HAS the CRASH BEGUN?? - Andrew Strom - COMMENTS?

HAS the CRASH BEGUN??
-by Andrew Strom.

In the wake of the Stockmarket turmoil of the last two weeks, I
felt it important to comment. Two weeks ago the US stockmarket
fell 416 points in one day. Yesterday it lost another 242 points. A
lot of this is directly caused by the Housing crash that we have
been warning of for the past 8 months or so.

It is only since 9-11 that I have been watching the US economy
so closely. I remember very vividly kneeling down by my bed soon
after the towers fell on 9-11 and hearing God clearly speak to me-
"The HORNS of AMERICAN FINANCIAL POWER HAVE FALLEN."
To me this was a profound and shocking word, which I published
that same week. I felt strongly that in following years we would
see this play out before our eyes. -The unraveling of US financial
power in the earth. (I was made to understand it was like the
Titanic - which hit the iceburg but did not sink for many hours. In
a lot of ways, the sinking of that vessel was symbolic of Britain's
decline as a world power from that point on. -I know this is shocking
to contemplate regarding the US. -It certainly shocked me at the time).

After 9-11, I continued to publish occasional articles about a coming
economic crash. Meanwhile an enormous Housing bubble was
building in America.

Eight months ago we began to publish warnings about the bursting
of this Housing bubble, and the likely impact it would have -
beginning in 2007. ("WORST HOUSING SLUMP in 50 YEARS?" -
published Aug 30, 2006).

I began to refer to this coming financial judgment in my sermons,
saying that in many ways it would be God's MERCY - to shock
us out of our complacency and apathy - and to cause us to
desperately seek His face. We have allowed comfort and
materialism to turn our heads. We have become lazy - "lovers of
pleasures more than lovers of God". Only by striking this country's
great idol 'Mammon' can God cause us to cry out to Him. We
have no idea how lukewarm we have become.

If you listen to several of my sermons from last year - eg. "A CALL
to AGONIZING PRAYER" and "IS JUDGMENT COMING UPON
AMERICA?" - you will hear me speak specifically of this housing
collapse and the economic judgment that is coming upon this
land. (-Both of these are on the recent CD that we put out).

And now here we are. March 2007. The sub-prime mortage market
is in free-fall. The CDO market is infected. The Yen carry-trade is
unwinding. Housing is still sinking with no bottom in sight, and
the stockmarket has suddenly become very volatile. It is a slow-
motion train-wreck, and this is only the beginning. (-Keep your
eye on the DERIVATIVES and the HEDGE FUNDS. -These are
the "insurers" of the markets, and systemic danger lurks in their
giant shadows).

For some time I have wondered what it will take to get us REALLY
PRAYING in this nation. What calamity will need to occur? Do
we really need a full-blown crisis staring us in the face before we
will go to our knees? -Perhaps we do.

Let me state this very clearly:- This nation is at a crossroads.
-RIGHT NOW. What is at stake is an entire lost generation - and
in fact, this country's entire future. What will we do? Will we PRAY
or will we allow this slide into the abyss to continue?

These few years decide all. -I say it again:- THESE FEW YEARS
DECIDE ALL. So what is it going to be?

As you know, there are several ways in which we have been led
to facilitate MORE PRAYER in recent months. One of these
needs to change slightly in view of what is happening and the
urgency of the hour. I am talking about the PHONE PRAYER.
Up until now, Friday night was for everyone, but Wednesday
night was just for Youth and Street ministries. From tonight on,
I believe Wednesday needs to be for EVERYONE also. So please -
tell your friends that there is a free worldwide Conference Call for
prayer every Wednesday and Friday night - for ALL of us to cry
out to God for our nation. (-Details below).

And please remember too that we are holding SOLEMN
ASSEMBLIES all over the USA in the next 2 months. I don't
know if we will ever do this again. So please take the opportunity
to gather with us and cry out to God together, my friends. We
have got to PRAY MORE. Do you sense the urgency of the hour?

Here is the info for the PHONE PRAYER - for TONIGHT and
EVERY WEDNESDAY and FRIDAY. (-All are welcome):

The TIME is 9pm Eastern/ 6pm Pacific time (USA). It costs
nothing to take part.. In USA and Canada the phone number is-
1-800-399-1052 and the entry code is- "65257684". For other
countries, please see our website-
http://www.revivalschool.com

I look forward to praying with you tonight, my friends.

God bless you all,

Andrew Strom.

God is in control and may we be found in Him that our "hearts will not fail us" in that day.

Most Christians believe there hearts won't fail them in those days but why are we different. How do we know our hearts won't fail us?

Good question, Santana.

How many of us even really think about this?

.

In the light of what Andrew Strom has shared and Greg also I am giving a link to a message I received yesterday from Rick Joyner. It seems to be right in line with what was spoken here.

Two Roads to the Future.
The Morning Star
P R O P H E T I C B U L L E T I N
February 2007
I was carried into another realm where I found
myself standing at a crossroads. Close to me,
I saw the form of a person holding a dim light. As
I approached, I recognized Lady Liberty, the
Statue of Liberty, which was alive. She was
confused and disoriented. With her feet barely
moving forward, she was hesitant. Her light was
dim, and her arms drooped so that she was about
to drop the tablet she was holding loosely.
She was trying to choose one of the roads.
She had just read the sign that warned those
who came to this crossroads—that one path led
to increasing weakness and ultimate destruction,
and the other led to increasing strength and an
even more brilliant future. However, the signs
did not tell which road was which. The sign also
warned that if one stood at this crossroads
long, a choice would be forced upon them, and it
would be the wrong road. So hesitating was not
an option, but I knew the confusion and disorientation
Lady Liberty was feeling would force
the wrong road upon her.
I was compelled to encourage her so she
would regain her decisiveness, but at the
same time, I was looking for any clue that would
indicate which was the right road. As I looked, I
noticed very faint footsteps leading up to this
crossroads. As my eyes focused on them, I could
see that these were the footprints of great
nations or empires in history. They had obviously
once stood right where we were. All of these
footprints led down the same road, which I knew
was not the right one. It did not seem that any
had yet passed this point on the right road—at
least, I could not see any footprints on it.
As I looked at this road and then the other, I
could see that the wrong road did seem much
more inviting. It had warm streetlights leading
to a curve that I could not see beyond. Because
Lady Liberty’s light was so dim now, I knew this
would be tempting as she could actually drop the
heavy light to go that way.
As I looked at the other road, it looked as
difficult and uninviting as the wrong road looked
easy and inviting. It was very dark, rocky,
narrow, and climbed steeply to a crest I could
not see beyond. It would be nearly impossible to
choose this road without being in a state of great
encouragement and confidence, not the depressed
state which Lady Liberty was now in.
As I looked at her, it was obvious that her
confidence and resolve were eroding even
further. She would never choose the right road
if she did not regain her vision, confidence, and
resolve quickly. It was a hard road, and just about
the only light on it for a time would have to be
the light you carried yourself, which would make
the climb even more difficult. However, it was
the only choice that was not certain doom. I was
driven by this to try to convey to Lady Liberty
that enduring hardship was essential if she was
to live.
As I looked at Lady Liberty, I knew that she
could drop the torch at any moment. She had to
have help very fast. Without that torch, she would
have no choice but to choose the wrong road
where there was at least some light initially. I
stepped over next to her and gently, but firmly,
took her arm and started to lift it back up. As the
light was lifted back up, it was like it received
by Rick Joyner
2
more oxygen and immediately became brighter.
This was an obvious revelation to her, and her
countenance began to change slightly.
I then asked her to grip the tablet, telling her
she must not drop it. She responded as if she did
not realize that she was about to drop it, and
she gripped it. Even so, she did not yet have the
will or strength to bring it back up to her side.
However, I could tell that just taking the resolve
not to drop the tablet helped to dispel more of the
confusion. Even these seemingly small steps to
regain her resolve and purpose had a great
effect. I knew action and decisiveness were
critical to her recovery.
I began to encourage her with all that she
had done in the past just to get to this point, and
told her that her future could be even greater.
She could go further than any nation or empire
had ever gone before. As I talked, her countenance
began to brighten even more. I knew, as
well as holding her arm up, I needed to speak
to her of her future—she desperately needed
vision. There was yet hope that she would take
the right road, but there was not much time. I
felt that at any moment the wrong choice would
be forced upon her if she did not move forward
to take the right road.
Interpretation
Lady Liberty was obviously the United
States. She is at a critical crossroads, which will
determine if she has an even brighter future than
her past, or whether she will begin to weaken
and fail. She will not make the right decision or
choose the right road unless she is strengthened
and encouraged to make decisions proactively.
Vision and decisiveness are her oxygen, and
without it, she will expire. To be encouraged is
to have courage, and it is going to take courage to
take the right road and to walk on it, but it is the
only path with a future.
I felt that I represented the church in this
vision. I needed to undergird her arm, which will
be done with prayer and intercession, just as
when Aaron and Hur held up Moses’ arms while
Israel battled Amalek (see Exodus 17). I also
had to prophesy to her, encouraging her with
visions of her potential future. She had to choose
a hard and lonely road, but she had the light, the
light of liberty, which would enable her to do it.
The higher she lifted up the light of liberty, the
more brightly her path would be lit.
The depression she felt was dispelled when
she regained her resolve not to drop the tablet.
This was the mandate of God to hold to the Word
of God. This mandate had dropped lower and
lower, until she was just about to let go of it
altogether. In the vision, I only saw her grip it
enough not to drop it completely, but I knew she
had to raise it up to her side again to make it up
the steep incline she was facing if she chose the
right road.
The Bible only addresses depression one
time. God’s remedy for depression seems too
simple, but it works and is the only thing that will
work. His easy remedy cuts off depression at its
roots. That is why it is only addressed once; there
is nothing more to be said about it. This is found
in Genesis 4:6-7:
Then the Lord said to Cain,
“Why are you angry? And why has
your countenance fallen?
“If you do well, will not your
countenance be lifted up? And if you
do not do well, sin is crouching at
the door; and its desire is for you,
but you must master it.”
Of course, the Lord warned Cain of this just
before he slew his brother. Every person has
been given a conscience that tells them right from
wrong. To violate it is an open door for depression,
which leads to anger and ultimately conflict
with others. Nations that give themselves over
to evil will become angry nations, which will
lead to conflict and war. There are righteous
wars, but most are unrighteous, and are
motivated by either jealousy or anger, just as this
first conflict between brothers. Had Cain heeded
God’s warning, this would not have happened.
TWO ROADS TO THE FUTURE
I KNEW, AS WELL AS HOLDING HER
ARM UP, I NEEDED TO SPEAK TO HER
OF HER FUTURE—SHE DESPERATELY
NEEDED VISION.
3
Depression is the result of sin, which is not
doing what we know to be right. Regardless
of how much we may try to kill or disregard
our conscience, it cannot be violated without
opening ourselves to depression. The depressed,
who do not repent and turn to God, will usually
turn against Him, then others, and will turn to
anything that will give them at least temporary
relief for the depression. In our generation, drugs
have become the source of temporary relief most
people seek. Drugs can work, temporarily, but
only while opening the door wider for increased
depression, which requires more drugs. The
longer this cycle continues, the more that vision,
purpose, and resolve are confused, deluded, and
eroded. What will often fill the void are illusions
of grandeur that are out of touch with reality,
which the devil imparts to bring further humiliation
and conflict.
In contrast to this, we are told in Romans
14:17, “...the kingdom of God is not eating
and drinking, but righteousness and peace
and joy in the Holy Spirit.” The kingdom of
Satan would have you pursue this in reverse,
compelling you to seek joy with the delusion that
it will lead to peace in your life, but it will only
lead to more confusion and more depression.
True peace and true joy can only begin with
righteousness, which is doing what is right. If we
will seek to do what is right, it will lead to a peace
that the world cannot even understand, which
will lead to a joy far above anything that this
world can offer. The peace and joy of the
kingdom is not quick, but it is deep, lasting, and
based on reality.
The fact that this vision ended without a road
being chosen means that it has not yet been
determined which road she will take. The most
important thing now is to help her regain her
strength, vision, and resolve so that she will be
able to see the paths and the choices more clearly.
As she lifts the light of liberty higher, she will be
able to see further and others will also come to
the light.
Application
The United States is not the kingdom of God,
and it is not indispensable to the purposes of God.
Many believe that she has a special covenant
with God, but many do not believe she does. This
is based on the belief that, biblically, the Lord
is only obligated to keep covenants which He
initiates, and in Scripture He only has a covenant
with two nations, Israel, and the holy nation,
the church. Whether you believe America has a
special covenant with God or not is not crucial
for us to be the light and salt that we are called to
be to our country, and to want to see our nation
align itself with the purposes of God. At the very
least, America was dedicated to God by its first
colonists and the founding fathers who formed
the nation, and the things dedicated to the Lord
are holy and will be destroyed before being
allowed to be profaned.
Because America was dedicated to the Lord,
it cannot get away with what some other nations
may be able to get away with. Severe discipline
from the Lord will come upon America for things
that may not be nearly as bad as what other
nations are doing. This should be an encouragement
to us that the Lord has not given up on us,
as we are told in Hebrews 12:7-13:
It is for discipline that you endure;
God deals with you as with sons; for
what son is there whom his father
does not discipline?
But if you are without discipline,
of which all have become partakers,
then you are illegitimate children
and not sons.
Furthermore, we had earthly
fathers to discipline us, and we
respected them; shall we not much
rather be subject to the Father of
spirits, and live?
For they disciplined us for a short
time as seemed best to them, but He
disciplines us for our good, that we
may share His holiness.
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING NOW IS TO HELP
HER REGAIN HER STRENGTH, VISION, AND
RESOLVE SO THAT SHE WILL BE ABLE TO SEE THE
PATHS AND THE CHOICES MORE CLEARLY.
TWO ROADS TO THE FUTURE
4
All discipline for the moment
seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful;
yet to those who have been
trained by it, afterwards it yields the
peaceful fruit of righteousness.
Therefore, strengthen the hands
that are weak and the knees that
are feeble,
and make straight paths for your
feet, so that the limb which is lame
may not be put out of joint, but rather
be healed.
The Lord will discipline America with
increasing severity, not to condemn, but to save.
Intercession and repentance can reduce the
severity of these judgments, but reducing the
severity should not be our only goal, rather
repentance that will lift the discipline altogether.
The two paths before America are either
another Great Awakening or a great destruction.
The church is called to be both salt and light to
our nation. We must rise up with resolve to be
these. I Peter 4:17 states, “For it is time for
judgment to begin with the household of
God....” We are also told that if we judge
ourselves He will not have to judge us (see I
Corinthians 11:31). We do need to clean up the
church, but we do not have time to wait for the
church to become perfect before we can be used
or we would never be used. The church in
America is in very much the same state as the
Lady Liberty I saw. If we will rise to our
purpose and recover our resolve to stand for the
Word of God and His purposes without compromise,
we will find the strength to lift our light
higher and to help our nation lift her light higher.
The immediate, desperate need is for us to
help lift her arm with our intercession. Then we
must begin to prophesy to her about her future
as I did in this vision. America’s future really
can be far greater than her history, and she has
had a brilliant history. True prophetic purpose
will always be rooted in a basic commitment to
honor the fathers and mothers, or history. We
need to prophesy the potential future while
honoring the significant exploits and contributions
of great Americans in our history. Not all of the
history is good, but just as even the greatest
heroes of the faith in Scripture had flaws and
made mistakes, we must remember the extraordinary
exploits of all who built this nation.
We also need to honor the other nations who
were our fathers and mothers. For America, this
basically includes every other nation on earth.
We are a nation truly composed of those from all
nations. Every race and culture which has helped
to build America is worthy of honor and respect.
If America is to rise to greater heights, it will
not be by tearing down other nations, but rather
helping to lift them up.
The Great Commission is to make disciples,
not just converts, and it is to make disciples of
all nations, not just individuals. America has
been a discipled nation, and has been taught,
raised, and built on the principles of the Word of
God. That is the tablet which must not be
dropped, but raised up again to be at her side,
giving her the strength and resolve to uphold the
light she has been given—the light of liberty, to
proclaim freedom to the captives.
Freedom is essential for true worship. That
is why the Lord put the Tree of the Knowledge
of Good and Evil in the Garden. It was not to
cause them to stumble, but there could be no true
obedience unless there was the freedom to disobey.
This is why we are told in II Corinthians 3:17,
“Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where
the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”
America now has the freedom to choose which
road she will take. The church in America also
has the freedom to help her, or do nothing. If we
do nothing, we will share her fate. If we help her,
we will share in the fruit of what she can yet
accomplish to help prepare the earth for the
coming kingdom of God.
To help her we must first cast off our own
confusion and disorientation, the result of letting
the Word of God slip lower and lower, and
loosening our own grip on it. We must return to
the Scriptures, seeking first the kingdom of God
and His righteousness—the only path to true
peace and joy, which is only found in His
kingdom, His domain, where He is obeyed.
IF AMERICA IS TO RISE TO GREATER
HEIGHTS, IT WILL NOT BE BY TEARING
DOWN OTHER NATIONS, BUT RATHER
HELPING TO LIFT THEM UP.
TWO ROADS TO THE FUTURE

So, what are you gonna be? A financial annalyst or prophet? Not to sound mean, but you don't seem to be doing either very well. When you have a word to share, share it. But this Pat Robertson type forecasting you are doing is like Pat Robertson, rather embarrasing.

It seems David Wilkerson is saying the same thing. Many people on this forum respect him greatly.

KingJimmy - yes indeed - a prophet simply shares
a word or a revelation.

However, it is the job of a teacher to bring
practical insights and applications.

My aim in almost everything I write is to combine
prophetic 'word' with teacherly insight. I do this on all kinds of subjects - in preaching and in writing.

Sorry that you object to it. I personally find it
helpful to combine these two.

God bless you,

Andrew Strom.

Thanks Andrew.

God willing, my husband and I will join you in Arkansas for the solemn assembly gathering.

I think that the majority of posts here by Andrew Strom seem to take the form of:

"X Message" by Andrew Strom.
Comments?

I wasn't aware that the forum was suposed to be a repository for people to drop off their article for comment. Without particularly getting invloved in discussions themselves.

I wasn't aware that the forum was suposed to be a repository for people to drop off their article for comment. Without particularly getting invloved in discussions themselves.

It seems David Wilkerson is saying the same thing. Many people on this forum respect him greatly.

I think that predicting an economic crash is one of the easiest things in the world . Crashs happen and when they do the prophecy is vindicated.

But I could just as easily prophesy that the markets will pick up again. They do. Am I then a prophet?

I do not say this to take from those who have a genuine burden for prayer etc. But I really see no point in saying "there will be a crash" of course there will!

[EDIT: slight grammatical change]

However, it is the job of a teacher to bring
practical insights and applications.

My aim in almost everything I write is to combine
prophetic 'word' with teacherly insight. I do this on all kinds of subjects - in preaching and in writing.

I don't object to blending a prophetic and a teaching message together. But what I object to is your wild speculations. Such isn't teaching. Teaching isn't a license to speculate. If any man speak, let him speak as the oracle of God. Whether he be prophesying or teaching. Wild speculation on various economic factors and the like is far from speaking as the oracle of God.

Quote:

taco said:
I wasn't aware that the forum was suposed to be a repository for people to drop off their article for comment. Without particularly getting invloved in discussions themselves.

philologos replied:
I agree. I think this is an abuse of the forum but Andrew is not alone in this abuse.

My take:

I would disagree in measure. I have been blessed by some of Andrew's articles, as well as Greg's. I have also personally enjoyed your article Ron on the baptism's in the old testament which you shared in a post.

1) This is a web bulletin board. If people want to "share" something, even if it is in article form, I see no problem at all. Most of the time, the articles are more thorough, careful, and well thought out which I think is a good practice.

If perhaps article formats bothers you, then I would politely and respectfully say, just don't read it. If people don't want to read it, it will disappear into the backdrop. That's okay too. Let's not become too picky though.

A good reminder for the definition of Lounge at SI:
[b]The Lounge: "Talk about anything underneath the sun! Use this section to discuss and share things that really don't fit in the other sections of the forum."[/b]

2) With respect to the point that "...without particularly getting involved in the discussions themselves":

I understand this point to an extent. I would prefer those to post to engage in discussion generally speaking. At the same time, there are many people on here that ask a lot questions, debate, and even quarrel. Personally, that's not my cup of tea, and perhaps Andrew and others don't have time to answer every question. I would hope though that I could have the opportunity to share something on my heart, even if I didn't have time, or felt the need to answer everyone's questions.
I think it's okay just to share, and hopefully some are edified in Christ as I know I've been.

That may bother you or I when we ask a question and its not answered. But I think we can get over it in Christ, I hope.

Another thought: Sometimes posts go way off topic as well, and become needlessly cyclical as well as contentious. To be honest, sometimes I think its wiser not to respond to some questions. We are going to disagree, and sometimes it just better to keep are "keyboards" to ourselves :-)

in Christ,

-w7 Ps: edited once to include contextual quotes. I'm learning : )

In fact, Andrew, what your post reads like on here is a man who is looking for some props to help your prophecy stand. Because you lack authority, you are reduced to such speculation in order to support your word. Because your word lacks authority, it will not stand on its own. If the word of the Lord was truly with you, you could speak it and let it stand on its own. You would not need to defend it in the way you are doing.

The economy will indeed collapse one day. But it won't be because God told you anything about it.

So if it happens exactly as I have been saying,
that carries no authority??

BTW - I often post things on here and reply to
people's comments afterward - so to say that I
don't is completely untrue. But thanks for that...

-Andrew Strom.

.

Wow. Now I know what happens here.

Thankyou so much.

.

.

.

[b]Man guys, ya'll certainly are very disrespectful without having knowledge of that which you criticize.

You reject the message, and you reject the messenger. Will not God hold accountable and judge those who do such to his servants?

Andrew might not be as perfect as Jesus, but he does not deserve the disdain that he has been given.[/b]

I think some of you guys were pretty hard on Andrew.

Some things could of been said more lovingly. Its not like he's teaching some wayward doctrines. He is our brother and needs to be treated with more gentleness.

I don't think Andrew is a false prophet. There some things he's not perfected in, but that doesn't make him a false prophet.

Brothers, I could not help but read your listings and a few things I may have digested. Prophecy, prophet, but what about the prophets? Whom added mercy to the law, after which Christ the sinless sacrifice to keep the law after faith in Jesus Christ.

Try Jeremyah 12 Divers herdmen have broken down my vineyard, and trodden upon my portion. Of my pleasant portion, they have made a wilderness and desert. They have laid it waste: and now that it is waste, it sigheth unto me. Yea the whole land lieth waste, and no man regardeth it. The destroyers come over the heeth every way, for the sword of the LORD shall consume from the one end of the land to the other, and no flesh shall have rest. They shall sow wheat, and reap thorns. They shall take heritage in possession, but it shall do them no good. And ye shall be confounded of your own winnings, because of the great wrath of the LORD (1537 O.T)

The word of the Lord is the answer and today's 'prophets' won't recieve God's actual words, but carbon copies and extreme corruptions. We all know alot, but Christ Iesus makes a man's knowledge foolishnes, particually when he is an image of a dead man lying in the grave. "of hope and ressurection from death am I judged, for I am a Pharise, son of a Pharisee. And instantly the multitude was divided,

It would grieve my heart if Andrew no longer came on this forum and shared because of unkind comments. He is a valuable memeber of the body and should be respected as such.

[color=6600CC]Col 4:6 Let your speech [be] alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.[/color]

[color=6600CC]Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; [/color]

[color=6600CC]2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

[/color][color=6600CC]1Ti 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat [him] as a father; [and] the younger men as brethren;[/color]
[color=6600CC]1Ti 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.[/color]

Until we see this prophecy fall to the ground we have no right to judge it. It could happen tomorrow.

also there were prophecies that came other than through the men who spoke what became scripture.
One spoke of Paul being bound and the other about famine coming. I couldn't find the references or I would share them here. Also the word says not to despise prophecy, just to judge it.

[color=6600CC]1Th 5:20 Despise not prophesyings. [/color]

My personal view of the reason finacial collapse may be coming to the USA is because the church is abusing her provision. Squandering it on selfish interests rather than seeking where God would have us use it. What will we do when we are denied our precious electricty and hot showers, and God forbid that our cars not run. Most of the rest of the world don't have to worry about gasoline, they don't have cars. Every member of our family has one here. Hear me, I am speaking about the church. We have dimonds galore, ipods, manicures, bubble bath, braces for our teeth, boom boxes, zillions of books, a computer in every room, software that we never use, designer clothers, twenty pairs of shoes, I could go on and on. We will reap what we sow. If we don't sow and keep it all for ourselves, thereby allowing starvation to those Christ sends us to, we will reap financial breakdown and it will be the churches fault, including me.

So what if Andrew spoke what has been spoken before, it seems nobody is listening. Have we changed our lifestyles? Are we weeping between the porch and the altar? Are giving up our TV and computer time to seek His face? No we just like to talk about it until:

[color=6600CC]Mat 24:36 ¶ But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. [/color][color=6600CC]Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [/color][color=6600CC]Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, [/color][color=6600CC]Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [/color]

Art Katz says we need to have an eternal mindset. That is the truth. It is time to stop laying up and begin to reap the harvest with whatever resources we have available. This is why the early church had power. They were not bound by earthly things.

Until we see this prophecy fall to the ground we have no right to judge it. It could happen tomorrow.

This may seem biblical but the injunction to judge the prophecies given in the gatherings is not a judgement of the accuracy of the prediction but of something different.

The utterances given in the assembly could not be judged by their future fulfillment but by a concensus within the community of the prophets.

The problem that many modern 'prophets' produce is that their declaration that it is a 'prophecy'lifts their utterance into a different realm of authority. People then believe because 'it is a prophecy' rather than because they are discerning the nature of the utterance. Despise not prophesyings is appropriate only if we accept the utterances as prophecies in the first place.

The intimate nature of the gathering in view in 1 Corinthians are so different from the atmosphere of a public forum. It is impossible for the kind of fellowship which was to exist in a local gathering to function on a website. In my view this is why it is inappropriate for a forum to be used in this manner. The atmosphere of 1 Cor 14 plainly presupposes eye-contact (1 Cor 14:30).

I have never had any contact with Andrew or any other self-styled prophets who post on this site. Because it is impossible to monitor such proclamations I question their place on such a site. This is not a personal controversy with Andrew or with any others but simply a matter of principle.

Hi,
I don't want to offend anyone on this thread and I know its been pretty intense;I would like to agree with the section below:
[size=x-small]

It goes beyond that. "HAS THE CRASH BEGUN?" is a question that carries no prophetic authority (nevermind the all-caps).

"Thus saith the LORD" carries authority if and only if the things about which he speaks comes to pass, and at the time the LORD specifies.[/size]

I also believe America will be judged as one famous preacher said"If God doesn't judge America then he owes Sodom And Gomorah an apology!"

The thing is their is no get out clause with prophecy either your're saying something from God or your not.We can all have an educated guess about what is going to happen but a word from God is a word from God.Their is no need for any Ambiguity about it.
Prophets have to be held to account on what they predict not just in the next life but in this one also.
The consequences of wishy washy prophecy is very damaging and disheartening(this is not a comment on this thread but in General)
rgds Staff()
:-(

I post here with a great deal of trepidation -
sure that everything I write will be torn to pieces and the worst motives ascribed to me.
Indeed it appears I am regarded as so evil and twisted for simply posting this article. It certainly gives me pause. SermonIndex has always been one of my favorite sites - which I have recommended to many people in the past.

I tremble to put forward a couple of tentative thoughts about apparent misunderstandings. I am sure I will be ripped to shreds for daring to do so, but here goes...

Firstly, some people obviously think that I put forth this article as a "prophecy". No - it is not a prophecy. It is an article. I would say it contains about one paragraph that is "prophetic" in nature. Here is that paragraph-

"I remember very vividly kneeling down by my bed soon
after the towers fell on 9-11 and hearing God clearly speak to me-
"The HORNS of AMERICAN FINANCIAL POWER HAVE FALLEN."
To me this was a profound and shocking word, which I published
that same week. I felt strongly that in following years we would
see this play out before our eyes. -The unraveling of US financial
power in the earth. (I was made to understand it was like the
Titanic - which hit the iceburg but did not sink for many hours. In
a lot of ways, the sinking of that vessel was symbolic of Britain's
decline as a world power from that point on. -I know this is shocking
to contemplate regarding the US. -It certainly shocked me at the time)."

As far as I am concerned, the rest of it is an 'ARTICLE' about what is currently happening in the markets, and talking about past sermons and articles, etc. -Which is why it totally suits it's title - "HAS the CRASH BEGUN?" -The whole thing is more of a 'commentary' than any kind of prophecy - and it is simply asking this question and calling people to prayer.

I realize now that I have dared to speak up on this matter, I can expect to be subject to barbs
and abuse, but I felt the need to clarify that point.

I am wide open and awaiting the points of your
daggers, gentlemen. You can now tear into me as you see fit.

Thankyou.

-Andrew Strom.

I post here with a great deal of trepidation -

sure that everything I write will be torn to pieces and the worst motives ascribed to me. Indeed it appears I am regarded as so evil and twisted for simply posting this article. It certainly gives me pause. SermonIndex has always been one of my favorite sites - which I have recommended to many people in the past.

Please do not publically deride and accuse an individual member on sermonindex.net there is no place for this here.

[b]MUST READ: SermonIndex Forum Disclaimer / Community Rules[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=14144&forum=13&3

At the same time do hope that this is not all seen in such light or with that expectation. It can be just as troubling to hear things being cast as all conclusive, that may not have been your intention but we do tend to get a lot of "this forum" or the site in total being addressed as such when things get ... An off hand thought as a general rule for everybody;

Don't [i]make[/i] it personal and don't [i]take[/i] it personally.

Without the first the second becomes more unlikely.

Think there is some good comments made in regards to the idea of prophecy and how it does not work well in this setting ... something we have had a great deal of discussion about and with a lot of generated heat no less. I too have a very difficult time with the way it is ... presented\\defended in our day but thank you for your clarification here.

No daggers invited or needed people.

I just want to add that we all need to be careful of, using a google search as a basis for judging anybody, and especially labeling anybody. You will find anybody who has ever prophecied since the bible was written in that search.

I have found most of these sites to be negative about everything. I imagine most of our names are in there as well. It would seem the only ones who have all the wisdom and understanding is the producers of those sites. I want to know who made them the authority. Did God give them a badge that says look no further.

We need to judge each individual in the light of the word, not someones say so.

Is a word self promoting? Does it draw attention to oneself? I think of the old testament examples of "he never prophecies anything good about me". Do they speak a ear tickling word made to make you feel good, or do they speak what lines up with the word.

[color=0000CC]Eze 13:10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and [there was] no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered [morter]:[/color]

[color=0000CC]Rev 6:4 And there went out another horse [that was] red: and [power] was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.[/color]

I am certainly no prophet but I can see the pot seething all around me. People are on their last nerve. Several, including a church deacon, have committed suicide. Even the unsaved sense something looming in the not too distant future and their hearts are failing them for fear.

I was looking at the glorious beauty of spring here is Alabama this morning and musing to myself that I better be thankful for the glorious moment because they probably won't last that much longer. I sense difficulties ahead. I am not fearful because I am in Him. He will never leave me or forsake me. If someone kills me I just see His face that much sooner.

All I can say is Come Lord Jesus.

I will wrap this all up by saying Andrew I love you and KingJimmy I love you too. I love you all. I need you all. You don't know how much this wonderful forum has meant to me. It is so wonderful to connect with saints who are serious about their walk even if we don't all agree on every issue.

I don't like the article Andrew posted. While it was stating the obvious, my main problem was the capitalization of words which sort of 'disengaged' me from catching any point you were trying to make. Understand, when you put CAPS it signifies YELLING-- not a thing I like to see, especially in a "doomsday" type of article.

Thus, I judged the character and tone of the article by the caps. It is in the same vein if someone started yelling this to my face in a gathering of believers of some sort that a crash was coming.

In short: I can't stand it. If you wish to post, please don't use caps in a continual form like you did. Using it once or twice to signify something of immediate importance is okay-- but overdoing it like you did is complete "over-kill."

So, you may be somewhat dissuaded that I am judging the content of your post by such a thing as this-- if so, welcome to the Internet, where conversational rules are not that much different than in real life :)

As to the actual content-- again, it's quite "stating the obvious"-- an economic crash is something that eventually will come about, as to the magnitude-- unless you've received a "thus saith the Lord"-- no one knows.

Jordan

Good word Goldminer. Thankyou.

Sorry about the Caps, Jordamo. Bad habits die hard, I guess.

Regarding doing a "Google Search" on Christian leaders, I agree that great care is needed. It is simply dangerous to take the word of "Heresy-hunting" sites about anyone. I have seen so many falsehoods presented as "fact" about leaders. If you do a search on "David Wilkerson" or "Charles Finney", you will be amazed at how many people despise them or accuse them of all kinds of things! Imagine the field day that Wesley's critics would have had if they'd had the Internet! Wow!

Is it really fair to make up our mind that someone is a "heretic" or
whatever - just because of hearsay or gossip from some 'anti'
website? Or should we find out for ourselves what they really stand for?

Imagine the critics of Jesus himself - if they had a website about Him.
Or perhaps the apostle Paul. What would his enemies write about him?

I once called up one of these guys who has a whole web-page devoted to me. He described me as being part of the "Word of Faith mob". He also stated that- "Andrew Strom's hybrid Revival Warfare inventions are simply a kinder and gentler version of the Kansas City Seven, the Manifest Sons of God terrorist program of Bill Britton, and the Vineyard Movement. The jackboot hate and manipulation is subdued, and the tough guy mystique and other world visions are more dominant."

And he went on to say- "Strom seems to me to have dropped away the tongues frenzy of more tawdry Charismatic leaders, and divine healing and Word of Faith fantasies seem to have been morphed into newer versions of zeal. But, Strom is making more and more solid associations with the Rhema and MSOG mob be giving credibility to their insane visions."

Now, anyone who knows me and what I stand for would virtually find all of that hysterical!

I actually called this guy on the phone and explained to him very gently that I was on record from the very beginning as OPPOSING the 'Word of Faith'/ Prosperity gospel very strongly. I said I was also known for publicly renouncing the
flakiness of the 'Prophetic' movement (and in fact the movement itself), I had never even been part of the Vineyard, and I was strongly opposed to the 'Manifest Sons of God' doctrine - and had never supported it at any time.

I stated this over and over.

All he had to do was visit my site and listen to my sermons to see I was a historic Revival/ holiness guy through and through. Yet he did not change one word on his website! The lies are still there! I don't even know where he got his information. I don't think I have ever been accused of those things before by anyone - but that doesn't matter. It is not about "truth" or "fairness". I don't even know why they do it.

I guess that is an extreme example - but so many lies are out there. So I encourage people to look into things for themselves, rather than believe every rumor or innuendo about a leader. Yes - there is much deception abroad, but we don't want to be 'Pharisees' either. We are to
"judge righteous judgment".

It is pretty sad.

God bless you all.

Andrew Strom.

As for me, when I judge what the person is saying I don’t judge the outer things i.e the vocabulary and the phrases but the spirit therein. I think the whole summation of what Andrew is saying is let’s get to our knees. He wants to make everybody aware of what is going on all around (sometimes we see things but we don’t see them). So call it prophecy or speculation the purpose and his motive inside is to wake people up spiritually. (So is this motive evil? I don't think so) And if I’m not wrong he is scheduling “Solemn Assemblies” and “Fast and Prayer Programs” in Los Angeles, Sacramento and other states on the coming days. Shortly he is calling you to prayer for your country and for your walk with God.And he is saying lets pray together. Whether he is a prophet or not what harm will it do to you if you pray?! What if a stranger come and say to you-you have to pray for your walk with God and for what is befalling on your nation and you go and pray-what harm will it do to you? Leave it to God whether Andrew is a real servant of God or not for God is the only judge of his servants and paul said "who are you to judge another's servant" - restrain yourselves form what you are saying for it is better to keep silent than being judged for Christ said what we say will be judged later (and I don’t see any spiritual relevance in this)- but you go and pray for yourself and for your nation-this is the most important thing for you and for America right now!And I think this is the whole summation of what God wants you to do right now.

Your sis. Mek.

Good word Mek. How can it be wrong to do what the devil doesn't want you to do. Our country does need to fall to it's knees, hopefully it will be in prayer.

crsschk wrote:

Don't make it personal and don't take it personally.

Amen brother!

Here in Australia, we are experiencing an unprecedented economic slump. Government sources are talking things up, somewhat due to a great mining boom which is in progress, but industrially, there would appear to be much holding back on spending. My perspective comes from working in a industrial supply store, in the Northern Suburbs of Melbourne, but my information comes from comments made by tool wholesalers across Victoria.

Perhaps it is the drought, perhaps it is the fuel price increases, perhaps it is rapid increase in importing, or perhaps a combination. All I know is, everything is unpredictable, of late, and it is getting harder to make a dollar everyday. It would not surprise me if, after our next federal election, and the left wing Labour Party is elected (which us very likely), optimism will be cast to the wind, and a recession will be declared. Neither would it surprise me if we are in the middle of a revolution of some kind within the next five years.

I could seriously believe that the "crash has begun".

Hi Andrew,

Regarding doing a "Google Search" on Christian leaders, I agree that great care is needed. It is simply dangerous to take the word of "Heresy-hunting" sites about anyone. I have seen so many falsehoods presented as "fact" about leaders. If you do a search on "David Wilkerson" or "Charles Finney", you will be amazed at how many people despise them or accuse them of all kinds of things! Imagine the field day that Wesley's critics would have had if they'd had the Internet! Wow!

Good point. I have spent quite a bit of time with you Andrew and I can say wholeheartedly I believe you are a sincere man of God who wants to see revival. I wish I had more time to read through the articles you write these days, but I simply choose what seems of most interest or relevance. We don't agree on everything, but having known you I believe you long to do God's will unlike few I have ever known. Folk don't always interpret that right. And yet, we are all still learning and growing in the Lord. Just wanted to share that for what it's worth.

God Bless,

-Robert

I wish I didn't have to agree, but I do.

We will lose what we hang onto in this world. They only things we can legitimately hang on to are in the world to come.

An article like this is bound to draw sharp comments, so no surprise there. I particularly note Greg Gordon’s reaction to this article and an earlier article way back from 2003 entitled "PROPHETIC MESSAGE to the USA CHURCH" -by Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj.

That was also from Andrew Strom's mailing list. The message was similar content wise but the messenger was different. Now I don’t know if Bro. Gordon has had a change of heart or whether he took exception to the messenger who then was characterized as a “character” and a “fellow”.

As for me, I have no comments about either the message or the messenger, in this case or the earlier one.

i believe this article is right on, soon we have to be ready...

no money

no food

no work

no social security

breadlines

deceases

crime goes up

and Gods people need to be ready...... to preach the gospel

I actually called this guy on the phone and explained to him very gently that I was on record from the very beginning as OPPOSING the 'Word of Faith'/ Prosperity gospel very strongly. I said I was also known for publicly renouncing the
flakiness of the 'Prophetic' movement (and in fact the movement itself),

You seem to take this all very personaly. Your website used to contain scores of prophecies from the "prophetic movement" prophecies from joyner cain etc. Also people who could easily be seen as forerunners of the prosperity movement AA Allen etc.

You are perfectly entitled to post whatever you want on your site but its hardly fair to then think that its "hysterical" for sombody to associate you with the people you publish.

[edit: just wanted to add that I have in the past enjoyed many of Mr Strom's writings immensly. I have nothing against the man personaly at all]

[i][b]soon[/b] we have to be ready...

no money

no food

no work

no social security

breadlines

deceases[/i]

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

soon...

You wrote:

"Your website used to contain scores of prophecies from the "prophetic movement" prophecies from joyner cain etc. Also people who could easily be seen as forerunners of the prosperity movement AA Allen etc.
You are perfectly entitled to post whatever you want on your site but its hardly fair to then think that its "hysterical" for sombody to associate you with the people you publish."

REPLY:
Very rarely used to publish the odd thing years ago by those 'prophetic' guys. All links and articles were removed years ago, and I have not
published anything of theirs for years.

I basically stand for the exact opposite of what that guy was accusing me of. That is why some might find it "hysterical".

God bless,

Andrew Strom.

Your website used to contain scores of prophecies from the "prophetic movement" prophecies from joyner cain etc.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=3596&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go]Andrew Strom Renounces the Prophetic Movement & the Recent Whitedove Conference in Kansas City ...[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=3659&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go] Leaving the Prophetic Movement Pt.2 (A. Strom)[/url]

What impressed me and always does so is to even [i]hear[/i] of a reconsidering of particular 'positions', very refreshing .. also, very rare.

Do not know if you recall these;

If you look carefully though you will see that I wasn't accusing Mr Strom of being part of this movement. I was merly pointing out that it isn't outlandish for somebody to have considered him part of that movement.

Honestly speaking, If I had a site that had tons of stuff from Joyner and co. but later made a change in my opinion of these people. And sombody said "aren't you the guy that is into the prophetic movement?" Should I think them hysterical for thinking that of me? or should I say, yes I used to promote their material bu don't anymore.

I certainly wouldn't be surprised that they thought that of me.

I can see both sides in this issue.

I agree that America is becoming more and more secular and that God will not always bless America has He has in the past. America is one of the leading countries in the world in producing evil and enjoying evil. The church needs to be in prayer to God!

I can also see how a person would react to Andrew's columns the way some have. It is very easy to say that America is getting worse and worse and that we are due for a rude awakening, but that doesn't make anyone prophetic.

I pray that as brother Greg has said earlier that this thread would be less about Andrew and more about his article.

Having said that, I also feel led to say this:
Andrew, I pray that God would use you to glorify His kingdom. Also, please know that I say this in love, but I believe some of the backlash you have received is because your writings come across as overstating and exaggerating certain current events.

God Bless