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Times Square Church

T
tinluke

Yesterday was so amazing at Church!! I was so encouraged by the message and the presence of God was so strong...it was almost tangible! Durning the worship service, I was so blessed just watching the women who was signing for the deaf ministry. I just watched her sign the words for each song and mouth the words... she look like an angel! I could have watched her and been completely blessed, but the message and the music...I can't even describe how glorious it was! Then to top it all off I got to meet Pastor Carter Conlon!! He is just clothed in kindness and he manifests the Love of Christ.

I would encourage anyone to visit Times Square Church! The 4 hour trip seems to get shorter and shorter each time I go!! I am so thankful that the Lord has allowed such a testimony of HIMSELF in this dark hour!!

S
sermonindex

Great testimonty dear brother. Here is the sermon I believe you heard yesterday by Carter Conlon:

[b]The Spiritual Measure of Spiritual Success[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=14577

J
jordanamo

Times Square Church seems like a huge church though, I'd feel completely lost.

Jordan

N
Nellie

How Blessed you have been to have gone to this Church.
I have most of their Video's, and some of their DVD's.
They certainly preach Christ.
I live in Ga., so don't know if I will ever get to go or not.
Thanks for sharing your visit, and I'm so glad God Blessed you. I pray He will continue to bless you.
Nellie

B
BenWilliams

I wish the church of Christ would heal the deaf people instead of signing for them.

I
iansmith


BenWilliams wrote:
I wish the church of Christ would heal the deaf people instead of signing for them.

Maybe you should start a prayer ministry for people with deafness -sometimes this kind is only healed by prayer.

Or maybe Paul's thorn in the flesh was just a literal thorn and he left it in there hoping that God would pull it out and God didn't... or like most theologians believe, Paul had a sickness that wasn't cured or healed by God.

I think your comment was ignorant and hurtful, it shows someone who's never had to deal with the handicapped... if it was only that easy, don't you think they feel the same way. Thank God there are churches out there that sign their message for people with hearing disabilities.

Ben, go volunteer at a children's hospital or old folks home... otherwise keep your ignorant hurtful comments to yourself. You think you were being smart by saying something witty, but it's painfully obvious that there's nothing in your heart for these people.

M
Mattie

BenWilliams... have you healed the deaf lately?

D
death2self

It's a great church and they preach a straight word. I finally made it up there last August and had a wonderful time of fellowship. I've listened to hundreds of sermons from here and would highly recommend TSC.

My wife and I went to Birmingham back in 2004 and that was a real blessing to spend time with Pastor David and Pastor Gary, as Pastor Neil for several days. Lord willing we will make it back sometime this year.

B
BenWilliams

Sorry everyone if my comment offended, I've just been suffering lately from seeing so many churches, and no power.

I haven't healed the deaf personally, but I have seen them healed. And I have seen God use me to heal many other sick people. But I don't like to talk about that, as it causes problems with most people I talk to because they don't believe in God's power.

I apologize profusely to anyone who thinks my comment was out of place.

But I still hold to my opinion, I have worked with deaf people, and blind people, and paraplegics, and the paralized.

And what they need is God's power, not a signing ministry, don't you see, that it caters to the natural, and not the spiritual.

A blind man needs his sight, not someone to tell him everything around him.

And in the same way, a deaf man needs his hearing, not someone to show him what has been said.

It doesn't happen because men and women have no faith in God.

I know that most won't agree with me on this, but I know one man who would, and he saw thousands upon thousands healed. His name was Smith Wigglesworth.

So sorry to offend, but most of the truth is an offence.

By the way, times square church is an excellent church with excellent pastors.

I
iansmith

I like the fact that you didn't reference or even try to grapple with 'Paul's Thorn in the Flesh.' The fact of the matter is that there isn't always a miraculous healing, even in cases when everyone is a true believer. God let Paul suffer through an ailment even though he was serving the Lord feverishly -no one can dispute the annointing of Apostle Paul.

I was just downstairs in the conference room -after thirty years one of the ministries of the organization I work for is closing down, it was an adoption ministry. One of the people who spoke told a story about a couple in NJ who adopted a blind Chinese girl -this girl has subsiquently given her life to Jesus and He has transformed her in many ways. She's still blind, but not bound!

Signing ministries are a need, these people are doing one of the things that the bible talks about, how can they 'hear' without someone to tell them! Maybe they could get print-outs of the sermon notes ahead of time and read along...

How old are you?!

B
BenWilliams

It's just that I don't recall Jesus or the Apostles signing so that the people could hear the message.

They healed them all, and then preached. The signs and wonders bearing witness that what they said was true.

What are sick or lame people to think of a church who claims to have the power of Christ, but cannot heal them?

Jesus told the disciples why the man was not healed, it was because they did not have enough faith. Then He healed the man. Notice that He did not tell them that it was because people don't always get healed.

[b]That is the destroyer of faith.[/b]

H
hmmhmm

the reasons why people don't get healed are quite clear in scripture, but In some cases God maybe wants you to have that "sickness", i visited a website constructed to "destroy" Christianity, one of its main arguments was

-why wont God heal amputees?

i admit id would take much faith in praying for someone whit both legs amputated, but when i think about it, i believe God can do it, he an do anything. Do i believe he does do that? yes i do, Ive never seen it myself, but still i believe some people are blind, sick, amputated, cancer....whatever...God allowed them to get sick for whatever glorious reason he has....

sometimes people try and pray away what God wants us to have

I
iansmith

One name for you: Fanny Crosby
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanny_J._Crosby

You've probably sung her hymns, you've probably even wept at the words (assuming you listen to the words)... get to know the woman behind them.

One time someone asked her if she'd like to recieve sight, she answered them, "when I get to heaven, the first face that shall ever gladden my sight will be that of my Savior!"

Can you say the same thing, would you give up your sight if it meant that the first face you would ever see would be that of Jesus?

From the Article:
Crosby was never bitter about her disability. At the age of [b]nine[/b] she wrote these verses about her condition:

Oh what a happy soul I am,
Although I cannot see;
I am resolved that in this world
Contented I will be.
How many blessings I enjoy,
That other people don't;
To weep and sigh because I'm blind,
I cannot, and I won't."

She later remarked:

It seemed intended by the blessed providence of God that I should be blind all my life, [b]and I thank him for the dispensation[/b]. If perfect earthly sight were offered me tomorrow I would not accept it. I might not have sung hymns to the praise of God if I had been distracted by the beautiful and interesting things about me.

B
BenWilliams

the reasons why people don't get healed are quite clear in scripture, but In some cases God maybe wants you to have that "sickness",

[b]This is not found in scripture, it is not in the Bible. That was broken by the blood of Christ. Sickness is a curse, and it is God's will for everyone to be healed according to the scriptures.[/b]

admit id would take much faith in praying for someone whit both legs amputated, but when i think about it, i believe God can do it, he an do anything. Do i believe he does do that? yes i do, Ive never seen it myself, but still i believe some people are blind, sick, amputated, cancer....whatever...God allowed them to get sick for whatever glorious reason he has....

You see, I have seen these kinds of things in person, I have seen cateracs dissapear from a womans eyes. I have seen wounded unsaved soldiers healed and throw down their crutches. And I have seen legs grow out to their proper length. I have prayed for people in wheelchairs that could not walk, and they stood to their feet and walked.

[b]I am not afraid to admit that the reason I have not healed more people is because my faith is weak, I do not trust God fully. But one day I will, and many will be healed because of it.[/b]

[b]sometimes people try and pray away what God wants us to have[/b]

Exactly, men with faith do not try to pray for healing, they do it, and people are healed because of it. It takes Holy Ghost fire to believe God for healing.

B
BenWilliams

I know all about fanny crosby, and I believe it is a shame to the curch of that era that they could not heal her as they should.

I know everyone likes to commiserate with the sick, and feel sorry for them, but real compassion is what Christ had, and He healed the sick, all of them.

I daresay that if fanny crosby had met Smith Wigglesworth, she would have been healed.

To assume that Jesus did not want her healed, I would believe to be another error.

You see, all of these posts that counter it, only prove further that it is because men do not believe in God.

Smith wigglesworth preached more about having faith to believe God, then probably any other subject. And if you read about him, you can see the results of his faith.

I
iansmith

... I-I I really cannot express how dumbfounded I am at the things that you're saying, they're so heartless and insensative, no, so IGNORANT!

I already asked you but you didn't reply, how old are you?!

H
hmmhmm

well where did i get my faith from? where did you get your faith from?
didn't you receive that from God? or is it something we can work up ourselves? just my thoughts, Ive heard testimony's about people who got cancer and where absolutely sure God gave them the deices and also said the pain was so intense they wouldn't which anyone else in such pain but still that pain was the best thing ever happened to them because it brought them closer to God, i believe God can use diseases, blindness , even kill your kids if he has to , to get you to the place he wants you... if that Menes being sick... you are gonna get sick...


i believe it is a curse, but Christ broke that curse ...why do we get sick then? Christ defeated sin on the cross to...the devil to,
still we sin,
still the devil can fool us,
we can still get sick,

i believe miracles happened, i even believe dead can come alive, i believe what is in the bible.

You say you don't find that in the bible, in my bible God sends evil spirits into people for disobedience,,,shouldn't he send a diseases to if he needs to do that?


Mar 1:32 And at even, when the sun did set, they brought unto him all that were diseased, and them that were possessed with devils.
Mar 1:33 And all the city was gathered together at the door.
Mar 1:34 And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him.

all people came but he "only" healed many...

God don't heal everyone....

but as you say, i do believe the amount that could have been healed could also be bigger today,

B
BenWilliams

I'm sorry, I missed that question, I am twenty.

And I realize that you probably think it is youthful zeal and ignorance. But I have spent probably more time on this subject than almost anyone I have met.

Have you ever studied Smith Wigglesworth, John G Lake, Charles Parham, Oral Roberts, Evan Roberts, Maria Woodworth Etter, Kathrine Kuhlman, Jack Coe, James Seymour, Alexander Dowie, Aimee Semple McPherson, A.A. Allen, William Branham?

I am not the only man who backs up my opinion. I don't need their backing anyways, I have the scripture and that is enough.

But I do not believe anything I have said to be insensitive. If you were to ask any deaf person what they want from church, healing or signing, you know what the answer would be.

It is not insensitive of me to desire God's will for them, and to pursue it until it is obtained.

[b]It is insensitive, and ignorant to settle for someone not being healed as though God wants it that way.[/b]

Some require fasting, and holiness, and faith. And then they will be healed.

I
iansmith

Ben, you know the most frustrating thing to me is, that I know and have known people like you, so proud, so convinced of their own knowledge (I myself am guilty of this pride) -yet when God smacks them with the truth, they either break into a million pieces before him or run away from the faith.

God is going to have to break your understanding of how he works. I'm sure he's going to try, and usually the bigger they are, the harder they fall.

Have you ever had a loved one get sick -really sick. Have you known someone close who has gotten a brain tumor or some other form of cancer? Someone who's been told by their doctors that they only have a certain number of months to live, or less.

I don't think you have, I think you're too wet behind the ears. You assume that you know the whole mystery of God -how God works and how he doesn't work. Well guess what, that's pride and that's ignorance. I pray that when God goes to break that pride that it won't destroy your faith too -and I hope it isn't going to cost you someone close to your heart for Him to teach you that lesson.

B
BenWilliams

You know, what you say could be exactly what God is trying to show you.

[b]I appear proud because I do not accept what will damage my faith.[/b]

I have had many people die in my lifetime, and much of my theology was put to the test, I had a grandmother who went into a coma after having cancer for about five years, and then died.

[b][i][u]And the conclusion that I came to was that if I had prayed more, and fasted more, and sought God until I could scarcely breathe another prayer. I know she would have been healed. Had I walked as a man of God ought, I would not have eaten until she was raised up, I would not have left my room until Gods power touched her. But I was a weak empty vessel who did not know the meaning of seeking the Lord.[/u][/i][/b]

You do not know the trials my faith endured, to establish my faith in Gods power, it is not a debatable issue in my mind. I will never again make the same mistake. Oh yes, I made the mistake, God was waiting for a man to make their move, and none made it.

Not only that, but I lost three of my granparents in the span of about one year. I know the loss of loved ones, and I will not know it again unless it is God's time for them to go. Sickness will never prevail again.

H
hmmhmm

i will pray for you Ben, in the verses i gave you you can see that Jesus didn't heal all people, i know there are places in the bible he does heal all the sick, but we cant make a doctrine out of one or a couple of verses in the bible... thats what the sects and cults do, what we need to do is take all scripture that speaks about this matter and study it, there you will get the whole picture,

I
iansmith

The problem with your conclusion; sometimes it's just time for them to pass on. Sometimes no matter how much we pray we cannot change what God's plan is.

When Moses prayed for Israel after the made the Golden Calf, God didn't smite them, that's true, but they never returned to the plan that God had originally had for Israel.

The fact of the matter is that even your heroes in the faith who preached this 'faith healing' that you're so caught up in have passed away. Smith Wigglesworth died in 1947 at the age of 88. He lived a full life, but not anything supernatural.

When we submit ourselves to God's plan we also realize that it's God's plan, not ours. God listens to prayer, but he always has one of three answers, yes, no or wait. Sometimes when we pray for healing he says no, just like he did to Apostle Paul.

You are in error in your belief, you need to let go of this heretical belief -I will not deny that faith healing is biblical, and does still happen, however it cannot be applied to every situation 100% of the time. By all means we should pray for every person who is sick, but we must also understand that God allows sickness, or even uses sickness to his own ends as we saw in the book of Job, or even in the recent Tsunami and Katrina disasters.

P
PreachParsly

I know all about fanny crosby, and I believe it is a shame to the curch of that era that they could not heal her as they should.

I know everyone likes to commiserate with the sick, and feel sorry for them, but real compassion is what Christ had, and He healed the sick, all of them.

I daresay that if fanny crosby had met Smith Wigglesworth, she would have been healed.

To assume that Jesus did not want her healed, I would believe to be another error.

You see, all of these posts that counter it, only prove further that it is because men do not believe in God.

Smith wigglesworth preached more about having faith to believe God, then probably any other subject. And if you read about him, you can see the results of his faith.

Do you think Paul was a shame to the church during his time? :-?

2Ti 4:20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.

I'm sure you have studied Wigglesworth and know about his own illness and his daughter's right?

I respect Wigglesworth and Paul highly, even though not everyone around them was always healed.

B
BenWilliams

Understand that there is no place in scripture where Jesus prayed for someone and they did not get healed.

Everyone He prayed for was healed.

I know that old age is a natural death, and I have no problem with someone who is old dying.

But cancer is not natural, it is an enemy, a creature lower than my feet, and cannot be tolerated at all.

God does release judgment upon people, sometimes in natural disasters, sometimes in sickness, but once they repent, they are to be healed.

There is no case in the New Testament where God made someone sick to bring them closer to Him. That is a heretical theology.

I
iansmith

I know that old age is a natural death, and I have no problem with someone who is old dying.

What are natural causes? Wikipedia is quick to answer:

[b]Death by natural causes[/b]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_causes

In medicine, death by natural causes is a [b]loosely-defined term[/b] used by coroners describing death when the cause of death was a [b]naturally occurring disease process[/b], or is not apparent given medical history or circumstances. Thus, deaths caused by active human intervention (as opposed to the failure of medical intervention to prevent death) are excluded from this definition, and are described as unnatural deaths.

The majority of deaths in most countries are due to natural causes, and the majority of those deaths occur in old age[citation needed].

[b]In the United States for example, the most common natural cause of death is heart disease, accounting for 30% of all deaths there. Cancer causes an additional 25% of all US deaths.[/b] Other common natural causes are stroke, Alzheimer's disease, congenital anomalies, genetic disorders (such as cystic fibrosis), serious infections, and respiratory disorders (figures as of the year 2000).

Heart disease and cancer make up more than 50% of deaths in old age... both are considered natural causes. That means that one in every two people in the United States is going to die in old age of either heart disease or cancer. I can't imagine that the statistic was better in Jesus' time -most likely worse.

H
hmmhmm

Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth4374 with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth3811 not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.


chasteneth,3811
Thayer Definition:
1) to train children
1a) to be instructed or taught or learn
1b) to cause one to learn
2) to chastise
2a) to chastise or castigate with words, to correct
2a1) of those who are moulding the character of others by reproof and admonition
2b) of God
2b1) to chasten by the affliction of evils and calamities
2c) to chastise with blows, to scourge
2c1) of a father punishing his son
2c2) of a judge ordering one to be scourged

dealeth4374
Thayer Definition:
1) to bring to, lead to
1a) one to a person who can heal him or is ready to show him some kindness, one to a person who is to judge him
1b) to bring a present or a thing, to reach or hand a thing to one
1c) to put to
2) to be borne towards one, to attack, assail
2a) to behave one’s self towards one, deal with one


God uses sometime pain...whitch he sends upon you becuse he loves us, it can come as a decease brother, it can come in what way God in his sovereign almighty wisdom choses to be best for you and for me.

P
Psalm73

You despise the chastening of God, and believe that he only uses men for his wrath, and that he wants to save all good people?
Romans 3:23All have sinned abd lack the praise that is of valour before God. (1525 with todaytext)
Hmm, yes Christ gave his apostles power to heal, cast out devils and preach against idols?
90% of Christians have little or no understanding of idols and .1% of christians realize it's the stephen doctrine (I mean you're so hated for preaching against images,)
Obey God, for blessed are the maintainers of peace, for they shall be called the children of God. and Matt 5:11-12 *K.J Blessed are ye when men shal revile you, and persecute you and say all manner of evill falsely against you, for my sake. Refjoyce, & be exceeding glad; for great is youre reward in hevenl for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Remember Christ came not to send peace on earth, but rather a swerde.

H
hmmhmm

Sickness, disease, decay, and death

(J. C. Ryle, "Christ in the Sick Room")

"Lord, the one You love is sick!" John 11:3

Sickness, disease, decay, and death are the
common lot of all mankind without exception.

The human body is a most frail and complicated
machine. From the sole of the foot to the crown
of the head, there is not a part of us which is not
liable to disease. When I think of the variety of
ailments which may assail our bodies, I do not
wonder so much that we die at last--as I do that
we live so long.

But whence comes this liability to sickness,
disease, and death?

The fall of man at the beginning has brought
sin into the world, and sin has brought with
it the curse of sickness, suffering, and pain.

God sends sickness in order to do us good. It is
a friendly letter from heaven. It is a knock at the
door of conscience. Happy is he who opens the
letter and reads it, who hears the knock and opens
the door, who welcomes Christ to the sick room.

Regard your sickness as . . .
a blessing in disguise,
a good and not an evil,
a friend and not an enemy.

S
sermonindex


BenWilliams wrote:
Understand that there is no place in scripture where Jesus prayed for someone and they did not get healed.

Everyone He prayed for was healed.

[b]Isn't that because Jesus only prayed for those whom the Father directed. So of course they were all healed!

The lame man at the Beautiful Gate wasn't healed until after the Resurrection - through Peter and John. But Jesus must have passed him several times on His way in or out of the Temple, so he's an example of someone Jesus didn't heal - not then.

There were a dear elderly couple, friends of mine. The wife had a severe haemorrhage in her head, and could eaasily have died. The Lord gave us (some of her friends) assurance and [i]a specific word[/i] that she should be healed, and she was. The word was psalm 118:17 "I shall not die but live, and declare the works of the Lord"

A year or so later the husband was diagnosed with cancer, but this time there was no assurance that he would be healed (not because it was cancer - I know people who have been healed from that when there was no human hope).

In fact the word given was what Simeon spoke, "Lord now lettest thy servant depart in peace, for mine eyes have seen thy salvation".

Brother Ben, I can understand your zeal, and your passionate desire and belief that all should be healed. You sometimes (not meaning to)come across as rather rude and insensitive because of it :-( . Everything seems starkly black and white to you, after the manner of young men.

What would we do without the energy and drive, and faith of such as you! Zeal misdirected sometimes, but also so uncomplicated, no compromise, straight down the line! You perceive something as truth and - right or wrong - you go for it, 100%.

But you must also be willing to respect the wisdom of others, some of whom have been on the road a lot longer than you.

Paul said to Timothy, "Let no one despise your youth", but he also said, (1Tim 5:1) "Do not rebuke an older man but exhort him as you would a father".

Jeannette
[/b]

H
hmmhmm

i agree whit our sister here, we could use more people whit that kind of faith... but brother i post another article here for you, i could try and explain it to you but someone else always said it better anyway :-)

God is at the root of our sufferings

(MacDuff, "Encouragements to Patient Waiting")

"Affliction does not come forth from the dust,
neither does trouble spring out of the ground."
Job 5:6

Of all things, the most difficult is to truly realize
"the need be" for our own personal trials.

We inwardly think . . .
that our lot is a very hard one;
that our cross is the most painful;
that our suffering the most agonizing;
that our path the most thorny.

And all this arises from the fact that we have
not discovered the "need be." How could we?
At the best, our spiritual eyesight is weak and
dim. We cannot know the real state of our souls,
or see them as He does, whose searching scrutiny
detects the slightest symptom of disease. We
imagine all is well when we are sick, wounded,
ready to die. We imagine that all is right with
the heart, when faith is weak, love cold, hope
almost obscured.

Only gradually, after having been long in the
school of trial, do we begin to realize that the
Physician must probe the wound within us,
and apply severe remedies, and cause pain
and anguish, in order to cure the malady which
is preying upon us. Only then can we rightly
comprehend our former weakness, and thank
God that in tender love He cared for us . . .
not hesitating to inflict pain,
not withdrawing His hand,
not sparing the rod,
that He might do us good in the end.

Reader, it is when we come to know and realize
this, that we begin to reap the benefit of affliction.
So long as we attribute it only to 'second causes',
there will be no submission, no gratitude, no praise.
It is when the discovery has been made that God is
at the root of our sufferings--that He is desolating
our comforts, robbing us of our joys with His own hand
--when every grief and pang, every sorrow and anxiety,
are felt to be His work--when we cannot banish Him
from our thoughts, nor disconnect Him from one of
our troubles, nor even wish to do either--it is then
that the soul begins to consider, and the heart to
soften, and our proud, rebellious, stubborn spirit
to give way.

Only let us see that a Father's hand has mingled
our cup of bitterness, and the Comforter will come,
even when our heart is almost broken, and inspire
the trembling utterance, "The Lord gave, and the Lord
has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord!"

Affliction will be sent again and again, until we learn
to sit loose to the world, and have our chief joy in God.

"I was silent; I would not open my mouth, for You
are the one who has done this!" Psalm 39:9

S
Santana

I LOVE TIMES SQUARE CHURCH!!!

C
ChrisJD

Hi eveyrone.

Ben, how are you? I saw this which you posted here and something came to mind...


I appear proud because I do not accept what will damage my faith.


What came to mind was the scripture where it says,

[i] Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God.[/i]


Now the context does not apply here, but I wonder if there is a principle that does? If what you say is true, maybe this is something better left demonstrated, than procalimed, or contended for at the expense of offending or even(I hope not) insulting others, especially those who may be our elders.


Well, something to consider.

Chris

D
Dan777

Ben:

I'm an avid reader of Smith Wigglesworth, John G. Lake, and many others that you mentioned in a previous post. The ministry of Dr. Lake was so effective in the area of healing that a lot of Hospitals in Spokane Washington shut down because the people were getting healed in his 'Healing rooms". Thats why he was called "Dr. Lake"!

I agree with you, the truth is offensive! Jesus offended a lot of people, including his own disciples, John 6:61. He upset a lot of traditional religious thinking.

Healing was in, and part of the old covenant. The religious leaders did NOT get upset with Jesus for healing people, they only got upset when he did it on the sabbath day.

Nowhere in scripture does it say that Jesus admonished someone to "continue to be sick so God can be glorfied." Only traditional, dead religious thinking would carry such an opinion! Healing is part of the Gospel package. If a church is not preaching healing, then it is NOT preaching the Full Gospel!

1Pet2:24 He (Jesus) bore our infirmities and carried our diseases and with His stripes we ARE healed" Jesus already took all or sicknesses and diseases upon himself! When he walked the earth he healed people on an individual basis. When he suffered FOR US, thats when he healed us all on a collective basis, now what we have to do is believe that, and stand on that Word of God and tell our bodies to line up with it. The Word of God is true and it must come to pass!

It is not hard to pray for an amputee. Its only as hard as we make it! The difficulty is that we have our eyes on ourselves and what people might think if healing doesn't instantly manifest, instead of on Jesus and what he as already done. We think our reputation is at stake, but its Gods reputation that is on the line not ours! If we were truly dead to ourselves we wouldn't care what anyone thought.

You just stay on fire, Ben! God is going to use you!

The rest of the 'unbelieving' believers can just 'hide and watch"!

Dan

I
iansmith

The rest of the 'unbelieving' believers can just 'hide and watch"!

hmmm

B
BenWilliams

Heart disease and cancer make up more than 50% of deaths in old age... both are considered natural causes. That means that one in every two people in the United States is going to die in old age of either heart disease or cancer. I can't imagine that the statistic was better in Jesus' time -most likely worse.

Let me say about this, I don't believe disease to be a natural cause. Cancer is a disease, and heart disease is a disease(thats why it is called heart disease)

Now, when people get old, they die, their hearts stop and they die, they stop breathing and they die. That is natural death, any kind of disease is not natural.

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BenWilliams

God uses sometime pain...whitch he sends upon you becuse he loves us, it can come as a decease brother, it can come in what way God in his sovereign almighty wisdom choses to be best for you and for me.

I already addressed this, repentance and then healing. No exceptions.

H
hmmhmm


BenWilliams wrote:


I already addressed this, repentance and then healing. No exceptions.

i know unbelivers , enemys of God who was healed and afterwards they did not except christ....how do you explain that? becuse they never repented...

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BenWilliams

Brother Ben, I can understand your zeal, and your passionate desire and belief that all should be healed. You sometimes (not meaning to)come across as rather rude and insensitive because of it.

Everything seems starkly black and white to you, after the manner of young men. What would we do without the energy and drive, and faith of such as you! Zeal misdirected sometimes, but also so uncomplicated, no compromise, straight down the line! You perceive something as truth and - right or wrong - you go for it, 100%.

But you must also be willing to respect the wisdom of others, some of whom have been on the road a lot longer than you.

Paul said to Timothy, "Let no one despise your youth", but he also said, (1Tim 5:1) "Do not rebuke an older man but exhort him as you would a father".

Jeannette

Jeannette, I thank you for your gentleness in correction, I sometimes fail to no how to exhort older men because they so often are rooted in unbelief. I try to be gentle at first, but if resistance to the truth is continued, I will intensify my correction holding as much respect as I can for his opinion. But I will not back down simply because they believe themselves to be wise.

My whole life I have been surrounded by older men, so I have taken advantage of that to learn their wisdom, but in so doing, I also know how they think. And they place their own life experience above the word of God. When that is done, I bring scripture to its proper place.

If you have any advice on how to exhort them properly, but still bring correction, without being rude, I am all ears. But I will not soften the truth for any man. Old or young.

[b]
As for everyone Jesus prayed for being healed, it was because he prayed for the ones that His Father told Him to. But He still healed all of them, John says if the signs and wonders He did were all written down, that thhe world could not contain that much writing. We often act like the only stuff Jesus did was what we read in scripture, when what He really did was about twenty thousand times that much stuff.[/b]

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BenWilliams

i know unbelivers , enemys of God who was healed and afterwards they did not except christ....how do you explain that? becuse they never repented...

That is not what is being addressed. People were healed in Jesus time who did not believe, they crucified Him. Why did He heal them?

We are addressing whether God uses sickness to draw men closer to Him.

[b]I have one thing to say about that, prove it through scripture in the New Testament.[/b]

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BenWilliams

Now the context does not apply here, but I wonder if there is a principle that does? If what you say is true, maybe this is something better left demonstrated, than procalimed, or contended for at the expense of offending or even(I hope not) insulting others, especially those who may be our elders.

Chris, thank you for your input, I am always open to correction, but this to me is not about my faith, it is about the faith of those around me, we are commanded to stir eachother up, and even more as we see the end approaching. But almost the only thing I can find is men who blame God's will for their lack of faith. They then tell me I am prideful because I don't listen to their counsel on how God doesn't always heal people.

But what they fail to realize is that we were [b]commanded[/b] to heal the sick, and not some of them, all of them. So I cannot accept their unbelief.

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myfirstLove

Ben, what little gift said was good, about Jesus doing only what He sees the Father do. He healed all He was sent to. There was certain areas He was not able to heal because of THEIR faith.

There was a time He couldn't heal not because He lacked faith, but because THEY lack faith.

Matthew 13:58

58And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

1 Timothy 5:23
No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities.

Why didn't Paul pray for Timothy to get healed or tell him to pray to Jesus for healing?

2 Corinthians 12:10
Therefore I take pleasure in [b]infirmities[/b], in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

This verse above shows that infirmities are also use to make us weak that we may be strong in Christ.

I believe in healing too, and I believe also that the reason why their isn't much healing today is because the church's lack of faith, but I also believe that not all sickness are to be healed. Some sickness are there to make us more dependent on God and for other reasons I don't know, but God knows and thats why it is important to be Spirit lead.

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BenWilliams

2 Corinthians 12:10
Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Tell me How Christ is strong, unless He heals the infirmity?

When He only healed a few because of their unbelief, He only prayed for the ones who would be healed. He knew their hearts.

As for Paul not praying for Timothy, it only doesn't say it there. If you read other passages, Paul says he is in intercession for them continually. So he was praying for his healing. Perhaps Paul knew by revelation that if Timothy would drink some wine he would be healed. Perhaps not.

Sometimes we are unhealthy because we don't eat right. The solution for that is not healing, but to start eating right. You don't pray for an overweight person to lose weight, you instruct them to eat right.

I
iansmith

I sometimes fail to no how to exhort older men because they so often are rooted in unbelief. I try to be gentle at first, but if resistance to the truth is continued, I will intensify my correction holding as much respect as I can for his opinion. But I will not back down simply because they believe themselves to be wise.

And while you're saving Israel from the clutches of Pharaoh, why don't you go kill someone while you're at it. God had to send Moses out to the back side of the desert for fourty years to learn how to shut-up, I think you need a bit of this ministry yourself. That was the most gently I could put it.

It seems like you really like Leonard Ravenhill, have you ever seen yourself as the person he's rebuking, or do you always see someone else in your mind's eye?

I cannot say anything to you, you've already decided that I'm unwise and in need of rebuke. It doesn't matter that I'm involved in missions or working for a Christian ministry... it doesn't matter that I'm your elder and have experienced more than you have, in your eyes I'm wrong no matter what I say.

Well I guess that's liberating in it's own way. But I really don't think that is the heart of this forum.

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Branded4him

Oh how we can spend our whole lives debating someone who doesnt see as we think they ought to see. We spend our whole ministry fighting off the ones who disagree and never once preach the cross of Christ.

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myfirstLove

Tell me How Christ is strong, unless He heals the infirmity?

really?

what about Job? Job would be a good example of using sickness as a TRIAL. Job, got delivered from his sickness, but it wasn't immediately. Job had to suffer some.

2 Corinthians 1:9

9 Yes, we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves but in God who raises the dead,

This verse is a good example how God doesn't immediately deliver us sometimes from certain things wether it be sickness, persecution, ect.. so that we may learn to depend on Him.

When He only healed a few because of their unbelief, He only prayed for the ones who would be healed. He knew their hearts.

Exactly! So when you see a sick person not being healed, who are you to say that it is because the christians who does not have faith (unless God shows you, wich you admit your not there)? It could be the sick person's faithlessness.

Your making too many assumptions on paul and timothy thats not there.

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myfirstLove

brandedforhim,

Its o.k. to sharpen each other. Your also assuming things. How do you know that I'm not preaching the cross of Christ? You do not know me to even say that. I say the cross is definetly one thing I am continually always preaching and always talking about among my people and desire to live. And it is definely the cross that I am persecuted for, (not physically, but verbally) , but I am not complaining because I believe it is the power of God to those who believe.

H
hmmhmm

i found this, ive used it in another thread also :-) i think we can apply it to this subject to....even if it is important,

'I was preparing to go to Nyack College. Before I left there was one burning question I had in mind, and I went to Dr. Tozer and said, “Could you give me some advice concerning the problem of Calvinism versus Arminianism?”
And I’ll never forget the advice he gave me. At the time I thought it was rather inconclusive and not too helpful. But I listened carefully. He said, “My son, when you get to college you’re going to find that all of the boys will be gathered in a room discussing and arguing over Arminianism and Calvinism night after night after night. I’ll tell you what to do, Cliff. Go to your room and meet God. At the end of four years you’ll be way down the line and they’ll still be where they started, because greater minds than yours have wrestled with this problem and have not come up with satisfactory conclusions. Instead, learn to know God.”'
-Cliff Westergren


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Santana

Go to your room and meet God.

I really needed to hear that. Thanks Hmmmhmmm. (I hope I spelled that right =)

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iansmith

That is a really awesome quote... AW Tozer was one of a kind!

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Branded4him

Thank you so much for sharing that Hmmmm amen I say we all need to take that advice sure know I do. You hit it right on the mark. Thank you so much for sharing this.

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myfirstLove

I like the quote too. Definetly when it leads to an arm/cal debate! But, I didn't see any harm in talking about the healing topic until brandedforhim mention some of the post were not edifying. So I reread the posts again. Its o.k. to talk about things in the bible. Unless, you are arguing and filled with pride, then I would encourage those people to put down their sword.

But, I agree with brandedforhim, now,that I thought about some of the post again. some of the post was very unloving.

Thanks brandedforhim for the encouragement.

God bless

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hmmhmm

its good to remember... words of wisdom..its easy o get carried away in a discussion and go from "correcting" a brother in love to the "being right just to be right" and instead of unity we divide the body, of course this is a discussion that is needed. but lets choose our words and examine our motives for posting.

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markitats

As much as I enjoy a discussion about God healing people, because I too have worked with children and adults with disabilities, it just strikes me that how one person’s joy, can be another’s person nightmare. I am referring to how Tinluke (Tina) started off by praising God because of her experience at Times Square Church and a fellow brother started in on a subject that was not the heart of what Tinluke was saying. Though, discussing the power of God in healing is very necessary, this topic was about someone praising God for what He allowed her to experience. Tinluke never questioned God’s ability to heal the deaf. Though, Ben I do understand your concern. This topic of healing is for another topic. This topic is about praising God, not questioning whether He will heal some and not others.
Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 RSV
1 For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven: 2 a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted; 3 a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5 a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; 6 a time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; 7 a time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8 a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.

Forever His,
Mark

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sermonindex

So sorry to offend, but most of the truth is an offence.

its spelled "offense", or you could have wrote "most of truth is offensive"......or you could have capitalized "Truth" to undeline THE Divine Truth of God, which can be offensive. Just trying to help, writing is an art, and a gift from God, but I ask you this?

Is there no balm in Gilead?

neil

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hmmhmm

i did some search on the INTERNET, and to me this "doctrine" or teaching comes from false prophets and teachers, thats my take on it, what i mean that this WOF doctrine is basically what Benny hinn and Copeland and the others are teaching... and i do have a different view on scriptures then they have, and also on this healing thing,

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sermonindex

death is healing.

to cast aside this jar of clay and to join the Assembly in the Heavenly Jerusalem.

Thats not depressing at all, thats heavenly.

to be with Jesus, neil

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BenWilliams

And while you're saving Israel from the clutches of Pharaoh, why don't you go kill someone while you're at it. God had to send Moses out to the back side of the desert for fourty years to learn how to shut-up, I think you need a bit of this ministry yourself. That was the most gently I could put it.

Perhaps you are right, if you met me in person, you would think I was a quiet and withdrawn individual most of the time, so much so, that when people meet me they often think I am close to ten years older simply because I listen to others so intently. I am very slow to speak, I take careful consideration in deciding upon the words that I choose. And many times I do it so much as to be at fault for not speaking when I should. But perhaps you are right.

It seems like you really like Leonard Ravenhill, have you ever seen yourself as the person he's rebuking, or do you always see someone else in your mind's eye?

I always see myself as the one being rebuked, my heart is far too stagnant, and my lifestyle is not holy enough. My prayer life is faltering at best. If I were to see others as the ones that the message was for, how could God ever speak into my life. But if I take the message and only apply it to myself, then I am equally guilty.

I like Leonard Ravenhill very much, but even he had his flaws. I do not draw all my water from one well, it will always go dry unless it is Christ. I like many preachers, Art Katz, Andrew Strom, Paris Reidhead, etc...

I cannot say anything to you, you've already decided that I'm unwise and in need of rebuke. It doesn't matter that I'm involved in missions or working for a Christian ministry... it doesn't matter that I'm your elder and have experienced more than you have, in your eyes I'm wrong no matter what I say.

Is that supposed to be justification for unbelief in your heart?

Paul warned Timothy, "Don't let anyone dispise your youth".

I follow the same warning, age holds no upperhand on the truth, neither does experience in ministry, or even being a missionary. Many missionaries have died, without ever having a true faith in God's power. I have been surrounded my whole life by elders, some who had faith, and many more who did not. The ones who did not have faith, bore far less fruit.

In my eyes, you are not wrong no matter what you say. You are wrong when you do not accept what the word of God says, and try to interpret it by your experience. Just because the word does not fit your experience, does not make it void. Your belief should not be affected by an experience, but by what the scriptures teach.

[b]Men blame God all day long for their unbelief by ascribing it to His will.[/b]

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BenWilliams

Exactly! So when you see a sick person not being healed, who are you to say that it is because the christians who does not have faith (unless God shows you, wich you admit your not there)? It could be the sick person's faithlessness.

Show me this situation in scripture, the New Testament to be exact, show me by Jesus life where He ever said it was His will for someone to remain sick.

[b]This challenge goes to everyone else posting in this forum as well. Christ is the example, prove your opinion through His example and then you have grounds for your belief.[/b]

Your making too many assumptions on paul and timothy thats not there.

I disagree, my assumptions are based upon other scripture, while the countering assumptions are based upon unbelief and peoples experiences.(which are not to be placed above what the word teaches)

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BenWilliams

Let me state once and for all, that I am not a word of faith doctrine person, they have their own set of issues to deal with. So do copeland and Benny Hinn as well.

I do not claim now, nor have ever claimed perfection, and my purpose in this forum is not to argue with everyone.

[b]My purpose is to stir up faith, and stir up holiness, wherever I go, there is always a repercussion for it. I am not in any way threatened by it, neither am I deterred by peoples offense at what I say.[/b]

The scripture clearly teaches that it is God's will to heal everyone, if you do not believe that, I feel sorry for you. If you do believe it, praise God, let's go heal the sick.

I am sorry that so many people here are offended at my original comment, I don't understand why anyone is offended at it.

Was my comment incorrect in some way? I do not believe so, I believe it was in exactly the right place, and it has revealed the hearts of many people. Whether anyone agrees with that or not, will not change my opinion of it.

[b]I realize that God can get glory from someone signing, how much more glory can He get from healing a deaf person![/b]

So much unbelief in the power of God, does it not say that we shall have anything we ask if we have faith and do not doubt?

[b]Why then do so many doubt, and rebuke faith?[/b]

That is not of God, nor should it be allowed to go unchecked.

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hulsey

Here's the link to a booklet I transcribed into the forum that might be of help:

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=3305&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go]Trophimus I Left Sick: Our Problems With Divine Healing[/url]

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Burn4Christ

I agree with Ben, why in the world was anyone offended by his original comment. The saints that have represented themselves in this thread I think have pulled him every which way, because they don't fit in their box. Do I agree with everything he has said..no, but it "seems" (it may not be the case), but it seems like you guys are trying to crucify him over the most smallest measure. Picking his posts apart piece by piece. If he wants to believe all should be healed. SO WHAT, so did most of everyone else in Gods Generals. Some of you guys have really gotten upset over this issue, and I think have taken it too far. I will say this, you cannot deny the manifestation of God's power from healing evangelist that have the same belief

suffering - It was the way of the master, should not the servant tread it still.

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tinluke

Thanks Mark,

I so appreciate what you said!!My intention was to give God the glory in sharing my experiences at TSC. Not to create a debate on healing. I was so blessed to see God's provision for the death people at Times Square Church. When I tell you that the women was glowing with the Love of Christ for each person there...you would have to see it yourself to understand what I saw. Just thinking about her face actually gives me goosebumps. I know that may seem alittle silly, but like I said you would have had to seen it yourself. HE is an awesome God and He loves His people so much!! Not everyone receives a healing, but what a joy that everyone who seeks HIM will receive HIS LOVE and LIFE!!! That is the point of the gospel...isn't it?



markitats wrote:
As much as I enjoy a discussion about God healing people, because I too have worked with children and adults with disabilities, it just strikes me that how one person’s joy, can be another’s person nightmare. I am referring to how Tinluke (Tina) started off by praising God because of her experience at Times Square Church and a fellow brother started in on a subject that was not the heart of what Tinluke was saying. Though, discussing the power of God in healing is very necessary, this topic was about someone praising God for what He allowed her to experience. Tinluke never questioned God’s ability to heal the deaf. Though, Ben I do understand your concern. This topic of healing is for another topic. This topic is about praising God, not questioning whether He will heal some and not others.
Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 RSV
1 For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven: 2 a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted; 3 a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 5 a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; 6 a time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; 7 a time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8 a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.

Forever His,
Mark

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PaulWest

The scripture clearly teaches that it is God's will to heal everyone

Brother, where in the scripture does it say it is God's will to [i]physically[/i] heal everyone? In this line of reasoning, death would equate to lack of faith. To die would be to sin (instead of the other way around). Well, Ravenhill had a stroke. Wigglesworth lost Polly, and his daughter was deaf. Maria Woodworth-Etter lost all her children. Matthew Henry died of apoplexy. Elisha got sick. George Mueller wore glasses. Christmas Evans was one-eyed. H. Spafford lost all four of his daughters in shipwreck - how could God allow this to happen? The man who wrote the unforgettable music for Spafford's hymn "It is Well with My Soul" (the genesis of this immortal hymn, I believe, being the reason God allowed his daughters to drown) was himself killed in a train wreck two weeks later. David Wilkerson lost his precious granddaughter to cancer. Are you prepared to write Rev. Wilkerson a letter of admonishment? Spurgeon wore bi-focals. Art Katz is very ill - maybe someone should write a letter to Ben Israel and tell them Art's physical healing is in the atonement! William Gurnall, the author of "The Christian in Complete Armour" was so sick and frail he couldn't travel in the winter and had to turn down many an opportunity to speak. Isaac Watts was often ill and confined to his bed chambers. McCheyne had a very poor constitution, as did tuberculosis-ridden David Brainerd. Look at poor John Sung heaving and wheezing like a lawnmower afer a preaching engagement. Do you not think these men knew what you purport to know about the "healing-in-the-atonement" truth? What you say casts shame upon all their ministries and puts you in a rather inauspicious light concerning this topic.

Brother, I do understand your zeal, and I believe God supernaturally heals in the physical through the laying-on of hands (for I myself have been miraculously and instantaneosly healed), but to say this type of healing is cookie-cuttered is not wise. It is not scriptural. God desires all men to be [i]saved[/i], the healing in the atonement is more from the death blows of sin, than it is the ailments of the flesh. But God certainly heals our sick flesh, and I praise Him for that! But to say [i]all[/i] men should be physically healed of cancer and sickness because of the new covenant? This is not wise, and is actually a sign of spiritual immaturity and displays a deficit in the knowledge of God's sovereign ways.

No, brother. God can permit a person to become sick, and he can very well do it for his glory. His ways are far more excellent and beyond our faulty, mortal logic. Human logic says this: "I see a sick person. God should [i]heal[/i] this sick person to glorify his name. Therfore, [i]I'm[/i] going to step out and lay hands and have faith that he'll do it!"

This can be selfish, fleshly and, paradoxically, a demonstration of your [i]lack of faith![/i] Jesus certainly didn't go about doing this; he didn't go clear out entire leper colonies and raise up legions of rotting corpses in the Jewish cemeteries. Ben, if you are not soaking yourself in the Word and constantly mortifying the flesh and taking rogue thoughts into captivity, you will miss the will of God. A one-size-fits-all mentality will infect your understanding of the gospel. You will conveniently relegate all miracles and healings into a cookie-cutter mold. Believe me, I used to do this! I was a young, upstart preacher, reading too much Wigglesworth and not enough scripture - knowing the truth all along that God sometimes doesn't heal for his own perogatives, but willfully denying it to boost my flesh to see others miraculously healed in Jesus Name!

No, brother. Learn from the older, wiser saints. Learn from the Puritans. Learn from Ravenhill and Spurgeon. Learn from David Wilkerson and Keith Daniel and AW Tozer and George Whitefield. But if you run indiscriminately after healing and miracles and try to cookie-cut Wigglesworth or Lake in your youthful zeal...well, I would just as soon save you from all the disappointment and confusion.

Brother Paul

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ChrisJD

Dear Ben,


My purpose is to stir up faith, and stir up holiness, wherever I go, there is always a repercussion for it. I am not in any way threatened by it, neither am I deterred by peoples offense at what I say.


[i]neither am I deterred by peoples offense at what I say[/i]


Brother, this concerns me!

What of all the warnings in the scripture about causing offence? I checked on this, and according to Strong's, the word translated offense is


G4624
σκανδαλίζω
skandalizō
skan-dal-id'-zo
To “scandalize”; from G4625; to entrap, that is, [b]trip up[/b] (figuratively stumble [transitively] or entice to sin, apostasy or displeasure): - (make to) offend.

I put [b]trip up[/b] in bold.


Brother, this website is veiwed in hundreds of coutries all over the world and who knows who may be reading these pages! Please consider what you are saying here and before whom you are saying it. Please.

Chris

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strawrifle

Hi all.I also love time square church..i'm 41 now, but as a young teenager of 15, i had a unsaved RE teacher who would read run baby run to us..He was obsessed with the book but didn't know why..I remember rushing to buy it that first night..God changes our lifes,but He sure used that book in mine..


I work with disabled people..my best friend and boss is extreamly disabled..I asked him if he would want to be healed,and he was rather disappointed with me..To be healed sometimes is not the outside Ben..My friend is healed inside and thats what counts..

aj

edit i should say "run baby run" is about the gang leader Nicky Cruz, who was one of the first guys David Wilkerson witnessed to..

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sermonindex


BenWilliams wrote:
Sorry everyone if my comment offended, I've just been suffering lately from seeing so many churches, and no power.


...But I still hold to my opinion...

... don't you see...

A blind man needs his sight, not someone to tell him everything around him.

And in the same way, a deaf man needs his hearing, not someone to show him what has been said.

Hey Benny boy...

I say Benny Boy for a couple of reasons. First of all, I am not much older than you and I can still be considered a boy with my limited understandings. Secondly, you stated that you were a man. Do you really have what it takes to have this responsibility? Are you still living with your parents? Are you paying any bills?

I also know you state that you are not perfect, but that is an easy way of escape, so you are not beheaded here on this forum. We are all to be as children: boys and girls. You are trying to grow up, as I was, much too fast. Slow down, listen, understand, and respect what people are trying to say. Each time anyone says something, you come back with some cocky know-it-all response.

I give you credit though. You have a lot of intelligence. When I was 20 I had a lot of zeal too, but not for God. No one could tell me anything that I did not already know or anything that I did not want to hear. No one will want to debate or discuss anything with you because you 'hold to your opinion'.

I read both the Times Square Church and Healing threads. You come across as very arrogant. Your heart seems to be in the right place, but your mind seems to be getting in the way. By experience, I know the older I get, the less I know.

You suggested that people (we) here do not see and you go on to proclaim what the blind and deaf NEED. What do you know about others' needs? You also state that you have seen so many churches without power. Where are you going? Where have you been? I am from Canada and have experienced many churches filled with the Spirit, which in turn had sufficient 'power'.

Not to mention, all the churches that I have been to here in South Korea and the ones in Greece and Turkey.

(on a side note, which this thread was originally about.....Seoul, South Korea has/had the largest membered church in the world. I attended it twice and it was a tremendous blessing. They speak Korean, but have translators. Ben, with your logic, I should have prayed for an ability to speak their language, rather than use the headphones which were provided to help me worship the Lord...anyway).

Ben, there are many things that you said over the two threads that need some adjustment. You do not need to be adjusted in your love for the Lord, but your attitude towards others. I am sure you will come back with a final word and quote and point out where I am wrong, but most people here are trying to help, not hinder your faith.

This is a place of learning, so that we are better equiped to share the gospel and help others find the Way. We are all blind and deaf to some degree, but thank God we have Jesus to show us the Way, so that when we go to heaven, NO ONE WILL HAVE ANY AFFLICTIONS, BLINDNESS, CANCERS, DEAFNESS, or DISEASE of any type. God's ways and times are much different than anyone of ours. We will be all healed. Some now, some tomorrow, some next year, but some not until they see Him face-to-face.

Be patient Ben, we have a lot to learn, but together, we can learn a lot. To some degree, I wish I had your love, when I was your age. At this point, I am happy that I have the love of Jesus to say... Ben, I love you and want to see you fight the good fight. We are not to fight with one another. We would be wasting our time, when we ought to be out saving souls.

God Bless those that listen before speaking,
BrianMira

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sermonindex

death is healing.

to cast aside this jar of clay and to join the Assembly in the Heavenly Jerusalem.

Thats not depressing at all, thats heavenly.

to be with Jesus, neil

I thank you for this, Bartle.

You know, I am 22 years old now. At the beginning of the summer, my father passed away after 3 years of very painful struggling. Throughout this time, I held on to a word that I believe God spoke to me at the beginning of it all from Psalm 91:

"Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name. He will call upon me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble, I will deliver him and honor him. With long life will I satisfy him and show him my salvation."

I have never believed more strongly that I had heard the exact voice of God when I read that verse after crying out to God one evening.

I believed he would be healed, and I had scores of others believing with me. My dad even believed that God could heal him. Indeed, he did experience some temporary healings. We were told 5 times that he had less than 24 hours to live, and each time he would miraculously recover. He lived long enough to be able to baptize me, which was such an amazing honor (he couldn't physically baptize me, but another did while he said the words).

Can you imagine how I felt the morning he died when it suddenly seemed as though God, His Word, my faith had failed me? There of course has been a lot of blame that I have put on myself. "If I just could have done something different." No, brother, I did believe and didn't doubt.

And in my anger as I yelled towards God demanding an answer to why he didn't heal my dad, I suddenly had the greatest blessed assurance that my dad has received the greatest healing that I could have ever prayed for. His answer was so different than mine, but so far exceeds anythings I could ever ask for.

I still struggle with it. I am weeping as I type. I am learning to see how blessed that time when he was sick actually was, and to not hold myself accountable for his death. My dad grew more in his faith during his illness than he ever did in health, and people came to faith in the Lord because of it.

I will probably post a different thread asking for prayer for my family, but it is related so I will also include it here. If any of you could, please pray for my mother, as she was taken to the hospital today with some sort of heart trouble. I have a 17 year old brother, and I really don't want to lose both of my parents.

-K_DAY

I
iansmith

K_Day, thank you for sharing, that really put's a lot of things in perspective. I will pray for your mother and your brother. I wish I could hug you right now, my eyes welled with tears when I read your post. I will pray for the Lord's hand to be upon your family in this hour of trial. I'm sure that your father is already interceding on your behalf before the throne of glory! What a glorious day it will be when we'll all be praising him together before the thrown!

I
iansmith

I just want to say that after reading what Brian and Paul wrote I really feel my age! I'll hint, younger than Brian and older than Ben.

I think I came down hard on Ben (as I've mentioned already) because I see a little of my own error in him... well error that I've recognized and been rebuked of, and been guilty of on this forum as well.

But yeah, reading Paul and Brian, I was like, 'wow, that's what I wanted to say, how come I couldn't say it like those guys.' Well maybe because I still like scrapping a little... or because it was a good excuse to neglect my work today haha!

Ben, listen to Paul, listen to Brian, read K_day's post, and ask for the touch of the Lord on your heart.

In the past I've had to fast from this forum in order to get my heart in the right place, i've said nasty stuff before and taken a week or a month away before I felt him giving me the OK to come back. I'm not saying that you should leave, but understand that this is a place where you can get rebuked just like at your home church, but there's more responsibility on you to recognize a rebuke for what it is, and to spend time with the Lord to make it right.

H
hmmhmm

All the afflictions which attend the people of God, are such as shall turn to their profit and glorious advantage.

Afflictions discover that filthiness and vileness in sin, which the soul has never yet seen.

Afflictions contribute to the mortifying and purging away of their sins. Afflictions are God's furnace, by which he cleanses His people from their dross. Affliction is a fire to purge out our dross, and to make virtue shine.

Afflictions are medicines which heal soul diseases. Colds and frosts destroy vermin; so do afflictions destroy the corruptions which are in our hearts. The Jews, under all the prophet's thunderings, retained their idols; but after their Babylonish captivity, there have been no idols found among them.

Afflictions are sweet preservatives to keep the saints from sin—which is a greater evil than hell itself.

Afflictions assist to make us more fruitful in holiness. 'But He afflicts us for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.' The flowers smell sweetest after a shower; vines bear the better fruit, after pruning. Saints spring and thrive most internally when they are most externally afflicted. Afflictions are called by some 'the mother of virtue.' Manasseh's chain was more profitable to him than his crown. Luther could not understand some Scriptures until he was in affliction.

God's house of correction is his school of instruction. All the stones that hit Stephen's head, did but knock him closer to Christ, the corner-stone.

Afflictions lift up the soul to more rich, clear, and full enjoyments of God. God makes afflictions to be but inlets to the soul's more sweet and full enjoyment of His blessed self.
Christians, by their afflictions, gain more experience of the power of God supporting them, of the wisdom of God directing them, of the grace of God refreshing and cheering them, and of the goodness of God quieting and quickening of them to a greater love to holiness, and to a greater delight in holiness, and to a more vehement pursuing after holiness.

Afflictions keep the hearts of the saints humble and tender. Prosperity does not contribute more to the puffing up the soul, than adversity does to the bowing down of the soul. This the saints by experience find; and therefore they can kiss and embrace the cross, as others do the world's crown. The more the purest spices are beaten and bruised—the sweeter scent and fragrance they send abroad. So do saints when they are afflicted.

Afflictions bring the saints nearer to God, and to make them more importunate and earnest in prayer with God.

Afflictions revive and recover decayed graces; they inflame that love which is cold, and they quicken that faith which is decaying, and they put life into those hopes which are withering, and spirits into those joys and comforts which are languishing. Most men are like a top, which will not go unless you whip it, and the more you whip it the better it goes. You know how to apply it.

Those who are in adversity do better understand Scriptures. The more saints are beaten with the hammer of afflictions, the more they are made the trumpets of God's praises, and the more are their graces revived and quickened. Adversity abases the loveliness of the world which strives to entice us; it abates the lustiness of the flesh within, which strives to incite us to folly and vanity.

The afflictions which attend the saints in the ways of holiness, are but short and momentary. 'Sorrow may abide for a night—but joy comes in the morning' (Psalm 30:5). This short storm will end in an everlasting calm; this short night will end in a glorious day, that shall never have end. It is but a very short time between grace and glory; between our title to the crown and our wearing the crown; between our right to the heavenly inheritance and our possession of the heavenly inheritance. What is our life but a shadow, a bubble, a flower, a runner, a span, a dream?

It will be but as a day before God will give his afflicted ones beauty for ashes, the oil of gladness for the spirit of heaviness; before he will turn all your sighing into singing, all your lamentations into consolations, your sackcloth into silks, ashes into ointments, and your fasts into everlasting feasts!

There are none of God's afflicted ones, who have not their intermissions and respites while under their short and momentary afflictions. When God's hand is on your back, let your hand be on your mouth, for though the affliction be sharp, it shall be but short.

It is mercy that our affliction is not execution—but a correction. He who has deserved hanging, may be glad if he escapes with a whipping.

God's corrections are our instructions,
His lashes are our lessons,
His scourges are our schoolmasters,
His chastisements are our admonitions.


Afflictions-Brooks

D
Dan777

Question for all the 'unbelieving' believers: What kind of a Loving Father would want His children to be sick? No decent earthly father is that cruel!!! But you'll turn right around and put it on our Loving Heavenly Father in a second, won't you??!! I can just see a father talking to his son, "Go ahead, Johnny, have cancer for daddy and let the neighbors see what a loving father I am, after all, its makes me look good! Besides, I have to imitate God, (Eph 5:1), and sometimes its Gods will for daddy to be sick, so I have to let you be sick too!" Yeah, right! That man would have child welfare, and the police on his doorstep in a second!

You people that believe its God's will for us to carry sickness will turn right around and take your own sorry selves right to the doctor in an attempt to get out of the 'will of God'! Does the term Hypocrite mean anything to you?

Your Christianity is real easy. You're never challenged to believe God for anything! But you get 'offended' by the slightest thing! Sorry, I don't believe in humanistic Christianity with politically correct speech! If you don't like what I have to say, too bad!

The book of Jude admonishes us to 'fight for the faith'. Fight-Fight-Fight! This is a warfare were in (Eph 6), and a lot of Christians are AWOL! Worse than AWOL, they figthing along side the enemy, and thats TREASON!

Christianity is not what it used to be. I have been a Christian for 40 years, and I have learned that just because someone carries the Christian label, does not make him a believer!

If Ben's first post offended you, I guarantee this one really did!

Dan

S
sermonindex


K_DAY wrote:
death is healing.

to cast aside this jar of clay and to join the Assembly in the Heavenly Jerusalem.

Thats not depressing at all, thats heavenly.

to be with Jesus, neil

I thank you for this, Bartle.
Psalm 91:

"Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name. He will call upon me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble, I will deliver him and honor him. With long life will I satisfy him and show him my salvation."

I have never believed more strongly that I had heard the exact voice of God when I read that verse... He lived long enough... which was such an amazing honor ...he said the words...

No, brother, I did believe and didn't doubt.

... I ... had the greatest blessed assurance ... far exceeds anythings I could ever ask for....

...came to faith in the Lord because of it....

... prayer for my family... please pray for my mother, as she was taken to the hospital today ... I have a 17 year old brother...

-K_DAY

Hey Brother K_DAY...

You have been going through some tuff times lately, but as I read your post I noticed one consistant theme...you are strong.

You are doing everything right for your family and I am sure you do other things for other people, as well. Keep it up!

You must not get down on yourself, for you have Christ in your corner as THE source of strength. No matter what happens, keep your faith. Many more unfortunate circumstances will happen in all our lifetimes, however, we do not have to live our life as though we are unfortunate.

We serve a mighty good God and I am sure He is keeping special watch over your family, especially during these times. I am also sure, with the extra prayers you are receiving from us here on SI, everything will work out as planned.

Keep listening for that exact Word and voice of God and you will continually have blessed assurance that all works out better for those that believe. We are healed through him, one way or another.

God Bless You, Your Brother, and Your Mother,
BrianMira

S
sermonindex

Danny boy,

Take it easy, you might hurt yourself. By the rant that you just went off on, I would have bet you were no more than 14, let alone over 40! If you have been a Christian for over 40 years, then I will have to bow out and go find out what it means to be Christian, because you do not display anything remotely close to what I have been taught.

As for the book of Jude, I know it is the shortest book in the Bible. Did you happen to read any of the other 65, over those 40 years?

I will say that I am a little sorry, up-front, for being sarcastic, but come on Danny... did you read what you just wrote?

God Bless those that Bless others...
BrianMira

S
sermonindex

p.s. Danny, I just read all of your 5 posts... you seem to be a touchy person. Why does everything (5 posts) make you so upset? Nothing has that warm loving feeling that some people call...love...I don't know, maybe it's just me. :-(

B
BenWilliams

[b]To Paul West[/b]

I never said that everyone is healed, but I did say it is God's will for everyone to be healed.

I still am waiting for someone to prove through the New Testament that it is not God's will to heal everyone using Jesus as the example.

[b]It has to be proved with scripture[/b]

I do not deny, that in the lives of every one of the men and womens names that I quoted that their were people who were not healed. That does not in any way change the fact that God wanted them to be healed. You cannot prove otherwise through the New Testament.

Brother, where in the scripture does it say it is God's will to physically heal everyone?

Are we to live by Christ's example or not?
Christ healed everyone He could, and He always had compassion on the sick and diseased. When He had compassion, He healed them. So we are to do the same.

When did God ever state that death was His will?
This argument has got to have the least grounds by scripture, and has been posted numerous times on this thread. God's will is life, healing, always. Do people die? YES, but Jesus called death the enemy, something He had to conquer, hello. It is unnatural, and it is because of what? Sin, that's right. But we all have to die because of Adams sin. So when it is time for someone to die, let them pass.

[b]But if you let them pass, and you should have healed them, you will be responsible to God for your actions. The fire shall try every believers works...[/b]

B
BenWilliams

Dear Ben, neither am I deterred by peoples offense at what I say


Brother, this concerns me!

What of all the warnings in the scripture about causing offence? I checked on this, and according to Strong's, the word translated offense is
G4624
σκανδαλίζω
skandalizō
skan-dal-id'-zo
To “scandalize”; from G4625; to entrap, that is, trip up (figuratively stumble [transitively] or entice to sin, apostasy or displeasure): - (make to) offend.

I put trip up in bold.


Brother, this website is veiwed in hundreds of coutries all over the world and who knows who may be reading these pages! Please consider what you are saying here and before whom you are saying it. Please.

Chris

[b]Chris, I want to thank you for your concern, but I would like to know when we are ever told to be concerned about offending people with the truth?

Jesus said, "Better you find out today, and be offended by my words, then it would be to wait until the day of judgement."[/b]

B
BenWilliams

I say Benny Boy for a couple of reasons. First of all, I am not much older than you and I can still be considered a boy with my limited understandings. Secondly, you stated that you were a man. Do you really have what it takes to have this responsibility? Are you still living with your parents? Are you paying any bills?

If you really want to know, no I do not live with my parents, I am married, and live in an apartment. I have enough bills for anyone to be happy with, and I also own my own company besides my regular job.

This does not make me an expert on life, but my age, and life experience have nothing to do with interpretation of the scriptures. If what I say is right, then it is right. If it is wrong, well you get the point.

Each time anyone says something, you come back with some cocky know-it-all response.

I really do not understand where peoples opinions of this come from, I answer peoples posts with as much grace and respect as I can, but it is my purpose to rightly divide the word of truth, so when someone posts something to me that is in error, I post the truth back. I do not do it pridefully or arogantly, but I do it with sincere belief that what I say is true.

I think that the people on here who think my arguments are prideful, think so because they are unsure of their own beliefs.

[b]Now, at the risk of sounding prideful...I would like for someone to show me something that I have said in this thread that was prideful, and why it was so. If you are right, I will apologize, if you are wrong, I will correct it.[/b]

No one will want to debate or discuss anything with you because you 'hold to your opinion'.

I will only hold on to my opinion if it is grounded in scripture. If someone else is right about something, you might be surprised at just how quickly I will back them up. You assume that because I don't back down on this issue before numerous posts, it means I am stubborn, well I hope I am stubborn when it comes to right doctrine, and that I will be tender when someone shows me error in what I believe.

You suggested that people (we) here do not see and you go on to proclaim what the blind and deaf NEED. What do you know about others' needs? You also state that you have seen so many churches without power. Where are you going? Where have you been? I am from Canada and have experienced many churches filled with the Spirit, which in turn had sufficient 'power'.

[b]Why did Peter heal the lame man? Didn't he know that it was God's will for the man to be sick and lame? He should have showed him how to love the Lord, that man probably didn't NEED to walk. Rubbish! Peter healed him because he knew it was God's will to do so.[/b]

By the way, have you been to America lately? Where the church is a stagnating wordly enterprize? There is no power in the church here in America, it is so dead it screams death to anyone with a tiny bit of sensitivity to the Spirit. And yes I know that there are many wonderful Christians doing wonderful things for the Lord. But they aren't healing the sick...They aren't doing signs and wonders and Miracles. They are a bankrupt church.

As for all the places I've been, I have moved in my lifetime about, 25 times, maybe a little less, maybe a little more. And I have been to almost every denomination of church available outside of Roman Catholicism. And they are all dead, yeah, God is trying to work in a few of them, but they don't really believe in Him.

On another note, I don't believe that there is a church in the world today which has sufficient power, there are some that have a tiny bit of power, but the world is still lying in darkness, and until that changes, it is because there is no church with sufficient power.

(on a side note, which this thread was originally about.....Seoul, South Korea has/had the largest membered church in the world. I attended it twice and it was a tremendous blessing. They speak Korean, but have translators. Ben, with your logic, I should have prayed for an ability to speak their language, rather than use the headphones which were provided to help me worship the Lord...anyway).

Praise God, they have a lot of members! Do they have any authority over demons, are they casting them out? Are the sick being healed? Are diseases being put to flight through prayer? So they have bodies, I pray they get the Spirit of God in them.

Ben, there are many things that you said over the two threads that need some adjustment. You do not need to be adjusted in your love for the Lord, but your attitude towards others. I am sure you will come back with a final word and quote and point out where I am wrong, but most people here are trying to help, not hinder your faith.

I realize that many of them are trying to help, and to the ones who have been genuine, which I know you are as well, I have taken extra time to meditate on what they have said, my responding to them if I disagree does not make me prideful. It only means that I disagreed. It is not fair of everyone on this thread to accuse me of being prideful simply because I do not accept their "helpful" opinions. The problem is that that is just what they are, opinions. And until they study the word, and draw their opinions from it, and not their own experience, then I have nothing to give heed to.

If you go back to the beginning of this thread and watch my responses to people, you will see a genuine difference in my response to people who are just shooting off their mouth, and my response to the genuine.

[b]Just because there are people trying to help, it does not make them helpful. Most people cannot handle any conflict, and are trying to end the conversation "helpfully". This conversation is causing people to examine what they believe, and prove whether it is wrong or right. That is iron sharpening iron.[/b]

I'm sorry that you think I am so prideful, I really don't have any understanding what I have done that constitutes pride.

B
BenWilliams

[b]Danny Wrote:[/b]

Question for all the 'unbelieving' believers: What kind of a Loving Father would want His children to be sick? No decent earthly father is that cruel!!! But you'll turn right around and put it on our Loving Heavenly Father in a second, won't you??!! I can just see a father talking to his son, "Go ahead, Johnny, have cancer for daddy and let the neighbors see what a loving father I am, after all, its makes me look good! Besides, I have to imitate God, (Eph 5:1), and sometimes its Gods will for daddy to be sick, so I have to let you be sick too!" Yeah, right! That man would have child welfare, and the police on his doorstep in a second!

Amen Danny, its amazing to me how many people believe in a God who is actually a tyrant. But all they want is love, love, love.

If they would just imitate the God they have imagined, then we could have honest discussions. The problem is that they tarnish my God with their false beliefs about Him.

You people that believe its God's will for us to carry sickness will turn right around and take your own sorry selves right to the doctor in an attempt to get out of the 'will of God'! Does the term Hypocrite mean anything to you?

[b]Careful Danny, nobody likes it when you pierce through their hard outer shell, and expose the heart issues.[/b]

Also Danny, take some encouragement, just about everyone on hear is very quick to criticize passion, I think it must be because their passion died a long time ago.

P
PaulWest

Ben Williams wrote this:

But if you let them pass, and you should have healed them, you will be responsible to God for your actions. The fire shall try every believers works...

and this:

So when it is time for someone to die, let them pass.

Okay, Ben. I don't understand. Do I need to have a medical backround to differentiate between those with sickness and those just "dying"? Is this practical - and even more so - scriptural? If you ask me, this sounds like good ole interpolation on your part, especially when you stick the "you will be responsible if you let people die" in conjunction with the trying fires of 1 Cor. 3.

And you still haven't proven from the New Testament that its God's will to [i]physically[/i] heal everyone cut-and-dry and no matter what. Using Jesus as an example proves nothing, because Jesus didn't heal everyone cut-and-dry. You'll have to find a different proof-text, and you can't use Paul or Timothy as examples either. Why didn't the apostles raise up Steven?

I can tell you that God does not want the gospel of Christ to be cast to the swine and dogs. He is not wanting that any should perish, but when the Holy Spirit departs, this is what happens. And the Holy Spirit departs, this is scriptural. How do you reconcile 2 Peter 3:9 in light of this? I have been around people whom I've clearly been forbidden to witness to. It is a very sad thing to have to shake the dust off your sandals, but this is also part of the discriminate teachings of Christ.

Brother Paul

B
BradW

I still am waiting for someone to prove through the New Testament that it is not God's will to heal everyone using Jesus as the example.

This may not be a scripture directly related to physical healing but perhaps, more importantly, spiritual.

(I hope this doesn't side track the thread to a calling/election discussion)

Luke 18 - the rich young ruler
He came to Jesus, Jesus told him what he needed to do, he walked away. Notice that Jesus DID NOT run after him.

Do you think Jesus thought more highly of physical healing than of eternal life??? And yet, He let this man walk away rejected. Doesn't it say that He creates some vessels for honour and others for dishonour?

Talk to Brother Yun or Paul Washer about suffering and he'll probably tell you that had he been relieved of what he went through, he would never have grown in the Lord.

Just a thought...maybe God is healing someone when they physically die. No more pain, no more suffering, no more sickness.

M
myfirstLove

Ben, you have much zeal without knowledge.

You admit that you are not there, so you need to focus on bearing the cross, and when you do bear it daily then you can really say you have passion for Jesus.

To vent out how much you want Jesus and believe His word does not mean you are truly passionate. If we are not walking in the light we have, the truth we know, it just means we are zealouse hypocrites.

Let us end this discussion and go to the cross.

Luke 14:27
27And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple

1 John 2:15
15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Any objection to the carryings on of our present gold-calf Christianity is met with the triumphant reply, "But we are winning them!" And winning them to what? To true discipleship? To cross-carrying? To self-denial? To separation from the world? To crucifixion of the flesh? To holy living? To nobility of character? To a despising of the world's treasures? To hard self-discipline? To love for God? To total committal to Christ? Of course the answer to all these questions is no."
-A.W. Tozer

1 John 5:4-6
4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

B
BradW

If they would just imitate the God they have imagined, then we could have honest discussions. The problem is that they tarnish my God with their false beliefs about Him.

and,

just about everyone on hear is very quick to criticize passion, I think it must be because their passion died a long time ago.

You should cover up your flesh before you're naked.

P
Provost

I think y'all should read Goldminer's post in the healing thread. I think it is a great BALANCED view on seeking the Lord and healing.

B
BenWilliams

Just so everyone knows, I am going to up-shop, and move over to the thread called: "healing". It is too much work to carry on two threads about the same subject. If you have a post that I have not answered, just please post it in the thread "healing" and I will respond to it there.

For any reference of posts, refer back to this thread, as it has more posts in it than does the other. Thanks, Ben

D
Dan777

Brian:

There is difference between being 'touchy' and being passionate.

When you can discern the difference, talk to me.

Dan

S
sermonindex

precious tears you weep brother. Tears are cleansing, healing and they strengthen. If all there was, is this world, then we are truly in hell. Thats why my heart bleeds for atheists, what fear they live in, that THIS is all there is, how death has them bound in chains of fear.

its either fear or faith.

I can see your dear dad, on the far banks of the Jordan, along with Jesus, waiting with open arms for us both.

Jesus has freed us from the chains of death, we are His servants, and He promised NEVER to let us go.

I love you, and the Lord love you, neil

S
sermonindex

there is a difference between being "passionate" and walking in the Grace and Love of Jesus.

there are plenty of jihadi's who are "passionate", zealots, ugly and cruel, but they are "passionate", you better believe it.

Walking around with semtex strapped around their bodies, all too ready to show their "passion".

the tenor of your writing, the fruit of your keyboard, thats the testimony, you pop onto a forum with less than 10 posts itching to be offensive?

ok.

May God bless you and burnish you, is my prayer, neil

H
HomeFree89


bartle wrote:
there is a difference between being "passionate" and walking in the Grace and Love of Jesus.

there are plenty of jihadi's who are "passionate", zealots, ugly and cruel, but they are "passionate", you better believe it.


neil

Wow, that's a good point! I need to remember that.

Thanks Neil,
Jordan

C
ChrisJD

Ben,

"...but I would like to know when we are ever told to be concerned about offending people with the truth?"

Your question assumes the answer.

James warns,

[i] My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.[/i]

In your case, you are not teaching a few people, the words you write here can be seen all over the world.


Besides this, the scripture says the Lord [b]hates[/b] [i]he that soweth discord among brethren[/i].


Jesus said [b][color=660033] wisdom is justified of her children.[/color][/b]

[b][color=660033] wisdom is justified of her children.[/color][/b]

of her children

of her children.

V
vico

John 11:4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

Praise the Lord Brethren!

S
sermonindex


Dan777 wrote:
Brian:

There is difference between being 'touchy' and being passionate.

When you can discern the difference, talk to me.

Dan

Dan,

Even that response says nothing about the Jesus I know. But like I said, I will bow out to you and find the true meaning of Christianity.

God Bless You in Your "Passion for Christ",
Brian

S
sermonindex

vico...

Your posts always make me smile, well, the ones that seem to be the flower among the weeds.

Keep to the truth.

May God Bless You,
BM

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