I've been to a few "christian" rock shows

I just thought I would share my experiences at some of these shows. First off, when I was in the world, I was addicted to music. The harder the more I liked it. I had gone to maybe 75 shows in about 4 years. I loved the whole experience. Almost 4 years ago is when God saved me. About a month after I was saved, I burned a little over 1000 cds that i collected over the years. I started looking for music that matched my personal taste, and I found a bit of it.
I started going to christian rock shows and getting into their music. Recently God has been pulling me deeper and showing me a lot of things. I went to two shows this year and was totally sickened by them. It was all entertainment. I know its not scripture, but I couldn't help but think of Ravenhill saying "Entertainment is the devils substitute for joy." I started to think back to all the shows that I had seen in the last couple of years, and could only think of two bands that came out with a message. These two took songs out of their sets to preach the gospel. They didn't just preach for a minute, but 10 to 15.
Since then I have listened to maybe 2 cds. All I want to hear is preaching anymore. I believe God has pulled me away from that scene. Don't get me wrong, There are rock bands that do preach, and are great, but I would say there are only a few. This is a very brief post on from where God has brought me from.
Riding for the King,
Adam

I believe God has pulled me away from that scene.

I'm sure that in time God will also direct you to music that will bless him and inspire you. You don't have to go looking for it.

Diane

Christian music started going down hill when they allowed the secular entertainment companies to own them. They traded the God of the Bible for the gods of this world, and that is who they serve now.

Extremely well put, Steve.

I keep telling people it's about the [i]spirit[/i], and not the make-up or the clothes or whatever else. Keith Green had an afro, the style of the time. He wore polyester shirts and jeans and boots. So what. The [i]spirit[/i] was different, it was genuine, his music was sanctioned by the Holy Ghost - and it still is.

Today - and I keep saying this - a different [i]spirit[/i] has pervaded the music scene, a familiar spirit that says all the right words but something is still amiss. And I believe you nailed a huge part of why this may be, Krisp, when you mentioned the merging fiduciary interests between the secular recording exectutives and the Christian artists. God cannot be mocked, and his absence from the music is tangible. The precious power that transforms lives in the direction of Christ-honring holiness and purity is gone, replaced now by ripping and surging explosions and flashing lights and poster pin-ups of pretty faces. It fosters individualism in the children, rebellion from the old paths, anything goes - piercings, tattoos, bloody video games, goofy movies, mohawks and studs. It's all good because Jesus himself was a [i]radical[/i], he was a rebel, he was extreme, the spirit tells the kids. Be a rebel like Jesus! The guys that keeping talking about holiness and hymns and conservative living are old hypocrites. They just want to stuff you into their mold.

A different spirit crept in unawares and usurped the throne of influence. When did this happen? I'm not really sure. It probably fully took over sometime in the mid-to-late 80's. You know more about this than I do, Krisp.

From what I understand, Petra had God's approval, Keith Green had it. Second Chapter of Acts (or is it Acts Chapter Two?) had it. But then something mysterious happened.

Brother Paul

I've been sitting back from this ATF/Christian rock debate. I've mostly been grieved by the harshness. I have to agree with you Krispy. The early days of contemporary Christian music were much different than today.

I thought I'd toss in some DC Talk lyrics from a song that got huge airplay on Christian stations.

I keep trying to find a life
On my own, apart from You
I am the king of excuses
I've got one for every selfish thing I do

What's going on inside of me?
I despise my own behaviour
This only serves to confirm my suspicions
That I'm still a man in need of a Saviour

CHORUS:
I wanna be in the Light
As You are in the Light
I wanna shine like the stars in the heavens
Oh, Lord be my Light and be my salvation
Cause all I want is to be in the Light
All I want is to be in the Light

The disease of self runs through my blood
It's a cancer fatal to my soul
Every attempt on my behalf has failed
To bring this sickness under control

Tell me, what's going on inside of me?
I despise my own behaviour
[color=990033]This only serves to confirm my suspicions [/color]
[color=990033]That I'm still a man in need of a Saviour[/color]
Honesty becomes me
[There's nothing left to lose]
The secrets that did run me
[In Your presence are defused]
Pride has no position
[And riches have no worth]
The fame that once did cover me
[Has been sentenced to this Earth]
Has been sentenced to this Earth

Tell me, what's going on inside of me?
I despise my own behaviour
This only serves to confirm my suspicions
That I'm still a man in need of a Saviour

[There's no other place that I want to be]
[No other place that I can see]
[A place to be that's just right]
[Someday I'm gonna be in the Light]
[You are in the Light]
[That's where I need to be]
[That's right where I need to be]

As for me, I've already got a savior...

In Christ,

Doug

We talk about a remnant existing in the church, and I do believe there is a remnant among Christian music -we must be discerning.

It is the wrong spirit to say that all 'rock music' or 'rap' is wrong, we can clearly point to examples where it was not. We must discern and see where there is fruit.

Ten years ago there was something called 'third wave ska.' It was happy, energetic music... it didn't start with secular bands, it started with Christian bands like The OC Supertones, Five Iron Frenzy and The W's. These bands have a lot of energy, and weren't afraid to spend time telling kids about Jesus.

Actually, Five Iron Frenzy even started it's own record lable called 'Five Minute Walk.' Which encouraged non-christian kids to take a Five Minute Walk with Jesus every day. They weren't owned by a big record company or the porn industry, they started their own record label.

Now these guys love to sing and play music, to them it's their career, not just a talent -they could have easily gotten jobs in the secular music industry as studio performers and kept their faith to themselves, but they chose to include their faith in their music. Certainly there are Christians who are members of secular bands who choose not to, just as there are Christians who are office workers who choose to keep their mouths shut.

Shouldn't we encourage those who are talented musicians, or who are already doing it as a career to use their skills and talents to glorify the Lord?

[b]Superpowers[/b]
By Five Iron Frenzy

Bacon bits and jalapeños on my polish hot dog
half a pound of potato chips, and a beef jerky log
I press my face to the window
a wrapper sticks to my shirt
Eight people in a stinky van
a couple more couldn't hurt

Eat some food off the floor
I've developed a taste for bread mold
Ride around in a van
don't take a shower for six weeks and

We've been given superpowers
ask us for an autograph
We sing, we dance, we'll make you laugh
don't you want to be like us?

Everyone in the band can't stand me
just because I fell off the stage
and kind of by accident
I broke the promoter's legs
Sometimes we have a deadline, for writing our songs
Five minutes left to write this one
la, la, la, la, la, la, la la

Sleep in a sleeping bag
Every floor looks the same as last night
You wake up
you drive
you play a show
and then you sleep again

We've been given superpowers
ask us for an autograph
We sing, we dance, we'll make you laugh
don't you want to be like us?

We've been given super powers
Ask about our rock and roll
our hair, our clothes, hobbies, and pets
Does he have a girlfriend yet?
I sometimes feel like I'm Holden Caufield
sometimes Jack Kerouac
I wanted to be famous, now I want to take it back

Don't want to rock the mic
don't want to meet the pope
[b]I just want to share with you
how we got this peace and hope

I once wanted to be famous,
now I want to take it back.[/b]

Well here is one song by Skillet called,

[b]"More Faithful"[/b]

All the things my feet thought to be firm
Are falling with urgency
Tearing back my false sense of security

Some say things change, nothing stays the same
But the sweetness in my ears
Safe in your arms speak the words I love to hear

You have been more faithful than the morning sun
You have been more faithful than knowing the night will come
You have been more faithful than the changing of seasons

All things I thought that I used to know
Are falling down again

Our disillusionment is how we grow
Some say things change, nothing stays the same
In a world of inconsistency
When everything's a lie,

What can cause my heart to believe
You have been more faithful than the morning sun
You have been more faithful than knowing the night will come
You have been more faithful than the changing of seasons

You have been more faithful than the morning sun
You have been more faithful than knowing the night will come
You have been more faithful than the morning sun
You have been more faithful than knowing the night will come
You have been more faithful than the changing of seasons

40 lines of nonsense... 2 lines about sharing peace and hope (no mention of Christ), and 2 lines about how bad being famous is.

Krispy,

One thing a lot of people don't realize is that you make MORE money as a Christian performer if you use the words Jesus, Christ, Savior etc. in your songs.

A lot of younger bands actually refuse to blaspheme his name for money -we can critisize Five Iron Frenzy for this... or we can see that these kids want to share some truth with the kids at their shows.

And they have tons of songs that are more spiritual... the also put out an entire CD of B-sides and funny songs.

the also put out an entire CD of B-sides and funny songs.

...and everyone here knows that we need to be 'entertained' more.

A lot of younger bands actually refuse to blaspheme his name for money

Good motives! Good on them. :-(

In case anyone can't see it, I'm being sarcastic. :-?

I thought that I saw an article where David Wilkerson went to a christian rock show and said it, more or less, had nothing to do with christianity. I thought it was a LeFevre concert. Here is the link. http://www.tscpulpitseries.org/english/1980s/ts870803.html

I may have even seen this on here in one of these threads.

Brad,

On this forum I've been accused of not having a sense of humor when I couldn't poke fun at other people. For the most part the young men of this band poke fun at themselves (and Canada) and have produced several wholesome and edifying albums.

You see, this is the thing that bugs me so much, is that your hearts are hard, you're ready to beat up anyone for listening to something different than you -even if they have a genuine relationship with Jesus...

Brad, where do you live, I'll make sure to avoid visiting!

David Wilkerson was also friends with Keith Green through their mutual mentor Leonard Ravenhill.

David Wilkerson's article has probably been taken out of context and used to attack just about everyone out there! Obviously he doesn't believe that all Christian musicians are bad, he was pointing out an example, not the whole genre.

It's people that take one verse, or one article and assume that that's the whole story and miss the context -that how heresy starts!

While we are on the topic of christian music,I have something to say. I am still driven to listen to all the music I used to listen to. I have over 500 cd's and never got rid or burned any of them. I transferred them all over to mp3, so that when I am on the computer, I could listen to them. Does this mean that maybe I am keeping one foot in the door of the world? I want to add that I HAVENT listened to them in months,but the temptation is there.I need advice on this. Tell it to me straight,am I playing with fire?
GOD Bless
John

When I was in highschool my youth pastor told me a story about how when he first became a Christian he went out into the back yard and had a friend toss him all of his vinyl records and he would hit them with a baseball bat. That sounds like a lot more fun than burning them.

Some people might try to sell them, or give them away -I remember that when I was a young man a Christian had given me all of his comic books, I was in heaven. However if we look at biblical examples these things were our idols, so we should burn or destroy them.

Then again, we don't tell someone who has an idol of materialism to burn all our posessions, we tell them to give them away -because not everyone has an idol of materialism.

I would say that if you're listening to all the same music you used to listen to than you need to pray about it, because now a lot of music that I used to listen to before I became a Christian pains my ears. I'll catch myself singing along, then listen to what I'm singing and be disgusted with myself -even things that I thought were innocent like the Beatles.

Listen for the voice of the Spirit in the matter.

Brad, where do you live, I'll make sure to avoid visiting!

OUCH! One comment (not directed at anyone)and you've condemned me and many others here.

your hearts are hard

Please forgive me if I'm blind.

Can't you tell I was being sarcastic... oh yeah, I didn't write that in my well thought out reply to your well thought out post.

I really just need to walk away... I have a little taste now of what 'people on the outside looking in' must feel, and I have no desire to taste anymore.

This forum is not a fragrant place, the grace of God isn't preached here -so many people are bound by the law.

The law can't save, only the grace of Jesus can!

How many threads are there on thiese issues? I haven't counted, but as I read them I get the sense that these threads are very pleasing to him. And yes the lower case h was intentional.

Sick at heart

Doug

Hey, John, I just saw your post, and commend you for honestly and bravely bringing up this issue:

While we are on the topic of christian music,I have something to say. I am still driven to listen to all the music I used to listen to. I have over 500 cd's and never got rid or burned any of them. I transferred them all over to mp3, so that when I am on the computer, I could listen to them. Does this mean that maybe I am keeping one foot in the door of the world? I want to add that I HAVENT listened to them in months,but the temptation is there.I need advice on this. Tell it to me straight,am I playing with fire?
GOD Bless
John

Does this mean that maybe I am keeping one foot in the door of the world?
Tell it to me straight,am I playing with fire?

I am still driven to listen to all the music
[and]
the temptation is there.

Of course, it’s not for me to tell you to burn your CD’s, and delete your files. After all the place to deal with idols is in the heart. And, absolutely anything can become an idol, even nice Christian music. Ian makes a good point:

we don't tell someone who has an idol of materialism to burn all our posessions, we tell them to give them away -because not everyone has an idol of materialism.

These words to a hymn may speak to you:
“Turn your eyes upon Jesus,
Look full in his wonderful face,
and the things of earth will grow strangely dim
In the light of his glory and grace.”

Invest your life in the Lord; dig into the Word - and the music will amazingly lose its appeal. God is sooooooo much better!!!

All I once held dear, built my life upon
All this world reveres, and wars to own
All I once thought gain I have counted loss
Spent and worthless now, compared to this

Knowing you, Jesus
Knowing you, there is no greater thing
You're my all, you're the best
You're my joy, my righteousness
And I love you, Lord

Now my heart's desire is to know you more
To be found in you and known as yours
To possess by faith what I could not earn
All-surpassing gift of righteousness

Oh, to know the power of your risen life
And to know You in Your sufferings
To become like you in your death, my Lord
So with you to live and never die

Graham Kendrick
Copyright © 1993 Make Way Music,

May God bless you, John,

Diane

I include my own post in this. Just to clarify, I am not taking individuals to task here for their personal convictions. Just the argumentative divisive spirit that seems to have laid hold on this place. Again, I think he is well pleased with our efforts. Small h once again intentional.

This forum is not a fragrant place, the grace of God isn't preached here -so many people are bound by the law.

That is determinded by the product of it's members. Careful how you bite the hand that feeds you...

The theater!

I do not hesitate for a moment to pronounce the theater
to be one of the broadest avenues which lead to destruction!

Fascinating, no doubt it is—but on that account the more
delusive and the more dangerous! Let a young man once
acquire a taste for this species of entertainment, and yield
himself up to its gratification, and he is in imminent danger
of becoming a lost character—rushing upon his ruin!

All the evils that can . . .
waste his property,
corrupt his morals,
blast his reputation,
impair his health,
embitter his life,
and destroy his soul,
lurk in the confines of the theater! Vice, in every
form, lives, and moves, and has its being there!

Myriads have cursed the hour when they first exposed
themselves to the contamination of the theater. >From
that fatal evening, they date their destruction!

Take warning then, and have nothing to do with the
theater. Avoid it as one of the avenues to the broad
road that leads to destruction. The danger is greater
than I describe. The doors of the theater are as the
jaws of the devouring lion!

"Do not follow the crowd in doing evil." Exodus 23:2

The O.C. Supertones - One Voice

1999 and the stakes is high.
Our options have come down
to either we do or we die.
We need You now more than ever.
Pull out all of the strife in the church,
get us together.
Is time running out?
I can't say I do know.
We have one day less
than we did yesterday.
So it's up to us to unite,
You wanna fight the power?
You need the power to fight.

[b]And can we sing with one voice,
if we all love the same God?[/b]
Can we agree to disagree?
And so we cry with one voice
to the only God in all the universe-
who holds us in His hands.

No more time
for us to bicker and complain,
If we're called by the same name,
there's nowhere for us to lay the blame,
except for ourselves.
And if we died to our old selves
we've come alive as God's flesh,
that makes us family.
Deeper than death,
but we don't act so tight
when there's a back to bite.
[b]Are we less like a family, and
more like a fistfight?[/b]
Are we there, but not quite
are hypocrites children of light?

My reason for posting this thread in the first place was not for an argument to break out. As I said in my first post, there are good bands out there. My reason for posting was to share a small portion of my testimony about some of the shows I have been to. The book of Proverbs says that "Only with pride comes contention". It seems that arguments are breaking out to prove that each person is right. God is dealing with me on the issue of music. Does it mean He is dealing with you, not exactly. Please, we need to stop arguing. While we sit here arguing how many people die and go to hell? There are more important things to do.
God Bless

I know we've all gone over this before. I just find it fascinating. Evidently, the intent with which we discuss this topic goes to show us how much this and the last generation loves music.

The utterly contentious part of all this is how much emphasis we push on music where little else is necessarily involved. I mean, honestly!

That and we're not understanding what is being written. We claim to understand the complex, people-oriented and psychologically charged writings of St. Paul but we bicker over lyrics and positions of bands to which their primary point is necessarily positive.

Do you think Christ ever sat down at a table and just talked with somebody for forty minutes or so? I would bet so. In fact, I bet there were times he just sat places listening to people. When he was a young lad at the temple, he challenged doctors and rabbis with his reasoning prowess.... wait, that was intellectualism in place of evangelism? My God, where did we go wrong?

John173 wrote:
This only serves to confirm my suspicions
That I'm still a man in need of a Saviour
...
As for me, I've already got a savior...

What I find utterly incomprehensible, Doug, is quite honestly how you see this as a starting point rather than a continuation of necessity. I still need a saviour, do you? I sure hope so. Does that make a difference? Just to be more blunt, do you think DC Talk thinks the lyrics portray the necessity of starting a relationship with Christ or continuing one?

If something is poetic, is the necessity in the content or in the point of it?

There is so little critical thinking going on it is astounding me.

I'm in band. We're playing pieces which have little to nothing to do with evangelical purposes. Its just about forty of us with various instruments playing. Is this a bad thing? There aren't horrid lyrics to get in the way, save for a few bits of Latin here and there. Should I set down and burn all the brass?

My advice: Let truth lay where it lay. Truth is of God, and I will be hard pressed to believe that God is so selfish as to only allow those who profess faith in him to possess it. In fact I would probably say that such a statement is the bastard pride of the Church in all its glorious failings. Yet, for some odd reason, we hold to it like it were a suckling child. If truth be truth, then we may learn of it where it is!

Oh, a daring statement that was.

Joh 8:7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her."

KrispyKritter wrote:
He saved me and gave me strength to turn my back on this filth and repudiate it. That doesn't make me any better than Toby Mac in human terms, but I did it to please God not myself or men. Apparently Toby has never repented of his own Aerosmith sin nor did he take this opportunity to repudiate Aerosmith. Instead he honors them and tells us he is 'still into it'.

I'm gonna say it flat out, if you've been there, you have no reason to condemn others for it. Well, I never have been into hard rock, and the ability for me to say I was ever "into" pop is a little loose. I've always avoided hip-hop, rap and the like. Yet I cannot say flippantly that affections for such destroy utterly any chance the soul of a man might have to honor God, musically or otherwise.

Music follows course, all music is culturally based. If music can be of the LORD in any fashion, then a consideration of its construction is most definitely necessary. Be it Aerosmith or otherwise.

The wont to steer others away from it is fine, and I really have no problem with that. However, I am pretty dang sure there is a boundary being hopped here which is a lot looser than that.

For Krispy's peace of mind, I will restate my opinion on the issue, as it would appear that everyone thinks I believe one thing about this stuff when it is just not true.

Ok, here's the deal, I like rock music, I also like almost all other styles, minus country, polka and mariachi.

I believe in listening to any music, the number one concern is the spirit in the music. There are many Christian bands who write music that the words sound good, the music sounds good, but there is just something wrong with the song.

I believe that having that first concern will cause anyone to research a bands lyrics, and observe them for a while before making a final decision on them.

I believe that in the area of clothes that the bands wear, there is a lot of bad judgment by the bands themselves on what they should and should not wear. i.e. The hardcore scene wears girls jeans. They look like homosexuals because of it. And as Krispy mentioned, there are sometimes when the women dress a little inappropriate. Overall I think that their dress is fairly well sanctioned, as they know that there will be repercussions for anything that is too out of line.

I do believe that there is a major problem with bands tring to look so much like the world, that some of them do arrive, and then become the world. They are entangled once again in its snare.

I do not believe that using the rock music to draw a crowd, or a group of young people so that preaching can be done is in any way wrong. It is no different than marching through a street playing loud music and then preaching later.

Just wondering, John (Jamccor)if you have any thoughts on my response to your post back a page or so. Am I tracking with you? 8-)

(I'll repost some of it)
Diane

You asked:

Does this mean that maybe I am keeping one foot in the door of the world?
Tell it to me straight,am I playing with fire?

I responded
I think you answer your own question:

I am still driven to listen to all the music
[and]
the temptation is there.

Of course, it’s not for me to tell you to burn your CD’s, and delete your files. After all the place to deal with idols is in the heart. And, absolutely anything can become an idol, even nice Christian music. Ian makes a good point:

we don't tell someone who has an idol of materialism to burn all our posessions, we tell them to give them away -because not everyone has an idol of materialism.

It’s in the heart where things become idols. So it’s in your heart where you must abolish your music, if that has become an idol. In fact, you can burn all your music, and still long for them more than your Lord. Can you easily let go of your music? Is God enough for you? He may very well test your loyalty by requiring you to remove it all. Just let him guide. He certainly can. He has done so in my life, that’s for sure! He once called me to burn a bunch of nostalgic stuff. So I did.

These words to a hymn may speak to you:

“Turn your eyes upon Jesus,
Look full in his wonderful face,
and the things of earth will grow strangely dim
In the light of his glory and grace.”

Invest your life in the Lord; dig into the Word - and the music will amazingly lose its appeal. God is sooooooo much better!!!

All I once held dear, built my life upon
All this world reveres, and wars to own
All I once thought gain I have counted loss
Spent and worthless now, compared to this

Knowing you, Jesus

I'v been there, and because I've lived the life and seen the destruction first hand I think that more than qualifies me to speak against it.

Aye, my experience is of little use to you, however.