Bible college

When I was first saved I looked around at the wide variety of churches in the United States and could find nothing that seemed to match the Christianity I was reading about in the bible. Nothing even came close! I looked at all these pastors and leaders and thought, what has your education and degrees bought you? A head full of knowledge and a complete lack of understanding of God's ways?

The fact is, I can find no biblical basis for bible colleges or seminaries. Zip, Zero, Nada, None. The only New Testament saint that I am aware of that had any institutional education was Paul. What was his opinion of it? Rubbish.

So what is your opinion, why is it that we persist in thinking that the ability to pass some man taught classes in theology, writing a few papers and passing some tests qualifies someone for leadership? Is this God's method or man's?

Seriously folks, what gives?

Doug

Footnote

I do not mean to call into question every pastor or leader who has gone this route. However, if you are effective in ministry it is because you are walking with God and have grown into a level of maturity in Him that enables you to lead. There is nothing wrong with a good education, only in our over emphasis/belief in the idea that education equals qualification for leadership.

I think it all depends on what you do with the education you receive. There is much to be learned in studying Greek, and Hebrew for yourself. It also helps to have a grasp of History(both Church and World) so we know why we beieve the things we do.

Of course there are many who have taken advantage of the, "I don't need no school" idea, and have taught some very bizarre doctrines, and there also have been some who have gone to high ranking Seminaries that teach heresy. So who knows.

The biggest problems I see in Bible Schools is that the Bible becomes simply a text book rather than a divine wonder, and that there is a lack of prayer or spiritual development because there is so much emphasis on homework, and paper writing.

What would be amazing to have is a place where guys could get away for six weeks or so, and really get into the Bible, and maybe a little Church History, with lots of prayer time.

Just as an example, Jim Cymbala of the Brooklyn Tabernacle in NYC never attended a seminary or bible school. His wife, Carol, leads the choir and arranges the music but cannot read nor write music, she never learned to do that. God has gifted them both with abilities to preach, teach and minister without formal training. Both have powerful ministries that are grounded in the Word of God, and inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Many denominations will not allow a pastor to be ordained to the pulpit without them having attended bible school/college. I don't think any of the apostles went to bible school ;-) - they learned from and were inspired by God the Father and Christ Jesus, and were also given boldness to preach the truth by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Mia and Bailey, Dugan Buddy & Agnes the beagles.

I understand what you are saying but, does there need to be a dichotomy between spirituality and the intellect? Must we choose between the two or can we develop them both?
Jesus said unto him, [i]Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.[/i] This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.(Mat 22:37-40).
Develop them all.

Here's a quote from Donald S. Whitney's book titled [i]A God Entranced Vision of All Things[/i], where he writes about Jonathan Edwards and spiritual disciplines...
In contrast to Edwards's example, most people seem to lean one way or the other, favoring devotion or doctrine, piety or theology. But strong piety will not excuse us from the study of theology, nor will a strong theology compensate for a lack of piety. [i]Edwards models the fact that a real understanding of the truth of God will set the heart on fire, and that the heart set on fire by God will burn with a love for learning his truth.[/i] As it was with Edwards, sometimes the things of God should appear so beautiful to our minds that we can't help but study and meditate on them and so ravish our hearts that we want to weep or sing (p. 128, emphasis mine).
In Christ,

Ron

What about studying to show yourself approved?

Jordan

John173 wrote:

The fact is, I can find no biblical basis for bible colleges or seminaries. Zip, Zero, Nada, None. The only New Testament saint that I am aware of that had any institutional education was Paul. What was his opinion of it? Rubbish.

Doug

There's also no biblical basis for denominations and other things in Christianity.

Jordan

jimdied2sin wrote:
New Testament Christianity Preacher
Baptised with fire and the Holy Spirit

Todays preacher
Baptised with a degree and a Willow Creek church plant package

Sorry, that made me laugh.

:-P

There is nothing wrong with a good education, only in our over emphasis/belief in the idea that education equals qualification for leadership.

You nailed it!!!

I’m currently in a leadership class at Bible College.

The professor says we are deceiving ourselves if we think our education qualifies us for leadership more than those without degrees.

He says most times the congregation just expects the “educated” to lead, and that it takes time to explain that you can be an educated “non-leader”

I would like to mention that at the last “meeting of the ministers” association meeting I attended there were 34 ministers present. 32 ordained and 2 licensed. Only 2 of them had a Bible College education, both of them are over 65 years of age.

The fact is, I can find no biblical basis for bible colleges or seminaries

Paul taught in the School of Tyrannaus. Bible college is simply teachers teaching. And teaching is Biblical. What's it matter where the Word of God is taught at? Sunday school isn't anywhere in the Bible. Your pastor standing before the congregation week after week isn't taught anywhere in the Bible either.

King Jimmy,

There is nothing wrong with attending a good bible college and getting grounded in the Word. The problem lies in the [i]fact[/i] that there are thousands of men preaching God's Word today that are, contrary to God's Word, leaning on [i]their own[/i] understanding. In other words, they are trusting in their education and not in the Holy Spirit's annointing, and so are their flocks. This is [i]one[/i] of the major reasons we have such dead churches.

The biblical pattern however is to get educated in the Word by studying it carefully and trusting Jesus promise that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. When men have followed this pattern they tend to be very good at what they do, which is to preach the word with power, authority and personal conviction.

Blessings to all,

Doug

PS: Great comments from everyone!

Doug that is so true!!
I have seen this first hand. It makes me so sad.
I have seen young pastors becoming so pridful and bosting in their education. WE need to see, education is good, but is only powerful with the Holy Spirit.
In his love
cahrlene

The problem lies in the fact that there are thousands of men preaching God's Word today that are, contrary to God's Word, leaning on their own understanding.

Many are doing this that have not attended college. Education is not the problem, lack of reliance on the Holy Spirit is.

The biblical pattern however is to get educated in the Word by studying it carefully and trusting Jesus promise that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth.

Timothy also had Paul to help in his education, and Paul also used materials other than scripture. Once again, education is not the problem; reliance on self in using said knowledge is.

They lack unction.

I have seen young pastors becoming so pridful and bosting in their education.

There are plenty of older ones doing this as well. The young ones have no monopoly on self reliance and pride.

It matters when a preacher ends up in debt because of his education - by the time he's got a degree in hand he's already compromised with the world because "ye cannot serve God and mammon".

Debt equals compromise?

Is this only educational debt?

What about mortgage, and transportation debt?

Are these compromises with the world too?

What constitutes "debt?"

Does it mean "owning somone?" Should we always pay for a meal before we eat it? Is it sinful if we don't pay for a meal before we eat it?

Preach Parsley,

Have you ever been witnessing to someone when they pop up with this oh so clever question, "Can God make a rock too big for Him to move?"?

I sincerely respect you, but this is what your last post sounded like. I am honestly quite surprised to find a post like this from your hand. I know I have personally done something similar to this. I had to go back and edit/remove my initial comment and apologize to the member whose post I had reacted to.

God bless you brother, I hope you take this with a grain of salt.

In Christ,

Doug

but this is what your last post sounded like

To you maybe. Not to me.

Preach parsley was directing his comment at Corey not at you TJ. The post Corey made was specifically speaking to having debt that is owed to a banker and paying interest. I found his comment to be both snide and cynical. This is the very same spirit that produces the God/rock question. I find this behavior amongst brethren to be offensive and think Corey is owed an apology.

Every one of us makes mistakes. I hope Preach is man enough to be humble and do the right thing. This type of thing is where the rubber meets the road in our Christian faith. Do we have character or not?

Such comparisons as he made are idiotic! And no, I am NOT saying he's an idiot, only that his comment was.

Am I expecting too high a level of maturity here? Are we just full of high minded words as we hide behind the anonimity of our keyboards. Do we not recognize that though we don't look each other in the eye that each of us is a fellow believer that should be shown basic respect and decency?

Distressed and disillussioned,

Doug

Preach parsley was directing his comment at Corey not at you TJ

I can read...and follow a thread. (not trying to be smart)

I found his comment to be both snide and cynical.

I did not. You expressed your opinion. I expressed mine.

I was just saying that not everyone took it the way you did.

I think he was just pointing out that there is more to debt than just the financial aspects.

He did this in the form of a question.

My 2 cents

[color=000099]Yo John173!

Don't you think your being just a touch over reactionary? To some extent I can see your point, yet it seems to me that your rant was a bit over the top. Are you not guilty of showing your brother the same disrespect you accuse him of? Seriously bro', I think you owe someone an apology as well.

Doug[/color]

[color=006600]Hey Doug my...er...conscience?

Quit buggin' me. I hate it when you're right.

John173[/color]

[color=FF9900]Preach Parley (Josh),
This is my off beat humor attemptimg to apolgize for taking you to task so vehemently. Had someone else made the comments I made I would have been just as offended by that as I was by your post. Please forgive me as I am not justified in ranting about this in the manner I did.

Sincerely,

Doug [/color]

Tonight I heard an amazing thought from a teacher named Dr. Ralph Winter, considered the foremost expert on World Missions alive today.

He was speaking about church planting in the third world and one of the things he said is, 'you know, the second a church builds a bible college their movement will die.'

You see, bible colleges according to him hand out 'leadership' to anyone who can pay for it's classes -of course the seminary or college has every intention of raising up good leaders, but this is not how God selects leaders!

Dr. Winter suggested that most of the major growing Christian movements and churches in the world today are lead, pastored and equipped by uneducated people, or men and women without a church background. This is how God has always for the most part worked. Of course there are great men of God who have come out of colleges, or have pursued higher learning, but for the most part vibrant churches are lead by vibrant people, those are people who have had experienced God personally, not necessarily the people who pay to go to bible school.

Instead of offering bible school to everyone, maybe we should open elite bible training centers that only admit people who are already proven christian leaders -kind of like the graduate or PhD level. Equip those already performing the task.

I like the concept of the DTS (Discipleship Training School) that YWAM has. While they do have classes as part of this training, the main thrust is to help believers to grow in their personal relationship with the Lord. All true leadership grows out of that personal intimate relationship to Him.

Zac Poonen pointed this out in one of the two sermons Greg recently posted as 'must listen'. To broadly paraphrase, he said that too many christians listen to teaching and read the word for the purpose of regurgitating it. This is a huge error. Zac felt convicted of this and prayed that he would only preach that which matched up to the inner workings God had done in his own life. Thus when he reads the word he is asking God to shine the light upon himself. As this occurs he can then testify to an inner working and impart life to his hearers.

Is it any wonder this brothers ministry is held in such high regard?

In His Love,

Doug

Ah! The trouble with message boards! It's so hard to express things just like you want!

I'm guessing my use of quotes is what made my post look like it came off in a wrong manner. Actually, I've came across some brothers that are very strict in certain areas and have made me think about some things, debt being one of them. The Bible does plainly speak against debt. I have no argument there, but was wondering what exactly that is. I mean, technically if you eat your food before you pay you are owning someone.

I apologize that it came off wrong. Next time I will try to look closer at my writing style. Thank you for pointing it out.

God Bless.

Have you ever been witnessing to someone when they pop up with this oh so clever question, "Can God make a rock too big for Him to move?"?

Yeah, I've ran across that before. I have a few responses to that.

1) Well, first you answer this question. What is longer? A line, which goes forever in both directions or a ray that goes forever in one direction?

2)Yes, your the hard-head that God has chose not to move. (and then I would explain to them what they must do and their personal responsibility) :-D