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Dream of Apostasy - Prophetic Warning - Judgment is HERE!

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sermonindex

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ;
To the remnant of God in the United States;

It is with utmost brokenness and urgency that I write to you this day. I do not particularly desire to write such a thing, but I believe this truth needs to be known. To some of you this is nothing new, just a re-statement of what you already know. To others, this may be eye opening or revolutionary to your current beliefs and views. Still yet to others, this may be offensive. Please permit me to lay my case and consider what I’m saying with openness, discernment, prayer and sensitivity to what the Spirit is saying.

I recently had a dream. In this dream, I decided to go back and visit the church that I used to go to when I gave my life to the Lord. This is a Pentecostal church that believes in the gifts of the Spirit and has some fiery preaching, but it’s dead and apostate and totally neglects the essential doctrines of scriptural holiness, without which no one will see the Lord, and stewardship (not laying up treasures upon earth and bewaring of covetousness), among other things. The people are living in sin and compromise, and the pastors are too. It is by the mercy of God that He led me to the truth and led me out, and praise be to His name for it! But, sadly, as with almost every other church in this nation, there are many people still there who are “Hallelujah-ing” their way straight to Hell.

In this dream, I decided to go back to this church. I now had lots of ministry and preaching experience, and an anointing from the Holy Ghost, and for some reason, I thought they would welcome me back and be happy to see me and at least hear what I had to say. I had the notion that I was going to preach the service and that the pastor was having me as a guest speaker or visiting evangelist. So I went on Sunday morning, and soon discovered that there was no way now that he was going to let me preach. I was planning on preaching on holiness and he wasn’t having any part of it. So now I wasn’t preaching, but my heart was still burdened for all the people.

Seeing I had no further business in the sanctuary, and that the service had not yet started, I walked out of the sanctuary and into the fellowship hall where all the people were sitting before service. They were all sitting at big round tables and talking with one another when I walked in, laughing, talking, and “fellowshipping” with one another. I soon noticed that they had just finished partaking of communion and still had the remnants of bread and empty glasses of wine on their tables. Immediately, I felt compelled to at least try to reach them with the truth.

So in the middle of the fellowship hall, in the midst of probably about 100 or more people from my old church, with a few new faces, I started preaching in a very calm manner. I remember exactly what I preached on: holiness. I even remember the scriptures I preached on. I quoted and clearly expounded on Hebrews 10:26-27, Hebrews 12:14, 1 John 3:5-9, and some others in the most simple and straightforward manner, exhorting the people before me to examine themselves in light of the Word and see that they weren’t truly saved because they were living in sin and compromise. With utmost sincerity, and in a calm yet urgent tone of voice, I desperately pleaded with them to not be deceived. I told them they have believed a lie and were living in false assurance, quoting and expounding upon clear scripture to prove it and urging them to repent.

Soon, a heavy weight of conviction came down. Every face was affected, some had “conviction” written all over their faces so to speak, and others couldn’t bear to look at me and had their heads down in shame. I thought they were going to start screaming in agony of soul, or falling out of their seats, or wailing at the top of their lungs. The Holy Spirit was obviously bearing witness to my words in a tremendous way and prevailing in power within their hearts, and I thought a genuine revival was going to break out within seconds.

Seeing the conviction so heavy and the people’s hearts right at the breaking point, and having proved to them with clear scripture that they did not truly know Christ because they were living in willful and unrepentant sin, I was almost sure the whole place would soon be on their knees or faces crying out to God for mercy, like I said. The weight of conviction was so thick you could tangibly feel it. I continued preaching, and now drove the point straight home. I called out the fact that they had just taken communion and were completely unworthy and that this was sin on top of sin – not only are they living in sin, but they have the audacity to eat the Lord’s body and drink His blood in such a state as if they were holy. I told them this was the gravest of sins and they were eating and drinking damnation to themselves and provoking the wrath of God. The conviction was very heavy and this sent it off the charts. I was sure that a revival was breaking out now as the whole place seemed to freeze with the sense of great guilt and personal awareness of sin.

But then, to my absolute amazement, the people did not start weeping and wailing for their transgressions and terrible delusions. To the contrary, they immediately hardened their hearts after being so obviously convinced and convicted. One of them suddenly burst out into some kind of sick and twisted laughter. Then they all began laughing. They mocked me and laughed at me. I loved these people and thought they were my friends, but now they were laughing and mocking at me, and everything I had to say. Not only did they reject the truth and want nothing to do with it, but they mocked me as a fool for trying to bring it to them.

That was it. That was the dream. When I woke up, suddenly it hit me like a ton of bricks: It is not that these people don’t know the truth and need someone to tell them so they can be aware and repent, but the fact is, they don’t want to know the truth. Even though they don’t know the truth, they still don’t want to because they love their lies, false assurances, and false doctrines that justify their compromised lifestyles and are deceived by their own lies and self-justifications on top of the delusion that God handed them over to. They are in love with mammon and are playing the harlot with the things of this world, [i]“lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God”[/i].

The dream is self-explanatory. But please permit me to speak my heart. The churches in America for the most part are totally apostate. I have realized that there is no hope for them as a whole. A few souls from their midst may be plucked from the fire here and there, but as a whole, the system is apostate and the people in it are handed over to strong delusion. It will not be revived. It is fallen from the truth and its eyes have been blinded to it. Revival can’t happen to apostate people who are handed over to strong delusion. Backsliders: yes! Apostates: no! Their consciences are seared as with a hot iron.

Many are saying, “Judgment is coming! Judgment will soon come!” but I say, “Are you blind”? The judgment of God upon America is not yet to come - [b]it is already here[/b]! While physical judgment may tarry yet a little longer, the fact is that spiritual judgment, which is the most terrible and damnable form of judgment there is, is already here in full force.

Physical judgment is an act of mercy because, depending on the scope and devastation of it, will either wake some people up to repent, or it will destroy them all before they store up more wrath against the day of Judgment when the punishment will be greater eternally. But spiritual judgment doesn’t prevent greater eternal wrath; instead, it only increases it! Spiritual judgment doesn’t wake anybody up – it only sends strong delusion to keep them all asleep while the weight of God’s wrath accumulates from above until the weight of it becomes so great that it bursts forth with the fury and ferocity of a fire that burns so hot that it can never be quenched!

O dear remnant of God, get your eyes off the physical, and put them on the spiritual, [i]“for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal”[/i]. I believe we in America are in the midst of the most terrible and greatest spiritual judgment that the world has ever known this side of the Cross. We are in the midst of the great “falling away” (Gr. “apostasia”, apostasy) that was spoken of by the Apostle Paul (2 Thessalonians 2:3). These are the last days of which many explicit warnings were given by Christ and His Apostles against being deceived. And the great masses have ignored the sure word of prophecy.

[i]“…because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness”[/i] (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12). The great masses do not love the truth; they hate it! For this reason, God Himself has sent them strong delusion. They now believe a lie and will be damned because of it. Do you realize what this is saying? [i]“God shall send them strong delusion”[/i]. God sent it! You cannot preach the truth and wake people up if God is the one who has sent the delusion to put them to sleep. If it is against His sovereign will for them to be brought to the truth, then no matter what you do or how hard you preach, they won’t be brought to the truth! It doesn't lead them to repentance, instead, it only seals their fate.

[i]“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears”[/i] (2 Timothy 4:3). Just as in my dream, I thought maybe the pastor was the one preventing them from hearing the truth, but I soon realized afterwards that they themselves do not love the truth, and they are the ones who have heaped that pastor/preacher unto themselves to tickle their own itching ears. They do not endure sound doctrine; they rather speak against it! They laugh and mock the true Gospel. [i]“For the time will come”[/i], said the Apostle Paul. That time is now here! We are living in the midst of it! They do not want to hear the truth. Just as they said to Isaiah the prophet:

[i]“They tell the seers, ‘Stop seeing visions!’ They tell the prophets, ‘Don’t tell us what is right. Tell us nice things. Tell us lies. Forget all this gloom. Get off your narrow path. Stop telling us about your ‘Holy One of Israel”[/i] (Isaiah 30:10-11 NLT). They do not want to hear of holiness, righteousness and justice. They do not want to hear of a narrow path that only few find. They do not want to hear the truth that cuts and pierces to the heart. And the result is that God has sent strong delusion, closed their eyes and their hearts, and has given them a spirit of slumber. [i]“They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand”[/i] (Isaiah 44:18). [i]“And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them”[/i] (Matthew 13:14-15, Acts 28:27). [i]“According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; unto this day”[/i] (Romans 11:8).

I have stated all of this to say this: revival will not and cannot happen within the apostate church system. I know we have many “pillow prophets” and “Disneyland seers” who prophesy over and over again, “A great move of God is coming to America! There is reformation coming to the churches! There will be great revival! Signs and wonders will happen in every church! We’re seeing the beginning of it happening right now!” and so on. Enough of that nonsensical and unscriptural ear-tickling garbage! The only revival the apostate church in America is going to get is a counterfeit revival with counterfeit signs and wonders! Go see your gold dust, angel feathers, and diamonds that fall from the ceiling! Go yield yourselves to your animal demons! Go writhe like snakes! Go get hands laid on you and knocked over by that preacher who’s addicted to Internet pornography! This is your revival, apostate Babylon! And yet you all remain in sin, wickedness, and compromise such as never before. The earth itself is groaning in pain under the weight of your transgressions.

Babylon (America and its apostate religious system) has corrupted the whole earth with the wine of her fornication and has become the habitation of devils! Physical judgment would indeed be an act of mercy. The spiritual judgment is already here and it’s fallen onto the apostate system and most of those who are in it, and like I said, this is the most severe and worst kind of judgment there is!

And now a word to the remnant:

[i]“Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty”[/i] (2 Corinthians 6:17-18). [i]“Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues” [/i](Revelation 18:4). Separate yourselves from the system. Stop wasting your time trying to convince those who God has sent strong delusion to and go to those who will listen! There is coming a time when we must wipe the dust from our feet and go to those who are dying in their sins and willing to hear what we have to say.

Don’t get sucked into Satan’s slick counterfeits. Separate yourself from the workers of Satan who seek to deceive you. [i]“And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works”[/i] (2 Corinthians 11:14-15). Come out from among the deceived and separate yourself unto the Lord in holiness and righteousness, walking according to the commands of Jesus and working out your own salvation with fear and trembling. It’s time to walk solemn and serious before your God in holy fear and sanctification of heart and life.

And before all the “out of church” crowd gives a hearty “amen” to what I’m saying and thinks they have everything right, let me state that it’s not enough just to separate yourself and point out all the faults of the apostate system. You must also stand up and do what is right in the love of Christ. You want to bash the false gospel, so when’s the last time you preached the true Gospel? You want to condemn others for not helping the poor as Jesus commanded, so when’s the last time you showed the love of Christ to the poor? You want to bash others for being pew sitters and not doing anything, so when’s the last time you demonstrated with your actions to the lost world around you what you claim to believe? When’s the last time you reached out to the lost in your community and sought to lead them into the knowledge of the truth?

To all of those who are spending all their time trying to reach their dead churches with the true Gospel, I hope to stir you up by putting you in remembrance of Judgment Day. You will have to give an account to God of why you have wasted all your time casting pearls before the swine of Babylon when there were masses around the world who were in need and crying out with a Macedonian call to “Come help us”, waiting for someone to take the truth to them. The ones invited to the marriage feast won’t come, so now it’s time to go into the highways and hedges and compel them to come in that the Lord’s house may be filled (Luke 14). Those that think they are healthy have no need of a doctor, but only those who are sick. Jesus didn't come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance. Can we not learn from His pattern?

Many of those who know the truth are spending all their time and labor trying to reach the deceived crowds inside the steeple-house buildings. The question is not, "Is this the [i]good[/i] thing to do?" The question is, "Is this the [i]perfect[/i] thing to do?" If you are not bearing fruit with all your labor trying to reach those "at ease in Zion" who are "laying upon their comfortable couches and beds of ivory", why do you continue to waste time? Take the truth to those who will listen! You'll pass through the fire on the Day of Judgment and make it out, but your fruitless works will be burned up. Why not go out and gather for yourself the eternal fruit of lost souls who are hurting and recognize their need so you can present them at the feet of the Son of God on that Day that He may receive the reward of His suffering?

Am I saying to stop preaching the truth to the apostates? God forbid! To the contrary, [i]“Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and show my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins”[/i] (Isaiah 58:1). If anything, stoke the fire and increase the heat! Be a watchman, blow the trumpet in Zion, sound the alarm on the holy mountain, and don’t hold back! Draw the line of separation and make up your mind to stand for truth no matter the cost; no matter the opinions of men; no matter the sacrifice you’ll have to go through. [i]“And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word”[/i] (1 Kings 18:21). If you know what’s right, then do it and stop cowarding out! Make up your mind!

There is still hope for revival among the remnant. I do not believe there will be a sweeping and massive great awakening in America, but I do believe that there may very well still be outpourings of the blessed Spirit of God in various isolated places depending on the desperation of the remnant in this hour. Right now though, I do not see any such desperation that is calculated to bring about such an outpouring. All I see, for the most part with very few exceptions, is apathy and complacency.

I want to sound out a flat out rebuke to those who know the truth and don’t live it with all their heart. The hour is late and the situation is urgent! For those who know the truth of these things and yet are not desperate, do not “sigh and cry” for the transgressions of the land around you, and refuse to pray in fervency, you need to be rebuked. Have you no heart for the lost? Have you no love for the souls of men? “Because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold”. Have you become desensitized to all the wickedness and delusion around you and now have a cold heart toward the masses of souls headed on the broad path to destruction? Have you become the slothful and unprofitable servant? Has even the remnant been duped into a lukewarm complacency? My God, let it never be!

WAKE UP!!!

Wipe the sleep from your eyes, dust off your swords, and mount up! The greatest battle of all time is at hand! Be awake and alert and have your lamp burning! [i]“Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruning hooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong”[/i] (Joel 3:10).

I fear that the greatest spiritual massacre of all time is happening right now. What’s happening with the souls of men right now, souls who are on a grease-slide to Hell, is so horrific that it makes the Holocaust look like a picnic. We’re talking about the priceless, eternal souls of men – hundreds and hundreds of millions of them! How many are being cast into Hell by the day?

It’s time to get desperate! It’s time to agonize in prayer! It’s time to declare an extended fast and seek the face of God like there’s no tomorrow! We can have an outpouring of the Spirit if we will only pay the price and meet the conditions. Will you do it? Or will you continue to halt between two decisions and be complacent? The decision is yours, but just be aware that you will have to give an account of your decision to God on Judgment Day. Those in the book of Ezekiel who refused to “sigh and cry” for the transgression around them were slaughtered (see Ezekiel chapter 9). What will happen to you if you do the same in light of the extremity of the times we are now living in? Do you think God and His standards have changed? If His standards haven’t changed – then you’d better sigh and cry before it’s too late.

I want to ask you: Do you want revival or not? Don’t halt between two decisions. If you want revival, then get desperate and pray with a fervency and holy violence until you get it. If you don’t want revival, then forget about all the words of the ear-tickling prophets because it won’t happen at all if you don’t seek the Lord with all your heart. It’s not going to just fall onto your lap as you sit by, laugh, eat, have a merry old time and twiddle your thumbs. There’s one way that revival comes: holy desperation that works itself out in desperate prayer. We need intercessory prayer, persevering prayer, fervent prayer, agonizing prayer, and violent prayer! Unless we have it, revival will never come in any form, not even among a small remnant.

Forget the Laodicean prophets of America who repeatedly prophesy only good things. “Revival! Reformation! A new wave of blessing! A fresh outpouring!” they say. But I say unless you, the remnant of God in this nation, who walks in holiness and righteousness in the fear of God, who keeps Christ’s commandments, who have been chosen by the Lamb, who seek the face of God, who know the season of the hour; unless you start desperately fasting and praying in travail of soul and agony of mind before God there is no new wave of true revival coming.

[i]"Didn't I tell you?" the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat. "He does it every time. He never prophesies anything but bad news for me." Then Micaiah continued, "Listen to what the LORD says! I saw the LORD sitting on his throne with all the armies of heaven on his right and on his left. And the LORD said, 'Who can entice King Ahab of Israel to go into battle against Ramoth-gilead so that he can be killed there?' There were many suggestions, until finally a spirit approached the LORD and said, 'I can do it!' "'How will you do this?' the LORD asked. "And the spirit replied, 'I will go out and inspire all Ahab's prophets to speak lies.' "'You will succeed,' said the LORD. 'Go ahead and do it.' "So you see, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of your prophets. For the LORD has determined disaster for you" [/i](2 Chronicles 18:17-22).

Remnant of God in America: NOW is the time! You've been waiting for the word to go on an all-out thrust of desperate praying and preaching, well the time is RIGHT NOW!!! Let us put aside our petty differences, unite together under the bloodstained banner of Jesus Christ, and call a solemn assembly to weep between the porch and the altar until God visits us with His grace and mercy! The hour is so very late! The sun is about to set and the night is soon coming where no man may work.

[i]”Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly: Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet. Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God? Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people”[/i] (Joel 2:16-18).

The King will soon return. Judgment will be executed. Wrath and vengeance will be wrought on all the inhabitants of the earth. Are there no intercessors?

[i]“Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and a helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak. According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompense to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompense. So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD”[/i]
(Isaiah 59:15-20).

The remnant of God must unite to fast and pray in holy desperation until the Lord sends the blessing. Then they must take it out into their communities – to the poor, to the outcasts, to the “highway men”, to the down-and-outs, and to the “foolish things of the world” with fervency, boldness and urgency. If not, then all hope is lost. And the hour is so late that there’s no time to wait to make up your mind. Decide now! Then GO DO!!! It’s not time to fuss over unessential doctrines and names. Those days are about over. It’s time to unite together on our common cause – the holiness of God and the glory of His name – and FIGHT, not by might, nor by power, but by the Spirit of the Lord of hosts!!!

[i]“The LORD will demonstrate his holy power before the eyes of all the nations. The ends of the earth will see the salvation of our God. Go now, leave your bonds and slavery. Put Babylon behind you, with everything it represents, for it is unclean to you. You are the LORD'S holy people. Purify yourselves, you who carry home the vessels of the LORD”[/i] (Isaiah 52:10-11 NLT).

Sincerely in the name of the glorious Lamb of God,

-Josef Urban

Please pass this urgent message on.

Contact me: Greatlycommissioned@hotmail.com

S
Smokey


Very convicting message. Time truly is short, do not miss out on labouring in the harvest. Get right with God, seek his guidance, and be ready to do whatever He says.

Blessings Greg

S
Spitfire

Hello Josef. My friend, Dorcas, sent me a copy of your post by email since I rarely sign onto sermonindex anymore. This is a true word and warning from God, in my opinion. I have this same passion and conviction, but it has nearly driven me crazy. I believed that I could cry aloud in the church and everyone would be, as you wrote, "glad to see me". But, alas, I was rejected fervently and deeply wounded. I went away sad. In fact, I have sank into a deep depression because I haven't known what to do with myself. In the midst of it all, my husband got saved on Father's Day of this year. That has been like a beacon to me that God is still with me. But...my husband wanted to "find" a church for us to get involved in and we did. It's a brand new upstart church which meets in a local High School, just a handful of people, so they haven't had time to grow into a full picture of Babylon. Yet, I can see that their vision is the same as every other church. They're nice and they have embraced my husband and he loves to go there, but the "lie" is really nagging me. I have wrestled with alot of confusion, thinking that perhaps [i]I[/i] am the crazy, judgemental one. I don't really say much there. We've only been there since about October, so I have just been trying to figure out what God wants from me.

I want to say a word or two about this way of thinking. It has made me think that I am crazy. For 3 years now, I have been struggling with bouts of deep depression, because there are so few who agree. I wrestle with thinking that I am just a nobody. Why should anyone listen to me? I am constantly trying to figure out if I'm "right" or am I just crazy? Recently, I too, had a dream. I believe it was from God to encourage me and to say to me, that I am in agreement with Him. I would like to share it here:

I was in Africa. I was in a large arena. The place was packed with people. It almost looked like the Coliseum of Rome. I was backstage. There was a very official looking African woman there in native garb. She was the leader of some tribe. The event that I was there for was a ceremony of reconciliation between the blacks and the whites. The leader of the whites began to explain to me about the ceremony. He said, "We are here today to celebrate the reconciliation of two nations, but while we are here, we will be rounding up those who have committed crimes against us and punishing them for their crimes in the center ring." I was appalled! I was thinking to myself, this is a joke! You can't have reconciliation without forgiveness! I looked over at the African leader and she had tears rolling down her face. I walked over to her and she said, "It isn't going to work. This whole thing is a joke." I said to her, "I agree." She smiled at me and said, "Thank you." That was the end of the dream.

When I awoke, I knew that it was a dream from the Lord, so I went straight to prayer. God began to minister to me that I was in agreement with Him and he is pleased. He ministered to the rejection I feel for being in such a minority. He helped me see that sometimes, we have to oppose the entire system in order to agree with God. That, that opposing of the church as an institution, is what has almost made me a nut.

I came up under teaching that so exalted those in authority that you would never oppose them. It was considered "rebellion" to disagree.

Now, here I am back in a "church". And I'm wondering what it is that God is doing. I feel like a worm in a chicken lot. Thanks for your post, Josef. Dian.

M
myfirstLove

joseph, thankyou for sharing. this dream bears witness with my spirit.

the Lord has lead me and others to a seriouse prayer and fasting. He is gathering His people to a solemn assembly!

God be glorified thru your remnant!

the trumpet has blown!

soldiers listen and you will hear the trumpet sound!

C
c52

You're nuts...

I
IRONMAN

bro c52


c52 wrote:
You're nuts...

how do you figure that? :-?

T
tinluke

Josef,

Thanks for sharing this. This is exactly what the Lord has been showing me! I posted something kinda similar last week under the below link. I believe this is a very critical hour. It's life and death serious!!

A Brokeness and challenge

I
InTheLight

Josef, many thanks for posting this message.

It is my intention to begin of time of prayer and fasting, seeking the burden of the Lord. Perhaps others here would care to join. I would also like to suggest listening to [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=3843]A Call to Anguish[/url] again.

In Christ,

Ron

S
sermonindex

I believe this is a very critical hour. It's life and death serious!!

Question is, do we spend time and energy trying to find a good church? Or spend time trying to "revive" the churches? Or "come out of her" and pray in the closet?

I've been without fellowship for my entire life and now have Spirit-filled phone conversations with Christians in other cities... and know only one family in my own city that are as tired of the hypocracy as me...

Isaiah, Ezekiel, John the Baptist, Paul, Peter, and Jesus Himself spent most of their time outside of the Temple. Perhaps that's the Mystery of remaining "seperate"?

C
CJaKfOrEsT


Corey_H wrote:
I believe this is a very critical hour. It's life and death serious!!

Question is, do we spend time and energy trying to find a good church? Or spend time trying to "revive" the churches? Or "come out of her" and pray in the closet?

For myself, it is a matter of "All of the above" to some degree. Presently, we are in the outskirts of a new fellowship, having left an old, fellowshipping with housechurchers, but the most intense of relationship is with people whose faces I have never seen in the flesh.

Perhaps we just need to "become THE church" and let God sort out the details.

S
sermonindex

Just occurred to me that I AM the temple, and so are you. Where and when we worship are details.

S
sermonindex

Josef Urban,
my brother, I am sitting here stunned at the computer. I have already made two posts prior to this, one of which is in the thread "Carnal Christians, where I get real and confess my unprofitableness, my own wretched condition.

and then I read the Word the Lord gave you, and its a dagger thru my heart. Now what I'm gonna say, I say, not to falsely lift you up, and tickle your ear, or fill you full of pride, but I never read on this forum such a message so full of unction, so full of God as to convict me to the heart of my very being. Never before, with the exception of some post "freecd" put up, have I ever cut, paste and will print out a post,get on knees and pray over it, and beg God to BURN it into my heart.

Yes! Now! Holy Desperation.

I listened many times, when I was feeling empty, to a message Michael Brown gave called "Holy Desperation". I would absorb what he was saying in the Holy Spirit, but God gave you a message that goes even further beyond that. Broken as I may be right now, stumbled and backslidden, I feel the truth and the love and the urgency of the Word He gave you.

Now, I believe you are a friend of my dear beloved brother Patrick Ersig, who I love deeply in the Lord, and long to fellowship with him in person. His street preaching and his benevolence ministry in Detroit fills me with admiration, and if memory serves correct, I believe I have seen video of you preaching with him, Let me be real now, and confess. When I saw you street preaching, I was turned off, I thought you were just screeching and venting. I don't say that to insult, I say that to apologize and repent. I was WRONG. I was focusing thru the lens of my own "opinion", thru my flesh. I ask your forgiveness for making such an assessment, God is glorious, He is growing you, and the clarion call He has given you is true. The Spirit within me testifies that it is true.

if you are "nuts", oh praise God, let me be insane then, lets us be fools. (and C52, dear brother, in love I say to you, and I know you don't know me, but this young believer is not "nuts". I beg you in the name of Jesus, search your heart and reconsider, I ask this in all meekness)

Josef, i will write via email, but I want to ask you to give me two favors in the Lord, please read my confession in "Carnal Christians", and then if you can, and want to, led to,please pray for me, specifically. With the world and the Church the way it is, I know that sounds like a selfish request, but when you read my confession and cry in that post, you will see that I am not asking for a lime green caddillac, or a McMansion, or a pocketfull of currency, banish the thought. You will know precisely, in the Holy Spirit what I need.

I know this, in closing, that very soon, God willing, that you me and Patrick will be praying and interceding together in person, with tears, and groans before the very Throne of God, i praise His Name, and I send you my love in Jesus,

your brother neil

S
SeanHobson

LETS START A DENOMINATION AND CLEANSE THE CHURCH!!!


who's with us??


j/k. Seriously though, I didn't read your post Joseph because it was too long, but I did read spitfire's which was somewhat similar. I pray for you spitfire becauase I'm in the same position. I'm grieved all the anointed preachers here on on SI are either dead or preach in every other state but Ohio. I wish I saw visions, but then again I sin against the light I have and don't want to add further to my cup of wrath. Therefore I'll pray for spitfire, corey, myself et all, that we find true fellowship with the Father and son--then with our brethern.

C
CJaKfOrEsT


Corey_H wrote:
Just occurred to me that I AM the temple, and so are you. Where and when we worship are details.

:-D

C
CJaKfOrEsT


SeanHobson wrote:
LETS START A DENOMINATION AND CLEANSE THE CHURCH!!!

Didn't work for Luther...Why would it work for us?

Two words for you ... "Wheat" and "tares" (Mat 13:24-30,36-43)

Y
Yeshuasboy


CJaKfOrEsT wrote:
Perhaps we just need to "become THE church" and let God sort out the details.

This quote blesses me brother :-D I thankyou for sharing it.
God bless you way down under,
richie

C
crsschk

Two words for you ... "Wheat" and "tares" (Mat 13:24-30,36-43)

That was all that was needed, to stop my hesitation. I do not want to qualify this other than [i]test all things[/i].

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Physical judgment is an act of mercy because, depending on the scope and devastation of it, will either wake some people up to repent, or it will destroy them all before they store up more wrath against the day of Judgment when the punishment will be greater eternally. But spiritual judgment doesn’t prevent greater eternal wrath; instead, it only increases it! Spiritual judgment doesn’t wake anybody up – it only sends strong delusion to keep them all asleep while the weight of God’s wrath accumulates from above until the weight of it becomes so great that it bursts forth with the fury and ferocity of a fire that burns so hot that it can never be quenched!

I have stated all of this to say this: revival will not and cannot happen within the apostate church system.

Say's who? Honestly. Where do you get an idea of what constitutes "Spiritual judgment" as this is defined?

And before all the “out of church” crowd gives a hearty “amen” to what I’m saying and thinks they have everything right, let me state that it’s not enough just to separate yourself and point out all the faults of the apostate system.

To all of those who are spending all their time trying to reach their dead churches with the true Gospel, I hope to stir you up by putting you in remembrance of Judgment Day. You will have to give an account to God of why you have wasted all your time casting pearls before the swine of Babylon when there were masses around the world who were in need and crying out with a Macedonian call to “Come help us”, waiting for someone to take the truth to them.

Many of those who know the truth are spending all their time and labor trying to reach the deceived crowds inside the steeple-house buildings. The question is not, "Is this the good thing to do?" The question is, "Is this the perfect thing to do?" If you are not bearing fruit with all your labor trying to reach those "at ease in Zion" who are "laying upon their comfortable couches and beds of ivory", why do you continue to waste time? Take the truth to those who will listen!

Am I saying to stop preaching the truth to the apostates? God forbid! To the contrary, “Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and show my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins” (Isaiah 58:1). If anything, stoke the fire and increase the heat! Be a watchman, blow the trumpet in Zion, sound the alarm on the holy mountain, and don’t hold back!

There is still hope for revival among the remnant. I do not believe there will be a sweeping and massive great awakening in America, but I do believe that there may very well still be outpourings of the blessed Spirit of God in various isolated places depending on the desperation of the remnant in this hour.

There is a lot of contradicitions in all this. "Forget the 'apostates', don't forget them? Don't bother the 'dead church' ... Go blow the trumpet?" Recognize the word "all" in this yet also recognize something bothersome once again ...

[i]Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.[/i] Mat 13:24-30


If you don’t want revival, then forget about all the words of the ear-tickling prophets

Ever considered that this may be just such a thing? Something that tickles the ears of the 'remnant'? We have a few here that think themselves of this ilk, that a strong word necessitates a stamp of approval. I am questioning it. This may make for good preaching but I am a bit surprised how fast it is being accepted without much thinking. The emotions may be stirred and a certain 'Amen' follows from the likeminded, but I think we may be skimming across the surface.

I am very much uncomfortable with a lot of these 'fixed notions', of how things are and how they will continue to be. From what I am able to gather there is always an 'out', better, an [i]"IF"[/i]. The great difference is whether the [i]"IF"[/i] is from the Lord or from the man.

S
SeanHobson

LETS START A DENOMINATION AND CLEANSE THE CHURCH!!! who's with us?? [b]j/k[/b]. Seriously though, I didn't read your post Joseph because it was too long, but I did read spitfire's which was somewhat similar. I pray for you spitfire becauase I'm in the same position. I'm grieved all the anointed preachers here on on SI are either dead or preach in every other state but Ohio. I wish I saw visions, but then again I sin against the light I have and don't want to add further to my cup of wrath. Therefore I'll pray for spitfire, corey, myself et all, that we find true fellowship with the Father and son--then with our brethern.

I was joking... :-(

S
sermonindex

Therefore I'll pray for spitfire, corey, myself et all, that we find true fellowship with the Father and son--then with our brethern.

Please tell me you WEREN'T joking. I need this to be true.

T
tinluke

Question is, do we spend time and energy trying to find a good church? Or spend time trying to "revive" the churches? Or "come out of her" and pray in the closet?

I've been without fellowship for my entire life and now have Spirit-filled phone conversations with Christians in other cities... and know only one family in my own city that are as tired of the hypocracy as me...


Corey,

I know exactly where you're at. These same questions plague me too and I have tried all of the above!! I don't feel that I have any clear-cut answers, but durning desperate prayer, the Lord has spoken a few things to me concerning the church.

He has told me to always speak the truth and reflect HIS radient light. HE has told me that HE has opened our eyes to pray and to interceed because a shaken is coming to destroy all that is not built by HIM. And most recently HE told me that I need to tear down my image of what I think church should look like. That HE wants to do something and it has nothing to do with my image of how things should be in the church. And when I ask the Lord specific questions, like "where should I go and what should I do," all I hear from HIM is, "Take My hand and follow me."

I know this may seem alittle vague, but I know personally that I don't have to go very far to find a need. I don't have to leave my own house to see where the enemy is tryinig to come in and kill, rob and destroy. I think we need to do exacly what Jesus did when HE was here. HE came to set that captives free and HE did it not by joining a ministry, but by just following HIS Father's heart. HE was obedient unto death and loved until the very end. I think that should be our goal as far as church is concerned.

In HIM,

Tina

D
DIEDTOSELF

My family and I are on the same page you brothers and sisters are. I live near the minneapolis area and my nearest true fellowship is now a missionary in India. Pray that eyes will soon be opened to the deception in the church!!

C
c52

Ecc.5:7

S
SeanHobson

I meant the Denomination joke part corey. :)

R
rowdy2

Rest
When I rose from my bed this morning, I began a new day knowing that my plan for today is to do my duty in service of The Kingdom to stand. I stand in opposition to all idolatry which is the doing of right and wrong in your eyes and teaching others from any source other than the will of God found in His Holy Word The Bible. I searched the scriptures and they are they which testify of Jesus. I seek Him not honour from men that I might have life.
I seek growth and maturity each day in every precept of God’s Word but not by the wisdom of the flesh. We all sound like Job’s friends and the real nightmare is being surrounded by Job’s friends and not being able to hear the Holy Spirit. What ever good I do in my walk on the earth I do in service of The Heavenly Kingdom and the only reward I seek is to be pleasing to my Father and to follow His Son the Risen Glorified Christ. His yoke is not heavy. My yoke is not like the yoke of bondage that is imposed on them that serve the creature and eat of the tree of good and evil and are wise in their own eyes. I eat of the Tree of Life, the spirit of Jesus and drink of His spirit of living water and I walk in hope and not in the vanity of my own wisdom.
Christians are a peculiar stiff neck people. By faith we are passing through the water of separation [present reality]. We are being regenerated by the Word of God. From prideful, covetous, and worldly flesh to spiritual children. We seek after spiritual gifts, love and charity that produce works wrought by God from the beginning. We do not claim any merit or self righteousness. We are sinners, men and women as pertaining to the flesh but by the grace of Almighty God we wait in hope that we too will shine forth as reincarnated born again spiritual sons not by the will of man or by the will of the flesh but by the will of our Spiritual Father.
We are called to love Christ who is the Great I Am, who lived and died in the flesh and rose again and was glorified by His Father in heaven and earth. He comes as a thief in the night to those who seek Him. I know Him in the spirit and He is present in me and teaches me daily in the Tabernacle of The Living God, which is my heart. The Ark of the New Testament is my testimony that lives in my heart and it proceeds me as the Ark of the covenant proceeded the children of Israel in the wilderness.
The laws of God are ministered to me continually by the High Priest of the New Testament. I am no longer under a school master, unlearned and unstable and I do not wrest with the scriptures. I am not a child who although they are heirs to all have only a servants reward. When we overcome worldliness [present reality] we have the inheritance of The Spirit of Truth in the tabernacle of our hearts to teach us I subject my will on earth to His and am under His dominion. He leads me in the war of the spirit and the flesh and the spiritual victories that I win are made possible by the faith i have in our Lord. The Holy Spirit purged my spirit from the adulteress spirit that trusted in my flesh. Christ Jesus came to each of us individually and garnish our spirit with love for God and love and charity for our fellow man. I do not stumble in darkness, but through faith in Him that fights for me, i already have the victory. By faith and the Grace of God I have the liberty that is in those who are in Christ Jesus, the First Begotten Son.
I am in His rest [Sabbath] I have answered the knock at the door of our Lord. I have welcomed Him in and he shut and sealed the door and I am hid in our Lord and His will. He teaches me not to go out side the will of God to do the works of the flesh mind again. I fight off the attacks of our old nature with its demons of antichrist that tries to return. The Word Of God teaches me to stand in opposition to all idolatry. My prize is for my quickened spirit to be wed to Jesus’s spirit and counted in the Kingdom of God and written in the Lamb’s book of life. My old spirit is dead and I am no longer counted in the number of that Mystery Spirit that Great Harlot of Babylon the spirit of the world of flesh. The babble and the lies of the world of flesh idolatry. Now the Holy Spirit pours out on me. I am His servants and I am hidden in His heavenly [ spiritual ] body which to me is Paradise. Not the world, Jesus came in Judgement to the world and is stamping out the grapes of wrath which I was one. By the grace of God I am a new bottle and contain a new wine [ spirit ]

A unprofitable servant only doing what is my duty. Freely received and freely given Eddie

S
sermonindex

Re: Questioning

Mike Balog quoted
'Two words for you ... "Wheat" and "tares" (Mat 13:24-30,36-43)'

Then wrote

That was all that was needed, to stop my hesitation. I do not want to qualify this other than [i]test all things[/i].
In both this, and the Parable of the Sower, the field is the world. Both have to be received in their most appropriate context.

In the first parable, and enemy sowed tares in a field where God's people were already sown. Surely this goes back to the earliest days of the Church, and it throws up the contrast between those who believe, and those who do not (as I understand it, because those who do not believe, will be gathered up to be burned completely).

In the second parable, the discussion is about the ground of one's heart, and what grows from it, and, whether one resists the cares of the world, and the deceitfulness of riches, in order to bear even more fruit, by faithful perseverance in the truth. This is a straightforward comparison between Christians.

Ever considered that this may be just such a thing? Something that tickles the ears of the 'remnant'?
While this is a fair warning to us not to follow men rather than God, isn't there a contradiction in [i]your[/i] terms here, just one skepticism too far? I mean, if this IS a word to 'the remnant', then these are they who ARE going to be saved in the last day, and we simply cannot dismiss it in the same terms as the false prophecies being given in the 'peace, peace, when there is no peace' category, with which it must be compared.

There is also the matter of the witness of the Holy Spirit. Josef is far from the first to come to SI to post having had a deeply disturbing dream in which he KNOWS it was God speaking to him. Don't you think that EVERYone (that is, every true believer, who really DOES know the Lord), who has this sort of dream or vision goes through just a [i]tiny[/i] bit of bringing it to the Lord and settling their own heart and mind before they launch it out on to the world stage? Don't you think they are concerned for the credibility of God Himself, and their own eternity, should they be misleading THE CHURCH?


I really [i][b]do[/b][/i] understand, having been through my own very long slow loop, that your trust has been shaken by the grounding in false doctrine to which you were exposed as a young Christian, but, we both have to see this as part of the Lord's own dealing with us, to bring us through to a completely secure salvation in Himself - to enable Him to shake out [i]all[/i] the dross of assumption and worldly conditioning which preceded [i]even[/i] our salvation.


While 'test all things' may always be a relevant injunction, I'm concerned that whether it is a 'strong' word, or a tentative word, you offer [i]too[/i] much resistance to 'the' word which comes through the charismata as they (are supposed to operate) in [i]the[/i] Body of Christ (as we find Him demonstrating His life in us here), when there is clear witness from not a few.

So, I'm beginning to wonder how you, personally, ever decide that it's ok for God to speak to someone else through the operation of the gifts of the Spirit, even if He has not spoken that word to you personally, through that operation of the gift given to another?

Is there a time when you accept the operation of the [i]organism[/i] of the Body of Christ in SI, and if so, please would you also come back and post when you finally come to a settlement in your own heart, that a word [u]has[/u] been from God, which you have questioned?

I ask this in all sincerity, because while the newborn ARE just babes, they are also in need of support and encouragement as they spread their spiritual wings and fly in the Spirit as the new creation they have become, and there IS a point at which it is counter-productive to their growth and development, to be continually questioned, every time they have the apparent misfortune in God, to have a prophetic ministry.

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 14 (NKJV)
29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge.

Now, I know it doesn't clearly say 'and let the other [u]prophets[/u] judge', but there may be something in the Greek (help anyone?) which clarifies whether 'others' is directly related to 'prophets', or really could mean to include even those who don't have that gift.

30 But if [anything] is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent.

This would mean that all these verses are about prophecy only, 'revealed to another', therefore meaning 'revealed to another prophet'.

I have no idea if this is how I first heard this passage expounded, or, if this is just the sense it makes to me in the Spirit, but, I think it might help to settle your confusion if you looked into this, especially in light of the next couple of verses, and the way they are tied into the Revelation of Jesus to John.

31 For you can [u]all[/u] prophesy one by one, that [u]all[/u] may learn and all may be encouraged.

I take this 'all my learn and all may be encouraged', as a reference to the way God speaks to our immediate need of understanding on a day-to-day basis as we walk on with Him. I have NEVER thought it was about prophecy in the remit of the Old Testament prophets, although there may still be a few who prophesy since Pentecost, with a world-view, [i]from God[/i].

32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

Clearly, a prophet is not [i]bound[/i] to speak out in the Church what, or all that, God gives Him, especially in light of v 30. But of course, speaking is what God does, and we as His people are called to speak too. It just may not be [i]in the Church[/i] that our gift of prophecy is to be operated.

As I write this, Mike, it occurs to me that perhaps your skepticism would be better directed to those sitting under false doctrine.

Perhaps your burden is really for [i]them[/i], and rather than questioning the gift of those who are merely operating under God what He has given them [i]for the Church[/i], in the light of

Revelation 19:10 (KJV)
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: [b]for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy[/b].

you should be expecting [i]yourself[/i] to prophesy, and should be seeking God as to how to bring it to the ears of those who really need to hear it.

1 Cor 14:33
For God is not [the author] of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. (NKJV)


Dear Mike,

This is not to say that all your challenges here on SI are wasted, or should not be made, but, we, here, need to have confidence in what God is saying to us, and to grow in trust of each other in God, and in the unity of the Spirit.


There are many other gifts operating here on and through SI, which totally escape your scrutiny, or, again, you do not acknowledge them. Maybe you don't identify them, and simply have an aversion to any person making a [i]claim[/i] for what gifts they have.

If this is the case, that's ok for a season, but, there is a very easy scriptural case to be made for believers to [i]lay claim to their gifts[/i], and to [u]know[/u] what they are, and to understand how they are to use them, just as Paul knew he was [u]called to preach[/u], and to the Gentiles.


Thank you for bearing with me.

but I am a bit surprised how fast it is being accepted without much thinking.
Lastly, I believe you underestimate the genuine fervour of the saints here, who are very likely [i]all[/i] seeking the witness of the Spirit, before 'accepting' [i]any[/i] word from another.


One of the great things about SI is that we are all nobodies. This doesn't mean we don't have the same Holy Spirit instructing us, who instructed the early Church. We DO.

I would hate to think that if a famous preacher came here and spoke the same word as Josef did, ANY of us would believe it [i]simply because[/i] of that speaker's apparent status.

'test all things'

Amen.

S
Spitfire

crsschk wrote:

I am a bit surprised how fast it is being accepted without much thinking.

Hey Mike, I'm insulted by this remark. You have no idea how much "thinking" I do. This really does make my blood pressure rise, Brother. Are you the only one who does "much thinking"? Are you saying that if we did enough "thinking" we would see that you are right? Are those the people who do "much thinking"? How long did you take to think about this one? Dian.

S
sermonindex

Josef_Urban wrote:

so when’s the last time you preached the true Gospel

The word "Gospel" is such a generic term in our day. Please tell us what you mean by the "True Gospel".


Spitfire wrote:

He ministered to the rejection I feel for being in such a minority. He helped me see that sometimes, we have to oppose the entire system in order to agree with God. That, that opposing of the church as an institution, is what has almost made me a nut.


Didn't Elijah find himself in this place, and I don't think God validated his "minority thinking".
He told him:

Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.

Y
Yeshuasboy


crsschk wrote:
There is a lot of contradicitions in all this.

I have to agree with this statement, and was the first thing that came to my mind as I neared the end of the post a few days ago. I just chose not to comment at that time.
But now I feel compelled to because certain individuals are coming across as being upset with Mike's comments.
Can we not agree to disagree? Must we become carnal-minded? Let us dialogue and reason together reminding ourselves we are of the same Body with Christ Jesus as Head.
Brothers and sisters, when we post in these forums, we had better be prepared to receive criticism, and be prepared to answer in a way that will be pleasing to the Lord.
Correct, rebuke, exhort...
Let us take up our Cross and carry It,
An undeserving brother,
richie

R
RobertW

Hey Mike, I'm insulted by this remark. You have no idea how much "thinking" I do. This really does make my blood pressure rise, Brother. Are you the only one who does "much thinking"? Are you saying that if we did enough "thinking" we would see that you are right? Are those the people who do "much thinking"? How long did you take to think about this one? Dian.

I think that what Mike is saying here is that if there are inconsistencies in the statements then there needs to be a clarification at the least. One of the great problems right now that has wrecked some God sent ministers is that they have come off too strong at first and got the doors closed on them. That creates more of the victim type effect or a sense of 'rejection' when in reality their needed to be some ground work laid before the weight of the message was brought to bear. I have been in places where the word of the Lord was certainly rejected and yet the ones I hoped to preach repentance and revival came off so strong that people thought they were fanitical or even part of some cult group. I'm referring to several different people I know that this has happened to.

G.W. North once said that many are looking for God to send 'prophets' in our times- But that He was looking for more people who were like Jesus Christ. How did Christ respond to things? He was the perfect representation of God. He was not all the time taking shots at folks in such a way as to bull them over with cold hard facts opened up like a battery; often He told stories that forced the person to come to their own conclusions based on their own thinking and conscience. You can't force feed folk repentance and judgment. We need to focus on the New Testament pattern of how these things happened. After a while you will realize that our way is NOT working and that we need to seek the Lord and learn from the NT scriptures. We have a great work in front of us- but we must be following the scriptures and the leading of the Holy Spirit or else as the original poster found it will [i]only harden the people in their sins[/i]. God anoints His own word and procedures. When we follow Him what we do will be annointed. God is not willing that folk perish and has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. Read Psalm 106 and see the heart of God. When the people cried out He [i]heard[/i] their cry- even when they deserve judgment.

Mercy is when more kindness is shown that what justice requires. We need to always allow our words to be with grace and seasoned with salt. We can't become loose cannons or we are more of a problem that we would be the solution.

R
roadsign

Josef, as I read through your post I found myself frequently uttering, “Ah, yes!” Much of what you share closely parallels my own thoughts and revelatory experiences. This one is almost exactly the same as a dream I had: (!!)

The weight of conviction was so thick you could tangibly feel it.


To the contrary, they immediately hardened their hearts after being so obviously convinced and convicted.

This reminds me of the parable of the Seed and the Sower. In fact, Israel’s spiritual tragedy was recorded in the book of Hebrews especially to warn us not to repeat their sins. They did not listen to the voice of God when he spoke. They had the Spirit with them. They had his miracles. They had plenty of convicting moments. And yet they rejected his voice. “We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. 2:1 “Today, if you hear his voice , do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion.” 3:15


The judgment of God upon America is not yet to come - it is already here!

God’s spiritual judgment has been on the church much longer than we realize. Hearts have been hard, masked by politeness, human righteousness, and false piety. The institutionalized church hasn’t been listening to the voice of God; it has been continuing along merrily in its own steam.

Spiritual judgment doesn’t wake anybody up – it only sends strong delusion to keep them all asleep

Spiritual judgment: “Be every hearing, but never understanding. Be ever seeing, but never perceiving, Make the heart of his people calloused and their ears dull, and close their eyes….” This is a judgment sent by God. Isaiah proves that we cannot attribute the phenomena merely to the the devil.

We don’t hear much about this spiritual judgment, because we tend to think in terms of the visible and the natural phenomena. Another reason may be because of the many self-acclaimed prophets who themselves are spiritually blind and hardened while they continue to proclaim warnings of coming judgment. Because they operate outside of the Spirit's voice, they fail to see the spriitual judgment (that they themselves are under) These people bring a stench to the entire role of the prophetic ministry.


they themselves do not love the truth, and they are the ones who have heaped that pastor/preacher unto themselves to tickle their own itching ears. They do not endure sound doctrine; they rather speak against it! They laugh and mock the true Gospel.

I see two kinds of “ear-tickling” going on. One group of people like the warm fuzzies. Their opponents like the hell/fire sock-it-to-them words. Neither wish to really HEAR what God has to say to their own hearts. They are all spiritually blind, and all mock the Gospel.

Revival will not and cannot happen within the apostate church system.

We can’t have our cake and eat it too. Each person who wishes to see a move of God must put idolatrous longings to death. And that, I believe, is a process that comes about through physical judgment you speak of:
Physical judgment would indeed be an act of mercy.

This is the flip side of the coin, and must ALWAYS accompany the prophetic warnings of disaster. Mercy triumphs over judgment! That is our only hope. Dare we abandon that? God forbid!

Stop wasting your time trying to convince those who God has sent strong delusion to and go to those who will listen!

This is a word to the evangelical community. It has been taking matters into its own hand and not waiting on the Spirit to wake up the spiritually slumbering. And that has been disastrous!!! It has created its own apostate church in its zeal to wake up the dead.

Only the Prince can wake Sleeping Beauty - with a kiss. Is that not what Christ promised to do - the Good News of the New Covenent!!

But who are we to write anybody off before the final judgment.

Diane


C
crsschk

Quite a bit to respond to, for the time being just a couple of things;

[i]Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said,[b]Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye [u]root up also[/u] the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest[/b]: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.[/i] Mat 13:24-30

My understanding is that to be honest we are often doing a lot of things that we ought not to be doing. Making preemptive decisions, "whose 'in' and whose 'out'". There is a very good reason for this warning, the most obvious being that we do not know and will not know, we are left with speculation at best, damage at worse. How many other things similarly are we guilty of? Do we know the return path of the backslider? The first steps of the contemplating atheist or agnostic? Can the 'apostate' be, challenged? "Pricked in the heart"? Even the 'system' that most of us deride and are broken over ... Past redemption? Alteration, reformation? I am sorry but what tends to get overlooked here is how much these fallible minds actually are trumping God's ability to do as He well sees fit to do, in His own way and timing, surely this has not completely escaped us?

To hear blanket statements of "cannot", "will not" is to play God Himself and indeed that, I find at once outlandish and fearful for the speaker as well as the hearers. This is the sort of 'thinking through' I meant, my opinion on the matter the last consideration. I could but reinforce something here adamantly; Whatever anyone does here, please look past me, over me, beyond and under and [i]through[/i]. Hold me accountable as you are also doing here, I desire it more than you can know. Look to the Lord, to His word, what did He say? Saints, I never leave here without the same sense of trepidation; "Oh Lord, I pray I have spoken ...[i]rightly[/i]". In other words, [i]well[/i] of the Lord. Hard for me to express this correctly... Honesty is just bearing down to the marrow of being and with that brings a lot of self suspicion and questioning. This is not a 'faith' or doubting matter, but the whole of 'perhaps', held in abeyance ... The [i]whole[/i] of scripture, "every Word that proceedth" keeps coming in at different angles and perspectives .... The great line somewhat taken out of context is in the Lord speaking to Satan regarding Job;

[i]Have you considered .... (My servant ...)?[/i]

There is much to be considered.

God is not willing that folk perish and has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. Read Psalm 106 and see the heart of God. When the people cried out He heard their cry- even when they deserve judgment.

This is the "out" I was speaking of, there is always an out, always a way back. Surely it will not always be so ...

[i]For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.[/i]

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sermonindex

My understanding is that to be honest we are often doing a lot of things that we ought not to be doing. Making preemptive decisions, "whose 'in' and whose 'out'".

Exactly!

There will come a day when God WILL judge the living and the dead, but it is not this day. We live in the age of mercy folks!

To be completely honest, I am not impressed with anyone who can point out the "problems" within the church. Anyone can see the problems if the look long enough. The problems in the "church" are the same problems outside of the "church"; the rebellious hearts of men. That includes me and that includes you!

And all you have to do is study a little church history to see that every generation has had individuals who have decried the so called “institutional church” How do we think Pentecostalism got started? Have you ever heard of the Amish?

Folks, let’s stop trying to find heaven on Earth. Though I do agree we should avoid false brethren and false teachings, I do not see the profitability in condemning the entire “church”. Again, anyone can point out the problems!

I am impressed with those who can present the solution.

Those who can so easily point out the problems, can you also lead people to the solutions?

What will you do with a repentant individual? Will you give them a list of do’s and don’ts?

Are you able to lead them to Christ and not to the law?

Those of you who cry “Harden not your hearts!” Are you walking in the rest of God? Have you ceased from your own works?

Do you trust in your prayer life?
Do you trust in your bible reading time?
Do you trust in your passion for souls?
Do you trust in your zeal for God?
Do you trust in your own holiness?
Do you trust in your surrendered life?

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RobertW

crsschk's: But he said,Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. [u]Let both grow together until the harvest:[/u] and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. Mat 13:24-30

This is a very sobering reminder. Thanks for sharing this passage Mike!


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RandyWatchin

May NONE of you rebuke this Brother.... His Heart is True and His love of you who are lost in "church Insanity" is apparent so don"t Tell him he is Not! His Heart is Filled w/The love of God for a Dead "church" that is setting itself up to be deceived even further than it already is!
Come out of HER my People before its too Late!
She is a Daughter of The Mother of Harlots and calls herself "church" and there is no Truth in Her! She eats The Sheep and they love to have it so as they are bleed both financially and Spiritually all the day long! You may Ignore this Brothers Warnings and you may Ignore The Word of God but you will NOT Ignore the King of Kings in short time from NOW!
Repent you Stiff Necked and uncircumcised in Heart ... You do AlWays resist the Holy Ghost as your fathers before you ! As they murdered the prophets so do you this Brother who brings you TRUTH without compromise. You who have come to LOVE your Way more than Truth with your "Criticism"! God Sees our Hearts and Sees through what we say we "believe"/lip service" to our Hearts and JUDGES the Thoughts and INTENTS thereof. Be careful whom you rebuke lest ye be found to Fight against The Holy Ghost!

randy-watching

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crsschk

May NONE of you rebuke this Brother.... His Heart is True and His love of you who are lost in "church Insanity" is apparent so don"t Tell him he is Not! His Heart is Filled w/The love of God for a Dead "church" that is setting itself up to be deceived even further than it already is!

Randy, you have been here a total of 5 days now. There is absolutely no way you could possibly have begun to mine the resources nor begin to know the hearts of those that fellowship here. Before you start 'rebuking' here it would be wise to hold your peace, get familar with your surroundings if wish to contribute. Please read up a bit on the site;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=14144&forum=13&0]MUST READ: SermonIndex Forum Disclaimer / Community Rules[/url]


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c52

Mike Balog spoke of the "apparent mis-fortune in God, to have a prophectic ministry." I don't understand this reasoning, can it be made more clear? Can anyone find instances in the lives of the prophets (in scripture) where the prophet was joyful, thankful, and willing to submit totally to the will of God without intervention from God moving on the personality of the prophet? Why would these men and women in scripture not choose (if they had a choice) this work whereas so-called prophets in our day can not wait to place the mantle upon themselves?

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sermonindex

Hi Mike

So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
I agree that it is commonly held today in the churches, that we cannot know who knows the Lord and who does not.

On SI, this may be because we don't hear each other's voices, although my experience of writing under the influence of the Spirit to some people, is that the Lord had no difficulty in communicating with them through the written word, as indeed has happened this weekend on SI, through Neil's post in Carnal Christians (which is yet to be told in full).

However, in the parable, in keeping with Jesus' statement that we would know His own by their fruit, the servants could tell which were the wheat and which were the tares.

Are we, perhaps, labouring under a false premise, that it is impossible to discern the Lord's Body?

The answer to this question (which from me, is rhetorical, although of course a deceiver sets out to be deceived, and I've been deceived in the past), surely is in scripture. Fruit is not just souls saved, it is the fruit of the Spirit, the love, joy, peace, longsuffering, goodness, gentleness, faith, meekness, and temperance, against which is no law.


You know, I've been thinking about the mocking laughter which Josef described in his dream. It reminds me of the mockery which came from the leader of the church to which I refer as a cult, whose leader came from a witchcraft family. This has led me to remember Samuel's statement in 1 Sam 15:23, that 'rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft', and I've been meditating on what might be the connection with this and the sin of the flesh listed by Paul in Galatians 5 as 'sorcery'.

This all fits into the Carnal Christians thread, too, but it is yet another example of the Holy Spirit pointing up something God wants us to grasp, if we ourselves are not to be castaway - as Paul so wisely admonished himself, for our edification.

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RobertW

Be careful whom you rebuke lest ye be found to Fight against The Holy Ghost!

Yes and it is best to examine our ownselves before we assume someone else has miss-stepped. We can't all just drop our discernment for fear of fighting against God. He has called us to discern and be good Bereans. That is where the Nobility exists- not in allowing things to come in uncontested and undiscerned.

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crsschk

There is also the matter of the witness of the Holy Spirit. Josef is far from the first to come to SI to post having had a deeply disturbing dream [b]in which he KNOWS[/b] it was God speaking to him. Don't you think that EVERYone (that is, every true believer, who really DOES know the Lord), who has this sort of dream or vision goes through just a tiny bit of bringing it to the Lord and settling their own heart and mind before they launch it out on to the world stage? Don't you think they are concerned for the credibility of God Himself, and their own eternity, should they be misleading THE CHURCH?

Hi Linn,

But how do [i]you[/i] know this? Is this not presumption? What is our measure for testing? Have been giving this even more thought ... I too have had powerful dreams before, one that shook me to my very core before I even came into the Light. It is as vivid as if it was yesterday and probably has been some 15 years now. Daylight to midnight in less than a minute, like watching one of those speed-ed up weather reels ... It was the end of the world ... I was on me knees without a thought. A lot of detail missing but it stayed with me for a very, very long time, the first shaking's of the somewhat dormant and deceived conscience in it's rebellious state at the time.

But was it a particular prophecy? If it had happened last week would I (should I?) then turn it back out to all of us here and say ... This is it, it's all over ... ? A pretty extreme example...

We are going to end up falling right back on to the same thing that we have yet to get defined (though I think Ron (Philologos) has brought to our understanding the nature of prophetic things in this day we live in ... Maybe it is just whether we accept that or not.

We know the scriptures that can be used here about the outpouring of the Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit and all else that is to be spoken about this, a great deal and that is not in dispute. Have to pause this thought for a moment...

This is not to say that all your challenges here on SI are wasted, or should not be made, but, we, here, [b]need to have confidence in what God is saying to us[/b], and to grow in trust of each other in God, and in the unity of the Spirit.

Indeed! We can certainly agree here. Confidence! Yes, you see that is the issue but what concerns me is the tendency to be democratic rather than scriptural. I do not believe we are under a mandate of [i]innocent until proven guilty[/i] and that seems to be the way these things are too often treated. The flip-side being "guilty" by association or suspicion. Suspicion yes, in this day ...? How many are they? The prophetic utterances? Thousands? Millions? Any one and everyone that Names the Name is ... Trustworthy? Authentic? Accepted as what he or she says just because it [i]sounds[/i] correct or similar? This is a terrible way of using even a natural discernment, to capitulate to the spiritual ... It is just that it is often unchecked against the only [i][b]true[/b][/i] thing we have, God's Word. Isn't this how we will ultimately build our confidence, [i]proving all things[/i]?

Not necessarily 'guilty', no, no, that is not the motivation. Purity? Isn't this the results of testing? We are not talking anything about sincerity or possibilities nor accusations, nor even the witness of the Spirit, just the first instances of where we should be taking everything.

This is unfortunately just a quick perusing here, hardly touching the surface of it all nor is it all something dismissive. [i]Prayer[/i] ... our brother is certainly correct about this.

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sermonindex

All of you are straining at knats and swallowing camels...

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IRONMAN

bro c52

what about this from Joel 2?

[b]28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. 30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.[/b]

:-?

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sermonindex

Greetings all,

There are way too many responses for me to personally respond to right now. But I just want to make some clarifications.

First of all, as I said at the beginning, I do not expect anyone to just "accept" this word without questioning it with clear scripture and the witness of the Spirit. The Word commands us to: "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" (1 Thes 5:21)- I expect all to test this word and prove this word and hold fast to it if it's truly good, and I believe it is. And right before that, scripture says, "Despise not prophesyings" (1 Thes 5:20).

"And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man" - Did the people repent in Noah's day when he preached? Are we living in the last days? If we're living in the last days, which the Apostles clearly said would be apostate, then we are living in times of hard-heartedness just like in Noah's day. Much scripture clearly backs this up.

Lastly, I do not claim to be a prophet. But I do believe this message is prophetic. Take it as you will, but I believe it is undeniably obvious in light of the times we're living in and the clear witness of Scripture.

Here are a few replies I received that I think I'd like to share with you all:

Hi bro., What you've dreamed I've seen. I have preached to congregations where a holy hush and dead quiet happens as God searches the hearts of those present. I don't get asked back to thoughs fellowships. I don't preach condemnation either, simple holiness, obedience and faith, all done in love and humility. I'm convinced that the church wants entertainment, I have had a difficult time getting meetings and have had to take work outside of the churches, I've come to the conclusion that the organized churches don't want revival.

your article "dream of apostasy" brought tears to my eyes; for my family and I continue to search for a church to call home we seem to find one then the Lord pushes us on. For its hard not to see the "complacancy and apathy" which abides there. Or the extreme wealth which is there God. This article has driven me this night by the Holy Spirit to grab my wife by the hand and go to our knees in prayer and cry out to the Lord for time waxes short we are in the great "falling away". I stand with you in Christ brother preach on and pray that the Lord gives me the boldness to stand in opposition to the church of today and speak with conviction. I as you grew up as well a pentecostal in the Lord and the church has went apostate!!

Yes you spoke the Words of the Lord Jesus right. For He has spoken them to me also. He has also spoken and told me that there were two revivials that were going on and that if His people were not keeping there eyes on Him they too would be drawn into what the conterfit was doing. For they love to hear a good word, even if it is not of the Lord. He has said that where darkness is grace will that much more abound. I asked Him why? And He gave me a very simple answer.
When there is even one light on in a room, and all else is dark. That light will show up from very far off. That in this time of great darkness He will be the calling card. He will be the becan to the lost. When just you stand a lone with the light of Jesus, He will be the one as you speek to show them His light.

Josef, at first the Lord told me about two years ago now that He was takeing the Church from the church. Now He is saying two different revivials are here. One that calls to the true Chruch and one that makes the soul happy with lieing words and big talks about how much He loves you, even with no truth. The Lords Words to me have never been many but what He says is strong.

See if what is spoken comes to pass. The Lord has spead up time and what once took many years is only takeing a few. If He did not do this not one person would be able to stand.

I hope the original message doesn't harden people, or cause them to give up. It's meant to be a clear trumpet call to DESPERATION - to seek God in fasting and praying NOW while there is still time! It's a hard word, yes, but it's a message of HOPE that there's still time if we get desperate to see the Lord move in power and seek His face until he revives us.

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sermonindex

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall decieve the very elect... But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (MATT 24:24-36)

I've corresponded with this Urban fellow, and he sent me an article by Andrew Strom. In the article, Strom speaks about his revision of the Salvation Army and that instead of camoflauge he had ordered SWAT uniforms for his "soldiers". Strom also boasted about being a musician and writing and producing his own street ministry videos.

If adopting the ways of Egypt, Babylon, the Persians, and others cursed Israel and led to her desolation - what is the end of Strom's "street ministry" that adopts SWAT uniforms and a "militant" attitude? Can one adopt the methods of violence in service of the Prince of Peace? Can we take the "visions" of such people seriously?

I have no beef against Urban, but I find the methods of the people he "runs with" questionable.

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sermonindex

Nevermind the fact that Urban just quoted all the people that agreed with him in a cocky "I told you so" sort of way.

Josef, where's your humility?

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sermonindex

Interesting, Corey, because in your original email to me, you started by saying:

[i]"Blessings be with you, Brother Josef.

I read your article on SermonIndex.net (SI) and wholeheartedly agree with your argument and conclusions as to what needs to be done."[/i]

So much for quoting the people who agree with me right, seeing that just a day ago YOU were one of them??? And not only did you clearly say you agree, but that you [b]wholehearedly[/b] agree!

Regarding Andrew Strom, you are attacking a servant of God while being totally ignorant of what he was talking about. I suggest you visit his site: www.revivalschool.com and actually examine his teachings and what he stands for before you attack him.

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Spitfire

This thread and the turn it has taken is the very thing that is causing me such despair. I honestly don't know what to do with myself. I'm having a really hard time coming to this site or going to church or anything. I just want to die.

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Christisking

This thread and the turn it has taken is the very thing that is causing me such despair. I honestly don't know what to do with myself. I'm having a really hard time coming to this site or going to church or anything. I just want to die.

I agree - it terrible to see people attack and pick apart a clear word from the Lord that stands up to Scripture. This is a timely prophetic warning and clear call for repentance.

What would we do with a Finney, Whitefield or Wesley or even a Ravenhill if they were to visit this forum today??? The sad thing is that most would pick apart, come against and hate the hard words of warning, correction and repentance they speak. This is sad - truly sad!

How quick would the thread get locked if George Fox was to start posting???

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Christisking

The featured quote fits perfect. As is always the case, "be careful what you ask for - you just might get it" and how often we hate it when we get it.


Sermonindex featured quote - [b]"We desperately need seers who can see through the mist, Christian leaders with with prophetic vision. Unless they come soon it will be too late for this generation."[/b]

-A.W. Tozer (1897-1963)

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c52

Who is the prophet speaking to here? He is comforting Zion, His chosen people, Israel. As in Acts 2:14-21, the audience of Peter was Jewish. There will be a future fulfillment of this prophecy. How do we know that?, because the great and terrible day of the Lord has not occured. Most commentators believe that this will occur at the end of the Church age, or, if you will, this age of grace which we now inhabit. As always, I claim no special revelation in this matter.

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c52

Dispair is good for you, hang in there...

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IRONMAN

bro C52
thanks for your reply bro. does this mean if a gentile dreams dreams or sees vision then it is not of God? :-? is the Spirit of God not poured out on gentiles in the same manner as it is to the Jew? :-?

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sermonindex

Interesting, Corey, because in your original email to me, you started by saying:

"Blessings be with you, Brother Josef.

I read your article on SermonIndex.net (SI) and wholeheartedly agree with your argument and conclusions as to what needs to be done."

So much for quoting the people who agree with me right, seeing that just a day ago YOU were one of them??? And not only did you clearly say you agree, but that you wholehearedly agree!

Regarding Andrew Strom, you are attacking a servant of God while being totally ignorant of what he was talking about. I suggest you visit his site: www.revivalschool.com and actually examine his teachings and what he stands for before you attack him.

Josef, I have visited Strom's website and have visited at least three messageboards where Christians have likened his movement to a cult. People say when they question his words or motives, their threads are deleted from his messageboard. I found the article you sent me arrogant, and arrogance is the opposite of humility, so I researched him.

I agreed with your article, Josef, because I know the church as an institution is in trouble. I contacted you, brother to brother, to see what a faithful and outspoken Brother like yourself is doing for God - because there are many false prophets floating around and Jesus told us to "know them by their works". Paul said "prove all things, hold fast that which is good" (Thess 5:21).

When you sent me the article of Strom's I became somewhat agitated...

As to the rest of you folks reading and participating in this discussion, I suggest you read the following verses from the Bible on arguing and contention.

As for me, I'm done with this discussion and I repent of being a part of it - as my contentious attitude and participation in it has become wholly unchristian. I apologise to everyone, including Urban and Strom, if I've offended.

"The beginning of strife is as when one letteth out water: therefore leave off contention, before it be meddled with." (Proverbs 17:14)

"Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth. As coals are to burning coals, and wood to fire; so is a contentious man to kindle strife." (Proverbs 26:20)

"He that is of a proud heart stirreth up strife: but he that putteth his trust in the LORD shall be made fat." (Proverbs 28:25)

"For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?" (1 Corinthians 3:3)

"For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults..." (2 Corinthians 12:20)

"Do all things without murmurings and disputings, That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain." (Philippians 2:14)

"But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will." (2 Timothy 2:23)

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Spitfire

I Am A Prophet. I Am A Prophet. I Am A Prophet. There. How do you like them apples? Who started this whole thing that, "if you were a real prophet you wouldn't say you were a prophet?" I Am A Prophet. I hate being a prophet. I'd rather be dead than be a prophet. I say to myself, "I'll never speak again. What's the use?" But... it's like fire shut up in my bones.

So...lock me up. Call me crazy. Put me in a cage and point at me. Do whatever you want to do. I don't care. Stone me. That would be merciful.

So, you say, I'm one of those who like to have my ears tickled? That's the reason that I believed the word from Josef that started this whole thing. I [i]like[/i] [i][color=CC0033]hard[/color][/i] words. I'd like for what Josef said to be a word from God. That sounds good to me. Let's call it True. And...that makes me "one of the deceived." How sad. There's no hope for me. Somebody put me out of my misery, cause I think I'm a prophet.

How'd you like for a prophet to say, "Go to hell"? That's what Jonah said. How'd you like for me to strip my clothes off right here and lay down for about a year? That's what I feel like doing. Oh, but noooooooo. I like being a prophet. That's what it is. I want all the attention focused on me. This is fun. Hey everybody, look at me, I'm a prophet. That makes me more important than you.

There I said it. Now you know just how crazy I am and you shouldn't listen to a word I have to say. I'm just a crazy mixed up girl who thinks she hears voices. I don't know why you ever let me on this website. Why don't you just go ahead and delete my profile? Then talk about how sad it is when people think they are prophetic when all they really are is pathetic.

Yeah, I'm mad as hell, so I'm sure I'm not a "Christian". I'm absolutely certain you should all just be clucking your tongues.There you go.

If I'm not a prophet, then what am I? I'll tell you what, I should be locked up. Then I wouldn't have to work and I could foam at the mouth and write with my own blood on the wall, Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me.

I think I've finally arrived. I'm officially someone that just thinks their a prophet, when all I really am is off my rocker.
Oh.........what's the use? Why do we keep torturing ourselves?

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ProveAllThin

This is my first post. I have been an observer for quite sometime but this evening I felt a push. I do not mean to intrude on this topic, only to edify.


Spitfire:
Spitfire my heart aches for you, I can relate with your last post as I have thought, in my own heart, many of the things which you have written. May you find comfort and rest in the Lord. His grace be with you.

Josef:
At first read I didn't like your word, it made me angry, but most importantly it drove me to the word. Right now I am not sure what I think of the word you gave, but I rejoice in that it drove me to the word and I was convicted of areas of unbelief in my heart, which is the worst sin of them all, and now I am seeking repentance that I may Love His appearing, not being ashamed. I thank Him for His unfailing Love for His children.

2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness"


Looking to Him,
-Trevor

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roadsign

Dian, I see a real spark of life in you.

Nothing is new. Many still regard Jeremiah, Elijah, and other prophets as suffering from insanity. That is because people typically judge sanity (the norm) according to false standards: pretence.

I once heard a therapist say: "When you think you are going insane, you are really becoming sane." Insanity resides, not necessarily in what looks insane, but in what looks very sane. A good example would be the Jewish religious leaders in Jesus’ day. They had their form (sanity) in perfect shape, all the i's dotted and t's crossed. And they thought they were the sanest of the bunch. Jesus essentially told them that they were out of their mind when he called them hypocrites. Sadly they were unwilling to become insane (weakened, broken) so that they could have true sanity (be strong in Christ).

When God strips us of our pretence, we indeed feel and look crazy. We no longer have anything to hide behind. That always invites the sneers of our righteous, all-put-together peers: “Look at her, she’s a real looser!”

As long as we can focus on the other person’s perceived faults, and regard him as insane, pathetic, or off-the-wall we never have to look at ourselves, and we never have to take any of his/her words seriously. That is just another cop out – a way to keep our sins in the dark. It is a way to preserve our self-righteous pretence.


The bottom line is this: Under tribulations all those whose sanity was merely pretence will unravel, but those who have been building inner strength by submitting to God through personal trials and weakness will flourish.

On this thread we have read a prophesy of judgment on the apostate church. We can trust that the message contains a word from the Lord, or we can reject it. No one is forcing anybody either way. It may indeed be a word for someone else, not us. However, if something in it is God’s word for us personally, we mustn’t ignore it. Therefore we need to exercise careful discernment - which involves seeking God rather than merely offering opinions that arise from our own flesh.

If we have been in the habit of ignoring the voice of God through the words of broken jars because we prefer looking at the faults, we may very well some day find ourselves completely unable to discern God’s voice. God will eventually stop talking to us altogether. (Spiritual judgment). How far dare we test God?

The bottom line is this: What is God saying to each of us personally? “Today, IF you hear God’s voice… do not harden your hearts ….”

most importantly it drove me to the word

Welcome, Trevor, Of course, this is just where God wishes to drive us. I must admit, some of God's most effective instruments in my life have been those who ticked me off - even causing me to lose sleep.

At times even false or abrasive words can do more to stir us towards God than words that we can easily accept..... An anger response is not always bad.

May God put some fire under us!

Diane

S
sermonindex

I was in Ephesians this morning and I read this precious bit of verse which I sent to you in my spirit:

(and its from the NIV, I beg indulgence from my brothers and sisters)

"There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were baptised--
one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all."

Ephesians 4:4-6

and at the top of the page I wrote the words that Paul used on that page in other sections:

"humble, gentle, patient" and on the other page:
"thanksgving, kind, compassionate, live a life of love".

Be encouraged, walk into the Gifting's that you have been given by the Lord. Worry not what any man or woman tells you. When the great Chinese revivalist John Sung got lit aflame by the Holy Ghost, the seminarians at the Bible college he was attending had him locked away in an insane asylum for 193 days, so John read thru the Bible 40 times and it was there that he said he recieved his true seminarian training, he was released, went back to China and God used him in a MIGHTY way.

Look what that godless roman screamed at Paul in Acts, "You're great learning is making you insane!" (I parapharse)....and I wonder where they both are now.

From some reason, that Stevie Wonder song, "Don't you worry about thing" has come into my head.

Much love in Jesus, neil

C
crsschk

Right off the get go here...

Please, save your private correspondence for privacy. Emails and PM's being pulled out and dropped in here is very poor conduct.

This thread and the turn it has taken is the very thing that is causing me such despair. I honestly don't know what to do with myself. I'm having a really hard time coming to this site or going to church or anything. I just want to die.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I agree - it terrible to see people attack and pick apart a clear word from the Lord that stands up to Scripture. This is a timely prophetic warning and clear call for repentance.

May the Lord forgive me for retching this out of it's context if I have ...

Jam 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

To raise questions is to assume far too much, shall we then begin to put up for challenge one hearts grievance against another? Your's against mine, mine against your's? Or is it all to be just untested agreement, personal effrontery, insinuations and ... [i]are ye not partial[/i]?
So much presumption ...

Raised the question about the finality of the words chosen and challenged it. Why? To cause a great disturbance and all these qualifying explanations of [i]that is not to say ...[/i]? Must it need be? Is this the level that we have succumbed to? To jump the rails of inference and suspicion of motive, turn to accusation ... [i]and are become judges of evil thoughts?[/i]

Challenge the fool! My opinion, who cares? Think I don't feel much of the same sentiment; "[i]Why bother[/i]"? Let 'em run ... [i]They mean well[/i]. Is this our standard for integrity and honesty, pragmatism? Is [i]that[/i] an accusation or another question? Shoot, I mean well most all the time, yet my own folly exposes itself time and time again. Would say most of whatever .... spilled out expression in the last week or so ought to come with a warning itself. Not very prayerful, quite a bit of knee-jerk, top of the head, borrowed ... 'experience', gleanings from whatever bit's and pieces loosely stitched together ... Lot of regret, a lot of exposure. One of the beauties of doing what we do here, typing on a mirror that reflects back on us ... If we will look into ... again. See the planks, see the folly, see the natural man usurping ...
Wretch! Hypocrite! Liar! Pride and humility and dishonesty and all these things still brewing and in need of repentance... This honesty business ...
Who dares?

Still the question stands. Is the Lord finished with His people?

Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Jer 3:9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
Jer 3:10 And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.
Jer 3:11 And the LORD said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.
Jer 3:12 Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.
Jer 3:13 Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.
Jer 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
Jer 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

C
CJaKfOrEsT


Spitfire wrote:
I Am A Prophet. I Am A Prophet. I Am A Prophet. There. How do you like them apples? Who started this whole thing that, "if you were a real prophet you wouldn't say you were a prophet?" I Am A Prophet. I hate being a prophet. I'd rather be dead than be a prophet. I say to myself, "I'll never speak again. What's the use?" But... it's like fire shut up in my bones.

Well....welcome to the outside of the closet. Myself, I still find myself wrestling with the coat hangers, not sure what I am...but still to afraid to call myself a prophet. How about "general nuisance"? Has a nice ring to it, don't you think?;-)

R
RobertW

Jer 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
Jer 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

I think this passage is key and its what I have been musing over in my own devotions. We have to stay the course and not get too rattled by the goings on of our times that we stop focusing on what needs to be done. With a sword in one hand and a trowel in the other perhaps we need to stay to the work and shine the light of truth in our times.

Dreams and things are motivators at times but I have seen folk that God gave some terrible dreams to just walk away from it as if it were a lite thing. I have no confidence in these things though I know they have their place. We must prayerfully return to the word of God for a word to our generation that will save their immortal souls. Our churches must have shepherds that mine the word of God for a word in due season as the Spirit gives the understanding. Nothing else has the power to speak to our times that is not bible based. It is God's word that He watches over... it is His word that He will bring to pass.

I have had many dreams I believe were from the Lord (I speak as a fool), but each of them had their place and God was doing a work. If I knew they were from God I took them seriously and got busy about cleaning up my own life first. The urgency has to begin with me. Total repentance and forsaking of wickedness and evil. God would go through my life with a comb as it were and pull out hindrances to what He wanted to do. We are conduits of what God wants to say and do in the earth. God is looking for men and women to stand in the gap and make up the hedge. It's our choice. And as John Baptists disciples asked Jesus- so the question RINGS in my mind over and over... are YOU the one or do we look for another? Are YOU the one that will allow the Holy Spirit to reach this generation through your hands and mouth? Are YOU the one totally sold out to God and dead to Sin? Are YOU the one or do we look for another?

R
roadsign

This past Sunday my minister opened the message with this illustration. I think it applies.

"In the book "Holy Sweat," Tim Hansel tells of a guest preacher in a rather large church. This minister began, "There are three points to my sermon." Most people yawned at that point. They'd heard that many times before.

But he went on. "My first point is this. At this time there are approximately two billion people starving to death in the world." The reaction through the congregation was about the same, since they'd heard that sort of statement many times before, too.

And then he said, "My second point . . . " Everybody sat up. Only 10 or 15 seconds had passed, and he was already on his second point! He paused, then said, "My second point is that most of you don't give a damn!"

He paused again as gasps and rumblings flowed across the congregation, and then he said: "And my third point is that the real tragedy among Christians today is that many of you are now more concerned that I said 'damn' than you are that I said two billion people are starving to death." Then he sat down.

The whole sermon took less than a minute."

I wonder, of all the posts I’ve submitted, is this one that will be most remembered? I hope not. But the illustration contains a point worth considering. What bothers us reveals something about our hearts?

I admit, it distresses me that so many use their brain energy to disect ”damn” details, or something they know little about. Or they get obsessed about fringe flaws. Let them go by. They do far less damage than our own negligence of the more important matters. Millions are dying. The environment is about to swallow us alive. Humans are destroying each others. Millions are headed into a Christless eternity. The apostate church builds up momentum because hardened hearts refuse to listen to God. Our neighbor's kids are gettin beat up. Sexual abuse is destroying countless. Don’t you see that the house is on fire?? The question is: WHAT IS GOD SAYING TO YOU AND ME?


We are called to be a unified Body under Christ so that we can be salt and light in the midst of all this! How can we be unified when we are ripping at each other. Ohhhhh, we are missing all kinds of opportunities to bless this world!!

There is plenty of Biblical guidance regarding our responsibilities during these apostate days, and if we keep our eyes there and let the Spirit transform us (Rom 12:1,2) we will be able to survive the spiritual apostasy of our day. And we’ll have something to offer our world. Otherwise we’ll get sucked in, even while we are convinced we are immune from it.

One reason God raises up those to speak his voice prophetically and intercede is because people are NOT reading their Bibles and seeking God. Can we trust God to run his program in his own timing, while we mind our own responsibilities?

Diane

I
IRONMAN

bro Patrick


Christisking wrote:
The featured quote fits perfect. As is always the case, "be careful what you ask for - you just might get it" and how often we hate it when we get it.


Sermonindex featured quote - [b]"We desperately need seers who can see through the mist, Christian leaders with with prophetic vision. Unless they come soon it will be too late for this generation."[/b]

-A.W. Tozer (1897-1963)

OUCH!!!

sometimes i wonder if we are so different from Israel in our state before God...can we see the prophets of God where Israel failed? maybe we can, or maybe we can't? perhaps we're bound by the same iniquity rendering us blind as they were. oh well, God knows andmay He straighten us out in His time.AMEN.

S
sermonindex


Hi MikeB,

This is a response to some of your questions to me and your thoughts, in the post on p4.

I think I'm beginning to see where you are coming from.... although I could be missing something, or crossing some wires.....

It seems to me that you are looking for the same kind of objective testing one can give the written word, by the consistency which is demonstrated there on the surface of the page, in matters which are purely of the Spirit and His witness, by which we must now live and walk in newness of life.

And I think.... this cannot be done. These two, while they both testify to to life in Christ Jesus, do not necessarily testfy to each other directly in an objective way.

This is why the writings of John are so very helpful in scripture, because he (in my opinion) ties these two together most securely, in his testimony of the life, words and actions of Jesus, and then, by his stunning first epistle.

So, to your opening questions:


Hi Linn,

But how do you know this? Is this not presumption? What is our measure for testing?

I want to start with this last question, because it touches on the point you make about the dream you had. I too have had very vivid dreams, but, they were a response to fear rather than God. In the dreams I have had, in which God has spoken to me, I have been in no doubt of the meaning of what He has said, or that it was HE who was ministering to me. These were all dreams for me personally, not for the Church at large, in the way Josef has posted his dream, but [i][b]without doubt[/i][/b], His ministry through the dreams, has contributed to who I am now, in Him. And for me, [i]believing[/i] Him, [i]and [b]believing[/i][/b] that I was judging aright that it was [u]God[/u] speaking to me, has contributed greatly to my flexibility in His hands, and to my trusting my judgment of what is from the Spirit, and what is not, and of trusting the [i]checks[/i] I have had in my spirit, as much as the green lights. In all this, there is a necessity for obedience to the faith.

Now, in referring to your dream, you make no claim for it having contained a word from God to you, far less to the Church, and yet, you seem to know that God used it to communicate some truth to you - to wake you up to eternal reality.

You asked 'But was it a particular prophecy?'

I have no idea, without hearing the detail. I say that, because I seem to be able to interpret some dreams and visions, where others are completely blank. But I have never interpreted a tongue..... The prospect terrifies me.

So, when you ask 'Is this not presumption?' (for me to say that Josef KNOWS his dream came from God), in the meaning of the word 'presumption' (from dictionary.com)

3. belief on reasonable grounds or probable evidence.
4. something that is presumed; an assumption.
5. a ground or reason for presuming or believing.
6. Law. an inference required or permitted by law as to the existence of one fact from proof of the existence of other facts.
7. an assumption, often not fully established, that is taken for granted in some piece of reasoning.

it seems to me one has to make certain assumptions about the validity of a brother or a sister laying claim to having heard from God.

You are right, I do presume that Josef is not consciously setting out to deceive us. In this particular case, his references to the conviction he saw appearing, and then growing, particularly, struck me as something only a real preacher-by-calling (apart from the message he was preaching in the dream, which was not a message to tickle the ears of any congregation), could identify, and feel comfortable with.

Thirdly, that he was mocked, did not sound like a case of the house of beelzebub being divided against itself, but rather, a matter of the profane mocking the holy, as only true enemies of the cross of Christ could mock.

In other words, within its content, I tested the meaning of what Josef was saying, against scriptural truth, and, I accepted his word that he lines himself up on the side of scripture.

It would be very difficult for anyone to create a false message which was as consistent as the whole of Josef's report. I'm sure it could be done, but I was impressed at the coherency, also, of the post he made.

I have found, through careful listening, and the help of the Spirit to my memory, that when I was sitting under the false doctrine to which I alluded earlier in the thread, I [i]was[/i] aware of inconsistencies and contradictions, and these stuck in my memory, as much as any word the Lord spoke directly to me, by which I shaped my life thereafter.

I have no idea if you'll be satisfied with this explanation of 'how' I 'know this' (in answer to 'But how do you know this?'), because I am also going by my [i]hearing[/i] of the word of God from others, who have a similar message. I, too, have had impressed upon me in the last year, that [i]I was lost, but Jesus found me.[/i] I was one of those not on the city streets, but in the highways and byways, who was compelled to come in. This IS the message of the gospel which Jesus Himself spoke many times.

Having said that, my ministry is far less to them directly, than to the saints (at this time, I believe). However, I also minister to the lost with whom the Lord bonds me in His will. And, within the last two hours I said to a sister here on SI, that I believe there is no gift of the Spirit which is closed (to me), if I have the unction from God to use it at a certain time. But, I don't usually claim to 'have a gift'. I simply function in God in that moment.

Yes, you see that is the issue but what concerns me is the tendency to be democratic rather than scriptural.
Well, it may look like democracy to you, but when saints agree, I think it means they have all individually checked their thinking in the light of the witness of the Spirit, or scripture, or both. As I said above, sometimes the connection between this, is in the knowing of Jesus, rather than the written word. I realise I'm verging on risky territory by this statement but if you want to leave the knowing of Jesus out of the equation, then you have to take a big bundle of verses which refer to the working of the Spirit, and let that be enough.

So, is everyone who expresses an opinion in an SI thread, baptised in the Spirit? I doubt it. But, I don't see the point in speaking against those who may not be, when those who are have all the equipment they need for discerning the voice of God in the true ministry.... Do you see what I mean?

Do I see what you mean? Please tell me....

C
crsschk

Do I see what you mean? Please tell me....
At the expense of making this far worse ... No. Think we are both very adept at making a lot of gobbledygook of matters sometimes. Pouring in way too much ... [i]are you saying then ...?[/i].

We end up far from the ideal which is only the questionings at hand, right back to this same redundant principle of '[i]playing the ball, not the man'[/i]. Problem is, the way even the questions can be couched may be lending to the problem, that is regretful, perhaps the qualifiers are needed more than I know, though they seem weary at times. (I.E. "[i]That is not to say[/i]....". To make sure we are not attacking, not being mean spirited, on and on...)

[i]Emotions are very poor arbitrators, even worse facilitators of discernment.[/i]

Threw little quip out into my notes the other day for myself to just look at and ponder. Isn't this often the case? Isn't this where we can jump ship and start assuming all kinds of terrible things ... about each other? In some measure we can all be guilty at times of it I would think, surely even as much as I may be one to point it out ... well who would know better than the accuser? I despise it and yet ... Too fast. Too fast in our judgment, too fast in the considerations, too fast in glazing over the surface of so many things. Am curious at what we can tend to and that which we don't or at least in this setting the things that seem to fall off the map, things that are penetrating ... [i]Hard -heart[/i] questions. Not the 'hardness' per se, but the issues and manners of the heart. The examinations ... pride and bitterness and the whole long laundry list. Things not pertaining to [i]them[/i] but to [i]us[/i]. We expose ourselves here in great measure all the time and yet ... To draw attention to these matters, brings what? More accusation and assumption, suspicion ... [i]emotion[/i]. This may be far afield from the contents here but not entirely.

Questions. Again, I do regret the way they where put forth. They were the intention only. The dividing of the sheep. The church past it's 'expiration date'. To revisit this original post it is both that which bore out of a dream and then the interpreting thereof. It raised the questions in my mind and to my understanding and those where concerns that I felt necessary to address. That's all. If I had left it at that would have been better off. But dismissive of the whole? Certainly not, would have to chuck a great deal of this whole site to do that. We know these things. We do know the poor state of the situation ...

What can be somewhat difficult to tell though is if we are more broken of the situation or frankly guilty of;

Luk 9:53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
Luk 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

It doesn't seem too out of place to apply this if the idea is that [i]they did not receive him[/i] is what we would be accusing the apostate church of and hard to argue with that definition, the problem is the penchant for consumption with our pontificating.

We are playing God more than we let on to.

"Prophetic Warning"

The other difficulty is that this is incorporated into all of this. It is again tricky to disallow motivation and emotion from the equation to just look at this and ... well, test it. We either must be 'yea-sayers' or 'naysayers' so it goes. And perhaps it is just my particular bent to stop this madness of insinuation and head surgery that we just must have of the 'agreed and the disagreed'... In fact did it not already rear it's head not only from some of the response but even from the author? The qualifier; I mean no accusation to your motivation Joseph for your doing so. But again we see this come forth in bringing up those that are agreed as our support structure, this lends the 'authenticity' to it. But I am only asking, is that so? That a handful of saints agreement is the end of all question? That the question appealing back to scripture is necessarily ...[i]dogmatic, legalistic, ... ill-willed, ... partial?[/i]

This all seems overly explanatory. A bit too much.

The word 'prophetic' has become many things to many people. And I can only give the observations that I am aware of, my 'opinion' how thankful that is, something adjustable ... Recall a great statement from T. Austin Sparks about how we are often getting our spiritual and natural wires crossed to paraphrase it a bit. It happens and will continue to happen. Why we need to be truly [i]good Bereans[/i] is far more than the letter of the law and matters of interpretation, the witness of the Spirit and the particulars of personal circumstance ... What I can gather of the apostles and disciples is that the meanings derived from this tremendous word is both a bit of foretelling and that which is more ... explanatory? Not quite 'teaching' but more of development of those things already stated. The foretelling being much more rare in all the New Testament scriptures. The penchant in our day is to blur the Old Testament prophets with the descriptions and definitions given in the letters, primarily from Paul ... I do not have a full grip on all this in the least.

"Exactness"

This seems to be the requirement. In this day to bring it to that requirement is to cause all kinds of commotion and ... insinuation, sadly. The test of purity and authenticity at the least to what is written ... surely this ought to be more welcomed, no? This is what gives doubt sad to say about so much defending and explanation, what is there to defend but the man and his ...'respectibility' if the thing in question is really true? Very puzzling. If one is that convinced it wouldn't make a difference in the world if even an Angel came and began disputing ...

But let me just add that far be it from me to chuck the baby with the bathwater here. Let me add the redundant warning about all this. This day that we live in is full of the emotional saint, the untested and unthinking, the flippant as well as the heart felt. Certainly the very same things being addressed even here in our brothers dream are without question. We must be on our guard and recall the real true emphasis stated;

2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an [b]angel of light[/b].
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the [b]ministers of righteousness[/b]; whose end shall be according to their works.

Not to go too far with that. Am not applying this to the matter at hand, I am speaking 'out there', in generalities. Would expect this to only continue to get worse. It is not of necessity going to be the overt but the subtle and ... the sloppy. The sloppy saint that will not take everything back to a Berean mindset. Testing.

Being careful of much of the Christinease that is prevalent in our day. Of 'speaking into each other's lives'. Of the 'anointed' man or woman. Of all the unbiblical notions that are tossed about so casually.

Actually this dream is not really in question in all. The questions arose as the dream was explained and developed, as to it's meaning and even it's title;

"Dream of Apostasy - Prophetic Warning - Judgment is HERE!"

The questions came about from that aspect. The finality. The dividing etc. The only good reason for even addressing it is to sharpen and actually edify each other. Strange, the dismantling to attempt unity ...

To finish the unfinished thought... The prophetic, one giant nay-saying? This morning was just left speechless [i]again[/i] by a saint, some 3,000 miles away who I have very little correspondence with, the last some 10 months ago. Whatever might be said this has happened before and it is just ... frightening, wonderfully frightening how exacting this saint is. Right through me ... It is impossible to know the things expressed lest the Lord reveal it. I broke into deep sobs and tears and heavy breathing, heaving, could hardly finish reading the comments without falling on my face for my unbelief and sheer astonishment... Even this saints words were prefaced with "[i]I don’t know why I am compelled to write this right at this time![/i]" And all of it is really, if it was to be told just a 'minor thing', nothing grandiose, future forecasting ... Just the recognition of present state circumstances. [i]Exacting[/i]. I am so unworthy of such a even small visitation of something like this ... Our God is indeed wonderful and [i]fearful[/i].


H
hisremnant

Praise Jesus!! Lion of Judah!! and soon returning King!!!!!!!

1ki 22:7 And Jehoshaphat said, "Is there not still a prophet of the Lord here, that we may inquire of Him?"
1ki 22:8 So the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, "There is still one man, Micaiah the son of Imlah, by whom we may inquire of the Lord; but I hate him, because he does not prophesy good concerning me, but evil." And Jehoshaphat said, "Let not the king say such things!"

1ki 22:20 "And the Lord said, 'Who will persuade Ahab to go up, that he may fall at Ramoth Gilead?' So one spoke in this manner, and another spoke in that manner.
1ki 22:21 "Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, and said, 'I will persuade him.'
1ki 22:22 "The Lord said to him, 'In what way?' So he said, 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And the Lord said, 'You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.'

THE LINE IN THE SAND GROWS EVERMORE DISTINCT.

2th 2:10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2th 2:11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
2th 2:12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Hisservant rich

Matthew 4:17 Repent for the hour is late and the Kingdom of God is at hand

G
Goldminer

Whether we agree with every word of this or not there is much we can agee with. The condition of a huge portion of the church in the USA is exactly as he has described and we need to fast and pray to see that changed. We need to take our responsibilities seriously. We need to get off our ease and weep between the porch and altar over the ruined city and broken down walls.

I am convicted.

G
ginnyrose

Mike wrote:

Think we are both very adept at making a lot of gobbledygook of matters sometimes. Pouring in way too much ... are you saying then ...?.

Perhaps one could take lessons from the prophets of old, New Testamant included: Keep the words few and to the point. You can lose people quick in lengthy explanations where one is left wondering: now what do they mean? what are they saying?

My opinion...
ginnyrose

S
sermonindex

God willing, next Monday I will drive out to Patrick and Josef to pray with these dear brothers.

and why this burden? Coz of what the Lord spoke thru Josef.

S
sermonindex


Re Clarifications

Hi Mike,

I apologise in a measure that I must be as brief as a dare, not because ginnyrose suggests it is helpful, but sheer lack of time, and I do wish to respond to the meaning I made out of your comments.

Let me first say that your reading of my post is completely different from one other private comment I've had, and this has served to increase the contrast I perceive in your 'take' on biblical prophecy, which I have to admit I have noticed before, but now, wish to address - only in a measure.

Together with my comments below, I am going to post a thread in Scripture and Doctrine on Moses, Elijah as seen on the Mount of Transfiguration..... not for me to expound, but for discussion to start, to which I hope there will be a helpful response for us all and those reading.

As your post above proceeded, I gathered that you were not disputing Josef's dream. What bothered you was the title he gave the thread about it, and that he sought to add the interpretation the Lord gave him, (which is completely in keeping, with 1 Cor 14, and legitimate, in that there is no requirement for an interpretation to be given by another person. This can also apply to the interpretation of a tongue, which is sometimes given by the person who gave the tongue.) and then, having found how it lined up with scripture, he showed how this too confirmed what the Lord had said to him.

So, perhaps we are only talking about the terminology of the title of his thread, and not the actual message he gave, although, you are disputing the extremity of it, and the absoluteness of the terms he used.

Now, in respect of this skepticism on your part, I am concerned. Skepticism does have a scientific use with regard to the questioning of assumptions which can be proved false, for the elucidating of purer truth.

But, is this really what your skepticism is setting out to achieve, or, are you demonstrating a 20th century propensity to show something is neither right nor wrong, despite the fact that such a conclusion is anything but scriptural?


You also said

Being careful of much of the Christinease that is prevalent in our day. Of 'speaking into each other's lives'. Of the 'anointed' man or woman. Of all the unbiblical notions that are tossed about so casually.
I agree completely that there is need for caution when describing anyone as 'anointed', if there is the suggestion thereby, that they are [i]more[/i] anointed than anyone else who has received the Holy Spirit. After all, we ALL have an unction from the Holy One. (1 John 2:20)

However, when I read this

'Of 'speaking into each other's lives'......

and the paragraph completed with

'Of all the unbiblical notions that are tossed about so casually.'

I had the impression you were saying these are [u]both[/u] (the 'anointed' man/woman, and, 'speaking into each other's lives') [b]unbiblical notions[/b].

I won't go to the trouble of pulling together scripture, unless you can confirm this [i][b]is[/i][/b] what you were saying.... that you believe this both to be 'unbiblical' notions.

Thanks.


Lastly, you referred to the New Testament as being short on prophecy when you said

[b]The foretelling being much more rare in all the New Testament scriptures.[/b] The penchant in our day is to blur the Old Testament prophets with the descriptions and definitions given in the letters, primarily from Paul ... I do not have a full grip on all this in the least.
Leaving aside the Old Testament prophets who are quoted in the New Testament, how can you justify this statement about New Testament foretelling? I can immeditately think of loads of prophecy from Jesus, Peter and Paul, and some allusions to prophecy by Luke.

This is not to include the many references to Old Testament scriptures in the New Testament, which are not actually quoted in the New Testament, but rounded up into a non-specific bundle, several times.


Also, having previously acknowledged false doctrine in our pasts, I am coming to think, from what you write, that you have an idea of prophecy under the New Covenant, as if it should read, or be heard, in the same way as it did under the Old. If you do, then this I would dispute, and suggest this may be the real root of your trouble with brethren and sisters to [i]do[/i] have a prophetic gift, whether they call themselves 'prophets' or not.

Please, I am not trying to put words into your mouth. I think you have written enough about this in the last year, (and I have not read it all), for me to be able to say, this is the impression I have got. If I am wrong, please answer the specific points I've raised, explaining your stance more clearly.

Again, thanks. :-)

S
sermonindex

God willing, next Monday I will drive out to Patrick and Josef to pray with these dear brothers.

and why this burden? Coz of what the Lord spoke thru Josef.

Hi bartle,

You're not the only person with this burden.

I'll be praying for your journey and sweet fellowship in Jesus.

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