You Know You're Visiting a Bad Church If...

Kind of along the same lines, I don't know who said it, 'If you find a Perfect Church, don't go there, you'll just mess it up!'

Three times you are asked to move because you are in 'their seat'.

...the baptistery is in the shape of a firetruck and confetti cannons fire when a person comes up out of the water.

...when the offering plate is handed to you, an usher opens a notebook and tells you how much you need to give.

...the pastor keeps referring to you by name during his sermon on hell.

Ok, I'll join in.

'They just finished their 10 million dollar building project and they've already started raising money for their 20 million dollar building.'

On your way in you see a bearded man knocking on the door to be let in, and folks inside refer to Him as the crazy legalistic guy outside.

...the female pastor begins her sermon as follows: 'I thought I would begin by telling a story, many people tell me that I am good at telling stories...'

Actually happened at a Methodist Christmas Eve service.

...after the pastor finishes his series on Mark, he motions for the snakes.

or

...after the pastor finishes his series on Mark, he asks if anyone is thirsty.

...after the 10th verse of "Just as I am" you are tempted to walk down the aisle to Rededicate something in order to end the invitation.

...the worship team performs and sings "Born To Be Wild" at the request of the elders to celebrate the pastor's 55th birthday on Sunday morning. (This was my church...)

On your way in you see a bearded man knocking on the door to be let in, and folks inside refer to Him as the crazy legalistic guy outside.

Oh my...that's too close for comfort.

MC
:-( :-( :-(

. . . they have a special "Super Bowl Sunday!" service. God forbid that He should be the main attraction.

this is true , of a fellowship I used to attend(which makes it sadder rather than funnier)

The pastor gives a message in "tongues" and then begins the intrepretation

"buttons buttons buttons, there are all kinds of buttons - brass buttons silver buttons yea even choclate buttons"

Upon which hearing, members of the cngregation began praising the Lord with "thank you Jesus" and "Amen".

...before the "power service" the entire worship team is outside in the parking lot smoking and joking. (true story)

...for "Valentine's Day" the church sanctuary hosts a quiet, candlelight dinner for married couples, replete with chocolate-dipped strawberries and slow-dancing to popular contemporary Christian ballads. (true story - $20.00 per couple)

...the children's church superintendent brings her Mary Kay cosmetics kit on Wednesday night to teach pre-teen girls how to put on make-up. (true story)

Are you getting angry yet?

The pastor opens with a joke, and closes with a joke, and everyone laughs all the way through.

The pastor stands up to preach, and opens PDL rather than the Bible, or begins to quote R.W.

The pastor preaches a message you just listened to another man preach the night before, jokes and all.(used to happen almost every Sunday)

When the pews begin to have cup holders for your Starbucks

The preacher is wearing sweats and a Carolina Panthers jersey :-P
(for you Krisp)

If I had read the book first, I could have stayed home from church for 3 months and not missed a thing!

Even if you had not read the book you still wouldn't have missed a thing. ;-)

JaySaved wrote:
...the female pastor begins her sermon as follows: 'I thought I would begin by telling a story, many people tell me that I am good at telling stories...'

Actually happened at a Methodist Christmas Eve service.

And then she proceeds to quote from the hit TV show, "The Sopranos."

True Story.

...there is a large Catholic bible outside the sanctuary in the lounge area that contains a picture of the pope, pictures of how to properly administer the mass, a picture of Mary being 'crowned in heaven', and numerous prayers of concentration to Mary asking her to speak to Jesus for you.

True story, I spoke to the pastor about this and he finally had it removed. Apparently, someone donated it and the leadership didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

The preacher never opens the Bible, and instead draws "inspiration" from an Elton John song (quoting the lyrics). . .

Meanwhile, the youth section is so noisy and disrespectful that WE have to turn around and ask them to be quiet (and we were first time visitors!) . . .

(absolutely true story)

...your'e in an Episcopal church that holds a [url=http://www.christianpost.com/article/20070130/25500_Bono%2527s_Songs_Replacing_Hymnals_in_Churches.htm]"U2-Charist"[/url] service.

MC

I am probably just old fashioned, but the last church I attended allowed the youth to wear their hats in the sanctuary during their evening service..

Blessings Greg

Ok here's mine...

The pastor is preaching a sermon with 5 points for whatever topic it was...and it was directly from Dake's annotated Bible notes. My friend had Dake's on her lap and nudged me pointing to her notes. Nothing like a just-add-water-and-stir sermon...kinda like Kraft Dinner.

Sonja

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

The music is so loud it gives you a head ache so you leave before your head splits open!

ginnyrose

You attend a wedding and the pastor preaches a sermon. The subject deals with physical intimacy which embarasses the audience and the couple as well. And you wish your children would be elsewhere! (True story!)

ginnyrose

you guys are so kool!

:-D

1. The preacher does not even quote a verse from the bible in the whole service!!!!
2.Every starts having a holy spirit service and people acting like clowns!!
3. A DJ starts leading worship
4. A theme like Finding Nemo Service!! or a Narnian Service!!!

A church in my home town has a weekly “outreach” program held every Tuesday night. It’s called “Vegas Nites” I wouldn’t want to bet on what’s going on inside.

God Bless

TJ

...The pastor titles his sermon 'No Confidence In The Flesh: Philippians 3' and then talks about himself for the entire duration and boasts about all the famous people he knows and gets to hang out with...

:-?

The church has a 70's night, you go, and there is no one there over 70.

Bring in the New Year with feasting, singing, children's dance group and at midnight say 'Let's worship God!'

There's dancing and then there is dancing.

This wasn't godly in content, and there sure weren't any timbrel's or harps!

It was street style gyrating. You had to see it.

Well, maybe God accepted it, that's all that matters.

God bless.

As you sit at your table in the worship service (it's called a "Tea-Room Service"), someone brings you some Play Doh, crayons, and paper so that you can express yourself creatively when you feel the urge to do so.

My sister visited a church that did this about 2 years ago. (God help us.)

´.

When the man preaching says, "I dare you to let God write your story." But never mentions Christ

The Assistant Pastor bans CS Lewis from the church because she had a dream in which the Lord told her he was evil....oooh spooky!

...if the only flowers in the landscaping are T.U.L.I.P's.

Ha! Ha!

... you leave the same way you came in, no different. :-o

. . . the church hosts a vintage car show after it's AM service, at the end of which the pastor rides out of the sanctuary on a motorcycle with "Born to be wild" playing over the sound system.

Actually happened a few years ago at one of the largest churches in my city.

...the sermon is based on Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. (true story)

. . . the person leading the music says "I hope we entertain you tonight".

Another true story.

...if the only flowers in the landscaping are T.U.L.I.P's.

BTW I know it's Arminian, but lately it seems that in discussuing Theology people have taken issue with the poor folks of Armenia. :-P

...they won't let you in without your F.R.O.G. bracelet. ;-)

(That one's for Mattie)

The church still sings Amazing Grace!

(that's for the seekers churches. Sorry!)

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." - Titus 1:16(kjv)

The name of Jesus is not mentioned: they only use the term "God". True story. A couple moved into a city nearby, attended a church for several weeks and soon they noticed they never said Jesus name!

ginnyrose

Hey Krispy...

I just read some of these and they are very funny! Thanks!

:-)

SDE wrote:
...the sermon is based on Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. (true story)

...or worse, the sermon is based on [i]Waterboy[/i] (true story)!

:-(

Hi JoeA

. . . the church hosts a vintage car show after it's AM service, at the end of which the pastor rides out of the sanctuary on a motorcycle with "Born to be wild" playing over the sound system.

Don't know if you caught it, but I mentioned another worship service with "Born to be Wild" earlier in this same thread!

There must have been a 'Steppenwolf' annointing moving through the churches! ;-)

MC

(Edit: I had to elaborate on this...our worship team at this church was asked to perform the song one morning. So the singer starts screaming into the microphone against rockin' drums and chugging guitars, "Get your motor runnin' Head out on the highway...Lookin' for adventure, blah blah..." Then just before the chorus he exhorts the congregation like it's a gospel jamboree, "C'mon church!" and everyone all together joins in "Born to be wild! Born to be wild.!"

I wasn't there that day but my wife tells me later in that service there were also several prophecies about angels pourng incense bowls of blessings out on the church. ...or was it bowls of rainbow flavored skiddles? I can't remember :-( ...)

Don't know if you caught it, but I mentioned another worship service with "Born to be Wild" earlier in this same thread!

Yeah, i did see that. Your story seems to be sadder than mine because of the "prophecy".

When will a respected man of God stand up in one of these churches and say "Where is God in all of this?"

You go to the senior pastors wedding and the ushers are clowns.

The pastor wears a rainbow vestment robe.

The pastor prays with you after your own wedding and begins "Dear Father/mother God..."

I'm sad to say this was my own mother :-(

No, she did not perform my wedding.

Help, help, pray for me please!
(I've been praying for her for years)

Doug

...When every week it's the same 50 people talking about how they are going to take this city for God, but that same 50 people's lives never change.

...

Your story seems to be sadder than mine because of the "prophecy".

Prophecies were a weekly habit in that church. They considered themselves a prophetic people...by this they meant not that they were a people who listened to and obeyed the Word...but that they believed in giving prophecies.

When will a respected man of God stand up in one of these churches and say "Where is God in all of this?"

Usually a few seconds before he becomes a disrespected man...

MC

You know you might be a Pharisee if on a Sermonindex post you pray and thank God that you're not like this or that church who does this or that wrong doctrine etc.

You know you might be a Pharisee if on a Sermonindex post you pray and thank God that you're not like this or that church who does this or that wrong doctrine etc.

Brother I believe that you are not right in saying this. I do not believe anyone here has said anything out of a self righteous heart.
To accuse others because you think you know the intent of their heart is wrong. Some may have even been helped to heal over these experiences by having a place to at least laugh over the hideous things that go on in buildings today.

Also, by your thinking men like Luther, Knox, and the others who revolted or spoke out against the Roman Catholic Church should have been ashamed of themselves for daring to say that the RC system was wrong.

If it is pharisaical to speak our experiences(good or bad), then give me a phylactery. For I know that we as a family should be able to share and support one another without the accusations of being bitter, or being a Pharisee.
Maybe the pharisee is the one who ridicules those who speak against the religious system, as was the case when Christ walked the earth.;-)

After reading the posts on this thread I really cannot say honestly that this was edifying, encouraging, but instead it left me sick to the stomach, both at the truth of what was being said and the chagrin of the people saying it! It's all sick!

I myself said one thing, which in retrospect I am equally ashamed of, I feel dirty having added anything to this thread.

I have only read 2 or three posts in this thread. So while I realize I am speaking without examining the whole matter, I accept the responsibility for it. There is just something about this thread that ties a sink line to my heart.
In Christ,
Hope

You know you're attending a bad church if....1909 views

What True Prayer is....63 views

Mercy and Truth....30 views

???????
Hope

I appreciate your sensitivity guys. I apologize for any offense or tainting.

For what it's worth I certainly don't see this as us being better then them...I was talking about the church I was attending.

While in prayer last week I raised the issue of worldliness in the church and a brother, who believed he could see my heart, said, "Well that's just because you've been hurt by other Christians."

I replied with some dissapointment in his comment..."I was talking about us brothers. I wouldn't have believed in 'almost Christians' unless I had known my own story."

That having been said...it's a tragic subject that if discussed poorly can often hurt more then help. While I think people were just sharing, I can see how this thread can be percieved as glib and self-righteous.

Ian, your complaint is understood and well recieved. Again I am most sorry if my contributions, which were admittedly cynical, also seemed self-righteous. They probably were.

Foolish talk is a hard habit to break.

MC

Reading this thread has been good for me, because it's broken my heart afresh for the state of many churches in our country today. I've been praying much more over them.

i dont know but this says much....

You know you're attending a bad church if....1909 views

What True Prayer is....63 views

Mercy and Truth....30 views

tjservant wrote:
A church in my home town has a weekly “outreach” program held every Tuesday night. It’s called “Vegas Nites” I wouldn’t want to bet on what’s going on inside.

What happens there...stays there!

You see, the problem I have, is that by creating this thread we've cast judgement on all the churches that have done anything like this -irregardless of the whether this was justified.

Now you justify yourself by saying 'don't take yourself too seriously, we're just having a bit of fun.'

Come on!

Why do churches play songs like 'Wild Thing' for their pastor -for a bit of fun. Why do churches have valentines dinners for their married couples -I really don't see a problem with this! Someone even said that a believing church can't sing Amazing Grace!

You're all legalistic hypocrites! You'll use fun as a defense but not allow it to any of these churches that don't muster up to your requirements.

I dare say there may be a larger remnant of people who understand the GRACE of God in those churches than in this forum!

I want to share three things that I thought about after typing my post thismorning.

I recalled Zac Poonen's message on 'condemnation' where he talked about someone coming up to him and complaining about how much TV some 'believers' watch. Zac Poonen's answer was pretty telling -he said that if it really bugged him, he should go out and get a TV himself! He was condemning all these believers for watching TV, but he was the one in error.

Zac followed by saying that he didn't watch much TV, but he wasn't going to go around telling others not to, or that it was wrong -that's something that they need to be led to by Jesus himself.

The next thing that came to mind is when Keith Green talked about the woman eating the six foot long sub sandwhich. He said that if he had eaten it he would consider it gluttony, so he broadcast his own condemning heart about his own sin onto others and regarded them in sin when they had no problem with it at all! In fact, Keith even went so far as to say that it was in fact him sinning at that point and not the one eating the sub sandwhich.

Now I take some offense at this entire topic, and this is my third reason.

Leonard Ravenhill often railed against similar things going on in the church, and we read his books and agree. We then think it is OK if we say the same things, well I was considering this; It's NOT!

We have to remember that Leonard Ravenhill was past sixty years old when he said most of his most provacative statements, he had the authority of years of service and testing behind his words. When he spoke about the rottenness of the church he spoke as a Pastor to pastors!

We forget that Ravenhill had a congregation of pastors, he had prayer meetings that were attended by pastors... and when he spoke harshly of pastors he was admonishing his own congregation -not someone elses!

I very much doubt Leonard had in his heart to condemn churches, but instead to encourage them to get back to their biblical foundations!

So what if a church plays 'Wild Thing' for their Pastor! He without sin throw the first stone!

So what if a church has a dinner for married couples on valentines day! Would you rather have them going to the buffet at the casino?

I can't believe someone actually said that a saved person cannot sing 'Amazing Grace!'

You don't have the authority, you're assuming sin where there may be none and you're judging and condemning others.

I get told to shut up because I just won't play along!

Members,

I was feeling led to post a few days ago regarding this thread. I believe some of the motives are like that of the pharisee who exalted himself. I can say that because the Lord has convicted me of doing the same thing. In some of my past posts, I was complaining about the worldliness of the church I attend. The problem is spiritual pride had crept in. I was exposing these things more for the reason of complimenting myself on how holy I am and not for my concern of their worldliness.

Truth be told, I have enough of my own love of the world that needs to be dealt with before I can correct others on this subject.

Well we can all attest that the majority of churches have alot of spots and wrinkles that need to be taken care of.

If all the of the posts were made out of love and for the purpose of correction, then that is wonderful.

Our hearts are deceitful beyond cure, that scripture should be pondered often. Especially before clicking the "Submit" button.

Murray

BrianMira wrote:
Greetings All...
Silly, I know, but this thread started out as humor in a unhumorous world...let's not take joy from one another, there are enough of those people in the world already.
God Bless / One Love
Brian

Amen Brian, Might I add, you might know if your visiting a bad Church "these days" if you happen to see someone smiling.:-) It's kind of funny we have about two or three of us "one is me" at Church that people just seem to flock to before the service begins just to laugh with us because were alive in the Joy of Christ, it's almost as though these folks hate to return to their seats when the service is beginning, go figure. :-P

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Hey Bill... I thought you attended Osteen's happy church???

:-) :-( :-D ;-) :-o

Krispy

Actually, I quit going there I got "plenty happy" to last me for a while, now I am at a meat of the Word Church but hey they don't know what happy is everyone looks like this :-x there except me, so I am still attending, but also looking for one with Meat and Happiness I really think I will probably never find one but I am going to stretch my faith and hope for one in the near future. :-)

don't have a problem with a V-Day dinner either.

The point with the V-Day dinner is that it took place in my church a few weeks after a brother delivered a message about how worldly-integrated the church of Jesus Christ has become, how far it has fallen from its Apostolic beginnings. The brother mentioned in passing how the "house of prayer" which Christ was so zealous for has since degenerated into a banal meeting place where worldly, secular festivals are now upheld and even sponsored! This was right after Christmas. Our pastor wasn't there for the message, and, sadly, the next week everyone saw in the church bulletin:

Come to Valentine's Nite for Couples!
Chocolate-dipped Strawberries
Gourmet cuisine
Candlelight dining and dancing
Cost per couple - $20.00

I'm sorry, brethren. Call me a legalist hypocrite if you like - but this really vexed me in the spirit. And I think it would vex [i]anyone[/i] who has been praying for revival of holiness and brokeness and personal travail. Actually, I got what I prayed for - spiritual anguish - over the compromised and worldly state of my church. God always answers prayer! The answers are invariably "yes", "no", or "wait." God gave me travail, only through a means I wasn't expecting.

I pray this post is understood.

Brother Paul

I think my whole focus, however abrasive was that instead of focusing on what other churches are doing wrong that we should instead focus on what we are doing to get right with Jesus.

There is a place for the Leonard Ravenhills and Keith Greens to go out and storm strongholds -but there's also a place for quiet intercessors like Praying Payson of Portland (one of Len's favorites).

One of the incredible blessings we have here at SermonIndex is the wealth of scriptural teaching -but just like Jesus' disciples we can still bicker about who's greater than one another even after listening to an amazing sermon by Zac Poonen or Art Katz. That is what I see so often in this forum -and it gets to me.

I hope it gets to you too...

The other day I was sitting in a cafe, and I overheard a conversation between a highschool student and a college advisor. This kid told the advisor how his parents were missionaries and he grew up in Russia, and he hoped to goto Princeton University and study business so that he could go abroad like his parents.

I sat there and slapped my head and thought to myself -why doesn't this kid go and follow his parents into the mission field instead of getting into a hundred thousand dollars worth of debt going to Princeton. The mission field is way more exciting than international business!

I very seriously thought about going and interupting, but realized that the realization was not for his sake, but for mine! If I had gone over there and broken in I would have looked like a fool -even if what I said was entirely truthful!

But here's what I also realized -God has shown me that missions are exciting and that's where he's put my heart! But that young man's heart was elsewhere, and it may be that God is going to use him in international business for His glory.

How much more like a fool would I have looked if I'd walked over there and said he should go be a missionary if he'd already been told by his parents to goto Princeton, if he'd had it confirmed by God in his heart and been encouraged by his church.

The fact of the matter is that we sit and accuse all of these churches of sin -some of them no doubt are sinning. But on the off chance that some of them are being lead in a different direction and ministry than ourselves, I would not be so bold as to condemn them all!

Paul,

I don't know if you're married -I should start by saying that I'm not, but God help me I'd like to be some day! But for me, I think about it this way; if I had a wife I'd want to do something special for her on valentines day. So what if it's a pagan festival, we can eat meat sacrificed to idols.

This would be an wonderful opportunity to spend some time with your wife, show her how much you love her and do it in the presence of your church brethren!

Honestly, I think by doing it at the church, they're actually taking the pagan out of valentines vs. putting the pagan in the church!

Like Zac Poonen said about the man with the TV, instead of condemning it, maybe the reason that you have a problem with it is because you have a condemning spirit in your own heart and you're living under the law.

Zac Poonen's answer to that man was to go and buy a TV. Instead of condemning his brothers who weren't walking in sin, Zac turned around and showed that brother who was really erring.

I wasn't going to mention it, but Mars Hill church had a party on New Years Eve -with wine! Yes they served wine and champaign in the church. Why? Because everyone attending was adults... they were going to have a Christian message, listen to some good music and celebrate the new year.

Now that was just one night, and if you took it out of context you'd think that Mars Hill was the most pagan church on the planet. But quite to the contrary, Mars Hill is one of the most dynamic and powerfully moving churches in the Seattle area. Heavily involved in missions and social ministries, preaching the Gospel from the word of God with authority!

You can even download a sermon from Mars Hill, and no doubt you'll here the word SIN, and that Jesus is the only way! That we have to get on the cross. But if we condemn them for having a new years eve outreach party with drinks and a band we'll entirely miss the fact that they are walking powerfully with the Lord and doing mighty works in his name!

Ian,

We are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols.

"As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality." Acts 21:25

"Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols." Revelation 2:20

Is Mars Hill, the same organization that did the "Bullhorn Guy Video"?

I personally think that becoming like the world, to win the world is a bad strategy.

Murray

The teaching of Paul concerning food sacrificed to Idols.

1 Corinthians 8:4-9 NASB

4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one.

5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords,

6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

7 However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

8 [b]But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat[/b].

9But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.

Since God is God and idols are just hunks of wood and stone, we know that meat sacrificed to idols is in fact meat that has been sacrificed to wood and stone -there's nothing wrong with that BBQ!~

Now the problem is, that there is so much freedom we're given under grace that can be misunderstood for sin. But there's also so much religiosity that can be misunderstood for piousness and holiness that is wickedness according to Jesus.

That is why we are called to the narrow road. We are on a path that is bordered on one side by wonton abuse of grace, and on the other side by dead legalism. We have to be careful how we tread this way.

Ian,

I knew you were going to use those scriptures. I almost included them in my previous post. I don't think Paul is telling us to heap on the food sacrificed to idols. He knows idols are nothing, but most people don't. Therefore their concsciences are made guilty if they partake.

Murray

Sorry for hijacking the thread!

Dear Ian,

Yes, brother, I am [i]very[/i] married. I totally understand your point, I know how you feel. Right after I posted, I got a check in my spirit that I shouldn't have contributed here. The whole tone just seemed too jocular and irreverent.

Zac Poonen's answer to that man was to go and buy a TV.

Ah, but this is not the same. I'm not sure Poonen would throw a wine and champagne and dancing party in his church. This is different than "condemning" someone for watching TV. I would never "condemn" a person for watching TV, just like I wouldn't "condemn" a man for getting a tattoo or earring who professes to be a Christian. But it would certainly be an indication of weakness and immaturity. Brothers and sisters are at different levels in the school of God. And conversely, a brother who is clean cut and pure-looking on the outside could be filled with a plethora of germs and bacterial sin on the inside. Only God knows our hearts, and how far we've advanced in his invisible school.

Yes they served wine and champaign in the church.

Why? Why would a church serve wine and champagne? Why the surging music and dancing? Is this walking in the Holy Spirit and making no provision for the flesh? Ian, where do we draw the line? O, that we could just get a single [i]glimpse[/i] into the face of Jesus Christ with all his blazing holiness and glory - brother, I assure you we would never pick up a glass of champagne or turn on the filthy idiot box again.

We would be changed. And go on and on from glory to glory into progressive perfection and holiness. We would begin to love the things God loves and hate the things God hates. We would become zealous for his righteousness and purity and humilty and truth to shine like a sun through us. We would be totally crushed and self-deprecated to the level of a worm in a dunghill (dancing, gyrating, champagne drinking worms?) and there be exhalted in knowledge and wisdom through godly affliction and suffering. Our only desire, our sole insatiable thirst would be to to gain a more perfect revelation of Christ's holiness and conformity to Him in the inner man.

Brother Paul

murdog wrote:
Ian,

I knew you were going to use those scriptures. I almost included them in my previous post. I don't think Paul is telling us to heap on the food sacrificed to idols. He knows idols are nothing, but most people don't. Therefore their concsciences are made guilty if they partake.

Murray

Sorry for hijacking the thread!

Murray,

Maybe I have a particular affinity towards Paul's words as a self confessed carnivor! God made it good, so let's enjoy it! Pass the BBQ! (I hope you realize I'm attempting humor).

And on the 8th day man ate steak and it was very very very good!

Brother Paul,

I wanted to input that I am not a member of Mars Hill and don't know their thinking behind their New Years party.

I do know some Mars Hill members and might be able to argue along their line of reasoning.

Mars Hill is very much about being a church to underdog, the prostitutes, the poor, the down trodden in the same way that the salvation army in the 1800's and preachers like Charles Spurgeon were.

In fact there rational for allowing drinking goes much along the lines that 'Jesus wasn't against having a glass of wine, even with sinners and prostitutes.'

They take this farther to say that even Charles Spurgeon could drink with the best Sailors. However they do draw a strong line against drunkeness.

The point of me mentioning this event was to show that if taken out of context it could be easily misunderstood. Mars Hill is a very biblically grounded church. I encourage you to look up Mark Driscoll on youtube and listen to some of the short snipets about a 'missional church.' He talks about an open hand and a closed hand theology -something which I think is biblical.

So yeah, Mars Hill = Great Jesus Centered Church. I'm not a member, but I've seen their fruit. If I had just mentioned the new years eve party you'd probably think they were the worst church in the world. The thing is, their party was more about the irony of the fact that they were partying than just mindless fun.

I could post something like..."The color orange is a very bright color!"...and someone will claim that orange is not just a color but a spiritual metaphor for salvation

:-P

MC

then someone will point out that where the KJV says "orange" the NIV says "tangerine"...

If you take it back to the Greek…tangerine is actually the better word in this case. :-P

TJ

Krispy,

The orange/tangerine debate, don't get me started. This could get uglier than the Cal/Arm thing!!!

Murray

KrispyKrittr wrote:
but I am convinced there are a lot of people here only because they looooove to argue.

Krispy

Unfortunately, I have noticed this as well(and am probably one of the culprits), which is why I don't participate much in the forums anymore...

I thought that your thread was humorous and sad, how far have we fallen from what we've been called to...

You know you are in a bad church when the visitors are ignored by the regular attendees. True story

ginnyrose

PS: I found this, thought it good ... and perhaps some may find it helpful?

If the Pastor's introduction to giving tithes and offering is longer than his sermon.

I strenuously object to the use of oranges as a metaphor for salvation!

I prefer apples.

And no, oranges aren't quite as bright as they seem.

There, i said it. You may all carry on with the serious conversation now....

You know your visiting a bad church if.......repentance is not preached and Jesus is not the Head of the church!

God Bless
mj

edit left out a word by mistake:)

You know you are in a bad church if... Everyone is yelling in tongues so loud you can't hear yourself think nor praise God yourself and men are running up and down the isles with tambourines yelling as well. (True Story)

If the preacher is making jokes or putting down his wife or family down. Or a new person comes in and everyone is more interested in their friends than welcoming them. Or when the Holy Spirit is quenched after an awesome worship time and someone who didn't even worship gets up and gives the craziest announcements. Or the Pastor singles a person out in the message instead of going to them in private. Or what is it, two fast and one slow song for worship. Or when asked, "how many are you running". I guess this means how many in your congregation. Or the wealthiest get the most honor. There is no call to repentance or time of prayer of any kind. Or no one goes forth for any kind of prayer.

But we are the light of the world so where the Lord has us that is where we should let it shine with the love of Jesus and pray, pray, pray! Amen

How about this thought; You know your visiting amongst those in the "true Church" when Jesus is lifted up as head of a body of believers completely in love and devoted to HIM. You know that these believers, these followers of Jesus are not the same as so many others because their is genuine love in their hearts for one another and a real desire to live daily in submission and obedience to the Lord. Things of this world, like ministries, building bigger structures, and huge budgets don't concern them, when a need comes up they know that God will provide and is faithful. The main thought that binds them not only to each other but also to Jesus Christ as their Lord, is to see HIM glorified and HIS Kingdom preached through out all the world. They have a heart for the lost even though they know that most in this lost world hate them and wish them harm. These followers of Jesus they don't focus on that, they focus on the ONE who suffered and died so that they might live. You know your visiting with the "true Church, the Bride of Christ...when their fruit bares witness to the ONE who redeemed them!"

Amen Ellie! Amen!

hi,when you run into al those who wrote on this topic,me included.jimp

Boy I'm sure glad I didn't post on this topic...