YWAM

What do you guys think of YWAM if someone wants some kind of biblical schooling?(but doesn't want to do years in a seminary or bible college :-D )

But seriously...what do you know about YWAM??

YWAM is a great way to get a taste for missions. It's usually best for someone who's just out of highschool -it can be a life changing spiritual event. It's not so much a school as it's throwing into the midst of serving the poor and needy -which can be a hundred times more powerful than going to seminary if your heart is in the right place.

I don't know how it is for someone post college, I haven't really heard about many people doing it post college, I've heard about guys and gals doing it as a year break from college.

Lorren Cunningham the founder is an awesome guy and was a mentor for Keith Green. Ywamers as they're called come in all shapes, colors and sizes. Some of them get ragged on for being spiritually immature, and some of them are some of the most solid people i've ever met.

If you're post college and thinking about missions there are tons of organizations looking for people to teach and serve overseas. I strongly suggest Operation Mobilization, Mission to Unreached Peoples... in fact you can find out about more organizations at mnnonline.com or intercristo.com.

Besides YWAM you might also want to consider:
http://www.gfa.org/roadtoreality

I applied for this year long internship and was rejected based on my student loan debt... I would have dropped everything for a chance to do this internship -GFA is awesome.

To tell you the truth...every Ywamer I ever met has been on fire for the Lord. I think that's what attracted me to it.

I applied for this year long internship and was rejected based on my student loan debt

aww man...same thing might happen to me but I'm glad they do that.

Wow, I'm glad I'm not the only one -I kind of felt they rejected me for some other reason and just used that as the easy let down answer ~_~ Jk

A friend of mine (post college) just got back from Isreal through YWAM. I havent had a chance to talk in detail about his trip, but his sister says he has really changed since he left, he stops and prays for her. He's been on fire since I've met him and that definitly hasnt changed. The pictures I've seen while he was over there looks like he had a great time in worship and service.

For short term missions & Bible training, personally YWAM is very good.

When I got born again, I told God that I want a Bible training. I told Him to choose because if I choose I may not get the right school for me. Very clearly, God led me to YWAM, Australia.

I took two courses with YWAM for 1 1/2 years; short term mission in India.

Discipleship Training School (DTS) is the first course to be taken for all who wants to join YWAM. Three months lecture & three months mission.

School of Biblical Studies - inductive Bible study from Genesis through Revelation. One year divided into three terms. You may not take the three terms. This Bible course is more on training students to think & allow the Bible & Holy Spirit to interpret the Bible rather than presenting all the views & comments of Bible scholars wherein your head is full of commentaries from scholar.

They have a lot of short courses like evangelism, intercession, missions, media & arts, etc. They also have degree courses.

After my YWAM training, I went back to secular job. After seeking God for my desire to be a missionary, He gave me a go signal to join Worldwide Evangelization for Christ (WEC - founded by CT Studd) though I had a training with YWAM. Why join WEC not YWAM? Because this is God's leading. I emptied my mind & heart as to how to start my missionary life. He knows where will I fit best for He created & designed me. He knows where to use the gifts He has given me.

What's my point? [b]Let God choose for you, it's the perfect thing to do. I wont recommend any schools to you. You seek God and ask Him to lead you to the right school for your training.[/b]

Bless you,

Roman

Avoid YWAM, I grew up on a YWAM base here in Australia, but today I would have nothing to do with them. While out on the streets once we met a YWAM DTS team, which was out evangelising. But they were all catholics and pushed 'works'.

When we challenged them on working with those who have different theology, they replied "There is truth everywhere, we just got to look for it, and then agree with that."

YWAM has thousands and thousands of kids yearly... because you didn't like what two of them had to say don't dismiss the whole organization.

Willo wrote:

Avoid YWAM, I grew up on a YWAM base here in Australia, but today I would have nothing to do with them. While out on the streets once we met a YWAM DTS team, which was out evangelising. But they were all catholics and pushed 'works'.

When we challenged them on working with those who have different theology, they replied "There is truth everywhere, we just got to look for it, and then agree with that."

Not all of YWAM is "bad." My friend, whom I pray with every week concerning revival, came out of YWAM and still has a desire to get back with YWAM. It was through YWAM that God gave him a burning passion to see revival take place.

sscott wrote:
Hey Santana,

Check out "Fire School of Ministry".

http://www.fire-school.org/

I've never been there but I like the preaching of the two founders.

You can go here and listen to a few clips of Michael Brown and Bob Gladstone preaching.

http://fireonthealtar.com/fire/fire.html

Be sure to listen to the clips.

My aunt and Uncle attended the church that this started from. I personally have concerns about this ministry and the leadership. My family was invited down at the excited request of my relatives, so we decided to check it out. Some of what they said was good, but the ministry felt superficial and nearly dead. When they did an altar call, for something I can't remember now, I decided to go up (partly due to the urge of my relatives). So, I got up there and they began to lay hands on me and were actually expecting me to fall because of the presence of the Lord (I'd always been somewhat of a skeptic of this - not saying that it can't happen, but some fall over for drama's sake, not the presence of the Holy Spirit). Well, I didn;t fall, so they moved on to someone else, but then they came back to me, prayed again, and asked that satan remove himself from me that I would not resist His presence. I still didn't fall. So they moved on again, only to come back. This time, I decided to make sure that me knees weren't locked, in case it was an unwillingness on my part to truly fall over because of the Holy Spirit. (My knees hadn't really been locked before, but I was trying to make certian this time, because I didn't want to miss out. They prayed more strongly that the devil would take his grasp off me and I still didn't fall over.

Now let me mention that this whole time they were touching my head, but barely.

So, they moved on again once they could see that I wasn't falling over, and then came back to me for the fourth and final time. They prayed more strongly this time, that satan would leave and that the Holy Spirit would come in and take over. However, this time they decided to shove my head back very forcibly (because they can't look bad if someone's not falling over, ya know). In fact they shoved my head so forcibly that it just tilted my head way back, almost whiplash style. Well, I was losing my balance at this point, but not because of the Holy Spirit, so I recovered my balance before falling over, and that's when they decided to give up on me.

It's because of this experience and the feeling of the whole service kind of being superficial, that I've become learyof this whole ministry and the fire-school.

P.S. My younger brother decided to attend this school, really didn't like the first semester, but thought his heart might be hard, so decided to go again and finish out the year.

He came back reporting that it was so superficial and that they had all kinds of weird and crazy rules.

So, there you have it - My experience with Michael Brown and Bob Gladstone

KrispyKrittr wrote:

Is this the same Steve Hill of the Brownsville "revival" fame? If so, you would do well to stay away from him. (as if the Benny Hinn books werent enough of a sign...)

Krispy

Yup, same guy. That is actually when I went... during their "revival."

It's amazing how pervasive and wide spread this wof stuff has become. How can church leadership be so clueless?

Back in the mid 80's several college age kids (my age at the time) went on YWAM DTS trips. They all came back with incredible zeal for God and great testimonies of the things He had been doing. I remember reading a book about the vision and attainment of their mercy ship 'The Anastasis'. It's a great story. It stirred my heart so that I sought to get involved, but was prevented as God had other plans. The Anastasis actually turned out to be the connection my wife and I had at our first meeting. She had been on board the ship and hosted a couple of gals for some short term shore leave.

Over the years I have lost track of this minstry and am saddened a bit by the news of its decline. I know at one time they were vibrant and powerfully used of God in both the mission field as well as in the hearts of many young christians. If I'm not mistaken, the video of Keith Green titled "Devotion or Devotions" found here at SI is from a YWAM DTS.

It is my sincere hope that the bad reports of some of the activities in YWAM does not mean the whole thing has been corrupted. I had some less than pleasant experiences at two seperate Baptist churches when I was a young christian, but this by no means colors all Baptist churches. To paint with such a broad brush is quite unfair. Let's hope the same is true for YWAM.

If anyone knows about the recent ministry of the mercy ships I'd love to get an update.

In His Love,

Doug

First off, there is a misconception here that need to be cleared up.

Someone mentioned "Not all YWAMmers are equal..." or something of that nature. Well, that's one of the most legitimate statement I've seen about the organization on this thread so far.

YWAM is a legitimate organization... but they don't send out missionaries to the best of my knowledge. YWAM bases do. If that doesn't make sense, bases are overseen by specific individuals, not the organization, so although the name carries, the organization is not at the heart of it. The guys within the organization are more guidelines setters a lot of the time.

YWAM is a great "organization." It does a great deal of work in different places, quite a few of which are "off-limits" and in such a way to where it may legitimately place its people at risk. They let you know they don't extradite bodies when you sign up. YWAMmers die in hostile situations, which is a lot more than quite a few missionary organizations can say they even allow their people the chance to do.

YWAM is also completely international. There are a number of Korean YWAM bases, Indian, European, the whole gamut.

Yes, there are definitely misguided YWAMmers, but that should not discredit the whole any more than the several seriously stuck-up jerks from house churches I have met should discredit a myriad of people on this board. Nor should it represent the entirety of Christian education for a few notable examples of poor schools, eh?

I should also note that YWAM does something that not to many other organizations do... they get people out there for legitimate chunks of time consistently for a reliably reachable sum. That may not sound impressive, but its not something easily done. It shows that Christians actually might have the guts to do something akin to the Mormon's ability to get missionaries out on the field... eh?

YWAMmers run a number of different organizations throughout the US... one not too far from where I grew up gave teen mothers a place to get their feet under them in a spiritually sound environment for no charge - basically allowing them to keep their children about. Although I have obvious issues with the (existence of the) situation presented, the base is doing an appropriate and decent thing.

I'm not exactly sure what the Anastasis is up to now, but it has a routine it follows on a general basis. Its name is well-respected in quite a few coastal third-world countries. Mercy Ships isn't tied to YWAM by any official means, however.

David,

Thanks for the updated information on the structure of YWAM. I find it encouraging to know that there is still good fruit coming from their efforts. I am surprised to read that Mercy Ships is not associated with YWAM as I am almost certain they were at their inception.

In His Love,

Doug

Krispy, I think you missed my main point.

YWAM is ad hoc. It most definitely is not centrally focused. There are too many branches, off-shoots, and uncontrolled partners for it to be legitimately categorized in such a fashion.

Once again, I should ask you quite openly, should I say that home churches are worthless because I have met adulterous slanderers who attended them? Should I condemn you for that simply because they are allowed inside doors? What say you?

Krispy,

Zeal is not something I'm accustomed to being thought to possess. Something must be added with the electricity of the medium.

With all due respect, its more like red apples versus green apples. Cunningham will not disallow a Roman Catholic from participating within YWAM any more than you might disallow a sinner from sitting in on your meeting. That does not make you "partners" any more than the evangelist or pastor "partners" with the lost. I have met a number of DTS leaders who would not directly allow Roman Catholics to minister on outreach if they were to breach protocol. They wouldn't let me minister on outreach if I were to break protocol, and Baptists from my denomination aren't exactly often tagged as "rowdy" or "doctrinally questionable" in their preaching.

I'm not sure if you're entirely focused on the idea of what most YWAMmers seem to do on outreach. There's not much preaching involved. Its a lot of reprieve work, educational stuff, random involvement. There are times when preaching is illegal, and a great deal of the time we're willing to accept that and do our best to show God's love in other ways.

Would you stop a stranger from attending church with you... would you disallow them to pray merely because you were unsure of which God they were praying to?

I'm dead serious. This comparison is straight. It's not like I haven't done a bit of both. Have you been involved with YWAM? And if you haven't, doesn't that put you on slightly looser footing? How exactly can you dismiss me as not knowing what I'm talking about?

First of all, hello neighbor to the south! It's good to see someone else from WA on here.

Secondly, Krispy -there is a remnant within the catholic church, I have met some very solid believers who are part of the catholic church.

I believe we may even see a larger remnant out of some catholics in the third world than out of some protestant churches in the first world.

I know you can probably go into a 10 point essay as to why the Catholic church is an instrument of the devil -but don't.

1And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

2With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Sounds a lot like the American protestant church to me...

I must say, it is daring to suppose all who are born under the Roman Catholic banner are hell-ridden.

*edit*
There is no more reason not to allow a person to try to serve God in a learning atmosphere than it is to pray for a lost man, be they Mormon or Muslim or Hindi. I fail to see how allowing a person from the Roman Catholic denomination attend a three month lecture only to be evaluated for fitness in evangelism on the field before they go and quite possibly knowing they have to retain Protestant (Lutheran, what have you) practices isn't enough of a stretch for most of those who consider it all.

This stroke of yours is too broad, Krispy. It shows no grace at all.

[color=0000CC]“Back in the mid 80's several college age kids (my age at the time) went on YWAM DTS trips. They all came back with incredible zeal for God and great testimonies of the things He had been doing. I remember reading a book about the vision and attainment of their mercy ship 'The Anastasis'. It's a great story. It stirred my heart so that I sought to get involved, but was prevented as God had other plans. The Anastasis actually turned out to be the connection my wife and I had at our first meeting. She had been on board the ship and hosted a couple of gals for some short term shore leave.”[/color]

John 173’s wife here…
Back in 1985, a gal from my church in the SF Bay Area (originally from New Zealand) joined a DTS on the Mercy Ship Anastasis. At the time, they were moving up the Pacific coast from Mexico to Canada, so they scheduled a stop in San Francisco. Because of my friend’s connection with our church, a group of young people from the ship visited and performed “Toymaker and Son”. I hosted two of the gals from the mime troupe at my home. One was from America and the other from Columbia. Although they only stayed with me for a couple of days, we became fast friends, and they invited me to stay as a guest on the Anastasis if I could arrange it. Then the ship continued it’s way up the coast. Once they got to Victoria Island, BC, they had to go into drydock to clear barnacles, etc. from the hull of the ship.

I was able to spend a week on the Anastasis while it was drydocked. Even as a guest, one had to be willing to perform some level of helps while aboard the ship. I was able to sit in on several of their classes and see the nature of their teaching. It was an incredible blessing! It seemed solid to me at the time, but remember we are talking 20 years ago.

I spoke to the Captain of the ship, who encouraged me to apply for an upcoming DTS. While filling out the considerable application, I came upon the question “Do you have any outstanding debt?”. I did, about five grand, from my “B.C.” days. I had moved so many times and avoided the debt collectors for so long that they lost track of me.

I stopped filling out the app at that time and determined I would clear my debt first and try again. It was about the time that I got it cleared up that Doug and I met, fell in love and got married. At that point, I wasn’t able to make those choices without regard to him, and we couldn’t imagine being able to drum up enough support for both of us, so that was the end of that dream.

Nevertheless, my experience with YWAM was very good. Their teaching and leadership was solid, and the young people involved with the mission were definitely on fire for God. I appreciate their determination that people go into the ministry debt-free since one has no way to continue paying on those debts while abroad. I am also personally grateful that the Lord used that experience to goad me to take care of old debt, and that I was able to enter into marriage without that additional encumbrance.

Carol

A Catholic who does not believer in these things for salvation, but rests on the blood of Jesus Christ alone for their atonement and salvation is saved... and is not a true Catholic. They are merely attending a Catholic Church.

So, in this light, you are functioning off an ideal. In such a light, you will not be wrong, and to it I will not argue.

The adjustment of a well-thought value may be necessary here. I couldn't let this one lie, so here I go again.

In the Christian Church today, the biggest misconception we have is that ministry is something we do. Well, church, let us break that concept right now. If a member of my church is unfaithful, it hurts the church. If a man sleeps with a woman outside of wedlock, what does the world say? Should it be such that these Christians act just like us? What happens when inside the Church the divorce rate is the same as it is outside?

Now, for all intents and purposes, what if one individual in such a light is not a member but rather just an attender of some regularity? Does this not reflect just as poorly? And if this is the case, is the Church truly tied to those individuals? In this regard, anybody who follows the body of a church is indeed ministering of that church's viability.

So, as a church, we are indeed partnered with unbelievers, as we functionally believe that it is nigh on impossible to disciple someone without the benefit of a body somewhere. If this is in any reality the case, the premise is utterly unavoidable.

Does this mean we as a church should not attempt to correct the misdirected? If so, then when inside the church body, that body has a member of itself testifying to heresy in an unavoidable fashion (just as much by speaking as acting.) If not, then we run the risk of quite simply having to ignore those we believe to not be saved. Of course, this is unfortunately anti-biblical, but is a logical countermeasure (and not an inappropriate one if the condition is accepted.) This is what theologians might see as a nifty little trap.

We as a church are indeed called to be perfect, so any heresy within the church should be dealt with swiftly (although a rough ousting is generally preferred over a good stoning nowadays.) Yet evangelism and its subsequent persuasions and directions break this quite assuredly.

Then we might argue that we don't send Christians into the mission field - so be it. If I read these boards with any clarity at all, the mission fields pretty much begin where my foot hits the floor in the morning after I climb out of my western-style bed. When I talk to my roommates, I am testifying to my character (and thusly to the character of the one I claim to represent.) Though my roommates are saved, this is nonetheless believed and perceived by the bulk of us to be true. Unfortunately, that means all our new Christians are ministers and missionaries by necessity quite as quickly as they are new. The unavoidable nature of a tainted direction inevitably will haunt us in a modern western culture, to which I am pretty sure most of us will agree.

Hopefully with this arguement, I can show we are all (as Krispy states) "unequally yoked" if we are indeed evangelizing and actively working within the scenarios of that evangelism. If I bring an unsaved friend to church on a repeated basis, and they decide to come of their own volition, isn't this ever so much more the case?

----------------------------------------

Now, for practical consideration within the construct of YWAM... Catholics, as Krispy supposes, aren't saved (by and large.) So for YWAM to say publicly that they will allow Roman Catholics to participate in the program is basically akin to partnering with unbelievers. As Krispy himself wrote, however, he doesn't believe that all those born under the Roman Catholic banner are damned. Unfortunately, this presents us a dilemma. We can say universally that it is improper to allow unsaved Roman Catholics to participate in YWAM, but we can't say that Roman Catholics applying to YWAM are unsaved. So we either have to universally reject them all or allow them to be considered.

If, indeed, they are all damned, we should reject them and then condemn YWAM for even considering them. OK. But we already know we can't do that. So YWAM can't reject Roman Catholics without being hypocrites by our own reasoning. Now, this is either universal or it isn't, and there is no fair way to say it can be both.

Its a bit like saying that tomatoes are of the devil and then eating a traditional American pizza, or having ketchup with your fries. Evidently not all tomatoes are created equal.

So then we run into the problem of why we can universally deny Roman Catholics, and the presented solution is that they are in idolatry. Well, that is a fair assessment of likelihood. Unfortunately, then we have to consider the purpose of YWAM.

YWAM's primary offering to the young is what is known as a Discipleship Training School, which is three months of training in a protestant (usually folk-theology heavy, charismatic) fashion followed by a three month outreach phase. Those first three months aren't spent in entire isolation, but are pretty much solitary in nature. They are for training and instruction in understanding modern interpretations of the Bible (usually presented as "instruction on the Bible"). Then the whole problem arises when the point of the school becomes an applicable outreach phase in which the primary focus is field application. Of course, the bulk of us put a line in the sand here and say that this testimony need be carried out specifically by individuals we can universally accept as Christian. Unfortunately, this is an illegitimate task in and of itself, but nonetheless the standard is set.

Well, we also believe that those around us (in the Church) testify to the character of God just as assuredly within the confines of their domestic locale. But we still believe that evangelism is a demand made of us within the kingdom by our King.

So this begs the question, are we allowed to hold within the church a person who is theologically imperfect? Once again, a mass purging may have to occur for any heresy, minor or major if the answer is no. New believers will almost universally misrepresent God. In fact, I think most of us established believers will almost universally do the same.

If the answer to allowing the theologically imperfect within the church is that we can, however, YWAM's ideal becomes noble. Not only is the church taking aside this person and with intent instructing them in a psychologically powerful fashion, but then it is showing them what should be done with this in a controlled and poignant way. This is especially true of a Catholic who is signing on to a different denominational consideration willingly.

Now to the matter of exceptions. The bulk of the Christians in the world don't participate in overseas missions of any sort. Those that do often build houses or hand out tracts or act, so in some way can be considered indirectly evangelizing. YWAM is itself focused primarily on overseas missions, and is almost entirely so within the realm of the DTS. So immediately we are dealing with the exception within the rule.

Unfortunately, this has a tendency to start to break down our consideration of the program right away... they are either "like us" or "not like us." If we are standardized Christians who don't venture forth, our missions field is at our doorsteps. The fallouts of the differences can be taken care of with "to Judea, Samaria, and to the end of the earth..." in a quiet fashion.

Those actively putting financial effort to go and reach the world are the odd ducks who perceive something akin to a demand to go to the "end of the earth." So already they have something unusual about them. Either it is the ability to wager the funds to get there, or it is the desire to go. In any case, something about the situation has gotten them started.

Here's the rub. We have to acknowledge the differences within these individuals because they are acting differently. They are doing something not normal, and have thus so differentiated themselves from others. If it has been done in one fashion, it might be wise to assume that each of these folk are separated in others as well, to which some examination should take place. So an application for admission is set about with the goal of finding the general intent and historical consideration of the person applying. Some discernment should be used, here, because any teacher knows that an overly disruptive individual will cause problems in a classroom - all the more so if the classroom is set apart and is pretty much the entirety of a small campus (to which the students will find themselves actively confined for the bulk of their time for three months.) In the case of the Roman Catholic, we might realistically see this as examination of their tendencies of belief (including proposed idol worship).

Now, again we could claim that Roman Catholics will be a disruptive influence here... but would it not be equally so within any other protestant church? And then again, we come to the question of whether or not we should allow them within the doors as represented by that disruption - also akin to their ministerial properties as a human being. Once again, this is either a universal claim or not. If we claim that the case must be handled individually, then it must be handled individually utterly, and cannot be considered proper or improper in a universal manner.

Unfortunately, this takes us beyond the scope of condemning YWAM for considering students individually if we accept the premises, as we also have to acknowledge that protestants may find themselves under the same proper scrutiny as those of some other persuasion. This seems good.

Now we either have to claim that the organization has improper leadership or the claim must be dropped.

So onto the third point (and the one on which I started.) YWAM is a loose collaboration of organizations falling under the same name for overarching networking purposes. Every branch is headed by individual persons of which the main organization scrutinizes in application for membership. Here we come up to the possibility of error. If a poor decision is made, then there are unfortunate consequences. A great many of these YWAM directors have no formal seminary training, so they may either fall into an improperly trained leadership or an un-deluded group (depending mostly on your preference.)

There are some measures of leadership training involved with these YWAM leaders. A great many of them are parents, and as they are representing a name of sorts, the leadership is considered by the organizational centre so far that the centre doesn't believe they will misrepresent God in its name.

So here we fall onto discernment. If YWAM is legitimately accomplishing good things, then it is either in defiance of its core leadership or under some direction of that leadership. If we can agree that YWAM is accomplishing good work in this framework (not purely based upon one experience, but some culmination of knowledge - for fairness of representation, in similar fashion to how we judge "the church"), then this discernment falls down to those individual leaders (in defiance of the properness of the centre either way).

This might be seen the same way we must view churches today... whether they have a denominational acknowledgment, they meet out of a house or a formalized building, or if they are meeting in defiance of a leadership of some sort. And then we come to a question which must be asked... is it proper for us to do this? If it essentially is, and draw a conclusion on a group-whole, then I must profess I can condemn everyone who walks this earth in proper earnestness. This is in no way excluding myself.

And now again to finish with my personal question: Should I condemn all house-churches as corrupted because I have met avid (Ten Commandment-breaking) sinners who attend a few?

And now again to finish with my personal question: Should I condemn all house-churches as corrupted because I have met avid (Ten Commandment-breaking) sinners who attend a few?

"...Touch no unclean thing." - 2 Corinthians 6:17

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/ywamopenletter.html

Also, check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnMdL8DYcgc

^Pay attention to this Bible study. True believers should separate themselves from those who profess Christ but live in habitual sin (and I know I might catch a ton of flak for that, but the principle is laid there in Scripture).

The matter is not "This person has incorrect theology so we should reject him from the Body of Christ." No, nobody can say that. Nobody's theology is perfect except Jesus. If that were the case, nobody could be in the Body of Christ.

But the matter is, "This person professes to be a member of the Body of Christ but lives as if this is not true."

I'm telling you, there's sound wisdom in these links I've posted.

My niece was in YWAM and she loved it. The reason she got out was every missionary person there has to have people support them, that's how they pay for going to all the places they go. And a lot of people don't keep up with paying their monthly dues and that's why she finally had to leave; instead of bugging people about paying, she left. She is working and going to college now.

We only had one falling out while she was in YWAM and that was over Todd Bentley; everyone she seemed to be associated with there loved him but I kept sending stuff to her mother who forwarded it on to her and she wrote me a nasty, well as nasty as a Christian letter can be! After a few months when she left, she wrote me a letter some what apologizing. But I took it as a full fledge apology and we have gone on like nothing happened!

I don't know about what other YWAMmer's believe but that was my experience with my niece.

God bless,
Lisa

I'm telling you, there's sound wisdom in these links I've posted.

I'm sorry I digress. My question is what denomination or church religion are you associated with? I only ask because I've noticed you say that a lot (in the above quote), "sound wisdom" in what you post. It would help me better understand the sound wisdom where you are coming from.

God bless you,
Lisa

My question is what denomination or church religion are you associated with? I only ask because I've noticed you say that a lot (in the above quote), "sound wisdom" in what you post. It would help me better understand the sound wisdom where you are coming from.

By "sound wisdom," I would mean "Biblical wisdom" (I would hope that it is Biblical! (:).

I will answer you, Lysa, but before I do so, what "denomination or church religion" do you think I associate myself?

I do believe I am wrong about “a lot”!!!

I first noticed you in the ‘Finney’s Conversion’ thread and it seemed that you were lovingly adamant that you were right and Finney was wrong. (Never mind that upwards of a half a million people gave their lives to the Lord during his ministry!) And then in this thread, you have the sound wisdom links about YWAM!!

Brother, I have no idea what religion you are, that is why I openly asked. I don’t ask questions to set people up only to clobber them with it later. I asked because I wanted to know what theology or perspective you were coming from so I could try to understand you more.

God bless you,
Lisa

I first noticed you in the ‘Finney’s Conversion’ thread and it seemed that you were lovingly adamant that you were right and Finney was wrong. (Never mind that upwards of a half a million people gave their lives to the Lord during his ministry!)

And then in this thread, you have the sound wisdom links about YWAM!!

Brother, I have no idea what religion you are, that is why I openly asked. I don’t ask questions to set people up only to clobber them with it later. I asked because I wanted to know what theology or perspective you were coming from so I could try to understand you more.

This isn't an excuse, but I've become somewhat irritated after the previous discussion regarding Finney because I was so put off by the fact several individuals gave the impression I was some Calvinistic ogre trying to impose my doctrine on everyone else when, in my own eyes, I am the VERY FIRST PERSON to denounce such conflicts.

Actually, why don't I make this clear now?

When I hear the word "Calvinist," I think "Brother."
When I hear the word "Arminian," I think "Brother."
When I hear the word "Puritan," I think "Brother."
When I hear the word "Baptist," I think "Brother."
When I hear the word "Lutheran," I think "Brother."

That goes for "Methodist," "Mennonite," "Presbyterian," and every other strange creature out there. If you know God, and if I know God, that makes us siblings in Christ.

Does that mean I don't have my own personal beliefs on topics like predestination vs. free will? No, I do have my own strong beliefs and I do think they make a significant difference and play a role in how we live our lives, and when and where it is appropriate, I will express my views and disagree with strong conviction.

I would call myself Reformed, which I just think is a cooler way of saying Protestant. Look, another link! (:
http://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/what_is_reformed_theology/introduction-3203/

That's not truly specific, however. Honestly (what a silly thing to say. What, as if I'm not being honest elsewhere?), I'm not sure what denomination I would put myself in. Am I Baptist? Am I Presbyterian? Maybe, I just don't know it yet. Just call me Reformed at this point.

The reason I cringe when other people call me Calvinist is because it's such a loaded term at this point that I don't understand how they define that word. When they say "Calvinist," do they think I hold to the five-points AKA TULIP? Or do they merely use the term Calvinist to describe ANYBODY who believes in predestination? Or is there something else to it?

If you were to call me a Calvinist in the sense that I believe in five-points and that's it, I would disagree. First off, because I'm not sure if I agree with some of those points or how they are worded.

I recall some individual in the Finney topic who gave the impression that I was implying that I didn't believe people were going to be saved because they didn't believe in some five-points. I'm not going to go back and see who it was, that's just what I remember. That just reveals THEIR own assumptions as to what I believed and it's an insult to true Calvinists.

Just like the way "Arminian" is such a loaded term. When people use it in conversation, do they mean Arminian in a classic sense, like Wesley? There are people out there who think Arminians are all unregenerate heretics who will see Hell by the way they define Arminians, but actually, they're thinking about Pelagianism/Semi-Pelagianism (which, by the historic definition, is a truly damnable heresy).

I express that I'm a bit bothered when you ask me what religion I am as opposed to what denomination, or what doctrinal background I'm from. I'm assuming everyone here at Sermon Index believes in the God of the Bible and that Jesus Christ died for their sins (they might word it differently, but I'm assuming everyone here holds to the same essential tenets of faith that make the difference between someone who's in Christ and someone who's not in Christ). Haha, if I'm wrong, then somebody PLEASE tell me.

Anyway, thanks for reading all this! I hope this is edifying to you and may this be glorifying to God.