The Tithe - A shadow of things to come...

Dear Brethren,
I am writing this post testify of what happened when I sought the face of the Lord for understanding and revelation.

I have been brought up to believe that every believer is to tithe 10 percent of their income, lest they be cursed of God, and this is what passed on to other believers. However, in a search for more understanding and more scriptures to prove the point of tithing, I got a bit confused. As I searched all the scriptures concerning tithing, it did not seem to strengthen the case for tithing, but rather to weaken it. I decided not to go deeper and put it aside for a while, thinking that this was a matter to high for me...

...However, on many occasions I felt the Holy Spirit nudging my heart to seek more understanding concerning this complex matter, and so I did. One day, as I was in agony about the whole thing, I got on my knees and I asked the Lord: "Lord, what is the tithe?". Now I wasn't asking to find out if the tithe was 10 percent brutto or netto or anything like that, but I was seeking God in honesty as a child that knew nothing, but so desperately wanted to get an answer from my Father.

The answer came immediately. God said: "A shadow of things to come". As God said that, a floodgate of understanding literally exploded in my heart. Suddenly I began to see how the law and the prophets prophesied about Jesus, how it all spoke of Him and pointed to Him.

Not only was the tithe fulfilled in Him and by Him, because He is that first part that sanctifies the rest, but He is also the fulfilment of the first fruit, every animal sacrifice, He is the fulfilment of the blessing of the firstborn etc. All these things were only types and shadows pointing to Him, but in themselves they did not bring perfection. Now that Christ has come, we are no longer going to serve the types and the shadows which spoke of Christ and taught us about Him, but we are to serve Him!

Unfortunately, the church today not only seek to serve this shadow of things to come, but it has been turned into a tradition that makes the word of God of no effect. I have studied the reasons why God instituted the tithe in first place, and what I found not only astonished me, but it also revealed the true heart of God to me.

In Deuteronomy 14:22-29 God commands His people to rejoice before Him as they EAT THEIR TITHE, and as they parttake in (eat of) what He has provided for them, they are to learn to fear Him. One of the main reasons that I found was also this: God instituted the tithe, so that the levites, the orphans, the widow, the poor and the strangers could eat and be satisfied. God's heart is truly revealed here. God wanted food in His house for those who are needy and without.

When I read Malachi 3 in this context, I understand, that when God's people fail to care for the poor and needy even in their midst, they are indeed robbing God. Oh, but for how long are we going to rob God, by robbing poor widows on welfare, by telling them that unless they bring 10 percent of their income to the church they are cursed of God? My dear brethren, the food was supposed to be for the widows and for the poor among us!

If we care to study how the new testament church in the book of Acts functioned, we find that that those who had supported and supplied those who did not have. It is simple and it is the heart of God.

Speaking of the early church, there is a great paradox concerning tithing. The tithe was 10 percent of the produce of your land and your livestock, but in the book of Acts we discover that the believers sold their land and their possessions and brought the money to the apostles, so that it might be distributed to those who had the need. If the believers sold their land, from which crop where they to tithe from?

Historically it is also a fact that we do not hear about tithing in the church until around the Nicene period (325 AD).

When all this is said, I will also say this: I believe that generous and sacrificial giving is part of the Christian walk, and there is no two ways about that. A true believer will be moved to give to God's work and to those who are in need, however, I find it very inconsistent with God's character, to demand from the poor rather than to support them, and too often this is how tithing is practised in our churches... :-( ...in fact, our system of tithing has litte or no relationship at all with the tithe of the scriptures!!!

Be blessed,

Stampe

AMEN,DITTO ,DID THE SAME THING,GOT THE SAME ANSWER!......David

Amen, I love the part when God said, "A shadow of things to come".

[b]Colosians 2:17[/b] [color=990000]These were a shadow of things that were soon to come, but [b]the substance belongs to Christ.[/b][/color]

Tithing was instituted for people who had a different relation to God than we now have in Christ. Tithing is inconsistent with the most important aspects of the New Covenant and the believer's new nature in Christ.

New Testement requires 100% of everything, not 10% of the money one needs to pay bills with.

The reason Abraham gave a tenth was because of God's deliverance from his enemies. We would call this tenth, "a thank offering". Tithing was not part of Abraham's covenant.

Abraham did not give tithe to Melchizedek from his personal possessions but from the spoils of war after rescuing Lot. Therefore we can see that Abraham was not following an unwritten tithe law when he gave tithe to the King of Salem. And besides, the Levitical tithe law did not include "spoils of war." Spoils of War were not included in the Levitical Tithe Law. Tithing was not part of Abraham's covenant.

Mal 3:8-9 Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. "But you ask, 'How do we rob you?' "In tithes and offerings." "You are under a curse--the whole nation of you--because you are robbing me."

It is impossible for Christians to rob God in tithe.
If it is yours from erning it, it is yours to do as you need.
Act 5:4a While it remained unsold, was not the land your own? And when sold, was it not at your own disposal?

I could go on about the "widows two mites" if you want to know what Jesus sais about that.

Quote:
So I wouldn’t tithe at a church, only giving as I had and as God led me. Please don’t buy into the lies your preacher gives you concerning tithing. It was necessary in the OT for many reasons but it is no longer applicable. To apply it today is ridiculous. Give as you have and give cheerfully as Paul admonishes us.

WHO IS THIS PAUL

The Old Testament teaches in Leviticus that they brought a 10% of everything they owned and there business and they did this once a year. However, this is not taught in the church today nor will you find it in the New Testament.

You can see that in Malachi it says that you are to bring your tithe INTO THE STORE HOUSE which is the church, that there may be food in his house. It goes on to say that you can test Him in the area of tithes and offering to see if he would not open the windows of heaven and poor out a blessing that you would not have any room to contain it. It also says that he would stop the devour on your behalf.

I learned many years ago that what actually opens the window of heaven is not the Tithe but you’re offering. The tithe is mandatory, for your own benefit, but the offering. You could never out give God, the more you give the more he keeps giving back Amen.

-Are you alright, is there anything I can do for you?
-Let’s talk what are you believing God for?
-Is there anything in particular that you have been praying for?
-Do you have any kids, is there anything that they may need, do you have food for them and clothes, and if yes, do they each wear two socks.

*When the Israelites were in Egypt under the hand of Pharaoh they would cry out to God in faith. When sending Moses out to bring his people from captivity he literally told Moses I have heard there cry. (The I Am that I Am) has heard there cry. Not one prayer! Not one tear! Has gone unnoticed or unheard by Him.

WHAT IS YOUR NAME?

I ask because when in prayer God spoke to my heart about you, you see I understand trust me I do.
My school has been the school of hard knocks, not that God intended for it to be this way, but because he knew he could trust me with it, and that I would not become bitter but would use my experiences as a learning experience to help others.

God is desiring to bless you, so that you would continue to believe in him and continue to pray. You see he is Jehovah Jirah your provider, Amen

When the Lord has trusted to bless you monetarily again, I must emphasize that I am old school. When the Lord has trusted to bless you monetarily and it is not the amount that you have been praying for then what you have been given is seed to sow, 99% of the time it’s so that you would sow it into the Kingdom of God, THE CHURCH, and trust me you will reap a harvest it is guarantied

I know that this may not sound Theological but it needed to be said.

This is also what I believe, that the tithe is strictly for the Church and the Offering for the Priest, could this be why the offering is what would open the windows of heaven? I also believe that your offering should always be higher then your tithes, I think this is where we are missing it or at least this is what frustrates me and has.

------------
The reason Abraham gave a tenth was because of God's deliverance from his enemies. We would call this tenth, ‘a thank offering’

So then what would you call a burnt offering and a peace offering?

Quote:
So I wouldn’t tithe at a church, only giving as I had and as God led me. Please don’t buy into the lies your preacher gives you concerning tithing. It was necessary in the OT for many reasons but it is no longer applicable. To apply it today is ridiculous. Give as you have and give cheerfully as Paul admonishes us.

WHO IS THIS PAUL

The Old Testament teaches in Leviticus that they brought a 10% of everything they owned and there business and they did this once a year. However, this is not taught in the church today nor will you find it in the New Testament.

You can see that in Malachi it says that you are to bring your tithe INTO THE STORE HOUSE which is the church, that there may be food in his house. It goes on to say that you can test Him in the area of tithes and offering to see if he would not open the windows of heaven and poor out a blessing that you would not have any room to contain it. It also says that he would stop the devour on your behalf.

I learned many years ago that what actually opens the window of heaven is not the Tithe but you’re offering. The tithe is mandatory, for your own benefit, but the offering. You could never out give God, the more you give the more he keeps giving back Amen.

-Are you alright, is there anything I can do for you?
-Let’s talk what are you believing God for?
-Is there anything in particular that you have been praying for?
-Do you have any kids, is there anything that they may need, do you have food for them and clothes, and if yes, do they each wear two socks.

*When the Israelites were in Egypt under the hand of Pharaoh they would cry out to God in faith. When sending Moses out to bring his people from captivity he literally told Moses I have heard there cry. (The I Am that I Am) has heard there cry. Not one prayer! Not one tear! Has gone unnoticed or unheard by Him.

WHAT IS YOUR NAME?

I ask because when in prayer God spoke to my heart about you, you see I understand trust me I do.
My school has been the school of hard knocks, not that God intended for it to be this way, but because he knew he could trust me with it, and that I would not become bitter but would use my experiences as a learning experience to help others.

God is desiring to bless you, so that you would continue to believe in him and continue to pray. You see he is Jehovah Jirah your provider, Amen

When the Lord has trusted to bless you monetarily again, I must emphasize that I am old school. When the Lord has trusted to bless you monetarily and it is not the amount that you have been praying for then what you have been given is seed to sow, 99% of the time it’s so that you would sow it into the Kingdom of God, THE CHURCH, and trust me you will reap a harvest it is guarantied

I know that this may not sound Theological but it needed to be said.

This is also what I believe, that the tithe is strictly for the Church and the Offering for the Priest, could this be why the offering is what would open the windows of heaven? I also believe that your offering should always be higher then your tithes, I think this is where we are missing it or at least this is what frustrates me and has.

------------
The reason Abraham gave a tenth was because of God's deliverance from his enemies. We would call this tenth, ‘a thank offering’

So then what would you call a burnt offering and a peace offering?

[b]Mark 12:39-40[/b] [color=990000]And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:
[b]:40a [u]Which devour widows' houses[/u],[/b][/color]

[b]Mark 12:44[/b] [color=990000]For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.[/color]

Jesus was pointing out that this widow shouldn't have been made to give anything, because it was all that she had and she needed it to live.

Now that she gave all she had, what is she going to do now? Beg?

WHOA, brother!!!!!

very true words, un-Christlike presentation.

"speaking the truth in love." right?

there is a balance with truth and love. don't give love without the truth, don't give truth without love.

least of all,
~vico

Dear Jeanette and Compliments,

Thank you for your replies. I am deeply humbled by what you wrote. It also brought a great deal of joy and consolation to me, that God is speaking this word to many more brethren out there.

Please pray for me, because this revelation is not at all popular in the church I am attending, but I believe it is a word that needs to be heard.

I am also looking forward to hear whatever the Lord will lay on your hearts concerning this matter.

Love,

Stampe

Intens4Him wrote:
I think you would be interested in listening to [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=63]Gladys Alyward[/url], specifically her 1st testimony. (If you listen to it, turn all the bass off, it's kinda hard to hear since it's from the early 60's.)

I've paid tithes since I was saved and began sort of praying about not paying tithes, not because I didn't believe in it but because the church I was attending was only paying bills (no one was getting help). I started praying and then by the Spirit I came upon this site and her testimony.

She speaks (from her Chinese Bible) in Malachi 3.10, about bringing to the storehouse our "completed tithe." What interested me most by her testimony was that she said our completed tithe is not money but ourselves.

PS: This is all new to me, if you could explain the widows two mites, I'd love to read about what Jesus said.

Thank you!

[b]I admire Gladys Aylward for her work in China, but teaching that the tithe is bringing yourself is not scriptural. However, since the Chinese were so poor, perhaps she meant giving of your time and help to others instead of money would be acceptable to God. After all, that was what she did herself, and her ministry was blessed.

Back to Malichi:[/b]

[color=993300][b]Malachi 3

1. Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.[/color][/b]

[b]This is a reference to Christ's first coming.[/b]

[color=993300] 2. But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3. And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.
4. Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the Lord, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
5. And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the Lord of hosts.
6. For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
7. Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
[b]8. Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
11. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.[/color][/b]

[b]This is the blessing of the tithe, and also a test you are permitted to test God with.

But the blessings are rarely monetary. Most of them are spiritual, then practical, physical, or circumstantial, as relates to family and self, and then, if you receive these blessings well, and steward well what money God does give you, God will also bless the work of your hands.[/b]

[color=993300][b] 12. And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the Lord of hosts.[/color][/b]

[b]America, when She was Christian as a nation, and tithing was not used to glorify the churches, or the Pastors, we were the envy of the world. Now only 5 - 8% tithe and give offerings that are more than a token.

Christianity is heading toward being persecuted in the land it built, and we are hated worldwide. Pity we don't go back to tithing, and small churches, that we might actually support, but not enrich the Pastors, and then do good with the rest.[/b]

[color=993300]13. Your words have been stout against me, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, What have we spoken so much against thee?
[b] 14. Ye have said, It is vain to serve God: and what profit is it that we have kept his ordinance, and that we have walked mournfully before the Lord of hosts?[/color][/b]

[b]If you don't give with a gladsome heart, because you are obeying God, and enjoying obeying God, why tithe? God would actually prefer you didn't moan over and mourn over the loss of your 10%.[/b]

[color=993300] 15. And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered.
[b] 16. Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.
17. And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.[/color][/b]

[b]This is how God views we Christians, as sons, and yet we are gravely disobedient, to not speak well of God's desires, and to fail in obeying the laws that apply to us, under grace.[/b]

[color=993300][b] 18. Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
[/color][/b]

[b]When will we learn? Cain complained over the sacrifice, but Abel did not. Cain was angry that his few sheaves of corn or wheat were not satisfactory to God, so much so that he killed Abel for happily giving something of more value.

The quarrel with God over whether to give and how much to give started all the way back then.

Then Abraham, into whom Christians are grafted into, to receive the blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, are still moaning and mourning over simple obedience.

Is it not the same tithes and offerings we complain of now?

Do we give to the churches? Yes, if they need it.

If they do not, give to the poor, the hungry, the thirsty, the sick, the imprisoned, and to missionaries and evangelists that you may have a part in their soul winning.

But please, give in gladness, or not at all, and stop moaning over what can be great blessings to us.

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[color=993300]EDIT: Mark 12:38. And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,
39. And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:
40. Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.
41. And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
42. And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
43. And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
44. For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living. END EDIT[/color][/b]

Now, as to the Widow's Mite, and why Jesus was so impressed, was that her tiny amount of money was her tithe and offerings. And she had so little, that there was only enough for the tithe and offerings, and nothing for herself.

All the others gave out of their plenty, knowing that after paying the tithes and offerings, they would be able to eat, buy clothing, pay for teaching at the Yeshiva (It wasn't free then either), and save up for their daughter's dowry.

It is the epitome of sacrificial giving.

Have I put it to the test? Yes. I went a year without paying my mortgage, but paid my tithe.

I was afraid. I prayed to keep my small house. The Holy Spirit gave me songs to sing about trusting in God.

I sang them constantly.

At the end of the year, though I had no proof of income, and no actual ability to pay the mortgage, the V.A gave me a signature loan for all that I owed them.

Then God arranged for my mortgage to be paid by a family member, and raised that person's income the full amount of the mortgage he paid for me.

You know, until just now, writing this down, I hadn't even realized that I was that Widow, and that I had given my mites. And God honored His promise, Praise be unto Him!

In Christ,

Forrest Anderson

For what it's worth, here are my two mites on Malachi, because the miss-use of Mal 3:10 concerns me. First let me say that the book of Malachi, espeically 3:10, had everything to do with the people who were not giving the whole tithe and unblemished offerings, and nothing to do with those that were. To prove this we have to go back to the book of Haggai, where we find that in prosperity they were not giving the whole tithe. The House Of God had fallen into disarray.
Hag 1:5 Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts: Consider your ways,
Hag 1:6 Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes.
Hag 1:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts: Consider your ways.
Hag 1:8 Go up to the mountain, and bring wood, and build the house; and I will take pleasure in it, and I will be glorified, saith the LORD.
Hag 1:9 Ye looked for much, and, lo, it came to little; and when ye brought it home, I did blow upon it. Why? saith the LORD of hosts. Because of mine house that lieth waste, while ye run every man to his own house.
Hag 1:10 Therefore for your sake the heaven is stayed from dew, and the earth is stayed from her fruit.
Hag 1:11 And I called for a drought upon the land, and upon the mountains, and upon the corn, and upon the wine, and upon the oil, and upon that which the ground bringeth forth, and upon men, and upon cattle, and upon all the labour of the hands.
So now we see that drought was brought on the land because of their failure to give the full tithe and pure offerings. Not only that, the priests were offering polluted bread and blemished sin offerings. And, again we see that this time, in their lack, they were not giving the whole tithe.
Hag 2:11 Thus saith the LORD of hosts: Ask now the priests concerning the law, saying,
Hag 2:12 If one bear holy flesh in the skirt of his garment, and with his skirt do touch bread, or pottage, or wine, or oil, or any meat, shall it become holy? And the priests answered and said, No.
Hag 2:13 Then said Haggai, If one that is unclean by a dead body touch any of these, shall it be unclean? And the priests answered and said, It shall be unclean.
Hag 2:14 Then answered Haggai and said, So is this people, and so is this nation before me, saith the LORD; and so is every work of their hands; and that which they offer there is unclean.
Hag 2:15 And now, I pray you, consider from this day and upward, from before a stone was laid upon a stone in the temple of the LORD:
Hag 2:16 Through all that time, when one came to an heap of twenty, there were but ten; when one came to the winefat for to draw out fifty vessels, there were but twenty.
Mal 1:6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?
Mal 1:7 Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar. And ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the LORD is contemptible.
Mal 1:8 And when ye offer the blind for sacrifice, it is no evil! and when ye offer the lame and sick, it is no evil! Present it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee? or will he accept thy person? saith the LORD of hosts.
So now we see in Mal 3, that when they bring the entire tithe and pure offering to the temple, Father will restore the rain from heaven to increase their crops, flocks, and herds.
Mal 3:6 For I the LORD change not; therefore ye, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.
Mal 3:7 From the days of your fathers ye have turned aside from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye say, Wherein shall we return?
Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? yet ye rob me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Mal 3:9 Ye are cursed with the curse; for ye rob me, even this whole nation.
Mal 3:10 Bring ye the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Mal 3:11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:12 And all nations shall call you happy: for ye shall he a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.
The way Mal 3:10 is used today to raise funds is, in my mind, unapropriate. Personally, my giving of a tenth follows the guidelines laid down in Isaiah 58: 6-7
May God smile when He thinks of you. :-)

Ive never tithed in my life and God has given me my every hearts desire. I do give as He leads me to give and I do believe in supporting the ministry that brings the word of the Lord to us, just as Paul taught that those that preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

But until churches stop wasting Gods money on frivolous things Ill give the money He loans me in this lifetime to make sure a widow or orphan is fed directly.
if Im wrong, Ill answer to Him then...but theres no way Im putting money in to buy pretty new carpeting in some building destined to burn.
The church started in homes and public places and thats where she belongs. Not hold up in some multimillion dollar facility that shadows many military installations.

Hi,
Without going too deep into it I cant help thinking that their is a direct problem with teaching that God wont bless you if you don't give ten percent and Grace(favour).We are saying on one hand that we are saved by grace but that doesnt extend to our finances.We are also limiting God in his dealing with his children.God cant bless his children unless they pay up first!I dont think so,
Rgds staff

Stampe wrote:

Speaking of the early church, there is a great paradox concerning tithing. The tithe was 10 percent of the produce of your land and your livestock, but in the book of Acts we discover that the believers sold their land and their possessions and brought the money to the apostles, so that it might be distributed to those who had the need. If the believers sold their land, from which crop where
they to tithe from?

Historically it is also a fact that we do not hear about tithing in the church until around the Nicene period (325 AD).

When all this is said, I will also say this: I believe that generous and sacrificial giving is part of the Christian walk, and there is no two ways about that. A true believer will be moved to give to God's
work and to those who are in need, however, I find it very inconsistent with God's character, to demand from the poor rather than to support them, and too often this is how tithing is practised in our churches... :-( ...in fact, our system of tithing has litte or no relationship at all with the tithe of the scriptures!!!

Be blessed,

Stampe

Bravo on that great insight regarding the first seed being sown was a first born son, and what it was a shadow of.

I too had wondered about the early church, and how they held everything in common. Actually, it was voluntary.

[color=993300]Acts 5:1. But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
2. And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
3. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4. Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.[/color]

It was their lie that they were giving all, when they were not that was the problem.

The insight given to me on this question from the Holy Spirit was that since most Christ followers were kicked out of their family group, the new church in Jerusalem was their new family, and as in any tribal society, they felt the need for James and the other Apostles and Elders that stayed in Jerusalem to keep order, and handle the finances, so that their poor, no longer eligible for help from the temple, would be taken care of.

Being a Christ follower was less difficult in the smaller towns, and with the persecution, soon went underground everywhere, but Christians always went to other Christians until the Roman Empire took over the religion for it's own purposes.

Since Jesus was the fulfillment of Judaism, not the start of a new religion, I venture to say that many Christ followers were also good Jews, going to the Synagogue, and paying their tithes to whom they saw fit, even as we should do.

As for eating their tithes, the way the Jews calculated it, there were three tithes. The first tenth was on what you inherited, if anything, the second tithe was on your increase over and above the income from your original inheritance. These two tithes were actually covering all the income one had, and was paid to the Levites, and besides their support, they were supposed to take care of the poor, the sick, the widows and orphans, and keep up the Temple and Synagogues.

The third tithe (Actually the second in reality) was to cover the feast offerings, where you ate your sacrifices. Your sin offerings and thank offerings were above those.

The technical stuff about the tithes is from non-Biblical Rabbinical writings that I do not have sources on, but was a commentary on how the tithes were calculated and used until 70AD.

However, just from reading the New Testament, one gets a pretty good picture that the Levites were not concerned with anyone but themselves, since there were beggars everywhere, and widows and orphans gleaning the fields.

Since we don't keep the feasts, I think we should tithe and give offerings, but frankly, you just have to start out with $10.00 here and $20.00 there, until you no longer feel the Holy Spirit nudging you to give more.

What I have to give, I'll give where it does the most good. From Jesus' viewpoint, that was:

[color=993300]Matthew 25:31. When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32. And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33. And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36. Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38. When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39. Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40. And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.[/color]

Whether it is 1% of your income or 10% of your income, if you give this way, and in gladness at being able to help, you will be blessed, both now, and in heaven.

But since I'm over 10%, I'll keep listening to the Holy Spirit, and when He says give here also, I'll obey. Besides, have I not tested Him in this, and not found Him wanting?

Blessings,

Forrest

But until churches stop wasting Gods money on frivolous things Ill give the money He loans me in this lifetime to make sure a widow or orphan is fed directly.

if Im wrong, Ill answer to Him then...but theres no way Im putting money in to buy pretty new carpeting in some building destined to burn.

The church started in homes and public places and thats where she belongs. Not hold up in some multimillion dollar facility that shadows many military installations.

“I brought a friend with me to work who is vastly influential in this topic and
I would like to address this, if that’s ok?”

Let me first introduce you to my friend Haggai. I’ve known her for approximately 12 years, and have grown to value her heart. She lives her life giving to God always giving to God and never expecting anything in return, not many people understand her for she has a strong character she looks timid until you get to know her and once you do she will talk her little heart out and is so much fun to be around with, as long as you maintain certain boundaries. I ask her once why the boundaries and this is what she said….

“The word BOUNDARY means a border and perimeter if you will” There is a line that I do not allow anyone to cross, once they have crossed that line it’s over”

I said to Haggai, Haggai don’t you think that this would give people a bad perception of who you really are, why not let them get to know you, to know your heart. What are you afraid of? She changed the conversation and proceeded to teach me something about her past, something that she thought I didn’t know, so I just listened as I often do. I came to the conclusion that in order to know the present and the future you first know the past.

Haggai had written a novel, I like to call it a novel though it sounds harsh. I call it a novel because I was there when she was writing it and I lived what she lived, I cried when she cried, and was filled with so much hope and faith.

THIS IS HOW THE STORY GOES AND TO SOME YOU MIGHT REMEMBER IT.

Then Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel, Jeshua son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and the whole remnant of God’s people obeyed the message from the Lord their God. It had been delivered by the prophet Haggai, whom the Lord their God had sent, and the people worshiped the Lord in earnest. Then Haggai, the Lord’s messenger, gave the people this message from the Lord: “I am with you, says the Lord!” So the Lord sparked the enthusiasm of Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, Jeshua son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and the whole remnant of God’s people. They came and began their work on the house of the Lord Almighty, their God. This was on September 21* of the second year of King Darius’s regin.

On December 18* of the second year of King Darius’s regin, the Lord sent this message to the prophet Haggai: “This is what the Lord Almighty says! Ask the priest this question about the law: If one of you is carrying a holy sacrifice in his robes and happens to brush against some bread or stew, wine or oil, or any other kind of food, will it also become holy?”

The Priest replied, “NO”.

Then Haggai asked, “But if someone becomes ceremonially unclean by touching a dead person and then brushes against any of the things mentioned, will it be defiled?”

And the priests answered, “YES”.

Then Haggai said, “That is how it is with this people and this nation, says the LORD. Everything they do and everything they offer is defiled. So think about this from now
On—consider how things were going for you before you began to lay the foundation of the LORD’S Temple. When you hoped for a twenty-bushel crop, you harvested only ten. When you expected to draw fifty gallons from the winepress, you found only twenty. I sent blight and mildew and hail to destroy all the produce of your labor. Yet, even so, you refused to return to me, says the Lord.

“On this eighteenth day of December the day when the foundation of the Lord’s Temple was laid—carefully consider this: I am giving you a promise now while the seed is still in the barn, before you have harvested your grain and before the grapevine, the figtree, the pomegranate, and the olive tree have produced their corps. From this day onward I will bless you.”

The Lord sent this second message to Haggai on December 18. “Tell Zerubbabel, the governor of Judah, that I am about to shake the heavens and the earth. I will overthrow royal thrones, destroying the power of foreign kingdoms. I will overturn their chariots and charioteers. The horses will fall, and their riders will kill each other. But when this happens, says the Lord Almighty, I will honor you, Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel, my servant. I will treat you like a signet ring on my finger, says the LORD, for I have especially chosen you. I, the LORD ALMIGHTY, have spoken!”

On August 29* of the second year of King Darius’s regin, the Lord gave a message through the prophet Haggai to Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Jeshua* son of Jehozadak, the high priest.

“This is what the Lord Almighty says: The people are saying, “The time has not yet come to rebuild the Lord’s house – The Temple.”

So the Lord sent this message through the prophet Haggai: “Why are you living in luxurious houses while my house lies in ruins? This is what the Lord Almighty says: Consider how things are going for you! You have planted much but harvested little. You have food to eat, but not enough to fill you up. You have wine to drink, but not enough to satisfy your thirst. You have clothing to wear, but not enough to keep you warm. Your wages disappear as though you were putting them in pockets filled with holes!

This is what the Lord Almighty says: Consider how things are going for you! Now go up into the hills, bring down timber, and rebuild my house. Then I will take pleasure in it and be honored, says the Lord. You hoped for rich harvests, but they were poor. And when you brought your harvest home, I blew it away. Why? Because my house lies in ruins, says the Lord Almighty, while you are all busy building your own fine houses. That is why the heavens have withheld the dew and the earth has withheld it’s crops. I have called for a drought on your fields and hills—a drought to wither the grain and grapes and olives and all your other crops, a drought to starve both you and your cattle and to ruin everything you have worked so hard to get.”

HARSH WORDS I KNOW, BUT WAIT.

“Then on October 17* of that same year, the Lord sent another message through the prophet Haggai. “Say this to Zarubbabel son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Jeshua son of Jehozadak, the hight priest, and to the remnant of God’s people there in the land: Is there anyone who can remember this house—temple—as it was before? In comparison, how dies it look to you now? It must seem like nothing at all! But now take courage, Zerubbabel, says the LORD. Take Courage, Jeshua son of Jehozada, the high priest. Take Courage, all you people still left in the land, says the LORD. Take courgare and work, for I am with you, says the Lord Almighty. My Spirit remains among you, just
For this is what the Lord Amighty says: In just a little while I will again shake the oceans and dry land, too. I will shake all the nations, and the treasures of all the nations will come to this TEMPLE. I will fill this place with glory, says the Lord Amighty.
The Silver is mine, and the gold is mine, says the Lord Almighty. The future glory of this Temple will be greater than its past glory, says the LORD ALMIGHTY. And in this place I will bring peace. I, the LORD ALMIGHTY, have spoken!”

“The Silver is mine, and the gold is mine, says the Lord Almighty. The future glory of this Temple will be greater than its past glory, says the LORD ALMIGHTY. And in this place I will bring peace. I, the LORD ALMIGHTY, have spoken!”

Soo what did you think? Would you re-consider your statement? Chairs would be feasible and I could help you remove the plastic from each one. Soo what do you say?

You might be wondering what the title of this book is:
GOD FIRST AND EVERYTHING ELSE SECOND.

She would, kill me – if she heard that I shared this with you, so please if you ever meet her do not mention this at all.

I was trying to find answers about tithing today and i always have felt that a tithe is giving to anybody in need or spreading the gospel through bibles or gospel tracts or whatever not just always giving money to the church or in a church. If my brother needs a bill to be paid and doesn't have the money i give it to him out of the abundance of my heart and that can be considered my tithe. Thats what i think.

That's the essence of my thinking too. I used to do tithing and I think there could be no problem about it as long as it is not set as stumbling block and rendered with a cheerful heart. But I wouldnt call it tithing now nor be strict as to the amount or schedule nor be legalistic with the act of giving per se.

Well, sometimes we are pressed with selfish concerns and other worries which we must repent by seeking His kingdom first, living our daily lives according to His will or purposes.

Brian,

Most of us are taught that if we don't pay now .... we will eventually pay one way or another!! That is fear tactics and Jesus isn't about fear tactic and human nature is to buck against any type of tactics to get us (me) to do anything!

I sure liked and understood what you wrote [emphasis is mine]:

...I have felt a little threatened in my belief because I am completely surrounded by this teaching. I wrote a month or so ago in "10%,100%, or nothing" that I will continue to tithe, but mainly because I am not confident that I have been whole hearted to God, especially regarding money, therefore, I wanted to at least have the tithe as a disciplinary measure to keep me in check.

Thank you for that honesty, I appreciate it and it helped me.

Let us be very simple in this faith. If you give 10% of your financial income for a tithe (not a bad thing) you will be exactly 10% poorer. Expect nothing more.

[b]Luke 6
34.[/b] "If you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners in order to receive back the same amount.
[b]35.[/b] "But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men.

Shall we then lend to God and expect Him to say something different? Ah, even the sinners lend to sinners expecting in return but because you have lent to God of your worldy substance, just what He always wanted, He shall pour out His Holy Spirit upon you and make you a prosperous nation. Oh, really? Is that why God sees to our needs? Is that why He pours out His Holy Spirit? Is your tithing so divine as to be measured against the ineffable blood of Christ; that your tithing shall send down the promised Holy Ghost? [edit: "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!" (Acts 8:20)]

[b]Matthew 25
40.[/b] "The King will answer and say to them, `Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'"

Do you require more reward than this my brothers? Seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, entrust the other stuff to Him and do not trouble yourself with tomorrow. [edit: As Martin Luther has said, there are only two days on the Christian calendar: Today and Judgment Day.]

[b]Luke 11
39.[/b] But the Lord said to him, "Now you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and of the platter; but inside of you, you are full of robbery and wickedness.
[b]40.[/b] "You foolish ones, did not He who made the outside make the inside also?
[b]41.[/b] "But give that which is within as charity, and then all things are clean for you.
[b]42.[/b] "But woe to you Pharisees! For you pay tithe of mint and rue and every kind of garden herb, and yet disregard justice and the love of God; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.

There is a balance between giving of our worldy substance, which is of little benefit, and of our giving from the charity of the Spirit of Christ within which sanctifies the offering and the tithe.

If you give tithe or money to the church or to those in need then expect nothing in return, not even that God shall "open up the gates of heaven and pour out a double portion" financial or otherwise and not even that God shall cover your rent or mortgage either, not even for your next $1 meal from McDonalds. Expect nothing, require nothing and rejoice in giving for it is greater to give than to receive.

To be very honest if you cannot pay your rent or mortgage perhaps it is the very mercy of God that you should lose everything that binds you and enslaves you to this world system of monetary needs. I just spoke the other night to a homeless man on this very point. Every time he would get money or a place of his own he would fall right back in to drinking and end up right back on the street where he would continue his drinking addiction. He was trusting in money or shelter or food or a wife as functional saviors. We must regard,

[b]Proverbs 30
7.[/b] Two things I asked of You,
Do not refuse me before I die:
[b]8.[/b] Keep deception and lies far from me,
Give me neither poverty nor riches;
Feed me with the food that is my portion,
[b]9.[/b] That I not be full and deny You and say, "Who is the LORD ?"
Or that I not be in want and steal,
And profane the name of my God.

Why shall God give us riches if riches are the very thing that shall cause us to forget Him? Why do we even desire to have more money? So that we may give more money to those in need? Perhaps to give in part but not in sincerity. We do not intend to live like missionaries, like sojourners in a strange land, as those who live content with food and raiment. But we must have the car, the house, the tv, the movie collection, the cds, the iPod, the comfy bed, the decoration, etc. etc. ...

If you would like to see the testimony of men who gave their tithe with thanksgiving in their hearts then I would recommend you all to read [url=http://www.e316.com/Hudson-Taylor/0871239515.htm]Hudson Taylor[/url] an autobiography written by Hudson Taylor including his account of preparing for and going to China where he founded the China Inland Mission. As well, looking up a biography of George Muller and his ministry with the Orphanages in Bristol. These are men who understood what it was to give of their tithes and offerings.

Brother Stampe,

You have received a wonderful understanding from the Lord....

I also fought with the same issues in my earlier days, and I have had to deal with the likes of emmeging church leaders and pastors of the 20th and 21st century exclaim to me that you cannot be blessed(happy) without paying the tithe....

Let every man be a liar, and let God be True.

Praise God for the insight that the father has delivered to you through His dear Son.

I do believe in giving out of God's favor, not to win his favor, for in Christ we have an overflow of the Fathers favor and blessing.

Love in Christ tom