Christian Rock Music

Christian rock music...
Before I came to know the Lord, I was playing music in secular rock bands. Music has always been an important part of my life, and I believe that the ability to play music is a God-given talent.

As a new Christian, I was excited when I discovered that there were many "Christian Rock" bands out there playing some really good music. So I began finding other Christian musicians and playing this new type of rock music.

As I have grown over the years as a Christian, I find myself re-evaluating my stance concerning Christian Rock music.

I have always thought this type of music was a great way to reach the youth, but in some ways I am now wondering if this Christian Rock is a way of saying ... "You can have God, and the world too!"

At the same time, I do not feel that God is against variety. I see endless variety in all of His creation. Everything is unique in many different ways. Every human face is different, every leaf on every tree is different, every snowflake is different, ... and this could go on forever...

So, my questions are, how do we determine what "style" of music is the "only" style that is pleasing to God? And how do we go about determining that? When I see that God has put variety in His creation, why would it be wrong to have variety in the styles of music that we use to honor God?

After saying all of this, I do hear some Christian rock music that just seems to have an "evil" sound to it. Deep growling vocals, grinding guitars, and ear splitting noise! I am not questioning this type of Christian music. I do know where I stand concerning this style of music.

A lot of Christians believe that the "old hymns" are the ONLY songs that we should play or listen to. Yet, we must remember that at one time, even those songs were "new" and "different".

I am against all of this "entertainment" that is sweeping through church today. And I believe that we need to be very careful when it comes to the things we get involved with. In no way would I ever want to play music only to entertain, but if I can play music that will cause people to take a look at where they stand with God, I think it's what God would have me to do.

I am continually seeking the will of God for my life, and I am trying to stop, and take a look at where music is to fit in my life. If anyone has advice, and scripture to help me in this, please let me know.

God bless,
D.J.

well where do we draw the line, i must say I'm coming to the place where i wont listened to so much music except hymns and music like that, not that everything else is evil , but surly the Africans when they play their music isn't evil, and so on in south america.... they don't sound like "western" Christian music, the problem is i believe that when many people in todays "easy believes" churches preach their soft messages and don't say to people that they must leave everything to follow him, they preach "your OK" messages, and say stuff like "why should only the devil" have all the great music. so when you get saved you don't even have to change what kind of music you listen to,

for myself i remember i was saved and born again, the next day i was sitting at my computer and the holy spirit was convicting me about my music on m computer, so i just deleted over 2000 songs, i listened to "rap" and so on, Ive heard rap music whit gospel messages in them, i don't condemn them or say its evil, its just for my personal taste i don't like the beat and the sound of the world any longer, i was born again...i don't want to go back. as for Christian rock.... to me that sounds like Christian beer..... they don't just go together, when i close my eyes and i see the saint of all the ages in front of the throne... and they are about to sing a song to his glory, i really don't think its going to be a Christian rock song, but thats just me.... either way i think its great you're thinking about these things and searching, id say you pray about it, God will lead you through brother, but be prepared to follow Christ even if you have to forsake your music style,

and if you haven't already you can find a great selection of music here on SI... not rock but still very great music

Christian

Dear D.J.,

I listen to all styles of christian music including some rock. My rule of thumb is does it appeal to my flesh or my spirit. Does it cause me to enter into worshipping my God or does it just cause my feet to dance.

I am always looking for worship music that lifts my heart up to God. If the music lifts Jesus up and causes me to forget my surroundings and focus on HIM then it is good no matter the style. However some music works this way for me better than others, this may just be personal preference.

That is my heart on the issue. Glorify God in all you do and you will do it right. Don't just look for a good sound, but a heart attitude that doesn't exalt sound, but God. Does it cause you to enter in.
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Psa 66:1 [[To the chief Musician, A Song [or] Psalm.]] Make a joyful noise unto God, all ye lands:

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Psa 81:1 [[To the chief Musician upon Gittith, [A Psalm] of Asaph.]] Sing aloud unto God our strength: make a joyful noise unto the God of Jacob.

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Psa 95:1 O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.

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Psa 95:2 Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms.

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Psa 98:4 Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all the earth: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise.

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Psa 98:6 With trumpets and sound of cornet make a joyful noise before the LORD, the King.

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Psa 100:1 [[A Psalm of praise.]] Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all ye lands.

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[color=6633CC]Col 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; [/color]

D.J.,

I will share with you something I shared in a previous post. I think a lot of it comes down to the heart issue of the musician/s. I find it ironic that people say that rock music, rap, metal, and other forms are "the world's music," but in reality God created the talent of those who sing in each genre. It just depends on those individuals or bands what they do with it. Can Christian musicians screw it up sometimes, sure, after all, they are human; they are fallen. Again, it comes back to the heart.

This might seem like a silly example, but are we not supposed to worship God wih our life? So, it's not just in singing, correct? How come we Christians don't judge and debate over the "worldly" carpenter and the Christian carpenter? After all, the work of their hands should bring glory to God, right? It is a form of worship. Sure, music is a bit more enticing then furniture, homes, and houseware, but there are many of us who buy the carpenter's products according to how appealing their workmanship is to our eyes. I know this example might seem a little lame and a stretch, but do we not forget that God is the creator of music? Do we not forget that he created us with unique talents and tastes? Why must one judge over the heart condition of a Christian's music. If we really think about our judgement, then I suppose we shouldn't listen to any form of "godly" music, because after all, those writers were all sinners, just like the rest of us! I think it's crazy that we judge so harshly, and yet, it is God who should do the judging. Anyways... here is a previous post of mine:

It is interesting the continual topic we have had for decades on what is worship (musically speaking) to our Lord. We have camps that say only Psalms are the proper method of worship, camps that say hymns are the only method, camps that say lyrics without music are the only method, and so on. I don't know if I have a particular camp, personally. I'm still trying to figure that out, I guess. I love hymns, but I also love modern worship songs, as well. What I find interesting with all the disagreements among the camps as to who is right or wrong, and who is the "true worshipper," is that music has always been progressive, stylistically, lyrically, and instrumentally (In Scripture, not all instruments were created on the spot. It took time, and experimentation, failure and success. The Greeks had a style. Hebrews had a style. Jews had a style. The Egyptians had a style. Every culture was different in their on respect). I wonder if we realize that even the music and worship in Scripture was considered "contemporary" and "new?"

If God finds the work of our hands to be worship to Him, can He not find the words of our mouth to also be worship to Him? Does God intend that the only true worship that comes out of our mouth to be that of Psalms and hymns, or can He be blessed by any form of worship that we utter from our mouth, that brings, glory, honor, and praise to Him, where it is due?

I love this Psalm:

Quote:
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Psalm 149
1 Praise the LORD.
Sing to the LORD a new song,
his praise in the assembly of the saints.

2 Let Israel rejoice in their Maker;
let the people of Zion be glad in their King.

3 Let them praise his name with dancing
and make music to him with tambourine and harp.

4 For the LORD takes delight in his people;
he crowns the humble with salvation.

5 Let the saints rejoice in this honor
and sing for joy on their beds.

6 May the praise of God be in their mouths
and a double-edged sword in their hands,

7 to inflict vengeance on the nations
and punishment on the peoples,

8 to bind their kings with fetters,
their nobles with shackles of iron,

9 to carry out the sentence written against them.
This is the glory of all his saints.
Praise the LORD.
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I also love this Psalm:
Quote:
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Psalm 150
1 Praise the LORD.
Praise God in his sanctuary;
praise him in his mighty heavens.

2 Praise him for his acts of power;
praise him for his surpassing greatness.

3 Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,
praise him with the harp and lyre,

4 praise him with tambourine and dancing,
praise him with the strings and flute,

5 praise him with the clash of cymbals,
praise him with resounding cymbals.

6 Let everything that has breath praise the LORD.
Praise the LORD.

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Interesting isn't it? Back in the days of David, they were dancing, playing trumpets, clashing symbols, tambourines, and different stringed instruments. What's fascinating about this is that the "world" was playing these instruments and so were the followers of God. What's also fascinating, is that there were times of quiet, mellow music, but there were also times of "loud" music in worship to God, as well. Would you not consider the clashing of cymbols loud? Or even the trumpet, perhaps(especially considering that they weren't made like they are today)?

How about the singing on their bed? Wouldn't that be a little... "unorthodox?"

May we consider this, too?:

Psalm 148, says:

Quote:
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1 Praise the LORD. [a]
Praise the LORD from the heavens,
praise him in the heights above.

2 Praise him, all his angels,
praise him, all his heavenly hosts.

3 Praise him, sun and moon,
praise him, all you shining stars.

4 Praise him, you highest heavens
and you waters above the skies.

5 Let them praise the name of the LORD,
for he commanded and they were created.

6 He set them in place for ever and ever;
he gave a decree that will never pass away.

7 Praise the LORD from the earth,
you great sea creatures and all ocean depths,

8 lightning and hail, snow and clouds,
stormy winds that do his bidding,

9 you mountains and all hills,
fruit trees and all cedars,

10 wild animals and all cattle,
small creatures and flying birds,

11 kings of the earth and all nations,
you princes and all rulers on earth,

12 young men and maidens,
old men and children.

13 Let them praise the name of the LORD,
for his name alone is exalted;
his splendor is above the earth and the heavens.

14 He has raised up for his people a horn,
the praise of all his saints,
of Israel, the people close to his heart.
Praise the LORD.

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"Praise him, sun and moon, praise him, all you shining stars." My reflection of this Scripture would be that one of the reasons God created them was to shine, and do it brightly. So what are the sun, moon and stars going to do? They are going to shine their brightest.

"Praise the Lord...lightning and hail, snow and clouds, stormy winds that do his bidding,"

Lightning - bright, and fierce.
Hail - whether small or large, they fall hard
Stormy winds - loud, fierce, and very strong in nature.

Yet, God finds this all to be "Praiseworthy."

I find it interesting, the conflicts we all have if someone sings at the top of their lungs, bangs a drum with all their might, or worship and praise the Lord with what ever ability God created them to have.

I could only imagine if David were living today and him being bashed for his lyrical writing in today's culture. Do you know that he had to start from somewhere? David didn't just pick up a pen, or knife, or whatever he used to write with, and come up with the greatest song there ever was. He grew in his passion for lyrical writing. As he matured in his daily life and matured in his walk with the Lord, so did his writing, and his want to give God the glory the way he did. We are all very much the same. Sure, Jason Upton may not have the "greatest" of songs, but he is trying to ultimately get to a place of true worship.

We also have to remember that God created each of us uniquely. I wonder if there were reasons behind people creating new instruments throughout Scripture? Were they "bored" of the same old instrument?" Did they want to add more musically diverse flavor?" Did they not like the harp being played anymore, so they created the trumpet? They were given the unique gift and ability to create these fine instruments. Who gave them this talent? Was it not God? What did they do before instruments? Did they not just sing/say words? Were not some of God's people uniquely gifted to create poems, and songs in a unique fashion that others could not? Cannot an individual back then, or even now, worship God in a way that he knows how, and God be pleased by it? If David could play the harp, and God loved that, but I could not, does that make me a person who doesn't know how to truly worship?

Are we saying that true worship is only inspired by David, or any of the latter and current day hymn writers, or can God be worshipped, by His created, in the way that He created each and every one of them?

It's interesting that we say we should ONLY worship with the songs of "these certian individuals," without recognizing that they were individuals, all different and unique from one another. There was one commonality and that was that they loved the Lord. Could we not also, in our own individuality, worship the Lord with the gifts that He created us with, in a manner of worship that was pleasing to Him???

Again, Jason Upton is growing and maturing just like the rest of us. There will be individuals that aren't as far along in the Lord as Jason is that will be ministered to by Jason's maturing lyrics and find it to be a way of worshipping the Lord where they are at in their walk with Him.

After all, for those of us that are mature in our walks with Christ enough to understand where David was coming from as he battled on the physical fields of war and also the spiritual fields of war (when it came to the fighting of temptation, lust, and demonic activity), do we not find the Psalms to be a ministry to us in our times of distress, and triumph?

Are we saying that David is the ultimate "hero" of worship, or was he just like one of us - a sinner, and one who struggled with many of the same things we do? I wonder if David made mistakes as he wrote? Do you think he "erased" lines that he decided wouldn't fit, when he wrote things down? Do you think he maybe wrote a song when he was 10, but changed it around lyrically when he was maybe 15 and had matured in the Lord? Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but all I'm trying to say is that he was an individual like the rest of us, and worshipped the Lord in a way he knew how. David himself even said to sing to the Lord a new song. In our worship, if all we sing are hymns, or David's psalms, and that is it, are we singing to the Lord a new song?

Just some long drawn out thoughts.

D.J., praise God for your talents and abilities! I would encourage you to listen to the heartbeat of the Lord, and follow His direction.

Another thing I would like to add, is that it really depends on the heart of the listener as far as his purchase of this music. It's not ungodly to have some entertainment in our Christian lives. Should God be first and foremost? Most certianly. However, entertainment is not inherintly (sp?) evil. It comes back to the condition of the heart.

Scripture to reflect upon:

Ecclesiastes 9
A Common Destiny for All
[b]1 So I reflected on all this and concluded that the righteous and the wise and what they do are in God's hands, but no man knows whether love or hate awaits him. 2 All share a common destiny—the righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad, the clean and the unclean, those who offer sacrifices and those who do not.
As it is with the good man,
so with the sinner;
as it is with those who take oaths,
so with those who are afraid to take them.
3 This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: The same destiny overtakes all. The hearts of men, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live, and afterward they join the dead. 4 Anyone who is among the living has hope —even a live dog is better off than a dead lion! [/b]

5 For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun.

[b]7 Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for it is now that God favors what you do. 8 Always be clothed in white, and always anoint your head with oil. 9 Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun— all your meaningless days. For this is your lot in life and in your toilsome labor under the sun. 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom. [/b]

11 I have seen something else under the sun:
The race is not to the swift
or the battle to the strong,
nor does food come to the wise
or wealth to the brilliant
or favor to the learned;
but time and chance happen to them all.

12 Moreover, no man knows when his hour will come:
As fish are caught in a cruel net,
or birds are taken in a snare,
so men are trapped by evil times
that fall unexpectedly upon them.

Wisdom Better Than Folly
13 I also saw under the sun this example of wisdom that greatly impressed me: 14 There was once a small city with only a few people in it. And a powerful king came against it, surrounded it and built huge siegeworks against it. 15 Now there lived in that city a man poor but wise, and he saved the city by his wisdom. But nobody remembered that poor man. 16 So I said, "Wisdom is better than strength." But the poor man's wisdom is despised, and his words are no longer heeded.
17 The quiet words of the wise are more to be heeded than the shouts of a ruler of fools.

18 Wisdom is better than weapons of war,
but one sinner destroys much good.

BenBrockway wrote:
Another thing I would like to add, is that it really depends on the heart of the listener as far as his purchase of this music. It's not ungodly to have some entertainment in our Christian lives. Should God be first and foremost? Most certainly. However, entertainment is not inherintly (sp?) evil. It comes back to the condition of the heart.

well i say as Leonard Ravenhill, entertainment is the devils substitute for joy, the devil have filthy entertainment such as porn and other things, he also have entertainment that is "morally accepted" but still draws you away from Christ, they maybe look different come in different packages but does the same thing,
of course we should have fun and smile and be happy, but thats not your goal in life if you are a Christian, if you are a Christian the only reason you have for living is that God be glorified, anything else than that then you are not where God wants you to be,
i believe the devil don't have to trick you into some sexual immorality just to get you of road, if he can get you into collecting stamps instead of praying he has deceived you, its not so much how sinful and "wordily" the thing is, there have to be a clear line between those in the church and those outside, how we talk, how we spend our time, how we raise our children, how we spend our money, even the kind of music we listen to, and why we are listening to it as said above.

there is great "modern" worship music, and I'm not saying all is evil and wrong and bad, just we need to be careful and thoughtful of what we listens too, because there are much music, even "Christian music" that are in the flesh and "wordily", so we have to be watchful and not because i makes me feel good and therefore it is good, no thats dangerous.

i know Keith Daniel have some great teachings on this subject,

Thanks to all who have replied. Very Interesting points made. This does help me.

God bless,
D.J.

i recomend you watch this video prayerfully, i think i speak for many many multitudes of people that this sermon is life changing and i belive it helps in this area to better understand this issue.

Keith Daniel - Power of Prayer
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=4224&commentView=itemComments

hmmhmm wrote:

well i say as Leonard Ravenhill, entertainment is the devils substitute for joy, the devil have filthy entertainment such as porn and other things, he also have entertainment that is "moraly accepted" but still draws you away from christ, they maybe look different come in different packeges but does the same thing,
of course we should have fun and smile and be happy, but thats not your goal in life if you are a christian, if you are a christian the only reason you have for living is that God be glorified, anything else than that then you are not where God wants you to be,

I agree that a lot of entertainment is of satan (i.e. porn, clubs, ungodly music, etc., etc.), but not all entertainment is bad. After all, Christ himself enjoyed the festivals that the Jewish community partakes of.

Think about it another way: SEX. Sex, in the confines of marriage is an expression of love, it's bonding, but it is also fun. You can be entertained by sex in the confines of marriage. That isn't wrong. After all, God created it for those purposes.

I agree that it should never be our goal to "strive" for fun (as if it were the only reason to live), and let the fun be the end all and that's why I said that it matters the condition of the heart and placing God first and foremost.

:-D

I find it ironic that people say that rock music, rap, metal, and other forms are "the world's music," but in reality God created the talent of those who sing in each genre.

The question isn't who gave them the talent but what are they doing with it? The existence of talent has nothing to do with whether it glorifies Him or not.

This is a very tough issue, but here are some guidelines I think MUST be followed:

1. is it theologically sound?
2. is it about me and my feelings or about Him? Todd Friel likes to ask: "Could you sing it to your boyfriend/girlfriend?" If so, I'm guessing it's not much of a worship song :-)
3. is there a message clearly presented (both in substance AND style) that you can meditate on and actually truly worship Him?
4. does the style detract or distract from the words?
5. does the music draw you away from the wicked music you used to love or cause you to hang on a little bit longer?

I think the first two are pretty much set in stone for everybody. The latter three are very much personal conviction for each. Music is a very powerful thing, and I think we as followers of Christ need to seek the issue personally much more than we tend to do.

blessings

Here's an article titled, [url=http://www.av1611.org/othpubls/roots.html]The Satanic Roots Of Rock[/url].
Here's a quote Don Currin: "If we could come up with a rendition in the contemporary realm today of 'Amazing Grace' it would go like this, 'Amusing grace, How sensual the sound that entertained a seeker like me. I once was lost, but now I'm amused, was blind but now I'm deceived.'"
Growing up with one parent a Beatles fan and the other a Stones fan, my childhood and teenage years really evolved around music bigtime.
But the Lord has been very, very gracious. Throughout the years, I have been becoming dead to all worldly and secular-Christian music. I, as well, grew up playing musical instruments like piano, guitar and alto saxaphone. I was so into music. These days, Jesus is my music. Music used to have a sort of power over me, but Christ has set me free to serve Him in Spirit and in Truth. God draws us to Himself, and my music springs out of that.
Once in awhile, I might listen to a few Pillar songs, like once a month. But usually I turn it off have way through the first or second song. I think, "Why did I turn this on?"... becoming dead to the things of the flesh is all I can think of.
To each their own on the music stuff. I just know what God has done for me... Music was a hugh, hugh idol in my life even up to a few years ago. God is Jealous!!! Praise the Lord for His jealousy :-D
We are all at different levels... and I believe we should be growing more and more in grace... and this grace is Christ Jesus if we will abide in Him, He will abide in us.
Hope this helps a bit. The Father loves all His children soooooooooooo much!!! He cherishes the whole Body.
Let it be done according to your faith friend. He knows what He has gifted you for. I encourage you to spend much time in prayer every day.
May God bless you with Himself during the many weeks ahead,
richie

But I don't mind the Blind Boys Of Alabama come to think of it. Got a cd around here somewhere.
Wouldn't catch me with any Robert Johnson though... Hellhound was on his trail :-o
Let us not put the Lord to the test,
richie

Why in the world do we get so caught up on discussing this? One of George Barna's poles showed that the average Christian prays for 3 minutes everyday, and the average pastor prays for 7 minutes every day. Now if I'm a person who enjoys listening to some secular music every now and then, but my prayer life is on fire, do you think God is going to be angry with me because my feet begin tapping when I hear the Beatles? I'm a drummer, and I love playing worship music, but sometimes I get so wrapped up in the music that I forget what I'm singing. Do you think God gets angry when I do that? My brother, if you love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and strength and can pray as though God will actually answer you, if you can read his word as though it is really true then all of this really will not matter. You will be a radical lover of God, no make that a friend of God, no make that a son of God who happens to listen to entertainment now and then. I heard a quote recently that said something like "Jesus' first miracle was changing water into wine, and the evangelicals have been trying to change it back ever since." The point being Jesus did some things that we might not consider right for someone as holy as he was, but he was God. Do you really think Jesus would get caught up in all of this if he was here? God bless you all. Your brother in Christ, Jay

Hello...

I don't know if I can count all of the threads discussing the good, bad and ugly (and possible evil) about music -- whether christian, secular, instrumental or christian rock.

An important thing to interject:

Be open to seriously seeking God without bias or prejudice when contemplating this topic.

I know quite a few believers that would not be willing to consider changing -- either way -- even if the evidence pointed a certain direction. I feel that all believers should be willing to give up anything (including music) that they feel might possibly offend the Lord. At the same time, I feel that all believers should be willing to lay aside spiritual prejudices that might possibly be based upon the ideas of man instead of God.

Far too often, in my opinion, a spiritual search is conducted with pre-existing prejudices. When seeking an answer, we should not expect to find the Lord answer us, "MUSIC IS NEUTRAL" -or- "I DON'T LIKE SOME OF THIS." Rather, we should hope to hear the Lord lead us to an "axe that is laid to the root."

In my opinion, the problem with much of christian music is that it is not always meant to please the Lord. Instead, it is often an artist composing/writing a song meant to either please the [u]human[/u] listeners, or a song that pleases the artist himself/herself. I believe that skill is certainly required in spiritual songwriting, but it should take a backseat to passion, adoration and praise (and possibly, a message). There seems to be quite a few songs (from contemporary to worship) that are void of heartfelt emotion and have very little to really say.

There is also a grave danger, in my opinion, of young christians throughout America dreaming of local or national "stardom." How many churches today are filled with young people who idolize music over the Master? A church that I once attended stopped all of the programs for a month of prayer, fasting and consecration. Oddly enough, [u]many[/u] of the musicians (particularly amongst the young people) stopped attending during that time. Some actually left the church because they said that they didn't "feel appreciated for their music."

I am a musician. I play the guitar and the piano. I am far more concerned with whether or not the Lord is pleased with me (and my music) than whether or not people like it or appreciate it. I take far more pleasure finding a place where I can be alone (or simply in my prayer closet) and worship the Lord with a song.

:-)

hmmhmm wrote:
when i close my eyes and i see the saint of all the ages infront of the throne... and they are about to sing a song to his glory, i really dont think its going to be a christian rock song, but thats just me....

Here's an article titled, [url=http://www.av1611.org/crock/crockex1.html]Christian Rock Exposed[/url]

richie

Question: Is there anyone here who started listening to "Christian rock" after being saved who wasn't formerly "in to" the devil's/world's rock before being saved?

I'm just curious b/c I know I was a Metallica/Nirvana/ACDC/Ozzy Osbourne junky before getting saved, and only after several years of maturation in the Lord did I turn from rock altogether (although I still do listen to some of Third Day's [i]Offerings[/i] albums). Just wondering if anyone had the opposite experience.

denver

I like songs that deal with Jesus being the Rock. :-? Is that off topic?

:-P

Think about this.

What is important about worship music in a local church is being relevant. Relevant to God first, as well as the world around you. What does being relevant mean? Look at Jesus Christ for one. He left his glory and came to earth in an earthly flesh and lived an earthly life like us to instruct us on how we must live. HE was RELAVANT. He could've just stayed up in heaven and shouted down at us to repent, but instead he came down to instruct us Himself. That's one example of being relevant.

Another example of being relevant is the Bible translations. Look at all the Bible translations that we have today. Many people over the last 2000 years translated the written text of Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek into every language imaginable. Why? So that it would be relevant to us. Otherwise how would all be able to read the Word of God? These are a few examples.

Now come back to worship music. What does it mean to have relevant worship music?

Or I can ask, what does it mean to have relevant Evangelism? Relevant to the year 2007 in which we live in. Not 1927 when our great grandparents lived and worshiped with hymns. God never changes, BUT, the WAYS in which His ministry is conducted and expressed changes from time to time. For example, you cannot conduct evangelism like it was conducted 100 years ago. Because, 100 years ago, teenagers weren’t watching pornography, doing heroine, getting into car crashes, going to clubs, gambling in casinos, etc. The time in which we live in has changed. It is a polar opposite to that in which the elders of the church lived in. You cannot evangelize the world in the same way that you would 100 years ago and elders need to understand this and simply get over it. This is an example on evangelism.

Now back to worship music.
Think about this one.

I will come back in a few days to continue my statement.

I'm just curious b/c I know I was a Metallica/Nirvana/ACDC/Ozzy Osbourne junky before getting saved

This is a very good point you bring up, Denver. Normally, the most prominent vices a person indulged in prior to conversion are the ones that are held in check as long as possible. As long as a person can still cling and it not be counted [i]sin[/i] per say, our nature will still indulge. Obviously, massive issues like fornication and drugs are immediately dealt with by God when a person gets genuinely born again of the Spirit. But the seemingly lesser issues usually tag along until a greater level of maturity manifests in the Christian's walk.

For many people, ungodly music is usually the last to go. I feel the reason for this is the accomodating factor of worldly influences dressed in Christian garb. We see this the most in music. For some reason - and I'll probably [i]never[/i] understand why - we'll give up cussing, drinking, smoking, immorality, but taking away our worldly music styles? No, we'll make practical justifications (i.e. "My friend got saved at a Pillar concert!"), or we'll "Christianize" the music by introducing biblical vernacular to the lyrics. Perhaps it's because only music can evoke such powerful soulish impressions and give us a feeling of euphoria like no other medium on earth. So addictive, so indispensible to us is this soul-appeal, that we will merge Holy Scripture with the backdrop of a drumbeat style that had its genesis in the taverns of the devil's territory and somehow feel liberated and justified and [i]spiritual[/i] in our offering it up to God.

I really think we're trying to see how far we can go without crossing the line - a line which is distorted and pushed back as far as the lusts in our members seem to allow without it become full-blown sin to a seared conscience.

Brother Paul

Hi Krispy...

KrispyKrittr wrote:
You mean av1611.org? Yea... I dont like that website either, and I'm a KJV guy. There's a lot of spouting off about things that I really dont think they know what they're talking about. A lot of generalities and blanket judgments on issues and people.

As their web address indicates, the website is fiercely KJV-only. However, it makes familiar bold claims. For instance, they claim that it is "the biggest lie" that anyone believes that the some version of the Bible are easier to read than the KJV. Even as an educated person, I can personally testify with great honesty that I find some versions easier to read than the KJV. And it is either dishonesty or simple error to state that verses have been "removed" from the KJV while creating the NIV. The NIV, those that have studied the issue realize, was translated out of another set of sources (which the translators, right or wrong, considered superior).

This is how that particular website seems to operate. It seems like they see an animal with webbed feet, a bill, and feathers and call it a "duck" -- when in fact it is a "goose" or "swan." I truly feel that the Lord desires for us to move past rash surface judgments and go to the root of a matter through the wisdom imparted in I Thessalonians 5:21 ("prove everything").

For instance, the website includes links to a few articles concerning how "soy is making kids gay." Of course, the website is not necessarily endorsing the articles -- but it includes them as a matter of point. Even beneath the articles, there are several messages that chide christian rock music for immitating the world. A little lower, the website includes an article that mimics and paradies the 1897 article "[i]Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus[/i]" (entitled "[i]Yes Virginia There is a Hell[/i]").

This is flawed thinking that leads to flawed judgment. A couple hundred years ago, men believed that a full moon brought out the worse in human beings. Why? Because crime happened with greater frequency on nights of a full moon. So the "surface thinkers" decided that the full moon must have power to make some men mad. No one stopped to question whether or not the rise in crime on nights of a full moon was because many more people could venture outside during full moons. Instead, they relied on a flawed theory of "full moon madness."

I believe that God wants us to be above this sort of flawed thinking. The world paints believers as "ignorant and unlearned men." They treat believers as if they are gullible people that were not strong enough mentally to question the existence of God. Should we revel in such supposed ignorance? Or should we strive to have an answer to the questions asked by the world? Too often, it seems that believers venture to [u]speculate[/u] in areas of which they are unlearned or ignorant. Remember, [u]ignorance[/u] is a different matter than [u]intelligence[/u]. You can be completely ignorant of an issue, but still make an intelligent decision about the same issue. Yet some believers have no answers -- but "fake it" by making judgments on issues in which they are unfamiliar. It sometimes will add "fuel to the fire" of secular bigotry toward believers. We are not of this world. We should not pretend to be. We may be ignorant -- but we should still ask God for wisdom and discernment.

:-)

For many people, ungodly music is usually the last to go.

Brother Paul, I have noticed that also. It is very true. I have many times wondered why is so?

My flesh emotions are still growing up when I hear the music that I have once been into. And there is christian alternative, but my spirit is not comfortable listening it. My flesh still likes it, but it is not profitable to my spirit. Even though the lyrics are christian, it gives me thoughts from the past life, worldly life. Don't we said once good bye to the world? And I must admit that I didn't surrender the music at once, it was process of convicting.

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

I have recommended and I would continue to recommend these two godly sermons by Keith Daniel, I believe that after hearing them you will never be the same (of course if you listen with open heart), especially Finished with the world, be prepared to be shaken.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=1865]Finished with the world[/url]
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=4224]The Power of Prayer (video)[/url]

My flesh emotions are still growing up when I hear the music that I have once been into. And there is christian alternative, but my spirit is not comfortable listening it. My flesh still likes it, but it is not profitable to my spirit.

I'll tell you what, brother, I believe that as we progress in the school of God, and wisdom and knowledge increase, God also begins to hold us in more responsibility to the measure of increasing light. When I first came to the Lord, I still listened to rock and roll, but as I matured in obedience, things that once held no conviction over me suddenly began to. Things like secular music and televsion began to fall away. My style of dress began to change too; I even began combing my hair differently. After awhile, I was only listening to Christian music and watching really [i]clean[/i] stuff on TV.

Well, a few more years passed, and by the grace of God I was again allowed to progress a little more in school of God, and His increasing knowledge and integrity revealed that which was passing for the [i]Christian[/i] music I was accustomed to listening to was no longer suitable either. But God doesn't take an old thing away without providing the new, and He soon opened my spirit to the glorious hymns. And then I saw that nothing was really [i]clean[/i] on TV, that every program being aired was either gathering for Jesus or scattering. I saw that just about 98% of everything offered was used for scattering and the paltry 2% "Christian" was of the antinomian heresy. Since this type of conviction is from the Spirit and not the flesh, the flesh still yearns for amusement, but the spirit fights to resist it. This is how you can hear an old Beatles song on the radio and instantly delight in the flesh, yet at the same time have no peace in your spirit, because you know it is a wicked element and God hates it.

Well, for me, now, I feel this unpeace when I listen to contemporary Christian music, even most black gospel music and million dollar choirs. It hurts my ears, it twists my guts; it's like that feeling you get when you bite down on tin foil. Oh, I believe that much of what we think is super anointed is but super soulish and glossed over.

The thing is, we can't - and I certainly don't - expect everybody to see things on my level when it comes to music. I am, however, fully persuaded that when a believer progresses in the school of God, he/she will come to similar convictions. Men like Keith Daniel, Wilkerson, Ravenhill, Tozer, and other saints here on SI all can't be wrong when it comes to this music issue. We just have to be careful not to thrust our received light upon those whom God has not appointed the time for yet. This is like being a proud schoolyard bully. When people do this, what they are trying to share is invariably rejected, and rightly so. Only God can impose a conviction like this, but I think it is nonetheless good to speak about it and prepare the soil for impending progression.

Brother Paul

PreachParsly wrote:
I like songs that deal with Jesus being the Rock. :-? Is that off topic?

:-P

Amen brother, "O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation." Ps 95:1

"And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." 1Co 10:4

:-D

I have been a christian for 14 years and just within the past year has my love for secular music been challenged. After reading this thread, I feel like Im either a late bloomer in the Lord or a slow learner as I know I have never had this conviction in the past. GOD works on everyone in obviously very different ways. I thank this website and all the members for my continual growth in the Lord.
GOD Bless!
John

You cannot evangelize the world in the same way that you would 100 years ago and elders need to understand this and simply get over it.

Good point. It would be better if we evangelized the world in the same way they did 2000 years ago. ;-)

MC

D.J.

I understand your concern, but I believe with all my heart if a song, no matter the style, glorifies and praises God, or explores our relationship with Him, or discusses Christian Discipleship, it cannot be bad.

Each of us will like different musical styles. Hoever, if God is glorified, what can the music matter?

Does it replace a similar musical style with words that celebrate Christianity? I say then, thanks be to God for using all styles of music to His glory.

Oddly, after reviewing the matter, I have found that the songs that do well on Air1.Com (my only radio choice) tend not to be the type of music that celebrates bump and grind, or is dark in tone. Those songs that do well in celebrating Christ, even in a hard rock beat, are the songs that sell.

As to your stance on 'entertainment' in the church, with skits, and dancers, and anything else a church comes up with to keep people coming back, it reminds me nothing so much as idol worship as portrayed in the old Christian films. And I fear it may be. Discretion, as always, is the greater part of valor.

Please don't worry so about the music. God is in control of the music industry too, although He allows the Evil One a great deal of leeway.

I truly believe that those of us Christians who delight in worshiping the Lord will be able to choose wisely. When choosing for our young people, we can give them a style that they can enjoy, and delight in them as their voices soar to heaven.

Blessings,

Dear Ben,

I found it unusually touching that you mentioned 'singing on your beds'.

In the old days, with little light, and a desire for praise of God, the Jews and Israelites would sing together until one by one they dropped off to sleep.

Strangely, I do that as well, in the night hours when I cannot sleep, and am blessed to wake up with other songs from the Holy Spirit in my 'ears', ready for me to begin the day.

Thank you for mentioning this lovely, but ancient, practice.

Good point. It would be better if we evangelized the world in the same way they did 2000 years ago.

Awesome Point!!!

There truly is nothing new under the son.

Lord Bless,

Sean

It seems like we are hot and heavy on the music trail these days. I can’t read all the posts, but am a going to bring up a few thoughts that I haven’t seen (though may have missed).

Ron Bailey (Philologos) points out in one of his sermons that worship in the Bible was never associated with music. Worship, in its original meaning, has to do with lying flat on your face before God. Ron adds: “You can’t play a guitar while lying flat on your face, you can’t play a tambourine while flat on your face. So it’s not surprising that you don’t see worship and music happening synonymously. (worship is not the same as praise)” I add: You can’t even sing while flat on your face!

Attempting to establish criteria for acceptable music has been a challenge for centuries. And there has never been a solution. Maybe it’s better to realize that ANY music can hinder worship (that is, your total dedication to God). A good test to check if your music is overly important to you is to consider how zealously you are defending it. Can you let it all go? Would you feel just as close to the Lord without it? Can you praise God with music that is outside of your style? After all, if music is only meant to please the Lord, then it shouldn’t matter if it pleases you, right? And you would be just as blessed singing "Jesus loves me" with a child on a park bench.

Are you prepared to surrender your “Isaacs”, if God calls you to? After all, he is a jealous God who desires your total love, not shared with anything and anyone else.

Keep in mind that only in recent years has music become something that you don’t do yourself. You are minimally engaged in creating it, and heavily rely on something/someone else to do it for you. It is all pre-fabricated. You live it vicariously through technology. I wonder how much of our Christian faith is lived that way.

What would happen it the plug was to get pulled?

Diane

Good post Diane,

MC

Psalm 150:5

God can use guitars, drums and music of all styles...what he can't use is pride, rebellion, and the works of the flesh!
at this point I think the style of the music is almost irrelevent. I know people who sing Gospel music just like Garth Brooks because they loved country music then got saved. they can't seem to let that part of them go, maybe (or thats just who they are--they are being themselves and God can use someone who is real).
It's the condition of the heart that God uses. If it's bluegrass gospel and you are playing to appeal to the flesh, for the purpose of entertainment, it has no place in the body of christ....if it worships the flesh rather then God himself...
I took my 12 year old daughter to a "Dare 2 Share" convention last month. It was the first time we have heard of dare 2 share, and did not know what to expect. We were very dissapointed when they wrapped it all up with a concert by a group called "Super Chick" they were nothing more than a Rock band (looked and sounded, acted and lyrically...like an 80's rock band at that) my 12 year old daughter even said, "I don't get it dad, if you did -dare 2 share- and invited someone here to get saved they would not have heard anything from this band that would tell them what the Gospel is all about."
With all honesty, if you just woke up and found yourself in that concert there would be no way to tell that it was a christian event! the jumping off of speakers, smoke screens, and the lyrics all entertained the flesh but had nothing at all to do with God.
not because the style of the music though, but because of the lack of the message. they have forgotten thier purpose was the message of the Gospel and to worship!
If it's not spreading the Gospel message or offering Worship to God then it is nothing more than entertainment. If entertainment has a place it's not on the pulpit, in the church, disguised as christian ministry!
when sinners (who are lost) look for something they can believe in they are wanting a change, something different.....they need substance. not someone who acts just like them, listens to the same music, watches the same trash on tv, goes to the same places, talks the same, they need a change in thier lives and all they are looking for is someone who truly loves God and truly (and genuinly) cares about them!
Don't try to entertain them into the kingdom but Love them into the kingdom of God.

God Bless Roy

What would happen it the plug was to get pulled?

The same thing that would happen in any swinging nightclub - instant confusion, then irritation, and finally the dance hall would begin to empty out. The people who came to dance would have to find a nightclub with [i]power[/i], but all they would have to do is find another flashing, neon billboard.

But what would happen if an entire city grid went out? And then an entire [i]national[/i] blackout? Where would they dance?

This blackout is coming soon, and when God finally throws this Babylonian power switch down, hypocrisy and idolatry will glare like twin beacons. Only that which is holy and pure will endure.

Without holiness no man shall see the Lord.