613 Laws of the Torah

I was on a message board where a whole bunch of people are saying we as Christians need to follow all 613 laws. They are saying that you are being a disobedient Christian if you do not. Now when Pauls epistles/verses/texts were brought up they said that too many have changed Bible to be anti-jewish.
Now my last post I lost my temper, bringing up the fact that they don't practice stoning people so they are knowingly breaking the law, and called them accursed.
I was wondering if there may be a better more sophisticated way to taking with these folk...or should I just pray that they cut themselves off?

What about James (and the rest of the apostles), was he anti-jewish too?

[b]Act 15:5 \tBut there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 \tAnd the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.[/b]

Act 15:13 \t And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:
Act 15:14 \tSimeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15 \tAnd to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Act 15:16 \tAfter this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17 \tThat the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Act 15:18 \tKnown unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Act 15:19 \tWherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 \tBut that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood.
Act 15:21 \tFor Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Act 15:22 \tThen pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; [namely], Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
Act 15:23 \tAnd they wrote [letters] by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren [send] greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
Act 15:24 \tForasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, [Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [such] commandment:
Act 15:25 \tIt seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Act 15:26 \tMen that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Act 15:27 \tWe have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell [you] the same things by mouth.
Act 15:28 \tFor it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Act 15:29 \tThat ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Greetings...

I don't have time right now to respond, but go to the recent thread The Ark of the Covenant and read the comments there. They deal with this clearly.

"Stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage" (Gal. 5.1).

AD

I hesitate to say this but I took 5 semesters of classes on the 613 Laws of the Old Testament and can tell you without question that keeing those laws is not only in contrast to the New Covenant, it is impossible- even for practicing Jews.

I was wondering if there may be a better more sophisticated way to taking with these folk..

Note that Jesus never argued with the people or tried to reason with them. Instead he went directly for their conscience by using simple little events or stories to let THEM see that they were violating the law they so dearly cherished. Those were always little mercy drops: opportunities for them to admit their need for Christ’s sweet salvation.

You also said:

...or should I just pray that they cut themselves off?

“I wish those who unsettle and confuse you would [go all the way and] cut themselves off!” A(Gal. 5:12): Ampified

in other words:
“As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves! NIV

Well, maybe Paul never suggested it directly to the legalizes. At any rate, keep full of the joy of the Spirit, and don’t let them agitate you! (That’s the least effective way to touch their consciences.) Remember how Jesus solved the problem: he loved them and died for them. What is God asking of you?

Diane

5In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron. 6Both of them were upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commandments and regulations blamelessly.

You will recall that the Temple existed at that time. All laws related to the Temple are impossible to keep. This is why many have adopted alternate ways to 'keep' those laws. They have developed a system of halakah to keep the Law relevant to the Jews.

Hi everyone.

Sscott,

"5In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah..."

Have noticed this too before. But then look at this statement Paul makes of himself in Philippians...

"Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless."

Just something to consider.

Chris

ChrisJD wrote:

"5In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah..."

Have noticed this too before. But then look at this statement Paul makes of himself in Philippians...

"Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless."

Just something to consider.

Chris

...Well, yes, Paul was blameless concerning the righteousness of the law, and so was Zechariah, because when they sinned they were no doubt diligent to offer the sin offering the Law provided. And in so doing they were keeping the righteousness of the law.

But now what are people going to do who inevitably break one of these 613 laws of the Torah they are so sure God is enjoining upon them? Offer a bullock or a goat? But these can never take away sin (Heb. 10.4). They were ordained only in the forbearance of God till the True Sacrifice should come on the scene to TOTALLY REMOVE SIN from the hearts of the sanctified (of those who come unto God BY HIM).

AD

I think Robert is saying, "Today there is no temple, so you cannot keep the 'laws' pertaining to the temple."

It's like trying to play basketball without a goal or a ball.

Yea.. Paul says the same thing about himself as the scriptures say about Zecharias.

Are we to deduce from this that both Paul and Zecharias were sinless?

: They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (Romans 3:12)

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. (I Timothy 1:15)

Love God Love Love Jesus Love the Spirit Love others.

Live out your faith.

This is the answer to all questions.

No, they were not sinless; they were merely circumspect to offer what the law prescribed for a sin offering. And in doing so they were then "blameless" as far as the righteousness of the law was concerned, as far as what the Law said was the right thing to do.

These sacrifices, however, while they kept a man in good standing with God as far as the Law was concerned, could not make a man "perfect as pertaining to the conscience" (Heb. 9.9). It would take the bringing in of a New, a BETTER Covenant, to do this.

Now, Christians who are into keeping the Torah are very quick to say they don't mean keeping the sacrifices of the Law. God forbid. They still want the comfort of the Blood of Christ when they sin. But by seeking to be justified by the Law they ARE in fact distancing themselves from the provision of the Cross, and from the Blood of Christ. "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you who are justified by the law: ye are fallen from grace" (Gal. 5.4).

AD

No. I never said they were sinless but that they kept the law blamelessly which is what the scriptures say.

I don't think we have ever talked about this in the forums, but it would be an interesting study, I think. Paul also said that he lived in all good conscience before God and man until 'this day'. I have often wondered what he meant by that. I think what he means is that he kept his conscience clear. If something was questionable he dealt with it. Another thing he says is that he kept his conscience 'void of offense.' This means also that he did not live in such a way that would lead others to stumble which is in keeping with the end of Romans.

The other word for blameless means unable to find fault. I wonder if the tense here is present. A 'here and now' blamelessness as opposed to a continual sinless perfection ( a perfect past).

I wonder if the tense here is present. A 'here and now' blamelessness as opposed to a continual sinless perfection ( a perfect past)

I'm not exactly sure which verse you were wondering about...

www.zhubert.com is a great site. You type the reference over on the left and it will give it to you in Greek (that is if you don't change the bible) and you move your mouse over the word and it will give you some info about it.

Hi Preach,

Luke 1:6 for starters. The word in question is 'blameless'.

ADisciple,

"No, they were not sinless; they were merely circumspect to offer what the law prescribed for a sin offering. And in doing so they were then "blameless" as far as the righteousness of the law was concerned, as far as what the Law said was the right thing to do."

I was thinking this was what might have been meant by their being blameless also. But I think when we see something like that, [b]blameless[/b], we think sinless, in the same sense of when we wonder if it is possible to [b]keep the commandments[/b], we may be thinking sinless also. Know what I mean?

Chris

Chris,
Yes, I think that is the correct view. Paul, Zechariah, other zealous men, were "blameless" as far as the Law went because they kept the provisions of the Law for those who broke the Law.

However, the righteousness of the Law had no (and still has no) power to make a man truly righteous by very nature. This is why Paul in Phillipians called all his "credits" no more than "dung, that I might win Christ, and be found in Him not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith..."

AD

… the righteousness of the Law had no (and still has no) power to make a man truly righteous by very nature.

Provost, check to see if these people have other laws: ex church policy manuals, dress codes, behavior codes, music rules, church attendance rules, a host of guidelines for this and that, including unwritten codes(rules everyone just assumes) – maybe unspoken codes that they are not even aware of: ex: never get angry, always smile, always be nice, never question the pastor, don’t buy newspapers on Sundays, etc…

How do they deal with the stoning laws of the Torah, or the eye-for-an eye law? How do they treat law-breakers?

Living by law leaves no room for mercy, forgiveness, or tolerance towards those who experience faiures, brokenness, etc. So law-abiders don’t tend to notice when they violate the law of love – like when they are harsh towards one another or condemning. Provost, do you notice that among the posters? Those are “aha” signs of the failure of the law. The law can’t change the heart.

Diane

Diane,

"This is why those who live by the law must keep on adding more laws - to control the symptoms of unrighteousness that keep popping up."

Reminded me of Romans 7:8

[i]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence... [/i]

The RSV has it this way

"But sin, finding opportunity in the commandment, wrought in me all kinds of covetousness. Apart from the law sin lies dead."

The Simple English puts it

"Sin took the chance to use the command to make me want all kinds of things which didn't belong to me, because without law, sin is dead."

Chris

Prov. 13:6 \tRighteousness guards him whose way is blameless,
\tBut wickedness overthrows the sinner.

There were many who were blameless, who lived during the time where the covenant of Mount Sinai was in place.

Psa. 119:1 \tBlessed are the undefiled in the way,
\tWho walk in the law of the LORD!
2 \tBlessed are those who keep His testimonies,
\tWho seek Him with the whole heart!
3 \tThey also do no iniquity;
\tThey walk in His ways.

Who are these that are undefiled?

Psalm 51

16 \tFor You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
\tYou do not delight in burnt offering.
17 \tThe sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
\tA broken and a contrite heart—
\tThese, O God, You will not despise.

What is David talking about here?

Jer. 6:20 \tFor what purpose to Me
\tComes frankincense from Sheba,
\tAnd sweet cane from a far country?
\tYour burnt offerings are not acceptable,
\tNor your sacrifices sweet to Me.”

In comparing what David said and now what is written on Jeremiah above, what is the difference?

In Christ
Jeff

what is the difference?

Before we will ask this question we have to realize that there is, in fact, a difference.

The recent shooting in a Virginia college of 31+ students blatantly exposes the futility of man’s reliance on laws. I noticed that a teacher, a holocaust survivor himself was murdered on Holocaust Memorial Day - trying to protect his students. This begs the question: Is there something that we are to remember this day? I believe that it is humanity’s total inability to keep itself from turning barbaric, no matter how many laws are added in order to prevent “this” (whatever that may be) from ever happening again.

And yet, our society never "gets it". Just watch now and see how many MORE laws will be added to the already thousands of legal laws. However, the laws will merely restrict all of us yet some more. They restrict us from being free to love God and mankind as God has called us to. And they won’t change the hearts and consciences, that is, fix what's been broken. They won’t prevent the formation of future “gun-men”.

Our society has no plans to be broken and contrite. And yet, that is the only path towards a new and clean conscience: through the forgiveness of Christ, and the application of his love in our society. iT is not about 613 laws. But sadly so many Christians are paralyzed by their obsession with laws, while missing the greatest commandment entirely.

We as followers of Christ have something wonderful to offer, and it may cost us our lives, just like it did for that professor who was shot.

However, offering 613 laws (or any number) to the folk on the street, in our churches, to our friends and relatives is as calloused as offering a truckload of sand to a thirsty person.

Diane

Provost, check to see if these people have other laws: ex church policy manuals, dress codes, behavior codes, music rules, church attendance rules, a host of guidelines for this and that, including unwritten codes(rules everyone just assumes) – maybe unspoken codes that they are not even aware of: ex: never get angry, always smile, always be nice, never question the pastor, don’t buy newspapers on Sundays, etc…

How do they deal with the stoning laws of the Torah, or the eye-for-an eye law? How do they treat law-breakers? --quoted from Diane

First off they are obiously very legalistic. Also there was not reply when I brought up the stoning issue. I brought it up numerous times...no response. Also the main talker went on the rant about how only Christians that are "close to Gods heart" follow the law, the others may be saved but they are living in disobedience. And the Holy Spirit told him this and said do that...very subjective cult language.

Here was my last post(I am since taking a vacation from that forum :-) )
Hey Troy and the rest of you accursed dogs

Galatians 5:3I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. 4You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. 5For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

Read Verses 3 and 4
Now start stoning apostates or you are condemned! Troy you said you don't stone people anymore...you are knowingly practicing sin and you are accursed

Philippians 3:2Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. 3For we are the real circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh--

You are dogs and evildoers condemned by your own words.

Hebrews 10:1For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities

Again all you have is a shadow. A shadow will not save you. I know you are saying that you are being obedient that you are saved by faith. But your words are justifying where your faith is. Your faith is in your works, and what you are doing. If your faith is not lying solely in Christ woe is you!

I would ask that you stop posting on this site. You are obviously Cult-driven (the first sign of a cult is an "us" verses "them" mentality, and you accursed evildoers definitely have that) idol worshipers who need to repent, let go of your shadow, and gaze upon the realities of Christ who fulfilled the Law. By the way when something is fulfilled what does that mean? Like when a prophecy is fulfilled what does that mean? That it took place, it's finished, done, no longer a mystery but a completed revelation! So if Jesus fulfilled the Law we are done with the practicing of the Law. IF we still have to follow the law then we are waiting for a greater than Christ.

God bless all

Peace sermon index crew and God Bless

I think it is right to say that because of man's sinful nature, being under the spirit of disobedience (Eph 2), John 3:3 is the only solution to man's problem. God has implemented many ways of keeping man's sinfulness hemmed in and under some restraint. These were never 'solutions' they were only temporary expedients. This is why we see the word 'until' concerning the Law. God did a lot of things 'until' the next step in His plan was to play out.

He started by multiplying pain in childbearing. This may not mean much now, but it was a serious issue before the advent of modern pain management.

Man was working with a 'cursed' ground. That is, the earth was placed in a state of [i]inutility[/i]. It did not yield like it used to and had to be worked and cultivated and kept in a way that was labor intensive. "In the sweat of thy face...," etc. This forced man to redeem the time for mere survival.

Yet we find in Genesis 6 that it was not long and still the thoughts of man became only evil continually. This is wickedness without mixture. What was causing this? No doubt it was man's sin nature. Sin had entered (Romans 5) and made man by nature children of wrath (Eph 2). That nature could only be restrained until Pentecost.

So the earth was filled with violence and the people corrupted their way upon the earth. At this point God implemented the death penalty for murder.

Wickedness unloaded again in the hearts of men and they sought to build a Tower to heaven. Nothing shall be restrained that they have imagined to do. God made man upright but they sought out many inventions. They were spiritually dead (EPh 2) and could only be hemmed in and managed. So God counfounded the languages. This has largely been undone today and we have seen a great increase in the proliferation of evil. The Internet is greatly responsible for undoing what God did at Babel.

Then from God's right hand there went forth a firey Law unto a people planted in the earth to be a light to those who lived in wickedness. He gave that law because He loved the people. Again- it could only restrain evil and point the way to to Christ. It was a Spiritual law- but men are carnal and sold under Sin. Their carnal minds were at enmity with God and they could not be brought under the Law- though it was a Spiritual Law.

God sent prophets and judgments upon the people over and over to get them to reconsider their ways. Even Israel that were trusted with the Law ultimately failed to rightly represent God. But when the fulness of times were come God sent forth His Son born of a woman and under the Law.

At the Cross we find man's full capability unleashed. The furnaces of the Holocaust and the tragedy in VA Tech are but a sample of man unrestrained. In Luke 22 Jesus told the people- but this is your hour and the power of darkness. Infinite Good came face to face with unrestrained Evil and we see the greatest picture of what man is capable of. When given opportunity- they sought to kill God. This was Satan's ambition- to supplant God. Man tried to carry that out. The contrast between wickedness and goodness cannot be greater. Here was man expressing himself in his unrestrained evil and God in His unrivaled grace and mercy. Selah.

There were many teachers in Israel in John 3 that did not know why man needed to be born again. they saw man as essentially good and just needing to repent and come under the Law. But Jesus had a different diagnosis. Ye MUST be born again He said. Regeneration is what man needs. Man needs rid of the Spirit of disobedience and the heart of stone within. Man needs the Holy Spirit to come that he might be baptized into Christ that they might share in all the riches of Christ. He died to Sin and in Him we have been co-crucified with Him. He rose again in power and 'in' Him we share in that resurrection.

Indeed man needs more than 10 steps to freedom or A.A. or a host of other self-help programs. Man is shot through with depravity and need to be born from above. they need God working in them to will and do HIS good pleasure. They need a nature that longs to please God rather than be His enemy. This is regeneration. This is the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Spirit that God has shed upon those who are in Christ. This is more than repentance and it is more than faith. It is responding rightly to God when He is drawing and surrendering ourselves to Him doing whatsoever He asks of us then- and from that point on.

RobertW wrote:
Hi Preach,

Luke 1:6 for starters. The word in question is 'blameless'.

[url=http://www.zhubert.com/bible?source=greek&book=Luke&chapter=1&verse=6&endbook=Luke&endchapter=1&endverse=6&none=none&altsource=kjv&altbook=Luke&altchapter=1&altverse=6&altsources=&altbooks=&altchapters=&altverses=]In that verse blameless is describing 'how' they were walking. Walking is in the present tense.[/url] You can click that link to examine each word, just move your mouse over the word and it will tell you a short definition and the tense, case, ect. It also has the KJV to the right so you can compare.

I don't have any bible software on this computer to do any "heavy duty" studying. I have a few websites I've searched around on though. There are a whole group of words that are translated "blameless" and all of them are adverbs or adjectives that I found. Which means they are describing something else. You can always look at the verb to see in what manner or tense he/she was blameless.

Brother Robert wrote:

I think it is right to say that because of man's sinful nature, being under the spirit of disobedience (Eph 2), John 3:3 is the only solution to man's problem. God has implemented many ways of keeping man's sinfulness hemmed in and under some restraint. These were never 'solutions' they were only temporary expedients. This is why we see the word 'until' concerning the Law. God did a lot of things 'until' the next step in His plan was to play out.

This idea of sin nature and disobedience keeps coming up doesn't it...

Looking into what Pau is teaching in Ephesians 2...

1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Here we see that all "walked" according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience.

What does it mean that man walks according to the spiritual influence of Satan?

Likewise we learn that others also "walked" blameless...

Luke 1:
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Now look to what Paul teaches about the remnant saved by grace and not of works...

Romans 11:

4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

Notice carefully Paul's point that those God saved by grace..."were those "who have not bowed the knee to Baal."

This sin nature we speak of seems to be centered on which spirit we follow.

What do you think?

In Christ
Jeff

RobertW wrote:

5In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron. 6Both of them were upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commandments and regulations blamelessly.

You will recall that the Temple existed at that time. All laws related to the Temple are impossible to keep. This is why many have adopted alternate ways to 'keep' those laws. They have developed a system of halakah to keep the Law relevant to the Jews.

Robert,

What do they do now, now that there are no sacrifices? Mitzvahs?

I know that many of the Jews are very non-believing, but that is their habit, after all, and ours as well.

But without the temple, what do they do now?

Blessings,

Our society has no plans to be broken and contrite. And yet, that is the only path towards a new and clean conscience: through the forgiveness of Christ, and the application of his love in our society. iT is not about 613 laws. But sadly so many Christians are paralyzed by their obsession with laws, while missing the greatest commandment entirely.

Amen to that it is well said.For us christians what counts is faith that works by love.There is a law we have to observe and that is the law of the Spirit that sets us free for the law of sin and death.Christ is the fullfillment of all righteousness required by the law of Moses.

We are not called to keep the 613 mosaic laws but on the other side we need to watch against antinomianism. The 2 greatest commandments : love the Lord with all your heart..... and love your neighbour as yourself is the sum of all the law of Moses and this is the essense of the moral law that we need to observe and obey.

Here was my last post(I am since taking a vacation from that forum )
Hey Troy and the rest of you accursed dogs

Anyway, I understand your exasperation, and would certainly have felt like throwing a few hand grenades into that "nest" - to awaken the dead. (Of course only the Spirit can do that)

I've heard it said, “No experience is a waste.” May that forum experience draw you to crave a life filled with the Spirit, ruled by the law of the Spirit.

What is the fruit of that kind of life? (See Gal. 5:22)

Diane

What do they do now, now that there are no sacrifices? Mitzvahs?

I know that many of the Jews are very non-believing, but that is their habit, after all, and ours as well.

But without the temple, what do they do now?

Blessings,

Sorry I missed this question. Practicing Jews generally substitute what are known as "acts of Tzedekah" for the sacrifices. These are acts of charity. There are several levels of tzedekah or 'charity'. Jews even believe in giving to those who [u]don't[/u] have needs. This, in some of their minds, is giving much in the same way as God who gives to all irrespective of rich or poor, etc. Giving anonomously is the second highest level. So on and so forth.

Sukkah 49b
R. Eleazar stated, Greater is he who performs tzedakah than [he who offers] all the sacrifices, for it is said, To do tzedakah (the root means justice) and justice is more acceptable to the Lord than sacrifice.

There is also a reference to Hosea 6:6. God desires mercy and not sacrifice. The RSV translates the word for 'mercy' as [i]steadfast love[/i]. It is sad that as God removed the sacrificial system that many of the Jews did not see John 3:16 in all this.

The word 'korban' or sacrifice comes froma a root meaning "to draw near." When you combine these concepts you can see that the idea is drawing near to God by doing charitable acts. This is why you might be walking down a Jewish neighborhood and be welcomed into the home, etc. for dinner. The attitude is one of showing charity to strangers even. It is deeply rooted in their expression of faith. But we are not drawn near to God by works of righteousness which we have done, but by His mercy He has saved us; by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost.

Rookie's: What does it mean that man walks according to the spiritual influence of Satan?

I think it is a direct parallel (but the opposite of) )to walking in the Spirit. Folk are either walking in the Holy Spirit or they are walking in the spirit of disobedience which is essentially the spirit of antichrist or the devil. A person has to have a new spirit put within them. They simply cannot by good deeds reform themselves. Repentance is not regeneration- it is a step towards it. Regeneration is the process by which God takes man back to the Garden as an exact representation of that unfallen Adam. The world around us is fallen and our bodies are still subject to decay, etc.; but we are new creatures if we are in Christ. This is a divine miracle of God in our transformation. This is John 3:3. We part company with the old man and the carnal mind and are renewed in the spirit of our mind. This is a new creation. This is" I make all things new."

Brother Robert wrote:

I think it is a direct parallel (but the opposite of) )to walking in the Spirit. Folk are either walking in the Holy Spirit or they are walking in the spirit of disobedience which is essentially the spirit of antichrist or the devil.

When Scripture speaks that fallen man would know both good and evil, do you think that this speaks to the influence of the Holy Spirit (good), and the influence of the spirit of Satan (evil)?

Repentance is not regeneration- it is a step towards it. Regeneration is the process by which God takes man back to the Garden as an exact representation of that unfallen Adam. The world around us is fallen and our bodies are still subject to decay, etc.; but we are new creatures if we are in Christ. This is a divine miracle of God in our transformation. This is John 3:3. We part company with the old man and the carnal mind and are renewed in the spirit of our mind. This is a new creation. This is" I make all things new."

We know that in addition to the 613 laws given on Mount Sinai, God also provided His Holy Spirit. How do you suppose this influence in men like David, Ezekiel, and Jeremiah enabled them to live righteous lives?

In Christ
Jeff