesis 3: 14-15. And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15.\tAnd I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and HER SEED; it (CHRIST, THE MESSIAH, THE LAST ADAM) shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

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As Christian Believers we are called to believe God. As a Christian believer, I know that He (GOD)CAN DO ANYTHING. We know that the blood of Adam is tainted with sin- the Bible tells us so. We know that the blood of a sinless substitute was required to cover the sin of believers before the Messiah came. This sinless substitute was never to be a man, the Bible prohibits this practice. The sinless substitute had to be a sinless animal, and the blood of this animal was placed on the altar, sprinkled on the Israelites, and sprinkled on the mercy seat.

We know that Jesus Christ was sinless from the womb to the tomb. Not once did He ever have a sinful throught or perform a sinful ACT--NOT ONCE, EVER. Jesus Christ was sinless, and that is why His sinless blood would be shed to TAKE AWAY the sin of the world (not to just cover our sin, as the blood of a sinless animal did previously).

The understanding of this has nothing to do with science, and everything to do with BELIEVING GOD.

If it took science for Believers to understand the Bible (the Old and the New Testament), then all those in the past (of long, long ago) would be in more darkness and confusion than modern day believers. The Reason? Science has supposedly progressed over this period of time, not regressed.

No matter how clever a person is, he can NEVER discover the living God by worldly (scientific) wisdom. The Bible tells us that “the world, through it’s wisdom did not come to know God” (1 Cor 1:21). If God could be discovered through human cleverness, He would be too small to be God. Not only that, but if human cleverness were necessary to discover God, then those people who may not be quite so clever would be disadvantaged in their quest for Him. Quite the opposite is the case. Spiritual wisdom is available to everybody! To the child, as well as the university professor. Spiritual wisdom is not acquired by the academic process. It is available for all people who trust in and believe in God. All we have to do is to ask God:

James 1:5-8 “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

This kind of wisdom is not worldly wisdom, but Heavenly. It is the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age (i.e. rulers which operate by this worlds system) has understood…not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God , that we might know all things freely given to us by God (1 Cor 2:8, 12).

The Bible is not merely a religious thesis, it is primarily the record of how God has revealed Himself to man. And only God can give us the Spiritual wisdom that we need to understand who He is and what He wants us to do in our lives.

How has modern day science, starting in the late 1800’s and down to the present helped Christian believers understand the things of the Spirit? Modern day science has tried everything in it’s power to eliminate the following from the very first verse in the Bible:
“In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth” (Gen 1:1). This statement declares that GOD is, and that He is the creator of the universe.

In 1960 (my Senior year in High School) Scientists estimated the earth to be between 4 to 4.5 BILLION years old. Over the next 20 or so years the number was increased to 20 BILLION years. However, now with the development of radiometric dating and the application of that technique on the meteorite "Allende", it is thought that the world is up to 4.6 billion years old.”However, this is still not conclusive.”

If we go backwards in time, when the Worlds greatest scientists were Christians, we find the following: “Christians Scientists in Isaac Newton's day, including Sir Isaac Newton himself, believed that the universe was a few thousand years old — created in six days in nearly its present condition. Cosmic history and human history seemed one and the same. Some clerics, and even Newton himself, made calculations based on their study of Bible passages, and announced an age of about 6000 years (they disagreed on the exact number). Other cultural and philosophical traditions thought the universe was much older, perhaps eternal. But most Europeans believed the universe was created recently.”

It has been necessary for scientists of today, who do not believe God, need to create more time, in order for “evolution” to replace God’s account of events. This shift in godless science has affected the Christian body.

God bless,

Stever :-D

I am not sure what you are saying.

When Adam sinned did his blood change?

How about Eve, did her blood change when she sinned?

The fact that Christ life was sinless made His sacrifice perfect. I do not see that his blood was sinless.

freecd wrote:
I am not sure what you are saying.

When Adam sinned did his blood change?

How about Eve, did her blood change when she sinned?

The fact that Christ life was sinless made His sacrifice perfect. I do not see that his blood was sinless.

Stever responds TO Freecd:

It is time for a teaching about original sin and it’s effects on the entire human race. All of humanity is either “in Adam” or “in Christ”

Bible teaching about the effects of Adams sin on the entire human race:

We are either all “in Adam” or “in Christ”

21. For since by man (Adam) came death, by man (Christ) came also the resurrection of the dead.
22. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. [1 Cor 15:21-22]

1 Timothy 2:
13. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Since Adam was the head of the human family, what happened to him affected the whole human family, and it affected you and me. God did not create millions of people to populate the earth. He created only one man -Adam. From this one man came all human life. Thus God sees the whole human race as being IN ADAM.
How did we get into Adam? By birth! All who are born into the human family are IN ADAM.
What does It mean To be in Adam ?
To be in Adam means to share in all that Adam was and all that he did. Certain things are true of every person in Adam. Here are five of them:
1. He is separated from the life of God.
2. He is in the kingdom of darkness.
3. He is a sinner.
4. He is under the power of sin
5. He is condemned to death.

Now we are going to consider each of these five things and see how they came about.

I. Adam's Sin Separated Men from the Life of God.

Sin separates from God. When Adam sinned, he was cut off from the life of God. To be separated from the life of God is to be spiritually dead in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” Genesis 2:17
Adam’s sin resulted in spiritual death, not only for himself, but also for the entire human race. All men became separated from the life of God. Why? Because all men are IN ADAM.

2. Adam’s Sin Brought the Human Race into the Kingdom of Darkness.
When Adam rebelled against God, he took sides with Satan, the first rebel..
He came into the kingdom of darkness, of which Satan is ruler. Thus Adam came under the power of Satan.

Since Adam was the head of the human race, he took the whole human race into the kingdom of darkness.

3. Adam’s Sin Resulted in a Race of Sinners.
As created by God, Adam was a God-centered man. He loved God and wanted to do God’s will. God was king upon the throne of his heart.

After Adam sinned, a change took place in his heart. Instead of loving God and wanting to do His will, Adam now loved himself and wanted to do his own will. God no longer reigned as king in his heart. Instead, Self was upon the throne of his heart. Adam now had a sinful nature.
Adam passed his sinful, self-centered nature on to his children. The Bible says that Adam had a son ‘‘ in his own likeness, after his image.” Adam himself had been created in the image of God, but he produced a son in his own sinful image.

In Lesson 4, we saw Cain’s rebellion against God when he refused to worship God in the way which God had appointed. He wanted to worship God in his own way. Later on Cain manifested his sinful nature in murdering his own brother. But the effects of Adam’s sin did not stop with his own children. Adam was the head of the entire human family, and he passed his sinful nature on to the whole human race. Adam’s disobedience resulted in a race of sinners. The Bible says,

..... by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners....

4. Adam's Sin Brought All Men under the power of Sin.

Because men are sinners, they are under the power of sin. The Bible teaches:
"Whosoever cornmitteth sin is the servant (slave) of sin." John 8:34

In the kingdom of darkness, sin reigns as a king and all men who are in this kingdom are under the power of sin.

5. Adam's Sin brought Death and Condemnation into the Human Race.

Sin entered the world through one man Adam, and death came as a result of sin. The Bible says,
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." [Romans 5:12]
After Death — JUDGMENT
After death comes judgment. Every unsaved person will be judged for his sins. The Bible says, "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment," Hebrews 9:27
Every person IN ADAM is guilty before God. Some people may think that they are acceptable to God as they are, but God says otherwise. He knows the hearts of men, and, concerning
Adam's race, God says in His Word:

"There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, There is none that seeketh after God.
There is none that doeth good, No not one...
For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
Romans 3:10-12, 23
Now we can understand why the Bible says,

"Ye must be born again...."

Why does every person need to be born again? Because every person has been born into a sinful race which is under the condemnation of God.

CONDEMNED
Now we can understand why the Bible says, "Ye must be born again...."

Why does every person need to be born again? Because every person has been born into a sinful race which is under the condemnation of God.
Let us look: again at the picture of every person in Adam:

1. He is separated from the life of God.
2.He is in the kingdom of darkness.
3..He is a sinner.
4.He is under the power of sin.
5.He is condemned to death.

Thus we see MAN'S COMPLETE RUIN IN SIN. We must see that every person in Adam's race is condemned. And we cannot take ourselves out of Adam's race. Doing good, being religious, joining the church none of these things will take us out of Adam's race.

To save Adam's ruined race; God had to do something. We could not do anything to save ourselves. But God loved us and He did something wonderful. He sent His Son into the world to be our Saviour. The Bible says,

..... the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world."

I John 4:14

The Lord Jesus was crucified for our sins. He bore the sins of all men.
"...the LORD hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all." Isaiah 53:6

God does not overlook our sins, but He forgives them because He sees the blood of His Son which was shed for them.

By His death and resurrection the Lord Jesus made it possible for men to come out of Adam's sinful race and INTO CHRIST’S.

God bless,

Stever :-D

Stever responds to Philologos:

My Bible teaches me that God created everything out of nothing. God spoke everything into existence!

This is the response from a CONSERVATIVE Christian to another Christian (Philologos):

Ex nihilo is a Latin term meaning "out of nothing". It is often used in conjunction with the term creation, as in creatio ex nihilo, meaning "creation out of nothing". Due to the nature this term, it is often used in philosophical or creationistic arguments, [b][size=small]as conservative Christians, Muslims and Jews believe that God created the universe from nothing.[/size][/b]

Some verses from the Judeo-Christian Bible that are offered in support of Ex nihilo creation by God are the following:

Genesis 1:1-2 - 1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[b][size=small]as conservative Christians, Muslims and Jews believe that God created the universe from nothing.[/size][/b]
Proverbs 8:22-24 - 22. The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

Psalm 33:6 - 6. [b][size=small]By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.[/size][/b]

John 1:3 - 3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Romans 4:17 - [b][size=small]even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.[/size][/b]

1 Corinthians 1:28 - 28.[b][size=small] And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:[/size][/b]

Hebrews 11:3 - 3. [b][size=small]Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the WORD of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.[/size][/b]

{ 2 Maccabees 7:27-29 Jerusalem Bible} - My son, have pity on me; I carried you nine months in the womb and suckled you three years.... I implore you, my child, observe heaven and earth, consider all that is in them, and acknowledge that God made them out of what did not exist, and that mankind comes into being in the same way. Do not fear this executioner, but prove yourself worthy of your brothers, and make death welcome, so that in the day of mercy I may receive you back in your brothers' company.

Another major argument for creatio ex nihilo is the "first cause" argument, which may be summarized as:
1.\tEverything that begins to exist has a cause.
2.\tThe universe began to exist.
3.\tTherefore, the universe must have a cause.

An opinion held by some Orthodox Jewish scholars is that the Book of Genesis contains a mystical interaction between God and all of creation. A familiar name of God for Christians, "alpha and omega", comes from the idea of God being the cause of all creation. The Hebrew equivalent of the letter "alpha" is "aleph", both letters being the equivalent to the letter 'A'. Therefore, since God alone represents the letter 'A', the next letter in the alphabet, 'B', or "bet" obviously is situated after the letter 'A'. Because then, the Torah begins with the letter 'B', in the word "bereshit" - or, in the beginning - some have posited the idea that we can conclude that God existed before the Torah, but that the Torah was the next thing to exist in the universe, and that this relationship between God and the Torah supports the theory of ex nihilo, due to the fact that the letter 'A' is situated before the letter 'B' in the alphabet.

Additional support for Ex nihilo creation comes from the Summum philosophy that states before there was anything, there was nothing, and if there was nothing, then it must have been possible for nothing to be. If it is possible for nothing to be, then it must be possible for everything to be. This condition results in SUMMUM, i.e. the totality of creation.[1]

There we have it, the difference between us. I believe that God created everything out of nothing. I believe that God spoke it into existence. God exists outside of time and space, and the laws that he created for this earth to sustain do not apply to Him. He is God, He is all in all, and He can do anything without the help of "science" or matter.

God bless,

Stever :-D

philologos wrote:

explain to US scientifically how a VIRGIN CAN CONCEIVE.

We are not talking about a virgin conceiving. That was a miracle and a predicted one. You are creating a second by second miracle in which a human being with alien blood existed. This would not have needed a single miracle but a whole lifetime of suspension of normal bodily function and a second by second miracle in which God first created then constantly replenished and renewed the whole circulation system of a human being for over 30 years. This is sheer nonsense at every level. Scientifically it is nonsense, theologically and biblically it is nonsense.

God created the first Adam. God supplied the blood flowing in Adams veins.God created the blood flowing in Adams veins OUT OF NOTHING.

On the contrary, Adam was created from dust. If you are suggesting that Christ was formed from nothing you are repeating your folly in divorcing him from the race he came to save. If Christ was a brand-new creation ex-nihilo he has no connection to us and cannot be our kinsman-redeemer nor our high priest.

God foretold by prophecy the birth of the second Adam. Instead of being the seed of a man, the second Adam would be the seed of the woman. An impossibility in the mind of carnal man:

We have been over this. Do you not understand that 'seed' does not mean semen? It simply means a descendent and as such is as applicable, biblically, to a man as to a woman. As in [color=0000ff]Gen. 4:25 (KJVS) And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another [b]seed[/b] instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. [/color] I would ask you what you think the Serpent's 'seed' is in this context but I won't it would only bring forth even more wild imaginings.

We know that the blood of Adam is tainted with sin- the Bible tells us so.

Where in your Bible does it 'tell us so'? I would like to see if I have it in my Bible. I think you know well enough that the Bible never 'tells us' that the blood of Adam was 'tainted with sin'. You are making it up, and you know it. There are serious repercussions for folk who add to scripture; be warned.

The Bible is not merely a religious thesis, it is primarily the record of how God has revealed Himself to man. And only God can give us the Spiritual wisdom that we need to understand who He is and what He wants us to do in our lives.

What is this supposed to imply? That Stever has had special revelations denied to the rest of the church?

You are using this forum to promote an invidious error which is defamatory to the unique glory of Jesus Christ and it is time you stopped. Your 'Christ' did not become flesh, he lurked in it as a continual alien. We all have opinions and you are welcome to yours but your contributions of this nature pollute this site. This is a far worse error than many that are occasionally raised here. This teaching is an affront to the person of the Son of God become flesh. There are few things that rattle my chain but one of them is blasphemy.

Quote:
Stever asks:
explain to US scientifically how a VIRGIN CAN CONCEIVE.

by philologos on 2007/1/30 7:08:50

We are not talking about a virgin conceiving. That was a miracle and a predicted one. You are creating a second by second miracle in which a human being with alien blood existed. This would not have needed a single miracle but a whole lifetime of suspension of normal bodily function and a second by second miracle in which God first created then constantly replenished and renewed the whole circulation system of a human being for over 30 years. This is sheer nonsense at every level. Scientifically it is nonsense, theologically and biblically it is nonsense.
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Stever's response to the above (Philologos):

God created the blood in Christ the same way He did with Adam. Adam's blood was supplied by God as sinless blood. Adam sinned, and his sin has befallen all of humanity.

Christ's blood is the same as that supplied to Adam by God, through the virgin birth. The only difference is that Christ, who was the fullness of the Godhead bodily, NEVER SINNED ONCE,EVER. He satisfied the LAW.

All of us today are either "in" Adam or "in" Christ. We are either "in" the First Adam, or "in" the last Adam, Jesus Christ. Both of them had the blood supplied to them by God. One became tainted for all of mankind, the other did not. One brought us bondage to sin, and one brings us a new life that empowers the believer to become more like Christ while he is alive on this earth and to do His work, and also provides him (the believer) with eternal life forever with Christ Jesus, God & the Holy Spirit in the New Heaven and the New Earth.

God bless,

Stever

philologos wrote:

by Stever on 2007/1/30 19:15:23
God created the blood in Christ the same way He did with Adam. Adam's blood was supplied by God as sinless blood. Adam sinned, and his sin has befallen all of humanity.

Adam did not receive a 'supply' of blood, it was part of being human. Christ did not receive a 'supply' of divine blood, he was human and he had human blood.

You have still not given me chapter and verse for saying that Adam's blood became a carrier of sin.

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Stever responds:

Where in Scripture are you quoting from when you say:

"Adam did not receive a 'supply' of blood, it was part of being human. "

God bless,

Stever

philologos wrote:
You have still not given me chapter and verse for saying that Adam's blood became a carrier of sin.

Stever responds:
The "teaching" is found throughout the entire Bible. God required a sinless BLOOD sacrifice to cover sin. Man's blood was prohibited from being used for this sacrifice because HE WAS A SINNER- it had to be the SINLESS blood of a substitute (an animal sacrifice of specific animals) to COVER SIN until the SINLESS blood of GOD (in the body provided by Mary) would be used to TAKE AWAY the sin of the World.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Stever continues:

Philologos, you have never answered my post, specifically:

Philologos posted previously:

Adam did not receive a 'supply' of blood, it was part of being human. Christ did not receive a 'supply' of divine blood, he was human and he had human blood.

You have still not given me chapter and verse for saying that Adam's blood became a carrier of sin.

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Stever responds:

Where in Scripture are you quoting from when you say:

"Adam did not receive a 'supply' of blood, it was part of being human. "

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Stever continues:

My question to you still stands- WHERE IN SCRIPTURE DO YOU FIND JUSTIFICATION FOR YOUR STATEMENTS ABOVE IN REGARDS TO THE CREATION AND THAT THE BLOOD “SUPPLY”, PROVIDED BY GOD, IS JUST PART OF BEING HUMAN?

God bless,

Stever

r

philologos wrote:

by Stever on 2007/1/30 19:15:23
God created the blood in Christ the same way He did with Adam. Adam's blood was supplied by God as sinless blood. Adam sinned, and his sin has befallen all of humanity.

Adam did not receive a 'supply' of blood, it was part of being human. Christ did not receive a 'supply' of divine blood, he was human and he had human blood.

You have still not given me chapter and verse for saying that Adam's blood became a carrier of sin.

For starters:

Exodus 20:5 (KJV)
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Exodus 34:7 (KJV)
Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

Numbers 14:18 (KJV)
The Lord is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

Deut. 5:9 (KJV)
Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

No mention of seed of mothers.

Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.

Why do suppose animal sacrifices were a necessary thing for justification yet didn't satisfy the whole sin issue? For that matter, because it wasn't mingled with faith, man's justisfication, fell short. [see Rom.3] The blood of animals, didn't profit him.

Ron,

If Mary contributed more than just being a host, Jesus would have been born in sin. We know that is [absolute] error, ergo, there must be something you are missing. From what I have read of you, it is this: The sin of the woman is not propagated, only the sin of the father. The scripture I cited, speaks of this. Interestingly, in Genesis 3.15, we have this exception concerning seed being propagated: Genesis 3:15 (KJV)
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

If God says woman has seed I am persuaded,it must be in the sense her lineage is to recognized and included, and what comes from her is credited to her lineage as well as that of the father. Hence we have both mentioned in Matthew and Luke. Intestingly, Joseph' only goes to back to Abraham while Mary's goes all the way back to Creation. There is real power in that if it can grasped.

Does this make sense?

philologos wrote:
by Ormly on 2007/2/1 2:20:48

If Mary contributed more than just being a host, Jesus would have been born in sin. We know that is [absolute] error, ergo, there must be something you are missing. From what I have read of you, it is this: The sin of the woman is not propagated, only the sin of the father. The scripture I cited, speaks of this.

You have certainly not heard me say anything like this.

If you are referring to my statement, you are correct, I haven't.

I do NOT believe that Sin is carried in the blood of the male. There is a classical orthodox answer to this dilemma in

I'm not interested in what orthodox says/states if orthodox isn't getting it correct in sorting out the "dilemma" except as it injures others by their "etched in stone" conclusions, Remember, that's one of the reasons we have the reformed; that's why the inquisitions. Both doctrines use shoehorns to make scripture fit their beliefs..

You submit this verse:

[color=0000ff]\t“For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother’s womb.” (Psa 139:13 NKJV)[/color] Many have regarded this as Messianic and speaking of God's protection against any such pollution.

Indeed, however, one's perspective needs to be more than one in order to get the whole picture of that verse which embraces more than just the messianic prophecy thinking. Consider: David IS ACTUALLY speaking of himself, a man after God's own heart, revealing to God, also to us, why He, God, chose him to be through whom messiah would come. The foreknowledge of God that David also sees, we can plainly see if we rightly divide the scriptures. If we don't, we open ourself up to be content with a deadend. I don't enjoy deadends.

As I do not think of Sin in terms of hereditary transmission it is not a problem for me.

You need to because thats how is was done. I believe you have admitted life [I think] to be in the blood. Why do suppose man could not offer his as a sacrifice and the blood of animals also could not satisfy the Holiness of God, even though it was innocent blood?

This is why I try to use the phrase 'congenital sin' rather than 'hereditary sin' (as the German has it, I think, Mike?) Heriditary sin gets us into the territory of 'transmission' which is another part of this discussion.

Congenital, as in it being "it can't be prevented", is the same for me as heritary. Either way we get it whether we ask for/like it or not.

My point is the female is the host even though she is born in sin. She does propagate her own but that of her husband. [review verses I cited]The fact Mary was born in sin is alone sufficient to link her to Adam, to humanity, thus giving her Son Jesus His link to it, but NOT the curse of/from it. The Father of Jesus, of necessity that Jesus' Blood be unstained by "heredity" or "congenital whatever", had to be sinless. Enter the Holy Spirit who overshadowed Mary. Enter "hypostasis".

If God says woman has seed I am persuaded,it must be in the sense her lineage is to recognized and included, and what comes from her is credited to her lineage as well as that of the father.

'credited to her lineage' will not do in respect to the Aaronic priesthood. A man had to be a blood descendent of Aaron not an adoptee.

Not so as you are lead to believe:

(for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him,

"The Lord has sworn
And WILL NOT CHANGE His mind,
'Thou art a priest FOREVER' ")Hebrews 7:21 (NASB)

What I just submitted to you should satisfy all your concerns, violating no scripture in the process.

MikeH wrote:
RobertW wrote

Why then after we receive the Holy Spirit are we not at that moment made immortal? Why is it necessary that we continue on feeling the effects of the fall of man (sickness, disease, etc.) that eventually lead to our physical death?

Because we are still part of this current physical creation. We will only get a new body, and we clearly will (1 Cor 15 etc), when the new heaven and new earth arrive. I hope, as well, that you will not physically die! I expect that you will one day 'fall asleep', but not physically die. The difference between physical death and 'falling asleep' are very hard to detect, in fact for the natural man they appear to all intents and purposes to be exactly the same. But they are very, very different!

Mike

I have my own ideas on this but would like very much to read yours; i,e., bottom line, are we immortal or not? regardless of our salvation.

MikeH wrote:
Ormly asked

I have my own ideas on this but would like very much to read yours; i,e., bottom line, are we immortal or not? regardless of our salvation.

We are mortal: [color=33CC00]1 Corinthians 15:53-54 ...this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality ...[/color]

Mike

I know that scripture but asked for your ideas about all this.... in context, of course.

MikeH wrote:

Ormly wrote:
I know that scripture but asked for your ideas about all this.... in context, of course.

Sorry, Ormly, I am being a bit slow. I can't really grasp the breadth of the question you want me to address. Perhaps you could present it in a different way. I am worried I could go off on a long discussion (I am, unfortunately, not known for my short pithy statements) which does not address your question properly.

Mike

Fair enough. Is man immortal or no? If he dies without the cross or with the cross will it have any bearing on his mortality?

philologos wrote:

by Ormly on 2007/2/1 14:03:16
I'm not interested in what orthodox says/states if orthodox isn't getting it correct in sorting out the "dilemma" except as it injures others by their "etched in stone" conclusions, Remember, that's one of the reasons we have the reformed; that's why the inquisitions. Both doctrines use shoehorns to make scripture fit their beliefs..

Nor me, in absolute terms, but if we think we are more intelligent or more spiritual than these men of God who served their generation we do not have a teachable spirit.

Oh?? Did insight stop with them?? Did revelational truth? Many of them had none.

Indeed, however, one's perspective needs to be more than one in order to get the whole picture of that verse which embraces more than just the messianic prophecy thinking. Consider: David IS ACTUALLY speaking of himself, a man after God's own heart, revealing to God, also to us, why He, God, chose him to be through whom messiah would come. The foreknowledge of God that David also sees, we can plainly see if we rightly divide the scriptures. If we don't, we open ourself up to be content with a deadend. I don't enjoy deadends.

Nor me, although it is the ‘tidying up’ of conclusions that leads to other kinds of dead ends. eg the doctrine of reprobation. We also need to understand that sometimes David’s words go beyond David’s personal experience eg Ps 22.

Indeed and my comments do not violate that nor cause the snare for anyone.

As I do not think of Sin in terms of hereditary transmission it is not a problem for me.

You need to because thats how is was done. I believe you have admitted life [I think] to be in the blood. Why do suppose man could not offer his as a sacrifice and the blood of animals also could not satisfy the Holiness of God, even though it was innocent blood?

I think you mean to say that such is your view of events. I have not ‘admitted’ life to be in the blood. The scripture plainly says so but then we have to understand what the scripture is teaching us in such cases. Here is a collection of verses which link ‘life’ to ‘blood’;

[color=0000ff]Gen. 9:4 (KJVS) But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
Lev. 17:11 (KJVS) For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Lev. 17:14 (KJVS) For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.
Deut. 12:23 (KJVS) Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.
John 6:53 (KJVS) Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John 6:54 (KJVS) Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

[/color] Do we really understand the New Testament verses to mean that Christ’s can only be received by drinking his blood? This is what Catholicism teaches, I know. The ‘life is in the blood’ is not a biological statement but a shadowing truth.

Your inferred canibalism here, is a strawman. For this discussion, not worthy of comment. Lets move on.

The blood is a symbol of life.

Your son is Doctor? I believe he would tell you otherwise. However, in this we are speaking of the Blood that is the only Blood acceptable for your's and my sin and sins, in fact it was shed for the sin of the whole world. It is type "P" for sure. "P" for pure-perfect, uncorrupted. That was not mere symbolism hanging the cross that day long ago. Having made that clear, we can see that same perfect cleansing Blood is imputed to us upon the new birth experience; indwelt in us to be recognized as a heart of flesh, replacing our old stony heart, incapable of union with the Father that He desires. In this we are a new creation. Again, no symbolism here. It is a restoration TO life; His Life more abundantly than the life we had with our stony heart.

Otherwise we move into the realm of the JWs and cannibals with their beliefs that life actually passes from one person to another ‘in the blood’.

In Christ this so and must be for the scriptures to be true. His Blood cleanses me from all my sin. By faith, I believe that and it is more than symbolism, as you are forced to believe it to be. You can't have it both ways.

It was because the life of Christ would be visibly poured out in blood that the Old Testament prohibitions to blood were instituted.

Again, no. You are building your foundation on a crooked footing.

A man does not become a pig by eating ‘black puddings’ (for overseas readers a North of England ‘delicacy’ made of pig’s blood, and a vital ingredient of a ‘full English breakfast’). The Bible nowhere, no far as I am aware, teaches that life can be transfered by means of blood.

I can expound on all of this but suffice to say the verses you cite prove you wrong. Perhaps a little Spiritual eye salve is in order?

Congenital, as in it being "it can't be prevented", is the same for me as heritary. Either way we get it whether we ask for/like it or not.

con-genital, as in a con-genital medical condition is one that a person is ‘born with’ which is exactly what ‘con’ ‘genital’ means in the original language. My dictionary defines ‘congenital’ as “dating from birth but not necessarily hereditary’. The reason I don’t use the term ‘hereditary sin’ is because that immediately declares that the ‘transmission’ of Adam’s sin is from parent to child. I do not believe the Bible expressly teaches this. The classic passage of Romans 5 uses a series of Aorist tenses which indicate single actions rather than process. This has been expressed in Youngs Literal Translation as

[color=0000ff]“because of this, even as through one man the sin [b]did[/b] enter into the world, and through the sin the death; and thus to all men the death [b]did[/b] pass through, for that all [b]did[/b] sin;” (Rom 5:12 YNG)[/color]

This verse does not demand ‘hereditary transmission’. My understanding is that The Sin to which Adam’s transgression gave admission passed through immediately to the whole race. It is pointless to try to explain it in terms of genes and hereditary; we have not been given enough information.

If you believe what you just stated, how else could it have happen except through the genes? How else can you conclude otherwise?

Unless we want to go with the idea of the actual physical body being ‘sinful’

Body? Not the body, but the blood {watch this now} which will surely die because of the blood becoming corrupted. Bad blood means death. Surely, you know that.

Enter the Holy Spirit who overshadowed Mary. Enter "hypostasis".

Indeed, that is so.

To suggest that God supplied his spiritual life in physical blood as does Stever is monstrous.

No it isn't, because that is what Jesus had to protect in Himself that Satan was after in Jesus' temptation. Had Jesus succumbed, as did Adam, you and I wouldn't be having this conversation. Get my drift?

This would teach that God created physical divine blood or physical divine seed to fertilize Mary’s womb.

He did, however it was not an act of creation; creation was finished on the sixth day. This act was of Himself, divine indeed. Jesus had sinless b
Blood of His Father. Will you deny that? If you can't then you must come to other conclusions than the ones you have established on the crooked footing.)).

This is going far beyond what has been revealed although many have ‘tidied up the revelation. by making this conclusion.

Revealed? by whom? to whom? All of that matters.

'credited to her lineage' will not do in respect to the Aaronic priesthood. A man had to be a blood descendent of Aaron not an adoptee.

(for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him, "The Lord has sworn And WILL NOT CHANGE His mind,'Thou art a priest FOREVER' ")Hebrews 7:21 (NASB

The Aaronic priest were required to have both lineage and consecration. Some like Jeremiah may never have received consecration and never became priests. You could be a descendent of Levi without being a priest, but you could not be a priest without being a descendent of Levi.

Believing this of Aaron is where you take you detour away from actuality to a deadend reality. Aaronic priesthood lineage and conscration, was through the tribe of Levi. Jesus came through the tribe of Juda. Juda also, was no priest.

philologos wrote:

Oh?? Did insight stop with them?? Did revelational truth? Many of them had none.

You'll have read them all of course?

I can expound on all of this but suffice to say the verses you cite prove you wrong. Perhaps a little Spiritual eye salve is in order?

If this is the level you want to work at, this is my last conversation with you on this forum.

Where is the offence? Spiritual eye salve? Ok, how about just eye salve because you aren't reading correctly. How else is it to be put because it is 101 material that unbridled human reasoning is distorting?

RobertW wrote:

I have my own ideas on this but would like very much to read yours; i,e., bottom line, are we immortal or not? regardless of our salvation.

I think of an old line 'Dying isn't much of a living'. Living in hell for eternity is certainly not much of a life. It's hard to get our head aound the idea of eternal death. But it is eternal conscious existence seperated from God.

All peoples will exist for eternity somewhere. Death means separation. So in that sense all people are immortal. But in terms of putting off this body, I was trying to understand why we need to put off this body at all once we are saved. I'm thinking in terms of physical death for the lost and falling asleep in Christ for the saved.

Why the process of death and resurrection for we that are saved? Why the need to be 'changed'? What is it that is corruptable and corruption that must needs put on uncorruptable and incorruption? Dead flies spoil the ointment, but what has corrupted our bodies? Certainly all will live for eternity (if by living we mean existing [i]consciously[/i]).

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Stever responds to RobertW:

Human beings, with our bodies of flesh and blood cannot inherit eternal life:

1 Cor 15:50 “ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”

When Christ resurrected from the dead, He resurrected in a new glorified resurrected body of flesh and bone, that will live for eternity. When He met His disciples in the upper room, He presented His new glorified body for inspection to them. The body looked like the old body, except now, in it’s glorified form, it consisted of FLESH AND BONE.It could also pass through walls at will.

Luke 24:36-39 “ And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 37. But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39.\tBehold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a SPIRT HATH NOT FLESH AND BONES, AS YE SEE ME HAVE.

Paul, in 1st Corinthians tells us more about our new bodies:

1 Cor 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There
is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
(Read the whole context)

There are several Greek words used for "Spirit" in the New Testment.

When Christ said in Luke 24:39 that "a "spirit" hath NOT flesh and bones, he was referring to the word "pneuma" which actually equates to soul, to God, to Christ's spirit, and the Holy Spirit

Strong's Number: 4151
Transliterated: pneuma
Phonetic: pnyoo'-mah

Text: from 4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit: --ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare 5590.

When Paul the Apostle was referring to the word "spiritual" in 1 Cor 15:44 he was using a different word- "pneumatikos" that means something entirely different that "pneuma". It means supernatural, regenerate, religious, spiritual (not the natural, earthly mud balls that we are now- but a supernatural, regenerate, religious and spiritual person).

Strong's Number: 4152
Transliterated: pneumatikos
Phonetic: pnyoo-mat-ik-os'

Text: from 4151; non-carnal, i.e. (humanly) ethereal (as opposed to gross), or (daemoniacally) a spirit (concretely), or (divinely) supernatural, regenerate, religious: --spiritual. Compare 5591.

Strong's Number: 5591
Transliterated: psuchikos
Phonetic: psoo-khee-kos'

Text: from 5590; sensitive, i.e. animate (in distinction on the one hand from 4152, which is the higher or renovated nature; and on the other from 5446, which is the lower or bestial nature): --natural, sensual..

The difference between the two words is tremendous. I often wonder about our new bodies of flesh and bone. The blood is of course missing. Do you think that our new life force could be the Holy Spirit flowing through the veins of each of us? A wonderful thought, but I have not been able to back it up by Scripture yet.

When will we get these new bodies? At the Rapture! The dead in Christ will receive their new resurrected bodies and rise first, while those of us still alive will receive our new Resurrected bodies, and forever we will be with the Lord. 1 Cor 15:51-58 tells us about this blessed event: “51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56. The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

However, the Bible is clear. All of those that die in Christ will be immediately in the presence of God, in Heaven, waiting for the rapture (“To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord” 2 Cor 5:8). The lost, on the other hand, go to a place called hell, waiting for the Great White Throne Judgment, at the end of time, and will be judged for their sin of unbelief, receive their new eternal bodies, and spend eternity in Hell, that was originally prepared for Satan and his fallen angels.

God bless,

Stever :-D

philologos wrote:

The difference between the two words is tremendous. I often wonder about our new bodies of flesh and bone. The blood is of course missing. Do you think that our new life force could be the Holy Spirit flowing through the veins of each of us? A wonderful thought, but I have not been able to back it up by Scripture yet.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. What kind of resurrection body would that be with 'spirit' flowing through our veins?!?

"Abundant LIFE"

Sorry, Mike. You gotta bring it down to earth. I can't follow all that.

FWIW, Angels don't procreate, all were create individually, ergo, no blood....unless you can find in scripture where that isn't the case?

Lev 17:11
All eating of blood is forbidden
11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Christinyou wrote:
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Rom 16:25 Now to Him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Mystery of the Blood? Mystery of Godliness?

What a glorious gift of God.

In Christ: Phillip

Indeed, it is. I truly hope you see all you speak of.

Peae Orm

Stever responds to MikeH:

1 John 1:8-9 tells us how to handle this (our “sin” problem- the sin nature that all of us have inherited from Adam. Eventhough we are saved, we still retain our sin nature):

8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

How does HE cleanse us? With His own blood.

Hebrews 9 tells us more of this cleansing blood:

2. [b][color=CC0000]Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14. How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? [/color][/b]15. And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18. Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20. Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22. [b][color=CC0000]AND ALMOST ALL THINGS ARE BY THE LAW PURGED WITH BLOOD; AND WITHOUT SHEDDING OF BLOOD IS NO REMISSION.

23. It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25. Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26. For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28. So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. [/color][/b]

God bless,

Stever :-D

MikeH wrote:

Stever wrote:
I surely see the difference from mine. Eventhough Christ lives in my heart, I still struggle with the sin problem.

[color=993300]Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and [b]washed us from our sins in his own blood.[/b][/color]

Isn't this where the blood is properly applied, in washing us clean?

That glorious hymn that you so graciously repeated earlier in this thread captures so powerfully the essence of what the blood is for:

[b]Would you be free from the burden of sin?[/b]
There's power in the blood, power in the blood;
[b]Would you over evil a victory win?[/b]
There's wonderful power in the blood.

[b]Would you be free from your passion and pride?[/b]
There's power in the blood, power in the blood;
[b]Come for a cleansing to Calvary's tide;[/b]
There's wonderful power in the blood.

[b]Would you be whiter, much whiter than snow?[/b]
There's power in the blood, power in the blood;
[b]Sin stains are lost in its life giving flow.[/b]
There's wonderful power in the blood.

[b]Would you do service for Jesus your King?[/b]
There's power in the blood, power in the blood;
[b]Would you live daily His praises to sing?[/b]
There's wonderful power in the blood.

[b]There is power, power, wonder working power
In the blood of the Lamb;
There is power, power, wonder working power
In the precious blood of the Lamb.[/b]

Mike

Stever's response to Christinyou:

Since being saved, have you ever looked upon a woman, who is not your wife, in lust. If so, you have committed adultery (see the Sermon on the Mount).

Since being saved, have you ever thought an evil thought? Have you ever coveted something of someone elses? If so, then you are guilty of sin, and breaking the law (again, see the Sermon on the mount).

The mere thought of committing a sin, without physically following through with the physical act----is still sin, and the penalty is death, and eternal separation from God.

As Christian believers, God sees us as Christ. Christ lives in us, and we are indwelt by the Holy Ghost. However, what goes on in our minds is not what went on in Christ's mind when He walked the earth. The Bible is clear that He was sinless, from cradle to grave. We still possess the same sin nature we inherited from Adam. As long as we continue to walk with Christ and have relationship with HIM, and repent of our sin whenever we commit sin, by thought or deed, and ask for forgiveness, THEN we continue to be in relationship with HIM and HE continues to see us as "positionally" sinless.

As long as we have these bodies of flesh and blood we will not be able to be in the presence of the Living God. Only at the rapture, when we have received our new, glorified bodies like Christ's resurrected body--bodies of flesh and bone, will we ever be free of the sin nature that we inherited from Adam. Until that time all believers, as long as they are alive and breathing, in their bodies of flesh and blood, are only seen By God "positionally" in Christ and "without" sin. At the rapture, in our new resurrected bodies, we will finally be able to see God face to face, and live with HIM forever. He will be our God, and we will be His people. We will finally BE sinless!

Also, if we die, and leave this body of flesh and blood, and we are believers, THEN we will immediately be in the presence of God, awaiting the time of the rapture. "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord".

[b][color=FF0000]As Christian believers, we should all be on our face in humbleness praying before the Lord. Have you noticed that most Christians today don't even get on their knees to pray? These are surely inflated times, to say the least.[/color][/b]

God bless,

Stever :-D

Christinyou wrote:
Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Sin Nature? Not anymore.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.

1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Are you born of God?

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

Are you His? Then we have and Advocate with the Father and if you do sin you can confess it and God is faithful and Just because of the Christ in you to forgive you and cleanse you from all unrighteousness.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Our Nature is on longer the sin nature, it is the Nature of God by the Christ in us.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Neither Law or sinners without the Law condemns us anymore.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

It says we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.

People are still being deceived into believing it is them that can do it.

In Christ: Phillip

To Christinyou:

You have admitted that you still sin, and that you have thoughts of sin. The wages of sin is DEATH.

God does not judge sin by degrees. In other words, the man who sins, by thought only is just as guilty as the man who carries the sinful thought to fruition, and completes the act. When Christ presented “The Sermon on the Mount” He dispelled once and for all the idea that I am better than another because I do not carry out the act, and commit the sin. By thinking about a sin I am guilty of committing the sin, even though I never carried it out. That is why we are no better than any of the sinners described in the Bible- “fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners.” These people commit the act of fornication and adultery, but we are just as guilty because of the thoughts we carry about fornication and/or adultery. None of these people, including you and me, shall inherit the kingdom of God in our human state, based upon our own works and our own thoughts. God judges us based upon His own standard-THE LAW, that can never be broken once to qualify. Only one person never sinned, and NEVER BROKE THE LAW ONCE, BY THOUGHT OR DEED- Jesus Christ, the God Man. It is upon him that we have access to heaven and eternal life.

You have admitted that you still sin, and that you have thoughts of sin. The answer for that is to be on your face before the Living God, asking for forgiveness each and every time your mind breaks the law- and each time you get mad at your brother, even if it is only in your mind and you never carried through with the action of showing your anger to him or her. Asking God for forgiveness, and repenting of your sin is the only way to have a personal relationship and walk with God. [b][color=993300]In this way, each day, and in every way, we are becoming more and more like HIM! However, we will never be truly like him until the RAPTURE! Now we see through the glass darkly, but then, AT THE RAPTURE, FACE TO FACE.[/color][/b]

Psalms 32 has further clarification about this:

1. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2. Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
3. When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long.
4. For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.
5. I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.
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We cannot compare ourselves to others. As humans, born of the seed of Adam, we still have our sin nature that compels us to break God’s law. The law was given to show us just how far we ALL are from the requirements that God has for His children. The only way for us, in our bodies of flesh and blood to please God is to believe on His Son, whom He has sent, to die on the cross and take the penalty for our sin. Only by doing that are we deemed righteous in God’s eyes.

The Christian body today is puffed up, inflated, and wants nothing to do with humbling themselves before the master, and admitting their sins, and asking for forgiveness, and then repenting from their sins.

The Christian body will never be sinless until the resurrection.

The Christian that you refer to is future. At the resurrection we will be sinless, just as Christ is and was sinless. In the meantime, because of our belief in Jesus Christ and the work that He did, Christ’s righteousness (not our own righteousness) is given to our account- is “imputed” to us. Our own righteousness is nothing more than “filthy rags”

God bless,

Stever :-D

P.S.- The time that you "think" you are in actually takes place at the end of time. Please read Revelation, Chapter 21 & 22. Then, we (Christian believers) will all have new, resurrected bodies like our Master, Jesus Christ and we will be like Him.[it also takes place at the 2nd coming, when the Saints come with Christ, as he steps upon the Mount of Olives. We will rule and reign with Him, in our new glorified bodies of flesh and bone, like Christ's, for 1,000 years.]

Christinyou wrote:
If I sin, it does not come from my nature. My nature is now the Christ that is in me. If I sin, it comes from the old nature I used to be.

In Christ: Phillip

Oops, sorry :-P. Wrong place.

Stever,

You have an amazing way of embellishing scripture. It's immensely authorative and convincing, but, often takes no account of other promises or facts.

[b]In this way, each day, and in every way, we are becoming more and more like HIM![/b]

Of course, anyone who sins is to repent, but, this is not exactly what Paul says is the way to become like Him.

Rom 8 (MKJV)
12 Therefore, brothers, we are not debtors to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.

13 For if you live according to the flesh, you shall die. But if [b]you[/b] [u]through the Spirit mortify the deeds[/u] of the body, [b]you shall live[/b].

In other words, the power to cease from sin is already available to us through the Spirit, but we have to use it. Simply [i]repenting[/i] all the time is a heart-breaking step [i]short[/i] of victory!

John also says
1:3:6
Everyone who abides in Him does not sin.

Everyone who sins has not seen Him nor known Him.

This word from John gives the clear announcement that it is more than possible to see Him, but also, to abide in Him, and to cease from sin [i]because[/i] we have seen Him, and abide in Him.

[b]However, we will never be truly like him until the RAPTURE![/b]

As I look to Him, I am being changed [i]all the time[/i], in ways that another man cannot see or judge, and it is sheer unbelief if I imagine that being in Christ is [u]not[/u] enough, to this end.

1 John 3:2
Beloved, [b]now we [u]are[/u] children of God[/b], and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be. But we know that when He shall be revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

[b]Now we see through the glass darkly, but then, AT THE RAPTURE, FACE TO FACE.[/b]