these last few days, God has put it heavy on my heart about images on the things we wear. I saw someone wearing spong bob? I know that it is a kids show. BUt the show is not good for kids. It honors sins. Or even Nick Tv. or any other show. If these show have sin in them, and we really shouldn't be seeing them, then we shouldn't wear them? It seems wrong to be me. But I don't know. Why would want to wear somthing that has sin in it? It seems the small things we push by.
so My questions, are these dishonoring to God to wear?
in his love
charlene
what should we wear?
Yea... I agree with you. I dont know enough about Sponge Bob (personally I think the whole concept of a cartoon based on a sponge is kinda stupid... whatever happened to Bugs Bunny??)
I think what we idolize will come forth in our attire. Many women dress immodestly. Why? I say it is to entice. Some say no, but c'mon... why wear that if that isnt your intention? And many Christian women dont know enough to cover up in modest apparel. I'm sometimes shocked at what some women wear to church when we visit a more "traditional" church. If she's unsaved or newly saved, thats one thing. But generally speaking it's women who have been Christians for sometime.
My 10 yr old is a big fan of the Atlanta Falcons (excuse me while I go puke)... and up until the last year he looked up to Micheal Vick. I always teach my sons to be careful who you look up to. So my son has some Falcons t-shirts and a jersey... but I wouldnt allow him to have any with Vick's name on them because there was something in my spirit that told me Vick was... well, a punk. (By the way, I have Carolina Panthers jerseys and t-shirts... etc)
Lo and behold, a month or so ago Vick gets busted in Miami for allegedly atteptming to carry a water bottle with a "secret" compartment used for smuggling pot onto a plane. (By the way, the entire case has been dropped... even tho there was video surveilence evidence... just shows ya what money can do!)
My son was disappointed in him, but because I have always encouraged them NOT to look up to sports stars (unless they are boldly proclaiming the name of the Lord, which some do... like the late Reggie White), he was able to deal with it.
But I did notice that he wasnt wearing his Falcons shirts too much for a few weeks. I asked why, and he said that his friends all know he is a Christian and he didnt want someone to see the Falcons shirt and be reminded of what Vick had done instead of seeing Jesus in him (my son).
Thats one of those moments when a parent feels real proud. My son, at 10, is a budding linebacker and fullback... and yet nothing he has done on the football field has made me nearly as proud of him as I was right then.
So yes... what we wear on the outside does reflect whats going on on the inside.
Krispy
My sister,
I am glad to know that you can hear God so clearly. The small things are very important to God. And they are important in life, too.
It is very important what we wear, for it represents who we are, what we believe, even what kind of person we are.
Silly cartoon pictures are just that, silly. And the people who wear them are being silly.
But the cartoon being used, if it represents a show that teaches sinful action, it is wrong to wear the clothes that help promote the show.
Wearing clothes that are sexy means that you are advertising how available you are for sex.
A lot of young woman don't realize that being fashionable does not mean just looking cute to those guys who are looking at them. It looks cute to us, but we don't have to deal with the ugly pictures men can get in their heads when we wear the sexy, fashionable stuff.
And the guys that wear gangster stuff, well, they look as silly as the cartoon pictures do. And, frankly, how can you tell a good guy from a bad guy if they all dress like bad guys?
The best way to handle anyone dressing badly... Laugh at them! And don't hang out with them.
They may get mad, but they'll stop dressing like fools if they want you for a friend. And if their clothes are more important to them than your friendship, you can do without them.
Blessings,
And, frankly, how can you tell a good guy from a bad guy if they all dress like bad guys?
The opinion of an ex-bad guy:
I reckon if they dress like bad guys [b]they aren't good guys
Careful now... while I agree with y'all, realize that there were some really bad men in management at Enron that dressed just like your preacher.
Krispy
Careful now... while I agree with y'all, realize that there were some really bad men in management at Enron that dressed just like your preacher.
They wore khakies and a golf shirt?
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
what i like whit someone who dresses like for example a punk rocker, i can instantly know what he is all about, more or less, the dangerous thing whit a man in a suit caring a bible can easily be a devil within,
2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, "He has a demon." The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, "Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners." But wisdom is proved right by her actions.
hmmhmm wrote
what i like whit someone who dresses like for example a punk rocker, i can instantly know what he is all about, more or less, the dangerous thing whit a man in a suit caring a bible can easily be a devil within,
Hey now, I used to dress like a punk rocker, and I've followed the Lord my entire life. (In fact I still have a little bit of the punk rocker blood in me... lol...and probably always will). People knew I was a Christian instantly by my witness. I'm a kind, loving and caring person, so when people looked at me, they didn't see some dark demonic stronghold on me, they saw light and life, a man not afraid to be a witness and always have a smile. ;-)
I know what you mean, though :-D
On Dress by J.Wesley
"Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of -- wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; "But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price." 1 Pet. 3:3, 4.
1. St. Paul exhorts all those who desire to "be transformed by the renewal of their minds," and to "prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God," not to be "conformed to this world." [Rom. 12:2] Indeed this exhortation relates more directly to the wisdom of the world, which is totally opposite to his "good and acceptable and perfect will." But it likewise has a reference even to the manners and customs of the world, which naturally flow from its wisdom and spirit, and are exactly suitable thereto. And it was not beneath the wisdom of God to give us punctual directions in this respect also.
2. Some of these, particularly that in the text, descend even to the apparel of Christians. And both this text, and the parallel one of St. Paul, are as express as possible. St. Paul's words are, (1 Tim. 2:9, 10,) "I will that women adorn themselves in modest apparel; not -- with gold, or pearls, or costly array; but (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works."
3. "But is it not strange," say some, "that the all-wise Spirit of God should condescend to take notice of such trifles as these? to take notice of such insignificant trifles, things of so little moment, or rather of none at all? For what does it signify, provided we take care of the soul, what the body is covered with, whether with silk or sackcloth? What harm can there be in the wearing of gold, or silver, or precious stones, or any other of those beautiful things with which God has so amply provided us? May we not apply to this what St. Paul has observed on another occasion, that 'every creature of God is good, and nothing to be rejected?'"
4. It is certain, that many who sincerely fear God have cordially embraced this opinion. And their practice is suitable thereto: They make no scruple of conformity to the world, by putting on, as often occasion offers, either gold, or pearls, or costly apparel. And indeed they are not well pleased with those that think it their duty to reject them; the using of which they apprehend to be one branch of Christian liberty. Yea, some have gone considerably farther; even so far as to make it a point to bring those who had refrained from them for some time to make use of them again, assuring them that it was mere superstition to think there was any harm in them. Nay, farther still: A very respectable person has said, in express terms, "I do not desire that any who dress plain should be in our society." It is, therefore, certainly worth our while to consider this matter thoroughly; seriously to inquire whether there is any harm in the putting on of gold, or jewels, or costly apparel.
5. But, before we enter on the subject, let it be observed, that slovenliness is no part of religion; that neither this, nor any text of Scripture, condemns neatness of apparel. Certainly this is a duty, not a sin. "Cleanliness is, indeed, next to godliness." Agreeably to this, good Mr. Herbert advises every one that fears God: --
Let thy mind's sweetness have its operation
Upon thy person, clothes, and habitation.
And surely every one should attend to this, if he would not have the good that is in him evil spoken of.
6. Another mistake, with regard to apparel, has been common in the religious world. It has been supposed by some, that there ought to be no difference at all in the apparel of Christians. But neither these texts, nor any other in the book of God, teach any such thing, or direct that the dress of the master or the mistress should be nothing different from that of their servants. There may, undoubtedly, be a moderate difference of apparel between persons of different stations. And where the eye is single, this will easily be adjusted by the rules of Christian prudence.
7. Yea, it may be doubted, whether any part of Scripture forbids (at least I know not any) those in any nation that are invested with supreme authority, to be arrayed in gold and costly apparel; or to adorn their immediate attendants, or magistrates, or officers, with the same. It is not improbable, that our blessed Lord intended to give countenance to this custom when he said, without the least mark of censure or disapprobation, "Behold, those that wear gorgeous," splendid, "apparel are in kings' courts." (Luke 7:25.)
8. What is then the meaning of these scriptures? What is it which they forbid? They manifestly forbid ordinary Christians, those in the lower or middle ranks of life, to be adorned with gold, or pearls, or costly apparel. But why? What harm is there therein? This deserves our serious consideration. But it is highly expedient, or rather absolutely necessary, for all who would consider it to any purpose, as far as is possible to divest themselves of all prejudice, and to stand open to conviction: Is it not necessary, likewise, in the highest degree, that they should earnestly beseech the Father of Lights, that, "by his holy inspiration, they may think the things that are right, and, by his merciful guidance, perform the same?" Then they will not say, no, not in their hearts, (as I fear too many have done.) what the famous Jew said to the Christian, "Thou shalt not persuade me, though thou hast persuaded me."
9. The question is, What harm does it do, to adorn ourselves with gold, or pearls, or costly array, suppose you can afford it; that is, suppose it does not hurt or impoverish your family? The first harm it does, is, it engenders pride, and, where it is already, increases it. Whoever narrowly observes what passes in his own heart will easily discern this. Nothing is more natural than to think ourselves better because we are dressed in better clothes; and it is scarce possible for a man to wear costly apparel, without, in some measure, valuing himself upon it. One of the old Heathens was so well apprized of this, that, when he had a spite to a poor man, and had a mind to turn his head, he made him a present of a suit of fine clothes.
_Eutrapelus, cuicunque nocere voiebat,
Vestimenta dabat pretiosa._
[The following is Boscawen's translation of this quotation from Horace: --
Eutrapelus, whome'er he chose
To ruin, deck'd in costly clothes." -- EDIT.]
He could not then but imagine himself to be as much better as he was finer than his neighbour. And how many thousands, not only lords and gentlemen, in England, but honest tradesmen, argue the same way! inferring the superior value of their persons from the value of their clothes!
10. "But may not one man be as proud, though clad in sackcloth, as another is, though clad in cloth of gold?" As this argument meets us at every turn, and is supposed to be unanswerable, it will be worth while to answer it once for all, and to show the utter emptiness of it. "May not, then, one clad in sackcloth," you ask, "be as proud as he that is clad in cloth of gold?" I answer, Certainly he may: I suppose no one doubts of it. And what inference can you draw from this? Take a parallel case. One man that drinks a cup of wholesome wine, may be as sick as another that drinks poison: But does this prove that the poison has no more tendency to hurt a man than the wine? Or does it excuse any man for taking what has a natural tendency to make him sick? Now, to apply: Experience shows that fine clothes have a natural tendency to make a man sick of pride; plain clothes have not. Although it is true, you may be sick of pride in these also, yet they have no natural tendency either to cause or increase this sickness. Therefore, all that desire to be clothed with humility, abstain from that poison.
11. Secondly. The wearing gay or costly apparel naturally tends to breed and to increase vanity. By vanity I here mean, the love and desire of being admired and praised. Every one of you that is fond of dress has a witness of this in your own bosom. Whether you will confess it before man or no, you are convinced of this before God. You know in your hearts, it is with a view to be admired that you thus adorn yourselves; and that you would not be at the pains were none to see you but God and his holy angels. Now, the more you indulge this foolish desire, the more it grows upon you. You have vanity enough by nature; but by thus indulging it, you increase it a hundred-fold. O stop! Aim at pleasing God alone, and all these ornaments will drop off.
12. Thirdly. The wearing of gay and costly apparel naturally tends to beget anger, and every turbulent and uneasy passion. And it is on this very account that the Apostle places this "outward adorning" in direct opposition to the "ornament of a meek and quiet spirit." How remarkably does he add, "which is in the sight of God of great price!"
Than gold or pearls more precious far,
And brighter than the morning star.
None can easily conceive, unless himself were to make the sad experiment, the contrariety there is between the "outward adorning," and this inward "quietness of spirit." You never can thoroughly enjoy this, while you are fond of the other. It is only while you sit loose to that "outward adorning," that you can in "patience possess your soul." Then only when you have cast off your fondness for dress, will the peace of God reign in your hearts.
13. Fourthly. Gay and costly apparel directly tends to create and inflame lust. I was in doubt whether to name this brutal appetite; or, in order to spare delicate ears, to express it by some gentle circumlocution. (Like the Dean, who, some years ago, told his audience at Whitehall, "If you do not repent, you will go to a place which I have too much manners to name before this good company.") But I think it best to speak out; since the more the word shocks your ears, the more it may arm your heart. The fact is plain and undeniable; it has this effect both on the wearer and the beholder. To the former, our elegant poet, Cowley, addresses those fine lines: --
The' adorning thee with so much art
Is but a barbarous skill;
'Tis like the poisoning of a dart,
Too apt before to kill.
That is, (to express the matter in plain terms, without any colouring,) "You poison the beholder with far more of this base appetite than otherwise he would feel." Did you not know this would be the natural consequence of your elegant adorning? To push the question home, Did you not desire, did you not design it should? And yet, all the time, how did you
Set to public view
A specious face of innocence and virtue!
Meanwhile you do not yourself escape the snare which you spread for others. The dart recoils, and you are infected with the same poison with which you infected them. You kindle a flame which, at the same time, consumes both yourself and your admirers. And it is well, if it does not plunge both you and them into the flames of hell!
14. Fifthly. The wearing costly array is directly opposite to the being adorned with good works. Nothing can be more evident than this; for the more you lay out on your own apparel, the less you have left to clothe the naked, to feed the hungry, to lodge the strangers, to relieve those that are sick and in prison, and to lessen the numberless afflictions to which we are exposed in this vale of tears. And here is no room for the evasion used before: "I may be as humble in cloth of gold, as in sackcloth." If you could be as humble when you choose costly as when you choose plain apparel, (which I flatly deny,) yet you could not be as beneficent, -- as plenteous in good works. Every shilling which you save from your own apparel, you may expend in clothing the naked, and relieving the various necessities of the poor, whom ye "have always with you." Therefore, every shilling which you needlessly spend on your apparel is, in effect, stolen from God and the poor! And how many precious opportunities of doing good have you defrauded yourself of! How often have you disabled yourself from doing good by purchasing what you did not want! For what end did you buy these ornaments? To please God? No; but to please your own fancy, or to gain the admiration and applause of those that were no wiser than yourself. How much good might you have done with that money! and what an irreparable loss have you sustained by not doing it, if it be true that the day is at hand when "every man shall receive his own reward, according to his own labour!"
15. I pray consider this well. Perhaps you have not seen it in this light before. When you are laying out that money in costly apparel which you could have otherwise spared for the poor, you thereby deprive them of what God, the proprietor of all, had lodged in your hands for their use. If so, what you put upon yourself, you are, in effect, tearing from the back of the naked; as the costly and delicate food which you eat, you are snatching from the mouth of the hungry. For mercy, for pity, for Christ's sake, for the honour of his gospel, stay your hand! Do not throw this money away! Do not lay out on nothing, yea, worse than nothing, what may clothe your poor, naked, shivering fellow-creature!
16. Many years ago, when I was at Oxford, in a cold winter's day, a young maid (one of those we kept at school) called upon me. I said, "You seem half-starved. Have you nothing to cover you but that thin linen gown?" She said, "Sir, this is all I have!" I put my hand in my pocket; but found I had scarce any money left, having just paid away what I had. It immediately struck me, "Will thy Master say, `Well done, good and faithful steward?' Thou hast adorned thy walls with the money which might have screened this poor creature from the cold! O justice! O mercy! Are not these pictures the blood of this poor maid?" See thy expensive apparel in the same light; thy gown, hat, head-dress! Everything about thee which cost more than Christian duty required thee to lay out is the blood of the poor! O be wise for the time to come! Be more merciful! more faithful to God and man! more abundantly adorned (like men and women professing godliness) with good works!
17. It is true, great allowance is to be made for those who have never been warned of these things, and perhaps do not know that there is a word in the Bible which forbids costly apparel. But what is that to you? You have been warned over and over, yea, in the plainest manner possible. And what have you profited thereby? Do not you still dress like other people of the same fortune? Is not your dress as gay, as expensive as theirs who never had any such warning? as expensive as it would have been, if you had never heard a word said about it? O how will you answer this, when you and I stand together at the judgment-seat of Christ? Nay, have not many of you grown finer as fast as you have grown richer? As you increased in substance, have you not increased in dress? Witness the profusion of ribands, gauze, or linen about your heads! What have you profited then by bearing the reproach of Christ? by being called Methodists? Are you not as fashionably dressed as others of your rank that are no Methodists? Do you ask, "But may we not as well buy fashionable things as unfashionable?" I answer, Not if they give you a bold, immodest look, as those huge hats, bonnets, head-dresses do. And not if they cost more. "But I can afford it." O lay aside for ever that idle, nonsensical word! No Christian can afford to waste any part of the substance which God has entrusted him with. How long are you to stay here? May not you to-morrow, perhaps to-night, be summoned to arise and go hence, in order to give an account of this and all your talents to the Judge of quick and dead?
18. How then can it be, that, after so many warnings, you persist in the same folly? Is it not hence? There are still among you, some that neither profit themselves by all they hear, nor are willing that others should: And these, if any of you are almost persuaded to dress as Christians, reason, and rally, and laugh you out of it. O ye pretty triflers, I entreat you not to do the devil's work any longer! Whatever ye do yourselves, do not harden the hearts of others. And you that are of a better mind, avoid these tempters with all possible care; and if you come where any of them are, either beg them to be silent on the head, or quit the room.
19. Sixthly. The putting on of costly apparel is directly opposite to what the Apostle terms, "the hidden man of the heart;" that is, to the whole "image of God" wherein we were created, and which is stamped anew upon the heart of every Christian believer; -- opposite to "the mind which was in Christ Jesus," and the whole nature of inward holiness. All the time you are studying this outward adorning, the whole inward work of the Spirit stands still; or, rather, goes back, though by very gentle and almost imperceptible degrees. Instead of growing more heavenly-minded, you are more and more earthly-minded. If you once had fellowship with the Father and the Son, it now gradually declines; and you insensibly sink deeper and deeper into the spirit of the world, -- into foolish and hurtful desires, and grovelling appetites. All these evils, and a thousand more, spring from that one root -- indulging yourself in costly apparel.
20. Why then does not everyone that either loves or fears God, flee from it, as from the face of a serpent? Why are you still so conformable to the irrational, sinful customs of a frantic world? Why do you still despise the express commandment of God uttered in the plainest terms? You see the light: Why do not you follow the light of your own mind? Your conscience tells you the truth: Why do you not obey the dictates of your own conscience?
21. You answer, "Why, universal custom is against me; and I know not how to stem the mighty torrent." Not only the profane, but the religious world, run violently the other way. Look into, I do not say, the theatres, but the churches, nay, and the meetings of every denomination; (except a few old-fashioned Quakers, or the people called Moravians;) look into the congregations, in London or elsewhere, of those that are styled Gospel Ministers; look into Northampton-Chapel; yea, into the Tabernacle, or the chapel in Tottenham-Court Road; nay, look into the chapel in West-Street, or that in the City-Road; look at the very people that sit under the pulpit, or by the side of it; and are not those that can afford it, (I can hardly refrain from doing them the honour of naming their names,) as fashionably adorned, as those of the same rank in other places?
22. This is a melancholy truth. I am ashamed of it: But I know not how to help it. I call heaven and earth to witness this day, that it is not my fault! The trumpet has not "given an uncertain sound," for near fifty years last past. O God! thou knowest I have borne a clear and faithful testimony. In print, in preaching, in meeting the society, I have not shunned to declare the whole counsel of God. I am therefore clear of the blood of those that will not hear. It lies upon their own head.
23. I warn you once more, in the name, and in the presence of God, that the number of those that rebel against God is no excuse for their rebellion. He hath expressly told us, "Thou shalt not follow the multitude to do evil." It was said of a great, good man, he
Fear'd not, had Heaven decreed it, to have stood
Adverse against a world, and singly good.
Who of you desire to share in that glorious character? to stand adverse against a world? If millions condemn you, it will be enough that you are acquitted by God and your own conscience.
24. "Nay, I think," say some, "I could bear the contempt or reproach of all the world beside. I regard none but my own relations, those especially that are of my own household. My father, my mother, my brothers and sisters, (and perhaps one that is nearer than them all,) are teasing me continually." This is a trial indeed; such as very few can judge of, but those that bear it. "I have not strength to bear it." No, not of your own: Certainly you have not. But there is strength laid up for you on "One that is mighty!" His grace is sufficient for you; and he now sees your case, and is just ready to give it you. Meantime, remember his awful declaration, touching them that regard man more than God: "He that loveth father or mother, brother or sister, husband or wife, more than me, is not worthy of me."
25. But are there not some among you that did once renounce this conformity to the world, and dress, in every point, neat and plain, suitable to your profession? Why then did you not persevere therein? Why did you turn back from the good way? Did you contract an acquaintance, perhaps a friendship, with some that were still fond of dress? It is no wonder then that you was, sooner or later, moved to "measure back your steps to earth again." No less was to be expected, than that one sin would lead you on to another. It was one sin to contract a friendship with any that knew not God: For "know ye not that friendship with the world is enmity with God?" And this led you back into another, into that conformity to the world from which ye had clean escaped. But what are you to do now? Why, if you are wise, escape for your life: No delay: Look not behind you! Without loss of time, renounce the cause and the effect together! Now, to-day, before the heart is hardened by the deceitfulness of sin, cut off, at one stroke, that sinful friendship with the ungodly, and that sinful conformity to the world! Determine this day! Do not delay till to-morrow, lest you delay for ever. For God's sake, for your own soul's sake, fix your resolution now!
26. I conjure you all who have any regard for me, show me before I go hence, that I have not laboured, even in this respect, in vain, for near half a century. Let me see, before I die, a Methodist congregation, full as plain dressed as a Quaker congregation. Only be more consistent with yourselves. Let your dress be cheap as well as plain; otherwise you do but trifle with God, and me, and your own souls. I pray, let there be no costly silks among you, how grave soever they may be. Let there be no Quaker-linen, -- proverbially so called, for their exquisite fineness; no Brussels lace, no elephantine hats or bonnets, -- those scandals of female modesty. Be all of a piece, dressed from head to foot as persons professing godliness; professing to do every thing, small and great, with the single view of pleasing God.
27. Let not any of you who are rich in this world endeavour to excuse yourselves from this by talking nonsense. It is stark, staring nonsense to say, "Oh, I can afford this or that." If you have regard to common sense, let that silly word never come out of your mouth. No man living can afford to waste any part of what God has committed to his trust. None can afford to throw any part of that food and raiment into the sea, which was lodged with him on purpose to feed the hungry, and clothe the naked. And it is far worse than simple waste, to spend any part of it in gay or costly apparel. For this is no less than to turn wholesome food into deadly poison. It is giving so much money to poison both yourself and others, as far as your example spreads, with pride, vanity, anger, lust, love of the world, and a thousand "foolish and hurtful desires," which tend to "pierce them through with many sorrows." And is there no harm in all this? O God, arise and maintain thy own cause! Let not men or devils any longer put out our eyes, and lead us blindfold into the pit of destruction!
28. I beseech you, every man that is here present before God, every woman, young or old, married or single, yea, every child that knows good from evil, take this to yourself. Each of you, for one, take the Apostle's advice; at least, hinder not others from taking it. I beseech you, O ye parents, do not hinder your children from following their own convictions, even though you might think they would look prettier if they were adorned with such gewgaws as other children wear! I beseech you, O ye husbands, do not hinder your wives! You, O ye wives, do not hinder your husbands, either by word or deed, from acting just as they are persuaded in their own minds! Above all, I conjure you, ye half-Methodists, you that trim between us and the world, you that frequently, perhaps constantly, hear our preaching, but are in no farther connexion with us; yea, and all you that were once in full connexion with us, but are not so now; whatever ye do yourselves, do not say one word to hinder others from receiving and practising the advice which has been now given! Yet a little while, and we shall not need these poor coverings; for this corruptible body shall put on incorruption. Yet a few days hence, and this mortal body shall put on immortality. In the mean time, let this be our only care, "to put off the old man," -- our old nature, -- "which is corrupt," -- which is altogether evil, -- and to "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness." In particular, "put on, as the elect of God, bowels of mercies, kindness, gentleness, longsuffering." Yea, to sum up all in one word, "put on Christ;" that "when he shall appear, ye may appear with him in glory."
Hmmhmm...
Then what of Jesus' wear? Did he not wear that of what his culture wore? He didn't stand out of the crowd. He didn't wear something that made him "different from the world."
Just thought I'd throw that thought in...
While I agree to some extents of dress, I wonder if we can become a little too legalistic? Thoughts?
:-D
You know me Hmmhmm... all said in love! :-)
i know , i know what you mean brother, and to some degree i do agree, but.... OK, let me put it this way, if you where to wear clothes like a punk rocker, not saying it is evil or sin or any such thing, but if you where and an example my mother who is unsaved, you would try and witness to her, i know she would probably run away, i just think dressing in some ways are a hindrances to show people who Christ is, I'm not saying we all should ware shirts and ties, but I believe we should look "nice" and proper(is that right word?) and yes that may vary in different cultures, what is appropriate here may not be there and so on, but however we dress, it shouldn't be in a way that "scare" anyone away from Jesus
Christian
is it that we are so wrapped into the world that we don't see how we dress is wrong. I.E I wonder if stop buying all these new clothing how much we could give to the Lord's work. Maybe the world is twisted into our lives, that is small ways it slips in. What about name brand clothing?
if we see our brothers and sister wearing these things should we say something? would it be like we are agreeing with him, if say nothing.
are we not to have a higher call for hoilness?
in his love
charlene
hmmhmm wrote:
i know , i know what you mean brother, and to some degree i do agree, but.... OK, let me put it this way, if you where to wear clothes like a punk rocker, not saying it is evil or sin or any such thing, but if you where and an example my mother who is unsaved, you would try and witness to her, i know she would probably run away, i just think dressing in some ways are a hindrances to show people who Christ is, I'm not saying we all should ware shirts and ties, but I believe we should look "nice" and proper(is that right word?) and yes that may vary in different cultures, what is appropriate here may not be there and so on, but however we dress, it shouldn't be in a way that "scare" anyone away from JesusChristian
I can see your point, Hmmhmm. I guess another way we can put your example is... Would not the punk rocker run away if a suit and tie came walking up to them?
Now in saying all this, I know what someone's argument will be. They will say, "So, are you saying that a girl should dress like a prostitute to witness to the prostitute?" No, I absolutely am not saying that. :-) I'm just saying that there will always be someone scared off by the way another dresses. I've heard of punks, and even homeless people turned away from churches, because of how they look and smell. THAT is an atrocity (sp?)
charlene
as a Christian we are called out of the world, As far as my own convictions and as what my beliefs are, i think we should not be dressing like the greater part of the western culture does, I'm referring to my "MTV" generation, i believe the should be a great difference between how the world dresses and a Christian, but as Ben said, its easy to get legalistic in this matter, i don't have the discernment and wisdom to say the right words in the right spirit to someone, if they ask me what i think id give them my honest opinion, and as far as logos and marks on clothes, i saw a shirt whit scripture verses on it, i thought that was good, but other wise, i wouldn't wear that kind of clothes
I've heard of punks, and even homeless people turned away from churches, because of how they look and smell. THAT is an atrocity (sp?)
VERY good point!!!!
I can see your point, Hmmhmm. I guess another way we can put your example is... Would not the punk rocker run away if a suit and tie came walking up to them?
Now in saying all this, I know what someone's argument will be. They will say, "So, are you saying that a girl should dress like a prostitute to witness to the prostitute?" No, I absolutely am not saying that. :-) I'm just saying that there will always be someone scared off by the way another dresses. I've heard of punks, and even homeless people turned away from churches, because of how they look and smell. THAT is an atrocity (sp?)
you are right brother, i speak for myself, i judge me how i dress, ill give you my [i]opinion
Hmmhmm,
I know that we certianly agree though in that we should be a witness. You and I are in this same MTV generation, and it is VERY SAD, the things this MTV generation does and wears. I wonder what our Daddy (God) thinks of when he looks down upon this earth and sees that which goes on today.
BenBrockway wrote:
Hmmhmm,I know that we certianly agree though in that we should be a witness. You and I are in this same MTV generation, and it is VERY SAD, the things this MTV generation does and wears. I wonder what our Daddy (God) thinks of when he looks down upon this earth and sees that which goes on today.
it grieves me, cant even imagine how grieved God must be? in my country, cant see how America would be different, this whole generation is lost, desperately looking for Jesus, they just don't know it.... seeking in everything, there would be a revival.... but there is no one telling them about the savior, he who can free them from this world and its sin.. many youths don't know the difference between sex and love, i know i didn't, This entire generation is getting its morals from a Godless filthy TV that corrupts everything, ohhh how we need revival, now i say god night brothers and sisters, lets pray for an awakening, because this world in its present state makes me burdened and sad,
God help us to win souls to you, the harvest is great........... God make me a soulwinner....
hmmhmm wrote:
it grieves me, cant even imagine how grieved God must be? in my country, cant see how America would be different, this whole generation is lost, desperately looking for Jesus, they just don't know it.... seeking in everything, there would be a revival.... but there is no one telling them about the savior, he who can free them from this world and its sin.. many youths don't know the difference between sex and love, i know i didn't, This entire generation is getting its morals from a Godless filthy TV that corrupts everything, ohhh how we need revival, now i say god night brothers and sisters, lets pray for an awakening, because this world in its present state makes me burdened and sad,God help us to win souls to you, the harvest is great........... God make me a soulwinner....
AMEN! It grieves me just the same.
This dressing stuff isn't that hard to understand, but when self is in the way you become blind to the simpliest truth!
When dressing we should think modesty just like paul encourage the woman.
punk rock dressing is NOT modest. I use to be into punk scene and there is NOTHING modest about punks.
I would think modesty would be not drawing too much attention to yourself, being simple.
1 Timothy 2:8-10
8 I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting; 9 in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, 10 but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works.
Paul says dress in a way that is proper and appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
I don't believe that punk rock look is proper, and appropriate for women and men who profess to be godly.
Now I'm not saying that you have to look like a yuppie. I think alot of the way yuppie's dress is not simple either. Don't let the real clean look fool you. The clean shiny suits and jewlerys are not simple dress.
I dress in t-shirts and jeans most of the time.
Melody green has a really good article on modesty dress for girls and guys.
myfirstlove
i agree, a punkrocker dont 'look' godly, and i believe this statement from Paul Washer is true,
"if your clothing is a frame for your body its sensual and God hates it, if your clothing is a frame for your face then God is pleased whit your clothing"
but..... again, many people in suits are devils even thou they look Godly.... and its a culture thing, some clothing you find appropriate another culture find offensive...
but as for us in the west, i believe as you say in modesty, we should be modest in clothing ourselves, we don't dress to please the world, we represent Jesus Christ. So lets dress in a way that is appropriate.
modest=
G2887
κόσμιος
kosmios
Thayer Definition:
1) well arranged, seemly, modest
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G2889 (in its primary sense)
Strong's
G2887
κόσμιος
kosmios
kos'-mee-os
From G2889 (in its primary sense); orderly, that is, decorous: - of good behavior, modest.
and the word 'apparel'
G2689
καταστολή
katastolē
Thayer Definition:
1) a lowering, letting down
2) a garment let down, dress, attire
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G2687
Citing in TDNT: 7:595, 1074
and the word 'shamefacedness' from the KJV in verse 9
G127
αἰδώς
aidōs
Thayer Definition:
1) a sense of shame or honour, modesty, bashfulness, reverence, regard for others, respect
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: perhaps from G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492 (through the idea of downcast eyes)
Citing in TDNT: 1:169, 26
means to me we should dress in a way that dont offend other people, so we should not dress how we [i]feel
but we can still dress in a suit, but if we lack love to the punk rocker or treat them different because what they ware.... or a homeless person... then we are HYPOCRITES,
May I ask what my wonderful brothers and sisters think of men wearing wonmen's - and women wearing men's clothing?
On the topic, we are free in Christ. We don't have to follow the fads and trends of this world. We have nothing in common anymore! Also the world knows how we should be, and are quick to point out any 'flaw' that a Christian may have.
joyinjesus8 wrote:
May I ask what my wonderful brothers and sisters think of men wearing wonmen's - and women wearing men's clothing?On the topic, we are free in Christ. We don't have to follow the fads and trends of this world. We have nothing in common anymore! Also the world knows how we should be, and are quick to point out any 'flaw' that a Christian may have.
i know there is a verse somewhere.....(someone can help give it im grateful) that says a man that dresses in womens clothes is an abomination to the Lord, or something similar if im not mistaken
hmmhmm,
I think the scripture you are looking for is in Deut 22v5, 'A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman's garment, for all who do so are an abomination to the Lord your God.
Can I ask, what is all this 'legalism' people keep referring to?
I really don't know.
God bless.
May I ask what my wonderful brothers and sisters think of men wearing wonmen's - and women wearing men's clothing?
Hi, joyinjesus
Do you believe woman shouldn't wear jeans?
Brethren,
This is a pertinent topic, and one that the church of today is largely ignorant of. Father, deliver us from our complacency and our conformity!
As with all aspects of our life, the clothing we wear ought to be distinctive from that of the world (Rom 12:2). If the inside is changed, why can't the outside change?
Could it be that, in our desire to conform, we are really just wanting to fit in with the crowd? Are we afraid of the persecutions that may come if we reject the status quo?
The church used to dictate the culture... could it be that the culture is now dictating the church? We are called to be thermostats, not thermometers!
It is amazing how the evangelical church of today is ruled by the culture she is in. Think of this: around sixty years ago, things like homosexuality, worldy and immodest clothing, drug use and evil music were shunned by the church and the general culture alike. But, the culture has gradually changed. Did the church? Not right away... although we are beginning to see them showing up. This seems to have been the pattern for hundreds of years! Who will stem the flood? Who will stand up and call sin what it is?
Father, deliver us from our complacency!
For the record, my family and I practice modest and gender-distinctive clothing, as well as the woman's headship veiling (I Cor 11). The witnessing opportunities we have had from this are incredible! People in this day of compromise are amazed to see Christians that are willing to be distinctive to please their Lord. Can this be said of some other types of clothing? Our object in dressing this way is to obey God's clear commands and manifest an outward testimony of the inward change God has wrought in our hearts. We do NOT do it because it brings us further merit in the Lord's eyes. Oh God, keep us from that dead legalism! The Christian must be exceedingly careful to never let his salvation rest on his works... rather, we ought to have a FAITH that WORKS!
A thought to ponder on gender-specific clothing: why is it that we go beserk when we see a cross-dressing man acting like a woman, and yet it raises no ilk to see a woman going about in tight jeans and doing a man's activities? :-)
Hallelujah for Jesus!
How is representing a sports team somehow "better" than representing a style of music?
A thought to ponder on gender-specific clothing: why is it that we go beserk when we see a cross-dressing man acting like a woman, and yet it raises no ilk to see a woman going about in tight jeans and doing a man's activities?
Are you saying that women should not wear jeans at all? or just tight jeans?
Now theres a big difference from a transvestite wearing a dress to a asian man wearing a sarong or a scottish wearing a kilt.
Just like there is a big difference from a woman wearing loose pants to a lesbian wearing pants and all the boyish trimmings.
I think Krispy should invest into some NY Giants jersey's. This whole time I thought he was a good guy :-x
MyfirstLove said:
Do you believe woman shouldn't wear jeans?
I cannot speak for anyone else, but the Lord dealt with me on the clothing issue many years ago. I don't wear pants/jeans ever, don't cut my hair (no not even for split ends), no make-up or jewellry. (My biggest opponents have been the household of faith.)
NewCovWinDor
Thank you for your post. You have brought out some valid points, it seems the Church has allowed the world to creep in slowly. It is a shame to see that the younger ones really have no knowledge of this issue, and it never gets preached from 99% of pulpits.
Enid wrote:
Can I ask, what is all this 'legalism' people keep referring to?
You know Enid, people have called my way of life 'legalistic'. Quite often it's when they see something in the Word that they don't think they have to follow! (My observations from what other Christians have said to me). For myself the Lord convicted me years ago but I will stress that unless the Lord convicts a person of such things they may not understand fully. I did'nt.
Blessings
myfirstLove wrote:Do you believe woman shouldn't wear jeans?
Hi myfirstLove,
If you go back and look at the history of women wearing jeans and pants, you'll see it was birthed out of the women's lib movement.
Jordan
Didn't men wear skirts and long tunics back then too? The men certainly did not start out wearing pants.
I certainly don't wear jeans for femminism. I think a lot of woman who put on pants today do not put it on to be like the men. Surely, I have met a lot of femminist in skirts. And, if some people think that it reveals too much, what about the men wearing pants? Surely the men did not start out wearing pants. If it reveals too much for the woman then it also reveals too much for the men. Maybe we all need to wear long tunics.
I believe a woman should look like woman and men should look like men. Women in pants do not look like men, unless you are a lesbian going for the man look.
Its not the jeans that make the lesbians look like men. Its their WHOLE appearance and how they carry themselves.
Just like a sarong or a kilt does not make a man less manly or look like woman. Its the way they carry themselves and there whole appearance, if they are going for a woman look with all the women trimmings.
Yes they did wear robes - but there was a difference between the men's and the ladies.
The main thing here is for each of us to take this issue to the Lord. See what He says to you about it.
I'm so happy the Lord is the same yesterday, today and forever - He never changes, we always know what He expects of us and where we stand.
Please don't 'slam dunk' me for using this scripture speaking mainly of the hair from memory:
1 Corinthians 11:16
16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
We should'nt argue about these matters. I was just curious as to where the brethren stood on the issue.
Blessings
Hi joyinjesus,
I certainly wasn't arguing, but just conversing about the topic.
I'm not going to slam you for putting verses up, only if its going agaist the cross :) I believe I haven't slammed you on any verses that you have shared.
I am also sharing what I believe concerning modesty and dressing.
God bless, Lisa
I will certainly pray about the pants. I've never felt a conviction about wearing pants. But, then I've never thought about pants being sinful and asking the Lord about it. Pants is just so normal to me because I grew up with it.
I will definetly ask the Lord about it.
I thought the way I was living was fine too, until people started commenting on my things and how nice my house look. Those comments disturbed me so I ask the Lord If I needed to get rid of some things, if the way my house look needed some simplifying. Well, I didn't need to get rid of some things, but alot of things!
So, I will be open On what the Lord says concerning pants. God knows I've been wrong about alot of things I thought was right and have never taken it up to Him.
God bless, Lisa
Lisa,
So, I will be open On what the Lord says concerning pants. God knows I've been wrong about alot of things, I thought was right and have never taken it up to Him.
Your teachable spirit is refreshing...
Blessings,
ginnyrose
Sweet Lisa,
I was not referring to you personally with my remarks dear sister. I speak generally to anyone who may read my remarks. It’s not my style to single people out at all.
We are all at different stages of development in our walks with the Lord. Each of us have different things to overcome. My prayer is for God’s plan for each of us will be worked in our lives.
There is nothing wrong with having a nice house - even if we have old things we should look after them, because all things come from the Hand of our Father for us to use. It's just when we allow things to take a prominent place in our lives then we could be in trouble!I can see you have learned that valuable lesson dear sister.
We all grew up with many different ways and ideas, and sometimes it's not until it's mentioned that we begin to think of these things in a different light.
I love to read the posts and am happy that we can all share with each other. I love it that we can pray for each others needs. I love being a part of this wonderful forum – we are all different people. We are unique! What a blessing!
Hugs
Joy
JoyinJesus, If you knew me back then, I'm sure you would know I had a problem with overly decorating. You can just look inside my house and know that I was into house things. I do believe that its o.k. to have things too and nothing wrong with decorating your house, but mine was an embarrasement to me. The inside of my house did not look simple, but too much. Though the people all gave me compliments about my house, God used those compliments to show me my idols! Imagine compliments being use to convict you!
I wasted a lot of God's money on decorating my house! Much wasted money on things that will perish when it should of been for souls and the gospel!
Now, I feel much freedom living simple, not having any tendencies to add, but being content with what I have left.
God bless you, sis
Was someone praying for me? After telling you all that I would pray about the pants, I went to bed that night not even thinking about the pants thing and woke up with a dream. I dreamt I was wearing mens clothing and did not realize it!
Could the Lord be telling me something??? Or maybe it was just a dream?
Well, my husband was sharing with me recently that he's been feeling uneasy about me wearing pants! coincidence?
I'm asking the Lord for another sign ;-)
Love you all!
Hi myfirstlove!
If the Lord convicts you to get rid of pants could you post why the Lord doesn't want you to wear pants?
I can certainly see that a man should not pretend to be a woman wearing clothes made for woman and the other way around. However I wouldn't wear pants made for woman.
May God bless you with insight! (hopefully spelled that right) :-)
Jonathan
Hi Jonathon!
If the Lord convicts you to get rid of pants could you post why the Lord doesn't want you to wear pants?
I post earlier on this topic that I really didn't see anything wrong with wearing pants for a very long time. Maybe, because I've never been around people of real modesty in appearance and heart.
This conversation here got me thinking, if my ways were really adopted by the world and am I'm blind to it because I grew up with pants all my life? Now that I really thought about it, pants are much more revealing than a skirt or dress. Dresses does make me feel more feminine and I do look more feminine.
Maybe, the Lord was also showing me truth to the dream. I dreamt that I did not REALIZE I was in men's clothing. Is the Lord telling me that I've been wearing men's clothing and not seeing this part, that I have adopted the ways and trends of this world by wearing pants and t-shirts most of the time? Is the Lord showing me that I am wearing mens clothing? I know God speaks to me a lot in dreams. Truthfully, part of my flesh does not want to believe this because I like wearing jeans.
My eyes are just begining to be open to this. So, I'm not sure really what to tell you. I know now, that I shared the dream with my husband, he is confidence that this is a confirmation from God of what he's been feeling about me wearing pants.
God bless
Ok! Hopefully the Lord will lead you to do the right thing! :-)
Thank you for your kind reply!
May God bless you with His peace!
Jonathan
