07-07-07

I'd be interested in feedback from the readership of SI concerning this call to national repetance and crying out to God for Revival.

There will be 100,000 Christians from across the country gathered together for this convocation on 7/07/07.

http://www.TheCall.com/

Not interested. Nice use of the symbolic 7, though, I do admit, but definitely not my cup of tea. I see this as a bunch of noise and a bunch of good-intentioned prayer, but nothing more than that. I could be wrong, but this is my inclination.

Jordan

I went to the wedsite, I am sure.
There are a few things I am not sure about?
In his love
charlene

Hi chadster!

I'm not sure about The Call. I remember one of the leaders coming to speak to the college group I use to be in, encouraging us to come and pray for revival with them. The leader never mention anything about needing to turn from our wicked ways (repent).

Some of our college people went, excited about praying with others for revival, but clueless that they had to humble themselves and turn from their wicked ways, THEN God will hear and heal.

2 Chronicles 7:14
if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

There need to be a clear understanding that when we gather to pray for revival or some sort of solemn assembly that we MUST set it in our heart to turn from all wickedness (repent). We can't go there expecting God to incline His ears to us without setting in our heart to give our WHOLE heart to Him. A divided heart will not please Him.

We must understand that it is not the world that needs to be revived. It is the church!

Many people go to these prayer conf. not seeing it is them that is hindering revival. Its not the world. Its the church. They need to see it is them that are a grievance to God, it is our backsliden state that brought shame to His name. It is His people that need to cry aloud, wail , weep, humble ourselves and repent.

As catchy as an idea as this is, it simply smacks of romanticism and sentimentality more than anything.

For some reason, events like this don't interest me anymore. I don't know. I think I've grown tired of running around to different functions like that.

We need less events and more prayer meetings in churches. How many conferences has America had in the last 30 years and yet no revival? The reason is because we always need guest speakers, special music groups, and emotional hype to try and excite us to pray, but from personal experience it doesn't work. i used to always go to events, be excited for 2 weeks and then go cold again.

It all comes down to a personal intimacy with the living God, and HE HIMSELF grants the burden of the Lord to pray. We're a "personality-driven" culture and need to return to the Person of Jesus Christ.

The church in the book of Acts didn't need guest speakers and something to finally convince them to pray. They already got a word from Christ Himself to seek His face and be clothed with power from on high. Satan's causing many to stray from the simplicity of Christ

Here's an e-mail I received concerning this event, which answers the concern that this is NOT a call first to the church to repent:

"GOD IS CALLING US TO FASTING AND PRAYER--AND TO ANSWER THE CALL ON 7-07-07 IN NASHVILLE AND WHERE YOU LIVE!"

We Are In Crisis

The Church and the nation are in a crisis! In no uncertain terms, the elections of 2006 showed us that there is no clear moral foundation upon which the nation votes. In this present historic moment, the Church was paralyzed. Tens-of-thousands stayed home and could not vote as if they were drunk with disillusionment.

Only one week before the elections, a major Christian leader was exposed in immorality. Before that, a high-ranking Republican Representative was exposed. After considering these scandals, the ongoing exposures of these Christian leaders, and seeing the outcome of the elections, I felt God shouting that the Church is in danger of losing its moral authority to turn a nation.

"Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord...he who has clean hands and a pure heart," Psalm 24:3-4. The hill of Lord is the place of the throne, and the place of spiritual authority. Only those who have clean hands and a pure heart can stand on that hill and exercise that authority. He is sifting the Republican Party for its refusal to stand for moral principle and for playing political games with its constituents, who in 2004, voted on moral issues.

One of our young women in the Justice House of Prayer in Washington, D.C., had a dream on November 4, 2006, the Sunday before the elections: I was at the house on the farm and made a kind of agreement with a man who was the head of the GOP. In my dream, this GOP man broke the agreement. I went and confronted him, and he got in my face and started yelling at me. He then backed up and I pointed at him and said, "Our God is neither Republican nor Democrat, He will only honor those who are morally righteous and just." He left, slamming the door.

God has a word to say to the Republican Party: "Line up with moral issues--Marriage Amendment and Abortion--and show compassion to the poor and the oppressed--show Justice--or I will remove your lamp stand."

This is precisely what happened to the Whig party in the United States. The issue of slavery divided the party and its anti-slavery constituents formed the anti-slavery Republican Party out of which Abraham Lincoln was elected. The Whig party was no more! If the Churches vote radically PRO-life, then any political party, REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT--could be no more.

An Awakening to the Church

But the Voice of God is shouting even louder to the Church!

Revelation 2:18-23 and 26 says, "And to the angel of the Church in Thyatira write, 'These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: "I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

And I gave her time to repent of her immorality, and she did not repent. Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. I will kill her children with death, and all the Churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works."

Verse 26, "And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations" (emphasis added). It is only when the Church is found faithful in moral purity to her bridegroom, God, that she can gain spiritual authority over nations.

In a season of personal temptation, when God was searching my own heart and mind for inward toleration of Jezebel's influence, and during the time of Bill Clinton's moral failure, I received a dream from God. In this dream, a pastor I know was a high-ranking senator. He had gathered major governmental leaders together to deliver a message. Bill Clinton was in the meeting but was sleeping in bed. I was in the meeting but was clothed only in my underwear and I was lying in the same bed as Bill Clinton. The pastor's message was weak and carried no authority. Then he asked me to pray for Bill Clinton, who was still asleep. I prayed a pitiful token prayer and then suddenly threw off the covers and ran to get clothed.

I awoke from the dream in shock! The Holy Spirit spoke clearly to my heart, saying, "Neither you nor the Church of America has any power to awaken this nation or Bill Clinton because it sleeps in the same bed!"

The dream and the Scripture confirm each other. The Church cannot bind the spirit of Jezebel dominating the nation if the spirit of Jezebel binds the Church. Only to those who have overcome this spirit, the Scripture says, will be given authority over the nations.

This truth makes the present moment with fallen leaders more profound and pronounced. I am not pointing the finger at a fallen brother. I mourn for any of them and for my generation that has been assaulted with the spirit of Jezebel and lives under the shame of their bondage, which defiles imaginations and causes nightmarish inward moral battles. Maybe all our leaders who have fallen are a sign and a symbol of the whole Church of the nation. From the head to the feet we are sick, bruised, and beaten up, and we are being exposed publicly.

Hosea 2:10 says, "Now I will uncover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers..." We are like eunuchs in Jezebel's palace whimpering our prayers, and even with our great churches and powerful spiritual programs, the nation remains unchanged. More than all this, we have crushed the Lord's heart with our spiritual adultery, we have left our first Love, and have gone after our Baals as in the time of Jezebel. But I believe that God wants to allure us into the wilderness and speak tenderly to us and make this Valley of Achor (the place of exposure of hidden sin) a door of hope. "In that day...you will call Me 'My Husband,' and no longer call Me, 'My Master'" (see Hosea 2:14-16).

I believe that in this moment in time, if we respond in repentance, we could release the greatest revival of confession of sin and a cleansing by the blood of Jesus that could draw us back into marital faithfulness with our Bridegroom, God. I believe a great spiritual awakening could be at hand which could even affect the elections of 2008 and overthrow Jezebel's death-march in this nation.

God's Holy Prescription--Fasting and Prayer

What must we do? God's holy prescription for our diseased state in times of national crisis and moral collapse is in Joel 2, verses 12-13, 15-16, 18 & 28, which is a solemn assembly of untied fasting and prayer:

"Now, therefore," says the Lord, "Turn to Me with all your heart, with fasting, with weeping, and with mourning. So rend your heart, and not your garments; return to the Lord your God, for He is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness; and He relents from doing harm.

Blow the trumpet in Zion, consecrate a fast, call a sacred assembly; Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children and nursing babes; let the bridegroom go out from His chamber, and the bride from her dressing room.

Then the Lord will be zealous for His land...And it shall come to pass afterward that I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions."

Seven years ago, we called for a massive Joel 2 gathering of fasting and prayer in Washington, D.C. It was named, "The Call," and between 300,000 to 400,000 young men and women with parents and leaders gathered together...not for a feast, nor a festival, but to a fast, believing that God would respond and show mercy to our nation. Seven "Calls" took place, the final being in the Cotton Bowl in November of 2003. We believe God is still answering those prayers.

At that time, a prophet gave me a word that, "The Call" would die, but in three years, a crisis would come and then it would be resurrected. Three years have passed since that word; the time is now, and the Church and America are in crisis. God is blowing the Joel 2 trumpet again--on 07-07-07, The Call Nashville!

The Call Nashville!

In 1993, Bob Jones prophesied, "The Houston Oilers would move to Nashville, and Nashville would build God a stadium. And 100,000 people, particularly youth, would gather for a great mobilization of the army of God." With this prophecy in effect, I was praying about holding The Call in Titan Stadium in Nashville on 07-07-07.

While in a prophets gathering, I received a profound confirmation. Sharon Stone, a prophetic voice from England, who knew nothing that was on my heart, stood and began to speak forth this word over me, "There is coming a fresh recruitment on 07-07-07. I heard the day very clearly, and on that day, a stand will be taken, and it will bring forth a great shift." Could it be that The Call in Nashville is that day of recruitment and that day of shifting? Yet, I still needed more confirmation.

Then a few days later, I received a phone call from a woman I had only met one time. She said, "I have written you a check. What are you doing?" I told her about The Call Nashville, and to my amazement she said, "The check is for 100,000 dollars." She had no idea that the first Call was launched by another woman that I did not know, who gave me 100,000 dollars as well.

I experienced the Divine endorsement of God pour over me just as it did seven years before, and I knew this wasn't my Call, it was God's Call, and it was time to blow the trumpet again. If Heaven is releasing, "The Call" again, then there is still hope for America, for that is the very reason a solemn assembly is called. In times of crisis, when there is no hope and no remedy, God says, "Blow the trumpet in Zion, and call a fast."

Previous Historical Gathering

In 1967, 100,000 young people, ages 15-25, flocked to San Francisco to experience the hippie movement. This mass convergence was sparked by the hit song in San Francisco called, "Wear a Flower in Your Hair." Once there, they experimented with LSD, pot, immorality, and Eastern mysticism, in what became known as the "Summer of Love." When these newly recruited, "Flower Children," returned home at the end of summer, they brought with them new styles and ideas, flooding the cities of the U.S. and Europe with a message that opposed authority and scorned conservative morals. This counterculture rebellion was fueled by music and art, and it rapidly shifted global culture.

A great divorce from God and His ways of kindness occurred in this turbulent time, and the effects of the, "Summer of Love," are still with us today. The Church is obviously saturated with those effects.

Renewing Our Vows to The Lord

On the 40th-year anniversary of the "Summer of Love" that occurred in 1967 (really a summer of divorce), we are calling multi-generations to Nashville, Tennessee. We are calling you on 07-07-07--the number of covenant renewal, marriage, and the fullness of time--for a day of national repentance, fasting, and prayer for our 40-year generational rebellion. We are calling elders, pastors, mothers, fathers, college students, children, every race, every denomination, and every age to come and divorce Baal, and remarry the Lord.

The book of Hosea is clear--God uses wedding vows as a symbol of renewing covenant with His people. Hosea 2:19, says, "I will betroth you to Me forever, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness." We are coming to renew our vows. We will cry out to God for a release of Song of Solomon 8:6-7 (paraphrased), "Set me as a seal on your heart, as a seal on your arm, for love is as strong as death, the vehement flame of God, as unrelenting as Sheol, loves flames are fiery flames, the fiercest of all, many waters cannot extinguish love, and rivers cannot sweep it away."

Our only hope for an idolatrous people is the fiery love of God that is stronger than the passions of this world. We have got to get an awakening that is stronger than the hellish addictions of our culture. Oh God, marry us again!!!

Newspapers and websites across America are saying that on 07-07-07, more marriages are occurring then ever in history. Wedding Chapels and churches are booked across the land. But could we be in a time, a Joel 2 time, where our marriage to Jesus is of higher priority than our natural marriages? What if God would really test us on the urgency of this hour, and in particular the Biblical Joel 2 mandate? Let the Bridegroom come out of His chamber and the bride out of her dressing room (see Joel 2).

We have received the following report that a pastor said to a couple, "I cannot marry you on 07-07-07, even though the day is set. I must go to Nashville on 07-07-07--it is the highest priority." The couple was understandably upset by the decision of the pastor, but the following week a special guest speaker spoke on Joel 2 at the Church declaring, "Let the Bridegroom come out of His chamber..." With tender hearts toward God, the couple publicly asked forgiveness for their response to the pastor and said, "We are going to Nashville and will postpone our marriage."

We are receiving many reports now of couples changing their marriage dates because they have heard, The Call. I believe that pastors must make hard decisions, for it was the priests who were to weep between the porch and the altar, crying out, "Spare your people, Oh God." Also, the elders have been affected with internet immorality and compromise. We must gather and bear the reproach before the Lord. Who knows, He may turn and pour out His Spirit as promised in Joel 2:28, "And afterward I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh..."

The Number 40 is Significant

Recently while in Nashville, my friend and godly statesman, Don Finto, spoke a word to me that lit my fires of faith. He said, "I have a 1971 Time Magazine article that states three times, that the Jesus Movement began in 1967, and that Jerusalem was taken back by Israel in 1967."

After a 40-year judgment, could we be in a season in which a great spiritual awakening could occur in America, and the Jewish people would return to Yeshua? God administrates His Kingdom through prophetic time periods, and the period of 40 years is one of the most significant. When Jesus fasted 40 days, He was tempted in the wilderness just as Israel was tested in the wilderness for 40 years. Jesus confronted the temptations of satan, quoting the very Scriptures in Deuteronomy that pertained to the 40-year failure of a past generation.

In Ezekiel 4, Ezekiel is given a prophetic prayer assignment; He is told to bear the iniquity of the house of Judah for 40 days, a day for each year of their iniquity (verse 6). Here again, we see an intercessor bearing the 40-year failure of a past generation in a 40-day prayer assignment. I believe now, with all of my heart, God is calling us to fast and pray for 40 days--from May 29 to 07-07-07, and bear in intercession the 40-year failure of the 60's generation, and then gather on 07-07-07 to call on God for the promised rains of revival.

Hosea 2:16, 21-23, "'And it shall be, in that day,' says the Lord, 'that you will call Me 'My Husband,' and no longer call you my Baal.

And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will answer, I will answer the Heavens and they shall answer the earth, the earth shall answer with grain, with new wine, and with oil, and I will have mercy on her who had not obtained mercy. Then I will say to those who were not My people, you are My people, and they shall say you are my God." Let a great Jesus movement come forth in America, and out of Nashville may music come forth that will reap the harvest and carry revival more powerfully than the Beatles carried the rebellion. If the Church repents in Nashville, the culture could be transformed in San Francisco. Nashville is the gateway to the Church, and San Francisco is the gateway to the culture.

The trumpet is clear and the nation is summoned, from the pastors to the bridal chamber, and from the elders to the little children. Forty days of fasting, prayer, media turn-off, and intimacy with God--May 29th to 07-07-07 to return to the Lord. A Joel 2 solemn assembly. A day to take a stand and to shape history. May those hearts who are stirred, come and return to the Lord.

Please go to http://www.thecall.com for more information or to register now, click here.

Lou Engle
Justice House of Prayer and The Call

I looked over briefly everyone's comments.

TheCall is dedicated to praying for revival for our nation.

Intercession, intercession, and fasting is their purpose.

1 Cor. 12:21
21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you"; or again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you."

Romanticism? Hmm, I've seen the spirit of these people. They just take serious Jesus's greatest commandment.

LOVE God with ALL your HEART, Mind, soul, spirit, strength.

Love. Love. Love. That's it. They aren't defiling God's holiness, but instead loving on His nature.

Yes, some do go overboard. But some 'holiness' preachers go overboard as well. And both turn people AWAY from God. (The two extremes)

God says we should be balanced. Let's all strive for it. And also bless others in their hunger for God to move in our nation. (Keep in mind, 'blessing' is NOT quenching)

Bubba, your applying a scripture incorrectly.

These people are NOT saying, "Hey, Let's look spiritual."

They are shouting an alarm to fast and pray TOGETHER as the body of Christ.

Bubba, your coming down on your own brother and sister's in Christ.

Throughout the Old Testament. A king (godly one) would sound an alarm to NATIONAL fasting and prayer for God to restore their nation.

That's all this man is doing. Be careful when you judge people, because you WILL reap what you sow.

**edit**

You know if we were as fast to pass judgment on sin in our own lives as we are about someone calling for national prayer and intercession we would all be a whole lot more holy.

It is sad to see how most every ministry loves to solicit for money and donations. I never read of the disciples or Jesus himself doing this to do God's work.

Bubba, I mis-typed something. I just changed it.

They ARENT saying, "Hey, Let's look spiritual."

They are praying for revival.

If that's a sin, talk to God.

I suggest you read through the actions of the godly kings after an ungodly one. The godly king would proclaim a national fast to restore the nation.

Thanks Lovegrace and Goldminer for your affirmation of what Lou Engle is attempting to do...follow the Scriptural prescription for a sin sick church and nation...40 days of prayer and fasting culminating in this national convocation. I can't understand how fault can be found with this??????

Frankly, I'm stunned at the response from the SI readership. I thought this was a community that was passionate for revival???

So much of what I read on this site is about getting rid of the sham and supposedly there are people here who are crying out in repentance and contrition and seeking God for revival.

So I write about someone who is doing that in PRACTICE and not just "talking about it" with pious platitudes as we do on SI. He is a man of integrity who has dedicated his life in passionate pursuit after God and in intercession, especially for the reversal of Roe V. Wade...he is not living in oppulent wealth...(how we love to identity those in the body of Christ and shred them on this site)...but I guess we're so holy and righteous that we STILL find fault with him, and he is judged and criticized...I'm incredulous!!!

Frankly, I'm disallusioned and disenchanted with many who post on these threads. I read one message, but I haven't seen the proof of what is "written in words"...Talk is cheap!! In stead of truly crying out to God for revival in our country and asking God to cleanse and purge His church, we sit upon our judgement thrones and judge everyone and everything that doesn't match up to "our theological biases." Jesus didn't measure up to the religious elite of His day and they crucified Him.

May God have mercy on us.

Chadster, let me fill you in on their perception.

Here is an article that reflects it. "[url=http://65.108.220.179/lover.html]Jesus as Lover[/url]"

Please, take a few minutes to read it and pray about the Lord's discernment on this issue.

Chadster, a lot of people, including my self try to 'test everything and hold fast to which is good.' I do believe this event by Lou Engle is good, great, and from God. When isn't fasting and praying?

But, we must be balanced, we must pray and ACT out on our faith.

We must test all things, try to find evil, and if it passes then accept it. *(I wish there was a better way of saying this, because it doesn't fully convey what I'm trying to say.....)*

Just out of curiosity, what is it that is causing people to condemn this event? I know it's charismatic...but are we saying the Lord won't bless these people gathering in prayer and worship?

I dunno gents. I would much rather have teens wanting to 'repent, pray, and fast' even if they are fledgling in their grasp of these things...verses chasing them away with our refined understanding that has often taken ourselves decades to grow into. Okay, so they are going to have those young 'worship' bands, grungy teen musicians wearing that "Im too profound to get a job" angst on their faces and there will probably be vendors selling t-shirts and CDs in tents. And many of us have learned that these 'events' are merely passing spectacles and that the Christian life is found in the dull valleys, not the mountaintops.

Yet, on an individual level, will the Lord refuse a young heart that comes open to him?

The only reason I ask is that sometimes I fear in our desire to see purity we leave little room for dirty people to grow out of the mess they are currently in. Perhaps I am guilty of being pragmatic here, but if we will accept nothing less then that revival where, to our satisfaction, Finney arrives and breaks the back of sinners with a single stare of angry dissapointment... we may be the ones who are remain angry and dissapointed. Can we ask ourselves if these stadium events are at least a budding indication that spirit-filled Christianity still has a pulse in America?

There is a lot of junk in the Church these days. Witness the 20/20 video on the propsperity preachers. For many it is all more then enough to shrivel our hope in God. The danger is that our warm love for the Lord is quietly pushed out by cold confessional fanaticism that sufficates even prayers and songs to God, because they seem too puerile to us.

So I guess I really am just wondering if the Lord condemns this event as we do. It's a fair question...while these days call for discernment I have noticed that on some matters of discernment, followers can be more extreme then the leaders.;-)

MC

First of all this is an asumption that this isn't God inspired. God may very well have spoken to Lou Engle to do this very thing. We need to be very careful that our bias doesn't cause us bring reproach on what God has initiated. However if someone has a word from God that this isn't Him, let's hear it.

I am blessed, being involved with intercession, to see some folks who want to pray. We have trouble getting more than two people to show up for our weekly prayer meetings.

I say go for it. If God rebukes you for praying, then repent, however I don't think it is likely.

The posts regarding this event are SERIOUSLY hurting my heart. Are we so blind as to miss what is happening here? If those of you who oppose this thing (or are even NEUTRAL towards it) would take a few minutes to see what it's all about, you would see that it's AWESOME! Their slogan for the thing is "It's a fast, not a festival." Its not a bunch of kids getting together to make some stupid noise! Man that ticks me off honestly! I am 19 years old and I am going to this with a bunch of my "young unable to grasp real holiness or repentance" friends. This entire thing is about REPENTING for the REBELLION of America!

Did you know that for 40 days the youth who are attending are to fast FOOD and ENTERTAINMENT of all kinds (whether clean or not) to CONSECRATE themselves before appearing before the Lord. The entirety of it is to REPENT for our sins! I'd like to say you are MISSING GOD if you shoving this off! I am offended at how people ASSUME the youth is only into garbage festivals. I couldn't care less what your previous experiences with youth were, STOP JUDGING. WE as the youth of this nation, along with the older generation (WHOM WE NEED BY THE WAY, yes thats right, the youth NEED YOU, we need your WISDOM and your BLESSINGS, not your JUDGMENTS or CURSES) are gathering together to try and bring this nation back to JESUS. They wont even announce WHO is leading worship, or WHO will be speaking/praying, because they want people to come with hearts of FASTING and PRAYER, not seeking MEN or SHOWS! WHAT MORE could you want? I, as a youth, am going after God with everything I can get, and I honestly hope I don't grow up to be like most I see here.

I will be the first youth to admit that we NEED YOU guys (the Older Generation). But for the sake of Elijah, don't shove us away or judge us prematurely. If we need correction, bring us correcting, but do it in LOVE, don't be a jerk. Being a jerk doesn't make you holy, it just makes you a jerk. I'm not speaking about anyone specifically, I'm just saying. The move of God that HAS ALREADY begun, and this revival/harvest that is coming, WILL NOT succeed, unless us (the spiritual children of this generation) are turned towards YOU (the spiritual fathers of this generation) and VISE VERSA. WE need your SUPPORT and we NEED your BLESSINGS! PRAY FOR US AS WE GO TO NASHVILLE!

Well Lotis, a hardy amen to that. You have my prayers and I hope a whole lot more.

Follow hard after Jesus. Don't look back. By the way I am 53 and agree with what you say about the generations. We all need each other. We old folks need your youthly zeal and fire for Jesus.

Thanks and God bless you.

Lotus,

I read your post and broke down sobbing with empathy. I grieve over the lack of grace found in so many member attitudes found here. I post threads containing the message to balance our fervency with grace and they just get ignored. No one wants to face their lack of Christian love. We seem only to want to whine, complain, point fingers and argue over doctrines that won't matter a hill of beens when all is said and done.

Take heart my friend, there are people here who don't hold to this pattern of condemnation and rejection. Also, please remember that we need your grace as much as you need ours.

In closing let me simply thank you for your love and sacrifice. Your expressed heart is a breath of fresh air. We need you too.

In His Love,

Doug

Wow...what a breath of fresh air reading Compton, Lotis, Goldminer and John 173! Thank you saints of God! I was ready to give up hope that there were any out there in SI land who could look at this event with other than a critical eye and a judgemental pharasaic attitude!

Thank God, there is yet a remnant! ;-)

...this revival/harvest that is coming, WILL NOT succeed, unless us (the spiritual children of this generation) are turned towards YOU (the spiritual fathers of this generation)

Beautifully expressed Lotis.

MC

Scripturally if we have spoken words that have hurt, even if unintentionally, we should ask forgiveness of the the person we have injured.

With a great deal of empathy and yet caution ...

I'd be interested in feedback from the readership of SI concerning this call to national repetance and crying out to God for Revival.

There can be some misnomers when we are asking and discussing and applying motivations and assumptions here.

I would ask that we be careful, better, prayerful in our responses and in our assumptions. Redundantly, 'we' are the makeup of "this forum". That includes those that make comments about it's readership and members. I believe one of the fallacies here is to judge all things only by what is evident on the main page at any given moment. By design, the topics circulate out from the top down, with the bottom moving off the main page as replies come in.

What that does is to move them 'out of sight' into the forum sections and off the main viewing page. What that means is that an awful lot of content, and that which can be extremely edifying, if not challenging, if not helpful, if not God honoring, gets overlooked.

To let the cat of the bag here somewhat there is a very good reason for postings of even long duration articles from those preachers and teachers of the past ([i]whose faith follow[/i]). Made a mention of this to a brother here privately but another reason for this is the influence of, if I may, some 'eldership' to bring balance and humbling reminders to us all.

But these will not help anyone if they are but glanced at or ignored. That is as difficult to state emphatically as it is to assume in general that it is the case. And that leads into the other area that needs mentioning again. Not everything is responded to and not everything is ignored. I do as a moderator here take a bit of umbrage at slights upon the makeup of this forum because of these perceptions and yes that does include the often poor responses noted in certain replies. However, to cast everything into this light is just as poor. It really boils down to the perception and the contributions.

Please, ask more questions than stating assumptions. Dig a little deeper into the mix of the forum headings. Mix in some of the considerations of these elders presented. Ponder things. Hold ones peace. Pray. Consider others better than ones self, even ones opinion. And consider others opinions without suspicion or imagined motivations.

If we take notice often times what can happen is a forming of click's of those we agree with or those only who have answered to our preconceived ideals.

To shift gears towards the matter at hand. The original question, it did ask for feedback and while I would agree that there is warrant for better if not completely different attitudes in some instances there is a concern that shouldn't be tossed aside as irrelevant. The issue lovegrace brought up does appear to be one of those concerns if this is still a part of the thinking inherent in this ministry for a lack of a better term at the moment. Reading through the link provided at the outset and the accompanying articles it does appear to be sprinkled throughout even if somewhat subtlety. That is not accusation but appears to be something that is part and parcel even if unintentional. I do not know that it is enough to cast the whole of this gathering into disrepute, would echo the same expression;

I do believe this event by Lou Engle is good, great, and from God. When isn't fasting and praying?

Perhaps it would be to add that concern to the fasting and praying for this event.

Right on, lotis!

I think right about now, in this "Elijah Generation", just as ba'al was being released in his culture, ba'al is being released in our culture-in the media, fashion, etc. but if you really look into ba'al worship, it's everything that's being compromised in the world today-male prostitution- homosexuals make up of only 2% of America's population, and look at what an impact they are making on our nation as we speak. one idol of ba'al had his stomach cut out into a furnace, and the women who served ba'al had to feed their firstborn into ba'al's stomach-demanding the blood of the innocent as worship. Americans every day are worshipping ba'al with the blood sacrifice of the innocent in the horrific act of abortion. and finally, as an act of worship, prophets of ba'al would cut themselves, and today, cutting has been culturized into almost a fashion statement, and most young girls in our schools are controlled by this act of releasing the cry of their hearts through the blood coming out of their wrists. The worst part of it is the church has been a sub-culture of this ba'al spirit with the things Christians entertain themselves with, Christian t-shirts are just a rip off of the secular world, and even our music has been reflective of secular music. Lou Engle knows exactly what he is doing, calling a solemn assembly of fast and prayer to break the ba'al spirit that has so controlled our nation since "the summer of love", "roe v. wade", and since MTV and VH1 have begun to vomet all over the young people of America. but before we can take the head of ba'al over America, we must first get rid of the ba'al in our own lives, with the junk we put before our eyes and entertain ourselves with, etc.

and i couldn't agree more, that we must look to our forefathers for wisdom-they are the reasons for the next revival, and for birthing the salvation of my generation through prayer. i honor all of the older generation, and i owe my life to you. i'll gladly walk hand-in-hand with you, ushering in the presence of God in America.

"Forgive me for my sins, and the sins of this nation. God end abortion, and send revival to America!"

-Lou Engle-

Please, ask more questions than stating assumptions. Dig a little deeper into the mix of the forum headings. Mix in some of the considerations of these elders presented.

I appreciate this.

My questions are as much about my own intent as anyone else here. It's certainly not my intention to 'paint' SI with a broad brush...unless I'm under the stroke as well! I really did want to learn if someone knows something that Chadster and Lotis don't about the Call. It should be a simple question to answer.

Many years ago a friend of mine left the church we were attending. When I called them asking why, they said that they had a problem with the pastor and gave me only cryptic warnings like "It's great to preach grace, but you still need to live righteously."

Well I couldn't understand what they were saying and assumed that they had become too judgemental. 6 months later the whole church found out what this person already knew...the pastor had been carrying on affairs with several women and had skipped town. I was as dissapointed with this person's cryptic warning as the pastor himself.

My problem with discrete cryptic answers is that some things don't deserve to be cryptic. If something is wrong with Joe Engle or the Call then let's hear it! It's not exactly helpful to know something is up and not warn at least the appropriate people. Let's just state the facts.

I understand why some people would find the Call unsuitable to their tastes. I myself would be the first to admit that I am wary of their charismatic tones (from what I could see). But really, isn't that me just being small minded...and a bit narcissistic if my discomfort keeps me from encouraging people towards God?

This event could be a good thing in the lives of these people. Yes it won't change people permenantly if they don't continue abiding in Christ daily. But then again isn't that true of any meeting? Won't that be true of the SI conference..or even of the prayer meeting at your own church?

So my question remains...why couldn't the Call be a Holy Spirit event in many people's lives? Perhaps even the spark of revival...or is that impossible? Life is filled with exciting and wonderful reversals. Anyone watching the March Madness Basketball tournament can see this principle at work...the other team can be winning the whole game and then a three point jumper at the buzzer can throw the game our way. We think we know the ending of the game...but then we are surprised.

I guess I'm mainly wanting to gaurd myself. Occasionally there is talk in these forums about how only 2% of the Christians in this country are really born again, and how the economy is going to collapse, and how the end is coming and how it's all so hopeless.

Well I have to be honest...before I let these 'prophetic words' into my heart I want to make sure they are something more then good ole' fashioned fear and fretting. I'm not as worried about the end of the world as much as I am being surrounded by Christians who have given up. To continue with the sports metaphor... there are two kinds of people in tough times: whiners and winners. Whiners are experts on the most probable outcome because they spend all their time reading and observing. They are often the wisest of us all, as it is a pitfall of education to become pessimistic. (So says Solomon...) Winners on the other hand seem naive, and often become famously embarrassed, failing at almost everything they attempt. In the end they are the only ones that can make a difference. With three seconds on the clock and the other team ahead by two points, while the dissapointed fans are thinking about beating the parking lot traffic or mulling over their expert play by play critiques, a winner is just dumb enough, or determined enough, to take that last shot.

I'll stop here...I'm not making pointed accusations. I am only challenging the reflex assumption that if it doesn't come from our small camp then it's 'wrong.'...that's all. I remember a tme when God poured his grace out on me...and from that I desired holiness before I ever heard a holiness preacher use the word. later the instruction was useful to build me up and to affirm these things...but that style of preaching built upon the seed that was there. This is how sufficient the Holy Spirit is...he can meet us at our imperfect starting points and lead us into a more perfect place.

I have had to learn the value of listening patiently and respectfully to people in this forum and it has been a tremendous blessing to me. Now I would like to use that developed discipline to give Joe Engle a chance...maybe he and the people who show up to pray and rededicate their lives will teach us something. :-)

Blessings,

MC

In my view, and something I think many don't understand is these movements in these modern days, is that they are nothing like/near the Welsh movement etc. The Welsh revival had such an aura of holiness and awe and understanding of God imo. They weren't "up" about "revival" either-- they just wanted to seek God and repent etc.. You know they wouldn't even allow any instruments in their meetings. Too old-fashioned? Nah, they just wanted not any flesh to get in the way of them and God. Which instrumental (amplification especially) music can bring.

So, I just don't sense any Truth/Apostolic vibes from this. None at all. Is it just me? Could be! Maybe this is of God, you guys have the full right to believe that... I simply don't. I've read everything on their site and their video etc.

It thus appears in full to be a false charismatic movement precipitated upon good intentions but ultimately lacking in Apostolicity.

Of course it (TheCall) is biblical in many respects, and it may seem difficult to deny its validity thus, but being merely "biblical" is not enough if the corresponding apostolic reality is not there, which I whole-heartedly believe is the case here.

Jordan

Jordan, if you knew anything about the call and if you read Lotis's post, this IS a CALL to holiness. Lou Engle's passion is not the "romance" of the Gospel (as he's been accused of); but the call to consecration and holiness. He speaks of a generation of young people who have taken the "Nazarite" vow, who will choose to live HOLY in a world filled with lust and sin.

On another note, his son moved to San Francisco and is raising up a house of prayer in a homosexual community. He is passionate about "standing in the gap" and interceding for the salvation of these sinners whom Christ died to save; and he has consecrated his life to this calling. We can sit in our seats of judgment but how many of us are this sold out to the Lord??? What kind of man does it take to raise up a son who has this kind of heart that is so like Christ's?

Mike wrote,

Not everything is responded to and not everything is ignored. I do as a moderator here take a bit of umbrage at slights upon the makeup of this forum because of these perceptions and yes that does include the often poor responses noted in certain replies. However, to cast everything into this light is just as poor. It really boils down to the perception and the contributions.

Forgive me as well if I seemed to paint with too broad a brush. I do not take any personal offense if a thread I have started doesn't get responses. As mentioned in my first reply, the subject matter that [i]seems to be[/i] getting ignored is the topic of grace.

One thing I have observed about Christianity down through the ages is what I would term a pendulum swing. During the reformation when revivals seemed to spring up regularly, holiness preaching ran hot and heavy. This was followed by an age of legalism that cast a pall of dead religion over the American landscape. In reaction to this we have moved the pendulum to the other side and over emphasized grace, to the point that many American Christians have no fear of God and do not understand the need for repentance. Now, here at SI, I see many well intentioned brothers attempting to swing the pendulum back over to holiness.

There must be a balance between these two extremes! Too much holiness preaching can lead people to reject God because they don't believe they can possibly live up to the level of holiness postulated as necessary for true salvation to be evident. Too much grace and people can be lead to believe they're saved when they are not.

So while I do not take personal offence to non responses when I raise this issue, it does concern me. I have raised this issue in responses to threads as well as starting threads and incorporating it into threads. So far, at least that I am aware of, there has not been a single comment or response specific to the topic of grace, especially in regard to giving brethren the benefit of grace when they don't live up to the standards of holiness we have set.

I feel compelled to give out a general warning or rather caution to my brethren here to be careful not to lose the true grace of God. The word was after all used 133 times in the New Testament.

Just to clarify a bit. I am NOT refering to discussions revolving around gracious speech toward each other on this forum. This does get discussed quite frequently, as it should.

This topic feels out of place on this thread. This response is also falling short of expressing my heart in this regard, I am tired but felt a need to comment on Mike's thoughts.

In sincere love toward you all,

Doug

what I would term a pendulum swing

Thanks Doug,

I do hear you brother. Perhaps it is not stated enough and understand your concerns in that matter. Similarly, the dis-unity and oft times strife and division (gracious speech yes, but the issues of the heart) those that would be of great concern from my observance ...

Well rounded, truly [i]biblical[/i] ...

[i]But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.[/i]
James 4:6 (KJV)

It was a general statement of sorts and really had no one in particular in mind. I guess it was just more of a reminder and a recognition for those that may not be as familiar with the attempts here.

Thanks Mike,

I did recognize your comments as being somewhat general, though my first post seemed to fall into the category of what 'gave you umbrance'. :-( I hope I didn't come off [i]too[/i] defensive.

Do you have any idea where you heard brother Poonen refer to 'pendulumitis'? It sounds like a sermon I'd be interested in hearing.

Thanks,

Doug

Sometimes brethren I feel stuck in a ditch, waiting for some impossibly perfect revival preacher to come and pull us out. I want to make sure I personally am not hero worshipping or imagining history with only the best parts. I'm not saying we are...but I am considering the possibility.

jordanamo wrote:
In my view, and something I think many don't understand is these movements in these modern days, is that they are nothing like/near the Welsh movement etc. The Welsh revival had such an aura of holiness and awe and understanding of God imo.

Brother, in all humility I would ask us all to make sure that our perception of these hallowed events isn't a burden we put on each other. The Welsh revival had it's share of spiritual shortcomings. As I recall Evan Roberts ended up being quite depressed over the ultimate results. (Ironically the book he later wrote with Jessie Penn Lewis on spiritual warfare and demonic powers in the Christian life is a favorite among Charismatics!)

I am not cross or upset at all. I'm just wanting to make sure we have good reasons when we dismiss people who express a desire to repent and seek the Lord.

Blessings,

MC

I am not cross or upset at all. I'm just wanting to make sure we have good reasons when we dismiss people who express a desire to repent and seek the Lord.

I dismiss these people as I said simply from the clear and direct lack of apostolicity that I sense from them. I am not saying they aren't saved, or that they are going to hell, just that I don't sense any apostolicity from them... it's all sentimental to me.

People that express a desire to repent and seek the Lord may seem of no harm to you. You may find it hard for someone to criticize, for it's quite biblical, after all. But if it lacks the Spirit of Truth, it is not good at all. I see this as lacking that (from what I have read, and from what I've seen), and as being a breeding ground for many deceptions and delusions.

Please understand, I am in no want to argue this with anybody. But I just see delusions of many kind that can easily come about via this, and so, I just caution everyone that's going to this, to be extremely careful, for you may find yourself amidst a spirit of delusion.

Jordan

Please, Jordan, help me understand. You sense a "clear and direct lack of apostolicity" from them and so you're dismising, judging and writing off the merit of both Lou Engle and "The Call". I read Art Katz's book on Apostolic Foundations and I see Lou Engle aligning with what is apostolic: calling Christians to humble themselves and crying out to God in repentance!

And pray tell, what is "delusional" about crying out to God in repentance???!!!

I'm not wanting to be argumentative either, Jordan and I pray for a spirit of wisdom and revelation to come upon all of us...I'm just incredulous at the dogmatic and harsh posture you are taking toward this.

Hi eveyrone. I wanted to share some verses with you all. I share them for us all together and direct them at no one, so please, if you may, take them that way - for us all together.

The first I thought of the other day...

[b][color=660033]...because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.[/color][/b]

And next, this just earlier...

[b][color=660033]And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?[/color][/b]

This, with particular emphasis on [b]behold[/b]. And the phrase came to mind: [i]beams are in the eyes of the [b]beholder[/b][/i]

And then this, just now

[i]Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.[/i]

Chris