Does God love or hate sinners?

Psalm 5:5 (King James Version)

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Does He hate sinners?

Does He love sinners?

What say you guys...and gals

I have never thought about it like that, but I think that 'both' would be correct.

God so loved the world...tasted death for every man...God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

...but also...

I have hated them that regard lying vanities...The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth...I hate them with perfect hatred

How many times have you heard "God hates the sin, but loves the sinner"?

There are scriptures that say he hates sinners.

Has this been preached wrongly?

Does anyone have any good teachings on this issue they could share?

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=8309]The Wrath of God by Charles Leiter[/url]

cover some of this issue, not everything but i think this sermon is a great one about Gods wrath and anger and hatred for sin and sinners.

hi, the real question is do YOU love sinners?jimp

I have to agree with the reply both.

If a sinner is unrepentant, they are treasuring up for themselves wrath in the day of wrath, Rom 2v5.

If repentant, like we have repented from our sins, then God adopts us as his children,
Rom 8v14-17.

How is it possible, scripturally, to destroy the sin without destroying the sinner?

The apostle Paul perhaps?

But somehow, I don't see that as valid. Maybe it is, he was as he says himself, the chief of sinners.

God bless.

jimp wrote:
hi, the real question is do YOU love sinners?jimp

Psalms 139:21,22

21 Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

Did Jesus hate Peter when Peter denied Him? Remember, Peter transgressed the 9th commandment by bearing false witness, claiming he didn't know who Jesus was. Did the Lord hate Him (or love him any less)? Why are so many bent on this "hatred" of God toward sinners; it's almost as if they relish in reminding everyone this, as if they had a personal agenda. There is such a fine line, and one slight shift can find you on the wrong side, grossly misrepresenting God. This is a Biblical concept that has been so twisted and convoluted and man-polluted that it must truly grieve God every time a "hate" scripture is invoked by a tearless pontificator or by a heart that has yet to have a revelation of God's bleeding love for sinners.

I see over and over and over again in scripture how much compassion Jesus had, how gentle and loving and forgiving he was toward adultresses and publicans and thieves. It was the religious hypocrites and the self-righteous who saw themselves right with God and perfect that he had contention with. We really have to be so careful when we deal with the topic of how "God hates sinners" and not be found using it in the wrong spirit.

Hi, tj,
I think that this same topic came up recently in another thread. It certainly is a topic worth considering.

There is a book around called, "When You Hate the Ones you Love". (something like that). That title suggests that it is entirely possible to both love and hate at the same time. In fact, I think you can't have one without the other.

We seem to crave putting concepts into catagories - either/or, but, I fear that in doing that we sever balanced truth, and risk forming partial doctrines, or distorted views of God. That would be my fear of this question.

Consider "judgment" and "mercy". They partner together. Mercy is irrelevent appart from judgmnet; and judgment is mere cruelty apart from mercy.

What also makes your question a challenge is the fact that there is a confused understanding of "love" : It can mean almost anything. I think 'hate' is also a fuzzy word.

I realize that I haven't been much help, but, perhaps the only way to understand God's views of mankind is to study the Bible - without extracting any particular verses - just trying to gain a perception of the wider picture.

O the depths of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!
who has known the mind of the Lord? ..."

Diane

I agree with PaulWest. Here is an article that explains this topic, with scripture references included. http://www.ekklesia4him.net/gospel_according_to_Jesus.html

One of the most important things to remember when reading the Bible is to read the full context. Verses taken out of context lead to all kinds of error.

God bless,
Stella

Why are so many bent on this "hatred" of God toward sinners; it's almost as if they relish in reminding everyone this, as if they had a personal agenda.

Who are you speaking of? I had never heard of God's hatred of sinners until a few weeks ago and have not read about it in any other threads.

I am now only trying to get more of an understanding of the issue.

This is a Biblical concept that has been so twisted and convoluted and man-polluted that it must truly grieve God every time a "hate" scripture is invoked by a tearless pontificator or by a heart that has yet to have a revelation of God's bleeding love for sinners.

It would seem to me that you have ran into many that have abused this "hatred" issue.

I hope you are not lumping me into this category. :-(

I am just trying to learn more about my God.

Do you have anything to say that may help to answer the questions I asked?

Here is an article that explains this topic

I read the article and found nothing in it addressing the scriptures I posted and had questions about.

it must truly grieve God every time a "hate" scripture is invoked by a tearless pontificator or by a heart that has yet to have a revelation of God's bleeding love for sinners.

True, but what has this to do with me and my questions?

How does God feel about it when it is invoked by one that DOES shed many tears and HAS had the revelation of God's bleeding love for sinners?

For this is the category I find myself in.

There are countless things that grieve our Lord, but that is not what I am wanting to talk about here.

I am asking the saints for help in clarifying an issue that is cloudy to me.

Was I wrong to ask this?

True, but what has this to do with me and my questions?

Nothing, brother - this has nothing to do with your question, unfortunately. I apologize for going off on a tangent. I was just musing on the concept of God hating sinners and how it can often be misunderstood and misapplied. Sorry for the confusion, TJ.

I'll try to be more considerate when answering these issues. I forgot that you had a need. You were not wrong to post these concerns, and I'll take the time to read your original concern and pray for wisdom if God allows me to address it.

brother Paul

tjservant wrote:

Here is an article that explains this topic

I read the article and found nothing in it addressing the scriptures I posted and had questions about.

Sorry about that, TJ. But the article actually addresses the whole issue surrounding what we are discussing, so I offered it in the hopes it would shed light on this very important topic. There is a second article, linked to at the end of that one, that goes even further into this fallacy that "God hates sinners."

In answer to your quote from Psalm 5:5, the phrase "workers of iniquity" has a different meaning than what is often assumed. According to the Hebrew, it means "those who exert themselves in vain" or "those who practice nothingness." If you read the couple verses following, it reveals more.

That was also the term Jesus used when He said "depart from me ye that work iniquity," when He told of what His words would be to those who say "Lord, Lord, we did all these things in your name." Matthew 7:21-23

this fallacy that "God hates sinners."

Are there others that believe this is fallacy?

I'm not sure I do. I have read many of the scriptures that fall into this area and it would seem to me there is indeed a hatred.

Just to let you know, I have not only read, "the next couple verses", but the whole chapter...if not the entire book...in the areas I have asked about.

This is a serious subject to me.

Here is my one line answer:

God is angry at the wicked everyday, but has no pleasure in their death.

In other words, God is angry at them but his anger isn't a "wicked" anger. He still desires their highest good- which is that they repent.

God is angry at them but his anger isn't a "wicked" anger. He still desires their highest good- which is that they repent.

Good word, Parsley. God's anger isn't wicked or maliciously spiteful as heathen display in their hatred toward each other (or toward us).

God has no pleasure in the death of sinners. Those who have spent much time in the presence of God with fasting and weeping very soon enter into the heart of how God actually sees perishing sinners. Surprisingly, such who enter into His heart are not overwhelmed by violent feelings of hatred, but rather with waves and burdens and floods of tears and intense grief and pain. It's a trillion times worse than going to a funeral. Unspeakable woe. I tell you that tremendous lamentation and grief and mourning are at the very heart of God for our perishing race, and not wicked, begrudging hatred. Oh, God really does love this perishing world, with all its murderers and drug addicts and thieves and child pornographers. I don't know how, but He does. He is not willing that [i]any one of them[/i] should perish.

PreachParsly wrote:
Here is my one line answer:

God is angry at the wicked everyday, but has no pleasure in their death.

In other words, God is angry at them but his anger isn't a "wicked" anger. He still desires their highest good- which is that they repent.

The question is...Does God hate?

I know he is angry with them. I know it is a righteous anger.

You weren't wrong in bringing this topic up, TJ. I love exploring ALL the qualities of God, even though some people are afraid to talk about them.

In [i]one sense[/i] God loves sinners more than we can possibly imagine, and in [i]another sense[/i] He hates sinners more than we can possibly imagine. But His wrath is suspended right now [i]in love[/i], because He is not willing that any man should perish.

Just like (and this is too simplistic, sorry) in one sense I'm a mother, and in another sense I'm a daughter. Both are 100% true at the same time, without conflicting with each other.

By the way, Psalm 139 says, "Do I not hate those who hate Thee, O Lord?" WE are to have both senses of love and hatred for sinners as well. Of course every time I think about this, I shudder when I think of my own sin. It has a purifying and humbling effect on me.

here is my limited answer.

does God hate sinners?

absolutely 100% YES! but most certainly not with a "sinful" hate that you and i mostly have experienced in our life, We often get confused when we judge Gods person from his actions. An example - God hates, but God is a holy and a Good God, so is it bad when God hates? no, that is a good and holy hatred. We should judge Gods actions from his person. God can not be unrighteous, therefore when God have people killed in the bible we must not judge him from his actions, we must judge his actions from his person.

With you and me it is not so, you judge my person from my actions. But we change day to day...God does not he is always the same.

does he love sinners? yes whit a love so big and wonderful we cant even grasp it,

how can he do both at the same time? honestly i cant bend my mind to understand this. But God hates, God loves. Both with a hatred and a love so great we will never fully understand it this side of eternity,

Just like (and this is too simplistic, sorry) in one sense I'm a mother, and in another sense I'm a daughter. Both are 100% true at the same time, without conflicting with each other.

I like that. :-)

But God hates, God loves. Both with a hatred and a love so great we will never fully understand it this side of eternity,

This list of not fully understanding is growing, but it is well with my soul. :-)

Would suggest we all listen to the sermon that has been suggested by the moderator.

It is about 36 minutes in total and is in 3 parts.

God bless.

I am now only trying to get more of an understanding of the issue.

During the few moments beforehand I caught myself thinking, “I’m so much better than they are…I see the light and they don’t. … I’ve organized far better music than they have… etc.” Suddenly the Spirit convicted me of my rotten heart – it was nothing less than self-exalting pride. There was nothing in those secret thoughts that could be acceptable to God, and so I became accurately conscious of God’s hatred towards me. I deserved nothing less. But in the context of that hatred, God’s love came alive. In fact, all the scriptures surrounding the crucifixion burst into a splendorous display of divine love. Never mind who read them this morning. They are divine.

You see, it is because of God’s relentless love for us that there must always be hatred. His hatred springs from his love. Love begets hatred which begets love. It’s all intertwined, not to be separated. Without divine hatred, the cross would mean nothing more than mushy sentiment.

If we can’t understand God’s hatred towards ourselves personally – that is, towards all that is impure and unholy within us, we will certainly never be able to understand God’s hatred towards anyone else. In fact, trying to do so would be most hypocritical, would it not?

What do you think, tj?

Diane

roadsign wrote:

I am now only trying to get more of an understanding of the issue.

You see, it is because of God’s relentless love for us that there must always be hatred. His hatred springs from his love. Love begets hatred which begets love. It’s all intertwined, not to be separated. Without divine hatred, the cross would mean nothing more than mushy sentiment.

If we can’t understand God’s hatred towards ourselves personally – that is, towards all that is impure and unholy within us, we will certainly never be able to understand God’s hatred towards anyone else. In fact, trying to do so would be most hypocritical, would it not?

What do you think, tj?

Diane

I think that it's simply beautiful...because it's the truth. I type this looking through tears. Thank you.

TJ said:

it's simply beautiful...because it's the truth.

I type this looking through tears.

...the truth shall set you free..."

But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light..." Jn 3:21

Diane

Having seen so many times in the scriptures how much God hates sin, and how God also
hates the sinner, if it weren't for grace through Jesus' righteousness in Christians, I'd be
terrified.

I listened to the Finney teaching on God's Anger, and kept on thinking to myself how
grateful I am to be under grace when I sin, for at least I have time to repent as soon as the
Holy Spirit convicts me of having failed again.

And I know that that same grace will keep me safe at my death or the rapture, if I have
stumbled, and bring a few sins with me to Jesus' feet.

That is why I do not fear God's wrath. I reverance Him, worship and value Him, praise
and thank Him. But I feel no fear.

But no one else does either, and they don't have the excuse of having Jesus' righteousness
covering them!

The topic of the Wrath of God is so avoided in most churches, that, as a Christian, one
would think that everyone in the churches are all believers! Yet we know that to be
untrue!

Does anyone speak of sin anymore, or the result of it in this life, and eternity?

I want to take one example of what the scriptures say about God and sin:

[color=993300]Proverbs 6:16. These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an
abomination unto him:
17. A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18. An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19. A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
[/color]

Yes, God hates sin, and sinners, evidently false witnesses and those that sow discord being
high on God's list of sins He hates.

But He loves the sinners as well, for He sent Christ to die for everyone.

Why does no one says these things in church? Don't the Pastors and Evangelists know that
they will be held responsible for soft soaping these topics?

With their gift for teaching and evangelism, will grace cover them, who do not even try to
win souls, are their hearts so seared that they cannot hear the Holy Spirit rebuking them?

When you hit the Great White Throne Judgement, it will because you did not believe,
because you were not taught why you should believe,

I listened to the Finney teaching on God's Anger, and kept on thinking to myself how grateful I am to be under grace when I sin, for at least I have time to repent as soon as the Holy Spirit convicts me of having failed again.

Amen brother. I also listened...and agree with you very much.

hi,he who loveth not knoweth not God for God IS love.jimp....dennis the menace asked why mrs. wilson gave him cookies even though he was a brat answered wisely by saying that she gave not because i was good but because she was good. only God is good. call no man good...do not get caught up in our right standing with God because it is all of Him and none of us.