Worldly Amusements - Finney

AMUSEMENTS

By Charles G. Finney (1792-1875)

...The question [concerning amusements] in all such cases is not, "What harm is there in this proposed amusement?" but, "What good can it do?" "Is it the best way in which I can spend my time?"...The question often arises: "Are we never to seek such amusements?" I answer: It is our privilege and our duty to live above a desire for such things.

All that class of desires should be so subdued by living so much in the light of God, and having so deep a communion with Him as to have no relish for such amusements whatever. It certainly is the privilege of every child of God to walk so closely with Him, and maintain so divine a communion with Him, as not to feel the necessity of worldly excitements, sports, pastimes, and entertainments to make his enjoyment satisfactory.

If a Christian avails himself of his privilege of communion with God, he will naturally and by an instinct of his new nature repel solicitations to go after worldly amusements. To him such pastimes will appear low, unsatisfactory, and even repulsive. If he is of a heavenly mind, as he ought to be, he will feel as if he could not afford to come down and seek enjoyment in worldly amusements.

Surely, a Christian must be fallen from his first love, he must have turned back into the world, before he can feel the necessity or have the desire of seeking enjoyment in worldly sports and pastimes...Probably but few persons enjoy worldly pleasure more intensely than I did before I was converted; but my conversion, and the spiritual baptism which immediately followed it, completely extinguished all desire for worldly sports and amusements.

I was lifted at once into entirely another plane of life and another kind of enjoyment. From that hour to the present the mode of life, the pastimes, sports, amusements, and worldly ways that so much delighted me before have not only failed to interest me, but I have had a positive aversion to them. I have never felt them necessary to or even compatible with, a truly rational enjoyment. I do not speak boastingly; but for the honour of Christ and His religion...

Some have maintained that we should conform to the ways of the world somewhat---at least, enough to show that we can enjoy the world and religion too; and that we make religion appear repulsive to unconverted souls by turning our backs upon what they call their innocent amusements.

But we should represent religion as it really is---as living above the world, as consisting in a heavenly mind, as that which affords an enjoyment so spiritual and heavenly as to render the low pursuits and joys of worldly men disagreeable and repulsive.

...Who does not know that it is the worldly members in the Church who are always ready for any movement in the direction of worldly pleasure or amusement, and that the truly spiritual, prayerful, heavenly-minded members are shy of all such movements? They are not led into them without urging, and weep in secret places when they see their pastor giving encouragement to that which is likely to be so great a stumbling-block to both the Church and to the world.

Great post brother Paul

If you have any more articles/essays along this line please post them too.

TJ

Oh, I have plenty, TJ! I'm just weary of starting another war. I have great articles from Wesley and Whitefield, and many sermon excerpts from Keith Daniel, Wilkerson and Ravenhill that deal exactly with this topic.

What does he mean by 'worldly'?

Also, can someone provide a list of activities that can be enjoyed and a list of activities that cannot (or should I say "should not") be enjoyed?

Thanks.

Also, can someone provide a list of activities that can be enjoyed and a list of activities that cannot (or should I say "should not") be enjoyed?

Do you really expect someone to provide you with a list here - and you would take it seriously?

(edited by commentor)

I seriously want to know.

For example, I like to play board games, I like to watch sports, I like a number of things.

I understand that it is wrong to watch a movie that contains nudity and foul language, but is it 'worldly entertainment' to watch a movie with no nudity or foul language but does not necessarily have a Christian message?

Is it 'worldly entertainment' to watch a football game on television or in person?

Please do not presume that I am here to fight, I am merely asking a question.

Okay, Jay. Fair enough! We'll see where this goes, and where your question leads.

, but is it 'worldly entertainment' to watch a movie with no nudity or foul language but does not necessarily have a Christian message?

May I ask you this: Does this nudity-less and profanity-less movie edify your spirit in Christ? Does it build you up in holiness, or, for the segment of time you watch it, are your thoughts focused on Christ, his holiness, his purity, and the fearsome Judgment Seat?

If "no", then why waste your time? We should ever thrist to become so totally consumed that we reach a point where [i]all things[/i] are vain and expendable that are not helping us grow deeper in God.

Brother Paul

May I ask you this: Does this nudity-less and profanity-less movie edify your spirit in Christ? Does it build you up in holiness, or, for the hour of time you are watching it, your thoughts are far from Christ, holiness, purity, the Judgment Seat?

I am not saying that this nudity-less and profanity-less movie is going to have the same effect as the Holy Bible and prayer, but I am saying that it is not sinful to enjoy said movie. Are saying it is sinful?

but I am saying that it is not sinful to enjoy said movie

Who said anything about [i]sin?[/i] To him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

(edited by commentor)

We should ever thirst to become so totally consumed that we reach a point where all things are vain and expendable that are not helping you grow deeper and deeper in God.

I agree that we should do all for the glory of God. I am never going to assume that it is ok to tune out God for a period of time.

What I am saying is that one does not have to turn his back on God to enjoy amusements. I hate to drag Krispy into this discussion but I believe he is an avid hunter. Since hunting is an amusement and is not prayer or bible reading, is it sinful to hunt? Do you see where I am going with this? We need to do all things for God but that doesn't mean we are locked in our room all day praying and reading the bible.

And who said anything about sin? To him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

So if it is not a sin then why would we tell people to avoid it? We are to confess and repent of sin. If something is not sin then what is the problem?

You are saying that we should avoid amusements because they do not edify the spirit, then you ask why the mention of sin is brought up in conjunction with this. I affirm that verse and say that it is wrong to tell someone to avoid an amusement that is not sinful.

You are saying that we should avoid amusements

Finney wrote the article, I didn't. And Finney didn't say "you should avoid worldy amusements" - that is your interpretation of the article. Finney, in a nutshell, said there is something far, far greater than worldy amusements for the child of God. That to indulge in worldly amusements is beneath the dignity of the child of God. That when God is everything to the Christian, there will be no room for worldy amusements.

(edited by commentor)

PaulWest wrote:
Oh, I have plenty, TJ! I'm just weary of starting another war. I have great articles from Wesley and Whitefield, and many sermon excerpts from Keith Daniel, Wilkerson and Ravenhill that deal exactly with this topic.

please do post them brother, i hope it dont develop into a "war", but it can only be that when people start "defending" the worldliness

I know where this is going! Long discussion ahead.

I'll chime in with my 2 cents.

I do not believe that (all) worldly amusements are not able to be done to the glory of God or whatever. Such as a roller coaster theme park. Depends on where your heart is-- your own walk ultimately.

It's complex. Simple, but complex.

I watch many documentaries. They give me an inward perspective on many happenings around the world, and as such I find them productive, practical, and edifying to my Spirit. I'm not sure where I stand on other sides of this, so I won't go into anything further.

Food is one thing that can be a worldly amusement, can be a Godly edifying deal. Music another. Film another. The Internet another. I think with this all, there's two sides to the coin, and we can't generalise to say all Film is a worldly amusement. It's a complex issue that I'd wish not to tackle due to my small fortitude :-)

Jordan

i think this is a true statement,

That when God is everything to the Christian, there will be no room for worldy amusements.

maybe the "need" to be amused is a sign of "a" lack of God in your life? not saying it is that way always...but maybe that is question we should ask ourselves?

hmmhmm

I like your W. Gurnall quote. I got "The Christian in Complete Armour" in the mail today.

Thanks for all the J.A.James posts too. They have been wonderful.

Peace be with you

TJ

I say this in respect, but you say Finney did not say that we "should avoid worldly amusements" but that is exactly what he is telling us.

Quoting Finney:

"If a Christian avails himself of his privilege of communion with God, he will naturally and by an instinct of his new nature repel solicitations to go after worldly amusements. To him such pastimes will appear low, unsatisfactory, and even repulsive. If he is of a heavenly mind, as he ought to be, he will feel as if he could not afford to come down and seek enjoyment in worldly amusements."

This passage tells me that if I am truly abiding in Christ then I will find worldly amusements repulsive. How can you say that he is not telling us to avoid worldly amusements?

I agree with you jordanamo.

Also, please hear my heart in this issue. I do not take exception to you Paul or to anyone else. I just see this as a slippery slope. The phrase 'Worldly amusements' is too vague and can easily slide into legalism.

I am not accusing anyone of being a legalist but I wanted to voice my concerns about the article. I do want to go on record as saying that we should glorify God in all we do.

here are some verses that speak to me, they are good to meditate upon, the scripture is quite clear on to have little or nothing to do whit the world,
then we just have to discern what is of the world, thats where the argument begin i supose...

Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Jay, the passage is saying that if you are truly abiding in Christ you will have no desire for worldly amusement. I find the quote to be very true.

I know the more I am in Christ the less I want of anything in the world. I'm serious, I do not desire to go anywhere, unless it is meeting with other believers or evangelism. I am a homebody. I don't like watching t.v., even if its a christian movie, I just have no deasire to sit infront of a t.v. for an hour or two. I have no desires for sports, games, movies, amusement parks, malls. I guess this is called being dead to the world.

Your right it is not sin to go to a fair, hunting...but, it can become sin when you desire it more than God. If we understand how weak our flesh is we would avoid much stuff that is not blatant sin, but it could easily numb our hearts toward God and make us lukewarm. Think about it. You don't become lukewarm from obvious sins

1 John 2:15-16

15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.

In this verse, it is saying that if you love anything in the world, the love of the Father is not in you. OUCH! That means, if anything is above God, that you enjoy doing more than being with Him, then you got a problem, and that you really do not love God.

I like what John Wesley's mother once wrote to him. She said:

"Take this rule: whatever weakens your reason, impairs the tenderness of your conscience, obscures your sense of God, or takes off your relish of spiritual things; in short, whatever increases the strength and authority of your body over your mind, that thing is sin to you, however innocent it may be in itself."
-- Susanna Wesley (Letter, June 8, 1725)

Your right it is not sin to go to a fair, hunting...but, it can become sin when you desire it more than God. If we understand how weak our flesh is we would avoid much stuff that is not blatant sin, but it could easily numb our hearts toward God and make us lukewarm. Think about it. You don't become lukewarm from obvious sins

This is the key. The bible is clear that nothing should come between you and God, but this does not mean that we cannot partake in amusement because amusement in itself is not sinful.

myfirstlove, I applaud you for your devotion to God but I think you would agree with me that it is wrong to say that every person must do what you do and must not do what you do not do. (I am not accusing you of saying this, but I want to emphasize that point.)

myfirstlove

If we understand how weak our flesh is we would avoid much stuff that is not blatant sin, but it could easily numb our hearts toward God and make us lukewarm. Think about it. You don't become lukewarm from obvious sins

This should by placed in the "great quotes" thread

TJ

Jay, I would never tell anyone to do what I do and give up what I have given up, because the things that was sin to me might not be sin for someone else.

I do believe the more you are in Christ, you will have no desire for the things of the world. Like Finney said, the things of the world will become repulsive to you. That you will become dead to the world and alive to Christ.

We must remember that the devil is god of this world. So he will use the things of this world to temp us and try to bring us back into bondage. We must be watchful and in prayer so that we will not be ignoranr of the devil's devices. most of his devices on christians are not blantant sins. He knows that christians will not fall easily to committing adultry or being a drunkard. He starts out with little things thats not harmful at first, but can easily lead us to lukewarmness and defiling our heart and mind, if we are not watchful.

1 John 5:19
19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

Happiness without Holiness is Helplessness.

Amusements that just amuse us without our lifes being holy and those amusements being sanctified will result in a helpless condition of our flesh ruling over our spirits.

Amen Brother

TJ

To me I find it funny that Christians in our day are more against holiness then they are of sin!

I humbly ask if you are including me in this category.

What a time we live in. The other day I was visiting Christianity Today's website...how astonishing that they were condoning and admiring films that featured such acts of violence, pedefilia, rape, adultery, and revenge...and yet mocking poorer Christian films, ostensibly for their low production quality.

When you love secret prayer, the word of God, fellowship with saints more then TV, Movies, sports, etc then truly you will spend much more time in the former of these. And the latter will become more and more empty and vain in their purposes.

Yes, let's be honest...this issue has little to do with legalism...it is more about the Spirit that dwells within a man. The ancients understood this better perhaps then our modern generation. They knew that only hypocrites and false converts claim to have repented of violence, lust, greed, and idolatry, only to eagerly expose themselves to these things in the theater and sing about in the 'pagan hymns' of their day. It is impossible to abide in Christ while taking pleasure in entertainment contagious with the spirit of this world. If the Lord lives in us, would he allow himself to be exposed for our pleasure, to be forced to participate in adultery, murder, gambling, and revenge?

Niether did the ancients try to 'repurpose' these things for the church, as so many do today...they openly rejected the popular culture of their day. That was their relevant message...not imitation of it but sharp contrast to it.

This is a constant challenge to me as a commercial graphic designer. Rember Ed Orr's observation..."It is one thing for a ship to be in the water, and quite another for water to be in the ship."

I am wondering...how did the early Church, a movement of cultural separatists, change the world without the worldy wisdom of our modern Christian chameleonists? We cradle, coo, coddle, and condone the world's vulgar culture, winning the affection of sinners...while the old Church rebuked, rejected, and reviled the world's vulgar culture, winning the conversion of sinners.

Let's not allow the discussion of legalism, to distract us from the more vital discussion of abiding in Christ...which is more then a doctrinal position...it is a heart position. Today we have many Christians who are proclaiming grace, grace...while feeding their inner appetites at blockbuster and AMC theaters, sadly knowing very little about God's grace in their hearts. Indeed, if the millions of Christians in America would really walk in God's grace....the lack of their ill-spent entertainment budgets alone would cripple Hollywood.

Sure we have heard about grace...but does our version of grace produce a pure heart? If not, then rest assured our version is leading us away from Christ. Only the pure in heart shall see God. I was praying with a good brother this week...in his prayer he repeated to the Lord that of course we are being sanctified slowly...After we ended the prayer I gently challenged him in love...something I have learned sweetly here at SI. What does the Lord say about a double-minded man..or a man who tries to serve two masters? We admit that we grow into maturity...but the heart is either santicfied or it is not. Even a novice athlete can commit himself to the contest as much as a professional...and in some cases more so. They might try to say they are set apart for their sport, while continuing to eat unprofitable food...but they would be kidding themselves.

Consider this the next time you want to watch CSI, or some popular movie showing other people doing things that are beneath a person who loves God. A Christian's heart, even an immature one, cannot be 'set apart for Christ' and yet also reserved for the interests of the World. I've been the slowest to learn this truth...and I pray I am true enough to not turn away from it.

Blessings!

MC

Happiness without Holiness is Helplessness.

Jordan

Jay, I would never tell anyone to do what I do and give up what I have given up, because the things that was sin to me might not be sin for someone else.

I completely agree.

Let me state this for the record, I am not against holiness. I hope that no one is getting that impression from what I am writing. I believe it is important to spend time in the Bible daily, that it is important to spend time in prayer daily, and that it is important to share the gospel with everyone. I also believe that it is wrong to impose arbitrary standards upon people under the guise of holiness.

If something is not sinful then why tell people not to do it? This is my position. You can say that it is wise to stay away from certain things, but I resist a person who says that a believer cannot do something that is not sinful.

Holiness is when you submit to God and you seek to glorify him in all that you do. Legalism is when you submit to rules that God has not given you and try to impose rules upon other people. Legalism is when a person submits to these self-imposed rules to assure them of their holiness.

Why did Paul make this statement?
1 Corinthians 8:8-9, "Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak."

He is talking about eating "food offered to idols and he says that as a Christian we have the freedom to eat that meat and we have the freedom not to eat that meat. The one stipulation is that we are not to allow this freedom to become a stumbling block to the weak.

Who are the weak? Those who says it is wrong to go into the world and engage in a "sinful" activity as eating food sacrificed to idols. Can you imagine the arguments the Corinthians must have had about this? One group saying that it is wrong to eat the meat, it is not in accords with 'holiness' to eat this meat. The other group saying that an idol is nothing and it is just meat, we have the freedom to eat the meat. What does Paul say? You can eat the meat just don't cause your weaker brother to stumble with your freedom.

This speaks to us today! I would never tell a person that it is wrong to watch sports or play sports, but I would caution them against placing that in a higher priority than God.

I would never tell a person that they should not watch a non-Christian movie that does not have nudity, foul language or other objectionable material, I would however caution them against doing that instead of having a daily quiet time.

My point is this, We as Christians dare not place rules upon our fellow brothers that are not spelled out in the scripture. You say that this is not legalism but holiness, but then we tell people to stop doing things that we are not told to stop in scripture. How is this any different than the Pharisees? They had the law of God and they added to it.

I know my position is very unpopular here on sermonindex, but hear my heart, I do not want to enjoy the sinful desires of the world but there are things Christians have the freedom to do that are not sinful. Can we agree that we should not judge others for engaging in secular amusement that is not sinful.

Truly to abide by the commands of God are freedom and liberity. The commands of God are not burdensome 1st John says.

Amen! His truth surely sets us free! Yes, the commands of God is not burdensome, to the one who LOVES HIM!!!

Are we crucified to the world?

Let us meditate on that! Are we crucified to the world? If we are really crucified to the world and alive to Christ, we will surely have no desire to partake in earthly pleasures. We will not even find it fun anymore to take up worldly amusement because we are so inlove with Jesus that nothing excites us anymore, but God alone and obeying Him.

1 Peter 4:1-5

1 Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2 that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. 3 For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries. 4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you. 5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

Holiness is really conformity to Christ-likeness in the character of the Christian and thereby outward manifestations and actions will change from that result.

Amen,

Are we crucified to the world?

Are we crucified to our passions and lusts?

Romans 1:17

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Hebrews 10:38
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

If we are to live by faith and we are, and the
righteousness of God is revealed by faith.
Then everything we do must be done in faith.

Romans 14:23
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

This must include everything, every breath and
action, everything must be done in faith or it
is sin. Ask youself these questions, can I do this in faith? What would Jesus do?

What I am saying is that one does not have to turn his back on God to enjoy amusements.

The etymology of the word amusement is "amuser "divert, cause to muse" and Sense of "divert from serious business, tickle the fancy of." Also is recorded from 1631, but through 18c. the primary meaning was "deceive, cheat" by first occupying the attention. Source is etymonline.com.

The whole point is that while we may not be intending to turn our backs on God, the whole purpose of the enemy is to set up amusement to divert our attention away from God.

Ephesians 5:15-16 states it properly, "See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil."

We are to redeem the time. I know that I have loved ones who aren't saved, co workers, friends,etc. I would be remiss not to "buy back" the time that I have wasted in my life not sharing with urgency that the days are short with these lost ones.

Just my 2 cents.

blessings,

Sean

another brother posted this, its written by william law,

For if salvation is only given to those who strive for it, then it is as reasonable for me to consider whether my course of life be a course of striving to obtain it, as to consider whether I am keeping any of the commandments.

If my religion is only a formal compliance with those modes of worship that are in fashion where I live; if it costs me no pains or trouble; if it lays me under no rules and restraints; if I have no careful thoughts and sober reflections about it, is it not great wekaness to think that I am striving to enter in at the strait gate?

If I am seeking everything that can delight my senses, and regale my appetites; spending my time and fortune in pleasure, in diversion, and worldly enjoyments; a stranger to watchings, fastings, prayers, and mortification; how can it be said that I am working out my salvation with fear and trembling?

If there is nothing in my life and conversation that shows me to be different from Jews and Heathens; if I use the world, and worldly enjoyments, as the generality of people now do, and in all ages have done; why should I think that I am amongst those few who are walking in the narrow way to Heaven?

bump

Also, can someone provide a list of activities that can be enjoyed and a list of activities that cannot (or should I say "should not") be enjoyed?

Hi Jay, I like Oswald's Smith answer to your question:

"The fullness of the Spirit will answer all your questions and settle all your problems about worldly amusements. Never again will you have to ask, "Is it right to go here? Is it wrong to go there? May I attend the theatre? What harm is there in the dance? May I play cards?" You will be so filled with Him that you will not want the world. It will be the expulsive power of a new affection. The new will expel the old. You will find you greatest delight in God's service, and you will discover that you are miserable and unhappy in the world.
-Oswald Smith (The Enduement of Power)"

these verses speak to me, the last featured sermon by Erlo Stegen was a great one was based upon these verses, and i believe it will help us all to listen to that sermon prayerfully.

Php 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Php 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

and that word who "mind" earthly things, i count in amusement there to, at least in the sense it is discussed in this thread, anyway here is Thayer's definitions

phroneō

Thayer Definition:

1) to have understanding, be wise

2) to feel, to think

2a) to have an opinion of one’s self, think of one’s self, to be modest, not let one’s opinion (though just) of himself exceed the bounds of modesty

2b) to think or judge what one’s opinion is

2c) to be of the same mind, i.e. agreed together, cherish the same views, be harmonious

3) to direct one’s mind to a thing, to seek, to strive for

3a) to seek one’s interest or advantage

3b) to be of one’s party, side with him (in public affairs)
Part of Speech: verb