Sorry Rahman Reuben but my spirit which coexists with the Holy Spirit is telling me that you have written a bunch of blasphemy! Jesus even said himself that false prophets like you would arise that TRY TO ADD AND DEDUCT FROM HIS WORD(Bible). You're trying to tell me that some secret books of Enoch were given to you and that God hid those books, give me a break. I have one word for you. REPENT!
I have a copy of the Anglican deuteronical book, The Apocrypha - which is included between the Old and New Testaments of the Catholic and Anglican Bibles. The reason they aren't included is because some of the early church fathers doubted they were "inspired"... but they included them in the Catholic Bibles because of their value as "Wisdom Literature". I've read the deuteronical books a few times - but they won't save my soul.
The "Book of Enoch" is not this kind of apocrypha.
The apocryphal "Book of Enoch" floating around the internet and bookstores today is a "gnostic" work. "Gnosis" means "knowledge" and the gnostics were a sort of mystery school that claimed true wisdom and real spirituality was passed down secretly through initiation rites.
You can spot (and avoid) gnostic "gospels" easily by recognising their "fish-hook" lie; that Jesus, Moses, Thomas, and even Enoch secretly taught "mysteries" to their "initiates" that the uninitiated, unwashed masses couldn't possibly understand. You know you're involved in a gnostic lie when:
(a) you can't make heads or tails of a supposed parable; WHEREAS JESUS EXPLAINED HIS PARABLES. CHRISTIANS DON'T HIDE LANTERNS UNDER BUSHELS AND NEITHER DID JESUS.
(b) spiritual truths are only available to the elite, wherein divine secrets are told in an ascending system of degrees; GOD IS NO RESPECTOR OF PERSONS AND EVERYONE CAN BE SAVED
(c) overabundance of detail given to things of a spiritual nature (time, space, colour, number, smell, taste, feeling, hearing); THE PROPHETS SAY "WAS LIKE UNTO" AND "HE WHO READETH, LET HIM UNDERSTAND" WHEN DESCRIBING HARD-TO-DESCRIBE SPIRITUAL DETAILS
(d) you are coddled into thinking you're the chosen one (they love telling you you're going to be a messiah); THERE IS ONLY ONE SAVIOR AND TAKING ANY OTHER PATH LEADS TO DAMNATION
(e) someone "discovers" a secret tomb or scroll that "gives God, faith, and the Bible new meaning" or "enhances the Bible's meaning and purpose"; THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH MY GOD, MY SAVIOR, OR MY BIBLE. IT AIN'T BROKE.
Sorry about the all-caps folks >;')
Theosophists, Anthroposophists, and occultists (occult=hidden) of every stripe use this desception to lure the curious into their web. People read gnostic literatiure out of interest, get confused, walk into a "gnostic bookstore" or a "mason hall" to ask for enlightenment, the fellow he asks tells him about a club that meets once or twice a week... at a lodge, maybe... and he digs deeper and deeper into the "mysteries", and joins this "literary society" or that one... the next thing you know, that "curious cat" ends up in a cesspool of evil.
Hope this helps.
next time you want to read someone the Holy Ghost riot act, do it as a PM, a private message, I suggest that in meekness and love, neil
(later edit: Drei, I see what you were referencing vis-a-vis your rebuke....sigh...I love my brother Rahman, and I love the creative act of writing, but two words come to mind:
"thin ice"......nuff said)
Yea... I was a little taken aback by this myself. Not even sure what the issue was, but the tone of this response was not necessary.
Krispy
I think explainations on both sides of the issue could allow the situation to be judged righteously.
If someone is spreading heresy and false doctrine maybe the issue should be discussed. Or maybe when someone is spreading heresy and false doctrine it should never be rebuked because someone might get their feelings hurt.
Bottom line for me, where does God lead and what does Scripture say?... but again, what are the forum-discussion policies pertaining to this one?
Everyone has an opinion; although, some should learn to mind their own business.... carrying a cross is too painful for some.
richie
I dont disagree, surely. Heresies need to be pointed out and rebuked. But I think before we use a scatter gun on someone who has a pretty strong reputation on this forum, we should perhaps use a more surgical form of rebuke.
If the Book of Enoch was inspired scripture, and something that God wanted us to have and use as scripture, then He would have made sure that we would have it in our hands... just as He has preserved the rest of His Word to us.
I know some here do not see eye to eye with me on the Doctrine of Preservation, but I believe God preserved His Word entirely.
Thats not to say that the Book of Enoch is a bad writing, or there isnt any truth contained in it... I'm sure there is. But it is not God's Word. If it were, He would have preserved down thru the ages , and it wouldn’t be some “secret” book locked away from God’s people.
God does not keep Himself from those who seek Him.
Anyone who claims the Book of Enoch is the inspired Word of God is wrong. But I don’t think that public flogging is the way to correct a brother who is in error.
Krispy
Oh dear
Anyone who claims the Book of Enoch is the inspired Word of God is wrong.
If a person holds this view privately they are entitled to believe what they will, but if a person brings such a belief into the public forum he must be prepared to be challenged, for the public's sake.
KrispyKrittr wrote:
I dont disagree, surely. Heresies need to be pointed out and rebuked. But I think before we use a scatter gun on someone who has a pretty strong reputation on this forum, we should perhaps use a more surgical form of rebuke.
But I don’t think that public flogging is the way to correct a brother who is in error.
The Word of God that we have today is complete. God knows what His real Word is. He's preserved His Word for all these years. No one should add or take away from His Word.
22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19
You see, God knows what He's doing. He finished His Word in the last few scriptures of the last book of the Bible, Revelation. Let the Word answer your questions.
Also, when I first started on this site, a really nice person {enid} helped me out. My first post contained, I think, no scripture. It was simply my opinion. I made a big mistake by doing that. Only post what you can back with God's Word. No one can argue with the Word of Almighty God. It stands true forever.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Love ya'll in Jesus!
If a person holds this view privately they are entitled to believe what they will, but if a person brings such a belief into the public forum he must be prepared to be challenged, for the public's sake.
Absolutely, and I didnt say he shouldnt be challenged publicly. I just dont think that it should be done in the manner that it was... unless the offender continues on in there error.
I dont think we start out by screaming "Ichabod!".... and then stoning the person.
Krispy
No one can argue with the Word of Almighty God
...altho many try! lol
Welcome aboard! Blessings to you...
Krispy
brethren
i have asked this as have some others and nobody has yet to tackle it.
why is it then that in the Ethiopian Church and Eastern Churches that these books on which the called is based are canon scripture there? i know God was/is not ignorant of this so is it us who are missing out on something or is it that our brothers in the east are misled?
perhaps someone could explain this discrepancy?
to me the called doesn't go against scripture. perhaps someone could read it and point out where it does if it does?
Yeah, I made that statement. Many do try to argue with the Word of God. However, it always stands.
It's funny how us humans think we can outsmart God sometimes, isn't it? I've been there before. Sometimes we humans get so full of ourselves we can't see the truth.
It's like when satan thought he was more powerful than God and was thrown out of heaven. satan became full of pride and thought he could outsmart God. However, "Pride goeth before destruction and an haughty spirit before a fall." Proverbs 16:18
People had better watch out. I try to warn them for love's sake. It's their choice to listen. It's their choice to submit to God. There's no sense in getting angry over it. God is in control and He will always be Almighty God. "God won't help those who won't help themselves." We just simply have to pray for them.
to me the called doesn't go against scripture. perhaps someone could read it and point out where it does if it does?
I havent read it. However, just because a writing doesnt contradict scripture doesnt mean it is inspired as the scripture is inspired.
"God won't help those who won't help themselves."
Hey! Thats my favorite scripture! ;-) [i](Tongue firmly planted in cheek)
Krispy
What saddens me is that many of you here on the forum automatically believe any new doctrine or idea you hear without even looking into it first. This guy comes along with his "new secret books" and everyone is already accepting every word he says. Satan comes in the form of an angel, I hope you know this. If God had other books out there, they would have been included with the 66 books in the Bible. Unless of course this man had ONLY a vision from the Holy Spirit. That's different, but he claims about other books which aren't included in the Bible. Okay Rahman, I apologize for being so rough on you to begin with. I've just heard of so many so called "lost gospels" and "lost books" that many people try to bring blasphemy to the name of the Lord. That's what has me concerned/
Enoch is quoted in Jude though...just a point
Hi DREi ...
Since this discussion is already taking place on ...
"THE CALLED" - by Rahman Reuben ... Chapters 1 to 3 ...
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=2289&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go
i'll not be dividing my responses between it and your new thread ... But i will post this my reply to you here ...
Blasphemy is serious ... Since you know me guilty of such please pray for me that our Lord will deliver me from such ...
(I DON'T SAY THIS FECISIOUSLY) ...
Blessings in Christ Jesus! ... :-D ---
wouldent you agree that many writen things outside the Bible is inspired?
by that i dont meen i want to make it canon.
but wouldent one say Martin Luthers writings was inspred? or John Wesleys? i could make the list long.... i belive they where all inspired by God but i dont want to make them canon,,, but they are good for reading and studying, so are some other books like the book of enoch, i havent read it myself but heard there is some very intresting things in there that can be "related" to what is in the bible,
im just saying there is much "inspired" writings,
DREi wrote:
If God had other books out there, they would have been included with the 66 books in the Bible.
actually there are more then 66 books... the book of psalms are acctually five books compiled to one book
bro KK
I havent read it. However, just because a writing doesnt contradict scripture doesnt mean it is inspired as the scripture is inspired.
i was speaking specifically to the accusation that the called goes against scripture nothing more.
Guys. what I am saying is that what ALL THE CONTENT that God has included IN the Bible is from the Lord and the Word IS THE LORD which is written in John chapter 1 verse 1. What Word is The Bible referred to here? The Word that we don’t have? It’s referring to the Word that we possess of course. And of course I know and believe that many books are written and inspired by people empowered by the Holy Spirit. I’m not denying this. Just look at all the major theologians and evangelists out there and the major christian writers and what they have written. The Holy Spirit inspires many writers. I know a woman from Seattle, Washington who was raptured and then returned back to earth. The Lord showed her a vision of what heaven is and she wrote a book on it. So you can see that I can accept Rahman's vision from God. However, one thing bothers me. Rahman claims some book entitled "The secrets of Enoch." My question to you Rahman is, where/who did you obtain this scroll from?
Scofield would have us believe Jude's use of this quotation from Enoch does not suggest that he considered the 'Book of Enoch' authoritative...it is not impossible that Jude is the source from which the quotation eventually found it's way into 'The Book of Enoch', since there is no evidence as to the precise contents of this book until many centuries after the time when 'Jude' was written (c.a.d.68) He (Scofield) also tells us that this is the earliest recorded revelation of the second coming of Christ. Interesting huh?
Philogos wrote:
and how about someone who claims his own writings are God inspired and that he "...assembled The Called exactly as i heard it, saw it, was led to, and really didn't question much"?
If God had other books out there, they would have been included with the 66 books in the Bible.
Compliments said:
Do we discount our testimonies? Are they not to be collected and put in a book? Do we not have tapes and books that have inspired us to pray and seek God? Are these to be discounted? Is David and Solomon better than us? Is Peter Paul and Mary more holier than us? Are not the travels and pitfalls of our missionaries in foriegn lands are they not worth writing down? Pauls journeys were written down, why not ours? Sure we can stop at 66 books, but stopping means that God has stopped talking, stopped leading, the adventures stop at the book of Revelation? I find that insulting...
I suggest you read the warnings in Revelation (22:18 - 19) to people that wish to add or take away from Holy Scripture. There are sixty six books in the Bible... and probably near six hundred apocryphal books "claiming" to be inspired - if you get my meaning.
You're on a slippery slope, brother.
compliments: expression of courtesy, respect...admiration, praise, flattery...an act of politeness...hmmm
Read whatever you want... you ain't no Paul or David...go your own way, that's O.K., no big deal...Yes, Peter, Paul, and Mary were much more separated to the Lord than we are, does that mean that they were more valuable to our Lord?, I don't know, you decide after you have read again Paul 1cor. 3.
bro CoreyH
I suggest you read the warnings in Revelation (22:18 - 19) to people that wish to add or take away from Holy Scripture. There are sixty six books in the Bible... and probably near six hundred apocryphal books "claiming" to be inspired - if you get my meaning.
the admonition pertains specifically to the word of prophecy recorded in the book of the revelation given to John. at the time the Revelation was given, the canon as we know it was not yet in existance, it came about much later on.i do see your point in that we ought to be careful concerning the scriptures however your argument and use of that scripture is in that context is a misuse of it.
it is also important to note that often times we do place the saints which went before us on a pedastal as though they are better in some way. the truth is as surely as Holy Spirit was with them, He is with us therefore can we not also do all things through Christ as they did? i think it is also important to be aware of one another's experiences that we may see how God is working in us and through us. let us live as like this: if God were still writing scriptures that we would be in them.
Okay guys look. I apologize for opening this topic with that nasty heading about the blasphemy regarding Rahman. I apologize to Rahman Reuben and to every precious saint on this board as well as the moderators on this board. I apologize. I over-reacted. It's just that I get over-emotional about some things as I am a young christian. Im just worrisome when it comes to new teachings. Things like the FAKE "lost gospel of Judas Iscariot," and of that nature. We must procede in caution upon any foreign thing we read and make sure it is Holy Spirit inspired. I have no right to judge off the bat that Rahman Reuben's writing is not Holy Spirit inspired. So I was wrong in that regard. We can now close this argument.
Does not the fact that there is a quote from Enoch in the bible give the Book of Enoch some credibility?
Jud 1:14 And to these also Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, Behold, the Lord came with ten thousands of his holy ones,
Jud 1:15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their works of ungodliness which they have ungodly wrought, and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Blessings Greg
Before this thread drifts away into the faroff lands, I would like to squeak in with a word.
I apologize for opening this topic with that nasty heading about the blasphemy regarding Rahman. I apologize to Rahman Reuben and to every precious saint on this board as well as the moderators on this board. I apologize. I over-reacted. … So I was wrong in that regard. We can now close this argument.
DREi, To me your heartfelt remorse is like a beam of light in the dark. While reading it I thought about Joseph whose brothers sold him into slavery. True, Joseph acted prematurely in revealing his dreams to his brother. He needed some humbling. But that didn’t absolve the brother’s reaction. But, look how God used that very incident to bring about good – on behalf of those very brothers who caused him harm!!! Is that not the nature of God’s grace?
Your story is not finished yet, although the thread may be: I pray that God will give you an opportunity to be blessed by our brother, Rahman, and to see what God is doing in his life in these days. May good now come to you through him.
Isn't it exciting - that when God works in his children, he doesn’t leave them in the past? He moves them on!
Diane
why is it then that in the Ethiopian Church and Eastern Churches that these books on which the called is based are canon scripture there? i know God was/is not ignorant of this so is it us who are missing out on something or is it that our brothers in the east are misled?
The OT canon of scripture was closed with Malachi some 200 years before the writing of the Book of Enoch. The Jews of Christ's day recognised the same 39 books of the OT as we do. Christ did the same.
the wikipedia article on [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch]The Book of Enoch
You can also find out more about [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Orthodox_Church]Ethiopian Orthodox Church
bro Ron
thanks for the response bro, i appreciate the links and will investigate them further as our Lord leads
suggest you read the warnings in Revelation (22:18 - 19) to people that wish to add or take away from Holy Scripture
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: Rev22:18
However, it does go without saying that we should not add or take away from any of the other books. But when John was writing these things down, the Angel spoke concerning the prophecy of the book of Revelation.
But regarding your warning, you and like all those who seem to jump at the chance of being critical, I NEVER said anywhere that we should tack more books to the bible, but rather that our experinces and those who are holy today should have their journeys written in a book, and thankfully some of them have.
And Peter Paul and Mary would tell us today if they could speak to us, "Don't look on us as some icon or some super saints, look to Jesus for we are all one in Christ Jesus our LORD".
the wikipedia article on The Book of Enoch will give more details on this piece of fiction. If you start with a fictitious foundation you may be sure that what is built upon it is equally fictitious.
For this verse of scripture that he quotes is no where in the canon of scriptures.
Read whatever you want... you ain't no Paul or David...go your own way, that's O.K., no big deal...Yes, Peter, Paul, and Mary were much more separated to the Lord than we are, does that mean that they were more valuable to our Lord?, I don't know, you decide after you have read again Paul 1cor. 3.
We are all ONE, one with Peter & Paul. You who want to be great, let him become the servant of all.Mark10:44
We say that these men were great, yet they were the lowest of the low. They served the purpose the LORD of what He wanted them to be. Peter fell from grace by respecting the law as his righteousness to which Paul had to come and correct him and set him straight again. Nay, these men are no different than you and I.
Paul had problems in his flesh, the things that he hated he found himself doing. Hey, Paul is no different than me, I have the same problem.
Anyone who has died for the cause of Christ in our day has paid the ultimate sacrifice they are no different than Peter or Paul.
I refuse to make these men of the bible as Icons or some super saint, that they are better than you and I today.
We are all of ONE in Christ Jesus our LORD. The finger does not say, "I don't need the thumb". We all have a function. Paul had his function, Peter his. We are where we are at today because God has made us to be so.
We should all be focused on Jesus Christ and Him crucified and our faith should be exclusively in what He has done on the cross. NOT in our own ability for we are dead and our lives are hid in Christ. When we are living in this manner by faith or rather "By His Faith", we are no different than all the saints of old.
Thats just the way it is.
Everything we make is available for free because of a generous community of supporters.
Donate