Modest Swimwear

It is beautiful outside: the sun shines brightly, it is clear which brings us hope that summer will be here soon. As I think of this, I also think of the many who will be heading for the beaches and the exposure of flesh will feed many carnal minds and tempt many with sinful desires, wanted or not.

Last summer I was made aware of modest swimwear. Until then I did not know one could use these words in one sentence: I thought they were oxymorons. But I did a search on the web and found a lot, to my surprise. After studying the pics, I proceeded to sew one for myself and have been real pleased with it. I wore it when we went white water rafting in the Smokies last summer and plan to wear it in the future. It is a garb I do not have to be afraid who sees me nor do I experience any reluctance to ask the LORD for his protection while dressed like this!

I am including some links to websites for your consideration. I hope this will challenge all who are concerned about this issue and perhaps we can demonstrate to the world that "we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Eph. 2:10 (NASB).

Links: http://www.danzfamily.com/archives/2004/06/modest_swimwear.php

http://www.modest-swimwear.net/

http://www.liliesapparel.com/

Moderators: if you consider this subject inappropriate, please remove it.

Blessings,
ginnyrose

Amen Sister !!!

May God bless you in your quest for modest dress. I am so thankful for your post and the links. I wish more women would embrace this style. I think modesty is simply beautiful.

I once heard a young Christian woman address her congregation and talk about the hard decisions young women have to make nowadays. As an illustration she related a story about not knowing which style bathing suit to wear to a pool party, single or two piece.

I think Ravenhill mentions the fact that not only can you not preach holiness anymore, you can’t even preach modesty.

This is also a concern I have about “good” or “Christian” movies. People never mention the immodest dress and behavior. It’s all about the language for many.

Thanks again for this wonderful post.

Peace be with you.

TJ

Thank you for the links, ginnyrose. I am looking for more modest clothing. I was in a store today and the clothes they are marketing even for young girls were horrifying!

I just emailed the links to my mother begging her to sew one for my wife and two daughters. Now the problem is finding someplace to swim where these suits are all thats worn so I don't have to stare at the sand all day at the beach.

In Christ,

Craig

I know of a lady that told me she wouldn't make her daughter dress like an old lady and she was just talking about a one piece suit.

When my girls were growing up they had to wear one piece suits with long tshirts over the top.

Thanks for sharing this. I don't even go to the beach any more as I don't want to go to a peep show.

the problem is finding someplace to swim where these suits are all thats worn so I don't have to stare at the sand all day at the beach.

Craig, you are right on! This is a problem. When we went white water rafting, there were others there who were dressed so shamefully. Fortunately, they put us with a family that were dressed more respectfully. And what helps is when they make you wear lifejackets!

Your mother in law should not find it difficult to sew any if she is a skilled seamstress. Or, maybe you do not even have to be all that skilled - just use a little imagination.

I am glad I could help you...

ginnyrose

tj wrote:

This is also a concern I have about “good” or “Christian” movies. People never mention the immodest dress and behavior. It’s all about the language for many.

tj, you bring up a subject that has really bothered me. A couple years ago we went to see a play, "Annie, Get Your Gun". It is a very fun play to see, I enjoyed it until the very last part where the two key players embraces so tenderly, so romantically. Brother, these two were not married to each other! The lady was married to another man. Let me tell you, I had to avert my eyes after a while because of what it did to me! Understand what I am saying? Now I just told you one story: I experience this also when I see this kind of kissing, etc. on a movie...Look, I am a married woman, a grandmother! I find this 'experience' very upsetting! And I assume this is the kind of thing males feel when they see immodesty.

So what does this mean to me, now? It means that if I value my purity, I will be very selective what videos/DVDs I will watch. As it is, I view very few...do not have time for it...am too busy, PTL!

Thanks for the post....

ginnyrose

perish the thought :eek:

I always ask girls, "What's the difference between a 2-piece bathing suit and underwear (besides the fabric)"?? No answer.

If females knew how men REALLY thought, there whole wardrobe would change overnight! What a sensual society we live in today.

I praise God for winters :-P

Do you guys think the Muslims are to strict with there female swimwear?

Do you guys think the Muslims are to strict with there female swimwear?

Anyhow, I don't know extensively on the topic of "Muslim" swimwear-- i just know the "Muslim" part. It depends on the family, the community, etc. But generally speaking, Muslims to tend to be very modest in their clothing. Generally-- not absolutely. Depends where and how and who and what :-)

Jordan

I loved the sites except for the comments made on them, I absolutly believe in modest dress

Thank you so much for this post as the subject of modesty in dress is dear to my heart. The Word urges us not to be conformed to this world or be moulded into it's image, but to be transformed. It's a shame that the majority of Christians don't take this caution seriously when it comes to clothing, jewellry make-up and so on. It was so encouraging to read the posts in response to ginnyrose.

True beauty comes from the inside, and it is a shame to think that the only way to get attention, or to fit in, is to dress in a certain fashion. If we respect the Lord, ourselves and our families we would adhere to the Word of God which is our manual for life.

I see nothing wrong with the clothing featured in the sites that ginnyrose kindly shared with us. What a breathe of fresh air it is to see. Many ladies are nifty with needle and thread and can easily whip these items up for themselves and their daughters.

May I add that modesty in dress is not just to be aimed at the females. It is possible for men to be imodest as well - but not often spoken about.

As with movies. I saw a Ken Davis video. His father-in-law was not happy with his choice of movie and said something on the lines of:
What happened if strangers burst into your homes and abused your wife and daughters etc etc. Ken replied that he would throw them out. His father-in-law replied: "They're here".

Something to think about. What do we let into our homes without realising it. What do we expose our children and loved ones to.

Once again, thanks for all the posts.
Blessings

I think women that wear revealing outfits do so to get men to react.

Corey, you are absolutely right. Let me tell you a story....

One day I was at Wal-Mart, waiting for my DH to drive up when I saw a pretty young thing come walking up to the store with a cute little smile playing on her lips. She had fairly long hair, was dressed in a blouse with a long slit skirt, the slit was in front that came up so very far...as she was walking up to the store I watched her eyes and they were running to and fro as though to see who was watching her. (Lest someone accuse me of being judgemental, let me assure you this is what her body language was telling me.) This was so obvious, there was no mistaking what the girl was doing. She wanted attention and she got some, but I think she got the most from me! I was standing at a place where I could observe the entire thing.

I would like to float an idea here I would like some response: do modern females not like themselves? is that why they dress so provocatively? Or is it a perversion of God's curse on Eve "and thy desire shall be to thy husband.." (Gen. 3:16)?

Modern feminism has told us we need to compete with males, inferring that female roles are inferior, have less value. So in response to this they want - and do- dress like men, act like men (too bad they did not grow up on a working farm where the daughters had to work hard, get all dirty and stinky, clothes get torn, then patched). So they will dress immodestly to get male attention and the results will only deepen their feelings of guilt, inferiority because the attention they get is on the fleshly level, not the mind. Do females not want to be appreciated for the mind they have? the person they are, the character they are? Why concentrate on the reproductive facilities? Everybody has that machinery..nothing unique about that! Really! I know females want to be loved and admired by people, be they males or females....

Perhaps someone else can give us a better expositon on the reasons why this problem is so widespread - other then just wanting to fit in.

Blessings,
ginnyrose

I wonder if part of it is to gain authority over a man. Women can easily do that.

Pro 6:23 For the commandment [is] a lamp; and the law [is] light; and reproofs of instruction [are] the way of life:

Pro 6:24 To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman.

Pro 6:25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids.

Pro 6:26 For by means of a whorish woman [a man is brought] to a piece of bread: and the adulteress will hunt for the precious life.

Pro 6:27 Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned?

Pro 6:28 Can one go upon hot coals, and his feet not be burned?

Pro 6:29 So he that goeth in to his neighbour's wife; whosoever toucheth her shall not be innocent.

I think it is a fact that a woman can easily manipulate a man. Society even knows it and plays along with it. How many have ever heard of a man being on a "chain?" Or about "the look" that a woman can give a man and make him whimper like a pup?

It's somewhat humorous, but I think we all know it is true.

This is an interesting topic for me. I was married to a porn addict/alcoholic, and I recall the first time we went to Mexico together (while still dating), I put on a nice, modest, one-piece bathing suit and he immediately sent me back to the hotel room to change into a bikini, and he said that he never wanted to see me in anything else but a bikini. I recall being very uncomfortable in a bikini, because I have never been one who liked to draw attention to herself. This is a theme that has permeated my entire life.

It's been a long time since I've put on a bathing suit, I only do so to take my niece and nephew swimming at the local pool. Because of the sin and the "indoctrination" of my former husband, all of which I allowed because I was not walking in the Light, I have even moreso come to loathe how I look because it was never good enough for him. No matter what I did, it always had to be better. Tighter, more low-cut, more revealing, higher heels, well, you get my drift. He even took me to get me fitted for breast implants. I probably would have gone through with it too, had he had the $5K and been able to afford it. :-(

Now God is slowly dealing with me on that issue, healing the wounds and my self-esteem is slowly being lifted by the grace of God and His love for me.

All that to say this about the swimwear that is on those websites, I am not convinced that, to maintain holiness before God, one needs to go to the beach completely covered, but a nice, modest, one-piece bathing suit with maybe a wrap would be fine too. We are responsible to not lead others into sin, and that means dressing in a way that does not lead to impure thoughts on the part of another person.

I see 1 Corinthians 10:31-33 as a guide:

"Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved."

There will be such people who will think impure thoughts regardless of how modestly we dress, though. Over that, we have no control.

Just my thoughts on all this.

Mia and Bailey, Dugan, Buddy & Agnes the beagles.

I think that part of the reason some young women put themselves on display is because they have a deep seated hole in their hearts bacause they had no daddy to love them when growing up or "loved" them in a improper way.

They keep trying to prove that they are desirable and worth something, but are totally ignorant of the fact that this is the wrong answer.

Only Jesus can fill that hole in your heart, not some guy. So they go from man to man to man and none of them are the daddy they missed growing up. They need "The Father".

Also I too am amazed at what some girls are allowed by their parents to where to church or anywhere for that matter. Bellies and cleavage showing, and the parents appear oblivious to it. I had one woman tell me she told her daughter it was OK for a boy to tell her she was beautiful but not hot, as she was dressed in the something so low and tight a prostitute would have worn it. What is wrong with our brains? God help our iittle girls. The mother dressed this way too.

I will tell a personal testimony. I never let my girls wear anything revealing. After my oldest daughter got married she came to my house with a skirt an blouse on that revealed her tummy. I took her aside and told her that her tummy belonged to her husband and shouldn't be revealed to anyone but him. I don't know if she wears that outfit anymore, but she doesn't wear it around me and she is 30 years old.

We, men and women need to be modest. It isn't appropriate for men to wear mini speedos either.

Goldminer wrote:

I think that part of the reason some young women put themselves on display is because they have a deep seated hole in their hearts bacause they had no daddy to love them when growing up or "loved" them in a improper way.

This is a large part of the problem. Children learn from what they live with, and sadly most don't have the power to break the cycle. If only they knew there was a Way!

We have the craziest laws now (I guess you folk have them to). Human rights :-P what a joke. They are no rights at all. If you say no to your children or discipline them you can end up n a cell. If someone is wearing revealing clothing they have the right to express themselves (yes, they do certainly express themselves) but others do not have the right to point out the disadvantages of such dress. You could go on and on with examples.

I was looking after one of my elderly clients and she was watching a talk show on the tv. There was a young woman who had had 9 paternity tests for her son, and the latest man was not his father. Her dress was not modest, nor her speech. She was hysterical. My heart went out to her, it doesn't have to be like this for anyone. The thing that struck me was that she said that she has morals. I guess (to the world's view) morals change with the times. But morals are morals, and the Lord's guidelines are there to be taken seriously for they are a safe haven.

There is a total breakdown in the area of moral living, modesty and family values. People are proud and arrogant, catering for self alone, with no real love for fellow man. Yet we can rejoice because we know that He is coming soon!

Matthew 24:37
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

In the meantime let us not be idle, the harvest is ripe.

Blessings

KrispyKrittr wrote:
whenever we visit an "institutional" church my wife and I are amazed at what some women wear even to church.Krispy

Amen Brother! I have seen some wear more clothes to the beach than Church. You should be so Blessed like me to sit next to my wife and get to hear all the comments she makes when so nice looking lady walks by in front of us at Church with a low cut blouse and short dress and I am not joking I see this a lot. What in the world are these women thinking? are maybe there not thinking or they came strictly to meet a man and not God.

Before what I consider my conversion, I attended a bible college in Southern California. In fact, I went on staff for two years as the resident pool/water feature guy.

A few years before I came, I think they required women to wear shorts and t-shirts over their one-piece suits. By the time I got there, in 2002, they had just begun allowing women to wear "modest" two pieces without coverings. (No two-piece is modest, and, in my opinion, a one-piece is only as modest as that woman is unattractive.) By the time I left in 2005, girls at this bible college were not only wearing the scantest of two pieces but stalked about the campus in next to nothing as well. If a typical swimsuit isn't immodest, what is? What does it say of bible education coming from men who can't realize this and do something about it?

In late 2005, when I came to Christ, I was dumbfounded that this was allowed to go on. They call it "liberty", but I know for a fact, having been a student and staff member, that most men on campus complained to one another about "struggling with lust". Not badly enough to picket the pool!

I'm not out to point fingers. I was with them and I wasn't complaining about anything but the guilt and shame.

My candid request to any woman reading this, and to those men who have influence upon the women they know, is for women to seriously consider abstinence from form-fitting swimsuits unless you're certain you are unattractive. Even then, wearing one promotes the license of others who are. Recommendation: if you want to swim, wear a loose shirt, wear some long-ish board shorts. Better yet, swim with women. That's how it used to be until culture caved to the pressure and temptation.

Finally, some verses for your consideration.

"As a jewel of gold in a swine's snout, so is a beautiful woman without discretion." [Proverbs 11:22]

"[I desire] that women adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control; not with finely-braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire; But (which is appropriate to women professing godliness) with good works." [1 Tim. 2:9-10]

"Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God’s sight is very precious." [1 Pet. 3:3-4]

Note in this next verse the connection that is made between the uncovering of the legs and nakedness. This is to be a disgrace, not because the human form is itself shameful, but because it should not be used in ways tending necessarily to sin, and which defy the post-fall meaning of clothing.

"Take the millstones and grind flour,
put off your veil,
strip off your robe, uncover your legs,
pass through the rivers.
Your nakedness shall be uncovered,
and your disgrace shall be seen."
[Isaiah 47:2-3]

Now here's an interesting observation, for whatever it's worth. Following the fall into sin, Adam and Eve make loincloths, presumably covering an area similar to typical bathing suits. God does not leave them in this condition, but gives them more thorough coverings.

"Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths." ... "And the LORD God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them."

Note Matthew Henry's commentary on this passage,

Observe, 1. That clothes came in with sin. We should have had no occasion for them, either for defence or decency, if sin had not made us naked, to our shame. Little reason therefore we have to be proud of our clothes, which are but the badges of our poverty and infamy. 2. That when God made clothes for our first parents he made them warm and strong, but coarse and very plain: not robes of scarlet, but coats of skin. Their clothes were made, not of silk and satin, but plain skins; not trimmed, nor embroidered, none of the ornaments which the daughters of Sion afterwards invented, and prided themselves in. Let the poor, that are meanly clad, learn hence not to complain: having food and a covering, let them be content; they are as well done to as Adam and Eve were. And let the rich, that are finely clad, learn hence not to make the putting on of apparel their adorning, 1 Pt. 3:3. 3. That God is to be acknowledged with thankfulness, not only in giving us food, but in giving us clothes also, ch. 28:20. The wool and the flax are his, as well as the corn and the wine, Hos. 2:9. 4. These coats of skin had a significancy. The beasts whose skins they were must be slain, slain before their eyes, to show them what death is, and (as it is Eccl. 3:18) that they may see that they themselves were beasts, mortal and dying. It is supposed that they were slain, not for food, but for sacrifice, to typify the great sacrifice, which, in the latter end of the world, should be offered once for all. Thus the first thing that died was a sacrifice, or Christ in a figure, who is therefore said to be the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. These sacrifices were divided between God and man, in token of reconciliation: the flesh was offered to God, a whole burnt-offering; the skins were given to man for clothing, signifying that, Jesus Christ having offered himself to God a sacrifice of a sweet-smelling savour, we are to clothe ourselves with his righteousness as with a garment, that the shame of our nakedness may not appear. Adam and Eve made for themselves aprons of fig-leaves, a covering too narrow for them to wrap themselves in, Isa. 28:20. Such are all the rags of our own righteousness. But God made them coats of skins; large, and strong, and durable, and fit for them; such is the righteousness of Christ. Therefore put on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Rivqah,

Have you ever considered learning to sew? I have sewed as far back as I can remember and love it. (In fact, there are so many projects I want to do I think I have to live to be 200 years old to accomplish them! I shared this with a lady recently and she said "Good luck!"). This will give you total control on the styles you wear. And it is so much fun! Really! You can be creative and are limited only by your imagination. Now if you think you have this is short supply, never fear, this grows by degrees and can be developed. The biggest thing is to get started. And if you still have some reservations, ask the LORD to see what he would have you do. Methinks He is very interested in this project.

If you wish to discuss this more PM me.

Blessings,
ginnyrose

hi ya'll!
I just saw this thread...
I agree that sewing for yourself is the best way to go. I just want to say thank you for the encouragement given to seek to follow modesty!!
What I need to remember is that modesty is not just clothes and outward appearance...it is also an attitude and a spirit of...being under authority, I think is what it is, somewhere in the root of the matter!

And thinking of being under authority, I highly recommend the messages by Don Courville on '[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=688]How Satan Destroys a Church[/url]' Especially the 1st one ;) hope this ad is ok! ~Jerusala

Ginnyrose,
Thank you dear sister. May God draw you deeper in His word and payer. Indeed this a subject that is greatly needed to be spoken about in the Church.

Let love deeper and press in more to pray for our beloved sisters in the Lord, May Gods grace be given to them to see this is not helpful to other brotehrs or is it honoring to God. May God grow them deep desire in their hearts to honor Christ in what they wear. But even a women can be modest in dress and not in heart, so God draw us deep to grip our hearts to be modest in heart and dress.

One pastor said what you wear, show what is going in your heart. Let us go to our hearts.

Sisters If you want to know what Guys think, Go here and read what they have to say about what you wear. http://www.therebelution.com/modestysurvey/

In Christ Alone
Charlene

Rivqah,

Lady, you have a full-time job just caring for your children. Are you saying you work away from home and have still five younguns to care for? Methinks caring for five children plus a husband is a 24/7 job! We also had five children - four boys and one girl! It was a job back then and as the world is getting worse so is the task of mothering getting to be more difficult.

Take care and God bless!

ginnyrose

Wow! 33 Replies\t 2242 Views

This thread sure got a lot of folks attention, but not many wanted to key in. :-)

ginnyrose wrote:

It is a garb I do not have to be afraid who sees me nor do I experience any reluctance to ask the LORD for his protection while dressed like this!

theopenlife wrote:

A few years before I came, I think they required women to wear shorts and t-shirts over their one-piece suits. By the time I got there, in 2002, they had just begun allowing women to wear "modest" two pieces without coverings. (No two-piece is modest, and, in my opinion, a one-piece is only as modest as that woman is unattractive.) By the time I left in 2005, girls at this bible college were not only wearing the scantest of two pieces but stalked about the campus in next to nothing as well. If a typical swimsuit isn't immodest, what is? What does it say of bible education coming from men who can't realize this and do something about it?

Here we two examples of the extremes of Christianity and in my view both are wrong.

Legalism can rare it's head in the areas of clothing, music, hairstyles, and the use of cosmetics. Legalism comes into play when we decide that our standard in these areas is the correct standard and demand that everyone else abide by our standard, looking down on them or even considering them unspiritual if they do not.

Liberalism can also rare it's head in the areas of clothing, music, hairstyles, and the use of cosmetics. Liberalism comes into play when we decide that there is no real standard and if anyone says anything different then they don't understand God's grace and are missing the mark.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel After those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, And on their heart also will I write them: And I will be to them a God, And they shall be to me a people.

If you are truly born again you will know God's laws. You will know what is right and what is wrong. You will not need anyone one to tell you to dress this or that way your heart will guide you in way you should dress.

Holiness is not something you earn it's a character of God. God tells us be Holy as I am Holy. Many people try to be Holy but they will never get there in there own strength as only God is Holy. Holiness must be a work of the spirit there can be no other way but through the spirit. Can anyone say they are equal to God?

This is what I am finding in my own life it does not matter how I try I will never get to the standard that God expects from me. I must seek him to make me Holy, I must ask as in all my trying I will never to it. I have came to the conclusion that I stink, that I am unclean and there is no way that I can ever reach the standard that God requires. I never will manage so I must cry out to God and say.

Rom 7:24 Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?

I thank you God for Jesus the Christ that I am a son of God and he will hear my cry and will come down to deliver me and make me Holy.

Ginny if I had been one the guards while you white water rafting I would have put you in with the people that wore the least amount of clothes just to see how you would react.

Remember Jesus came to seek that what was lost.

i'm sorry if i am hijacking this thread, i just have a quick question. Please forgive me if i sound disgusting, but what is lust? because being a 17 year old , and i go to a public school, and some of the girls dress crazy, how do i know that i lust, like i have a main idea of what it is but can someone give me a definition, because the way i deal with this problem is i just look at the ground, its safe that way but sometimes you see a very beautiful young lady and i don't know if i lust, i just really want to be pure and Godly and i want to view young ladies in a pure and right fashion.

Again please forgive me that i am writing this and if it is inappropriate, this topic is a scary topic. Thanks much.

but what is lust?

Lust is when you have a strong desire for something that is not rightfully yours to have or use. Make sense? A person can lust for things (covetousness), for a persons body (fornicate), power (pride of life). Simply put it is a perversion of desire. Make sense?

I am impressed with your desire to be holy. You talk this over with the LORD and I am sure He will impress upon your mind what it is.

God bless you, son,
ginnyrose

Here we two examples of the extremes of Christianity and in my view both are wrong

So be it if obedience to the Holy Spirit's leading is being legalistic: I happily accept that distinction!

Sir, I wonder what gives with you? Anytime anyone takes a postion on anything you come along and call them legalistic or attack them in one form or another. Why do you fight others so much?

ginnyrose

Rivquah,

Thanks so much for sharing this: it is so timely! and I would guess most males who frequent this forum would say a hearty "AMEN!" I am no male but from discussions read here and elsewhere it is right on.

I have often wondered what one should do when a female visits your church wearing such immodest clothing - I am talking about low-cut necklines with ample cleavage showing. The last time a certain girl visited our church (she would visit occasionally because her grandparents attend there) wearing such skimpy clothing (she is a professing Christian) I got so upset and seriously wondered what can be done. She knows we ladies do not dress like this nor approve of it, so why on earth did she do it???? The idea flitted through my mind to go to the nursery and get a blanket and ask her to wrap it around her shoulders...she has not been there since and I do wonder if I would actually have the nerve to do it....

Anyhow, thanks for sharing Rivquah.

ginnyrose

I mean Sandra, right?

Most people call me this. Some call me Mom, or Grandma and one person calls me Honey! :-)

ginnyrose

Dear Ginnyrose,

I hate to just jump in, I have been following this thread and remember this situation well in some of the churches we have been in.

Ginnyrose wrote:

I have often wondered what one should do when a female visits your church wearing such immodest clothing - I am talking about low-cut necklines with ample cleavage showing. The last time a certain girl visited our church (she would visit occasionally because her grandparents attend there) wearing such skimpy clothing (she is a professing Christian) I got so upset and seriously wondered what can be done. She knows we ladies do not dress like this nor approve of it, so why on earth did she do it???? The idea flitted through my mind to go to the nursery and get a blanket and ask her to wrap it around her shoulders...she has not been there since and I do wonder if I would actually have the nerve to do it....

When we attended a denominational church that had many of these types of young girls my daughter sewed her own clothes, dresses, and wore a head covering.

Since I don't sew much, and have never worn a head covering I wondered where it came from.
She told me, "Mom, if I don't dress like this, I'll have to wear speghetti straps and a tight skirt".

Of course we stood with her. Once in the young people's Sunday School class the youth leaders wife asked the question to all that were there: "Who would you rather be approached and witnessed to by: this girl with the dress and a headcovering; or this girl with modern, skimpy clothes?"

Oddly, almost every single guy in the class said my daughter; and almost every single girl said the other girl wearing modern clothes.

Girls have a lot of competition, acceptance issues and pressures on every hand to conform to modern day "fashion".

My guess is, that if you had given her a blanket, she probably would have just gotten embarrassed but not changed her style of dress.
(How well do you know her grandparents? Could you gracefully approach them?)

Strangely, the same sunday school teacher who asked the question with my daughter in it, I had personally seen come up to the balcony and tell girls on the front to sit in a lady like fashion, as the ministers could see her underwear... on more than one occassion, and pretty much on every front row...

Yet, I can't help but wonder what older woman, one she would listen to, could approach her and let her know that God loves modesty?

That doesn't mean she has to wear a certain "style" of bibbed dress with 10 pleats in the front and back that reaches to her mid calf; but a modest style, one that is befitting a young woman representing godliness.

It is a quandry I have thought about often.

I pray that God would help all of us who are "older", have the grace, love and wisdom to teach these young women some discretion.

Blessings to you all!
Lori

Lori,

Very thoughtful post, Lori. It is so gratifying to know there are other ladies in other churches who share the same concerns.

You know it is very difficult for an older sister in the church to teach the young because they consider us white haired ladies to be old-fashioned and out-of-date with the times.

My guess is, that if you had given her a blanket, she probably would have just gotten embarrassed but not changed her style of dress.

You right on this. I know it really would not work, but I am frustrated because people should not have to deal with lustful thoughts when you are in a worship service honoring God! It is as though the devil himself is sitting there working to divert your attention away from God.

I had personally seen come up to the balcony and tell girls on the front to sit in a lady like fashion, as the ministers could see her underwear... on more than one occasion, and pretty much on every front row...

I have heard of churches erecting barriers in front of front rows to hide exposed flesh.

I pray that God would help all of us who are "older", have the grace, love and wisdom to teach these young women some discretion

This is what we need to pray earnestly about because we are considered old-fashioned, out of touch by the younger set.

Lori, there seems to me to be a more fundamental issue at stake here, do you not think? Do you not think it is the one that deals with the holiness of God? People have little or no concept of it. Too many regard God as a heavenly- Santa-Claus-in-the-sky that gives gifts when we ask for them, or make the right kind of noises. They do not seem to understand that God expects his children to be Holy because he is Holy. When I was at CPC the LORD impressed upon me to emphasize His holiness to my clients. I did and can you guess the reaction? It seemed to have been a foreign concept to them. They had great difficulty understanding it.

And another issue: do people understand what the voice of the Spirit sounds like? I wonder. Sure they will likely hear a still small voice but will dismiss it as not being relevant. They can do as they jolly well please regardless who thinks what...after all the Bible does not specifically spell out a few things. As long as the devil can keep people thinking like this, they will just jolly well do as the flesh pleases. The LORD is concerned how we live our lives every day, including how we cloth our bodies. He convicts me and surely I am not the only one He does this to, am I?

My thoughts - kind of scattered...hope they make some sense.

Blessings,
ginnyrose

Dear ginnyrose,

I just listened to a Keith Daniel sermon the other day, and I loved what he said: (probably some paraphrased by me...)

"You know everwhere you go the enemy will always have something/someone there that will be a situation for temptation. But remember, the first look is something you can not help; but anything else, any other looking IS your fault and it is sin." (Compromising Christianity sermon)

You know it is very difficult for an older sister in the church to teach the young because they consider us white haired ladies to be old-fashioned and out-of-date with the times.

Well, sure... I think we are... although I'm not quite white haired yet... Being "out of date" is probably accurate, but there is such a thing as "classic"...

Something a bit more timeless than "current trend", a representation of Christ's love that brings respect from those that are treated with respect.

My heart is that young women would recognize that they have a special gift on the inside of them, one that belongs to God; this gift is also very desired by the enemy and he loves it when a lovely, young lady dresses in cheap clothes. (not necessarily in cost; but definately in response- a cheapening effect...)

Do you not think it is the one that deals with the holiness of God? People have little or no concept of it.

Yes, there is quite the issue with the "concept" of the holiness of God... In part that is due to the overwhelming lack that generations of churchgoers have represented in their own lives of holy living.

As we know, holy living is more than just dress, it is just one small aspect. There have been far, far too many churchgoers that have dressed so carefully for church- but their mouths are an uncontrolled, their attitudes are self justifying, they may be harsh or accomidating, but they lack the genuine beauty of holiness.

So now until we by prayer, tears, genuineness of spirit and love earn back the respect of the younger generation there will always be the resistance.

And another issue: do people understand what the voice of the Spirit sounds like? I wonder. Sure they will likely hear a still small voice but will dismiss it as not being relevant. They can do as they jolly well please regardless who thinks what...after all the Bible does not specifically spell out a few things. As long as the devil can keep people thinking like this, they will just jolly well do as the flesh pleases. The LORD is concerned how we live our lives every day, including how we cloth our bodies. He convicts me and surely I am not the only one He does this to, am I?

(No, I'm sure you're not the only one)

You are right about that, it is hard in this day for souls to hear the voice of the Spirit. There are so many voices- loud voices- booming in the ears; how difficult is it to recognize the "still, small voice"! More difficult still for souls to choose to obey it as they have so many to choose from, some which are much more easy on the flesh.

Many, many voices, all clammoring for the attention of what the hearer will spend their life for. Especially voices in all manner of media that direct the "simple" to honor their own ideas above time honored ideas, to choose thier own way not necessarily God's way.

Just a side note: I do believe that the way young girls dress is not just a "sign of the times" in the respect of fashion; more a lack of respect within the homes- especially for the fathers.

(Although I can tell you from experience that proper dress in and of itself does not bring proper direction to young ladies. Even when covered with good teaching, much prayer, great examples all around...

Each soul MUST choose their own path- are YOU going God's way all the way? Or are YOU going to rather choose some passing pleasure of sin, some self gratifying idea, or believe some stupid lie of the devil?)

That's why I believe that we NEED a revival so badly! One that's not merely for show, numbers, or experiences. Rather, one that emanates from the deepest part of ones spirit into the daily life, through the home, into and through [b]the body of Christ[/b]- flowing out with such grace, beauty and power that the unbeliever and the backslider are swept off their feet!

That same kind of thing that Paul talks about in Corinthians where an unlearned man walks into a congregation and the thoughts of his heart are revealed and he is convicted by all and he will fall on his face and say 'the LORD is in this place'!

That's the kind of holiness we need!

I'm sure I've been rambling.. please excuse the length of this post.

Love and prayers,
Lori

That's why I believe that we NEED a revival so badly! One that's not merely for show, numbers, or experiences. Rather, one that emanates from the deepest part of ones spirit into the daily life, through the home, into and through the body of Christ- flowing out with such grace, beauty and power that the unbeliever and the backslider are swept off their feet!

You are absolutely right.

What has happened - and it happened so slowly - is that the focus of evangelism centers on Man and not God: the point being made how responding to the message benefits man. The holiness of God is rarely mentioned; the fact that we are doomed to hell without the intervention of Jesus is sidelined, rarely given the emphasis it needs. People are 'sold fire insurance' and little else. That is why you have people say 'once saved always saved' and lifestyles mean nothing! If you are saved and filled with the Spirit it will impact your lifestyle. (Gal. 5:16-26.) "By their fruits ye shall know them!" says Jesus.

Love your insights, Lori....anymore?

Blessings,
ginnyrose

Dearest ginnyrose,

What has happened - and it happened so slowly - is that the focus of evangelism centers on Man and not God: the point being made how responding to the message benefits man. The holiness of God is rarely mentioned; the fact that we are doomed to hell without the intervention of Jesus is sidelined, rarely given the emphasis it needs.

Somewhat like that proverbial frog in the boiling water syndrome...

Although, I have read Tozer who warned of these things 40+ years ago, Ravenhill who brings up many of these elements over and over again. There are those that this day preach an uncompomising message, though not as many as should be, yet, there is still a lack within the body. I have for many years, with groanings, asking God, why...

I do believe that it reaches beyond the "once saved always saved" doctrine. Into the far reaches of the heart of those that believe that Jesus Christ is God's Son. Far more than any simple answers I can come up with.

If you are saved and filled with the Spirit it will impact your lifestyle.

Yes, it does; but it is only the beginning of a life of obedience that must be learned, and surrendered to.

The kind of life of surrender that is willing to [i]...take wrong.. suffer yourselves to be defrauded...[/i];

to [i]walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind[/i];

[i]Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that [b]which is good for the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers[/b][/i];

While putting away those things humanity wrestles with like bitterness, clamour, ALL malice and of course wrath and anger; the more difficult in the experience of walking in this life is often more:
[i]be ye kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake has forgiven you.[/i]

Far too often within churches there is a "putting up with each other" more than there is a tenderheartedness. Far to many hold onto an anger about what someone said or did to them, even when they say 'oh, I've forgiven all that'; it does not take much rubbing up against to see it come out... quite unlike God did for Christ sake towards us.

Not to mention the covetousness of a lifestyle full of bread and idleness of time;

a lack of true fellowship that encourages honesty, love, and accountablility;

the great hinderance of just being too busy to keep our minds on those things which are above;

the lack of brokenheartedness before God for our pride, our selfishness, our pharisaical attitudes, our desire for the acceptance of men rather than the countenance of God shining on us.

I am not necessarily the best witness, the most perfect testimony, the most quiet or gentle, I have stuck my foot in my mouth so many times it's amazing I don't have athletes tongue.

I only have [i]1[/i] thing going for me: Christ loves me and He gave Himself for me, and HE loves me enough to show me who I really am;

and throughout this path I am learning to recognize my absolute utter inability to DO anything but pursue Him.

When I look my own fruits vs. the works of the flesh, sometimes I cringe; then the Lord draws me to a place of... I don't know a word for it... looking in the mirror- seeing Christ and His sacrifice on the behalf of every living soul-and my greatest enemy- me.

He will take it, He will wash us, He will give us what we need for each and every day, He will revive our souls, He will bring a revival inside of homes and churches perhaps even communities and nations.... But not without our seeing our own desperate need for what Christ alone can give.

I can try to paste fruit on, but only when my life is absorbed in Christ does HE cause me to be fruitful in those wonderful fruits... love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance....

I love what a preacher from Times Square Church used to say: "We're called to bear fruit, not produce it."

Holiness, is to me, a pursuit; something that we desire to be because, as was brought up "because God is holy.." and when we love Him and desire to be His dear children we want to be like Him.

My hearts cry to young women and women everywhere in the body of Christ:

Every struggle, every confusion, every misunderstanding, every victimization, every emotion pressed out beyond measure, every hope for this life, was purchased by our Lord Jesus Christ on the cross. On which He suffered and bought the right to everything that you are or could ever hope to be. He longs to make you into a vessel that would hold the most precious ointment He could give.

Don't sell out! The world and all its voices will try to give you gifts, flatter you, cozy up to you; but everything there is about this world is but a shiny bobble worthless, and vain. Yet, once they have you in their grasp they will turn and tear you to pieces.

That place, deep on the inside that longs for love and acceptance can only be found in Him who gave [b]everything to have you![/b]

Sorry for the going on and on...
and thank you for your patience and the opportunity to voice some of this.

Love in Christ,
Lori

Lori,
You said it well. You said so much:

Far too often within churches there is a "putting up with each other" more than there is a tenderheartedness.

And no reconciliation is ever achieved because of it. Resentments fester, get buried; unity is destroyed and for fear of causing an uproar, people remain silent. Apostasy sets in and brotherhood is lost.

I am not necessarily the best witness, the most perfect testimony, the most quiet or gentle, I have stuck my foot in my mouth so many times it's amazing I don't have athletes tongue.

Oh, Lori! I laughed when I read this! I say something similar: I have "hoof and mouth disease" - there really is a disease like this that infects cattle. :-o . Yes, I say it when my mouth gets ahead of my common sense!

Don't sell out! The world and all its voices will try to give you gifts, flatter you, cozy up to you; but everything there is about this world is but a shiny bobble worthless, and vain. Yet, once they have you in their grasp they will turn and tear you to pieces.

Now ain't that the truth!

The entire problem with confronting females about their immodesty is the anger it evokes when something is said. Yes, I know this is another symptom of something being amiss in that person's life...They become so defensive which leads me to believe the Holy Spirit has been speaking and they resent it and when they hear another person voicing those sentiments, they will now have a body they can fight and it will be the person who confronted them. And who loves to be the victim of that anger? No one as far as I know, so we remain silent to avoid it. And the males refuse to speak up because for similar reasons.

Don't we just see how the devil has all this thing screwed up? Seems to me the brethren who preach revival should address the practical aspects of it and not be afraid of stepping on a few toes...

Thanks for sharing Lori and Rivquah. (Sorry I was so slow in responding - I was busy in the greenhouses this week, transplanting tomato plants.)

Blessings,
ginnyrose

Worthy of listening, Biblical principals for Godly dress [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=15167&commentView=itemComments]Dean Taylor[/url]

The entire problem with confronting females about their immodesty is the anger it evokes when something is said. Yes, I know this is another symptom of something being amiss in that person's life...They become so defensive which leads me to believe the Holy Spirit has been speaking and they resent it and when they hear another person voicing those sentiments, they will now have a body they can fight and it will be the person who confronted them. And who loves to be the victim of that anger? No one as far as I know, so we remain silent to avoid it. And the males refuse to speak up because for similar reasons.

One time during a church service I went downstairs to the restroom and inside was a younger lady, whom I did not know, who decided to talk to me. She told me her testimony, how she had been saved out of the JW's, how she worked in a highly male area and how God had convicted her of her clothing and how she decided that she would rather make Jesus the Lord happy than to manipulate men. This single mother was only a couple of years old, in the Lord.

I try to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit in regards to those things, I know a young lady who would be crushed and feel that I was "judging her" if I were to tell her that she was showing far too much cleavage... so I just pray, and if she does wear something that's more modest I tell her how wonderful she looks. You know, she's not perfect, but she has changed a lot of the clothes she wears and I haven't said a word.

If I were to take a little piggy, clean it up, put proper clothing on it, carry it around with me and treat it as a puppy it might do that for awhile; but sooner or later that piggy is going to see a mud bog and run to it and wallow in the mire, because it’s still a pig.

I'm sure you know, but far too many people look on the outward to make their assumptions of what’s inside; but the Lord looks on the heart and it’s His desire to change ‘the heart’, to make the person new- born again- renewed in the spirit of their mind- turned from darkness to light- from rebellion to obedience- and from pride to humility. Surely enough, as you have said, once that heart is changed, there is ample room for the Holy Spirit to convict of anything that is opposite of Christ-likeness.

In my opinion, for whatever that ‘s worth..., the preacher needs to be simply concerned with “what is God’s heart” for this moment in time, for this place, for these people... oh, there may certainly be some practicality in those teachings-but there are far too many other more concerning issues at hand.

I’ve seen too many people that dress in a particular “modest” style to please someone else, some teacher, some group; but on the inside they are still the same, and even more often- they point the finger at those that are not dressed such as themselves and surround themselves only with those who have the same clothes, looking at others in disdain.

Truly, truly, in my heart of hearts, I believe that 2 things would make a difference in the lives of young women, and women in general especially in regards to their “fashion”, as well as those "other issues in their hearts":

1. Men who stand in the position of head of household maintaining the standard of the household according to godliness and wisdom. (Now perhaps that would be some wonderful revival teaching!)

2. A fellowship of women, not filled with foolishness! One that is spiritual and practical, women teaching women not simply with words, but with the focus and representation of their lives!

I have grown so weary of the fluff and waste of time that the majority of women’s activities are, that unless I feel that God would have me specifically go there, I just won’t go.

A couple of years ago I had thought about a plan for a Biblical Women’s Meeting. Where children were welcome, grandmothers would help the mothers learn to keep their children quiet, under control and/or occupied- there may even be activities for the children to learn (depending on age) taught by older children (who usually love to be the teachers for smaller children.)

Someplace the practical needs of women both non Christian and Christian were actually addressed. (Not some place where you just try to “sneak” up on non Christian women with some emotional plea; but somewhere they can say- I need childcare I can trust- and the group either finds one or starts one. ‘I have no transportation’, finds some or drive them for awhile. A place where experience can help the less experienced!

Where learning the practicality of growing tomatoes, and then canning them is taught. Where mothers can find more than a place of escape from the children, but learn how to order her day a little so she can have a little quiet time of her own at home! Where one might learn to sew, or knit, or bake bread. Where learning to pray for each other, and have genuine concern for each other has the opportunity to be lived out.

Learning to set aside that ridiculous competitive spirit this world absorbs women in; learn to take the little- bitty, sensitive spirit that’s always getting their feelings hurt and laying it at the feet of the cross! Give the Lord those words that are UN-Christ-like, that spirit of selfishness and pride, that gossip, that bad attitude towards your husband, that bitterness, that hurt, that improper thought-life, those feelings of confusion and ASK for help! From God, in honesty; and from our “spiritual” mothers in humility; from friends that will do more than “feel your pain”- but actually hold you accountable and help you with an abundance of prayer!

I guess you could say, a spiritual, biblical based, home ec. of sorts.

Yet there needs to be a group of women who have enough sense, enough Jesus Christ, enough leading of the Holy Spirit that can actually reach out to the myriads of women who are being swallowed up in this ghastly time of independence, separation, and the “ophra” mentality!

Women who are properly “under authority”, who can express what it means to be “sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, and obedient to their own husbands that the word of God be not blasphemed..”

Even the struggling can be a blessing if what they have learned is to throw off the burdens of this life, the fears of this life, the foolish thinking of this life and to “put on Christ”.

But, it wasn't to be... perhaps another time, another place, it's still in my heart and the Lord knows that.

You know, I think we have become so afraid we neglect the sinner, or the churchperson living in sin... For years when I sensed that somehow I felt "threatened" by some other female her looks, her dress, her manner, her eyes- I walked right up to her stuck out my hand and introduced myself; or asked about their well being. Praying the entire time that the Lord would use me! Looking at someone right in the eyes to say, "By the Spirit of God I am NOT afraid!!!" (Not just for them, for me too!)

Honesty in love is a powerful weapon. Love poured out with words of grace is a powerful weapon. Words of grace that are led by the Spirit of God is a very powerful weapon! Prayer is a powerful weapon! "The weapons of our warefare are not carnal, but mighty in God for the pulling down of strongholds." mine, and anyone else's.

In my heart I believe that revival will spark when we: can get past the issues that cause us to shrink back; to neglect the "babies"; to ignore the devastating condition that so many hearts are in; to expect others to minister to the widows and the orphans; can find a way to impart the day to day- moment by moment, practical, spiritual message of the cross; and to have such an intensity of the love of God that it changes how we see everything!

What could be more honoring to God than teaching a young mother how to love her child and to respect her husband! How loving to teach a young woman how to respect the gift God placed on the inside of herself! How Christlike to humble ourselves and wash the feet of these who plod along dirty roads, even if they become angry!

Well, I guess I have fallen under the "using many words" area again! Sorry, for the rambling on..and on.. Thank you for your patience.

Love in Christ,
Lori

The only way to handle this problenm in the church is some good hard preaching (in love).

How many years do you think "good hard preaching" has been around?

If I could count how many great, annointed, fire and brimstone, "hard" messages I have heard in just my life, mostly in person not to count those on tape, on paper, in books, etc, etc. But I don't see that alone changing the style of life of people inside the church.

God has an established order,

1. Men who stand in the position of head of household maintaining the standard of the household according to godliness and wisdom

What good does it do for a church to hear a powerful sermon if they are not willing to bring their own families in line with the word of God?

The lovey dovey stuff can come afterwards

If God had not loved me when I was completely unlovable I would not be here, I would probably be dead by now or wish I were.

If the Lord Jesus Christ had not loved us enough as a sinful, rebellious people that He hung on a cross and endured horrific shame and judgement from God on MY behalf- there would be no hope!

If I do not learn as a member of the body of Christ to love as Christ loved on this earth, then all the powerful preaching in this world will profit me little.

[i]And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.
God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Herein is our love made perfect,
that we may have boldness in the day of judgement
because as He is,
so are we in this world.[/i]

I pray that we all would love enough that we don't expect the "preacher" to do all the work for us.

If we have a problem with another person in the church that calls themself a Christian then we have a responsibility to go to that person, not talk about them, not get stressed out about them, [b]go to them[/b], and if they won't hear....and on and on..

If a member of leadership, or a member of his family, is representing themselves in such a way that they are grievous to me, then I, as a woman, would talk to my husband and ask for his advice, because that is his place.

If I felt like God had turned a place loose, that He was allowing them to go in a continual fashion towards judgement, and they would not hear the Spirit of God, through good preaching or otherwise; I would leave. And if someone called and asked why, in honesty and love I would tell them.

Honesty in love is a powerful weapon. Love poured out with words of grace is a powerful weapon. Words of grace that are led by the Spirit of God is a very powerful weapon! Prayer is a powerful weapon! "The weapons of our warefare are not carnal, but mighty in God for the pulling down of strongholds." mine, and anyone else's.

Love is not a "mamby pamby", quiver lest I offend, bowl of marshmellows; but neither is it like Nicki Cruz's first "convert": "If you don't repent, I'm going to kill you!"

Warren Wiersbe said this: love without honesty is mushy sentimentality, honesty without love is just harshness.

Since you obviously have your mind made up about what I meant by what I said, let me clarify.

I'm not sure where you got bent that I would EVER say anything opposing to this statement! I would no more want anyone to be comforatable in their sins, not mine, not yours not anyones, than I would want them to die and go into hell.

Why should we be made comfortable in our sin? I'm so glad for christians who tell the truth in love.

Speaking the truth in love... is exactly what I was talking about. BUT, I will not choose to do MY will and say something that God had not intended for me to say.

I shouldn't have worn it. You should have seen the look on the faces of some of those women when I walked in! They made me so uncomfortable and than I started feeling the conviction. I never dressed like that again.

See, you did not have to hear a preacher, and no one had to come up to you and tell you that you had dressed inappropriately.

Although if a door had been opened to me, as a Christian woman, and I had the opportunity to speak with you or any other girl who was inappropriately dressed, I'd do it in a hot tick!

I've have seen far, far too many churches that have not only heard the gospel, they have wept crocidile tears up one side and down the other and turned right around and went and did their own thing.

There is NO doubt a need for powerful, Spirit led, preaching; but without the responsibilities of the body of Christ walking it out in a day to day life... well, we end up with a lot of what we have today...

I agree, it is a shameful way for anyone to be, and I fear what they will have to answer for.

Don't forget, though, 20 years ago we had Tammy Faye Baker...

I am grieved in my heart to think that the problem within many churches is that they have no fear of God. Else how could they be so shameless? How else could they hear the Word more than the large majority of the world hears in their entire lives, and continue in their own way?

That is exactly some of the foolishness I was thinking of.. plus much more all around... I have heard it called and agree that "spiritual insanity" seems to be running amok.

Since Christ said, "you have that which will judge you in that day, the word which I have spoken to you." (paraphrsed John 12:48) I wonder how many Bible verses folks will remember in that day when all of their works are brought up at the judgement seat?

Blessings,
Lori

I'm so glad this thread is receiving some serious attention, especially from you sisters. Praise God.

Rivquah,

Now how about the practice of sun tanning? If you google 'dangers of sun tanning' you will find more info then you want to read that will show how this is dangerous.

When you stop and think about it, all these things are done to elevate self. And for what purpose?

This still brings us back to having to ask the LORD to show us how we should dress. I well remember hearing David Wilkerson say many years ago how one should look in the mirror and ask the LORD for his opinion on how I am attired. The key is submission to the LORD. If one has to make sacrifices now in order to be obedient, it will be as nothing once we get to heaven. And if we rebel and end up in hell, one will think how stupid it was to rebel and from that there will be no escape. (I do not know if a single act of rebellion may take one to hell, but it puts you on a slippery slope which will be difficult to get off from. Slippery slope - ever been on a very slippery slide when a child? Does this teach us something?)

Rivquah, you have a passion for this subject - this is very encouraging to this grandmother.

Blessings,
ginnyrose

Roniya wrote:
A Godly Man Comments on Modesty
By: Anonymous

I’m 34 years old and single. Up until I was 26, I shamelessly indulged in lust while I outwardly paraded myself around as an upstanding Christian man. But today, because of the blood of Jesus and deep repentance, I am able to say that I am no longer that man. And the work of God’s grace has not only taught me to deny the ungodliness of lustful thoughts, but to go one step further and truly seek to honor you as sisters in my thoughts.

I wish I could write to you and tell you I am able to walk into church without any fear of encountering the temptation to lust anymore; but I can’t. In fact, to be honest, in the past 8 years I’ve even decided not to go to church on more than one occasion because I knew I was too weak to face some of the women there.

This man has not been set free from lust he stills lives in defeat. He has not had the unclean removed from inside he is only supressing the thoughts he has.

John 8v34-36 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. Who the son sets free is free indeed.

This man is still the servant of Sin. Jesus says whoever the the son sets free is free indeed. He does not need to suffer the torment he goes through he can be set free.

Living in defeat and torment and calling it Godly Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!.

But today, because of the blood of Jesus and deep repentance, I am able to say that I am no longer that man. I wish I could write to you and tell you I am able to walk into church without any fear of encountering the temptation to lust anymore; but I can’t. In fact, to be honest, in the past 8 years I’ve even decided not to go to church on more than one occasion because I knew I was too weak to face some of the women there.

I don't think we have enough information to believe that he is not a Christian just based on that article.

Paul Washer struggles with lust (he says he really struggles with it)and yet we believe that he is a Christian.

murrcolr wrote:

Roniya wrote:
A Godly Man Comments on Modesty
By: Anonymous

I’m 34 years old and single. Up until I was 26, I shamelessly indulged in lust while I outwardly paraded myself around as an upstanding Christian man. But today, because of the blood of Jesus and deep repentance, I am able to say that I am no longer that man. And the work of God’s grace has not only taught me to deny the ungodliness of lustful thoughts, but to go one step further and truly seek to honor you as sisters in my thoughts.

I wish I could write to you and tell you I am able to walk into church without any fear of encountering the temptation to lust anymore; but I can’t. In fact, to be honest, in the past 8 years I’ve even decided not to go to church on more than one occasion because I knew I was too weak to face some of the women there.

This man has not been set free from lust he stills lives in defeat. He has not had the unclean removed from inside he is only supressing the thoughts he has.

John 8v34-36 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. Who the son sets free is free indeed.

This man is still the servant of Sin. Jesus says whoever the the son sets free is free indeed. He does not need to suffer the torment he goes through he can be set free.

Living in defeat and torment and calling it Godly Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!.

But today, because of the blood of Jesus and deep repentance, I am able to say that I am no longer that man. I wish I could write to you and tell you I am able to walk into church without any fear of encountering the temptation to lust anymore; but I can’t. In fact, to be honest, in the past 8 years I’ve even decided not to go to church on more than one occasion because I knew I was too weak to face some of the women there.

Who said he wasn't a Christian.

This man is still the servant of Sin.

Living in defeat and torment and calling it Godly Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!.

Temptation is not sin. What this man is going through is more than temptation.

A man who can't go to church because he could not stand to face the women there.

In fact, to be honest, in the past 8 years I’ve even decided not to go to church on more than one occasion because I knew I was too weak to face some of the women there.

Why is he so weak because he is still a slave to the lust. No this man is tormented and he needs help.

But if your happy to call being so tormented by sexual thoughts to the point you don't go to the church Godly then on you go.

So filled with lust and selfish ambition that you don't even care who you cause to stumble.

How terribly terrible! Reminded me of those things Peter wrote about in 2Peter chpt.2...

My question to the men is this:
Sure there may always be a struggle with the flesh, but, when a woman is dressing in such a way to cause someone to stumble in a way of- "being in torment" as someone else mentioned, why is there no expressions towards the men who are these women's husbands or fathers, that their women folk need to be more discreet?

I can see that if a male struggles with these things that regardless of where he is the enemy will place those things in front of him that would cause that struggle. The enemy always seems to recognize our weaknessses and continually pesters that point.

But, if there is an immature woman or an unsaved woman who dresses inappropriately in church that is one thing, but if in some position of "leadership" is so blind and those who are their "heads" can not see the stumbling-block of those around them, something is seriously wrong.

I believe that it is a shared responsibility, women who profess godliness should not knowingly be a stumblingblock. If the apostle Paul said he would never eat meat again if it causes his brother to stumble- then how far have we fallen from that? Are we so blind?

I can't see how it is also not the responsibility of the brotherhood to have open communication with the other brothers regarding their womenfolk... with wisdom of course and grace, but with honesty as well.

Thankful for godly men and women who seek to be aware of their own persons!!

In Christ,
Lori

murrcolr wrote:
Who said he wasn't a Christian.

The things you wrote earlier gives me the impression that you don't believe he's a Christian. If I've misinterpreted, then apologies.

But if your happy to call being so tormented by sexual thoughts to the point you don't go to the church Godly then on you go.

Show some compassion and understand the fight he's going through. There are churches out there that I wouldn't to go to either if the women dressed like that...knowing what I'd have to see - the distractions, the temptations - flaunted right before my eyes. There have been times in my own church I have moved my seat because women in front of me wore clothing too distractive.

First of all that statement does not come from the letter and has it not occured to you that he is filled with lust. The question I ask is how he manages outside the church if he struggles so much inside the church. He should be more passonite crusading against his own sinful state.

Have YOU heard of drunkards that have come to Christ and in a moment getting total and absolute victory over drink. These declare that that they have never fallen again and also that the very desire for alcohol has been taken away.

Know that is the power of God giving Victory over sin.

Know looking at this mans life would you say that this man has the victory or is he trying in his own strength to be Godly trying his hardest not to sin. I ask is that right is this what Jesus died for so we can struggle over sin.

Is this what we are to accept as Christianity a religion that has no power to deliver us from Sin but then leaves us struggling in Sin and then we call it GODLY.

If you are a man struggling with Lust, then you should know this Jesus can set you free and deliver you so the very desire in you is removed and you will get to place that you will not fall again.

If you are a man struggling with Lust, then you should know this Jesus can set you free and deliver you so the very desire in you is removed and you will get to place that you will not fall again.

I ask is that right is this what Jesus died for so we can struggle over sin.

Is this what we are to accept as Christianity a religion that has no power to deliver us from Sin but then leaves us struggling in Sin and then we call it GODLY.

Question: can you explain the difference between temptation and sin and where/how the former becomes the latter?

Brother Paul

yea, lust is insanly difficult to battle, like its not funny how hard it is, i guess this is why God said to flee from it not battle it.

The question is how do you flee from it?

what do you do on a friday night, when your parents arent home, and the computer is on? and you are tempted?

That right there is by far the most hardest thing i have ever had to go through.

It is a very scary situation, because what do you do? i dont have a car at the moment my parents arent home, and while your tempted you try to do somthign else to get you mind of of it, but it is always on your mind. In those situation i guess you have to get out of the house and just bolt down the street until your exhasted, because those situation...man they are scary.

I am very sorry for writing this, if it was graphic or bad, or anything.

But i must say this is by far the hardest thing young men face, at least for me.

Thanks much

what do you do on a friday night, when your parents arent home, and the computer is on? and you are tempted?

You ask about what to do on a Friday night when your parents aren't home and the temptation arises to go to internet sites you know you shouldn't be on. The answer to this (which is obvious) is to resist the temptation. You are right about it being very frightening. Sometimes the urge can come upon you like an armed man; all it can take is one passing image on television or a billboard or even a Christian magazine and suddenly a strong desire can wage war in your members. You need to understand that this is not sin; this is temptation.

You talk about what to do on a Friday night when this happens. My response is that if you had spent Friday [i]day[/i] looking to Jesus in fellowship and in the Word, and had you had your quiet time in the morning, that armed man would be kept at bay and his assault foiled before it even begins. Remember, when we walk in the Spirit we automatically mortify the flesh, and you'll find it won't even be a conscious effort on your part. If we are careful to look to Jesus (and keep looking) the Spirit will protect our minds and feed our inner men with divine manna which is able to repel these temptations so that we might not yield to them. [i]"Lead us not into temptation..."[/i]

The key, as in everything else, is looking to Jesus. He alone is our strength, our life, our victory. Brother, learn what it means to look to Jesus.

Brother Paul

PaulWest wrote:

If you are a man struggling with Lust, then you should know this Jesus can set you free and deliver you so the very desire in you is removed and you will get to place that you will not fall again.

Have you reached this state? We will never get to the place where we [i]cannot[/i] fall again, no preacher of yet has attained (or obtained) this status, and we can begin with the Apostle Paul. He exhorted Timothy to [i]flee[/i] youthful lusts; you tell us not to, in fact, you would make it seem that the man who physically flees is a servant of sin. This is precisely the kind of ministry that destroys, that heaps heavy condemnation on men and women who struggle against indwelling sin and temptation by making them appear as guilty that they even have these feelings. When the truth is, their lives are an on-going practice of mortification and self-denial which is entirely scriptural.

You are misunderstanding what I am saying didn't I mention lust and that is what they would never fall again into that lust. So the alcohlics I mentioned earlier are Liars when they say they have never fallen into drinking strong drink again and that the very desire has been completely removed from them.

Is there such a life well 1John5v4 tells us that every child of God overcomes the world.

I ask is that right is this what Jesus died for so we can struggle over sin.

This is the flaw of your argument, we are not talking about sin; we are talking about temptation. It is scriptural and healthy to resist tempation - especially during seasons where lusts can flare up - and the Bible is laden with exhortation of such, but nowhere will you find the promise that we will attain a state where we [i]will[/i] not fall or fail God. I thank God for my many failings as a believer and the humility wrought through them.

Paul there you go again I am talking about Lust and Lust is a sin (Matt5v28) not a temptation then you take sin and change it into failings. If your Lusts are flaring up then by the Matt5v28 you are sinning and seems you have sucumb to the temptation but God can help you. The following verses should help you undersatnd that Jesus came to set you free from Sin. You don't have to struggle with your Lusts anymore.

Look at the verse below Jesus will save his people from sin.

Matthew 1v21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Christ himself said be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect Matt5v48.

Matt 9v26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

1John 2v1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not

1John 3v9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God

Romans 6v11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord

Romans 6v14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Is such a thing possible it's not a question of absolute sinlessness like Christ after all John says if we say we have no sin then we decieve ourselves but we can obtain victory over all known or voluntary sin.

If your Lusts are flaring up then by the Matt5v28 you are sinning and seems you have sucumb to the temptation but God can help you.

I think once we find this out it may help the discussion.

Paul

Watered wrote:
yea, lust is insanly difficult to battle, like its not funny how hard it is, i guess this is why God said to flee from it not battle it.

The question is how do you flee from it?

what do you do on a friday night, when your parents arent home, and the computer is on? and you are tempted?

That right there is by far the most hardest thing i have ever had to go through.

It is a very scary situation, because what do you do? i dont have a car at the moment my parents arent home, and while your tempted you try to do somthign else to get you mind of of it, but it is always on your mind. In those situation i guess you have to get out of the house and just bolt down the street until your exhasted, because those situation...man they are scary.

I am very sorry for writing this, if it was graphic or bad, or anything.

But i must say this is by far the hardest thing young men face, at least for me.

Thanks much

Esp 6 v 16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.

What I like to do is when there are thoughts coming against me is to fight back in prayer and also rejecting the thoughts that are attacking me and confessing any scriptures that come to kind at the time.

That is how it's done spiritually.

Practically if it's possible have someone round to your house. Have something arranged so your not there alone on the Friday.

Remember what you resist gets weaker and what you yield to gets stronger. The more you resist the weaker the temptation will get. The more you yield the stronger it will get.

Hope that helps

PaulWest wrote:

If your Lusts are flaring up then by the Matt5v28 you are sinning and seems you have sucumb to the temptation but God can help you.

No, the Word of God says that when lust [i]hath conceived[/i] it bringeth forth sin. Lust brings sin into our members, like a woman brings a child in the world. Tempation is not sin, even to be tempted by a beautiful woman. In order to be tempted, you must first be cognizant of the object of temptation. God doesn't take away our desires for the opposite sex; but He teaches us self-control and expects us to mortify the flesh by the Spirit. What is there to mortify if He delivers us altogeter from the desire? By the way, you still haven't answered my question about when temptation becomes sin :)

I think once we find this out it may help the discussion.

Paul

Matt 5 v 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Matt 5 v 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Notice James doesn't say "every man sins" but that every man is tempted. Friend, I've rebutted all your points, but you still haven't answered my one question, and this is the third time I've asked, so here it is again, this time with a couple of add-ons - consider it interest:)

When does temptation become sin? And when does lust conceive sin, according to the abovementioned scripture, and how do you tie it into the original post to accuse this man of being a "servant of sin" having never met him or having intimate knowledge of God's dealings with his heart?

Hi

I was wondering whether there are any guidelines for Men on how to dress (not only in the church, but also while working in a secular field).
#Do you think that one should be modestly dressed in the church and probably he can be more casual while working in his secular field? (i am not saying that the person needs to be haywire, though).

Hope to get some insights on the same, since i myself struggle with these.

Dear Watered,

In those situation i guess you have to get out of the house and just bolt down the street until your exhasted,

I think that is a very appropriate picture, Joseph literally ran away from one trying to seduce him!

I also think it is important, according to my husband- and I believe so as well, that young men have something real to do.

We live in a time of 'fullness of bread and idleness of time..' which can give us too much time to just sit around and think about things.

My husband who grew up around animals, bucking bales of hay and so forth believes that when a man learns the difference of what is real and what is merely within the "imaginations" that it can help ALOT!

Perhaps, if you know beforehand that your parents are going to be gone in the evening, you can get together with a group and have a Bible Study, shoot some hoops, learn about going on the street and witnessing, give your time to a church organization that has a need, pretty much anything that is real, and of good report.

Forgive me for just stepping in, but as a mother I know how important it is for young men to learn how to fight these things, and as I was praying this morning I couldn't get your post out of my mind.

Please also remember this! Sometimes we want to struggle against something that is fighting our minds, all by ourself. Yes, God is able to do anything; but He also said: "Where two or more agree as touching anything", and I think there is help in having someone more mature (perhaps your father) help you pray about some of these things as well. When one is humble, honest and willing to learn it sure opens up a great window!

In Christ,
Lor_E

Thank you mam so much for your reply, it is greatly appreciated.

I dont really have anyone to talk to about this hahahah my parents arent Christians and i dont have a Church to go to and i dont really know of any mature belivers that i can talk to, in real life.

So i just go with the flow and try to ignore this thing.

Just when the temptation comes, WOW , is it difficult.

Like when i was on the computer one time and i wasnt even thinking about this subjuct, i was looking at things of nature, because it is amazing to see some of the things in nature. And as i was looking for cool videos about nature and animals and all that stuff, i say an extremely sensual picture...and i fell...and i wasnt even tempted or even thinking about the subject, but once i saw that sensual picture, it was over, its hard to explain... you become like stupid and you dont think about what you are doing, its just like crazy.

Sorry again that i am posting this, or if this was too graphic or disgusting.

just like real life situations for young people, got to watch out on youtube.com or video.google.com, you can find some scary things hahaha. I dont mean to make this subject look like crazy hard or anything, but for me it is one of those sins that i struggle alot on, some people might not struggle with this stuff that much, but i must say a majority does.

Thanks much

I don't mean to make this subject look like crazy hard or anything, but for me it is one of those sins that i struggle a lot on, some people might not struggle with this stuff that much, but i must say a majority does.

Watered, you are not alone. Just read all these posts and you will see that most posters will identify with you, hence the concern for modesty. And it is tragic when one cannot even go to the house of the LORD and feel like the environment there does not lend itself to purity. I am convinced the Lord's return must be near because the Enemy is working overtime to trip any and all to fall. He does not care how it is accomplished, just so it gets done. I would suppose if we could get a glimpse of the horror of hell it would go a long way in helping us to resist this temptation.

And another poster raised the question about males dressing modestly....how about it men? Care to comment? If I recall, a growing number of females are also struggling with porn, so what can the males do to help them? Have any males ever felt convicted about how they dress?Actually, I feel real disguest when I see a male in ***** and I wonder what gives? What is his motivation?

ginnyrose

I dont really have anyone to talk to about this hahahah my parents arent Christians and i dont have a Church to go to and i dont really know of any mature belivers that i can talk to, in real life.

Firstly, it is not very funny, to me it is very serious.

I'm glad that you have chosen to stand among this; but I also believe that every Christian should have fellowship!

It could just be two or three others that you can pray with, study with, grow with- a Bible Study, a prayer group... something. I'm not saying that there needs to be blatent confession first rattle out of the box; but a place where Christ is sought- human struggle to human struggle leading to wonderful overcoming and answered prayer.

I would pray about God opening some doors of true Christian fellowship, and a place whether a church or a study group where you can have contact with other believers.
~~~~

Perhaps I am too simplistic, but it seems to me that there are just a few things that are ripping apart the moral fabric of Christians and churches in regards to this discussion.

Firstly I wonder that there seems to be almost no accountability within the modern churchworld.

Not only my accountability to you, but your accountability to me; in other words: the responsibility of the sister to take care with her own presentation so as to not cause someone to stumble; and the responsibility of the brother, the husband, the father, the leader, and the 'older' women to be honest in love.

My, how valuable it is when true fellowship takes place, when the glory of God is brought into the midst of Christian conversation and without our own wills pursuit: conviction, accountability, and hopes are shared! I have seen it, not often, but when I have it is truly a gift from God!

Secondly, due to the lack of probably many things within the group, there is a seeking to glorify self. Now, it is very easy to find yourself glorifying yourself, it is very human, it is very close at hand; but within the Church, the ecclesia, the Body, there should be a place for wisdom and grace to work in Godly correction.

Thirdly, in this modern era of gadgets, of intellectual stimulation of every sort without live contact to another human being, our imaginations have run amok!

It matters not whether it is thinking too highly of oneself, speaking more harshly to someone than you would in person because you have the protection of distance, remaining nuetral because no one sees you, keeping your own thoughts protected because no one can hear you speak.

All too often there is the thinking we have obtained some knowledge because we have seen it, heard it, or read it without any true living of it. Like watching someone riding a horse, training a horse, racing the horse, petting the horse: that looks easy, I can do that! When in reality we may tremble standing next to a live one!

"Casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ. And having all readiness to avenge all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled."

Excuse me if I am rambling on please, I guess in a nutshell, I feel that immodesty is a fruit of a heart that has no fear of God, no respect for the Body of Christ, and the result of too many people-who call themselves 'Christian' and churches not being representatives of a Holy and a powerful God.

Thanks for you all's patience!
In Christ,
Lori

I have been thinking about this issue: how does one live victoriously over lust. It has me thinking all day and night. What Lori wrote is right on, in my opinion. What I am going to is not to replace her suggestions but to add to.

When one evaluates temptation, what it is and [i]why[/i] it tempts us, it should inform us what is the more basic issue at work. Being able to identify this helps a lot. For example, recently something really triggered some very unpleasant responses in me and then I wondered "why does this thing bother me so?" Once I understood the basic forces at work, it was easier to deal with that issue.

Now to answer your question: how does one resist?

One can give you a list of dos and don'ts on how to live victoriously over temptation that will work - for a while, and then it is back to square one, leaving you more defeated then ever before because one will focus on methods and not on a Person. Makes a huge difference - the difference between victory and failure. So what is the solution? I suggest you focus on walking close to the LORD, so close that you really are afraid NOT to because of the damaging results that follow when you don't. Make sense? Allow me to illustrate.

When our only daughter died from a brain tumor, I was devastated. I knew if I would not stay close to the LORD I would go crazy with grief. Another story: One time I had a debilitating sin problem and victory came only when I stormed the gates of heaven for release. So, this is using personal experiences to teach one but what does the scriptures say? Consider Romans 5:20: where sin abounds, grace did much more." (When God gives us instructions on how to live, he always gives one the tools to accomplish it. Always.) The Scriptures do not give us the methods by which God will use to ensure victory, only that victory is there. The LORD may have 1000 ways to accomplish that and you do not know which or what combination he will use, but it is there.

Just go to the gates of heaven and knock, rattle that door - if you will - and persist and He will answer.

Mind if I share one more story? One time I had a client who was a cocaine addict. She wanted release from it. Now at CPC we were not trained to handle drug addicts but we had at our disposal agencies, ministries we could refer our clients to. Anyhow, this girl told me her story: She had been at a rehab, came to the LORD who had delivered her from this addiction. She walked close to the LORD and had no problem whatsoever; cocaine held no appeal for her and she was drug free. Things went along real well for her and in due time she relaxed in her walk with the LORD and soon fell into it again. This is a modern example of Luke 11:24-26: When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first."

One more observation: what makes some temptations more difficult to deal with is because most at heart are legitimate, God-given desires that the devil has perverted. This includes the desire to eat, to reproduce...Since these are God-given, God will give you the grace(ability, strength) to cope with it. Another thing that hinders victory is when we think we can do it in our own strength, that we can handle it on our own, that we do not need God very much - a little perhaps, sometimes, but not all the time...and therein is the catch. And rest assured, that comes from the pit!

Hope this helps...
ginnyrose

But when i slip into to sin, how do i come before God and ask for forgiveness? i mean this a really heinous sin, and it is really disgusting, how do i come before God? Man this really stinks because of this sin, sometimes i don even know if I'm saved, i mean how can a Christian commit such filth so many times, so often...it horrible.

Watered wrote:

But when i slip into to sin, how do i come before God and ask for forgiveness? i mean this a really heinous sin, and it is really disgusting, how do i come before God? Man this really stinks because of this sin, sometimes i don even know if I'm saved, i mean how can a Christian commit such filth so many times, so often...it horrible.

Watered, you just tell God what you told us here. He cannot help you until you hit bottom, when you feel totally helpless to help yourself. He knows exactly how vile and filthy you are: you cannot hide [i]anything[/i] from God. And he knows when you will be tempted next and your response to it. He is waiting for you to to express your absolute need for deliverance. The reason you likely have not experienced victory is because there is still some part of you that finds a measure of pleasure in it. What makes it harder is because you are dealing with things that are in its pure form God given BUT then the DEVIL came along and perverted it, enslaving you to a perversion. Since this is the case, you will have tell God all you think, feel. want. Tell him how dirty and bad you feel - EVERYTHING! This cannot be emphasized enough. God knows you inside and out - you cannot hide anything from him, so you just might as well admit it. If you enjoy your sin a tad bit, tell Him! Tell him you would like to hate it but that you don't hate it like you should and that you need his help to accomplish it. Make sense?

I prayed for you and do hope that any who have read your recent post will pray for you.

Blessings and come back and let us know how things are going for you. We care.

ginnyrose

EDIT: you may want to checkout this site:

www.purelifeministries.org

ginnyrose was right on the money!! Amen!

i mean this a really heinous sin, and it is really disgusting

Yes, all sin is hideous! It is so hideous that God sent His only Beloved Son to hang on a hideous and horrid cross to give us a way that we are no longer held as a slave to sin.

Every person who believes in God comes to a place of seeing how horrible their sins are to a Holy God, and that is a blessed gift! But as ginnyrose mentioned we MUST [b]hate[/b] that thing!!!!

We MUST come to God in ALL honesty, knowing that He sees everything..[i]but all things are naked and opened to the eyes of Him, with whom we have to do.[/i]

We MUST TRUST that what God said He would do, He will accomplish!! Yet, we MUST also do OUR part! and being honest is one of them; being relentless in our pursuit of God is another!

(I say this as a mother!:) There is a war for your soul! You have given the enemy, whether satan or your own flesh, a position to cause you destruction by things that you keep within your heart and mind. It's like giving the enemy ammo to bombard the good things that God would do in you. BUT, the battle is a good thing!!!

Because God is more than able to do abundantly more than we can ask or think. His desire is to renew our minds, to root out the enemies that seek to destroy us and take away their [b]power[/b] to cause bondage (when we feel like we can't help but sin...)

BUT, in order for that to happen, we must be fully surrendered to God. We must learn how to do things HIS way. We MUST LISTEN to what He says in His Word! We MUST pour IN LIFE where sin and death would try to dig into our lives. We must continue to RUN to Christ and ask Him to [b]wash us through and through, with His precious blood![/b]

And whenever the enemies of your mind threaten you, trying to tempt your flesh or your mind with thoughts you know do not belong to God, RUN to HIM. ...[i]bringing EVERY thought to the obedience of Christ...[/i] ASK Him for help, HE WILL NOT turn away from you. He already knows whats inside of you and desires to set you free!

This is a good message, if you have time I would listen to it![url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=4031]here[/url]

My prayers are with you, along with others who understand where you are, and know that God is able!

In Christ,
Lori

This man in the letter is struggling with Sin. You can clearly read the dissappointment in the letter when he says

I wish I could write to you and tell you I am able to walk into church without any fear of encountering the temptation to lust anymore; but I can’t.

He says this even after claiming to have repented.

This man is struggling because he is try himself and as long as he tries by himself he will fail. We could all say we have experienced trying to do it in our own strengh and failing in our walk with God. I know I have experienced it in my walk and I know you have in your walk as you said in another post.

Paul West said in the Pub Situation Post

See, when God steps in, giving things up is not a burden or struggle. You just agree with Him and the Spirit mortifies, but when you try to do it on your own, you fight and struggle and fail and binge. It's true. This is why I tell people not to listen to me, but to take everything to God in prayer and see what He says.

My heart does go out to this man it truly does but we can't hold up his life and say this is Godly because he struggles against sexual sin in his own strength and as long as he does he will fall again and again because he is still held captive. I do hope this man gets the freedom that he desires and comes to a knowledge of how God operates.

This is something that is close to my heart. It's how the church operates how we can say God did this God did that. Men who are in charge would get us to testify prematurely that we are set free because at the end of the day there promting there minisTry not Gods Kingdom. I spoke to woman recently she had been going along to the church had been prayed for and testified she had been healed and came off the medication. Two years later she is back to see the doctor and back on medication her condition has got worse as well as being upset, disallusioned and feels great shame and bitterness.

Yes God heals, yes God delivers, God sets us free but lets just step back a minute before we get taken up with emotion and claim things we have when we haven't and be in rush to claim anything to make ourselves look good.

Colin,
The Scripture still says, "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." 1Cor. 10:12. If it was applicable 2000 years ago, it still is today.

ginnyrose