the issue of speaking in tongues

i from Ghana,in west africa. can anybody help me to get some scriptures in the Bible that give a clear cut resonse to speaking in tongues.
i want t know weather it is right that everybody can speak tongues in church as a substitute to prayer and delibrately stop when you want to.

The main teaching regarding tongues is found in 1 Cor 12-14 (inclusive)

There are also the accounts in acts of actual examples of tongues speaking. Off the top of my head there are Acts ch 2 and 10. The pehenomenan is mentioned a few other places in Acts also.

Then there is the promise given by Christ in Mark 16 that believers will speak in other tongues.

I've had people tell me that when I'm filled with the Spirit I would speak in tongues and that that was the only way I could know if I was filled with the Spirit. Is that biblical? I've just finished reading through Acts and there are times when it says that people received the Holy Spirit, but they didn't speak in tongues. Didn't Paul say not to seek speaking in tongues?

Just wondering,
Jordan

Here is a fairly clear article on the subject by Zac Poonen that I saw on his church website:
http://www.cfcindia.com/web/mainpages/articles.php?display=article07

Hi cthom,

Thanks for the article, I briefly looked at it and I'm looking forward to reading all of it. :-D

Jordan

The Eunuch did not speak in tongues because he was not filled with the Spirit...So the very idea that one receives the holy Ghost before the actual holy Ghost is fallen is foolishness.

was the Eunuch saved then if he did not have the Spirit?

What about this verse?

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

least of all,
~vico

The questions Paul asks in the passage below are rhetorical, parentheses added.

[color=000066]1 Corinthians 12:27-31 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? [/color][color=006600](NO)[/color][color=000066] Are all prophets? [/color][color=006600](NO)[/color][color=000066] Are all teachers?[/color] [color=006600](NO)[/color] [color=000066]Are all workers of miracles?[/color] [color=006600](NO)[/color][color=000066] 30 Do all have gifts of healings? [/color][color=006600](NO)[/color] [color=000066]Do all speak with tongues?[/color] [color=006600](NO)[/color] [color=000066]Do all interpret?[/color] [color=006600](NO)[/color][color=000066]31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way. [/color]

What do you think? Is speaking in tongues the only way to know if you've received the baptism in the Holy Spirit?

Two false teachings about the baptism in the Holy Spirit exist today. One is that without evidence of tongues you haven't been baptised. The second is that the gifts of the Spirit (including tongues) were dispensed only during the apostolic age and are no longer in effect. Or worse yet, that someone who speaks in tongues today can only do so if demonically possessed! My wife encountered the first one and I encountered the second.

Whatever happened to consulting the Word of God?

In Christ,

Doug

:-) what a great article on the subject of tongues,
it has always been a struggle for me to get a hold of the truth on that subject there are so many kooks out there that use tongues as launching pad for so many ridiculous claims.

as it should always be keep your gazed fixed on Jesus and let the spirit fill you as he see's fit
thanks so much
jeff

Suord wrote:
i from Ghana,in west africa. can anybody help me to get some scriptures in the Bible that give a clear cut resonse to speaking in tongues.
i want t know weather it is right that everybody can speak tongues in church as a substitute to prayer and delibrately stop when you want to.

[b]Romans 8:26[/b] [color=990000]Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with [b]groanings which cannot be uttered.[/b][/color]
I've noticed there seem to be some confusion with this verse.
I will show you the best examples of this

[b]Mark 8:12[/b] [color=990000]And he [b]sighed deeply in his spirit,[/b] and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.[/color]
[b]Mark 7:34[/b] [color=990000]And looking up to heaven, [b]he sighed,[/b] and saith unto him, Ephphatha, that is, Be opened.
[b]John 11:33[/b] [color=990000]When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he [b]groaned in the spirit,[/b] and was troubled,[/color]

He did not speek in toungues.

Toungue is no diferent that any other Gift of the Spirit, you can not have it from your own volition.
In other words, one can not choose to speek in toungues.
The Gift must come upon you.

Think of it this way:
As one prays, it is like when one fills his cup fuller and fuller with cold water.
As one can not get any fuller "in the spirit" God comes and drops an ice cube in and then you over flow.

However, one may groan at any time they feal troubled in there spirit.

"In every instance that the holy Ghost was imparted, they all spoke in tongues. The Eunuch did not speak in tongues because he was not filled with the Spirit, only that he was baptized in water in the name of Jesus at the hand of Philip. Philip was in Samaria previous to his meeting with the Eunuch, and signs and miracles were given at the hand of Philip, but he had no authority to impart the holy Ghost to any of those persons. When Peter and John heard that Samaria received the word of God, they went to Samaria that they might lay hands on them that they might receive the holy Ghost, for He had not yet fallen on none of them, only they were baptized in the name of Jesus."

But the apostles then laid hands on them and the Bible says they received the Holy Ghost, but it doesn't say they spoke in tongues.

Jordan

This shows that the gift of tongues is intended as a sign not to those who believe but to unbelievers, but prophecy is intended not for unbelievers but for those who believe.

Let's look at the first recorded use of "tongues" in the Book of Acts:

Acts 2:1-11
2:1 And when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent, rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

5 Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men, from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were bewildered, because they were each one hearing them speak in his own language. 7 And they were amazed and marveled, saying, "Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 "And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? 9 "Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs — we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God. "
NASB

The Greek word for "tongues" used here in Acts 2:3 is diamerizómenai gloóssai. In English it means "distributed languages". This is the key. There were 16 languages being spoken and HEARD and that was the miracle. This was an historical event that was taking place. The disciples were preaching and over 16 languages were being heard AT THE SAME TIME. The greek word "gloóssai" means language, and a language that can be understood by those hearing it.

For centuries this debate on tongues has taken place. Paul addresses it in I Corinthians 14, as it was an issue even in the early Church. We can only interpret this Greek word one way, "language". The gift of "tongues' is actually the gift of "languages". Who needs this gift today? Any missionary on the mission field who cannot speak the language of the people God has called them to minister to. But has anyone ever heard of this actually happening on the mission field as it did on the Day of Pentecost? No, because we have been practicing humanistic Christianity and only seek that which makes us happy, that which makes us feel important, that which makes us FEEL good inside. (Listen to [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=282]"Ten Shekels and a Shirt"[/url])

Each time we see the word "tongues" used in the New Testament, 26 times, it is the same Greek word. This word cannot mean one thing in one verse and something else in another. Only one time in the New Testament is there a different word used that is interpreted as "tongues" in English: I Corinthians 14:21 where Paul quotes Isaiah 28:11 and the Hebrew word is translated into the Greek "heterogloóssois" which literally means "othertongued, i.e. a foreigner. In Acts 2:6 the Greek word "dialektos" is used which literally means "dialect" or a "mode of discourse". Again, another reference to an actual spoken language. The focus here is not on the "tongues", but rather the fact that the Gospel was heard by many in their own language and over 2,000 people were saved that day through the power of the Holy Spirit.

In the Law it is written, "By men of strange "languages" and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people, and even so they will not listen to Me," says the Lord.

So, after having studied this topic and I Corinthians 14 for some 30 plus years, I can draw no other conclusion than this:

The gift of "languages" is still needed today, it is still given today by the Holy Spirit when He wills, for the furtherance of His Gospel and this other "gift" that is talked about so much, that creates so much "chaos" in the Church today, is nothing more than Satan's attempt to tear the Church apart, to get the Church to disagree on yet another important "point" of doctrine. Doctrine that was created by "man" and not God.

But, how does one know if one is "filled with the Holy Spirit"? But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another. Gal 5:22-26 NASB

If you are filled with the Holy Spirit, you will exhibit the fruit in your walk. If you are not filled with the Spirit, there will be no fruit. I don't see "tongues" listed above. God wants us to be filled with His fruit and He will give us the "gifts" that He wants us to have when He wants us to have them and when we will need them to make disciples of all "nations".

1Cor 12:27-31 is always brought up. When you read in context Paul is explaing gifts that edify the family. Shortly after in 1Corinthias Paul states this (which is a verse no ever seems to bring up re: is tongues for all)

14:5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

I do not think that you need to speak in tongues to know you are saved that ridiculous. Yet, we need to see Paul was not putting down tongues, but exhorting the proper use of them and said that all in this gentile church could speak in tongues, but he would rather have the proclaim the gospel truths.

The greek word "gloóssai" means language, and a language that can be understood by those hearing it.

No, the Greek word γλωσσαι means "tongue", as in the thing in your mouth. In most cases, it is understood as "language" b\\c that is what we use our tongue for. But it isn't always used in that way. And no, speaking in tongues isn't always understood by the hearer (1 Co 14:2). Exegesis, not eisegesis.

I know it wasn't your intention, so please don't take it as personal, just trying to make sure we aren't misinforming one another

;-)

Can anyone help on singing in tongues? In the church I attend, if someone speaks in tongues we wait for an interpretation. I can't quote it exactly, but basically there should be just one at a time followed by an interpretation so an unbeliever isn't confused etc. Our church is quite strict on this, but doesn't seem to mind lots of people singing in tongues with no interpretation. Not a massive issue to me really, I just don't undertand why speaking without an interpretation is wrong, but a whole room singing is ok.

Thanks,
Pete

Paul says, "we are not to speak even 5 words without understanding". Even a thousand in unknown tongues means less that 5 with understanding.

What is singing in tongues? Where in scripture is this recommended or given as worship. Even Spanish is a unknown tongue to me, which needs an interpreter for me to understand. I understand a few Spanish words, but cannot tell anyone about Christ without a Spanish, English interpreter of language, like a tongue talker of Navaho translated into English for me.

The only time I see a need for a language interpreter is for understanding what is being said. If there is no understanding don't speak it. To preach the Gospel in a language that is not my native tongue takes the Holy Spirit to make the connection between the speaker and the hearer without and interpreter, this is possible if the Holy Spirit has no other way as it pleases Him. Why pray without understanding? The Holy Spirit prays for us, not through us and He prays with groanings that are not understandable to anyone but He and The God Head, The Father the Son, and the Holy Spirit together Perfect in Union as One God. The Gift of tongues, with an interpreter either human or Spirit. For one purpose only, the preaching of Christ Jesus to the Lost, not for the saved. Man has misused this gift that God has given, for his own manipulation of others, The Spirit would not do this. All Gifts of the Spirit are His and by the Christ that is the True Gift giver that is in us The Holy Spirit has been give the only proper priority working of all gifts, He is the director and disperser of any Gift as it pleases Him.

Of course this is not popular with man.

In Christ: Phillip

Would it be fair to say that the reason why Paul seemed to put tongues towards the end of the list regarding spiritual gifts was because it was the easiest to counterfeit?

I.e., anyone with a working set of vocal courds can speak utterances that lack tangible understanding, and anyone with sufficient bilingual ability can speak about spiritual matters in their own language yet not necessarily be imparting a prophetic word. Ergo, tongues can be A sign, not necessarily THE sign.

It should be noted that ecstatic vocal expression can be found in other religions as well, especially those that put an emphasis on deep experience of the supernatural. I think Paul was well aware of this when addressing gentile members of the Corinthian church who were probably once affiliated with the Greco-Roman belief system as well as the associated "mystery" cults.

(Not that I'm speaking against the gifts as I regularly use tongues in my own personal prayer life. Though of course, we are to be discerning.)

1 Corinthians 14:15-28 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth. How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

This is not a giving of acceptance of tongues, it is a warning that speaking to those that don't understand your language which you naturally learned and they not, is fruitless, and the speaker should keep quite in the church. This is not a heavenly language, it is language of different nationalities of the people of the earth that were divided at the Tower of Babble, which divided the whole earth in their ability to speak with coherent understanding of all that existed at the time.
The warning is that the Church should be under one understanding, which is directed and interpreted through the Holy Spirit to all the Body of Christ, His Church.

1Cr 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Eph 4:4 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Phl 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

Not dividing the Body of Christ by speaking in tongues without understanding by all.

All languages of the earth are capable of being understood by all through the Holy Spirit for the building up of the Church, the Gift of Tongues Or interpret what you are speaking that all might be understood. Paul never needed an interpreter for all that he preached the Gospel of Christ in you the Hope of Glory. How many languages Paul spoke is not important, "more that you all", what is important is that all that heard him speak in their language was directed by the Holy Spirit for the building up of the Church and the bringing of unbelievers to the Cross of Christ and salvation in Christ Jesus.

In Christ: Phillip

[b]orchardkeepe on 2007/3/26 7:31:57[/b]
The Greek word for "tongues" used here in Acts 2:3 is diamerizómenai gloóssai. In English it means "distributed languages". This is the key. There were 16 languages being spoken and HEARD and that was the miracle. This was an historical event that was taking place. The disciples were preaching and over 16 languages were being heard AT THE SAME TIME. The greek word "gloóssai" means language, and a language that can be understood by those hearing it.

Ron,

I have puzzled over this same difficulty. Acts only records Peter preaching and each hearing in his own language. I have considered the possibility that many who were in that upper room were preaching this same word, either dispersed throughout the crowd or together, although this isn't the scriptural reference. It is more than likely your view is correct. I wonder about interpretation of tongues. As in the fact that when a prophetic tongue is spoken someone needs to interpret. That interpreter does not of necessity know the language spoken, yet is able to speak in intelligable language what was spoken. Perhaps the hearers at Pentacost were given this same gift.

In Christ,

Doug

I have considered the possibility that many who were in that upper room were preaching this same word, either dispersed throughout the crowd or together, although this isn't the scriptural reference.

You are right, I think, in drawing attention to the fact that Peter is the preacher in this chapter, and he stands to preach which indicates that the others remained sitting which was their posture when the Spirit came.

So we have 120+ lost in wonder, love and praise, and one man preaching intelligently in Greek for all to hear.

Have you ever noticed this passage...“Also the Levites which were the singers, all of them of Asaph, of Heman, of Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, being arrayed in white linen, having cymbals and psalteries and harps, stood at the east end of the altar, [b]and with them an hundred and twenty priests[/b] sounding with trumpets:) It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the Lord; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the Lord, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that [b]then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the Lord[/b];” (2Chr 5:12-13 KJVS)This is the record of God coming in power to take up residence in his temple. Did you notice how many priests there were? Is this one of the Spirit's little clues as to the significance of the Acts 2 event?

Acts 2:5-8 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Is this not speaking and hearing in languages of all but understanding by the Holy Spirit and one in accord with the coming of the promised prayer of Christ, that is the "Comforter" who will be with you forever, oops, "I mean in you for ever."

In Christ: Phillip

Is this not speaking and hearing in languages of all but understanding by the Holy Spirit and one in accord with the coming of the promised prayer of Christ, that is the "Comforter" who will be with you forever, oops, "I mean in you for ever."

Quote: By Ron

""But this moves the miracle from the 120+ to the vast crowd that were listening. The Acts reference is to a miracle of 'speaking'. Your understanding converts it to a miracle of 'hearing'. This would not then be 'speaking in tongues' but 'hearing in tongues'""

Question: By Phillip

"Is this not speaking and hearing in languages of all but understanding by the Holy Spirit and one in accord with the coming of the promised prayer of Christ, that is the "Comforter" who will be with you forever, oops, "I mean in you for ever."

Question: By Ron

Have you ever noticed this passage...
“Also the Levites which were the singers, all of them of Asaph, of Heman, of Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, being arrayed in white linen, having cymbals and psalteries and harps, stood at the east end of the altar, and with them an hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets:) It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the Lord; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the Lord, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the Lord;” (2Chr 5:12-13 KJVS)
This is the record of God coming in power to take up residence in his temple. Did you notice how many priests there were? Is this one of the Spirit's little clues as to the significance of the Acts 2 event?

Answer: Phillip

Yes an outward significance for their outward worship and sacrifice and hearing of the High Priest that made sacrifice for the people often.

Acts 2, The appearance and filling of the Holy Spirit and birth of the High Priest in them, which Paul would explain clearly 15 years later that is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory" Col 1:27. And also the Holy Spirit of promise.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Who came at Pentecost and is now in those Sealed and Baptized into one Spirit, which is also the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of the Father.

1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

And this, is this not the same picture, the wife of God concerned about the things of this world. The virgin bride of Christ concerned about the things of the Spirit we are baptized into.

1Cr 7:34 There is difference [also] between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please [her] husband.

Taking this mystery of Paul that now by the Christ in us and by the Holy Spirit of Promise we are able to discern and understand this mystery of being Born Again by Spirit and Water to a new Life in Christ Jesus our Lord, and Now called son's of God in Christ Jesus being fellow heirs with Him.

In Christ: Phillip

Why would Paul desire for them all to speak in seperate languages if they could already communicate to each other within their small church community? 1Cor 14:1-5

Also note Paul is not mocking tongues he's calling for the proper use, and reaffirming that the proclamation of the Gospel is the most important gift

i have such a hard time with praying in tongues
i started praying in tongues before any one told me that i couldn't,
i had to hold my hands over my ears so i wouldn't hear it as much it sounded so foreign.
most baptist are not big on that particular gift,
when i told my pastor he was a little surprised and said that he prefers to pray in his own language but didn't beat me up about it. so i have tried to read and listen to any one that had any thing to say about the subject.

so basically I'm still wondering if it does any one any good as far as edifying prayer life and spiritual life i have heard so many conflicting versions that i really don't practice that form of prayer.though i still think about often and every once i awhile i let it go it seems to be always on my lips.
jeff :-o

[u]Compliments on 2007/3/27 21:50:14[/u]
Now tell me, what language do you know of in the world that speaketh into the Spirit, mysteries??