Tithing

I was so encouraged to read the article by Zac Poonen on tithing, where he says the only reason we have tithing, is because pastors love money! See his article on sermon index here.
I had thought that websites like theTithe.org were lone rangers! It seems that in today's commercialized church it is, but not in revived times past. What do you guys make of the whole tithing debate? Time we got rid of it, and went revival?

Jason,
Zac Poonen didn't say "pastors only want money" he said that the only reason that tithing is preached is because of pastors who love money. He didn't say that all pastors are like that, just the ones who preach tithing.
It encouraged me to realize that there was once a day when men of God could trust God without needing the tithing "doctrine".

he said that the only reason that tithing is preached is because of pastors who love money. He didn't say that all pastors are like that, just the ones who preach tithing.

I must disagree with brother Poonen. Perhaps the pastors who constantly rail on tithing and giving, but not all who preach tithing. My pastor has mentioned tithing (never as the core sermon subject, but rather as a sidenote) a few times. Not because he's money hungry, but because of God's promise to meet the needs of those who give.

Constant talk about prosperity, and tithing, and firstfuits is nonsense, but the occasional mentioning of it (because it is a Biblical principal) is okay. Is it not?

I do believe in tithing because of this scripture:

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Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

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Luk 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

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I believe however that the real issue is that everything we have is a stewardship from God. He might want us go give a lot more than ten percent. The ten percent is just an acknowledgment that everything belongs to God to distribute as He wills.

You people do not sound like cheerful givers.

It's sad that Christians can be so mean.

I might be wrong, but it seems as though you begrudge giving even 10%. Why is this?

Let's look at a few scriptures.

Mark 12v42-44 Jesus commends the widow for giving 'all that she had, her whole livelihood'.

Her whole livelihood? Yes, her all.

Acts 4v34-37 people were selling land or houses and giving the money to the apostles to distribute to all who had need.

When was the last time that happened?

Most would end up like Ananias and Sapphira!

2 Cor 9v5-7 Paul is exhorting the Corinthians to prepare their generous gift, and not grudgingly.
Also who sows bountifully reaps bountifully, and sparingly reaps sparingly. Take note.

Matt 6v19-20 Jesus tells us not to lay up treasures on earth, but in heaven.

2 Cor 8v2 says, 'That in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded in the riches of their liberality'.

They were in deep poverty, yet liberal, generous in giving.

Luke 12v33, 'Sell what you have and give alms, provide yourselves money bags which do not grow old, a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches nor moth destroys.

Sell and give alms? That's what they did in the book of Acts.

If anything, a tithe is small compared to what was taking place in the New Testament church.

We want revival? Some of us need to be saved from the love of money before that can happen.

God bless.

I have to agree with enid. They counted nothing they had as their own and joyfully suffered the spoiling of their goods. Their hearts weren't set on earthly things, everything was for the furthering of the Kingdom and the benefit of the brethren.

I think this does so much injustice to Zac Poonen! I cannot tell you which message it is exactly because I've listened to over a hundred of his teachings, but he spoke at length about how he never accepted any money from the church.

Zac Poonen even paid back the church when they threw him a birthday party... he did it in secret, but this is part of how the Lord has lead him to live. Like Apostle Paul he has chosen to be a tent-maker instead of asking money for the Gospel, but doesn't force this teaching on anyone else.

One thing that is worth noting is that he said the strict tithe of 10% was Old Testament LAW. The reason the Pharisees gave 10% was that it was required of the Old Covenant Law.

So Zac Poonen asks quite frankly, 'are we required to pay 10% since we are no longer under the Old Covenant Law?' And of course this answer is no... but he didn't stop there, and that's what I think is the most important...

He continues that we are under the New Covenant... so how much do we owe under the New Covenant? Everything!!! He asked pretty frankly to the audience, 'when was the last time that you thought about your money as if it all belonged to God... [b]God doesn't want 10%, in fact New Covenant believers when they understand this often give MORE THAN 10%![/b]'

That's right, Zac Poonen wasn't teaching that we shouldn't tithe at all -in fact he was teaching that since we are under the New Covenant Law of Love, we should tithe even more generously, because we know who the provider of our money is.

Now we can trust that when Zac Poonen preached this he was not asking anyone for their money, because he doesn't get any money from the church that he teaches at, so any money that is tithed in addition because of this preaching goes to the church needs and ministries... I think this is such a beautiful teaching of New Testament giving!

Apostle Paul went around asking for offerings at his churches for the church in Jerusalem... do you think this was begging, do you think he skimmed off the top for himself? No, absolutely not. So there is a right way to ask for money, if the reasons are properly motivated.

However this money was for the suffering church in Jersualem... not for a new church building, or some expensive broadcasting equipment, or a trip to Europe for the Pastor and his wife. This money was earmarked for the good of the suffering body of Christ!

I would be hard pressed to find any church in America that even gave 25% of the tithing it takes towards Christian Aid to the poor, sick and needy -or to missions for that matter.

We need a new understanding of New Covenant Tithing!

Giving? I read the article this morning and do believe in what Zac is saying about the subject. Everything is the Lords. One question; I personaly have guilt in this area. We generally do not give that much for the money earned barely covers bills and sometimes don't. And I have people tell me you need to give in order to be blessed. Now with two children as well it even becomes difficult to give our time when they require attnetion as well. I do love the Lord and want to serve Him in all areas of my life. Now I want you to know if someone asks anything of me I give my all, but I don't just jump out there and do things or give money especially since we are always so short, but I pray that the Lord will bless us in order that we will be able to give and support worthwhile ministries with money. Any thoughts?

Remember what Jesus said about the woman who gave out of her poverty!

The Pharisees gave 10%, and some of them had a lot, so their gifts were quite amazing to behold... but they were nothing to Jesus, because these people had so much, they could have easily given 30, 40, 50% and still been comfortable.

Jesus beheld the woman who gave the three small coins and loved her! This woman gave everything she had, even what she didn't... she gave everything, not worrying about what she would eat or drink or wear tomorrow -trusting that God is good and he will provide.

CS Lewis in his book Mere Christianity talks about the virtue of Charity and says something like this, 'If it doesn't hurt, then it's not charity!' That's right, if in our giving of our means to the work of God, if it doesn't cause us some discomfort we haven't given enough!

That's a simple rule to live by, if you don't have to change your regular habits of consumption, your life style, where you eat, how you spend your free time because of how much you're giving to church, charity and missions... then you're not giving enough.

This wasn't my measure, this was how CS Lewis put it in his book... but I think we can see it in the lives of those saints who are really sold out for Jesus.

Sacrificing hurts! When we're called to sacrifice our possessions for the sake of the Gospel, it's just like killing a valuable animal that we used on our farm and offering it up the God. We won't have any more use of that animal, and we may be hungrier for it, it may have helped tread out the grain, or pull a hoe, no longer, it was sacrificed to the work of the Gospel.

Americans want sacrifice without pain, giving without tightening the belt!

I think that the invitation to the rich young ruler is an invitation given to the American church... but we haven't heard Jesus clearly. I've heard this sermon preached on one hundred times, and ever time the preacher will make sure to point out, 'well God doesn't want us to literally give up everything we have... this was a specific call to this individual.'

But that ignores Jesus's comment following the invitation, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle... the American church is rich! In general American believers are extremely blessed, materially, intellectually and with health. Are we any better for all of it? No, to someone with great blessing there is also great responsibility.

Choose today whether you can really give up everything for Jesus! Count the costs, we are told to count the costs.

Secondly, I cannot sympathize with you as I have no children or family to support... I think this is why Paul said, and I paraphrase, that it is better for a man not to marry because he has not the cares of this world.

Last night I read an article by Charles Finney which I think every believer should read on the cares of the world. Although the english is a little bit tough because of the age (1839) it is an amazing read and really encouraging.

[url=http://www.gospeltruth.net/1839OE/390508_carefulness_a_sin.htm]Charles Finney - Carefulness A Sin.[/url]

I'm sorry for replying to myself, but I also thought of another great lesson about giving!

I was encouraged by the writings of Brother Andrew about how God would provide for him whenever he was in need.

We'll never be in need of anything from God if we're always making provisions for ourselves!

This is a valuable point to learn. When we build up our own storehouses full of grain, we can never experience God's overflowing blessings for our provisions, because we'll conent, all but ignorant of the good things that God wants to give us.

I'm not saying that you should go out and sell your house, or trade in your car, although some have been lead to do this -I strongly suggest you read KP Yohannan's books and hear his testimony!

God says that we should be wise with our money, but he also says that we should trust in him since he is the maker of all things and will provide for us in our need.

This is the rule to live by, take only what you need for yourself, if you save, save modestly, if you give, give generously! Remember that God cloths the grass of the fields and feeds the birds of the air and more than those want's to provide good things for you.

Now you may have a distorted view of what good things are based on the culture we live in. You may not be able to distinguish wants from needs. There are a lot of things that I want, like a new cell phone, but don't need. I'd like a nicer car, but my car will probably last me another ten years. If I have the means from God to buy these things, it doesn't necessarily mean that i should... I should first inquire as to how God wants me to use the money he's given me.

Remember that God is the Lord of your life, and the Lord of your checkbook, you'll be accountable to him for everything that is written in that as well!

We must begin to understand what Church was then, and what it is now.
Before they met in houses, so let's say this is our setting. I will use names of some posters here to set the idea.(Please forgive if I use your name w/o permission)
Ok, so let's say we meet in krispy's home. Now brother crsschk and his wife have a need and it is made known either by them, or by the Lord, so we ths church at krispy's house provide for it.
Now the next week, or day brother sermonindex comes to us in our fellwship and explains how he is being led to go preach to the Canadians. We take a collection and help him.
Now within this setting, krispy and his wife should receive a little help as well so we do not eat them out of house and home, but the Spirit would guide us as to how much, and how often.
Notice that there is no huffing and puffing, or threatening about the devourer coming, but instead the giving is done unto family. There are no plasma screens to pay for(sorry Krispy), no Pierre Cardin suits, but there is a sharing of what we all have for the Body.

If you have made a covenant with God to tithe, please disregard this post.

Matthew 17: 26 KJV
And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute? He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

We all think our benefactors or different but we are continuing a cruel and corrupt system of trust in money and are still caught and imprisoned by the elements of the world. Trust in the power of almighty God and serve the Kingdom of God. Give all that you have to the Kingdom of God not to the kingdom of greed. There is plenty of money but the shortage of love is astounding. I plead with you to stop giving your support to any earthly organizations who in the name of God demands money. All that you have to show for it is a pious glare toward the poor and a cold heart toward the unlovable. Give your love to the poor and you want have money leftover to perpetuate this practice.

1 Corinthians 9
16. For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
17. For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
18. What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
19. For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
rowdy2

And I thought the plasma TV would upset ya :-D

When all the world that sparkles and calls finally looks to me grim
Then shall I have nothing at all
Nothing yet all in Him

I for get what hymn this next line is from, but I believe it's Newton
"Fading are the worldlings' pleasures, all their boasted pomp and show;"

I guess this can be a sensitive subject but I always thought the Word said the tithe belong to the Lord, well the Pastor is not the Lord or the Church is not the Lord, I thought that Jesus said when you give to the least of me your giving to the Lord, so if you give to anyone in need you giving to the Lord.

I have never felt anyones giving should ever be confined to the Church, and personally I don't feel "any" Pastor should ever preach on tithing directly because if he is preaching the word of God the congregation should already know this, one of my biggest turn offs on any pastor is when they start on the tithe thing and try and make you feel under condemnation.

A favorite quote of the tithe teachers is second part of Malachi 3:10, “Prove me now … if I will not open the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.” I could confidently make the declaration that the greatest majority of the Christians that faithfully give 10% or more, under the tithe system, never see a return “blessing” so large they don’t have enough room to receive it.

In fact, I find a lot of them having a hard time just making ends meet. And I am not including the Christians that get themselves into financial bondage with large house and car payments trying to keep up with the Jones’, I’m referring to the ones who are having difficulty affording the basic necessities of life (food, water, shelter and clothing). I think we all realize "blessings" encompass a lot more than just money, but money is a part of it, especially if the seed sown is currency, and financial returns are what the tithe teachers emphasize when referencing “blessings.” If this Malachi Old Covenant verse is for a New Covenant believer, why isn’t it working?

These brothers and sisters are “proving” God as they are told to do for many years, yet very few see huge returns, financial or otherwise. Could it be because they are not giving to the true temple “storehouse,” or maybe because the money is not going to the actual tribe of Levi as it was supposed to? It seems the majority of the ones seeing the abundant returns are the ones collecting the tithes.

I recently started working for a Christian ministry and there's another person doing pretty much the same job as me. He supports a wife and three children on the money that he makes here... his wife similar to Krispy's stays at home.

I consider how difficult it is for me to make ends meet with the money I make in this job... and then I get to consider that he has provided so generously for this other man, and although he mentions things are tight he wouldn't have it any other way.

Now there are also other members of our ministry (it's big, over 1300 employees here at this campus) that drive BMWs and have a lot more in physical possessions, so I don't want to say those things necessarily are evil. It's not money, or possessions that are evil, it's negligence of the provider that is.

If someone is making 200,000 a year working for a Christian ministry (and some people do), it wouldn't be evil for them to buy a 30,000$ dollar car if they gave an equal ammount to charity and the kingdom. Now I hope that if I was in that position I would make choices that have a better witness, like driving a used Honda instead of a BMW -but each of us have a different calling.

Right now my means support a used Saturn, renting an apartment with two room mates and paying off student loans... It'd be difficult to imagine raising children and supporting a wife in a similar situation with similar needs so I don't want to compare myself with anyone on this.

Now I don't want to infer that I'm poor, God has blessed me so much! From my blessing I want to show how much I appreciate the generous blessing that I have recieved.

brethren
the tithe was for the purpose of tending to the Levites who had no share in the inheritance as the other tribes did. they didn't have time to work the land as the others did so the others brought in their tithes so that they would also eat of the fruit of the land. if you see in leviticus and the other books of the law how involving it was to be a levite, you'll see why the other tribes had to pitch in. that being said, we are not jews that we should tithe, we have no equivelent to the levitical priesthood in the Church for we are all kings and priests so there is no basis for tithing so i don't tithe. i give as our Lord leads, sometimes it's 10% sometimes it's more it just depends on what He requires. i find most of the time though it is not to the organized church but rather to a brother or sister who has nothing to eat or something like that.

Christ said not one jot or tittle of the law would pass away because He came not to abolish but to fulfil the law. if we are to be like Him, ought we not do as He did? to use the law of moses as a basis to call people to tithe is wrong not because the law is not in effect (it is but through Christ we can fulfil whatever it requires not unto salvation but as proof of salvation) but rather we in the Church have no such thing as a levitical priesthood/tribe to look after.

i'm not saying don't give, clearly the N.T. Church gave but they gave as God led and God honoured that. this is how we ought to be, if it is 10%, then it is 10% as He leads if it is more, then it is more, if it is less then it is less.

Hello...

Actually, the concept of a "tithe" goes all the way back to Abraham's tithe to Melchizedek (Genesis 14; Hebrews 7). Melchizedek was certainly a priest -- but not in a Levitical sense of the word.

Currently, I believe in the concept of the tithe. I don't feel legally obligated to a mere tenth of my income. However, I feel that the tithe was no more discontinued than the actual act of worship. While we may not be legally bound -- it is still a great concept. Regardless, the Lord certainly wants us to give cheerfully -- and not out of obligation. But the same in true of our worship. God desires our worship, but it must be given wholeheartedly and willfully for it to have meaning.

Of course, I do not feel strongly enough about the issue to make a concrete doctrine out of it. And I wouldn't be so bold as to say that those who believe either way are "free" or "slave" to the concept. I believe in the concept, yet I feel that I am FREE of unnecessary or irrational legalism -- at least in regards to this issue.

Ironically, some of the individuals that argue AGAINST the tithe are actually arguing out of fear concerning their income. I believe that ALL of my belongings are at the Lord's disposal. With this in mind, a tenth (or even 25%) seems small. The Church deserves to have its needs taken care of. I attend a small local fellowship. We have a small brick building that seats about 150 people. Our pews have no padding. We recently put tile in our Sunday School classrooms. The pastor works full-time as a nurse, and then takes on the responsibility of pastoring the Church. In order to make ends meet, many members give more than a tenth.

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:

Ironically, some of the individuals that argue AGAINST the tithe are actually arguing out of fear concerning their income. I believe that ALL of my belongings are at the Lord's disposal. With this in mind, a tenth (or even 25%) seems small.

In the first sentence of Malachi 3:10, the statement, “All the tithes” is plural, which means there is more than one tithe. There was more than just a tithe of their money the Hebrews were required to give.

In Leviticus 27 it explains that the Lord owns the first tenth of everything, including cattle, oxen, sheep, the seed of the land and the fruit of the tree. If any of the things that were tithed were not of the best quality or unclean, they were required to “add the fifth part thereof” to redeem the tithe. So, on occasion they were required to add 20% more to a tithe to redeem it.

This made some of the tithes more than 10%. The law also stated the first tenth of everything belonged to the Lord. If they grew 10 roses in their garden, they had to tithe the first one. I strongly suggest, under these Old Covenant legalistic standards, VERY few Christian have met this standard and given ALL their tithes. Did you tithe on the tomato plants in your garden, or on the value of all your gifts you received on your birthday? If you are one of the few who did tithe on your tomatoes, did you add one fifth more for the ones that had blemishes? If not, you did not give ALL your tithes.

Hi MrBillPro...

I understand the dilemna about the legal definition of a tithe. I do not have a garden. Thus I do not tithe a rose or strawberry. However, I do earn an income. Of that income I gladly give back, at the least, one tenth.

As I said before, I am no where near accepting the concept of tithing as a certain and established "doctrine" of the Church. However, I accept the principle of the idea. Most individuals today (right or wrong) establish a day seperated as a "day of rest." The New Testament declares that EVERYDAY is a Sabbath rest for God's people (and not just the Hebrew Sabbath). While the day might not be "holy" (as was the Old Testament Sabbath), the principle is still good.

I feel that it is the responsibility of local believers to take care of the local Church and "missionaries" that preach the Gospel (as well as those that either reap or desire to share in the benefits of a particular ministry).

Even today, I know of some Churches that have much of their needs provided for through non-monetary tithes. In [i]The Cross and the Switchblade[/i], David Wilkerson testifies of townspeople who paid their "tithes" in produce, crafts or labor in Phillipsburg, Pennsylvania. Money may not be everything; but in today's society, it takes money to pay the morgage.

The very small fellowship that I attend used to meet across town in a small wooden shack. The body of believers decided to purchase a brick Church building that was for sale (on about four acres). The Church body realized the difficulty of the task -- but rose to take on this responsibility. This local Church does not "require" a tithe. However, it often takes a bit more to keep the building. We worked to build the pews, place the tile on the floor, buy a sound system, etc... In fact, the pastor (who works full time as a nurse) and his wife (who works full time as a public school teacher) also have a small catering business to help cover some of the Church expenses. The pastor often comes to Bible studies and prayer meetings in his hospital scrubs. We are kept up-to-date about the expenses of the Church. This often prompts many of us to willfully and cheerfully give more (if we can afford it). Amazingly, in less than four years, we will have paid off the property (by this summer).

Do I feel that all believers must tithe? Of course not. I am merely convinced of this issue myself. I am completely open to the idea that I might be wrong. I would never believe that a person should ever be FORCED to tithe any more than I feel that a person should be FORCED to worship or pray. I probably wouldn't continue attending a local fellowship that created a legal obligation for tithes (although I have attended a couple). On the other hand, a regular tithe helps the pastor (or secretary) determine a semi-consistent monthly income (in order to determine the financial stability of the congregation).

I believe that we should never be fearful of a tithe -- nor embrace the idea that a "tithe" is equivalent of "chains" (or a lack of "freedom"). I am glad to give unto the Lord. In addition, we should not make a "law" out of the tithe or giving. When the axe is laid to the root, I think that we discover that "tithes" and "offerings" were simply God's people providing the provisions needed for His work (and workers) to continue on the Earth. The Church certainly exists without money -- but it takes the generosity of God's people to provide the building, instruments, hymnals, overhead projectors, communion elements, etc... Our small congregation could not afford a building (or the expenses within that building) if our entire congregation simply gave 1 or 2%.

Well, at least the bank doesn't think so.

:-)

I believe that ccchhhrrriiisss hit on the reason most of us tithe a tenth or there abouts. We like having a building to meet in and somehow the bills on said building must be met.

In this quote:

[color=0033CC]This made some of the tithes more than 10%. The law also stated the first tenth of everything belonged to the Lord. If they grew 10 roses in their garden, they had to tithe the first one. I strongly suggest, under these Old Covenant legalistic standards, VERY few Christian have met this standard and given ALL their tithes. Did you tithe on the tomato plants in your garden, or on the value of all your gifts you received on your birthday? If you are one of the few who did tithe on your tomatoes, did you add one fifth more for the ones that had blemishes? If not, you did not give ALL your tithes.[/color]

we see a limited distribution.

All we have belongs to God and should be at His disposal moment by moment. We don't have to worry about these little miniscule things if we are a conduit of His provision to those He sends us to.

If this worlds good don't have us we will gladly share everything we have that might benefit someone else. We won't be worried about tithing 10%, we will be looking for opportunities to further the Kingdom with our substance and we won't be weighing out to see if we have come up to our 10% worth.

I have probably already wore out my welcome with this thread and I usually don't even post this much on any thread it can lead to some serious disagreements, but I think it's really important for the baby Christians to know that when we surrendered to Jesus as Lord, we also received a new spirit “whereby we cry Abba Father,” Romans 8. God is now our daddy and we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us who knows all things and reveals all things, John 14.

We no longer have to go to a temple to see God’s presence, He is right there within us all the time in the new temple, which is our own body. In the Old Covenant, the only people who were given the anointing of the Holy Spirit were the prophets, priests and kings (Psalms 51:11). Every true born again Christian now has access directly to God and His Holy Spirit. This is why the veil in the temple was ripped apart at the same moment Jesus died (Mark 15). It was Gods way of showing us we now had direct access to Him and He no longer lived in the Most Holy Place of the temple. We don’t need a priest to tell us how to give because we are supposed to use the Holy Spirit to guide us in those decisions.

Jesus beheld the woman who gave the three small coins and loved her! This woman gave everything she had, even what she didn't... she gave everything, not worrying about what she would eat or drink or wear tomorrow -trusting that God is good and he will provide.

Traditionally, it has been taught that Jesus was endorsing the Widow's sacrifice. Recently, I heard a [url=http://garycarpenter.org/MP3/GFA1005.mp3]shocking sermon[/url] stating that, in context, Jesus' comment wasn't an endorsement of the woman as much as it was a rebuke of the rich.

He may be correct based on this contextual evidence:
- Jesus had just cleared the temple
- He had just told the parable about the greedy, evil vinegrowers
- He made his observation about the widow right after warning the disciples/people to beware of the scribes, "who devour widows' houses, and for appearance's sake offer long prayers." Then saying, "These will receive greater condemnation."

I'm not necessarily endorsing the speaker, but it is worth a consideration - religios tradition gut check. The message is coming from a guy who takes no salary and gives all of his ministry resources away for free. So it's not like the message is by someone stingy towards God.

I'd be curious to study the treasury in that day. How it was perceived, who managed the money.

All of our money should be at God's disposal, since he allowed us to have it.

Hi all,

I am kind of doing this a little backwards. My first thought was to post my testimony and also introduce myself, but the "grace" topic caught my eye, and now this one. Allow me to share what the Lord taught me on the topic of tithing. You can read it at this link:
http://www.ekklesia4him.net/part_1_1.html#_tithe
I pray that it will be helpful.

What an interesting firestorm the subject of money brews! The following is just my own musing on the subject. I do not mean to take a doctrinal stand.

Much of this discussion seems to focus on the law. Is tithing a law that we are under?

The vast majority of OT law has to do with sacrifice for sin. Are we under any of these laws? God forbid.

There are, however, other commandments (only 10?) that have nothing to do with sacrifice, but rather have to do with how we relate to our fellow man. If I break one of the ten commandments, may I excuse myself because I am not under the law? These laws are ones we are, in a sense, still "under". To break them is to sin. To break them is to countermand the new law that we are under which is to love God with all our heart..., and to love our neighbor as ourselves.

So the question is, where does tithing fit in? In one sense, the OT laws not related to sacrifice are a baseline. A minimum standard if you will. In mathematics we are all familiar with positives and negatives. Zero representing the line of division. To sin is to cross the line into negative. To not sin is to remain at zero. The law of love demands that we live our lives not only without sin, but rather on the positive side. To love is to give; of our time, our ear, our compassion, our sacrifice of intercession etc. It also demands that we share our resources.

So the question I have is, which type of law does tithing fall in? Is it not fair to view ten percent as a biblical baseline for our monetary giving?

On a seperate note. We must be able to trust our leadership with the finances of the church. hopefully these are handled prayerfully. How in the world could I continue to attend a local body if I could not trust the leadership?

In closing, let me relate two testimonies. Years ago, I went to a church that had consistent and abundant provision. One month that provision inexplicably dried up. As the pastor was agonizing in prayer over this (imagine how he must have felt) he heard the Holy Spirit whisper one word. "Guatemala". This church had for years been faithfully giving to an orphanage/outreach ministry in that country. Unfortuneately, they had recently changed secretaries, and the gift was never sent. The pastor raced into the secretaries office and asked what the balance was in their checking and told her to send it all immediately. As you can guess, the following Sunday the provision "spigot" was back on in full.

A similar thing happened at my current church. The pastor shared in a small group setting that giving was down for several weeks and asked for prayer (he did not condemn the congregation from the pulpit). Afterward, I shared the above story with him. Later he shared with the congregation that he had chosen to stop supporting a ministry he had been giving to for years. He sent this gift along and once again, the following Sunday the giving was back to "normal".

In His love, Doug

Quite a bit more to be considered for the willing. A number of helpful links within these discussions as well. Some links from the forum, the older towards the more recent;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=1788&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]Tithing is not a Old Testament Law ![/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=4398&forum=40&post_id=&refresh=Go]tithing[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=6984&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go]"enforced" tithing?[/url][url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=9651&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go]How about tithing nowadays?[/url]

One wonders whether the tithing debate will ever end. I guess we'll have to wait for heaven to find out whether we have to tithe there too?

Perhaps Upton Sinclair has a point when he said:
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.

Amen!

You people do not sound like cheerful givers.
It's sad that Christians can be so mean.
I might be wrong, but it seems as though you begrudge giving even 10%. Why is this?

I don't tithe anymore, but I am a generous giver. I gave a car that I needed away to a poor single mom who was living in a trailer that had a leaking roof.

So, your perception of what is mean is not correct.

I think that it is mean to demand a tithe from poor people like the lady I just quoted, when she cannot afford it. The Bible actually said that the poor were supposed to receive some of the tithe, not be tithed. It is the tithing message that is mean. Rich people don't appreciate this fact.

Worse still are those who preach that you get cursed for not tithing. No wonder some people leave the church! They are told that they are poor, because they don't tithe, and they are told that they don't love God because they don't tithe.

Where is the compassion in tithing?!

Hello Compliments...

The Tithing question will end with my Post. Your in either two camps.

1)First Camp: If you HAVE to tithe, your under some sort of law that you or your church has made you to sit under and have been convinced that this is pleasing to God.

2)Second Camp: If you WANT to tithe, than God Bless You, you are under grace, freely have you received, Cheerfully you give. You do this by Faith, because you want to.

For this is the law of liberty.

As someone who believes in tithing, do I feel secure enough to boldly speak for God and say that giving God at least a tenth is a doctrinal necessity? Of course not. I might be wrong on this issue. In fact, there are many things that are ultimately unclear in the Word of God -- and tithing seems to be one of them. You can assume all that you want, but there are some things that are best left to graceful and honest interpretation. As such...

If God is telling you to tithe, I question what god is speaking to you.

The bottom line is that we should all follow the Lord's commands to the best of our comprehension through study of His Word and prayer. All such doctrinal beliefs should be carried out with an open, humble and honest heart. Tithe-embracers should never pass judgment upon those who do not believe in the concept, nor should non-tithers pass judgment upon those who reject the concept. Such attitudes of "doctrinal superiority" (or supposed better "hearing" of the Word) concerning issues that are either not 100% completely clear really seem to divide the Body of Christ. There are some things that are completely without room for debate (Hebrews 6:1-3). There is room for grace and meekness concerning the rest.

Just a simple word to the wise.

:-)

Thanks Chris, for such a thoughtful post.

In His Love,

Doug