Myles Munroe

Has anyone ever heard of Myles Munroe? he has written some books about the kingdom of God...he sounds kind of like a dominionist to me, but I would like to know if anyone has actually read anything by him. A lady I know recommended one of his books to me, but I'm not sure. any input would be greatly appreciated!

hey sis
i've heard of him and have yet to read anything from him. i've seen him talk about Kingdom Principles and it is very interesting the perspective he has about what the kingdom of God is. Having been brought up in the Bahamas which was a British colony, it seems our Lord used that experience to show him what a kingdom is and how it functions. i grew up in Zimbabwe which was a British colony but by then it was an independant nation. anyhow those of us who grew up in democracies often don't have a good view of what a kingdom is and how it functions. We are servants of the Kingdom of God and as such our job is to bring the Kingdom of God on earth by seeking His will to be done on earth as it is in heaven. Obviously that will affect the world we live in in many ways but surely we ought not sit and watch and do nothing. as we go forth with the gospel, the world will be affected. i'm looking forward to reading Kingdom Principles as our Lord leads.

it may be our Lord would like you to read it also. See what He says do and do it.

God bless you sis

He's a false teacher and if he is not all the teachings I have ever heard come out of his mouth in the name of Jesus and under the influence of the "Spirit" has been false. He preaches a completely man-centered gospel (which the Holy Spirit will have no part in) and I have seen him on TV prophesyin money b/c God gave him that "annointing"...nowhere in Scripture. He may be a swell and even educated guy, but his teaching is not Holy Spirit inspired b/c his "gospel" teaching is too man-centered to come from someone who truly has a heart burning for Jesus Christ.
Here are a couple of stupid "inspired" quotes (Compare to scriptures and you will see this nowhere)

Myles Munroe: "That's why angel's need our permission to function. It says they are here to do our bidding. They can't even act without our permission, you see. (But, here's the bigger statement:) Even God Himself is illegal on earth. Why? Because, He is a spirit and the law He set up by His own mouth was that only spirits with bodies can function on earth legally.

Myles Munroe
"Let me define prayer for you in this show. Prayer is man giving God permission or license to interfere in earth's affairs. In other words, prayer is earthly license for heavenly interference."

Myles Munroe
"Heaven depends on earth for interference. If He [God] could just find two people like you [Benny Hinn] and I to agree. We agree for God to do this thing. Then God says, 'Thank you very much for permission!'

Myles Munroe
"Our prayer is a strange experience. We normally ask God to do things, God is telling us to command Him permission to do it for us."

Having been brought up in the Bahamas which was a British colony, it seems our Lord used that experience to show him what a kingdom is and how it functions. i grew up in Zimbabwe which was a British colony but by then it was an independant nation.

bro Ron

How old is he? The Bahamas became an independent nation in 1973 and Zimbabwe in 1980. Britain and its dominions never operated as a true kingdom from the 17th century or earlier.

probably in his late 40s or 50s or so. for me in learning a bit about the history of the U.K. growing up, it is interesting to see how that kingdom functioned vs how democracy functions. some of the concepts i heard him speak about were very interesting and give a different view of the Kingdom of God as than some people probably had.

edit

some of the things he mentioned made sense to me (then again i'm not the brightest of the bunch) for example, the servants of the kingdom as the go to a colony are there to bring that kingdom to the colony. for example before the British came along, we in zimbabwe didn't drink tea, dress in suits or speak English, but then that changed. we being servants of the Most High have that responsibilty by spreading the gospel and discipling. i guess to me that is the big thing, the changing of people. Britain may not have behaved like a true kingdom (whatever that means) from the 17th century or earlier, however they certainly did influence every part of the world they were in, in very profound ways. in this regard i agree with Myles Munroe, as servants of the King, we should indeed influence the people around us in the way God would have us do.

bro Provost

He's a false teacher and if he is not all the teachings I have ever heard come out of his mouth in the name of Jesus and under the influence of the "Spirit" has been false. He preaches a completely man-centered gospel (which the Holy Spirit will have no part in) and I have seen him on TV prophesyin money b/c God gave him that "annointing"...nowhere in Scripture. He may be a swell and even educated guy, but his teaching is not Holy Spirit inspired b/c his "gospel" teaching is too man-centered to come from someone who truly has a heart burning for Jesus Christ.

an interesting perspective. how is his "gospel" "man centred?"

Myles Munroe: "That's why angel's need our permission to function. It says they are here to do our bidding. They can't even act without our permission, you see. (But, here's the bigger statement:) Even God Himself is illegal on earth. Why? Because, He is a spirit and the law He set up by His own mouth was that only spirits with bodies can function on earth legally.

so how does God work on earth now?

Myles MunroeLet me define prayer for you in this show. Prayer is man giving God permission or license to interfere in earth's affairs. In other words, prayer is earthly license for heavenly interference."

if we don't pray, what happens?

"Heaven depends on earth for interference. If He [God] could just find two people like you [Benny Hinn] and I to agree. We agree for God to do this thing. Then God says, 'Thank you very much for permission!'

if God has in mind to do something through you, could He do it without your compliance?

Our prayer is a strange experience. We normally ask God to do things, God is telling us to command Him permission to do it for us."

if God wants His will done here, should we not line up with what He wants to do? can He do this without our compliance?

I think this is a case where we need sound judgment and good biblical discernment.

From what I know, Myles seems to misunderstand the distinction between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven... and the fact that many of the things promised to those in the Kingdom of God are for a later time, after the resurrection of the saints. Remember that the Kingdom of God is not about food and drink, but about righteousness, peace and joy, in the holy ghost.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Myles teaches that our place in God's Kingdom gives us rights here on earth to be movers and shakers. But in relation to the here and now, the Kingdom of God is invisible, it is the spiritual place we enter in submission to the King to surrender our will and submit ourselves to His will. We learn servitude... not to reign at this time. The Kingdom resides within the heart and soul of true believers. In the present tense, it is not a Kingdom of Dominant kings, but of humble and meek servants. "The meek SHALL inherit the earth" at a later time, after Christ returns.

Remember that Christ did not come to conquere the Romans, but to conquere sin on our behalf. He says to us, "follow my example..."

The New Testament model in this Kingdom for the church on earth is to follow the example of Christ and to suffer for his namesake. As Christians, we have not been called to dominate society and claim it all with arrogant decrees, but to take up our cross and proclaim the gospel. I suspect that Myles Monroe teaching caters more to those who want power and authority rather than servitude and suffering.

From what I've seen and heard, it's about claiming things and taking things and demanding for things to happen in society that will bring about change and righteousness in the world. But changing society and politics is not what Christ came to do. We should be focusing on the Great Commission, not changing the world.

In relation to our heavenly reward, our objective is not to TAKE dominon of the earth but to look forward to the blessed hope which is the ressurrection of the saints and dwelling with the Lord. It's not until we get to heaven that there will be no more tears, pain, sorrow, etc... We don't use the law to enforce righteousness on society, but as a schoolmaster to show them their need for Christ. We're supposed to be humble servants, not proud possessors. In this church age, Christians are persecuted, put to death, or maligned for their beliefs and lifestyle. The Bible does not support a time when the church will dominate government and society before Christ's return. These claims are in complete opposition to end time prophecy.

One thing Myles says that I do agree with is that we need to realize we are occupants of a Kingdom, not members of a religion. However, I do suspect it is very close, if not complete Dominion theology.

it is interesting to see how that kingdom functioned vs how democracy functions. some of the concepts i heard him speak about were very interesting and give a different view of the Kingdom of God as than some people probably had.

Hey Ironman

First I want to say that I recently got out of a church that taught crazy authority, dominion, commanding God, and so forth. It's is nuts and a truly warped theology. The only verse that I could get out of the members of the church, that we could command God was Isaiah 45:11..and in this verse God is disgusted with Israel that they are trying to tell Him what to do(not to mention those verses were for the Jews not the Christian church). But the church ran like they had scissors with the fact that God says "command ye me"

Okay Myles Munroes "man-centered gospel"
Every time I have ever heard Myles speak (10 or so times) the only time Jesus is mentioned is "in Jesus name". He gets loud and excited about whatever worldly issue he is preaching on, but loud and excited is not the annointing (it can be, but an emotional show during a sermon can never be the sign that someone's annointed. The clear exaltation of Christ is the sign of the annointing)
I guess reading what I typed could be very subjective. This is what I would challenge any Christian to do with Dr. Munroe (or any teacher for that fact). Read a Chapter of his books and compare it to Scripture. Would Paul have approved of his writings/teachings? I took the teachings I was taught at my past church (we used to watch Dr. Munroe tapes as well) to the Bible and they never lined up with the totality of Scripture. They could point to a verse or two..but never did it line up with the Truth. And I never heard Myles Munroe say anything that exalted Christ in the same manner that the Apostle Paul was in chains for.

2nd... All the prayer questions... A thought that made me think that "God couldn't do anything unless He was commanded" was stupid was this. God is the only one who can justly judge. God is the one who can pour out wrath. God is also the one who holds the entire order of the world. So here's the thought...If God needs to be commanded then someone needed to command God to produce Hurrican Katrina. If Katrina was a human's idea that person would be sick! God in no way needs to be commanded. This cannot be found in the Bible and can be found nowhere in the history of the church. Thanx Ironman for listening and God Bless

Hebrews 1:3The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

Colossians 1:17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Provost wrote:
"man-centered gospel"

Not to hijack this thread but I posted a thread called "Tony Evans" in the Lounge and he says that it's a sin not to attend Church.

I just don't understand if all these Pastors mentality's of the Gospel are for tickling ears or if their mindset has a what best for me attitude.

Peter wrote these words to elders who would have been familiar with sheep and shepherding:

I exhort the elders among you ... shepherd the flock of God ... exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock. And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory (1 Peter 5:1-4).

Why can't Pastors get back to doing what the Word "Really" says I just don't understand, maybe it's just a part of the end times that supposed to happen, Tony Evans talks about how it's a sin not to attend Church, well until I can find a Pastor that really knows how to feed the sheep I will just attend my Home Church, guess Mr. Evans will have to answer to the Lord one day for his own ideas of feeding the sheep.

Trying to make folks feel under condemnation for not attending Church is wrong, maybe if Tony would start preaching Gods word and not Tony's word more folks would be happy to attend Church.
:-(

bro Ron

The UK is not really a kingdom and hasn't been for centuries. It is a democracy with a constitutional monarchy. That means our queen reigns but does not rule; it is really a pseudo-kingdom.

true, which is why i said kingdom functioned (past tense) as opposed to how the U.K. is now.

bro Hydrated

I think this is a case where we need sound judgment and good biblical discernment.

indeed!

From what I know, Myles seems to misunderstand the distinction between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven... and the fact that many of the things promised to those in the Kingdom of God are for a later time, after the resurrection of the saints. Remember that the Kingdom of God is not about food and drink, but about righteousness, peace and joy, in the holy ghost.

but we do have righteousness, peace and Joy in the Holy Ghost now right?

Correct me if I'm wrong but Myles teaches that our place in God's Kingdom gives us rights here on earth to be movers and shakers. But in relation to the here and now, the Kingdom of God is invisible, it is the spiritual place we enter in submission to the King to surrender our will and submit ourselves to His will. We learn servitude... not to reign at this time. The Kingdom resides within the heart and soul of true believers. In the present tense, it is not a Kingdom of Dominant kings, but of humble and meek servants. "The meek SHALL inherit the earth" at a later time, after Christ returns.

i see that part differently. i feel that being servants of God here by default will make us movers and shakers. not in the worldly sense but rather i'm looking at what happened when Christ submitted to God and did what the Father required of Him. the world was changed forever. the apostles and early church as servants of God and His kingdom turned the world upside down and nothing has been the same since...the moving and shaking however was not to benefit themselves or their flesh in the fulfilment of fleshly ambitions but unto the glory of God. that's how we're movers and shakers...the meek servant is the one who gets the most done i think. that testimony of obedience to God is most powerful, look at Christ and His obedience even unto death and how powerful that was/is.

Remember that Christ did not come to conquere the Romans, but to conquere sin on our behalf. He says to us, "follow my example..."

true, although Christ did take over the lives of those who gave themselves to Him. i guess the gospel in a way does go forth and conquer since it is in opposition to the enemy.

The New Testament model in this Kingdom for the church on earth is to follow the example of Christ and to suffer for his namesake. As Christians, we have not been called to dominate society and claim it all with arrogant decrees, but to take up our cross and proclaim the gospel. I suspect that Myles Monroe teaching caters more to those who want power and authority rather than servitude and suffering.

indeed you're right here that we are called to suffer for Him. however it seems to me that to so suffer has a very profound effect on those around us and an uncanny way of being a part of winning men to Christ. Some people do want power and authority as the world defines it, by force and through force but our power is through yielding. i'm unsure that myles munroe may be catering to people who desire power on earth as the world defines it, but i bless God for showing me what He has through him.

From what I've seen and heard, it's about claiming things and taking things and demanding for things to happen in society that will bring about change and righteousness in the world. But changing society and politics is not what Christ came to do. We should be focusing on the Great Commission, not changing the world.

the great commission to me [i][b]is[/b][/i] to change the world by preaching Christ, repentance and righteousness. it may not win someone an election to high office but it has a mighty effect on the world.

In relation to our heavenly reward, our objective is not to TAKE dominon of the earth but to look forward to the blessed hope which is the ressurrection of the saints and dwelling with the Lord. It's not until we get to heaven that there will be no more tears, pain, sorrow, etc... We don't use the law to enforce righteousness on society, but as a schoolmaster to show them their need for Christ. We're supposed to be humble servants, not proud possessors. In this church age, Christians are persecuted, put to death, or maligned for their beliefs and lifestyle. The Bible does not support a time when the church will dominate government and society before Christ's return. These claims are in complete opposition to end time prophecy.

i agree that we're not to take dominion of the world as the world exercises dominion, by force but we know that by spreading the gospel, the world is changed. indeed we must strive on as meek servants, doing all that is required of us. i agree that we shall have total dominion over the earth at His return and not before.

I've read a couple of books by Myles Munroe many years ago as well as seen a few videos of his teachings.

While I'm unsure if he has the correct perspective on everything he says, I would be hesitant to label him as a false teacher in the sense of deliberately spreading a false gospel.

A lot of the arguments raised against him depends on individual understanding and interpretation of scripture. I think there are a lot of genuinely saved, "pro-Christ" Christians on Sermon Index, however you'll find that they have a wide spectrum of viewpoints on a lot of biblical topics.

The real question should be "In relation to God's Harvest, is he gathering for Christ, or is he spreading?" If he is gathering, we would do good to leave him in peace and let him get on with his work.

On one of the tapes I saw of Myles Munroe, he was addressing a large pastors conference and preaching on misuse of authority in the church. One of the points raised was that a true leader produced other leaders, not pidgeon-holed followers.

The church leaders who were present were obviously very worried with the impact this would have on their "pidgeons" and showed strong (although indirect) reactions to the message.

They couldn't say anything against him as he had obviously been invited as an international speaker, and I don't think he was aware of what was happening since he was speaking through a translator.

It would seem that God was using him to address the real issues of that group without him even being aware it.

PassingThru

bro provost
thanks for writing back. i asked what i asked so that i could have a better understanding of this man and what his deal is. like i said, there are some things which he has said which have made sense to me and i've learned from.

it seems to me that there are some things which God does without our consent but yet there are others which require our compliance. God didn't ask any of us to let Him allow Christ to die for our sins, but we have to actively repent.

Every time I have ever heard Myles speak (10 or so times) the only time Jesus is mentioned is "in Jesus name". He gets loud and excited about whatever worldly issue he is preaching on, but loud and excited is not the annointing (it can be, but an emotional show during a sermon can never be the sign that someone's annointed. The clear exaltation of Christ is the sign of the annointing)

I guess reading what I typed could be very subjective. This is what I would challenge any Christian to do with Dr. Munroe (or any teacher for that fact). Read a Chapter of his books and compare it to Scripture. Would Paul have approved of his writings/teachings? I took the teachings I was taught at my past church (we used to watch Dr. Munroe tapes as well) to the Bible and they never lined up with the totality of Scripture. They could point to a verse or two..but never did it line up with the Truth. And I never heard Myles Munroe say anything that exalted Christ in the same manner that the Apostle Paul was in chains for.

indeed to be excited may be a fleshly response but there are some in which this is not the case. as far as worldly issues go, we can't escape them and they need to be dealt with as God shows us how. it is not right to focus on and deal with them in a worldly way, but on the flip side, we ought not be ignorant of what is going on and how we are affected by it. i agree with you in that we should test all things. i'm unsure Paul would approve, but the question is "does God approve?"

2nd... All the prayer questions... A thought that made me think that "God couldn't do anything unless He was commanded" was stupid was this. God is the only one who can justly judge. God is the one who can pour out wrath. God is also the one who holds the entire order of the world. So here's the thought...If God needs to be commanded then someone needed to command God to produce Hurrican Katrina. If Katrina was a human's idea that person would be sick! God in no way needs to be commanded. This cannot be found in the Bible and can be found nowhere in the history of the church. Thanx Ironman for listening and God Bless

i think of elijah and how he told ahab that there would be no rain except at his word.it didn't rain. indeed God judges rightly but if one walks closely to Him, does one not also see rightly as God does? was elijah sick or was he one who knew God intimately enough to know what God intended to do and call it forth as God led him?

See the Elijah issue is something that always bothered me. I would always be told that we have to power to not make it rain. Yet, when you look at the situation...Elijah almost died due to lack of water. The fact that it didn't rain was not just on the power of his prayer. Elijah had a dependence that the Lord would carry him until His appropriate time for rain.
I see that as a problem with Dr. Munroes teaching. Too often the insight is on what is the power of your faith...and that's wrong...the power we have is only on the amount we depend on the One who holds all power.
I know I may sound like a negative guy. I have been told by many.."we have to let so and so preach this or that I mean look he is getting converts"(or somethin like that) My issue is that if they are not preaching the doctrine and theology clearly laid down in Scripture is the convert true. I saw Jesse Duplantis have an alter call that brought hundreds. His message was a ridiculous mockery of the pulpit followed by a freak show that could be found nowhere in Scripture. Now I pray that those people came into the Glorious kingdom of God, but I fear that many were just reacting to an outpour of emotion.
I am a young Christian and I know I have a future of being wrong. But I am a young Christian who refuses to listen to anyone (My Pastor included) unless they line up with the totality of Scripture. I know that on every point we may not agree, but that's okay as long as the theology preached lines up with the message the Holy Spirit laid down in the Bible. This I know for sure that if I was to hold up the messages of Myles Munroe and held it next to the Bible they would look like they came from two different books.
As far as God approving of Dr. Munroe. God will not stand for anyone who preaches something foreign to the Bible in Jesus' name.

Thanx again for the listening
Lots of Love
Thom

bro Thom

See the Elijah issue is something that always bothered me. I would always be told that we have to power to not make it rain. Yet, when you look at the situation...Elijah almost died due to lack of water. The fact that it didn't rain was not just on the power of his prayer. Elijah had a dependence that the Lord would carry him until His appropriate time for rain.

the Elijah issue doesn't bother me in the least. Elijah knew God well enough to know what sort of retribution was coming and he knew His part in bringing that through. He told ahab about it. it didn't rain for 2 yrs was it? i wouldn't say Elijah almost died, the word doesn't say anything other than our Lord sent ravens to feed him and he drank out of the brook until it almost ran dry.

I see that as a problem with Dr. Munroes teaching. Too often the insight is on what is the power of your faith...and that's wrong...the power we have is only on the amount we depend on the One who holds all power.

if the faith he is talking about is that same faith of Christ which He had in the Father, then i'm all in. Christ depended on the Father who had all power and the Father sustained Him, if we have the same Faith what could we not achieve?

I know I may sound like a negative guy. I have been told by many.."we have to let so and so preach this or that I mean look he is getting converts"(or somethin like that) My issue is that if they are not preaching the doctrine and theology clearly laid down in Scripture is the convert true. I saw Jesse Duplantis have an alter call that brought hundreds. His message was a ridiculous mockery of the pulpit followed by a freak show that could be found nowhere in Scripture. Now I pray that those people came into the Glorious kingdom of God, but I fear that many were just reacting to an outpour of emotion.

on the one hand, we ought to correct false teaching, no doubt. on the flip side, God seems not to be hindered by it. sometimes the preacher may be off, by if Holy Spirit takes hold of someone, He's not letting go. like Paul said, some preach to get a name for themselves and other things but he rejoiced that Christ was preached anyway. Paul knew the power of that name Jesus Christ.the first place i heard about christ was in the catholic church. there are all sorts of warped doctrines in it but God was not hindered in His effort to bring me to salvation. ultimately, each man is to eck out his own salvation with fear and trembling like Paul said.

I am a young Christian and I know I have a future of being wrong. But I am a young Christian who refuses to listen to anyone (My Pastor included) unless they line up with the totality of Scripture. I know that on every point we may not agree, but that's okay as long as the theology preached lines up with the message the Holy Spirit laid down in the Bible. This I know for sure that if I was to hold up the messages of Myles Munroe and held it next to the Bible they would look like they came from two different books.

and being a young christian i'm sure you also understand that you may not have the corner on the meaning of all scripture and in some things you may be wrong. as a result you may misunderstand the things which some are saying. this is why i love S.I. in the beauty of this fellowship, God can teach us through eachother and polish us into shining diamonds from the lumps of coal we are.

3 quick responses
1. The movement Myles Munroe is in has warped the kind of faith Christ had. When your hear him talk about force faith, it's way off, and to not see that is way off.
2. God can use any kind of teaching to get the Holy Spirist in. I went to a nutso church, but they got me into the Bible. Still God does have a problem with people distoring His Word. Even if they get a few converts God will hold them accountable for perverting His Word.
3. I know I do not know everything, but like I said I know that if I held a Bible up to his teachings I would not be able to tell where Myles Munroe received his revelation. Where then did he get his revelations? That was an issue I pondered as I watched his teachings at old studies. I was always told he had deeper revelation that others ever had, but I think that's weird as well (the mormons have a deeper revelation too).
Help me polish up I know I need it. But I only want to listen to people who truly are searching the face of Christ(not saying your not IRONMAN you have been making me think I like that). I get nervous when people start commanding God for passing things (money, increas, etc), and preach subjects that take the focus off Christ and on to what you can force your faith to do.
In Him
Thom

I have never heard of this Munroe guy. What I have heard of is the word of faith movement. The teachings from this crowd are so far off that they are anathema to me. The scriptures clearly warn against false teachers, does it not follow then that not all teaching is sound? It falls on us to have discernment then of what is true and what is false. This discernment can only come through the Holy Spirit. Nothing any of us here can say will convince those who don't see the errors of word of faith doctrine of those errors. For anyone who does not understand why I am condemning this false teaching, I suggest only that you get on your face before the Lord and ask Him to lead you into all truth.

Benny Hinn is part of this word of faith movement, and I distrust anyone who appears along side him on his show, for they are, by their appearence, standing with him and his false doctrine.

If anyone wants to understand more regarding the erroneous teachings of Benny Hinn and his ilk, may I suggest reading Christianity in Crisis.

I know how black and white my statements have been. Scripture states that we must speak the truth...in love. Hopefully I have the correct motives in writing these words. I do not write to condemn anyone here, but out of a true concern for your walk with our Precious Lord and Savior.

In His Love

Doug

edit:spelling
edit addition: A little leaven leavens the whole loaf.

bro Provost
i agree that God holds the teachers accountable for their words. He holds us all accountable for our words, our every word in fact. My point is we should indeed filter everything through scripture, not scripture as we understand it, but as revealed by Holy Spirit. Who better to reveal scripture to us than Holy Spirit Himself since He wrote it. You and i have probably said some things way out of line concerning God out of ignorance but does that mean we are rendered useless as far as God is concerned. Too often we write people off because they say something we disagree with (sometimes we are right to disagree) but we forget that we have done the same and yet God has shown us mercy and uses us still. This is where we ought to be careful and filter everything through the word, take it before God and let Him try it to see if it is of Him or not. i never said i agreed with everything Myles Munroe said but that some of the things i heard from him made all the sense in the world after i sought God about them and He put them into the proper context for me.

people could say after listening to you or me that they didn't know where we got our revelation from. does that invalidate what we know God has shown us? no, it means (assuming God did in fact give us revelation) that the others haven't yet received the revelation. Sometimes our perception even through scripture is warped and we see some things poorly because our perception is just that, our perception rather than viewing things through the eyes of God Himself.

Help me polish up I know I need it. But I only want to listen to people who truly are searching the face of Christ(not saying your not IRONMAN you have been making me think I like that). I get nervous when people start commanding God for passing things (money, increas, etc), and preach subjects that take the focus off Christ and on to what you can force your faith to do.

this is what i love about S.I. we can all get polished. i've not held a gun to your head and made you do anything. you decided on your own based on what i said that you may think i'm not after the Face of God. i assure you i am. i don't think that it is a bad thing to ask God for increase in passing things provided the purpose is for the benefit of the Body which is the Glorification of God. God doesn't just meet our spiritual needs, He tends to our physical needs also. Some people ask God for increase to satisfy their fleshly lusts (self-benefit) and we can agree this is wrong. How is asking for God's provision in the physical not seeking His face? Because it benefits man? do you think that man is the final beneficiary in that situaton? God is because He gets the glory, men see God tending to their physical needs and that draws men in. have you every tried preaching the gospel to someone who is hungry and yet you have nothing to offer him? God has been showing me about this very thing in connection with the business ventures He's showing me about. at first i was concerned about how it would look. i didn't see the connection to the gospel until i began to see that this is part of the ministry God has for me. God is not solely in the business of tending to spiritual needs, He tends to physical ones also.

like i said, i never said i agreed with everything Myles Munroe said, but some of the things he has said make sense to me since Holy Spirit put it into the proper context. i'm conceding here that Myles Munroe may have miscommunicated perfectly scriptural principle because of seeing them in the wrong light.

brethren
you know, there is something to be said about the word of faith concept. note i said concept not movement. The word of faith is calling out those things that are not as though they are. some may say, name it and claim it, blab and grab or whatever. here is the deal. When God said "light be" that was speaking the word of faith. there was no light and even though this was the fact, God rebuked it and called light though it was not into being and so it was. The miracles which were done by our Lord, the ones in which He spoke something contrary to what was are an exercise in the word of Faith in its truest sense. the word of Faith is speaking forth those things which are not as though they were (a rebuking of what is) in as much as it lines up with what God is doing. if you speak forth things out of your own selfish desires then that is abuse and is obviously wrong. there are those who teach and pratice this and this is in gross error. i agree with you in standing against such erroneous teaching, however, lets not toss out the baby with the bathwater here and lets see the Word of Faith in the context of what God has done,is doing and looking to do now and in the future.

Benny Hinn is part of this word of faith movement, and I distrust anyone who appears along side him on his show, for they are, by their appearence, standing with him and his false doctrine.

let us be clear, not every one of us is right all the time so by the same token, we should apply this to ourselves. if we did then we'd all stop listening to eachother because all of us have been wrong at some point about some thing about God. The thing is to filter everything throuh God and His word, not our perception of Him and His word but Him and His word. for example, this word of faith movement. is the way they are teaching wrong, sure it is, however the concept of the Word of Faith upon viewing it in the proper context makes all the sense in the world. i don't listen much to benny hinn, every now and then though i'll catch someone on TBN, maybe Jakes, or even Paula White and God will have me tune in and teach me something through them. sure sometimes they miscommunicate certain concepts or mangle them altogether but i bless God for His Holy Spirit who communicates perfectly and unmangles things so they are clear in the proper context of what God is working out. i'm sure we have at some point miscommunicated and mangled things but God has straightened them out in the mind of whoever is listening. it's like digging for gold, in some places gold is easy to find, in others, there is a lot of soil and rock and other waste which must be removed first. i don't go searching for these people in the hopes of finding anything, but at times our Lord leads me to certain ones for certain things which i take hold of and then move on.

I know how black and white my statements have been. Scripture states that we must speak the truth...in love. Hopefully I have the correct motives in writing these words. I do not write to condemn anyone here, but out of a true concern for your walk with our Precious Lord and Savior.

i feel your motives are indeed right and the word is black and white cocnerning this. however we ought to be careful in our application. one ought not to dismiss someone totally over wrong teaching. the wrong teaching itself must be dismissed lest we all dismiss eachother. There is one thing which must also be shone forth, Mercy. God has showed us mercy in spite of ourselves and it is only right that we show it to others.

[size=x-small][color=000099]2Cr 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ. [/color]

[/size][color=000099]2Cr 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. [/color]

[color=000099]Phl 3:18-19 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, [that they are] the enemies of the cross of Christ:Whose end [is] destruction, whose God [is their] belly, and [whose] glory [is] in their shame, who mind earthly things.) [/color]

These are strong words from the apostle Paul. Those who twist and pervert the word of God are still with us today. I have not recently studied word of faith teachings, I turned away from it years ago. Therefore I cannot refute their teaching in any specific manner. My objection to them is based on the aformentioned book "Christianity in Crisis". This book has many quotes from these "men of God" that would turn the stomach of any true believer. If I still had this book I would dig some out and post them. If anyone does have this book, would you be willing to post a few of these quotes? I apoligize to you brother for taking such an uncompromising view on this. But I have very strong convictions on this matter.

Again, it would be easy to be offended by my stance. If you knew someone who was considering the teachings of Joseph Smith and did not understand how unbiblical they were would you not feel it your duty to warn them? Would you be speaking to them out of condemnation or love?

In all sincerity and care,

and as always, In His Love,

Doug

Before I start Ironman I never wanted to say that you were not seeking the face of Christ. I even tried showing that in my response

First concept that is wrong about the word faith movement is the concept that they can call things that be not as though they were. Romans 4:17 Hebrews 1:3 and Colossians 1:17 go against people being the callers or creators.
2nd is they will say well we can b/c Scripture says we are a little lower than God. How stupid (no nice way of putting it)! To be a little lower than God is to be infinately lower than God.
My problem with TBN is the disgusting abuse of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The only thing the Holy Spirit has shown me in TBN was exactly how His gifts are perverted and abused. I believe in the gifts and that they are for today. In my studies so far in Scripture you couldn't tell me otherwise, but you also could never tell me that the freakshows sponsered by the word faith movement are Holy Spirit inspired (i.e. send money and we'll pray over a towel, screaming shaking a falling after prayer, or laughing like someone who should be locked up)
He would not dare to belittle Christ in such a manner.
TBN is a big fan of saying well everyone is wrong sometimes...But to have your teachings foreign to Scriptures (99% of the time i.e Paula White day in and out commanding $ and preaching send first fruits to me if you want to be blessed) is sick and leading people astray and converting people to a Christ never seen in the Bible.
I am not taking salvation away from anyone. I am also not heresy who refuses to let the Spirit move. But I know that while seeking the face of God the Holy Spirit clearly lead me away from the teachings seen in the Word Faith movement. I can thank the Lord that He opened my eyes and freed me from the bondage of their false teachings

While in my old church I personally did research on everyone we are in covenant with and I have 20 pages of bogus quotes if anyone is interested hit me up thom@closing.shorewest.com
also here are some videos of people under the "influence of the Spirit"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjujnAs-6tM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piHJxXhDTuw&NR

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1309655344938122063&q=kenneth+copeland&hl=en

I will fight for my faith. I also promise you all I am not a pharisee. But I can not stand when Christ is represented in this manner. If people want $ or an emotional high they can get that without Christ. I want everyday to show people how the life of Christ in more than anything imaginable and to see these acts and teachings in the name of Christ mourns me.
Thom

bro Doug

These are strong words from the apostle Paul. Those who twist and pervert the word of God are still with us today. I have not recently studied word of faith teachings, I turned away from it years ago. Therefore I cannot refute their teaching in any specific manner. My objection to them is based on the aformentioned book "Christianity in Crisis". This book has many quotes from these "men of God" that would turn the stomach of any true believer. If I still had this book I would dig some out and post them. If anyone does have this book, would you be willing to post a few of these quotes? I apoligize to you brother for taking such an uncompromising view on this. But I have very strong convictions on this matter.

i agree, i'm not saying we should follow after the word of faith movement teachings. i'm saying there is something to be said about the Word of Faith, namely professing something which isn't as though it were. i know the wof has some corruption to it. i would ask though is it any worse than the corruption we have in our own hearts sometimes? anyhow i'm not for the twisting of scripture in anywise bro, you and me are agreed on that. im just saying that the profession of the Word of Faith as it lines up with what God is doing, note that what God is doing doesn't please our flesh and this is not what i'm advocating.

Again, it would be easy to be offended by my stance. If you knew someone who was considering the teachings of Joseph Smith and did not understand how unbiblical they were would you not feel it your duty to warn them? Would you be speaking to them out of condemnation or love?

i'm not offended bro. you're misunderstanding what i'm saying it seems. i'm not saying we ought not to warn people of false doctrines. we should, however we should also not be so blind to our own failures that we begin to perceive that if someone is wrong on one thing, he is wrong on all things. if we did this, we certainly wouldn't be able to learn from eachother at all.

{quotes}

I just don't understand if all these Pastors mentality's of the Gospel are for tickling ears or if their mindset has a what best for me attitude.

Peter wrote these words to elders who would have been familiar with sheep and shepherding:

I exhort the elders among you ... shepherd the flock of God ... exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily,
.....................

{quote}

My point is we should indeed filter everything through scripture, not scripture as we understand it, but as revealed by Holy Spirit.
......................

These are very important quotes to pick up on.

I heard Myles speak a couple of times. He is a motivation speaker. I don't know this for sure but, I'm pretty sure he makes his living speaking in he secular world as a motivation speaker in the business world as a profession. He also writes many books to sell and has them for sale when he speaks at events. I haven't read any but some sounded interesting. He is a graduate from Oral Roberts and has a doctorate, probably theology.

peace, mercy, and grace
GaryE

bro Provost
i should have titled my initial statement "on The Word of Faith" to emphasize that it is not related to the movement by the same name. i'm not advocating what the teach or do.

First concept that is wrong about the word faith movement is the concept that they can call things that be not as though they were. Romans 4:17 Hebrews 1:3 and Colossians 1:17 go against people being the callers or creators.

ah, now i took a look at that scripture and it is speaking to God being the only one able to create out of nothing. it seems i used a poor expression to get my point across and thus caused confusion. forgive me brethren. i was using that expression in the context of for example, when Peter told that lame man to get up and walk in Acts chapter 3, that man was lame and Peter told him to get up and walk as though he could even though the man was lame. that's what i mean by the Word of Faith. Furthermore Peter said what he did under inspiration and unction from Holy Spirit otherwise it wouldn't have happened. it seems the wof movement is in error concerning this concept. clearly we see Peter here saying something which isn't as though it were, note he was under unction and didn't do it for his own glorification, but rather to the Father's and the Father saw to it that his request was carried out. see what i mean now? or perhaps you have a better phrase i could use rather than Word of Faith, wouldn't want to cause any further confusion.

2nd is they will say well we can b/c Scripture says we are a little lower than God. How stupid (no nice way of putting it)! To be a little lower than God is to be infinately lower than God.

first, we're made a little lower than the angels who themselves are below God, not sure that they are infinately below HIm, after all they dwell with Him in heaven. don't know of a scripture verse which speaks to that.

My problem with TBN is the disgusting abuse of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The only thing the Holy Spirit has shown me in TBN was exactly how His gifts are perverted and abused. I believe in the gifts and that they are for today. In my studies so far in Scripture you couldn't tell me otherwise, but you also could never tell me that the freakshows sponsered by the word faith movement are Holy Spirit inspired (i.e. send money and we'll pray over a towel, screaming shaking a falling after prayer, or laughing like someone who should be locked up)

oh i agree with you bro. the gifts operate today as they did in the days of old, and they are for us more so since we are the terminal generation. indeed there are excesses on TBN, even so there is much i have learned there also. Just like if i got to know you better, i'd find some things wrong (as you would about me) but nonetheless i'm after whatever it is God may have for me through you to His glory such that i don't cut you off at the first sign of error. of course i don't buy into some of the crazy things they do on TBN but i bless God all the same for what He has shown me through some of the ones on there.

TBN is a big fan of saying well everyone is wrong sometimes...But to have your teachings foreign to Scriptures (99% of the time i.e Paula White day in and out commanding $ and preaching send first fruits to me if you want to be blessed) is sick and leading people astray and converting people to a Christ never seen in the Bible.

Paula White does say some off the wall things, but as it pertained to the firstfruits teaching i heard from her, i sought God and He didn't have me send her the money, He had me put it somewhere else. not for the purpose of gaining anything, i already knew He was going to bless that offering as He saw fit, but it was a matter of obedience. when God has me give to people, i know it will come back, that's a guarantee but the impetus to give is because i know what it is to lack and when God sent someone to tend to that lack, it was like getting a hug from Him so i want to pass that on. again there is a physical benefit of course but the ultimate benefit is when people see the hand of God working through someone to meet a need, God gets the glory. If we give and so seed out of greed, we will always be disappointed. we ought to sow to tend to our brother's need because it is only right, after all, has God not so moved someone to tend to our own needs?

I am not taking salvation away from anyone. I am also not heresy who refuses to let the Spirit move. But I know that while seeking the face of God the Holy Spirit clearly lead me away from the teachings seen in the Word Faith movement. I can thank the Lord that He opened my eyes and freed me from the bondage of their false teachings

praise God for that. like i said, i'm no advocate for crazy teachings. the wof movement indeed has some excesses which should be avoided. i don't know a whole lot about their movement, you do though so you know what to avoid. however like i said, there is yet something to be said about saying something which isn't as if it was like telling a dead person to rise from the dead, assuming of course God led you to do so.

i hope that clears things up

Provost:

I would not be so bold as a call someone a false teacher! Did you ever say something that turned out to be wrong? Chances are you have. Should we label you, cast you aside and call you false because you might have made a mistake?

I have several books by Myles Munroe and a VHS tape. I find his messages very credible. From my vantage point you have a very limited view to what a Christian is and how a Christian is supposed to conduct themselves in this world.

You say that we are servants; but the Word says we ARE SONS! Gal 4:5-6 (written by Paul) "To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of SONS. And because ye ARE SONS, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father." Sons have rights that servants do not have!

Gal 3:13 (written by Paul)says that we ARE redeemed from the curse of the Law, and under the blessing of Abraham. Being under the blessing means that we should NOT be sick, poor, or suffer calamities. That means I can speak to situations, circumstances and sicknesses as a son of God and demand that they change based on the Word of God!

Col 1:13 (written by Paul) says, that we are redeemed from the power of darkness and translated into the Kingdom of Gods dear Son. That means the devil has no right to come against us. If he does, then we can rebuke him based on the Word of God.

Rom 8:14-17 (written by Paul) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they ARE the SONS of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage (SERVANTS) again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we ARE the children of God: And if children, then HEIRS; HEIRS of God, and JOINT-HEIRS with Christ..." Servants are NOT made heirs, sons are!

I could go on with more scriptures. These few are just examples of how Myles Munroe does agree with Paul. We do have authority, rights and privileges as CHILDREN OF GOD!

Jesus said that "all authority was given to Him in heaven and earth", but remember we are His body! He is the head, and we are everything from the neck down. If He has authority and we are His body and joint heirs with Him, then we have that same authority!

You need to go back and read the New Testament again with the Kingdom and Sonship in mind. You will see the NT in a whole new light.

Christian do suffer, but it is temptations and persecutions for the cause of Christ that they suffer. For instance, I am to 'suffer it' if I am attacked for preaching or witnessing, But if someone was to attack me for the purpose of robbery or murder, then there is nothing in that bible that says I cannot defend myself or my family!

Christian meekness does NOT mean Christian weakness!

Dan

Here is the website of his church, I do not endorse anything represented there.
www.bfmmm.com
1Th 5:12 But we beseech you, brethren, to know them that labor among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;
Blessings Greg :-o

I have read this entire thread and the only thing I would like to add is you will know them by their fruit and know them that labor amoung you.

It is very difficult to know a TV preacher. You only see what the view finder shows you. How do they live their lives?

When I watch these men and women I am looking for more than words, I am looking for character. Do they speak with humility and brokeness or are they arrogant and cocky? Does their heart bleed for the lost, is that evidenced in what comes across.

I will tell you a forinstance. I saw Tommy Tenney on TBN one night and he was pleading with the audience about intimacy with God being the main thing we need. The host kept changing the subject and finally Tommy wept because of the condition of the body of Christ. His brokeness was very evident. It wasn't fake.

I have to say I can barely watch "Christian" TV any more. It is so boastful and arrogant for the most part. I see very little of the "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls", type of christianity. In fact most of it makes me sick.

I will not dog a fellow believer however, but I will say we need to see what image they project. Is the fruit of the spirit manifest through their teaching?

[color=6600CC]Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [/color]
[color=6600CC]Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. [/color]

I also have a problem with many of these ministries milking the sheep to line their own pockets. How much is enough? How big is a big enough house, how many changes of clothes are enough? I am not saying this because I want to sit on my money, I love to give where God leads.

I went to a church where K.P. Yohannan of the "Gospel for Asia" spoke. In his testimony he shared how God brought him up short about all the stuff he had. Rolex, dozens of suits, etc,etc, etc. God asked him what he needed all that stuff for. Now he uses all his excess for the furtherence of the gospel. That is what the church must return to. The church, and not just TV preachers, must return to being stewards of what God has given us. We must return to loving others enough to give till it hurts, but not to consume it on our own lusts. We are way out of balance and we are injuring the church. TV preachers excess is causing the world to look on christians as a bunch of money grubbing shysters. I am sorry but I can't see Jesus in a five hundred dollar suit with a dimond pinky ring when there are hungry all around him. Please don't say I am jealous of what they have because I have everything I really need and that is the point. How much do they really need and how much is too much.

[color=6600CC]1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. [/color]

[color=6600CC]Hbr 13:5 [Let your] conversation [be] without covetousness; [and be] content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. [/color]

Enough said.

I’m not writing this to tear anyone up , but I know it is the truth. So many times I have heard someone say that our church teaches the bible correctly and we hold to what the bible says when in fact they are really saying is we hold to what we interpret the bible to say. Much of what they say to me is correct, but I always seem to hear something that I know is not if I talk to them long enough. I call this being a clone of their church and not being able to hear the Holy Spirit in an independent way from hearing men speak. Almost every one that I know is a clone in some way, including my closest friends. I’ve found this out by being a clone myself in many ways and at many different times in my somewhat long Christian walk. It can hinder your growth for a long time if you let it and keep you from reaching out and loving those who God would have you love and forgive.

Just yesterday, I was speaking to some one the Lord had me call on the phone. His name kept coming up on my mind and I became worried that he was in trouble so I called. Everything was ok, but there was need for protection to be prayed for. During our conversation he said a couple of things that were from being around different things that he’s heard from probable different teachers that were cloned ideas. This really doesn’t bother me to much because I expect to hear this stuff from people. What I am really trying to say now is that our overall conversation was a great blessing to me at the time since I could see past all this cloning and hear what the Lord is doing in his life. This man who is in his 50's probably was at one time demon possessed and is now a Christian of under 10 years, has opened up his house to some very destitute people, one of whom I’ve known since childhood. Many of these people have no where to go and even some of the local government people are coming to him and asking him if he can put some one up. When they come he only asks them to treat the house as if it was their parents house and clean up after themselves.

So my clone friend, do you reach out the unlovely? Do you visit those that are sick or in prison? Do you consider others before yourself? Are the poor, widowed, and orphaned on you mind? Are you merciful and full of grace for all? Do you forgive those that have hurt you? Are you meek, and humble or just proud of what you believe to be true and can true revelation still change a cloned idea that you have? Are you a peacemaker or do you just spend time making war with your words with people you don’t agree with? Do you mourn for others to the point of travailing prayer who are in obvious sin or do you just write them off because your opinion differs?

By the way, if I look at all like Charles Finney or Hudson Taylor am I invited into your church?

In love with Jesus,
GaryE

Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect.

When I first read that verse I thought that the signs and wonders would probably have to be pretty aweseome to seduce the elect. Now I see all that really is needed to throw Christians off course is a message on your purpose and potential and authority; without ever exalting the King of Kings. Anyone who wants to follow other gospels go have fun with your wood, gold, and hay. B/c when you look at the truths of the blood of Jesus Christ, the humility of Paul, how Christ holds all things together while interceding for you, and the hope of our future glory, you want nothing to do with cheap imitations. I know I can no longer get upset. I know I am young but I am telling you I've see it. The Holy Spirit has shown me dross-less truths. I am not saying I know more or something deeper, I am just saying truths. This is not a doctrinal issue or even a personality issue this is a Gospel issue. And I am telling you beg Him to show you His truths of the Gospel, b/c once you have even tasted one you will not stand for an imitation ever again.
I Regress
God Bless

The following is a link to the current thread titled "movies". There is an interesting story, third post down, from tjservant, that is surprisingly relevant to this discussion.
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=14584&forum=35&9

Another scripture to point out on this is:

[color=000099][font=Georgia]2Cr 11:13-15 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. [/font][/color]

This is my last comment on this topic, I will not be returning to this thread myself to read responses to this. The warning regarding this garbage has been put out there by several of the brethren. The evidence that these "teachers" are false is overwhelming. If you choose to continue to drink from a poisoned stream, so be it. I pray that we all come to a recognition of this and turn away from even listening to them. the deception can be very subtle, especially to those young in the faith.

Yours truly,
Contending for the faith,
and as always,
In His Love,

Doug

bro Provost

This is not a doctrinal issue or even a personality issue this is a Gospel issue. And I am telling you beg Him to show you His truths of the Gospel, b/c once you have even tasted one you will not stand for an imitation ever again.

and He has bro. i don't go for the okie-doke. that's why i filter it all through God and His word. that way anything which is miscommunicated, perverted or twisted is perfected before i take it in.

let us remember that we ourselves have not always shown perfect character not taught rightly always. we've had people that we have spoken to or taught (to tell someone something he doesn't know is to teach) who have had to filter what we have said so that what we've misunderstood, miscommunicated or mangled purposefully or not is seen in its true context.

i was just thinking yesterday and i realized that i don't know much about some of these people, their theologies and so on. don't know what a calvanist or araminean is or what dominion theology is. i feel that works to my advantage as i have no bias for or against anyone so when they speak my mind is open. i seek God and his word to see if there is any truth in what is said. whatever truth there is i hold on to. the lies i toss. i find most saints aren't like that and miss out on many things which God could have clarified if it were not for the bias against whoever has spoken. i don't subscribe to everything Paula White has ever said but i have learned from God through her, i don't agree with everything ravenhill said but i have learned from God through him also. i'll admit sometimes i wonder if we ever see any of the wrongs we have done and think they are not as bad as the next mans...at the end of the day though the same Spirit which is in me is in you working out God's plan. we all stumble sometimes but bless God that He works all things to the good of those He has called and that He is determined to finish this good work which He has begun in us!

God bless you bro

I read a book by Myles Monroe "Rediscovering the Kingdom" and I would defiantly recommend it to anyone. It was really an eye opener to me, I no longer see myself as a Christian, but rather as a citizen of the Kingdom of God. It is interesting to notice that the Christian church focuses so much on Jesus Christ, that they completely miss Jesus' message, i.e. "The Kingdom of God". If you read the 4 gospels you'll notice that Jesus also had a ministry, he went from village to village, from city to city and he had only one message, the message was NOT "The gospel of Jesus Christ" but "The gospel of The Kingdom of God". In fact the word gospel actually means "good news", so Jesus preached "The good news of the Kingdom of God". So what is this kingdom all about that Jesus talked about so much?. Well this book "Rediscovering the Kingdom" attempts to explain just that.

I totally agree with 'KGP'! I too read that book! Jesus message was about the Kingdom of God.

A word of defense on the WOF movement: Being Word Faith is not wrong. Some the preachers have misrepresented it, and put a bad taste in peoples mouths. but to put your faith in what God said is NOT wrong.

How does one get saved? He believes what the Word says (Romans 10:17). That is Word Faith in a nutshell!

Word Faith is in the bible: Josh 1:8, and the whole 119th Psalm is about the Word and taking heed to it. The rich young ruler (Matt 19:20-22), said he had kept all the commandments (law) from his youth. Well, put 2 and 2 together, Deut 28:1-14 pronounces a blessing of prosperity on all who keep the law. So how did the rich young ruler get his great possessions? He kept the law - what God said!

The Word says I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, so I am not going to say anything less than that about myself. Now, don't get your hackles up, I said; I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, not in myself. There is a big difference. I am the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD, in Christ! Anything less than God's righteousness would NOT allow me into His presence!

We need to drop the 'sinner saved by grace' mentally and renew our minds (Rom 12:2) to who we are IN CHRIST!

The Word says; I'm healed, 1Pet2:24. If I take my stand on that Word, my body will line up with it. (Rom 8:11)

The Word says; I'm delivered from the power of Darkess, Col 1:13. That means the devil is rendered powerless where I am concerned, but I have to submit myself to the Word and resist the devil (James 4:7).

The Word says, Christ redeemed me from the curse of the Law, and that I am now under the blessing of Abraham Gal 3:13. I means I am not cursed and cannot be cursed! I'm blessed period!

I could go on and on!

Some of the WOF preachers may be messed up, the concept of standing on the Word is not!

Dan

Word Faith is in the bible: Josh 1:8, and the whole 119th Psalm is about the Word and taking heed to it. The rich young ruler (Matt 19:20-22), said he had kept all the commandments (law) from his youth. Well, put 2 and 2 together, Deut 28:1-14 pronounces a blessing of prosperity on all who keep the law. So how did the rich young ruler get his great possessions? He kept the law - what God said!

That's a bit of a reach there especially since those very riches were those that had taken his heart and disqualified him from entering the kingdom. Jesus kept the law and had nowhere to lay His head ...

We need to drop the 'sinner saved by grace' mentally and renew our minds (Rom 12:2) to who we are IN CHRIST!

The Word says; I'm healed, 1Pet2:24. If I take my stand on that Word, my body will line up with it. (Rom 8:11)

[i]Then[/i] comes the line outsourced from Isaiah. It is very peculiar that the very emphesis used by Peter here explaining what is meant by [i]His stripes[/i] and our 'healing' is lost or rather made to mean something other than it's original intention. There is any number of posts dedicated to this matter elsewhere but this is an idea totaly bankrupt from it's intentions. Romans 8:11 ... These are spiritual truths not 'physical' attributes, again the context here.

Dan, what might escape you here is how much these things taught in this fashion are just plain presumptous. "Standing on the Word" by making it mean what it does not say nor intend and teaching others as well, is at the very core of this heretical 'movement'. Some of us here were well entrenched in all of this in former days and the concept is not furthered any better by dismissing the more outlandish from the seemingly subtle.

crsschk:

The Word of God is life to those that find it and health to all their flesh. Proverbs 4:22

The Word of God and is quick (alive) and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword...Heb 4:12

I have found real life and victory by applying the Word of God to my everyday life.

Dan

It was really an eye opener to me, I no longer see myself as a Christian, but rather as a citizen of the Kingdom of God. It is interesting to notice that the Christian church focuses so much on Jesus Christ, that they completely miss Jesus' message, i.e. "The Kingdom of God".

I think it's also really funny how a lot of gnostics feel the same way. I mean it's not about Jesus...it's about His kingdom and the knowledge of His message. Satan is the only one who wants the church to get away from Jesus centered messages.

I think it's also really funny how a lot of gnostics feel the same way. I mean it's not about Jesus...it's about His kingdom and the knowledge of His message. Satan is the only one who wants the church to get away from Jesus centered messages.

A genuinely Jesus-centered message goes hand in hand with a Kingdom-centered message :-

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Mat 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mat 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
[/color]

Satan will distract people into "building the kingdom" in their own strength, without Jesus, and without repentance; but he will also distract them with a "It's all about Jesus" message where people hype themselves up in their own strength, without Jesus and without repentance ...

[color=0000CC]
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[/color]

The problem is once we have seen abuse or gross distortion on an aspect of scripture, we often tend to throw the whole thing away without finding out what did God really means.

I once heard that fighter planes drop loads of shrapnel as decoys for missiles aimed at them. Whether this is true or not, I think Satan often does the same around the areas of scripture that strengthen and edify Christians, especially those where spiritual power is concerned. Because of the "confusion" around these topics many Christians give up on them completely.

Satan's nightmare is a Christian that is fully equipped, operating in God given power, and totally devoted to Christ and his Kingdom.

PassingThru

It is interesting that I was looking for information on Myles Munroe and was googled to this site and practically the first statement I read is this:

He's a false teacher and if he is not all the teachings I have ever heard come out of his mouth in the name of Jesus and under the influence of the "Spirit" has been false.

Personally I think it is a tremendously dangerous statement to make. I have been a Christian since 1970 and I first heard Dr. Munroe teach in 1990. I was going through a very tough time and his teachings on purpose and potential were very influential in deepening my faith. I have read his books Understanding Your Potential, Releasing Your Potential, and Maximizing your potential and I have listened to all of his messages on these three subjects. I find them to be very Christ centered and I believe inspired by the Holy Spirit. You can find audios of his sermons on these topics @ http://genesisproject.biz/documents/42.html if you want to give it another try and see if you don't find something that you believe isn't there like preaching the truth of the Word. There are a lot of questionable preachers "out there", but Myles Munroe isn't one of them.

WOW! Am I in a court room or what? How can the imperfect point out anothers imperfections.

Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions.

Bottom line, he preaches Jesus as the son of God and Savior, the way into the Kingdom of God. Also everything I heard him preach was backed up well with scripture. It looks like we have many aspiring teachers crying "false witness" about a fellow child of God. But who are we to point out his theological understanding about the Kingdom with our own. Scripture wasn't given to us as weapons of judgement to use against each other but for the Holy Spirit to convict us.

James4:11 Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?

I think that Mr. Munroe is doing a great job and is Doing the Great Commission by harvesting souls for Jesus and the Kingdom. As for the aspiring teachers out there be careful with what you preach because your words can be the ones that turn someone away from God.

James3:1
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

Lastly, God still does what he says so lets not worry about doing it for him. Do you really think that He needs your help?

crsschk,I suppose I need to ask you,is there any such thing as healing. And is it Gods will to heal.If yes or no how do we know if not from the word? Have you personally ever seen a person healed [miaculously?].....trying to figure why you said what you said Thanks,David

Provost, Why dont we rename this thread "SLICE,DICE AND HACK ANYONE THAT OPERATES IN THE GIFTS" In your zeal to police the entire body of christ you have trashed a grand old man of God Kenneth Hagin.You couldnt even sit up to the same table as Hagin.You also trash the Brownsville revival.What you have done is the equivalant of attacking all baptist and then saying "lets go ahead and throw Billy Graham in there too,just for good measure!"
Now let me guess ummmm a real man of God would be.....Hank Hannagraff. I dont think we will get far in our walks with God playing Holy Ghost police......David

Finger pointing never helps anything or anyone for we are all the likeness of God. Equal, so how can we place fault. Just saying that lets stick to the Law and not blame others for mishaps that obviously effected you. When we ask God for forgiveness is he not faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and CLEANSE us from all unrighteousness. The past can haunt people for their whole life, so let it go and treat everybody as the righteousness of God. It seems like there is a pedestal which you have placed men on, by try to bash other men down. If you asked those men about the great things they've done, would they not say that it wasn't them but the Holy Spirit working through them. It's called Humility or Humble. Also how can I not be worthy to sit at any man's table when I can at Jesus'. Let's seek and find true Salvation please because no man should be lifted on high. We receive exactly as much forgiveness we give. The world is in chaos due to placing fault from protesting everything in the U.S., to Sunni's and Shiites to the inspiration of a whole people's destruction. It's so powerful that you took the authority of appointing me a title, only our King has the glory for that. Wow.

Myles Munroe is a motivational speaker to many cross sections of world government and buisness. As to his man centered gospel??? I have heard him minister some pretty convicting stuff. We seem to live in a time where we tend to judge based on "a" book or "a" statement we may have picked up on from the individual we'er judgeing. It's kinda like judgeing a meal after the first course is served. Now I know some who post comments will justify not reading or listen or learning where this Brothers heart is, but you certainly shouldn't cast negative judgements on him and you stand in hell fire judgement by calling him a false prophet and that without complete knowledge. I think there are times when a public apology might be inorder. That said, I have seen the word of knowledge operate in and through this man with pin point accuracy about situations he wasnot privy to.

crsschk,I suppose I need to ask you,is there any such thing as healing. And is it Gods will to heal.If yes or no how do we know if not from the word? Have you personally ever seen a person healed [miaculously?].....trying to figure why you said what you said Thanks,David

[i]By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible. Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them. By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned. By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days. By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again:

and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.[/i] Heb 11:24-40

Not a direct answer to your question but to point out [i]prerogative[/i]. The key word here is '[i]others[/i]'. Who determines sovereignty? Whose prerogative was it that Job suffer all that he did without a hint of why it came to pass?

[i]2Ti 4:20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick. [/i]

[i]1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.[/i]

And ...

Act 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

And many more just like them. To answer your question, have I 'seen' anyone healed 'miracuolusly' ... depends. Of a 'rise up and walk' variety, no. It is without a doubt miraculous that I now sit here typing before you and that the too close calls with death where forestalled. Would find it a great answer to prayer that the surgeons who operated 2 cancerous brain tumors a year and a half apart from my mother, not leaving her a vegetable but with all her reasoning faculties well intact and that after being quite incoherent because of the inflammation of her brain ... Miraculous? I won't gander one way or the other and that may be the whole point I am attempting to get across with this, simultaneously answering some of the other objections here.

Word of Faith theology is more than a blight on Christianity. It is devastating multitudes by luring the sheep into aberrant teachings, promises that are wretched out of their context and refuses to submit their notions to the true test of scripture, the very [i]whole[/i] of it.

Will interject that I am not all that familiar with Mr. Munroe but interjected earlier comments in response to statements made so don't derive assumptions from that. What I do recall is some appealing to him from those that are of the WOF ilk. That is neither here nor there.

Also to interject, there is no need for a reverse slandering of those whose concerns are forwarded here.

This is the perfect vehicle to again allow for some somber thinking about how we can parse scripture to subtexts and try and make them stand alone, on their own two feet. If we start with a pretext or a presumption such as;

is it Gods will to heal

We can be asking the wrong question, even, if we are not careful bringing a dangerous accusation ...

[i]Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.[/i] Mat 4:5-7

In fact this is exactly what a lot of these presumptions amount to. Otherwise what are we to do with;

1Th 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

Php 1:29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,

2Co 1:6 If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; and if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which you experience when you patiently endure the same sufferings that we suffer.

1Pe 2:20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

What I am trying to point out is this goes beyond healing and unto presumption of Whose Will it is we are trying to conform to our adaptations. To believe God for what He Has said is not to therefore attribute Him to bow to our wishes and desires, capitulate to make Him hold to our preconceptions by parsing His Word however we choose to wield it.

WOF theology finds itself in a pickle, backed into a corner that it cannot get out of if it is to take the whole of Gods Word into account. Worse it attributes failure on the part of the subject either directly or by inference to a lack of faith or belief because the directives of the creature are not met having stood upon a verse as [i]ipso facto[/i]. The great trouble is to insert an "always" into the mix. If I line up under "A" than naturally "B" is to follow. We end up making God our servant dictating to Him rather than the other way around.

Even some of the patriarchs of these notions have had to go undercover to get their 'healing' elsewhere, at the hands of a skilled physician despite their long tenured philosophy and teaching otherwise. Disease and poor health will afflict both the saved and the unsaved in great numbers despite what they might teach otherwise. Death will come to all it is the unmoveable attrbute dictated by the fall of mankind and the payment rendered. It was the end of the disease that recently took my mothers life despite the prayers otherwise.

The evidence supports that God will heal who He chooses to heal, when He wills to do so not at the beck and call of the creature. And that certainly does not take away the obligation of prayer for healing, nor the desire that those we love even our own well being be offered up, it is to take away the dastardly presumption from all aspects of the creature.

Spent a great deal of time holding to this line of thinking in years past, early, susceptible years and have lived with the fallout, still do in those that I love and have seen ruined by false hopes and wrenched promises never come to fruition. Financially they will continue to lead the sheep to the slaughter with promises of prosperity when it is their own bellies they are feeding, not to mention that it denigrates the noble name of the Lord Jesus who suffered and died for our sakes turning [i]gain into godliness[/i]

[i]Now listen, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a town, stay there a year, conduct business, and make money." You do not know what tomorrow will bring. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. Instead you should say, "If the Lord wants us to, we will live-and do this or that." But you boast about your proud intentions. All such boasting is evil.[/i] Jas 4:13-16 (ISV)

[i]Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.[/i] 1Ti 6:5

I have read most of Myles's books (i.e the purpose of prayer, power of vision) from what I have read i think this man really rightly divide the word of God. I believe religion has a way of putting a veil in our mind.I think when you read one of his books put a bible next to you and refer.The message of the kingdom is powerful, is what Jesus preached throughout his ministry and is what Myles is teaching.

Where is the love. If he is false, God will deal with it. "Vengence is mine saith the Lord." All who preach will be judged on whether they rightly divided the Word of Truth. Our business is working out our own salvation with fear and trembling. And studying for our ourselves whether or not what he or any other preacher/teacher says is Truth according to the Word of God. So brothers and sisters, let us put off this foolish talk and do what it is that God is calling us to do in our personal lives to reach the world for Him.

P.S. I attend Bahamas Faith Ministries International

God bless you ,people of GOD,how awesome it is to be able to discuss the things of our God and agree to agree or disagree and still love one another as He first loved us.
I believe that there is a misunderstanding on this teaching by Dr Munroe.
In the book of Genesis God declared to himself"Let us make man in our own image and likeness and LET THEM HAVE DOMINION OVER THE FISH OF THE SEA ,THE BIRDS OF THE AIR AND OVER EVERY LIVIG THING THAT MOVETH UPON THE EARTH.Gen.1:26
Now it is important to note that he said LET THEM (refering to man) and not us (refering to himself).This statement is crucial in understanding the level of authority God gave to his chosen regent on earth.
The word tells us that the earth is the Lord's,therefore he never gave up ownership,however he did give the authority to rule and dominate it to man.This too is important to understand because God will never violate his word.Once it is spoken out of the mouth of God it must come to pass.The bible tells us that he placed his word above his own name,heaven and earth will pass away yet his word shall stand forever.It matters not what happens in the earth after his word is given,it cannot change or alter his word.This is vital to the believer because we know without a shadow of a doubt we can always trust him at his word.
Now,by giving the authoity to man to dominate the earth he removed himself as the number 1 authority on earth as long as his regent ,man was obedient to his word.When Adam disobeyed God he basically comitted treason and abdicated his throne temporarily.
ENTER THE SECOND ADAM,JESUS THE CHRIST.
The entrance of the Son of God signaled the keeping of his word by the Father in sending the qualified answer to the dominion problem created by Adams disobedience.An answer that actually existed before the problem.God was always prepared.After all he is God.
The age old question is what did Jesus bring?The answer to that question lies in another.What did man lose?
If you met up with Adam the day after he sinned you would not have been able to automatically know what he had lost.He didn't lose the fish ,still there ,he didn't lose the animals ,they were still there,didn't lose the earth at all and certaintly did not lose a religion because he never had one.
Adam lost nothing that you could see.
What he lost was the presence of God.The word Eden translated from the original hebrew means presence.The power that gave him his authority.He lost the HOLY SPIRIT.
When Jesus,the second Adam came,he did something interesting.At the end of his minitry on earth he went to the cross.He came to die to restore what was lost.
Now if he had gone to the cross ,died for our sins ,rose again and left ,would that have really helped us.All that would have done was cleanse us for the moment and Satan would have then a cleaned house to habitate.
He had one final act.The most important part of his mission.
The word says he metwith them,his disciples,held each of thier heads and breathed on each of them and said ,receive the Holy Spirit.
This,was the act that restored man's dominion over the earth.This was the resoration of the Kingdom.This was God keeping his word way back in Genesis."Let them have dominion"
It only could have happened thru someone who knew no sin.His blood alone was the only solution.
He is the King of Kings.He called us kings because we were given a domain.A king's domain.A kingdom.
He never gave us authority to dominate one another however,which is why as human beings we always resist being controlled.As sons of God it does not agree with our dna.We were given the ability to control our circumstances and environment in which we live.We may not be able to dictate the event but we were given the ability to control our victory thru it.
Seek ye fist the Kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things(what you shall eat,drink or wear or where you shall live) will be added unto you.
We must make the furtherance of the Kingdom our first priority and most importantly keep ourselves in right alingment(righteousness)with God and his
laws which will ensure our victory in all things.Remember God does not want us to do anything for him but to make ourselves available,thru obedience, for his plans and to be used by him for his purposes.
To God be all Glory,dominion and power amen.

Hi everyone.

hubba, how are you? Welcome to the forums. I would like to respond if I could to some of the things that you shared. Before that, I also wanted to say that it has been customary in the past to introduce ourselves as we come newly to the forums :-)

About this,

"The age old question is what did Jesus bring?The answer to that question lies in another.What did man lose?
If you met up with Adam the day after he sinned you would not have been able to automatically know what he had lost.He didn't lose the fish ,still there ,he didn't lose the animals ,they were still there,didn't lose the earth at all and certaintly did not lose a religion because he never had one.
Adam lost nothing that you could see."

I do think that there were very definite changes to the world that could be seen: one, perhaps, would have been thorns and thistles(Gen 3:18), secondly, for sure, the Cherubims and a flaming sword that turned 'every way' at the entrance to the Garden!(which they were bansihed from(v24) :( , and third, that they were clothed(v21) who had before been naked and unashamed(Gen 2:25).

Also, about this,

"He lost the HOLY SPIRIT."

I'm not sure in what sense you mean this, but it seems somewhat like conjecture hubba? I mean to say it doesn't seem like something that is said in the scripture itself? Yes, it is true that the scripture says that God's presence was there in the garden, but, are you linking this with the giving of the Holy Spirit to the disciples and suggesting that this was(with Adam) and now with the diciples, a grounds for having authority?

Remember too though that the scripture says that the first man [i]is of the earth, earthy, but that the Second Man, [i]is the Lord from heaven[/i]. And also that,

"And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly."

Am making refrence here to 1Co 15:45-50.

And also that we are to put on [i]the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.[/i]

Too, I don't think we are to understand the work of Christ as 'restoring what was lost in Adam'.

But rather that we are new creatures(2 Co 5:17), and belonging to the World to come.

And also, not that we have been given dominion over this earth and world, but that we again looking to the one to come(Heb 2:5,8, 2Ti 2:12)?

Otherwise, why would the Apostle Paul say,

"Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you."

- 1Co 4:8(KJV)

Well, I hope it is alright that I have suggested these things by way of comparison. Please forgive me if I have misunderstood you in anyway. And again, welcome to the forums!

Let me know what you think, ok?

Wish you all grace and peace.

I think Myles munroe is way off on His kingdom theology.

You do know how false it is on what myles munroe teaches right? He has been man centered since the beginning, ever since I first started listening to him. He doesn't know the depths of God to start trying to tell us that He has the true gospel message. It is very dangerous to tamper with the gospel of Christ. Let him be accursed Paul said in Galations 1. If we are wrong then Paul is wrong because as Paul does talk about the Kingdom of God and the Kingodm of God is OF GREAT IMPORTANCE he[paul] never says gospel of the Kingdom specifically, so is HE WRONG???

Paul never tried to teach that Christ purpose was to give man authority and dominion over the earth again. Show me that scripture. God is the most God centered being in the universe and when He created man nothing changed. He still does everything for his glory. That is God's purpose for creation. So he can magnify His infinite worth. So he can uphold and display His glory for all his redeemed people to see and savor and enjoy forever. God is the gospel meaning the enjoyment of knowing God and seeing His glory is the end all goal of Christ death. He died to bring us to God. Everything that we get in the consumated Kingdom are spring boards to
more white hot worship of God. Paul describes the gospel in 2 corinthians 4 as the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ. The gospel of the Kingdom is meant to display the glory of Jesus Christ who reveals the glory of God in Himself.

God is still doing everything to display His glory all over the earth. The word "Kingdom" in greek, arabic, and hebrew means Kingly rule or reign. So Christ was saying the Reign of God is at hand. The Kingly rule of God is at hand. Guess who that King was who was bringing Gods reign in a more personal and open way, Jesus Christ.

Christ is bringing us into His Kingdom where there is fulness of joy and pleasure forevermore. The Kingdom is not fully consumated yet and we will not enjoy the fullness of it yet. The only way into the Kingdom of God is throught the cross and suffering. Christ didnt died so we dont suffer now. We have to suffer ALOT in this life, acts 14:22 we need to suffer or we wont reign later romans 8:17. Not only that suffering is gift from God to us, philippians 1:29. Also we are to choose to suffer as Paul did to display Christ sufferings in our bodies to all the elect sheep out there colossians 1:24. Something that myles munroe never seems to mention. Paul's life was full of suffering and hardships and sickenss and he said I boast in it and count my life as nothing 2 Corinthins 12:9 and acts 20:24. He didnt live the life myles preaches. Paul even said He rather be with Christ now philippians 1:21-24. WHY? Because the King of kings is the all satisfying treasure we were created to know intimately and worship and fear and glorify. Dying is GAIN for us not because we shouldnt be scared of death though we shouldnt but because we get more of Christ. Christ is the inheritence and we get the joy of being in his Kingdom(Kingly rule and {domain when fully consumated}). So myles may want to get his theology straight.

God is not illegal on earth, what a blasphemer for saying that, He has no fear of the King of kings to say that. Will we dare say that to God when face to face. No we will be on our faces before the Holiness of God. We will see are depravity and see everything we ever got was GRACE not deserved. Get in your bible and read on the sovereignty of God. That does not mean that God can do anything He wants but chooses not to because of so called free will but that He does do everything He wants and nothing stops Him, God is sovereign over ever sin and your maturity and nothing happens outside his ultimate will. Nothing stops Gods purpose. God doesn't violate wills. ARE YOU SERIOUS?? We are totally depraved and it took a miracle work of God for the elect to even be saved, its called new birth. And Gods original plan was not messed up, when adam sinned he fuliflled it because adams sin was all apart of the plan. How do we know this because there was a book of life for the lamb who was slain before the foundations of the world revelations 13:8.

Also for those who love earth and dont live rejoicing in the HOPE OF THE GLORY OF GOD where is revelations 6:11 in your theology because God has a number of martyrs that must be completed before the end comes. So who loves their lives in this life, or who is sold out to say Im going, Im dying for His glory like Jesus told peter he was going to at the end of the gospel of John. Because the way He preaches nobody will hate their life in this life like we are called too...If you love this life there is not way you will go and die for Christ as some are called...

peace and grace

Yes, true that I heard him speaking on a Benny Hinn show.... and didn't read the book for about another year... Yet, when I did....it sure made more sense to me than anything I'd heard all the other 20 years from the pulpit... And I cannot study the bible on my own, thank you very much,and make anything out of it except complete mismash of "self-teaching".... I don't even know how someone even thinks you can just sit in a corner with your bible and get the same exact message as the next guy down the road...because you wanted to "self-learn"....( oh yeah, I should mention that if both of you really trust the Holy Spirit.. yadda, yadda, yadda,... The Spirit is sure to be certain that each of you..get the exact interpretation... Yeah, RIGHT !

We often believe most of the stuff we tell ourselves.. and then we are left scratching our heads wondering why eveyone else see it so differently than we do... Aren't we afterall, praying to the same trinity for guidance.??

Getting back to Dr.Munroe. I had oftened wondered since becoming a new creation in Christ...what the heck was all that talk about the Kingdom.. Jesus kept talking about.?? And no one else seemed to really care...and no one preached it from any pulpit...Like this Dr. Munroe has... Now I have read two books and watched his videos dozens of times... And the message rings loud and clear to me... And the power of what God (in my Opinion) has shown Dr. M.M. has made more sense than 20 years of the other fluff...that "religious" teaching has taught me to look at God thru.

Simply put, if it is the "Wrong Gospel"...thank you , but I would rather find inner peace, and a more healthy outlook on mankind and myself thru the Kingdom Teaching of Christ ( thru the Dr. ) than all the other ridiculousness that up to now have always fallen WAY SHORT of anything that makes sense. I know Paul wrote 75% of New Testament.... But He didn't come down from the Kingdom now did he? Jesus said that when this gospel of the Kingdom is preached....then the end will come.

I don't agree with the shenanigans of Benny Hinn.. and this "close friendship of Dr. M.M. to him..

But the message is something the Dr. Says he learned from the Spirit of God over a 20 year period.... of personal study. So either He is Totally WRONG or He is Definitely onto something worthwhile WITH THIS KINGDOM culture of GOD for all Mankind.

But No one will ever be 100% satisfied. I wonder Why?

You know many people speak on the Kingdom of God. I admit not enough but to say that myles munroe is right on would be an err theologically. He is not the only pastor who preaches the Kingdom of God, who I may add is easily an expression of what a man centered preacher looks like. I know many who preach on it actually. You can read my comment below this one if you would like but fam, Paul never specifically even said the, "I preach the gospel of the Kingdom" and His gospel was given him by Christ himself. And He said the gospel that He preached was the only gospel and those who preach something diffrent will be accursed. galations 1:8-9. I heard and saw myles munroe say God himself spoke to him audibly telling him not to preach the gospel of Christ when that is all the apostle Paul preached, he never specifically said the gospel of the Kingdom once so is He wrong??

Also quick defintion of the Kingdom...
The word kingdom in greek means reign or kingly rule. That is where the King reigns. In that overall sense God reign and rules over everything. Christ wasn't preaching the overall sovereignty of God but His saving reign.

Christ came bring God's saving reign and it came in the Person and work of Jesus Christ. Christ purpose was to redeem all that adam messed up through a cross. To show Christ superiority over the first adam. The mystery of the Kingdom is that Christ came to die for sinners first as a suffering servant on a cross before he came to establish his Kingdom as the conquering King. The Kingdom is here but not yet consumated. We are in the Kingdom of God but are still waiting to inherit its fulness.

Also the only way into the consumated Kingdom where God is our supreme treasure is through many afflictions Paul says Acts 14:22. Myles would never speak on this because he is man centered and turned a glorious topic of the Kingdom into another man centered gospel.

This life is not a call to ease and comfort but to cross bearing and daily dying with fulness of joy because of the supremse worth of Christ to spread the gospel and make disciples in all peoples groups and God has ordained we suffer to present Christ suffering in our sufferings colossians 1:24.

I was almost duped into believing myles munroe but Christ never spoke on giving man dominion. We are called to be servants and suffer for our enemies. Christ told us to store up treasures in heaven matthew 6:20 and Paul told us rejoice in "hope and in our suffering" romans 5:2-5

I mean myles concept of the Kingdom is mainly phyiscal when the gospel of the Kingdom of heaven is mainly spiritual.

Please I plead with you to seek God centered people on the teachings of the Kingdom. All of Christ apostle were killed for the sake of the Kingdom and are now in glory. The only way to the Kingdom is through the cross and suffering. Don't fall prey to dominion theology but follow Christ with your cross and make disciples of all nations with the body of Christ...

peace and grace

Please do a deeper study on the Kingdom and don't fall prey to man centered worldly success and power driven preachers who have no love for the glory of God.

awesome...
definitely agree with most if not everything..

i read that with no difficulty trying to clarify or even debate the matter.... i share your view on this becuase i believe it is Jesus centred .. keep at it.. that was the clearest explanation on the Kingdom i've read yet. and there was no need to put anyone down. God bless

God Bless

From what I know, Myles seems to misunderstand the distinction between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven... and the fact that many of the things promised to those in the Kingdom of God are for a later time, after the resurrection of the saints. Remember that the Kingdom of God is not about food and drink, but about righteousness, peace and joy, in the holy ghost.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Myles teaches that our place in God's Kingdom gives us rights here on earth to be movers and shakers. But in relation to the here and now, the Kingdom of God is invisible, it is the spiritual place we enter in submission to the King to surrender our will and submit ourselves to His will. We learn servitude... not to reign at this time. The Kingdom resides within the heart and soul of true believers. In the present tense, it is not a Kingdom of Dominant kings, but of humble and meek servants. "The meek SHALL inherit the earth" at a later time, after Christ returns.

Remember that Christ did not come to conquere the Romans, but to conquere sin on our behalf. He says to us, "follow my example..."

The New Testament model in this Kingdom for the church on earth is to follow the example of Christ and to suffer for his namesake. As Christians, we have not been called to dominate society and claim it all with arrogant decrees, but to take up our cross and proclaim the gospel. I suspect that Myles Monroe teaching caters more to those who want power and authority rather than servitude and suffering.

From what I've seen and heard, it's about claiming things and taking things and demanding for things to happen in society that will bring about change and righteousness in the world. But changing society and politics is not what Christ came to do. We should be focusing on the Great Commission, not changing the world.

In relation to our heavenly reward, our objective is not to TAKE dominon of the earth but to look forward to the blessed hope which is the ressurrection of the saints and dwelling with the Lord. It's not until we get to heaven that there will be no more tears, pain, sorrow, etc... We don't use the law to enforce righteousness on society, but as a schoolmaster to show them their need for Christ. We're supposed to be humble servants, not proud possessors. In this church age, Christians are persecuted, put to death, or maligned for their beliefs and lifestyle. The Bible does not support a time when the church will dominate government and society before Christ's return. These claims are in complete opposition to end time prophecy.

One thing Myles says that I do agree with is that we need to realize we are occupants of a Kingdom, not members of a religion. However, I do suspect it is very close, if not complete Dominion theology.

IRONMAN wrote:
bro Provost

He's a false teacher and if he is not all the teachings I have ever heard come out of his mouth in the name of Jesus and under the influence of the "Spirit" has been false. He preaches a completely man-centered gospel (which the Holy Spirit will have no part in) and I have seen him on TV prophesyin money b/c God gave him that "annointing"...nowhere in Scripture. He may be a swell and even educated guy, but his teaching is not Holy Spirit inspired b/c his "gospel" teaching is too man-centered to come from someone who truly has a heart burning for Jesus Christ.

an interesting perspective. how is his "gospel" "man centred?"

Myles Munroe: "That's why angel's need our permission to function. It says they are here to do our bidding. They can't even act without our permission, you see. (But, here's the bigger statement:) Even God Himself is illegal on earth. Why? Because, He is a spirit and the law He set up by His own mouth was that only spirits with bodies can function on earth legally.

so how does God work on earth now?

Myles MunroeLet me define prayer for you in this show. Prayer is man giving God permission or license to interfere in earth's affairs. In other words, prayer is earthly license for heavenly interference."

if we don't pray, what happens?

"Heaven depends on earth for interference. If He [God] could just find two people like you [Benny Hinn] and I to agree. We agree for God to do this thing. Then God says, 'Thank you very much for permission!'

if God has in mind to do something through you, could He do it without your compliance?

Our prayer is a strange experience. We normally ask God to do things, God is telling us to command Him permission to do it for us."

if God wants His will done here, should we not line up with what He wants to do? can He do this without our compliance?

Trying to understand,

I believe there is a difference in permission and compliance.

Let's say that we are praying the Lord's prayer for us when he said "thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven".

Giving someone permission to do something places the person on a higher level than the one getting the permission. On the the other hand compliance is more like submitting to the higher person.

We are not suppose to have our own agenda that we need to give God permission to come and help us fulfill. We are suppose to be praying that the will of God will be done in our life on earth as it is in heaven by submitting to his authority.

God will not submit to our authority and he will not be thanking us for giving him permission to do anything. I am concern today when I hear people talk with a lack of respect for God. Jesus said that we need to fear the one(God)that had the power(authority) to send to hell. I don't want to go to hell and I don't even want to know anyone who does, but I am sure that the one's who are there didn't have to give God permission before he sent them there.

On this earth God is looking for a people who will submit to his authority and will, so that God can carry out his will in a people on this earth. Permission can make it sound like you are still the owner but submission turns the ownership over to God completely without any room for misunderstandings.

I will stop for now and may God bless all who reads!

Hi Guys I am new here and after reading this there are a couple of points i want to raise. I know there is a tendency of human nature to judge people when what they say doesn’t fit into our world view so I implore you only to comment on what I have to say based on a sound holy ghost inspired conclusion (Exegesis)

1. Discernment and judgment of false prophets

“I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.”
Romans 16:17 (We are exhorted by scripture to identify and avoid those who teach heresy.)

“The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:” 1 Corinthians 2:15 (We are told by Jesus teachings never to condemn a fellow brother but rather edify and encourage. This is a different context to the judgment of spiritual matters like a false theology in which scripture clearly states we are to judge.)

“I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.” 1 John 2:26-27 (There is no better teacher of the scriptures than the Holy Spirit. Man may teach error but the Holy Spirit does not)

2. False teachers in the end times
The bible clearly teaches us that there will be many false teachers. And how to identify them. We should all examine ourselves to see if we are still in the faith or if we have erred. If there was many false teachers in the time of the apostles its is logical 2000 years later that there will still be false teachers if not even more. As you can see from 1Jn2:26-28 we have an anointing that teaches us all things including how to identify a false prophet. IF we cannot identify who these false prophets are it could be because we are deceived by our own hearts and have been led astray. The apostles were able to “identify and mark” false prophets and in a time when we have so many if we are still taught of the holy spirit shouldn’t we?

3: Scripture gives us criteria for identification of false teachers

“and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.” 1 Tim 6-10 (Noticed the bit that says those eager for money have wandered or erred from the faith often false teachers focus on the love of money because their faithful followers would never think they love money but read the scriptures carefully and you will see that you cannot love money if you do not first desire it)

Read both books of timothy and Titus and pray that the holy spirit should teach you these truths.

Read Ezekiel 34

“But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.n their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.” 2 Peter 1-3

Believe it or not even in those days there where preaches who taught and thought that godliness was a means to financial gain. They taught error with a clear motive to exploit their followers they did this even in the time of Ezekiel

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn-bushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. (Matthew 7:15-20)”

If you also read Mark 4 you will see that in that parable Jesus says that thorns represents the desires of this world.

“Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” 1 John 2:15

Conclusion
I used to be a typical follower of Dr Myles Monroe. I was a brain washed Pentecostal that was taught to interpret the bible based on false theology. I was delivered by the Holy Spirit and began to see the truth for myself and I no longer listen to preachers like creflo dollar etc.

Holy Spirit

We are exhorted by the word to study the word of God. But when I was brain washed the only conclusions I could come to were those I was pre-positioned by indoctrination to come to.

The Holy Spirit taught me many fundamentals that led me to the truth I encourage everyone who still listens to preachers such as Monroe to read books on the following

1 Hermeneutics

2: Exegesis

3: Hebrew 6 , 7, 8 , 9

4: Romans 3,4,7,8

5: Entire book of Galatians

6: 2 Co 3
7.kingdom

Let us examine ourselves to see if we are still in the faith. An easy way to know if someone is teaching error is this. Look at the topic as it is taught in scripture does this match to what the preacher is saying? Does your preacher take a single verse and wretch it out of context then tell you what is supposed to mean. The New Testament teaches contentment is this you are taught our are you taught? or that it is okay not to be content? and that it is also okay to desire and thereby in doing so love money?
Also look at what Jesus actually taught about his kingdom. The kingdom of God is now and it is yet to come. We do not get to live as kings of earth now that’s false doctrine read revelation and you see that “to those that overcome the world they shall be given the crown of live” in the day of judgment some will receive damnation and others a crown of life to reign as kings. Our reign does not start on earth our ambassadorship is to reconcile and fallen world back to their creator “We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.” 2 Co 2:5:20

“For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,
” Romans 14:17

Hello!

I can say I have been studying Myles Munroe teachings for close to ten years. I think that you are confused by his teachings because you are putting a democratic (we live in a democracy and therefore understand democracy) imposed understanding on a kingdom principle.

Myles Munroe preaches 100% God's Word. He breaks down the Hebrew and Greek words to show us how we have been missing it all along. He preaches about God being a God of order, of purpose, of power, our MIGHTY CREATOR and KING. That is to be HIGHLY respected and exhaulted. Maybe the reason you think he preaches a man centered word is because you are not truly listening to him teach us how to truly serve a King in HIS Kingdom of Righteousness. If you really listen to him you will see that it is NOT about us at all! That we are here to carry out the mandate of God's Kingdom. How do we do that, we open our mouth and speak the word of God which invites heavenly interefernce. Jesus said you have not because you ask not. He goes on to say if you still have not it is because you pray amiss. Meaning you are not praying Gods will and principles into the situation at hand. See it's not by us but through us. Jesus said greater things then these will we do when the comforter comes. He also states these are the signs that follow those who believe mark 16:17. When you are praying Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. What that means is you are submitting to God's Kingdom laws and priciples of Heaven making Him your King, therefore the laws that rule in heaven are to take place right here on earth just as they do in heaven. See God doesn't do it because of us, He does it because of Him! When we speak His word and law out we are placing honor and respect on His laws and ways instead of the worlds. That is part of loving the Lord your God with all your heart, strength and mind. Of course God can still interfere in our lives without our consent. However, if you are going through spiritual warefare, Jesus gave YOU the keys, the armor to fight in HIS army. You fight with the word of God and knowing who He is and who you are in Him. Why would Jesus die so that you live a broken beat up life? There will always be a fight, but there is a difference when you understand true warfare you know how to win that fight. If you will read the word of God with a Kingdom understanding, you will start to see verses pop out at you that you read millions of times that now make sense. Jesus didn't say repent, for the Church and Religon is here. No! He said repent for the Kingdom of GOD is here! He said the Kingdom is now at hand. He said the Kingdom now today is within you. Jesus was the way the truth and the light, not the final destination. Jesus never preached of himself, He preached of the Father and HIS WILL. Why would satan tempt Jesus with the entire kingdom if this war isn't about kingdom things? Why would the first commandment be that THOU shall NOT place any other GODS before me? What was the first sin that truly occurred? It happened in heaven... Do you see, this isn't about religon. It is about what the word of God actually says! Read the four gospels again and when Jesus was preaching to the crowds, what did He preach? What did Paul really preach? Read Acts 14:22, 19:8 and 28:31. Listen saints we have been missing it and missing it BIG! Please read all of Matthew 24 and then read again Matthew 24:14! Jesus said, and THIS GOSPEL of the KINGDOM will be preached all over the world, THEN the END will come! We as the church have not been preaching the kingdom. Jesus said we are to preach the Kingdom.

See most christians today are about the "blessing and the promises of God" Where Myles Munroe is teaching us that the blessing is just the FRUIT of the one made the promise. That we don't need to stress about our finances or our jobs, because Jesus told us not to. First SEEK the KINGDOM OF GOD and HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS (right standing) and THEN these things shall be added unto you. Look back over what you have been praying for... is it that Gods Kingdom rules and reigns in your life? That you are an active citzen carrying out His laws and dominion established in Gen 1:26 and given back to us through Christ? How do you measure your faith? Do you have faith that God is going to provide you with a house or car or promotion? We call that faith where God calls that fear... We once again are praying a miss and wondering why we are living in sickness, poverty and depression. We blame it on satan and life because we are too ignorant or lazy to learn who our King is and how Powerful He is! We think because we are christians that we automatically should have quick easy answers and do nothing to obtain it because we misunderstand grace. We are neglecting the real clashing and fight between two kingdom in our mind and world everyday! How exactly did Jesus teach us to pray and why are we to pray that way... Read again Jesus prayers with a kingdom understanding and you will see the power that He was teaching us.

Any person who has listened to most or all of his teachings will see how Myles Munroe backs scripture up with scripture and pulls out the character, personality and WILL of our maker. The problem is most christians don't seek the maker. Most christians come to the throne room only looking to get their quick fix and not serve the King. Saints obediance is being who we are called to be regardless of how we feel. That is truly picking up our cross and following him.

So many churchs are preaching the gospel of Jesus, but not the gospel that Jesus preached. So many are seeking after the promises of God instead of the God who made the promise.

Prayer in the hebrew actually means to petition. If you are a citzen in the kingdom, and the enemy who comes to kill, steal and destroy and if you know your rights as a child of the KING of KINGS your prayer life changes. It's prayer of power and effective because it is based off of GODS laws and principles. You can boldly approach the throne KNOWING that God will see to it that HIS word is accomplished (isa 56:11) We are to pray/petition because Jesus told us to. He said it, that ends it for me.

I challenge each Munroe basher to get on itunes and download the free podcast from Living Word Ministries that has guest speaker Munroe. Take your bible, cross reference EVERYTHING he says, take notes, full notes, and tell me where is teaching is man based or false. However, if you don't take the time to truly find out and TEST who he is and WHO he really preaches about, then you should stay silent. Proverbs says that even a fool will look wise when his words are few.

TEST and Reprove~ It's our duty! We are our brothers keeper!

Trinity, presumably you are referring to th US as a democracy, of which it is not. The US is a republic. Probably a moot point in this 65 post thread.

When I came across this man on the net 5 yrs ago, I discerned him to be more of a business man than a man of God. However, that was after I watched about 10 of his sermons & read a few of his books. His preaching is much different than that of the early Church leaders like Paul & James, the Quakers, the Reformers, & the Puritans. Seemed more like a "Steps to Worldly Gain" gospel that he preached then.

The problem is not that what Monroe is saying cannot be found in the bible. The problem is that his understanding of eschatology is very bad and he is not a good Hebrew or Greek scholar. It is impossible to teach "the kingdom" without properly understanding eschatology. Our ambassadorship here on earth is to reconcile man to his God. Through the enabling of Gods power we demonstrate love, peace joy, miracles, signs and wonders and in a nutshell the Kingdom of God. These things we demonstrated are a foretaste of Gods kingdom when God himself will dwell with his people for eternity. Our job is to preach the gospel with power and lead people to his glorious kingdom. We experience the “kingdom now” thought the power of the Holy Ghost dwelling within us, regenerating us and enabling us. The”Kingdom to Come” is all in asleep in Christ will rise and reign for eternity with Christ.

Paul and the other apostles understood eschatology along the lines of kingdom now and kingdom to come. That’s why their eyes were firmed fixed on the “hope of their calling” which was the “kingdom to come” not anything they experienced on the earth.

Paul’s kingdom theology is remarkable. He was filled and baptised with the Holy Ghost performed many signs and wonders and without a doubt truly experienced the “kingdom now”. But the only earthly experience he took pride in was how he suffered for Christ. In fact he sums up with the great eschatological statement
Romans 8:17 (New International Version)
17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
Monroe does not teach the Kingdom Gospel. His teaching of Gods kingdom is misleading and dare I say borderline demonic. Yes we will reign with chirst, but that’s only after we first suffer for him in this present age. Anyone who tells you you shouldn’t suffer for the gospel and that Gods children are supposed to have all the best stuff is a false prophet.

Please be warned and I say with humility. The path that leads to life is a narrow road and few find it. Many will be lead on to roads that look like they lead to heaven but ultimately they will realise they were enticed unto a road that leads to destruction by their own covetousness.

Who else can be quoated for devastating results from teachings of Dr.Myles Muroe except me. I lost everything of mine. I spent hundreds of Birr(our currency in Ethiopia) to buy his 25 Books only to find myself in unspeakable darkness. Here he introduces completly a new "school of thought" other than what the appostles strongly warned believers to have faith in the after-life. Out of his 25 books that I used to possess, one school of thought, is "Christ gave his life to make mankind buisnessmen, leaders, dominators, rulers, vice-reagent, etc,". I have concrete evidence as to where the origin of his teachins are. By the way I'm not judging him for it is the Lord himself who judges me and all. Generally, I sense too much uncertainty about the accuracy of thee Gospel when communicated by man. My last word is this dying for the cause of the Gospel as taught by the appostles' is something only the blessed-ones aquire.

I don't know who you are what country you are from and at what age you stand. But let me forward few points which I believe should be shared. Let me first ask any one reading this message this:"Is there a difference or should/can we divide the message of the Gospel between the four Gospel of Christ and the teachings of the appostles(letters)? Can we dare to resolute that the appostles missed,missed, missed, missed, missed,etc, the message of our Lord Jesus Christ? If yes; then we will have enough background to persue Myls' teachings!!!!!!!!!! For all of them(appostles) in one voice postponed our hope to be in the life to come. Let our narrow-mind that poses logic to keep silent. Why? How? When, etc, all are good but also confusing to cost even one's salvation.

Hello! I'm new here, and just read the above post by RainMan. This Word of the importance of understanding how narrow is the way, is not being taught today. We are saved by grace alone, but to participation in the Kingdom (The 1000 year reign of Christ) is only by striving, to attain the prize, and is only to those who suffer with Christ. Paul's teachings address this issue. If salvation is what is in view, which is totally by grace, then why is Paul talking about striving to attain to, that no one take your crown,,,,many many scriptures. Also, the 7 churches in Revelation addressed in The first 3 chapters of the book promise the crowns, and promises only to the overcomers. To overcome, we must be daily in the Word, sold out to follow the commands of our Lord, which if we love Him, we will obey His commands, which are not burdensome. This is a huge subject, and I really just meant to say AMEN! And kind of went on and on. I'm so in love with the Word of God, I can't get enough. I'm learning so much, and have so much yet I haven't grasped yet. Praise God for the Holy Spirit that leads us into all truth! God Bless you brother!!

It’s funny I was also looking for information and possible sermons from dr Munroe and got redirected here too